Morbid - “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Weirdos!! It’s our third SPECIAL BONUS EPISODE brought to YOU by our friends at Audible!Today we’re joined by a member of the PodFam, Spencer Henry from Cult Liter, Obitchuary & Gossip's Bridle! Join us while we chat about Jim Clemente & Peter McDonnell “Blue Beard”! Join the “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club" AND the conversation as we talk about the Title that dramatizes true events in a radio style drama! Hear about the productions origins, as well as the immense effort put into creating such an immersive experience. Haven’t listened yet? Don’t worry about it, friend! Go to Audible.com/weirdos for YOUR free trial! And don’t forget to click the episode post on Instagram to comment YOUR favorite aspects of the production, and discuss with other Weirdos who enjoyed the title, as well! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. It's a very special morbid because it's Ash's birthday. It's a birthday morbid. Birthday morbid. Birthday morbid. Yeah, she's recording on her birthday. I am indeed. She loves you so much. I love you. I want to celebrate with you. And you know, there ain't no rust for the wicked. There isn't. And you know what? What better way to spend your birthday then with all of your closest friends. That's exactly how I feel. There you go. That's exactly how I feel at Lizzo. There you go. At Lizzo. Lizzo is one of your closest friends, I would say. I mean, if she doesn't know it, but I wish she did. If Lizzo recognized my existence, I don't think my insides would ever stop just flopping around. Yeah. I mean, because already with

JVM, I'm on a carnival ride. I'm on a constant carnival ride. They posted on Instagram stories about like listening and how we mentioned them. Oh. Died. I died. I died. The amount of people that texted me and were like, what the fuck? And I was like, guys, I'm like, I'm floating on a cloud.

I can't. Legit. You know that ride like zero gravity? Yeah. That's how I feel. That's, yeah. Like no gravity. So once again, love you, Jonathan.

Love you. And also love you, Lizzo. Love you so much, Lizzo. Please recognize my existence. Okay. Please recognize my existence. It is my birthday. We got to make that happen.

We really do. Girl, I don't even know if I could handle that. It's my mission in life. The club wouldn't be able to handle me right now. The club already can't handle you. No, I've reached the age where I can't handle the club. Oh yeah, I've been at that age for like over a decade. To be honest with you, I actually don't know the last time I went to a club, but it's many moons ago.

It's probably for the best. 100%. To be honest. I don't need anybody grinding all up on me. No way. Get away from me. You're almost a married woman. Oh my gosh, I know. Life has changed. You're an engaged woman. I know. Look at that. I have the best fiancee. You do. I love. Drew is like, I know. I just have to shout him out really quickly because he took me to my favorite restaurant last night in Boston and like planned the whole thing. He said that he had that plan for a month.

Yeah, he's been like, yeah, he knew what he was doing. He's cook a, cuckoo killin it. He really is. Well, you know what? What better thing to talk? about on Ash's birthday than a murder in Salem. I mean, feels right. It feels perfect. It fits like a glove. It really does. We're going to be talking about surprisingly an old-timey murder. Wait, do you like those? Do you ever study those? Sometimes every once in a while. Wild. This is the murder of Captain Joseph White by the Knapp Brothers in 1830. Oh, is it like a distant cousin of your family? I wonder. Maybe.

I kind of hope not, to be quite honest. Once we get into it, I'm like, yeah. I don't claim that. There's a lot of those. So I feel like I'm like, no, no, no, no. We're not anywhere near him. Well, this happened in 1830 Salem, Massachusetts. Love it.

One of my favorite places on planet Earth. Duh. If not my favorite place, I will say. I was going to say, I think that is your favorite place. I think it might be. We're going to be talking about 82-year-old. Captain Joseph White, who was a retired and extremely wealthy merchant living in a fancy-ass-home in Salem, Massachusetts, at 128 Essex Street, which is a very like, everyone knows Essex Street. They sure do.

His home was actually referred to as the most impressive home in Salem at the time. Oh, shit. Yeah, I think the youths would call him a baller. Do they still say that? I don't know. I think they would say, no cap. this guy slaps. Whoa. Yeah. That got great. So baller is like not a thing anymore. I don't know. I don't know. Youths, let us know. I only have one youth friend. Yeah. And I, you're my youth friend. So. Well, I think I'm aging out of the youth.

Exactly. Youth of it all. So see, I'm behind on my chair. Kayle, what would they say? That's my youth friend. There you go. Kaylee, tell us, is baller cool still? I don't know. I call him a baller. He seems like a baller, but he's also like a dick. Is he a shot caller? There you go. There you go. Bringing it to a place of old. I was going to say, we're bringing it relevant. We're bringing it more and more relevant here.

So he was a widower and he had no children. It's also said that he, and here's where my whole thing of like, I don't want to be associated with him is. He had ties to the slave trade. Oh, no, we do not claim him. Yep. He owned and supplied ships bringing slaves from Africa to Boston. So like, you're.

You're not my family. No. I'm 100% sure he's not. We've actually done genealogy, so he's not in there. I don't have anybody in Salem. Oh, yeah. That's surprising. Well, I should say I don't have anybody on my, like, married side.

Yeah. My side, I don't know. Like my actuals, like, maiden name. I don't know. Right, right. You know how it goes. You know what names are, you know? Names are hard.

Yeah. But I kind of hope I have someone in Salem on my side. I bet you would. You give off witch vibes. Right. There's got to be someone. That wasn't me calling you a bitch. No, I appreciate it.

That's literally never, never an insult. So don't worry. Either way, you're like bringing on. No matter what I took that as a compliment, so you didn't even have to. Now, what's interesting is that, you know, owning humans was abolished in Massachusetts in 1783. This was in 1830 and Captain White didn't give a shit. Oh, fuck this guy. Yeah.

In fact, he told a minister in Salem, are you ready for this? I'm not. He told a minister in Salem, William Bentley was the minister's name. He said, quote, he had no reluctance in selling any part of the human race. I am leaving. Any part. I'm going to take a ride on a big jet plane and I'm out of here. Yeah.

1830, man. That's disgusting. Wow. Like, truly, it's hard to think of a more vile statement. It really is. Yeah, that's a wretched human. I have no reluctance in selling. any part of the human race. It's like, oh, oh, you have zero. And also like your boundaries.

You're strangely enough part of the human race. I was going to say you are like, I'm reluctant to say that you are part of it. But like, sell yourself, man. Yeah. Woff. Down the river. It's a lot. So he lived with his niece, Mary Beckford, who was also his housekeeper. Okay. Yeah. I love that he's just like employing his family. Yeah. Right. Like, it's just okay. And then there was another somebody who they called a domestic servant named Lydia Kimball. And then a man Benjamin White, who was also related to White, but like kind of distantly and also worked as his man servant. Man servant. So he had a lot of family members that just like worked for him and he paid probably shit.

Now, Mary Beckford had a daughter, Mary as well, who had once lived in the home and she had moved out because she married a dude named Joseph. Jay Nap Jr. And she now lived with him in Wetham, Massachusetts. Wentham? Yeah. Oh. You're like, what? I was like, do you mean Rentham?

No, I do not. Wentham, Massachusetts. Nap had ran a ship called Caroline that White owned at one point. So there's like a whole connection with everybody. So he knows Nap. Knapp. Knapp had to do with ships and all that. He's a ship guy.

Okay. So the Knapp family consisted of the father, Joseph Knapp, Sr. and he had sons Joseph Knapp Jr. And Nathaniel Fippin Knapp and John Francis Knapp, otherwise called Joe Fippin and Frank. Joe Fippin, Frank. Exactly. This family was also really well known around town.

They were very wealthy, very respected. Joseph Knapp Sr. had done a lot of business with Captain White. And the family home was close by to his mansion on Essex Street. So there's like a connection here. Now Joe, one of the Napp, Joe was a sea guy, a seaman. He did sea things, you know. Navies, water, swim.

Yep, lots of wet business, I suppose. It's getting weird. But Frank got acquainted with two petty thieves from a prominent family. Their names were Richard and George Crown and Shield, and he did this in his teen years. He became friends with them. And so, like, he was, like, not in a great way at this. He's like veering down about it. Joe's out in the sea.

Frank is hanging out with these two petty thieves, Richard and George Crown and Shield. And then Fippin went to Harvard and had just been admitted to the bar. Wow. So they got a whole lot of everything, those parents. Yeah, I was going to say, they got like the real, like, variety pack of kids. Like, that's a perfect way to describe that. Truly the variety pack. Like, they were like, we have a petty thief.

We have a seaman. And we have a Harvard guy. We have Uts. Yeah. We have Frito. and we have lace. Exactly. Free toes.

You know, I love to pronounce a T. We have a frito over here. Would you like a frito? Would you like a free toe? Sounds like would you like my, like a free toe? Dead Med's Toe. A dead man's toe. Now, in the winter of 1829 to 1830,

Captain Joseph White was feeling ill. Good. He wasn't feeling great. I'm glad. And he had his lawyer, Joseph Waters, draft him a new will. Because he's like, I'm getting old, not feeling great. Yeah, you said he was. was 83. He's pretty old. Yeah. That's a lot. And he's, and now he's ill. So it's like, oh, okay,

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So even if they were family, he was shitty to them. Like, he was shitty to everybody. He was like an equal opportunity offender. Yeah. The only person who escaped his bullshit behavior was his grandniece Mary. Okay. And we mentioned earlier, who happened to also be very young and very attractive. But she's his grand niece.

Thank you. In fact, thank you. In fact, he was pissed when he was. when he found out about her engagement to Joseph Knapp. Not only are you her great uncle, you're literally on your deathbed. Yep. Now, why was he pissed about that? Like, Joe's a seaman.

Yeah. He's doing sea things. Captain White is a sea guy. And you said the Naps worked for the whites. Exactly. Like, they've all been connected. And Joe's not the petty thief. Yeah, he's not frank.

The hard work. His hands are dirty. His hands are dirty. He's got calluses. Like, he's out there. He's a working man. Why is he pissed? And he loves the sea.

Well, he was mad because Mary and her grand uncle, Captain Joseph White, were having an affair in the hopes of producing an heir to leave his fortune to. Oh, that is so backwards. I mean, we all have family quirks, but this is like bordering on hills have eyes territory now. It's not bordering. It's there. It's wrong turn. There are some flowers in your attic.

Yeah, there's a lot of flowers in your attic, and we have taken a wrong turn. And the hills do have eyes. There's a lot of it. I'm like, what other gross? What other disgusting thing can we think of? Ew. Yeah. So on April 5th, 1830, Mrs. Beckford went to Wenham.

This is Mary Beckford. She went to Wenham to spend a few days with her daughter. Okay. Now, on April 7th, 1830 at 6 a.m., it was Captain White's manservant, Benjamin White, who woke up first. That's just never going to be funny. I have to be a man servant. That's what he is. Yeah.

That's what you want. That's what you are? You're going to call that. My man-servant. Now, he started doing his manservant business around the home. And when he looked out the kitchen window briefly, he noticed that the back window on the first floor was wide open. Okay.

And he was like, huh. Because he also noticed that a wood plank was leaned against it leading up to the window. And he immediately was like, that's weird. That's fishy. Because, again, he's a man-servant. And man-servants don't miss a trick. Of course not. They don't miss a trick.

man servants. They're nimble and quick. So he started thinking in that man servant brain of his. Stop saying it. And he's like, there's a shit ton of valuables in this home. I should find out what just happened here. Like, that doesn't look right. We don't leave shit like that. He's an OG, OG simply safe. He is. He's like, boop, something's like, boop. Something's wrong. Yeah. So he let the maid Lydia Kimball know about it and they decided to go check on the old asshole together. Okay. Yeah. So they walk into his bedroom and, uh-oh. His bedroom doors open. Oh, no.

And that's not happening ever. No. At this point, I would have just run the hell away. I would have been like, well, it's been real. He sucked anyway. Now, I'd be like, that is not normal. So they immediately saw blood saturated the bed and Captain White's bed clothes. Oh, damn.

The old man lay on his right side at a diagonal angle across the bed, and he had deep wounds in his left temple. Oh, in his left temple? Yep. Further inspection proved that there were also many wounds. near his heart and underarms, like stab wounds. Was he stabbed in the temples? Well, we'll see.

Now, none of his valuables were touched, including a chest filled with gold de blooms. What's a de blooms? It's like what pirates take. Oh, like gold de blooms. Yeah, like just a big old chest of like gold coins. Like treasure. Like literal treasure. Okay.

Well, that's straight up treasure. Now, they didn't really, you know, they were like, we don't really need to try CPR because, like, he's cold and very dead. Like, that is very clear. And even if he wasn't cold and very dead, he's kind of a dick. Yeah, it's like, ugh. So he, uh, his temple was crushed and the skull beneath it was fractured by a seriously savage blow to the head. He also had 13 stab wounds around his heart and under his left arm, inflicted by a very long dagger. Ow.

Yeah. I feel like, are they immediately like, witch? Which. They probably were. They probably had like 18 names already like just ready to rattle off. Women that like have rejected them. Women who didn't, you know, looked at them a wrong way. Your neighbor who didn't lend you any sugar. Yeah, a neighbor who showed her ankle when she shouldn't have. Get your ankles away from me. Get your fucking ankles in. Yeah. They were ready to start just blazing this place down. I mean, I guess at this point it was like the 1800s. I was getting far past that, but we're like a little past that. But not totally.

We're like only a couple hundred years past you. It's true. But, you know, we are in Salem at this point. And this guy owns slaves. Yeah, he does. So Benjamin, his man servant, did what any of us here would do next. He turned to Lydia and he said, quote, Captain White has gone to the eternal world. I always say that.

If I find somebody dead in their bed, I would be like, yep, eternal world. That's what's happened. Eternal world. Again, I would run very far away and then maybe say that. that from like a good distance but i'm out of there i don't know if this guy's still in here that's what i was going to say he could still be lurking yeah he's waiting for you to do your flowery poetic like statement of death and then he's going to murder you so he then said he would go to the neighbors to get help so he was like lydia i'm going to go get some help here okay lizzie so he went screaming out into the street and

summoned dr samuel johnson he came he confirmed this guy who was laying in a pool of blood with his skull crushed was indeed dead. What a great dog. Yeah, he was like, I got this, guys. He also determined that he had likely died three to four hours before this. Okay. Now, along with the doctor, William Ward, the Captain White's clerk and business assistant came as well. So there's a lot of people coming and just being like, oh, look, he's dead.

So William Ward checked out the window. He was like, what, how did they get in? What happened here? So he notices that there's muddy footprints under it. And he was like, probably the culprits. I would think so. Wow, great detective work. Now, this is crazy.

Plaster casts were starting to be used by forensic scientists by 1830. Oh, shit. Yeah. So Ward was quick thinking, and he placed a milk pan over the prince to protect them from the, because there was like light rain coming down. And he didn't want them to be messed up. So he put a milk pan over them so that they wouldn't get fucked up. Wow. ahead of his time. Now, that's all well and fine, but unfortunately no one took a cast of these prints.

So he saved them for not. Wow. He must have been like, I'll just go fuck myself. Yeah, pretty much. He's like, wow, I'm quick thinking here. And none of you are. And none of you are doing anything about it. Capricorn energy. So true. So true. Now, let's get to autopsy time, shall we? Well, we were just talking about copacons. Copacons. The copcoles. Copcone. Autopsy time. So Dr. Johnson, performed an autopsy in front of a, what is called, quote, a coroner's jury, which is a jury of locals. They're just like pulling people out of pubs and shit. Okay.

Who were basically there to assess the facts of the case and determine whether a crime had indeed taken place. We have mentioned these in other cases before in these time periods. Very strange. We just grab people out of pubs. We have them come. Right. The autopsy is done.

And they just go, sure. sounds good to me. Or not. I just love that they have like no expert or like, well, they might have like some expertise, but like not in this particular field. And they're like, hey, Jim. Yeah. Finish your pint.

Sure. Absolutely. Go ahead. Oh, yeah. But then we're going to have to have you come down. We need you. Thanks. We need you local.

And it's like any expertise that is happening here is purely by accident. Yeah. Like totally by accident. I'm a baker. Yeah. Jim's like I, you know, I make little tea coesies for a living. What is? Oh, a tea coesies.

Is that like a little more cozy for your for your tea? Like a cozy. Yeah, like a tea cozy is like a yeah, it's a thing. Cozy, cozy. Yeah, like a coozy would be like, you know, the foamy kind of material I would think. But I would think that Jim crochets tea cozies. He must. Yeah, that's how I see it at least.

Okay. Or he makes those little, the little pot holder things that look like dicks. There you go. I've ever seen those? Yes, I have. Blal. Wow, we've smeared this fictional Jim's entire career. Jim's like, I'm a farmer.

Fictional Jim is like, damn, all right, I provide the, I provide food for the entire village. But thanks. Cool. Thanks, future assholes. Yeah, Jim doesn't exist. It's okay, guys. But in the jury, whatever, sorry, Jim. Now, in the jury's presence, Johnson started to eviscerate.

And this is when he counted the 13 stab wounds that he could see. Okay. So the report states, I quote, five stabs in the region of the heart, three in front of the left pap, which is the nipple, and five others still further back, as though the arm had been lifted up and instrument struck underneath. They all came from one dagger, so it was likely one person, he noticed, and he also noticed that the wounds had not spurted blood at all and had only slightly oozed. So that meant that the blow to the head was first and had likely killed Captain White, or at least

very much incapacitated him to the point of really slowing down blood circulation. Because obviously if there was circulating blood at a normal rate, those wounds would be going, boop, boop, boop, and you'd be splurting everywhere. They even make that noise. Boop, boop, boop. If you've ever had a wound, you know. I'm not lying. You get a paper cut, boop, boop, boop, bo.

Yeah, that's how we all know. So horrific. How? Oh, that would be really annoying. Yeah, I'd be pissed. Yeah, truly. Now, this was only the initial. assertion, though. This was just like

the first go at it. Okay. A more complete and thorough autopsy. Because again, this was just done in front of a bunch of locals just like right in the living room somewhere. So they did a more thorough autopsy on April 8th at 5.30 in the evening. Now this time, Dr. Johnson

was assisted by Dr. Abel Pearson, who was a medical colleague of his. Okay. Thought they get some more professional eyes on this whole situation instead of Jim from the tea cozy shop. Yes. So this time they agreed that the skull fracture was due to a single severe blow from a cane or bludgeon. And one blow of the dagger was so forceful that it broke ribs.

Ooh, ouch. Yeah. Pearson, like, it's really hard to break a rib. I would think. Pearson actually said he didn't believe without a doubt that it could be proven through the autopsy that only one person had inflicted these wounds. So he did not believe that this autopsy showed that only one person did this. I could see that because you have two separate instruments. Yeah, and he's at least saying, like, I can't say it without a doubt.

Like, he's being smart. That's like, yeah, that's good medical examiner. If you can't say it for sure, you don't say it. Right. He's like, yeah, one person could have done this, but maybe too. He's like, but you know what? Maybe not. Who am I?

I'm not Jim the T-cozy maker, but I am a medical associate. Yeah. One plus. One plus. There you go. Now, Captain White's nephew, Stephen White, gave the Salem Gazette permission to publish all the autopsy findings. So what it said in the Salem Gazette was, quote, however revolting the subject may be,

we have deemed it our duty to lay before our readers every particle of authentic information we can obtain, respecting the horrible crime which has so shocked and alarmed our community. Yeah. Thank you, Salem Gazette. That's nice. Appreciate it. Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, you got permission.

Everything's cool. And then you were just like, I know it's going to fuck you guys up. But I don't know what to tell you. The shit is gnarly. and we feel like you should. That's essentially what they said. Now, Stephen actually initially became a chief suspect. Oh.

Yeah. He was close with the captain, and although he was staying at the Tremont House at the time, from April 7th until then, he had been in Salem a lot and was thought to be the inheritor of most of Captain White's money. Right, because he doesn't have an heir. And then Stephen lives there? I think he's just like hanging around a lot. Stephen's hanging around a lot.

Yeah. He's probably whispering in somebody's ear about an inheritance. I see it. Yeah, so see, whenever there's somebody that's going to inherit most of the money, you at least have to look at them. Of course you do. Now, when he found out Stephen would inherit most of the captain's fortune, Stephen White's brother-in-law,

so with Stephen White's brother-in-law heard that Stephen was possibly going to get a lot of this money, he, quote, seized White by the collar, shook him violently in the presence of family, and accused him of being the murderer. So that's how he became a suspect. which is pretty shady. Yeah. His brother-in-law heard he was getting most of the money

and then in front of family was like, you fucking murderer, you did it. This is giving knives out. It really is. Right? It really is. Now Salem went bonkers at this point. Salem is always going bonkers.

Salem's going bonkers forever and always in like, you know. Different ways. In different ways, in different shades and different varied hues. Sometimes we're going bonkers in a good way. Sometimes in a gnarly way. sometimes in a hysteria way. Exactly. Right now it feels like now in 2022. It feels like it's in a good way. Feels like straight vibes. Yeah. It's going like what does Caleb say? Oh, he says it's going crazy. It goes crazy. But like he doesn't mean like, oh my gosh, they're going so crazy. He means like,

oh, that's awesome. Great. Like that goes crazy. Yeah. Or he might say Salem is bussin. But I don't say things like that because your face when you said you were like, yeah. The Salem is busing. We, we have heard. a lot of Calebisms this week. And I love them. It's pretty great. Yeah. I wish I could say Bussin more, but it doesn't feel correct coming out of my face. It feels really right coming out of Caleb. Yeah. And so does goes crazy. Like when he's like, wow, that goes crazy. I'm like, it does. It does. It does. It does. Yeah. So that about Taco Bell the other night. Yeah, it goes crazy. So Salem's going bongers in like a bad way. Like they're freaking out.

Right, right. Because this was pretty big. This was a very well-known man. He was a very wealthy man, a very respected in that time man, which I'm like guys. Well, and he was like the ship captain. Yeah. And aren't all the streets in Salem named after ship captains? Are they? So my 333 tattoo that I got, shout out to Bald Bill from Yankee tattoo in Burlington. There you go.

He loves Salem. And I think he told me that all the streets are named after ship captains. It would make sense. Yeah. Like it makes a lot of sense because Salem is very much a sea town. Yeah. And he also said that. at the Hawthorne Hotel. There's like this crazy big book on like the top floor. Oh, I heard about

this. But you can only go up there if you're like a sea captain or like maybe I don't know if he said like if you're related to one or something like that. And you can see the book. But guess what? Bald Bill, my dude, so fucking cool, he got to see it. Hell yeah, he did. Not even a sea captain. Yeah, but he's a sea captain in our hearts. He's my sea captain. Captain, oh captain. Captain, Captain, my captain. Yeah. If you're ever in need of a tattoo and you're close to Burlington, Bald Bill is your guy. There you go. And if you're close to Salem, Blackvale tattoo. Yes. Ryan and Matt are your dudes. So we're just sending you all over to get inked. Get inked, bro. Yeah, so Salem's going bonkers. And everyone's buying knives and pistols and adding locks to their doors. It's like the classic like, oh shit. That's good. I mean, it's good. Yeah. But it's like, whoa. Like they're just buying pistols. I'm like, whoa. I meant more putting locks on your door. Always put locks on your doors. Several locks.

Several locks. Several locks. All the locks. Make sure it's Fort Knox in there. Even some salmon locks. There you go. Slap them on your door. Slap them on a bagel. That will keep somebody away. That will keep me away. I can tell you that much. I'm like, oh. Cats might be busting at your door. I don't know if I use that right. They might be busting down your door. Caleb is shaking his head right now. He's not even in the room, but he would be shaking his head right now. He's always like, no, ash. And like, you were saying, like, that's good to have locks. Before this, door. were never locked. People just were hanging.

Yeah. Which is funny. It's like, especially in Salem, it's like, you guys have been through it. And it's like, even by this time, they were like, eh, whatever. It's probably not going to happen again. I don't know. But yeah, something bad happened again. So trying to calm everyone down, they had an emergency town meeting a la Gilmore girls

where a neighborhood watch of sorts was organized. Was Taylor at the head? Taylor Dosey was at the head. Love it. And a 27-man committee of vigilance was put together. Vigilance get a little shifty sometimes. Vigilante justice can be hairy to say the least. Not bussen.

Hairy. Vigilante justice does go crazy. It does go crazy in like the bad way. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. But you know what? At this time, that's all they got.

At this point, they're just like, we got to be on it. Right. So there's 27 dudes that are just ready to be. be vigilant, you know, which sounds really scary. Yeah. Now, this was just, again, this was just a bunch of dudes ready to crack skulls and investigate crimes without any law enforcement experience whatsoever. Just like keep that in mind.

Awesome. In fact, they were given full power to, quote, search any house and interrogate every individual. I feel like we know how that goes. Feels like a recipe for anyone with a grudge against anyone to be like, oh, hello, I can search your entire house and interrogate you. I'd be like, ooh. And you would think that they would have learned that back in the 1600s.

You would think. But members took an oath of secrecy and offered a $1,000 reward for information. And this was supposed to be information, quote, touching on the murder. Seems like a bunch of malarkey. Dudes to me, but like that's just me. I absolutely love the summertime because I love swimming. And then I love starting to fire afterwards and roast in marshmallows. and the girls love to roast marshmallows with me and make s'mores.

It's just great. It feels like summer. But the thing is, I love a good fire, but I do hate smelling like a good fire because the smoke, it like gets all up in my hair, and then I feel stinky and all my clothes smell and it's annoying. And then if I don't do laundry right away, my room smells. And like, I don't really like that. But it's totally fine because now I have a solo stove and solo stove is absolutely incredible.

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during Solo Stove's summer sale. Use promo code morbid at Solostove.com for an extra $10 off. That's solostove.com promo code morbid for $10 off on top of their incredible summer sale discounts. But hurry, the summer sale ends on June 23rd. Now, since the investigation was not really getting a lot of solid leads for a bit because they're just being like, oh, Stephen, you probably did it because you're going to inherit the money. We have no basis for that whatsoever, but sure. People are getting restless because, you know, as we've seen in like the West Memphis 3, and stuff, police sometimes, like, especially with stuff like this, they want to calm the community. So sometimes it leads to a little bit of shoddy work.

Because they're just trying to get a name, trying to get someone behind bars, trying to be like, everything's safe, you're good. Now, the community is getting restless. The media is jumping all over it at this point. Nowadays, I think they would literally be like, guys, it's a dead end investigation. Like, we're working, but I don't know what to tell you. Sure. But two weeks after the murder, the Salem Gazette reported, quote,

In every instance in which suspicion has been excited as to any individual, investigation has made it manifest that there is no foundation for the belief of guilt. I feel like there is. And it's like, but who? I don't know. But who? Stephen, question mark. I feel like that's just like somebody needs to come up and be like, that means no.

Like that was the most flowery way to just be like, yeah, we don't have anybody. Very much so. Do you have anybody? No. We don't. Nah. Now, one of the issues was lack of obvious motive here, because nothing was stolen. Lack of obvious motive, but like inheritance. Well, there's that. But like if it's somebody outside the family, there's literally no motive here. Because nothing was stolen and the home was not ransacked. But then it became clear that this old dude was not a super sweet guy.

And, you know, it's not like you didn't have enemies here. Remember the whole thing with his grandniece Mary? Sure do. How did I forget? Remember that? Well, when she married Joseph Knapp, he cut her out of the will completely. Ooh. Then there was the whole slave trader thing to really piss people off.

So it's like, he's got a lot of people who don't like him. Yeah, he's stepping into shit everywhere. He's not doing great stuff. Now, on April 27th, suddenly it seemed that there was a movement in the case, indirectly at least. You see, Joseph Knapp Jr. and his brother, John Knapp, went to the vigilance committee and said the night before, they were robbed by three guys in Wetham. So now everyone started thinking this threesome of Doom were the ones terrorizing the community. Threesome of Doom.

Yeah, these three guys in Wetham are just terrorizing everybody. Funny how there's three brothers. Yeah, that's very strange. Now, the Essex Gazette reported this and made sure to stress that the Nat Boys, quote, are well known in this town and their respectability and veracity are not questioned by any of our citizens. So they're like, they're fine,

don't worry about them. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, a little more than a week after the murder, Stephen White received a letter from a jailer in the new bed for jail. The letter was a bombshell. It said that an inmate, whose name was Hatch,

said that before his arrest, he had overheard 26-year-old Richard Crowning Shield. Does that sound familiar? Richard Crownin Shield was one of the petty thieves that little Frank Knapp there became friends with in his teens. Yes. Now, he was a small-time thief from a very prominent Salem family, though.

Like he was a petty thief, but he came from a very prominent family. So weird. So he had overheard him, this inmate, had overheard Richard, telling his brother George that he was intending to steal Captain White's iron chest. He was arrested. in Salem and the committee of vigilance brought Hatch from the jail to testify before a Salem grand jury. On May 5th, 1830, the jury indicted Richard Crown and Shield for murder. So they like, it happened like boom, boom, boom. Like this guy hatch, an inmate told this jailer, hey, I

overheard this guy talking about stealing Captain White's chest. The jailer told Stephen White, Stephen White went to the vigilance committee. The vigilance committee arrested Richard, put him on trial, the jury went in front of him and indicted him immediately for murder. It really is. Boop, boop, bo, bo. Telephone. Truly. So his brother George, because remember, he was telling his brother George that he was going

to do this. And a couple of other people present during this supposed confession were charged with abetting the crime. And they were all detained in the Salem jail. Damn. So these two were definitely not the best the Crown and Shield family had to offer. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. They were disappointments.

to say the least. You see, the Crown and Shield family was one of the wealthiest, most respected, and most distinguished families in Salem. Before Richard was arrested, his cousins wrote their father, which would be his uncle, who was a congressman in Washington, to tell him that they were worried Richard may have had a hand in that murder. So they immediately were like, I'm worried about this being him. So then on May 14th of 1830, Joseph Knapp Sr. received a letter from Belfast, main. This said, quote, Dear sir, I have taken the pen at this time to address an utter stranger, and strange as it may seem to you, it is for the purpose of requesting the loan of $350, for which I can give you no

security but my word, and in this case consider this to be sufficient. My call for money at this time is pressing, or I would not trouble you, but with that sum, I have the prospect of turning it so much advantage as to be able to refund it with interest in the course of six months. At all events, I think it will be of your interest to comply with my request, and that immediately, that is, not to put off any longer than you receive this, then set down and enclose me the money with as much dispatch as possible for your own interest. This, sir, is my advice, and if you do not comply with it, the short period between now and November will convince you that you have denied a request, the granting of which will never injure you, the refusal of which will ruin you. Are you surprised at

this assertion, it is useless for me to enter into a discussion of facts which must inevitably harrow up your soul. To conclude, sir, I will inform you that there is a gentleman of my acquaintance in Salem that will observe that you do not leave town before the 1st of June, giving you sufficient time between now and then to comply with my request, and if I do not receive a line from you, together with the above sum, before the 22nd of this month, I shall wait upon you with an assistant. I've said enough to convince you of my knowledge and merely inform you that you can when you answer be as brief as possible. Direct yours to Charles Grant Jr. of Prospect Maine. My favorite, I have a couple of favorite parts about this.

Numero one is that he's like, I can't pay you back right away, but like I will. And my word is good, even though you have no idea who I am. You just got to take it. And then number two, when you write back to me, just like shut the fuck up and just like do. it briefly. Do it briefly. Don't waste my time. Please don't flower it with a bunch of words. Like, fuck you. You're asking me for money. I will write you a six-page novel if I feel like it. And also, you just vomited flowery prose all over my ass. And now you're telling me that I can just be like, no. Yeah. I'll write you a short story, my bro. And this again was given to the

senior nap. So Joseph's senior. Yes, yes. So he could make no sense of this. He was like, who is the fuck? And he asked his son for advice. He was like, what the fuck is this? And Joe Knapp Jr. said, it's a devilish lot of trash. And he advised him to give it to the vigilance committee. I'm going to refer to myself as a devilish lot of trash. I do love that. They did just that. They gave it to the committee.

And the committee got a brilliant lawyer named Rudis Choate on board to help. In a few days, two more letters were turned into the committee. One had been received by the chairman, Dr. Gideon Barstow. And it was also signed Grant. So it was signed the same kind of thing. Right. The letter basically said that this letter writer and Stephen White had killed Captain White and that Stephen had promised him $5,000 that had not been paid.

Oh. So now it's getting gnarly. The second letter had come to Stephen White himself and was signed N. Claxton the 4th. It said that if the $5,000 or part of it was not sent before the next day, Stephen would suffer, quote, painful consequences. Oh, shit. So everybody's like, what the fuck is going on right now? Right.

By waiting at the post office for Charles Grant to get his mail, they discovered that this was a man named John C.R. Palmer in Belfast, who had served some time in prison for burglary. So they set up this whole thing that they just waited at the post office. Yeah, that seems pretty straightforward. Especially back then, I feel like it was so easy to just be like, okay, just go there and wait for that person. and they're probably going to show up.

It's probably like half a block away. So they found out that Charles Grant was indeed John C.R. Palmer. And again, he had served some time in prison. And he's a new character. He's a new guy. Random as fuck. So they were like, hey, John C.R. Palmer, you're going to be charged with acessary to murder unless you testify.

Boom. Because they were like what you're saying that you had a hand in this. Yeah, like you put that in writing, dingus. So he was promised immunity for his testimony. And he said during a stay at the crown and shield home, Palmer, like this guy, John C.R. Palmer, had heard George tell Richard, so the two Crown and Shield brothers. Yes. That John Knapp, Jr. wanted them to kill Captain White.

Okay. And that Joe Knapp Jr. would pay them $1,000 to commit the crime. Because John was the one who was supposed to get married, or already did marry. Exactly. So now the two Crown and Shield brothers seem to be like being used as like the muscle here. Yeah, murder for hire. Exactly. And the Naps are the one trying to plan.

this whole thing. And order it. So the committee of vigilance promptly arrested the Knapp brothers. Yes. They were probably just like waiting too anyway. Yeah, they just needed it. Now once in jail, Joseph Jr. was visited by his pastor, who was the Reverend Mr. Coleman.

He was convinced that Joe was guilty. So he wanted him to confess to him. Yeah. Like he went in there being like, I know he did it. So I'm going to go in there. He visited the jail three times in one day. And in the end of May, after being promised a from prosecution, he finally got Joe Knapp to confess to his role in the murder plot.

Do you think that's true or do you think they just broke him down? I think they just broke him down, likely, to be quite honest, but they are playing it. Like, you know, he just, it was after he was promised immunity. Like, I don't even think that was it. Full concession after 19 visits. Yeah, because I don't think he would have, like, risked his family name and all that, like, that easily. I think it would have had to have been kind of browbeaten out of them.

but like either way, we got a confession, I guess. The confession was nine pages. Damn. Yeah. Little parts of it, I will read to you. I was going to say. I'm not going to read the entire thing. One of them says, I knew that Mr. White had made out a will in which he gave my mother-in-law,

Mrs. Beckford, a legacy of $15,000. According to my understanding of the law, which I've since learned was erroneous, I believed she would get $200,000 if no will was found. I therefore decided to steal the will and have Mr. White assassinated. Four days before the murder, I was in Mr. White's chamber and procuring the key to his iron chest. I took his will and carried it home, burning it several days later. My brother Frank negotiated with Richard Crown and Shield, who agreed to do the deed for $1,000. Okay.

So Joe is just spilling it all right now. Spilling tea. Also, he says, the night of April 6th was finally decided upon, and I persuaded my mother-in-law to spend a few days with my wife at Wenham, excuse me. On the sixth, on the sixth, I visited Mr. White's home to which I always had access and unfastened the window at the back of the rear parlor. That day, Crown and Shield showed me the bludgeon and dagger with which the murder was to be committed. Crown and Shield and my brother Frank met at 10 o'clock that night by appointment and proceeded to a spot where they could observe the movements in White's mansion. It was a

beautiful moonlit night. He was like, we talked about murder, we set it all up, and by the way, it was beautiful. It was gorgeous outside. It was very celestial out there. Crown and Shield requested Frank to go home. He left, but soon returned. During this absence, the lights in the mansion were extinguished, and shortly afterward, the hired assassin placed a plank against the house, entered the window, and crept upstairs to White's sleeping chamber. The moon was shining through the window onto the old man's face. What? Why are you, why are we talking about the moon so much?

Like, why in your confession, are you like, it was a fucking gorgeous moon that night. And then you're like, when we got in there, let me tell you how beautiful the old man looked with that fucking moonlight on his goddamn face. Like, what? Why are you talking about the moonlight so much, sir? Are we going to get into character development next? I'm like, is this like, is this supposed to be like fiction? Like, what are you doing?

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He met Frank on a side street and explained in detail what he had done. After hiding the bludgeon under the steps of a meeting house on Howard Street, he returned to Danvers. Oh, my God. So he hid the murder weapon under the steps of a meeting house. What? So he said, I was at home and went them on this night. A few days later, crown and shield accompanied by my brother Frank,

called on me at my home in Wenham, and demanded his money. I was only able to pay him 105 franc pieces. He related to me all the details of the assassination, and I informed him that our work had been all in vain, that the will I stole was not the last one. And even if it had been, my object would not have been accomplished because of my understanding of the law.

Oh, shit. So before, remember, we said he was old, he was getting ill, and he decided to draft a new will. Well, this idiot didn't know that and stole the old will. And he's clear, he's even admitting, he's like, I'm a dummy, and I thought I understood laws, but I don't.

So even if this was the real will, I still didn't understand it enough to be actually. getting the objective that I thought I was getting. Right. Which is wild. And then he said, the story my brother and I told the vigilance committee on April 27th in regard to the alleged robbery was a sheer fabrication.

So him saying like they were robbed by three ghouls in the night. Yeah. Total fabrication. Knew that as soon as you said it. And he said, it was I who wrote the two anonymous letters. Oh. Oh. Yeah.

So he was like, that was me too. So did he just like hire that guy to mail? them. I think he hired that guy to be like part of the whole thing. Now, Joe Knapp knew that Captain White had cut Mary from the will when she married him. But he figured that if Captain White died without a legal will, his fortune would be divided among his close relatives, giving Mary Beckford, Napp's mother-in-law, a considerable fortune. Now, this all added up because that window that was opened that Benjamin, the man-servant, first saw before discovering Captain White's body, it was left open the night before because

Joseph, who was married to Captain White's grandniece Mary, had full run of the house and left it open intentionally to allow entrance in the night. Like he had full run of the house. Of course he was able to do that. The last true will of Joseph White favoring his nephew, favoring his nephew Stephen, was safely in the office of his lawyer. So it wasn't even in the house. Wow, dude.

This was all for naught. Yep. Now, Joe and Frank had debated how to commit the murder. They considered ambushing Captain White on the road or attacking him in his house while he was awake. But John Knapp told Joe that, quote, he had not the pluck to do it. And suggested hiring Richard and George Crown and Shield because they had known them forever. And they were like, we know they're like scary. So let's do that.

Now, according to Massachusetts law at the time, you could be prosecuted or excuse me, you couldn't be prosecuted as an accessory to a crime unless the principal person who committed the crime was charged, tried, and convicted. So Richard took care of that. Oh. Now on June 15th, at two in the afternoon, a jailer found Richard's body hanging by its neck from two silk handkerchiefs tied to the bars of the cell window. I had a feeling that you were going to say that. And they had slit his throat to make sure he was dead and a note was left in the cell requesting no autopsy to be performed. Fishy.

Yeah. They slit his throat to make sure he was dead. He slit his throat or they slit his throat. Nobody is quite sure. Interesting. And they asked no autopsy be performed. Yeah. In the note.

I feel like he pissed someone off. Yeah. So this is tough because now Massachusetts was like, well, fuck. because this guy offed himself before they could try him. So now they have to try to get the other three on trial, even though it appeared that Richard was the one who actually did the murdering. He's the principal. So you're not going to be able to.

If that person isn't tried and convicted, what are we going to do? Where's the new precedent? Where is it? So things were even harder now because Joseph Knapp was refusing to testify and uphold his confession. Oh, well, yeah, because he knows he doesn't have to. Exactly. So the prosecution called him. Senator Daniel Webster of Boston.

Hell yeah. Who is apparently a famous lawyer and a proven magical unicorn man with powers unlike the world had ever seen. Really? Essentially. Oh. At least that's how history remembers him. Yeah, it usually flowers it up a bit.

Like, this is actually a quote about him. They said when he walked the woods with his fishing rods, kill all the trout would jump out of the streams right into his pockets, for they knew it was no use putting up a fight against him. And when he argued a case, he could turn on the harps of the blessed and the shaking of the earth underground, a man with a mouth like a mastiff, a brow like a mountain, and eyes like burning athrosite. That was Daniel Webster in his prime. Oh, okay. So he makes fish jump out of the stream and into his fucking pockets. I bet. So, like, I trust him as my lawyer. I would be like, yeah, all right. You make fish jump into your pockets? I'm down. But do they say he made the ground shake

He sure did. During trials. Yeah, he made the ground shake. He could turn on the harps of the blessed. Wild. Yeah. You would think that they might look a little further into that and think that that was kind of freaky.

Yeah, I would be worried about that. I know. I was going to say, here they are like hanging witches. Yeah. For just like being women. And then it's like being people that they didn't like. Yep. Because Giles Corey.

Yep. But so they're doing that. And it's like, but then this guy, they're like, the harps turn on all of a sudden when He comes in and the ground shakes and, like, fish jump into his pockets. And it's like, you don't think that's what's craft? No. No. No.

No. No. Okay. Now, his strategy for the prosecution was to say that John was the principal and not Richard. Okay. So they were like, we got to turn this around because if we lost our principal, we got to make a new principal here. Well, I mean, I guess if you look at it, John really is the principal because he's the one who ordered it. He wanted it and he was getting the most out of it.

Yeah. So then they could go back and get Joe as an accessory. Exactly. So they were going to get John and then Joe there who is like, oh, I'm not going to say anything about my confession anymore. It's like, oh, well, bitch, we're going to get you as an accessory. Because he is an accessory. He is. Now, the jury initially deadlocked. And then a retrial began two days later. Dr. Pearson was brought back, the one who thought there could have been more than one assailant. He was the medical examiner that was like, yeah, I can't say without a doubt. Right, right. So he got brought back and he was used to basically put a nugget into the jury's minds that there was a medical. could have been more than one assailant. Yikes. Which was really smart because they're being like, all right, we're pretending that George is the only murderer here.

And that's what Joe over here is going to have you believe. Yeah. But like, it doesn't say that there couldn't have been two. And we can't sit here and just say that it's one. So good thing he said that. Very smart. Now, Daniel Webster's closing argument was called a masterpiece. Ooh, they really love him.

They love a Daniel Webster. He like has something on someone. Well, and you know what? it also worked. The prosecution won. The defendant was found guilty as charged. Hey, I don't know. Maybe fish do jump into his pockets. I think they might.

Who am I to say? I wasn't there. I didn't see it, but I didn't not see it either. Accurate. Now, Joseph Knapp was then on trial, and he was convicted on September 28th, 1830. Frank was hanged in Salem jail three months later. Joseph was hanged from the same scaffolds. Ooh.

Yeah. So bye guys. George Crown and Shield was acquitted because two ladies of the evening provided him a saucy alibi for the night of the murder. I'm obsessed with that. Which they came forward and they were like, sorry, hate to tell you. Love to tell you. He was busy. I'll think so know what to tell you. So here is part of that legendary closing argument because if it's a masterpiece, you should hear part of it.

The human heart was not made for the residents of such an inhabitant. It finds itself preyed on by a torment, which it dares not acknowledge to God or man. A vulture is devouring it, and it can ask no sympathy or assistance, either from heaven or earth. The secret which the murderer possesses soon comes to possess him, and leads him whithersoever it will. He feels it beating at his heart, rising in his throat, and demanding disclosure. He thinks the whole world sees it in his face, reads it in his eyes, and almost hears its workings in the very silence of his thoughts. It has become his master. It betrays his discretion.

It breaks down his courage. It conquers his prudence. When suspicions from without begin to embarrass him and the net of circumstance to entangle him, the fatal secret struggles with still greater violence to burst forth. It must be confessed. It will be confessed. There is no refuge from confession but suicide. And suicide is confession.

Wow. I see why that made it. people will say, well, throw them in jail. It was real magnificent. And also, that speech, that closing argument, was published in an anthology of great speeches. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, it is a good speech. It's a really great speech. Well, and then, like, what's wild about this is like this guy, his name is Edgar Allan Poe. He got a copy of the speech anthology book, and he was inspired by this one to write one of his B-sides that you may have never heard of. It's called The Tell-Tale Heart.

So this is what inspired the Telltale Heart. O-M-G. Yep. Because if you see, he's talking about how, you know, a murderer that it sits inside of him, you know, it possesses him, it becomes him. He feels it beating at his heart, rising in his throat. He thinks everyone can see it. He feels like everybody can feel it and hear it and see it. Like it's literally the Tell-Hale heart that, like, you can't escape what you've done.

That's crazy that this is... Wow. I also love that you went through the entire case. Yeah. And then said that. Yeah, that's crazy. Gotta end on it. Yeah, no, that's a, that's a bull ending.

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a meal that I got from HelloFresh. I really wanted to tell them that it was like an old family recipe, but I had to give credit where credit was due. But everybody was like, oh my God, I'm going to sign up for HelloFresh like right now. And I was like, yeah, you should. And my favorite thing about HelloFresh is that their newest menu releases include Mediterranean recipes that are filled with fresh fruits and veggies, nuts, olive oils, and fiber pactole grains for nourishing balance. That's exciting for all my vegetarian, vegetarian and pescatarian friends out there like me, because now we can have yummy Mediterranean recipes. You guys are going to love HelloFresh.

Go to Hellofresh.com slash morbid 16 and use code Morbred 16 for up to 16 free meals and three free gifts. Again, that's hellofresh.com slash morbid 16 and use code morbid 16 for up to 16 free meals and three free gifts. And apparently you can visit Captain White's home in Salem. Why have we never gone? But what's crazy is they won't mention the Captain White murder on the tour. They just kind of like, won't say it. So we go and we fuck up that whole tour. We fuck it up.

We say, hey, everyone. Hey, you know we got murdered? His ghost is up in here. It's all up in here. But yeah, that is the murder of Captain White in Salem, Massachusetts in 1830. Wow, brother. What a wild. And it was definitely the crown and shields and the Nat brothers were working in tandem.

Oh, yeah. And they all got got got got got got got got got got got got. Wow. That was a really good one. I like that. Isn't that crazy? It's nuts. These old-timey ones, man.

They have such weird shit in them that it's just like. You get like giddy for old-timey shit. I love an old-timey shit because it's just like there's so much involved. There's so much that you can look at. Like the fact that that's speech. That's nuts. Like inspired the telltale heart because Ed Graham Powell read that speech anthology book. Like, and it really does.

Like when you hear the speech, you're like, that's the telltale heart. That's literally what that is. Yeah. Like you can't escape the things that you've done and they're going to follow you. And they're going to drive you crazy until you figure out a way out. That's the truth. Look at that. Well, thank you for listening.

And we hope you. Keep it. Weird, but not sorry that you do any of this, but like cool that have inspired the telltale heart. Yeah, don't murder anybody for anything, but definitely not for money that you're not going to get. Because you don't understand the law. Yeah, you're dumb.