More Life with Carl Radke - ‘American Ninja Warrior's Zuri Hall on Burnout, People-Pleasing, and Imposter Syndrome

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Zuri Hall calls herself a "recovering people-pleaser"—and after 12 years as one of entertainment news's most recognizable hosts, she's learning what happens when she stops performing for other people’s approval. Zuri is the host of American Ninja Warrior, now heading into its Olympic debut, and the new digital series Not About Sports. She sits down with Carl to talk about the burnout she never saw coming, the imposter syndrome that still shows up with every new chapter of her career, and how she learned to stop abandoning herself to keep other people happy. It's a conversation about burnout, ambition, identity, and learning to show up as exactly who you are. Sponsors:  Grow Therapy: Visit growtherapy.com/RADKE today to get started. Momentous: If you want to try Momentous Signature Spec Creatine, head to livemomentous.com and use code LIFE for up to 35% off your entire first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke and welcome to More Life. Today's episode, we've got Zuri Hall. She is the host of American Ninja Warrior and the new digital service. series, not about sports. I cannot wait to talk to her. I think you guys are going to love this one. Excited to dive in here at Soft Bar and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Zuri Hall, welcome to more life. Thank you for having me, Carl. I'm excited.

Thanks for being here. You got your tea ready to go? I've got my tea, which is from your tea cupboard. Are you ready to spill the tea? I am so ready to spill. Well, it depends. Well, it's not going to be that kind of podcast. I mean, I know some of the world I live in, and maybe some of the world you cover. There might be some spicy things, but that's not what this is. is. Okay. I'm just excited to talk to you and get to know you a little bit more and kind of learn about your story and some of the things you do in your journalism career and obviously some of the

mental health stuff with some of the athletes you've spoke to. I know he's done some philanthropy work, which is really important. So I'm looking forward to diving in. Let's talk about it all. I'm ready to dive. Well, this podcast is called More Life. I've really used it as kind of a way to, it's a positive affirmation. It's take advantage of your opportunities. Live each day to the fullest. Amen. Really, you know, you don't know if tomorrow's promise. So like live it all, more life. I love that. So it's something I really like, but I'm curious, do you have a mantra or saying that you live by?

Do I have a mantra or say out loud? What the fuck? Are we allowed to post on this thing? Yeah, what the fuck could work. On any given day, that's normally what I'm shouting out to the world. I would say if I had a mantra, it's kind of, all right, let's do it. Like, I know that that's not really a thing I ever say to myself, but that's kind of the energy with which I approach every sort of twist and turn. turn of my life?

Like the yes person, like people pleasing yes person? I used to be. I'm recovering people please. Same. Yeah. Like high functioning, overachiever type A. I think it's like the eldest daughter thing, the oldest kid maybe. Yeah, definitely.

I like that you said recovering people pleasing. Yeah. Because I've also done a lot of research on the people pleasing stuff. Yeah. And the deeper like therapeutic stuff also, like if you really flip it. Yeah. It's like manipulation. 1,000%.

And like you're like actually like kind of fucked up. for doing the people pleasing. Oh, this is my kind of podcast. Yes. No, you're so right. She's going to take the heel off. I know. Let me get into this.

Like a light bulb went off when I realized, oh, this is actually a trauma response. And to mean that in a real way, okay, at what point in my early life did I realize that by behaving and doing what was expected of me and either being quiet or when I speak, being highly impressive or agreeable, like I got what it was that I wanted.

And what did I want in that moment, whether it was acceptance or to be seen. or to be celebrated. And yes, to your point, I remember when that word manipulation was first introduced to the concept of people pleasing and I was like, wait, no, I gotta push back on that. I'm not trying to manipulate anybody.

But then I'm like, it kind of, even if it's unintentional, you know, it is doing something to get what you want from someone. And it's just something that we've romanticized more often than not. Well, is there something that's worked really well to kind of unravel some of that stuff or has it been?

I think what's worked really well for me, if I was being honest, I got so fiercely protective of, it sounds so like maybe cheesy, but of my inner child. Like once I started doing the work and really unpacking, why am I like this? Why do I do these things? What am I proud of? Yeah. What do I wish I had as a child? Like, what did I need the adults around me who were doing the best they could and did incredible jobs? But what did I need from them that I didn't get?

And so it's easier for me to say no when I need to say no or stop. before the people pleasing kicks in because I just remember that I owe it to myself. Like I think something shifted in my probably early 30s, maybe around the age of 30, where I just saw where people pleasing didn't get me. And I saw that as soon as I did say no or I'm going to pass on that, it was like you're either dropped like a bad habit or you see another side of someone come out. And I was like, oh, so I am going to have to stay on this hamster will of abandoning myself to keep getting this thing that I'm getting

when I show up in this way. And I did get to a place of self-abandonment. Even if it's unintentional, sometimes we abandon in relationship. We don't even realize until we're looking up and it's like, who am I in this now? You know, I have no idea what my needs are outside of being attached to you and yours and whatever it is.

And so coming out of a relationship, not anything recent, I was like, yeah, I'm never doing this again. I'm never abandoning myself for a person, a place, a job again, because the people in my life may have let me down. I've probably led down some people in their lives unintentionally, but I promised myself. I just wasn't going to do it again. And so when I get the urge to cave, I'm like, no, you owe it to yourself and you promised it to six-year-old zuri or eight-year-old zuri.

And if you can't keep your own word to yourself, why would you expect anyone else to? So I'm showing up for myself the way that I expect and hope other people will. It's something I talk about a little bit on this podcast, which is like putting on the oxygen to mass first on the airplane. Like you put it on yourself first before you... Help others. Exactly. So you've got to prioritize number one because you're no good to anybody else.

You can't people please if you're not breathing. Bars. Bars. Yes, I got bars out of it. Zuri, I want to get into a little bit about just you and kind of your background and for our listeners and audience who may not be familiar with who you are. How would you describe yourself at a party? Ooh.

To someone who goes, what do you do? Are you journalists? I would say I'm a television host at this point. you know, like entertainment news journalism for sure. And in my earlier years, hard news journalism too. I started in local. I'm from Ohio.

Shout out to Ohio. The Ohio State University, let's go. To quote Drake, I see all this money through my Ohio State Buckeyes. Bars. Bars. So I started in Ohio and then I kind of worked my way up the local news ladder. I have a question here and it's interesting because I feel like I heard an interview

recently where you were put on the other side. But like what's it like being on the other side? of this conversation right now is like someone who does typically the interviewing and the reporting. You know, it actually feels good. Like, I'll be honest. You rather this. Yeah, I'm kind of like, I'm warming up to this. I'm enjoying being interviewed too. Honestly, I feel like I'm stepping into a next chapter where it is like, hey, I'm Zuri. Like, this is all of me. It's not that like me as a host is any different. It's not like a fake version or, but it's just one facet. So then when people like kick it with me outside of those spaces.

They're like, oh. You're the same person. The same person. And yet, like, there's more. You might be a little surprised by it because you get this one idea of like Zuri the host. And I am enjoying showing the other sides. Yes. Thank you for helping me express another side.

But as you've been like in your journalism game, is there a question that you would never ask someone? Or is everything on the table? Because I feel like journalism, you're supposed to ask the tough questions. Totally. And that is why these days I embrace the title of TV host more or like entertainment news reporter, like I'll report on what's going on. When I was doing more hard news or like investigation, 1,000 percent. And I actually take a lot of pride in asking the hard questions when an interview subject knows you're here to be asked the hard questions. Do you tell them at the beginning, I'm going to ask you some hard questions. Yeah. Well, if it's like a hard news interview, like we used to have a partnership at Access Hollywood with the Black and Missing Foundation where we were highlighting. cold cases for missing people of color and we were traveling. I was going to small towns in Georgia just outside of Jersey. We're all over the country talking to the local authorities,

to sheriffs, to the parents of people who are missing, children who are missing sometimes. And those are different sorts of hard questions and certainly sensitive, but important, right? And then you get, there was one time I was talking to a guy. I used to cover a lot of true crime for access. And he was a scammer, like a literal scammer. I think he'd serve time. And he was sweating bullets by the end of our one-hour interview because I come in and I'm, you know, I'm a very smiley person and I'm like, hey, it's so nice to meet you and thank you for taking the time. And I think he thought, oh, this is going to be a kickwalk. And then 20 minutes in making them sweat. Oh, because it's, I appreciate, there's a freedom in that actually with hard

news and like the more serious journalism because it's my job. And so I don't feel like I'm setting you up for the okey-doke because you know what we're here to talk about. Those are the rules of engagement here. Exactly. And I would. I'm playing by the rules. In Hollywood and entertainment news, especially these days, right? Like, I've always taken pride in not being a gotcha journalist in that sense. Like, if you came to promote your new movie or your film, I'm going to ask you personal questions that I know you're comfortable talking about. If you tell me, please do not ask about this. I just won't. Like, that goes against sort of how I want to show up in the world. I think people reveal more when you create

a safe space and they trust, okay, you know what? I do. want to reveal this here because it doesn't feel like it was forced out of me or coerced. And I feel cozy enough to share this thing I've never shared. For your job, obviously, you're asking hard questions. But then in your real, like, personal life, do you apply that hard hitting question to like someone you're dating or a family member? Oh, my God, yes. So I...

So you don't turn it off. No, I guess it's just how I am. It's in it. And the issue, I realized once, like, when I was really mingling and I'm getting these feedback from these dates and, like, guys would be like, wow, I feel like I just survived in interrogation. And I was so genuinely confused for a while because I'm like, wait, I thought it was great. I'm just asking questions.

I'm genuinely just asking what's coming to my mind. And I have no investment in what your answer is. I'm genuinely curious. My questions are specific. They're just not used to getting asked like that. I just don't think they are. And I'm so willing to answer anything I ask. So that's just me showing up.

But then I realize I got to kind of, I got to ease into some of this. Everyone's not wanting to just dive deep that. I mean, I like the heart of the questions. I love it, right? Like just cut to the heart of the matter. I've talked on this show about going through therapy, and here's the most honest thing I can tell you. I can feel the difference when I'm in it versus when I'm not. When I'm consistent, I show up better, calmer, more present, less reactive.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Well, I want to get into your career. When you moved to Dallas, are you doing sports or is it just news? It was hard news. I was not doing sports. Okay. So how does that translate to then sports? Because sports for me, it's human interest is what transcends everything to me, right? So like, I am just interested in your story. You Carl the person, it doesn't matter if it's an athlete on the field or the court.

It doesn't matter if it's an A-list actor or an Emmy nominee. I want to know your why. I want to know how you got here. And that thread is, I mean, that's everything. It's everything. Yeah, it's actually, as I asked you that question, I realized how dumb that question is. No, it's not dumb at all. because you're right.

Like if I was going to be on the B, a hard sports reporter, stats, analytics, et cetera, that's a completely different ballgame, no pun intended. But that's never been my passion or my interest.

I just love getting to the heart of the matter in any situation. I want to know the last time you cried, which I also asked on first dates and probably that's not, don't lead with that guy. I cried a couple days ago. Did you?

I cried earlier today on this podcast. May I ask why? He said something that was really just meaningful. Yeah. I don't know. I kind of just, I felt for him in that moment. It is beautiful. That was the last time I cried.

Once the last time I cried? The last time I cried, I was having a meltdown. I was crashing out at the house. Thank you for saying meltdown? Yeah. Because that's our version of crash out. Okay, good. It was meltdown for 10 years,

then all of a sudden, now it's crashing. It's crashed out. Yeah, that it was a meltdown first. And then I kind of like translated for 2026. Oh my God. No, it was just me overwhelmed, stress, quite frankly, in my house like, God, why? You know, and in hindsight, I can't even tell you what.

Tell me about the Ninja Warrior Experience. It's been 10 seasons now. This is my 10 season, which is wild. And I still remember when I first got the call that, like, it was my job now. And when I tell you, it genuinely changed my life, Carl. Like, in a lot of ways. Did you jump up and down? Probably. Jumped up and down. Probably shed a couple happy tears. It was a very, I was earnest in, and, like, wanting it. Well, you'd worked probably really hard for so long. And that maybe felt like, would you say that felt like you arrived? It did. Or like it was like your first, like, big time. Yeah. Yeah, because like it felt like it. That's it. Like, I'd been on e-news at that point for years. And so that was definitely like, okay, once I committed to this entertainment news thing,

I wanted to get to e-news, and I got there. And it was great and awesome. And then at a certain point, you start chomping at the bit for more. It's like, especially as an overachiever, it's like, okay, what's next? I want prime time. I want the major network. I want NBC. Like, I love my cable experience for sure.

But, like, how do we get to NBC? And so when I got the ninja gig, it changed. my life literally financially it was significant you know and and then also from an exposure standpoint suddenly you're on primetime you're a part of this already built franchise yeah and it just i think it also my confidence went up with that like landing something that big and then walking out of that set i remember being so intimidated that first night you're just watching it oh my gosh and it was like the imposter syndrome kicks in and okay now i got a host the show i feel like that that that's times I had a guest on earlier today who felt like that. Talk to me about that imposter.

Like, why did you feel like that? You felt like you weren't supposed to be there? Or you weren't seasoned enough? No, because I have always been pretty like, I'm supposed to, I should be here. Like, if anything, I'm like, about time. Yeah, like, thank you. Finally. But then you do have that moment of you don't want to mess up. And also like, in those first, once you get really used to doing something at a certain level and you're not really having any more first for a while. The next first is kind of humbling because it's like, ooh, I might fail at this or I might, I might have overshot the mark. I might have thought that I was ready and now I'm not, you know? Like, even with Access Hollywood, like, things are changing for me. I'm in the middle of like a really

interesting, exciting transition and I'm looking at this fall and I'm excited about it, but also for the first time in 12 years, entertainment news host on a Monday through Friday show will not be like the core of my professional identity. And so as I start to plant new seeds and I start to be on this side of the mic more and I start to do all this other stuff, the imposter syndrome, a little of it creeps in even now. And I know to feel it and then release it. But it's my body telling me like you're about to do a new thing or something that you don't know for sure. you're like one of the best at. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's humbling. And that's a challenge I love. But it's humbling. Okay, so Ninja Warriors rocking and rolling. It is. At what point does the Olympics come along? Ooh, so we are two years out, LA 2020A.

We're super excited. Ninja's airing Monday nights all through the summer on NBC. And in two years here, we will officially be a part of the Olympics, which is wild. We are a sport. We're being recognized.

Wait, wait. I don't think I realize this. No, legitimately. Ninja Warrior is actually a sport? It is a sport. So here's the thing. I do not appreciate that laugh. No, it's amazing.

I love it. It's like, I just explain. No, you're like, tell me more. You have the floor. Smart. Well played. You're good. So for a long time, people have been pushing and advocating for it to become an officially

recognized sport. Okay, I'm glad I asked. Totally. Like, what's important to remember is Ninja at this point, this is season 18 for us. There are children who were born, have only ever known a world. in which Ninja existed and are now old enough to genuinely run the course and compete, right? Amazing. So for them, it's not like, wait, what?

Ninja's a sport? It's like I was two and three and four and watching Ninja with my family. And they've got Ninja gyms all over the country. So even though our show only airs during the season and we film for a few weeks down in Vegas, they're having their own competitions all year long. They're working the circuit. They're traveling for competitions. Have they ever made you run the course?

Hell no. Would you want to if you could? Hell no. I appreciate the honesty. No, no, no. You're good. No. So I like to just support from the sidelines.

Smart. Save for that way. Yeah. I've never broken a bone. I don't want to start. Wait, no, bro. Same. High five for that.

There we go. High five for that. Same. Or very blessed and lucky people. Yep. Just okay. Never know. So I'm knee deep in marathon training right now.

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Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. How do you handle overwhelm and how do you deal with? maybe that pressure. I feel like you have to perform. Yeah. Do you feel the pressure? I do.

I do sometimes, yeah. Like when it's award season or like I remember when I first stepped into the main position as the host of like live from user at carpet specials. And I'm like I'm stepping into like the heels more often than not of like these legends, people I really respect and admire, you know, like Juliana Rantic. Joan Rivers was in that position. Ryan Seacrest, not in heels, but Seacrest, you know. Laverne Cox.

Like these are all incredible people who have been in that. role. And so that, I felt the pressure. But like I said earlier, it was one of those put me in. You were ready. I was ready. I was ready to go. I felt like I had been ready. And it was just when it's your time, it's your time. And so I was really proud of how I met that moment. The red carpet stuff isn't easy to do. Because I mean, it's funny. Some of our summerhouse friends have done some red carpet stuff. And like it's awesome to see them on there. But I know, like, people always have opinions about it. But I always feel like the one, like the red carpet's not an easy gig. It's not. It seems like in some of the conversations you're having with some of your guests,

whether it's podcast, but the mental health thread, some of the athletes also in the competition and their world. What is it about the mental health side of those conversations that you're I think it's because in my 20s, up through my late 20s, even when I was living in New York, I got to a place where I was achieving all these goals and it was best life this and I was a big best life girl. I'm like, chase your best life. You can do this. And then I came up with this phrase. Chase your best life. Maybe that's your mantra. Well, it became best life minus the burnout. Because I had this thing I started referring to as best life burnout. And I had a podcast for a while called Hot Happy Mess, which was like embracing and honoring the hot happy and the mess of my life. And it was all about, okay, how do we do this? How do we chase these goals without going nuts? Like I was in a really bad place for a little while when I was living here in New York. Because looking back, I realized that I was situate. a little depressed, and I only knew it after I came out of it. I was at a major network on paper.

Everything looked great and like I'd made it. And yet I felt really lonely, really isolated. I wasn't working on camera as much as I would have hoped. And because at that point, my entire identity was still in my career. When that one pillar shook, my world shook. So my world was constantly in a state of like feeling like it was about to crumble. And it was, I actually took a trip to the Netherlands. And I was laying by the water. It was a beautiful, sunny day. And like the birds were chirping. And I didn't even realize that I had been living in this state of like, fight or flight for so long. And I started crying. And I was like, where is all this coming from? And at that point, I hadn't been in therapy. I hadn't done a session. I hadn't talked about the inner

work and the child and this I didn't know what any of stuff was and I was like what is this and I realized I felt such an overwhelming sense of peace and that piece was so unfamiliar to me and I was like I don't know what I have to do when I get back to New York but this should not feel this foreign peace and being regulated in my body like now that I know what this feels like I've been so out of touch from it for so long I got to figure something out I got back to New York I got into therapy I started building up the other pillars of my life, friendship, family, hobbies that I didn't have to be the best at to enjoy. And so it's like now when one pillar shakes, my world doesn't. You got a stronger foundation. Yeah, totally. Have a foundation, period.

I mean, the burnout is really an interesting topic because I think, I feel like people don't realize you're going through that until after it. And I, over the last maybe a couple months, I've been doing a lot. And it's a blessing. And I joke with my friends. And here's a bar. I used to pray for times like this. Nice like this. I don't know me as much as I know drink. Yeah, I always would like, people are like, you're so busy, you need to slow down. And actually a good friend, he's a mentor of mine and he's sober and I love this guy. And he's like, dude, you've got to like slow down. Yeah. I feel good for the most part. Do I have days from I'm overwhelmed? Yes. I was going to say, how do you know when you are at max capacity when you're reaching overwhelmed? Like, what's the

first tell? Sometimes I don't eat. And I'm also, I can be edgy with people I like love and care about with my mom or my dad. I could be like a dick over text. That's when I know I'm like, you're like, oh yeah. Reaching a little bit. But finding like that peace and that calm, like I'm good at getting to that, but not almost until I like fully like just crash. Right. And I was, I talked to my parents about this and it's funny, my inner child, that's how I was at five. I would use all my energy all day long and then my parents would just find me in the middle of the floor sleeping. Really? Because I just would go until I couldn't go anymore. Wow. And it's a helpful story to have, but the burnout thing, I think, is a pretty common for high achievers, overachievers.

Can you talk to us about, like, I mean, obviously you went to therapy? Did you open up about that feeling of burnout? Or did you kind of just talk about these other things and it just kind of naturally? Yeah. And like at that time, like we're talking at this point, like about a decade ago, just over 10 years ago. I don't think I started with the name for it. Sure. Almost like burnout's cool. Like I almost feel like sometimes like working your ass off to like the pulp and so you like can't move anymore. badge of honor. Yes. Yeah, we romanticized it.

And at that point, it was like peak girl boss culture, right? So I am taking pride in the grind. Did you have a girl boss mug? Yeah, yeah. Girl boss mug. Girl boss T-shirts. Girl boss is probably in my Instagram bio. And I took so much pride in it.

I remember there was a Facebook status, which is just so cringe also when we used to to like overly emo and tell all our business and statuses. And I was like, oh, just had the longest day ever up at 7 did this and then. And I'm just going to bed at 11 p.m. Grime mode. And I'm like, first of all, you, girl, delete that. I like the D.Rae. Right, because I'm sure there was some like cringe emoji at the end of it.

And I'm like, oh, I used to really take pride in burning the candle at both ends. And then my version of collapsing or whatever that was. And then one day I was like, yeah, I got to opt out because this is a thankless job. I will be on this hamster wheel for the rest of my life. And like, what do I have to show for it? Like, I can't even enjoy the moments that I've worked my butt off to get to. because by the time I get to them, I'm just trying to get through them. And it's like, I don't want to work that hard, get to these dream moments,

and then be so in the grind that I'm like, I just got to get to Tuesday. It's so good. Because I felt like that. So much going on that really is beautiful and amazing and such a blessing in so many ways. But because of the volume of things, you don't appreciate it as much. What are some non-negotiables for you, like in your daily habits? It's like, I know you says you do therapy. You seem like you've got your shit together.

And you present incredibly well. But what do you do when you're feeling down? Or how do you navigate a tough day? Do you have community and friends and people you lean on? Do you work out or run? I don't work out. I need to get my life together. I have.

And I feel like bad asking that. No, why? You shouldn't feel bad. It's good to work. It's good to exercise and move your body. Yeah. Like exercise is good. I didn't assume it as like.

Yeah. Well, I was not like telling you. email. No, no, no. Like, that's a healthy thing. And when I was working out, I had like a little phase where I was in the gym, I was doing squads, I was doing the weight machines. I felt so, I felt so strong and sexy and I loved it. And then, like, I just didn't go for a week. And then I just fell off that wagon because it's not my sort of like usual thing. But at this point, horseback riding, that's how I kind of ground myself. That's how I feel free. I need a reason to be strong. So, like, now I'm back. I'm trying to get back into the gym or at least like working

out at home because I want to be strong in the. saddle and I want to lope for extended amounts of time and I want to stay on the horse not end up off of it. And so lower body strength is stay on the horse. What is it about horses and I have another good friend of mine who loves horses as well. Yeah, they are so intuitive and gentle. And I never grew up around animals, period. So I never understood why I was so drawn to horses. There's like horse therapy and stuff. Big time. Yeah, like equine therapy is a very real thing. So like, okay, your non-negotiables are horseback? Um, non-negotiables are. horseback. I need that to just kind of feel good and feel a different part of myself activate.

My non-negotiables are, I have to sleep. Like, I actually, I'm a really great sleeper. Actually, this is a question I need to start asking more of our guests. How many hours do you need? Eight minimum. Okay. Eight minimum. Yeah. And like... I'm like a five. Five? I wish I could be a factor. Like, it'll say I've gotten like five hours on my watch, which to most people, they like have a heart attack. And I'm like, yes. Are you serious? And you feel energized and ready. Yeah. But for me, for a long period of time, I was just. I was drinking and doing a lot of cocaine and I didn't sleep at all. Yeah.

So even getting three or four hours is... You were like crushing. Money and sober three hours? Yeah. Even better. You're like, I am thriving. I'm like golden right now. I want to talk about, you mentioned the Black and Missing Foundation that you've been

supporting. And I think service and helping others, is there an element of that that's maybe helped fuel and inform just your energy for what you do? Because I certainly, you know, giving back and helping has been a big part of how I keep my shit together. But also like, I really do want to help. but it helps me by helping. 100%.

I feel like I've seen this organization in certain publications or something. Even, it was with, I believe, Lifetime. Garcel actually produced a bunch of scripted projects based off of some of the work that there are these two incredible sisters who run this foundation, and they are relentless in advocating for and spotlighting these cold cases.

And so, you know, sometimes we'll take true crime, we meaning the industry, will take true crime and turn it into scripted projects to tell those stories. And so Garcel was helping produce some of those, which is incredible. But when you bring up that concept of service, absolutely. Like I think growing up watching how my papa showed up for people and it was like honoring their humanity and it wasn't performative and he wasn't really thinking twice about it. And so like witnessing that growing up, I think you are what you see. And so like I grew up with that and being shy and feeling unseen.

a lot of spaces. Also, like, the country day school I went to was incredible. I was also, like, the only black girl in my graduating class, right? And sometimes I felt a little invisible in certain social situations. And the older I got, the more I realized, oh, even through hosting and having conversations like the ones that you're fostering now, you can help someone feel a little less unseen. Like, you can say, I'm listening. Tell me more. And that's such a gift to people for a variety of different reasons. Even with black and missing, when I would sit down sometimes with a parent of a missing child, we're hoping to get a crack in the case.

Oftentimes, no leads do come. They're cold cases for a reason. But more often than not, they would pull me aside. They'd pull my producer aside and say, thank you for listening. Because they feel like no one's listening anymore. Yeah. That's space for them. But that child that they may never see again or that partner that they may never see again,

for them they wake up and they feel that every day and suddenly no one cares to talk about it or not even talk about it. No one cares to hear about it. And so I realize that that in itself can be a gift is just letting someone be seen. And I appreciate what you're sharing just like your background growing up. I mean, curious, just like your high school experience and then maybe how that informed your post high school and how you kind of navigate being a black woman in entertainment and being a black woman host. And I can never understand entering rooms that people are like, what are you doing? here kind of feeling. Yeah.

As messed up as that is, it's real. It's real. And it's been accurate. The more we can talk about it and give opportunity to shed light, I hope we can. Yeah. I appreciate that. And I think it's beautiful. And yeah, it is hard. It still is hard sometimes, you know.

I think there was good and bad to it. The same way, yeah, sometimes you walk into a room and it's like, oh, what are you doing here? The bad is I had to feel that at a really early age sometimes. But when I try to look for the silver lining, it's also I got used to that feeling. I was like, and I'm here. So, hi, Zuri. Nice to meet all of you. What are we doing today? You know? And so getting comfortable with taking up space, getting comfortable with, sometimes making peace with being the only one or feeling othered. And it's hard. And it's especially hard when you're in your formative years and you're building up that sense of self-confidence or identity. And so sometimes what sort of gets wrapped into your sense of self is, am I seeing? Should I brace for invisibility here?

That is everyone hanging out without me feeling of just even when it's unintentional on their end? Sure, like a microaggression, I guess. The microaggressions, 100%. And it was difficult for me, especially when it came time to, and you know, like I see the clips, like the summer house clips, right? I think at this point I feel like we're all the world, not even just America is up to speed, because that explore page is popping. I'm like, wait, what? He did what? shoes. So I'm like, invested now. And it's like, you don't even have to watch the show to know,

like what's going on. You can basically just pull up Instagram and figure out what the hell's gone. Totally. Just crazy. But like seeing those conversations when I saw clips about that, like I felt seen and a little more validated. One, I loved seeing your black castmates be able to talk about their experience. But then I also appreciated hearing some of my reality when I was younger and what they we're sharing and what it feels like to be friends with white people, colleagues with white people who you care about and they care about you or you love them and they love you and yet still. There are certain things that just can't be understood innately because it's just not your reality. And even that was a gift.

I think that was a gift to a lot of black people who understand what it feels like to be the only one in a space was just to hear black voices. talking about that reality in ways that we probably sometimes wish we could have when we were in those spaces, however many years ago. And I found myself in a place of, and a lot of my friends who I share in black friends, specifically who I share these conversations with, where we're giving ourselves grace and permission to not be here all the time. You don't have to be perfect. You can just be you. Yeah. To be nice. Yeah. And like we know that. It's like feeling like the spaces are safe enough for that to be true too.

Because I want to be able to get upset or raise my voice a little bit for five seconds and not be the quote unquote angry black woman, you know? Like I want to be able to express and emote some of the not impressive feelings or energy and just be like, oh, she was having a bad day, not. Yeah, not going to do that. You know, like you feel that pressure. And so you kind of sometimes self-imposed, sometimes by the world around you, crawl into this perfect little page, quite frankly.

And it's like, yeah, no thanks. Well, you're talking about it. I mean, just is so helpful. And I know for our listeners and audience, you know, I think this is going to really an extension of the conversation that happened on Summerhouse. I want to keep allowing my guests and my friends and people I really respect to open up about that because I really think we can hopefully make some change and keep creating a little bit more of an environment where this is like a conversation that should happen in every friend group

black, white, you name it. I believe that. I do. And I agree with you. I think the conversations have to be normalized. It's why I think it's really incredible. Some of the conversations

coming out of Summer House this season especially, right? Who would have thought, right? Who would have thought? I mean, some conversations over here and some that were much needed. Right. 1,000%.

Maybe we can have you come mediate or come in and join one of the conversations at the house. I will gladly pull up to the house. Can I just experience? experience a party in the Hampton. We'll have to get you out there. We would love to have you. I would take you up on that.

Here's the arrangement we'll make. I'll run the ninja course. You come to the summer house. It'll be a little slop. Can we shake on it? We're doing it. I look forward to it. You all witnessed.

You saw us. It's going to be great. It's coming. I would love to. I was always a ninja fan. Were you? Yeah. Well, what's next for Zuri? What is next for Zuri?

I mean, I'm sure you still have goals and things you'd like to achieve. Obviously, overachievers are never really fully satisfied. No. We're not. What else is up there for you? What else are you looking to do with your career or personal life? I'd love to host in a different capacity, like not necessarily entertainment news, more like the big, buzzy, like competition in reality form.

It's like the Ninja Warriors, right? Like ninja, I love doing ninja. I love to do more stuff like that, right? Like what would be the cream of the crop top of the list? I don't know. Like, I am more interested in in this chapter. I'm kind of in my like fuck it phase, honestly. I'm doing a lot of things for the plot.

Like that word play in exploration, I'm applying it to my career. Like, I want to express myself and show who I actually am and see what that calls in. I'm just curious. So I'm really approaching this next chapter with curiosity, you know?

I mean, you're talking about it. You're very self-aware. And I think it's really powerful, though. I think self-awareness is a really, it's a gift in a lot of ways. Can be a crutch or curse too. Curse, yeah. But I think it's like everything you said

is really beautiful, like applying this kind of tenacity you've had for your career and these experiences, but also then for your personal life with a partner, family, children, your parents. That's exactly. And shout out to your parents and shout out to Granny. Yes. That you're going to make me cry. That was sweet. No, of course.

I think our parents and, you know, the people that really help us sometimes don't get the things in recognition. So I want to make sure we highlight them. Yeah, absolutely. I say all the time, like the best parts of me are a reflection of my family. are a reflection of my parents. And I think that is why, like, from an integrity standpoint, I can only show up how I am

because to pretend to be anything else is to dishonor who they made and how they poured into me. And so, like, I don't want to be in any space that requires me to be anything other than who they authentically raised me to be because I'm so proud of that. I'm proud of who I am because I am Joseph and Valencia. And you can feel that.

You can feel the, strength that they've kind of given on to you. I hope so. It's really powerful. Thank you. Thank you for coming in today. I've got one last question for you. Let's do it. Tell me. What is giving you more life right now? Oh, that's a fun one. What is giving me more life right now? What is giving me more life right now is knowing that even as one chapter closes, another chapter is beginning and therefore anything is possible again. You can tell you're doing the work. Yeah. And all the things that you've been through and how you're kind of navigating this. Like that's why you're feeling like I'm ready for whatever. And that's a very freeing place to be.

And I think nothing but good things can happen from that kind of place. Amen. Because you're not rigid. You're just, you're vibrating at a higher level now. You know, I'm trying. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our vibrational energies, like the frequency in here, love it. Same level. Yep. I love it. Thank you for coming in zero.

Thank you for having me. This was great. Thank you. So, so amazing. So are you. Congratulations on all of this. Thank you. We're going to have to have you maybe back in again.

Looking forward to it. We'll do another update. Please do. We'll do an update. We'll plan for the summer house moment. Yes. We've got to get you to a party. We have a stacked calendar.

We've got to get you to a party. I can't wait. Well, thank you for coming in Zer. And thank you guys for tuning in. We'll come to you live again here at Softbar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Please like, review, subscribe. and you can check out MoreLife anywhere you get your podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts. See you guys soon.

More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz, and recorded at Softbar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony music entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino. Set design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy.

Additional support from Abby Sharp. And a special thanks to Alison Shano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old.

You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.