More Life with Carl Radke - Gabby Bernstein on Manifestation, Self-Doubt & Why You're Blocking What You Want

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Manifestation isn't about wishing harder - it's about healing what keeps getting in the way. Gabby Bernstein, the #1 New York Times bestselling author who's helped millions rewire their lives, sits down with Carl for one of his most personal conversations yet. She opens up about getting sober 20 years ago and the childhood trauma behind it all. Together, they unpack what manifestation actually means, why negative self-talk keeps us stuck, and how to stop believing the stories that tell us we're not worthy. Along the way, Gabby coaches Carl through some of his own limiting beliefs in real time, making for a vulnerable conversation about recovery, purpose, and trusting that life is unfolding exactly as it should. Whether you're sober, working on yourself, or simply trying to quiet your inner critic, this episode is full of practical tools - and hope. Sponsors: Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com/go/RADKE! #squarepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you want fun, a nice community, some gossip, some inside tea, then check out my channel The Brooke Ashley over on YouTube. And for my podcast, Girlies, I have not forgotten about you because I'm on Apple and Spotify. We talk about everything, and that's an understatement. So once again, if you want to hear some really fresh takes, some hot, juicy gossip, some insider information, then come on over and join me on my channel at the Brooke Ashley. I promise you, you're going to have a good time. We finally got her. Oh, my God, he got her.

For years, a deranged man in Wichita, known as the poet, stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts, and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere. The poet was always two steps in front of us, and we just didn't know why. And the city was already living in fear under the watch of a night. Another monster who called himself BTK. And he also had a thing for poetry. Could we really have two different people?

But no one could have guessed how this would end. That's one of those Hitchcock endings that we did not expect. From Sony Music Entertainment and New Metric Media, this is the poet. I'm Rachel Brown. The poet is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes. All At Once, Ad Free.

Hey, guys, I'm Carl Radke, and welcome to More Life. Today on the show, we've got Gabby Bernstein. She is a New York Times number one bestselling author. She's written 11 books, including Self-Help, and the Universe Has Your Back, which I think you guys have heard about. She is an incredible person. She has a coaching app for spiritual self-help. It's accessible any time.

We talk about a lot of things. It's the self-doubt, the self-talk, manifestation. some of my personal stuff. She opens up 20 years sober. I can go on and on. I cannot wait for you guys to listen to this. Gabby is like an iconic person that I've been wanting to talk to for many years.

So I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. She's incredible. Check us out here at More Life here at Soft Bar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Gabby Bernstein, welcome to More Life. I'm psyched for this conversation. So glad you're here. I'm actually kind of,

you've been someone that I've had on my vision board of hoping to connect with. People that I've really admired and been inspired by, just love your story. I want to know more about you too today. I know our listeners and viewers are going to love talking to you. So I really appreciate you being here. Right back at you. So, okay, this podcast is called More Life. I don't know if you know why I call it that, but it's more or less, it's a mantra that I like to live by. And it was something that I actually

used to say on reality TV on Summer House back in 2017. It was a drunken thing that I used to say, but now I've really started to look at it as like take advantage of your opportunities, live life to the fullest, you know, 10 toes down, really lean in. Just try and take advantage of life. But for you, does Gabby Bernstein, I know you probably have a few, but do you have any sayings or mantras that you are living by right now? My mantra that I've been relying on returning to detouring from and falling back into regularly is everything is happening around me

and I'm truly taken care of. I like that. It's my mantra because it's not the easiest thing for me. to really trust and to feel supported by others. I feel very supported by God, by the universe, by spirit. Always. That's without a question. That's just inherent.

It's just the human support that's been a struggle for me. We talk a lot about manifestation, which is something I want to get into, but I actually thought you might say you're saying was the universe has your back. It's one of them. The universe has my back, for sure. And that's something I try to adopt and kind of embody

is trusting that something that is meant for you will happen for you. if it isn't meant for you. That part of my life, I have so fucking down. I have full faith in the spiritual realm. I have full faith in a higher power. I know I'm being guided. I know that when there's a holdup, it's for a reason.

I know that everything is divinely timed. I know it. I know it. I swear by it. It's what I teach. It's what I've written 11 books. I'm reading my 12th book right now. In fact, my 12th book that I'm writing right now is called

unshakable faith because that's what it is. It's living with unshakable faith. With that is the human experience, though. And it's almost easier for me to trust the spiritual experience than the human experience. I mean, I kind of agree with that. Actually, the way you framed it there. It's really important. Now, I want to walk everybody back and that people that might not know who you are. Can you talk to us about, I mean, you've been, you just shared with me 20 years sober? 20 years sober. Hell yeah, congrats. Yeah, thank you. It's amazing. You talked to me about who was Gabby before 20 years sober. Abby before 20 years sober. Like you were living in New York career? Yeah. So I moved to New York City right off of Syracuse, SU alum. We got an orange woman in the house. Orange woman in the house. Another one. We've got lots of orange women in the house. We've got a lot of orange people here. As you represent. S.U representing. And I, so I graduated Syracuse. I came to New York City right before 2001. So I was, I watched 9-11. I watched the planes go into the buildings. I had no job. I didn't really ever have a job. I just started my own PR business right out of college because I- Did you do PR at Syracuse?

Nope. I was a theater student. EPA or drama? Yes, SU Drama. Yeah. Yep. And I had no desire to be an actress. I had every desire to make money. I was great at promoting parties.

My cousin who now owns big nightclubs, you know, and he owns catch and all these other restaurants and things. At the time was like a nightlife promoter, Mark Burmbaum, shout out to Mark. And he was like, yeah, come, you know, promote some parties with me. And it was like, say Gabby at the door, people would. rock up to the, and I was really good at promoting parties. I was really good at partying. That very quickly translated to publicity. I just decided I'm going to be a publicist for nightclubs. So I started doing PR and events specifically for nightclubs. Wow. And some beverages,

and so it was all in that space. And you can do the math, right? It's like, here I am 21, 22, 23, 24, and I'm in this space. And you spend enough time in the club. And this, back in the day, It was like bungalow. It was like clubs. Yes. The club scene was very... It was fun. Different now.

But it was really coke-heavy. Sure. And I became a cocaine addict. And yes, yes. And by the grace of God, I hit enough of a bottom for me to make the decision to get clean and sober in 2005. Amazing. But there's a, you know, part of that story I think is really beautiful, which is sort of nearing the choice to get sober. I had this reading with a psychic astrologer, she did astrology and psychic mediumship.

And I had this cassette tape that I would listen to in my car when I would do alternate side of the street parking. And I'd be like. Which for anybody who's not living in New York, alternate side street parking is a whole thing. It's a culture. It's an amazing part of New York lifestyle. Cultural. Cultural. So I'm in my beat up white Toyota Corolla and I'm listening to this voice that's speaking back to me that's the reading that she gave me.

And she's saying, and me know, I'm like hung over from night before I haven't slept. I'm like sitting like sweating and like there's like a red bull on the floor from like. five days ago. I'm like chugging it. I'm sorry, loud. Because you literally know what I'm I literally lived this life. Like I literally was like, oh fuck, I have to move my car. I can't go home yet. So I go move the car. Sitting in the car, I'm like still drunk. And I'm listening to this cassette and the cassette keeps repeating. And I just like press rewind and play and rewind and play. And the voice, this woman says, you're struggling with drugs and alcohol. And I hear my voice kind quivering and I'm like, yeah, but it's not that bad, you know. And she's like, you have two choices.

You could stay on this path and be really destructive or you can get sober and get clean and make a major impact on the world. And I just kept rewinding it. Now, did you have anybody in your life at this point that was like, hey, Gabby? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But the worst part about that is it was my friends that I used with. When you know, when your friends that you use with are telling you got a problem. When your drug addict friends are telling you, you have a problem, you have a problem. That was me. My drug dealer at one point. It was like, you got rubble. No, he's like, I'm not delivering because you like are out of control.

Yeah. He told me, you better find someone else. Yeah, good for him. I'm like, fuck you, man. Yeah. It was the right thing. He did the right thing. But, you know, I always knew it.

I'm not sure if this was the case for you, but I always knew there was more for me. And I had this big stack of self-help books next to my bed. And when I'd be coming down from the Coke, I would be like feverishly scribbling in the journal, just trying to come down. And I'd read these texts, like, of course, and miracles or Wayne Dyer, Louise Hay, and these people eventually became my mentors and my publishers and my friends and really my vision for the future of my life. Did you have family that had struggled at all with substances? My mom was an O-A and I kind of knew that as I was younger. I knew

she had food addiction. Sure. But I also was drinking over a dissociated trauma. So I didn't remember my trauma until 10 years of sobriety. Wow. I remembered in a dream. Wow. Childhood trauma. So, okay, you're getting sober in New York, 2005. Oh, this was fucking fun. I'm so sorry that you didn't have this experience. I mean, New York is the sickest thing. I can't even imagine getting sober in New York City.

I was so in it. I dove head first into sobriety. And what was cool is I'd be in these meetings and it'd be like, oh, you're the bouncer or like you're that guy hooked up in the back of the club or whatever. You saw all the nightlife people. We were all there. And to this day, we're all still friends. I love it.

Do you remember that first? Well, I had two questions. Do you remember the last time you used? October 2nd, 2005. Was it fun? No. Yeah. Same. Yeah, no. The last three years of it were miserable.

Yeah. Like this roller coaster and after coming down and getting, it was like. If it was fun, I wouldn't have gotten sober. Good point. Second question. That first AA meeting you went to. Oh, I cried and cried and cried. Here's a question I started asking myself recently.

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com. You talk about your rock bottom, which I appreciate because I've certainly hit rock bottom, but not everybody does. You talked to me a little about that experience and then from that moment of rock bottom to then that first meeting and then kind of what you were feeling. I mean, you were obviously spiritual

and you were like searching for something deeper. I was brought up really spiritual. So my mom used to bring me to ashrams and I was named by the guru, and I was taught to meditate as a teenager, and I witnessed my mom having a meditation practice from when I was a toddler. So it was something that was really ingrained in my system. So it was what I was seeking regardless. And I was always very psychically aware as a child.

So I also am a medium and I can channel. And I didn't know what that was. And I think that a lot of us that get sober are very, very sensitive, spiritually sensitive as well. And it's overwhelming. And so that was ingrained, though. That was really in my system. And shortly after getting sober, well, the day I got sober, I was on my knees in my studio apartment, and I said a prayer, I said God, universe, who's ever out there, I need a miracle. And I heard an inner voice inside of me say, get clean and you will live a life beyond your wildest dreams.

And it was like, you know, when you're listening to Audible, it's like that kind of listening. So I heard that voice, went to the rooms very, very quickly into my recovery, started speaking about the spiritual awakening that I was having. Love that. And that's when I became a spiritual teacher. So I was teaching at the gay, lesbian, transgender center across the street from my apartment. And it was like 100 people would show up. And it would be 200 people would show. 300 people would show up.

So by the time, like a year into my recovery, I would have like 150 people sitting on, like, the floor and the chairs. And I was setting up the chairs. And I had a little crappy microphone. And I was just talking about spirituality and forgiveness and God and being a sober woman. And I've been a spiritual teacher ever since. And the spirituality is a huge component of the room. and I think for some can be maybe a little bit of a hurdle at the beginning, depending on your connection to it.

I was very religious growing up, but I had a family member who was in the community church that was a priest and pastor, but committed some things that we're not proud of and was kicked out of the church. I developed a little bit of resentment towards the church, and then when I got into AA, it was like this God and higher power. And it took a little bit of adjustment. I'm curious, like for you, can you shut a little light on kind of the higher power for you and turning things over to God?

For me, I feel like one of the great gifts that my sponsor gave me early on in my recovery was, she's like, if you don't really resonate with the word God, just let God be the room, right? God's the energy in this room. God's the fellowship. God's the commitment, right? And so that really resonated with me. I like that. And it's such an incredible or such an important part of the process of getting sober and working the program is having these tools because you need something outside of yourself.

I have always said that I wish that. the world could fall upon the 12 steps. And so... I knew I loved you, Gabby. I'm going to say something that's going to sound quite bold, but the new book that I'm writing is a spiritual step practice for... And it's simple. And it's for humankind to have an awakening.

So that you don't have to just qualify in a 12-step room to get that gift. Sure. I mean, I've said this to friends of mine who've, you know, maybe ask me some questions that are maybe leading to more AA conversations, but I've always even said to them, I'm like, listen, even if you don't think you're an alcoholic, I think the 12 steps are an incredible guide for dealing with your personal life, professional, everything. And it's one of the best tools that I've found that go back to it every day, you know,

and it's right there for you. But it's funny that like it somewhat seems isolated to the recovery community. And I almost like, well, we're the lucky ones. Totally. You talk about meditation a lot. And I started joining the meditation apps around right when I started to get sober, but it's funny, I tried to meditate before I got sober. And, you know, I'd sit there and look at my phone and wasn't really meditating.

But I knew I needed something more. I've obviously read a lot about people that stay sober and support their sobriety, meditation, working out. Yeah. Can you talk to me about your meditation journey? And like, you're like a savant now. Because I think people expect you got to like sit like this in dead silence. You know. Can you break that down first?

Well, I actually have been guiding meditations for 20 years. And my meditations are very quite active, actually. I also really think that we can keep it more simple than we do, right? So meditation could be just connecting to your breath. It could be sitting in stillness for five minutes repeating a mantra and just having a single pointed focus. Taking the pressure off is the point. Yeah, because I think sometimes you feel, like you said, the pressure, you got to do it a certain way. We all have busy lives.

You know, each day is a different day. But sometimes I come into my meditations and I'm distracted. Yeah. I've just been on Instagram. Right. Well, the thing about the distraction in your meditation is, look, that's an active meditation. So really you use it, right? You witness it. You thank it. And you then go back to your breath or go back to your mantra or go back to listening to the audio or whatever, or the music or whatever is guiding you. So instead of you just be the witness of the distraction. And then you say, thank you for sharing and it will release. And then it'll come back. And then you can say, I choose to return to my mantra. I return to my meditation. I return to my breath. That gentleness is why it works. How is it to rebuild and start to become spiritual and to start becoming meditative? Because for some, they've never even considered that. I think you know this, but the way that any type of recovery, whether it be sober recovery,

emotional recovery, spiritual recovery, whatever that may be, change, only works if you have the slightest willingness. And you won't be ready for it until that willingness is bestowed upon you. Now, some people go into rehab or whatever and they get forced in there, but then that willingness shows up, right? And if it doesn't, then they're out again. Yep. Okay?

So it starts with you. It starts with you. So if someone's listening to your show, like I'll look at you right now, if you're listening or watching this show, you have a willingness. It was out of shadow of doubt. You have a willingness. You hear that, guys, if you're listening right now. You do, because you wouldn't be tuning in.

There wouldn't be something about you that would be resonant to them. So powerful. They just they wouldn't have like clicked on the thumbnail or any of it. So there's a desire. And that's where it begins. And that's all that's required. Because with that desire, the door is open. And the podcast is presented to you or the book falls off the shelf or the friend suggests the meeting.

I mean, God, I get calls from people all the time. Like you mentioned that 12 step meeting and like I got sober. I was over 15 years now. Or you talked about it in this book and now I'm clean. It's like you read it when you need it. You get the message when you're ready. It's all divine. Is that overwhelming having people?

tell you that you've impacted them and that? No, no, no. Because I sometimes, I've talked to some other guests of ours, you know, Mike Sorrentino, who obviously gets stopped a lot in the streets, and I'm not Mike or some other people like yourself, but I definitely have people that have stopped me in New York City. And because of the Bravo story that I've shared and my ups and downs, I've had people like, say literally, you got, you helped me get sober. Yeah.

And sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, really? Like, of course I understand it. But what I try to remind them is they're going to impact someone in their life without really realizing it. You know, moving and sounding different. It's like you and I may just have more of a public platform than the person on the street, but everybody that's clean and sober, everybody that's on a personal development path, everybody that's spiritual is having an impact because you're having, whether you maybe

have a global impact because you've got thousands of people watching or you're having a local impact because your kid doesn't use because you didn't use or whatever it is. Or that family friend knows that you're clean and now they got clean and called you. That's why it works. Yeah, that's what's so beautiful. It took me some time to understand. of that and the gift of the sobriety story. But, you know, I sometimes feel a sense of pressure, you know, an obligation, which I appreciate to help other people and to give back. But sometimes

I'm like, I look at women like yourself who've written best-selling books. You speak. You've helped people like literally saving lives. I've had other guests that are literally saving lives. And I kind of look at what I'm doing. I'm like, I want to like get on their level. You know, I kind of compare myself. Oh, I think you are, baby because, sorry, I mean to call you baby. No, baby's good. I have like so many, so many loving ways to speak to people. All right, baby. So I think that you are doing everything perfectly. Then here's the why. Because the greatest form of healing is being an expression of your authentic truth.

And if you can vulnerably and authentically tell the truth, people will recognize their truth in you. So you don't need to have a book or a stage or any. You just have to be real. And that's why you've healed, right? It's in the expression of your genuine truth that you heal others. And so being so vulnerable, being so authentic, and sharing about your sobriety and your brother and your struggles

has saved lives because people feel less alone. Yeah. So right here right now, have a quantum shift around that story and make a decision right here today that for the rest of your life and your career that you make it, it's not about you at all, which I know you know, and it's just about being a truth teller. I love that.

And you nailed, I feel like, so much of what the last few years have been for me in my sobriety. I did enter a relationship eight months into sobriety. Yeah, that's a no-no. Yeah. Yes. I had a friend who recommended AA. That was the first thing he said to me. He's like, bro, do not date for a year.

For me, in the end, it wasn't the right decision. But, you know, those are the things that they kind of tell you early on. But it was just for me. It was such a, like, a rookie mistake, let's say. Well, it was part of the plan. Like, forgive yourself. It was part of your plan. I'm curious, like, you have, when I hear you have, when I hear you.

people have 20 years. It just makes me so, like, inspired and I just, I have so much respect and admiration for what you do. But I'm always curious when I meet 20, 15, however many years, what are things you do first thing when you wake up in the morning? What are Gabby's non-negotiables to start the day? Yes. So when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I say is what miracles would you have me perform today? And it's just my nod to God that says, I'm going to be in the surface of a divine order today. Now, typically I'm woken up by a seven-year-old loud child who's like, mama, let's go downstairs. I love the accent. He's like, a mama. Or he's like, I want to watch a call video right now. And I'm like, we don't watch shows in the morning, bro. So I will

silently get that in, right? On a great day where everybody's sleeping in and I wake up naturally, hand on the heart. I do a four-step question, which is my daily design method, which you might know if you read Super Attractor, which is, how do I want to feel today? What do I want to give today? What do I want to receive today? And who do I want to be today? And I ask myself those four questions because that's how I design my day. The choices that we make from the onset of our day dictate the rest of the day. I've been writing about this in the new book that I'm writing. And it was sort of about, This is the mantra in this chapter that I'm really in right now. You're the first I'm telling to this.

I wrote it yesterday. Thank you. I was texting with a friend and it kind of came out. She's a sober friend. She's like a big, big, big, lots of pressure on her back. And she was getting a little down about something. And she's a huge show. And I texted her and I just said, what did I write to?

I said, let God handle it. You know, let just let God handle it. And I was like, you know what? This is what I would want to say to the world. Just like, let love take it. you know, let love take it away from you. So if you start your day sort of saying, let love take it, take my day, let me lead with love. Let love be the guide. Let love be the inspiration. Let love be the force behind my choices. Then you're going to just intuitively be pulled to go to

that coffee shop. And then all of a sudden you don't realize it, but you're sitting in, you know, the next to your future wife or whatever it is, right? Then whereas if we don't let love lead, we are we're leading. We're in the driver's seat. Our agenda's in the way. We're making things harder for ourselves. I mean, I still do that all day long. My assistant's in the room and she's going to be like, yeah, girl's crazy. But it's about being in the practice. You know, you have to use these tools to anchor you back. And no matter how many spiritual self-help books I write, I'm still having a human experience. Sure. So if I start my day saying, I'm going to let love take the day, it's very different day. Sometimes I feel like everyone treats summer like it owes you

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You know, I've had, even on Bravo, I've certainly have moments where I'm like, wow, like I'm my own worst enemy here. And I'm how I talk to myself sometimes. I've even had a producer on Summer House. It's like three years ago. It's called the Huffman Institute. Yeah, Hoffman, yeah. He's like, you need to go to Huffman. Did you go?

Hear me out. Don't judge me. No judgment. I signed up. You didn't go. You weren't ready yet. I wasn't ready. Fine.

Good for you. It was three years ago, though. There's no judgment at all, actually. Good for you. I'm kind of embarrassed because it was like $350 or whatever it was. So I was like all about it and I signed up and then like two, three weeks passed and I'm like, you know, like this other voice gets in. You weren't ready. No, no, no, no.

Like there's no. You have to trust those voices. Yeah. You have to trust those voices. Do not feel any judgment towards yourself. That's a huge. That's like literally psychic surgery, you know? You're going in and it's going to be like bring it all up and unwind it all.

And it's a brilliant. And I've suggested it to so many people. And I believe you will go, but it wasn't your moment. It was just scary. Yeah, it was intimidating. But what's funny is I didn't go to the Huffman, but prior that I went to Tony Robbins, date with destiny. Yeah.

Which I had a friend who was there, which actually helped. Yeah. That was one of the first things that I did on kind of my path. That's great. Which was beyond powerful. At that time in my life, when I went to Tony, I had not been speaking to my father. My dad had an affair with my mom,

and I just developed a ton of resentment and anger towards him. I was also using and drinking a lot. Wasn't going to Tony to discover some peace for my dad. It was unexpected. So the first day I'm at Tony Robbins, Tony does the breakthrough thing. Too. That to me, some kid near me,

and he raised his hand. He's like, starts talking. Tony's like, why are you here? And he's like, I actually haven't been speaking my dad for a couple years. There you go. But I got my dad to come today. Oh, wow. And Tony's like, dad, dad raises his hand.

He's in another part of the room. Wow. They bring dad and son on stage. Oh, I'm going to cry. I was full body tools. I lost. I was bawling in the seats. And he did this amazing.

exercise with them that. So you didn't go to Hoffing because you were supposed to be there. And that was one of the first things I realized. Like there's another part of my life that I've need to access. And that room was full of a lot of sober, a lot of not sober, a lot of trying to figure things out. But it was there's something about being in a group of people all looking to be better and do things at another level.

It was like really inspiring. The energy of that kind of room. is healing in itself. Yeah. It was really powerful. And he's a beautiful person with what he's done in the world. But I want to get to like the negative thoughts stuff.

Like it seems like you don't have negative thoughts. I have negative thoughts all damn day. So how do you? I work with them. I witness them. Do you journal? I do. I'm also trained in a therapy called

Internal Family Systems Therapy. IFS, yeah. And my last book, my 10th book, was about internal family systems. It's called Self-Help. Okay. And Dick Schwartz, the founder, was like one of my dearest friends.

And he gave me permission to turn his therapy into a self-help practice. And so the way that I work with my thoughts is through these four steps that I wrote about in IFS and self-help. And they're based on IFS. So a fear-based thought that you keep thinking becomes a belief. And that belief, when you ask it, how long have you been around? It's typically going to say, as long as I can remember, right? These are core beliefs.

Most of the fear-based thought that we have on repeat are very, very, very useful. young. They've been around for as long as we can remember. Or they're a thought that's inspired or triggered by that deep core belief. Sure. And so when we start to work with these beliefs, the simplicity is to not try to shut them down, not drink over them, not work over them, not social media over them, not eat over them, but to check in with them. And so it's a four-step practice called the four-step check-in. And it's a self-help check-in. And the first step is to just focus your attention inside, rather than check out, you check in. Right? So you look in, you just turn inward. The second step is to be curious about the thought or belief or pattern, whatever's up, and just ask

questions. You know, how long have you been around? Where do you live in my body? What do I know about you? Are there any thoughts or feelings or sensations attached that you want me to know about? And the third step is to compassionately connect. And this is where you ask that, it's really a part of yourself. You ask that belief or that thought, what do you need? And it will speak up and it will typically say, I need to rest or I need to play or I need to be a kid again or I just need to, I need love. And then the four steps really simply, you just check and see how you feel inside. You notice if there's any self energy and self energy is calm and connected and curious and compassionate and courageous and creative and clear.

And if you have any of those C qualities, then you've tended to this young belief. Instead of shutting it down, like if a little boy came to you and was like, Carl, I'm so upset, I hate myself. What would you say? You're so young and you're so, it's so much life to live. Yeah. And it'll pass. It's a small moment of feeling this way. You'll. You would connect. Right? You would connect with them. If you said that to yourself, like, you suck. Nothing's working out. What do you do? Yeah, I'd be like, I'd believe it in a weird way versus not believe it. Yeah. Yeah. And you'd take it on and you'd act on it and move up. So this is practice of treating these parts of ourselves, these young beliefs as children inside.

And that childhood self is something that I've really tried to tap back into since I've gotten sober, which was helpful to remind myself, like, who was Carl at 5, 6, 7? I asked my mom, my dad, like, I was smiley, happy, always up for an adventure, running around outside, a good kid, well-behaved, just full of life. Yeah. And what's been beautiful is really drawing back upon that self in my current state. Because self-energy is the God within us. Self-energy is the God within us. Self-energy is the child-like nature in us. If you hang out with Dick Schwartz, the founder of IFS, he's a 74-year-old man, it's like hanging out with a 16-year-old.

Like, he, bro, is so chill, he's so fun. It's like, you know, I walk around with him and it's like I'm literally like his big sister, you know? That energy is contagious and it's natural. And when we start to heal these beliefs inside of us with steps like what I shared, those young parts of us feel less burdened, and they're young parts of us that took on adult roles as children to protect us. And they start to feel less burdened, and then they can be more childlike again. I mean, this is stuff, I mean, I more or less started the podcast to get more help for myself

and bring people in that I've always had wanted to speak to. But also give you the platform to share things you're working on and all this stuff you've been through because it's like, I think the more we talk loudly, share loudly, authentically, truthfully, the power is right there unlimited. And I love it. I've seen it happen firsthand. I mean, something for me, like when I was a little kid, like depression, anxiety, like our family certainly has depression in it.

There's mental illness. There's alcoholism. Some of this feels almost like generational. Yeah, of course. The negative thoughts. I'll go home. I was just home two days ago for a huge hockey fan. I went to the Pittsburgh Penguins game.

And I visited my mom for the afternoon. My mom was having a ton of a tough moment. She's got a lot going on. And just some of the negative talk I hear her. It's like I absorb it too. Yeah. And it just was like, damn, like even if I was feeling good, just listen to my mom for five minutes today while she's going through something. It kind of brought me back down to some of those old thoughts and habits.

IFS calls that legacy burdens. So and it can date back to even generations that you didn't even know, right? It's like epigenetic trauma can carry on in many, many, many lifetimes beyond the original incident, right? How would you recommend someone kind of navigating unwinding? I would absolutely recommend my book self-help. Yeah. Or IFS therapy. To someone who's hearing these words for the first time.

Yeah. It sounds intimidating. It is. Yeah, it is. How is it intimidating? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Again, you wouldn't be here if you weren't willing.

Sure. Almost like, but when people say like going to their first meeting, I'm like, if you want to be in shape or you want to look healthier, or you want to have bigger muscles, you've got to go to the gym. That's right. And if you go to the gym and lift the weight at first three or four times, you might be sore the next day. Yeah. But over time, you build esteem, you build confidence. That's right. And your muscles actually almost look forward to getting it.

So, yeah, it's like little steps at a time. It's little steps. It's following what resonates, right? So maybe someone's viving with me and they're like, oh, go read that book. Or maybe somebody's viving with one of the other authors that you have and they're going to go pick up their guidance. or they hear Gabby talked about IFS therapy, let me go Google that and they find a therapist that says IFS and it changes their life or they hear you talking about 12 step

and they enter the room or whatever it is that sparks you is your intuitive guidance leading you. So just don't question it. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become neighborhood favorites. Whether you're gearing up for a busy season or just trying to keep up with everyday demand, Square keeps your business running.

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costs. Go to the games tab and play FIFA World Cup launch edition now, only on Netflix. This is amazing, Gabby. I know. I love you. We're meant to be friends. I love you so much because it's really like everything, obviously we relate on a lot of levels, but what you've been working so hard on. I'm like currently feeling some of these things. This week I go to film our Summer House reunion, which is never like the most. Lots of drinking there. It's funny. There are some drinking, but it's a recorded unit reunion with Andy Cohen hosting. talked through everything that happened. I feel like something I'm experiencing currently is like I just always wait for the other shoe to drop because of my past. And of course, I'm reminded of it a lot on TV.

Just this last week, there's an episode where I talk about having a conversation with Kyle. He's holding a glass of rosé and I'm close to talk with him and I could smell the rosé on him while he's holding it. And what it reminded me of was like I was having a challenge really speaking my truth to Kyle. I love him. He's my best friend. I care about him. But there's been a lot going on. And I was feeling a certain way about just some things and just wanted to like get some things off my chest. But I didn't really know how. But here I am talking to him. He's got the glass of wine and I smell it.

And I'm like in my head, I think if I can just drink that and do some Coke, I'd be, I could tell them I'd feel. Yeah. Yeah. And they show me talking about this with Bailey, who's on our cast and a friend. And it was just interesting kind of watching it back because I've had these moments where like I'm reminded of who I was in the past. And sometimes I like feel like just waiting for that next fuck up to happen, even in my five years. Like, yeah. Talk to me about that shoot a drop vibe. Because even with soft bar here, I've been open seven months. I wake up at the middle of the night, go, yeah. Oh, shit, what if we get broken into?

What if, you know, just all these negative thoughts? Well, first I want to just say to you, forgive the thoughts, because these thoughts, of course they're there, right? You've had trauma, big trauma, big tea, big tea trauma, right? Grew up with alcoholism. You are newly sober. You're baby sober. Like five years is baby sober. Just a little guy. You're a little guy. And, you know, you almost have to look at these thoughts and be like, duh, of course you'd be there. Like, thank you for sharing. Give it, give it to love, give it to God. Call your sponsor. Call me. I'll give you my number. Like, just put a pattern in place of, you know, they have the stimulus, then you have the response. And I think that we have to really forgive yourself. Yeah. For having those thoughts. It's so good. Because I mean, if I really, I mean, I wrote a book.

If I really look at all this shit I've been through my life, of course it makes sense. That's the way I want you to talk to yourself. Yeah. I want you to just be like, of course I would think that. It'd be crazy if I wasn't thinking that right now. It'd be crazy if I wasn't ruminating, right? It's just, just be gentle with yourself because this is getting sober is the first step. And then it's like, how do I undo it's a lifetime of undoing the wreckage.

And it's, listen, I'm 20 years clean. This year for the first time fully living the miracle. Wow. Fully living the miracle. You guys hear that 20 years in. And that's why I try to remind people. It's not a light switch. It's not.

There's been many miracles along the way and there's been so much joy along the way, but there's been so much suffering along the way as well. Yeah. And as long as you're consistently in the pursuit of healing, then there's no wrong. There's no failure. There's nothing's wrong. As long as you show up and you say,

today's another day to heal, then nothing is wrong. You were in it, you're winning. Like my first year of sobriety was easy, let's say. Second year was hard as hell because those emotions, life still happens. Yeah. Relationships, professional stuff. Did you ever hit a lull in your recovery at all? Were you always kind of like just continuing to grow and grow?

I've been growing and growing and growing, but not just because of my recovery, because of my soul's choice, I believe. My soul was like, let's wake up in this lifetime. And so I've had a lot of trauma since sobriety. So I remembered sexual abuse from my childhood when I was 36 in a dream. I remembered this. So that's what I was using over, right?

I didn't know. I didn't know why I was an addict. And then I had suicidal postpartum depression, like nearly took my life. Then I had near-death menopause that I knew how to get a handle on quickly. I lost a child in a late stage pregnancy, like six-month pregnancy. And these are, I say these things.

All sober. And, you know, these were really, these are, one of those situations is horrific. And I every day along the way would say, thank you. Thank you for an up-leveling of my faith. I remember, even after I lost my son. And. Yeah. Thank you.

He's my guide now. I'm totally just like your brother. You're going to make me cry because that's how I viewed. Well, your brother is here. He's protecting us. He's always, he follows you around all the time. He's always with you. My son Owen, he came to me to teach me, you know, don't sweat the small stuff and to know what it was like to be loved by me for six months. And, you know, so it's not an accident.

But I remember a few days after, I had to have an abortion because he wasn't going to survive. And so a few days after the procedure, I looked at my girl. finds a league. This is what I've been training for for, you know, 19 years. By the way, I just saw a spark of light right above you because that's how I see spirit. And I just, I just said, this is, this is what I've been training for. And my faith is holding me like a blanket. And I have to say, it's a horrible experience to have, but because I have faith and so much faith, I was able to really move through that and continue to move through that with a deep understanding of why and how. Faith, God's got you.

Totally. And that it was part of the plan. Yeah. It was part of the bigger plan. You make it sound so easy, if I'm just being honest. No, none of it's easy. Yeah. It gets easy.

Sure. It works if you work it, right? Always. And so having, if I didn't have all the recovery and all the faith, then I would have, that would have taken me down. But because I had so many years of devotional faith and commitment to my practice, I could move through that with a higher awareness of what it was. Now, there was times that were even more difficult than that.

You know, like postpartum depression was the absolutely most horrific experience of my life. I would imagine you opening up so truthfully and authentically about that. I mean, I got on meds. I got on Zoloft to save my life. But I avoided it for four months because I was brought up homeopathic and I'm in the wellness space. And I'm like, oh, you know, I can't take drugs or whatever. And I realized, like, I'd probably been shaming people for years, being like, meditate. And if you have a mental illness and you tell someone to meditate, it's like saying, fuck you to them.

Right. And so I know that God gave me the gift of learning what mental illness is. so that I could really speak with authority and authenticity and compassion and connection to people who experience that. And once I went on that medication, I was like, holy shit, where has this been all my life? Like, I've had an anxiety disorder my whole life because I had trauma. You know, if you need heart medication, you're going to take it.

Yeah, you take it. Why wouldn't you take the antidepressant? It's crazy not to. It's crazy. I mean, in the 20 years you've been sober. I mean, there's obviously a huge stigma shift, bigger conversations around sobriety, mental health, or it's seemingly more commonplace.

Huge. Can you talk about the juxtaposition from when Gabby got sober to now? Oh, my God. I guess were you always wearing it really proudly back then? Always, even then. I was really proud of my recovery. Really. I was one of those people that I said like shouting it from the rooftops. Like I really was. You loved it. I was so happy and relieved and I loved my friends. And one of some of the fondest memories of my life were the first five years of my sobriety. I would rollerblade from meeting to meeting. I wouldn't wear a helmet. I was just like... I see any bike without a helmet. Oh, please don't.

Please don't. I'm going to start doing it. Now you have to listen to my voice in the back of your mind. Please don't do that. Yes, I will hear Gabby now. But I was just rollerblading and like going to yoga classes and leading spiritual movement in New York before it was trendy. And like, you know, going to these raw food dinners, it was like this like underground thing in the East Village. You know, it was just like so...

I have a lot of compassion for this new generation of 20-somethings because that thing I had doesn't exist. anymore. This is something now in my sobriety, like where I drunkenly write shit down, dreams, hopes, it was all delirious and... Yeah. Delusions of grandeur. Now manifestation, which is a topic I hear a lot. Yeah. More in society, we talk about it here because ever so slowly, every time I talk out loud about something, it seems to work. Talking about your perspective of manifestation or how did you first discover this whole principle? Or what was the first thing you manifested that came to life? Many big things, and I could speak to these things as like, oh, being interviewed by Oprah at 30 and like these kinds of things, right? Sure.

But what is manifestation? Manifestation is a natural state. We're always manifesting. We're either manifesting what we don't want or we're manifesting what we do want. We manifest who we are and we manifest what we believe, period. So people think that manifesting is a practice. of thinking something enough or saying something enough or having a vision board. And all of those things are true because your energy and your thoughts and your focus are your point of attraction.

But the real form of manifestation is healing the core beliefs. Because when you heal your core beliefs, you no longer believe in lack. You no longer believe in the scarcity. You no longer believe in the judgment, the fear, the attack thoughts. And as those beliefs start to dissipate, your energy becomes more free, and then you become wildly attractive to the energy of the universe. And you just begin to call in naturally. You can live with a sense of knowing that so it is. This is a desire I have. It's coming to me in ways I could never have imagined. You trust the holdup. You're not stressed about the one or the how. You're just, you're in it, you're guided, you're protected. You know, you just know. There's a project I'm working on right now with friends of friends in the room.

And it's a project that's sort of been in the ether for me for 20 years. And now it's happening. And it's so happening. So something you manifested that long ago is that I've been knowing intuitively and psychically. Like this is something and it's something that's sort of been passed through my life and been offered in ways and it's been a no, no, no, no, no. And it's here now. And as I look back and like, this is 20 years of visioning and it happening now, I'm like, perfect. This is, this is no accident.

This was the exact moment in time for this to manifest. I love it. What's something that people get wrong about manifestation? I think it's like playing magic tricks with the universe. That's what it feels like maybe when I hear, I follow some friends of mine. The way they talk about it sometimes, this feels a little cool lady. Yeah, cool lady. Yeah. How do you combat that kind of reaction? It's not a trick. It's just alignment. It's just get into alignment.

Heal your thoughts, heal your beliefs. Bring a positive attitude. Look, if you have more gratitude, if you show up with a high vibe, if you transform your thoughts consciously. If you focus on what you desire rather than what you don't want, yes, you're going to change your point of attraction and you're going to start to manifest more. The question is, will you believe that you're worthy of it and keep it? Okay. I feel like I'm not worthy of anything sometimes. That's okay. And even giving you an example, I've been selected for a recovery community here in New York called

Release Recovery. I run marathons with them. I'm running the London Marathon this weekend with them. They have a gala every year who was started by a guy who happened to be on reality TV, Clark, and he's, I think, 14 years sober now. Amazing story. He started recovery clinics and behavioral health centers, and they're honoring me as like a community award winner. Beautiful. And when he called me to tell me, you know what I said? I was like, there's like five other people I can name part of your community that are deserving of this. He's like, shut the fuck up, bro. That's what he said. Can I give you some hardcore advice? I sometimes worry like I'm not worthy of some of this. Can I give you a Gabby kick in the ass right now? Please. The feeling of unworthiness of any of the things that you desire implicitly is making

it about you. But it's not about you at all, right? None of it's about you. And the second that you say that this isn't about me, like, I'm just showing up, I'm just being authentic. I'm just being real. I'm just telling the truth. I'm just here to serve in my own way. I'm here to have fun. I'm here to bring joy. I'm here to be the light. If you get into that mentality and remind yourself every day, it's not about me. It's not about me. It's not about me. Then if it's not about you, then who cares if you're worthy or not. It's not about you. Damn. That was good. That's really good. Yeah, it's not about you. That's so good. Because you're absolutely right. Yeah. But also, let me be gentle with those parts of you that believe that, right? Because those core wounds are young, young, young, young little boys inside of you,

okay? And so I don't want to override them and be like, oh, get over yourself, blah, blah, right? That's a nice mantra and I know you get it and that's why I can say that to you. Sure. But I want to be gentle with the parts of you that feel unworthy. And those parts need some support. And those parts, I would be blown away if they went to IFS therapy. I'll give them the self-help book. Those parts need your attention and they need your love. Well, how do you feel about like recognition? Like you deserve and have earned a lot of amazing accolades and recognition for the work you put in and the people you've helped. Does that ever, like, I get recognition for things sometimes. And I'm like, I haven't really done. I don't know. You get praised for things sometimes. And I almost feel like

I'm getting more praise than I deserve. I think that's the core wound. The core wound is I'm not worried. I try to be humble and just try to be, the humility is so important to me. Like, I'm no better or no worse than anybody. What's a good response to like? Well, somebody says to you like, you changed my life.

Your answer is no, you changed your life. I just told you a story. Okay. You changed your life. I haven't changed anyone's life. I don't sit in people's apartments and hold their hands. No, I wrote a book. I tell a story.

I gave a talk. I gave a podcast. I inspired change, but I am not the change. So what do you say to that person if they say? I say you changed your life, honey. You did it. I just told you a story. I just gave you some inspiration, but you changed your life.

Yes. You can listen to all the people, but not do the work. Two things come up to mind. I was looking at some questions I wanted to ask, but it talks about the past. I would imagine you have some things from your past you're not proud of. Yes, totally. Have you had, you mentioned also remembering something, you know, post getting sober and all that, which, you know, I've had to do a lot of healing.

I had a sexual encounter with a male and a woman. I mean, I was taking advantage of. I was 12 years younger than the male, and he was my boss. And we had a party at this. I was an actor at this stage show and had a sexual encounter with a woman and also a male. And I never talked about it because I'm a straight man. I was 22 years old. Yeah.

And the man was 44 years old. Getting sober, like, it took me some time to, like, actually still, like, wrap my arms around that. And I actually worked with a therapist on some of the, trauma from that. Big trauma, yeah. But how it all unfolded with that story is that actually, I never talked about it for 10 years. I told someone who had been on our cast of our show. This is eight years ago on Summer House. I had told him off camera, even before filming. How I told him was over cocaine, 3 a.m. at an after party. The best blow job ever got was in a threesome from a guy. And that's how I said it, the first time I ever talked about it.

And that conversation with him ultimately then was brought up on camera six months later. Now, I didn't lie about it when he presented it to me. I was like, yeah, I did say that. But wow, you know, it really messed me up. He brought it up. He brought it up. Oh, wow. Now, he made amends.

He did get sober. I've still connected with him, and we have a cordialness, which is really healthy. And I also made amends to him. So the amends in your past, it's something that I, because of television, I'm reminded of stuff more than maybe most others. Definitely, yeah. But it doesn't make me any more special. It just sometimes I'm like, not everybody has that footage or not everybody has.

I think it's lucky for you. Yeah. Let me tell you why. Well, one, first, I want to have just extend so much love and compassion to the part of you that was traumatized, exposed to trauma, and then the trauma was exposed publicly. Like, that's big T trauma. I'm so sorry that that was your experience. Yeah, it was a tough.

I mean, I have a lot of grace for my friend also because it was a, it just got messy because of the world we're in. And also, that's what the reality show wants out of you. Of course. Now, the beauty of it is that you're not hiding the. truth, right? You're bringing it to the surface. You're exposing it all. And sometimes, like myself, I've lived in a world where I've written it all down. I've sold it and said, hey, or I've given it away or have, you know, just spoken truth to it. And I feel a lot of freedom in that.

I feel a lot of freedom saying, yeah, you know, I can be an asshole when I employ people at times. You know, like there's plenty. I could line up like 15 people over the years that worked from me and they'll be like, she's a bitch, but she's a wonderful teacher and she does great things in the world. So over people can be assholes too. Well, I'm not a great boss. I'm like, I'm a tough boss. I appreciate the honest. And particularly for those who worked for me when I wasn't really fully prostitist in my trauma, right? Because, like, you get triggered the most with the people that care for you. And when you have a trauma that makes you believe that people can't care for you, that's a very bad dynamic. So there's plenty of people who worked for me who have left, too. I think half of them would say she's a wonderful human who's doing excellent work in the world.

And the other half would be like she was very difficult to work for her. Isn't that just life a little bit, though? Like, you're not going to... You're human. Not everybody's going to love you. That, but also, like, you know, I've made amends to a lot of these people in my own way. You know, like, I've said something, not expecting anything back. And not a lot of people, but I think maybe a good amount of people would have left with, like, a sour taste in their mouth, you know?

Like, that was tough or it wasn't great or whatever. I think most people had that dynamic with their employer, usually, in some form. I wanted to start manifesting something right now. We've been doing it all the last couple episodes. I think that there is this beautiful Abraham Hibank. Hicks practice. And Abraham Hicks is old school metaphysicians that really all of the manifesting tools that you know come from the source of Abraham Hicks. And Abraham would say, wouldn't it be nice? And so you can just start getting into like, wouldn't it be nice? Wouldn't it be nice?

And start being in that energy of, I welcome this. In the perfect time in order, this is the other secret to manifesting is to forget what you think you need. So praying for what's of the highest good for all. So it's put out there. You want it. Keep mentioning it. Keep sharing it with the universe. And what you desire will definitely be there or something better. I have something written down. What does trusting the universe actually look like? Oh, it means you know that no matter what, you are divinely guided and protected, you have a sense that as long as you are in that alignment with what's of the highest good for all that everything will be revealed to you in the natural time and order.

Why don't they teach us in school? I know. Honestly. Good question. Because I feel like somebody's... We're taught the opposite. Of course. Yeah, we're taught the opposite school.

Truly real spiritual school is this. This is life is spiritual school. Yeah. The world is our classroom. People are our assignments. Every single day is school. So we are going to have to choose. Where can I develop my faith more?

That's why I'm writing. the next biggest spiritual book. It's going to be like scripture throughout the world, which is this unshakable faith practice. I can't wait to be here in a year and a half from now and talk to you about it. We're going to have to do an event here for it. Let's do it. I want to do it.

Done. I can't wait to stay there. I want to talk to you for so much longer. Well, we're friends now, so it's all done. You obviously know this, but really powerful and incredible work you're doing. I know you're helping tons of people, including myself. Very grateful for your visit today. We talked a lot about more life.

What is giving you more life right now? What's giving me more life right now is my son. What's giving me more life right now is full surrender, practicing what I preach, and just writing this new book. Because as I write, I learn, right? So to teach is to learn. And I'm receiving the messages as I give them.

It's amazing. You've not a lot of similarities. But you've written a lot of books that have sold a lot. You've done amazing work. I'm just so grateful you came in today. I'm grateful for you. People want to check you out. I'm very familiar with you,

but for our audience and listeners, your current book that's out right now, or when's it? That one's self-help. Self-help. If you're trying to get clean and sober, I wrote a book called Spirit Junkie many years ago, which is wonderful for that.

I'll send it all to you. The universe has your back as my most popular book. But we mentioned self-help, and I think it's probably one of my most important books that I've ever written. Well, I want to say something to you. Yes. I want to say,

and I want to tell you how proud I am of you. Thank you. And what a gift it is to be in a position where you have such influence to be able to share your truth in the way that you do. And I just think you're a rock star. Thanks. You're going to make me cry. I feel a sense of obligation and immense calling in my body to do what I'm doing here.

You are. Yeah. And part of, you know, my brother passing, but also really having that spiritual awakening, my family history, the trauma of the family. family, my own personal stuff. I see the impact I'm making. And it sometimes just pinch me a little bit, but. Well, he's working through you. He is sort of directing your path. He's also saying that he just didn't want to be here anymore. Like he was just done, you know? And he's like, don't worry about me. Like, I'm great now. But he didn't just, he was just done.

And but that's so interesting is he's really fueled all of these amazing. That's right. It was part of his contract. You talk about the first five years of your, first five years of your sobriety, my first five years. Look at all these things that accomplished and amazing. Like, I'm literally the luckiest guy in the world and the one person I wish I could have back is my brother. Well, he's here. So that's the thing that he wants you to develop that relationship with him. Do you mind them like literally hearing him?

Yeah. So he wants you to start to develop more of a dialogue with him in whatever form that comes. And I'll send you some videos and things that you can use to do that. Yeah. One question for you. Yeah. My friend Mia. Yeah.

Who's on Summerhouse. She worked with a medium. Yeah. who also worked with Sierra, who's a dear friend, they have both said to me, you should do the medium thing. Yeah. I've never. Well, so I am saying, I am a medium. Yeah. But would you, would you recommend that for me? Yeah, I have plenty of mediums I could refer you to. But he's here right now. What he's saying is I'm part of all of it. So when you start to feel doubt, when you start to get into the place of unworthiness, speak his name, ask him for help, ask him to lift you up. Like I see

him like lifting you up off the floor literally like physically lifting you up off the floor he's a huge part of your recovery like he helped you get clean and sober he puts you in the room and he's you know he's like clapping clapping clapping clapping clapping clapping clapping so so so so so proud but he's also like i'm your partner bro like he's literally like your business partner and he's like you have to sort of treat him that way even though you can't physically see him and it's developing that relationship do you have a sign for him i mean not like a like a like a like a like a Just think of the first thing that comes to your mind right now, like a coin or a butterfly. I think a music.

Music. Okay, specific song, what would be? Guns and Rose's a Sweet Child of Minds. When he plays that song for you, you're going to know it's yours. I go to a barbershop in the East Village. I went in there about a year ago. I told the story a bunch, but I'm going to say it again. I sit down in the chair, sweet child of mine's playing.

My brother, when we were growing up, played that song on repeat back and forth. That's your sign. He's a guitaring. Sitting there, the song finishes. Yeah. Starts playing again. Yes. That's my, that's my, that's it.

You don't play the same song back to back. But that's how Spirit shows up. So that song is your sign from him. So now it's going to come up all over. Just let it be there. Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be. You're going to text me. Like, holy crap, look what just happened.

Because he's like banging at the door. And he's like, you need me. Yeah. I wrote his name on my marathon sneakers. Yeah. Yeah. And what's interesting is I hit a wall in New York City in the fall. And something about knowing he was with me.

in Sharpie on my sneaker, my running shoe, Curtis, you know, and I've had little things that have reminded me, he's still with me and been protecting and looking out. With you, with you, with you, like tagging along. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabby, thank you so much. I love you. I love you too. So great. Shout out to you and your family and all Syracuse alumni and all the people. But thank you for being here today. You're just a bright, bright light and incredible. I love the vibrations that you're on.

Together. Another level. But yeah, thank you. Thank you guys. I'm trying not to cry at the end here. It's just been an emotionally beautiful thing having you come in today. Right back at you. Thank you, Gabby Bernstein.

Thank you. And thank you guys for tuning into More Life. Check us out again here at Softbar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Cheers. Thank you guys for joining us on More Life. Watch or listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And please like, review, subscribe. It really helps us out.

More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz, and recorded at softbar studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony music entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams.

Sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino. Set design by Michael Ignacio. publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. And a special thanks to Allison Shano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time.