More Life with Carl Radke - Joshua Bassett on His New Memoir, Addiction, and Surviving Heart Failure

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

'High School Musical' star and musician Joshua Bassett sits down with Carl to discuss his memoir, 'The Rookie: My Public, Private, and Secret Life', opening up about the ketamine addiction that nearly killed him, surviving heart failure at 23, and the body image struggles men keep hidden. Joshua serves as an Official NAMI Ambassador. NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) is the nation's largest grassroots mental health organization. Learn more at NAMI.org. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke and welcome to More Life. Today's episode, we've got Joshua Bassett. He's an actor, he's a musician, and he's a big voice in mental health, huge advocate. He's also got his memoir that just came out called The Rookie, My Public, Private, and Secret Life. We're going to dive into all sorts of things, mental health, addiction, recovery. Cannot wait to dive into this conversation here in Greenpoint at Soft Bar.

All right, Joshua Bassett. Welcome to More Life. So happy to be here. Great to meet you, man. You too, man. Love having you in here. I don't know if you know this, but you probably just learned. My podcast is called More Life, which is something I used to say, and I still say on Bravo. But it's a mantra that I live by. And I'm curious for you, is there something that you have, that you say out loud or daily that you kind of live by or embody? Totally. Well, a lot of the philosophy of Rookie is start before you're ready, because I think a lot of times people wait for the perfect moment and you're going to be waiting forever.

Like there's never a perfect moment. You just got to do it. But the last page, spoiler alert in Rookie is Love, is worth living for. And that's been one that I've really, um, sort of sunk my teeth into of just like when you feel like you shouldn't keep going or you, you know, you get fatigued and you're lacking resilience to remember that love is worth living for. And that's the reason why we're doing any of this is love. Success is cool. But ultimately, what good is all the money in the world if you're alone? So, uh, you know, love that you said that. I read, I was checking out your book. Congrats. Thank you. I mean, I'm sure you're helping people. Mm, that's the goal, you know. And I think that, like, though the suffering is obviously painful, when you're able to turn it into art, it kind of redeems that suffering.

And so it's beautifully cathartic to kind of, you know, if my pain gets to lead to other people's healing, then it was worthwhile. You know? I want to give you a hug when you say that. That's exactly what my why when I wrote the book. It was, how can I take what I've been through is painful, difficult, tragic? But we're in positions of influence. People have been following you and watching you and learning. I had this kind of epiphany. It was like, I'd rather people actually hate me for who I am

than like me for who I'm not. Yeah, that's so good. And when I put the book out, I mean, I put some really dark, difficult things that I've been through. I had a sexual experience when I was 22 where I was taking advantage of. My brother passed away from a drug overdose. I've had crazy things happen in my life, which have also shaped why I became an addict and why my mental illness and all these things really manifested. So I'm just, again, what you put out there, it's so beautiful that your goal was to help people. Yeah, thank you. And you just stay true to that.

Book sales. Of course, your book publisher cares how many books are sold. Shout out to the book publisher. Let's go, car. We love our publishers. And to their credit, they allowed me to put whatever I want in the book. And that is amazing. Yeah.

When you were putting it all out there, can you talk to me about just like from the beginning until the time it went out? Like how long was that process? Yeah, I mean, I've been working on it for five years on and off. I mean, obviously I've been working on it, like actively for five years. Yeah, exactly. And there's some poems in there from six years ago. there's some that I wrote like literally the day before we turned in the manuscript.

Going through that was actually very sad to kind of see like the way I was talking to myself, like back then, the way of evolved in sort of the shame and how I like spoken about myself. I mean, there's many times where I was just very mean to myself and beating myself up and having a bit of a step of removal and looking back on it. I'm like, you shouldn't talk to. Part of this podcast, honestly, is for me a little bit to learn, grow and also connect with individuals. I think going through similar stuff and like kind of what you just shared there is like I feel. I relate to that so much. But like when you put it out, did you have any second, like, thoughts of like, I wish I didn't

do this. Because I will say the day before my book was about to come out, I kind of was like, I don't want this. I don't want this. It's too much. Totally. What if no one reads it? What if no one cares?

Right, right, right. No, I definitely had those feelings last night when I was falling asleep. I wanted to touch on the quote in your book. I'm a huge Jim Carrey fan. Uh-huh. And I love the quote that you kind of have. I think everybody should get rich and famous so they can see that that's not the answer. Yeah.

That was like the first thing in your book. Yeah. It's the first page. I think if you build your life and identity on the adoration of others, get ready because it's going to change. And people aren't always going to like you. And sometimes the very same people that do like you end up hating you. And sometimes in the same day.

I've seen some of my fans, like hardcore fans turn on me. Because of a misunderstanding, to be honest, I've seen fans of mine who I've met at 10 different shows, like turn on a dime. And then the next day they love me and then the next day they're upset at me. And if I allow myself to find my worth in their adoration, then it's going to be a roller coaster because their adoration is a roller coaster because feelings are fickle. I mean, you got pretty famous, pretty young, right? Yeah.

Would you say that, like, fame was a drug in a sense? I mean, followers, all this attention, you're getting probably invited to parties and sent to different places. Absolutely. I felt like that when I first got on Bravo. Like the first year or two, it was like a light switch. Yeah. But it was so, like, addicting all these girls and all these parties.

Right, right, of course. And, you know, I was no schooled. I mean, I was technically homeschooled. But if you look to the records, I was no schooled. And I always... Shout out to your teachers. Let's kill my mom and my dad. No, but I always was insecure about...

I always felt like a loser. You know, I always felt like insignificant. I felt like I was behind. When you grow up feeling like a loser and then all of a sudden you feel like a winner and you feel like, you know, you have the world in the palm of your hand. Of course, that's something that you start to crave.

But ultimately, you know, that if you still deep down feel like a loser, like there's no amount of adoration that will change that. I sometimes feel like a loser too. So I appreciate you bringing that up because I, you know, sensitive person. I think, you know, as I've gotten sober, you know, I've really had to get back in touch with my childhood and different things that I've been through, which trust me,

it wasn't easy once I got sober. But that's where the real work went in. And I had to kind of draw back upon kind of that youth. I'm curious, like, did you have a point in your sobriety where you went back to, like, really examine that childhood? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's still something that I'm definitely in a much healthier place now. But, you know, I think the whole thing with addiction is you're essentially snoozing your healing. What I mean by that is you're just like, you know, it doesn't make it any better. You're just pushing it back down. but it needs to come out. Yeah.

And I just wrote my notes out the other day that people will spend 90 years avoiding what can be healed in 90 seconds. And so often we think that we're helping. But again, it is only hurting. And so the second you stop pushing things down, even through like fasting, I found it being incredibly powerful.

I don't know if you ever fast. Sometimes. Yeah. Unintentionally fasting. Yeah, sure, sure. I'm just stressed and I can't eat. Yeah, right, right. But like, you know, when you don't eat, you know, that stuff really comes up, you know?

And so I'm not saying people should not eat at all. I'm just saying, like, as an example, And that's been a tool that I found that leads to a lot of breakthrough and healing. I mean, that's kind of what sorriety can be, to be able to like feel emotions. Yeah. I embrace now. I mean, sometimes it's difficult. You'll have a sad day or depressive day.

When I get that feeling, I'm like, I'm alive. Yeah. I mean, just you, there's a feeling you get generally with energy and people. I can tell pretty quickly when I'm dating someone or trying to pursue dating. Uh-huh. My body usually knows. Absolutely. And what's interesting is when I was drinking and using, I didn't honor my body.

do now. You kind of numb that. You get out of tune with your body and so you start to make stupid decisions because, yeah, you're not able to feel that. I totally agree. I feel like the body's always right. Absolutely. There's more information being sent from your gut to your brain than the other way around. You know your gut is sending more information to your brain. I don't know. So your gut is actually really your brain in terms of like it's telling you, it's giving you more information. So when they say trust your gut. Literally. Yeah. It's like another part of your brain. Totally. And I think that anytime I override my gut and I don't listen to it, things go wrong. It's like a built-in compass almost. The more and more over time, I really try to

honor the body. I think a topic in your book a little bit, and I love that you talk about that, because I think as a male, especially, it's important to have some of these masculine conversations. You know, and I think men are more likely to not talk about some of these things. Absolutely. I'm a little bit more vulnerable than most. Right. But even what you were sharing is like another level, which I appreciate as a male. And I think we need more of these conversations because men struggle to open up about stuff. Yeah. Men bury a lot of feelings and emotions. because that's what we were taught to do as kids. You're supposed to be tough and strong.

Absolutely. Yeah, there's one of my favorite chapters is crying over spilled milk. And it's this whole concept that most times when a kid's crying over spilled milk, it's not about the milk. It's about something else they were going through and that was just the tip,

like that just sent them over the edge. And so then when you tell a kid, don't cry over spilled milk. Obviously what they mean by that is don't be dramatic and don't make a mountain out of a molehill. However, what you're teaching the kid is that they don't have a good enough reason to cry.

And so then now, when they are feeling, things and they want to cry, it's not a good enough reason to cry. And so they, you know, that was for me, I would be like, no, you don't need to cry. But it's like, dude, if you're crying, you're crying, there's something that needs to be healed and that is trying to come out. But you can push it down. I mean, that's the danger is that with our free will, we can suppress those emotions and we can push it down. And I think that I got really good at that for a couple years and I was a kid. And more years as well as an adult. But I do my best now to really like cry as often as I need to,

you know? Let it all out. Yeah, exactly. And I cried too. And I kind of, like I said, when I cry, I'm like, part of me is like, I'm alive. Yeah. Which is like a, my gosh, it's like a bath for your soul, bro. It's like a great feeling. I'm like, wow, sad, but okay, things are okay for the most part. Yeah. All right, guys, we live in New York City.

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versus the substance itself. You talk about that a little bit. Like I think a lot of people, when they listen to what we're doing here at More Life, not everybody relates to every little piece, but I think that's a broader way to look at replacing, you're putting something in your body to fill a void. to look a hole.

Yeah. There's a level where you need to be practical about the substances themselves in terms of the issues with your relationship to them. But if you deal with the underlying pain, the reason that you're even reaching for the bottle, then I think that's the solution, right? Obviously, there's a certain point where you do need to restrict yourself and you might need help and you might need accountability, all those things. But if you just cut off all substances, but you do none of the work in your heart and in your soul, then it's only a matter of time, in my opinion, before you kind of end up back in the same.

place, you know. So that's been something I've been really focused on, you know, in my journey. And I'm still open to different things. Like, I really want to get into EMDR therapy. I mean, it's so cool that we live in a time with so many different tools. And I think that, what I love about social media, although I have many complaints and frustrations. The internet is undefeated. Yeah. There's just a melting pot of ideas and expertise. And I think that there's many different ways to get help and there's many different tools. And you might need one of them. You might need 10 of them. You know, sometimes, like for me, with PTSD and sort of anxiety and how you can kind of be stuck in a state of fight or flight, I have like 15 different tools that I can call on.

Some days I need none of them. Some days I need all 15. Sure. But there's different methods. Like a toolbox of resources that you can, whatever time of day, whatever point in your family, you can tap in. Yeah, totally. And so I think like with sort of the healing process, it's the same thing. You know, sometimes I really need to walk.

Sometimes I really need to journal. Sometimes I need to call friends. Sometimes I need to cry. Sometimes I need to watch a really good movie. Sometimes I need to do all those in the same day. And it's like learning alternatives because I think also if you just cut off the substance, like I said, and don't have an alternative. You know, I think you've got to replace it with something.

Yeah, I think you captured that really well, even just saying like you could get sober, but if you're not doing the work, you know, there's the term dry drunk. And I, listen, I've had my moments where I'm on, you know, Bravo and Summerhouse where I've had spirals and meltdowns and I'm sober. And it's like, I'll get comments from people, dry drunk. And it's like, yeah. In that moment, did I call my sponsor? or do something that probably should have done no.

I also am going through things in real time. Totally. I think it's important for people to see that sobriety is not this linear direct path. If you're willing to talk about a little bit, just if you take us back to kind of when you started drinking and using, like what age was that? Because you're 25 now? Yeah.

And what I want to say is like I applaud you for how young you've been getting sober. I'm 40, 41. I'm trying to say 40 because it sounds better than 41. But I'm getting older. I'm getting nervous. But I can't imagine getting sober. when you're that young. Yeah.

Or going through the level of stuff you're going through that age and how confusing and you're still developing. I'm also not stone cold sober just to be clear. And I appreciate that. I just don't want to like

have any kind of false idea that I am. I mean, obviously I'm not using like ketamine like I was. You know what I'm saying? Sure. But I think that's important here because we don't have a judgment at soft bar.

I don't have a judgment. I want you to do what works best for you. There's tons of different nuance in sobriety. Of course. Of course. There's people that are stone cold sober but are California sober.

California. Then there's people that are stone cold sober but smoke cigarettes and take Xanax, and that's fine. There's people that have other alternatives that work for them. I'm a big believer in harm reduction. Yeah, and I also have my roommate and my best friend. We have a system, you know, of accountability. And, you know, I can't break a peaky promise.

I won't be able to look them in the eyes. So I, you know, I have sort of systems in place to ensure that I don't fall into a spot that would be harmful again because I think the danger before was isolation. You know, I was completely alone. Nobody was checking me. You know, I was kind of doing whatever I wanted. How old were you at this point? I was like 23 when things got really out of hand.

When it was just like, it should have killed me the level of. So you were isolating a lot, which I also relate to big time. I isolated. I mean, I would call people, but be by myself drinking and doing cocaine all day all night. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, all day all night. I mean, I talked about in the book how my dealer didn't start selling until 3 p.m. So I'd send an alarm for $2.55.

Go down to the ATM. Get as much as my daily limit would allow. the ATM and then I'd buy as much as that would get me and I would try to make it last and it would last until through the next day. I would use it all before 10 a.m. And then I'd sleep until 255. And you know, I like I had more money than any one at my age should have and no one checking me. And so to go back to answer your question, when I was 14, my friends sort of started introducing alcohol. He's a lot older than me. And it seemed harmless at the time. I was super homeschooled.

And so I had this, like, strong desire to fit in and to be free. And I hated the restriction. And in my opinion, all the cool kids drink. So funny, because when you're 14, you feel like you're old enough. But then you look back and you're like, bro, I was 14. It's nuts. So that started kind of progressing. And he actually used that as a bit of a tool to kind of get me to do other things that he wanted me to do.

And at the time, I thought it was just like what the homies do. But obviously, I wasn't really. aware of like the the age gap and like the the fact that it wasn't always um a lot of it wasn't consensual sure and so he kind of used alcohol as a way to like lower my guard and and i was a lot more suggestible sure and then uh introduced weed when i was 15 i mean i got really good at hiding it for my parents actually funnily enough the first time i ever had alcohol i had an entire water bottle of vodka like i didn't know that you only need a little bit i i just didn't understand nobody was watching me and paying attention and I was I drank an entire water bottle of vodka

when I was 14. So I had like the longest worst night of my life. Moved out when I was 16. I became really responsible actually. Like there were times where I'd be like a party and there would be like cocaine in the bathroom and I would leave it. I was like I can't be around this. I was actually a lot more independent and mature when I was 16 than when I was 23. Wow. But yeah. So there's a sense of like I had to be an adult. But then, you know, slowly but surely. You get roommates. And, you know, again, it was like pretty casual. But it wasn't until my life went into real crisis when I was 20, that it really was like a daily, a nightmare, you know, and it just progressed and progressed and progressed and got to a point of,

you know, almost killing me. It's funny because I almost died from heart failure and I prayed for help and I got help and I was healed from heart failure, failure, but then I wanted to kill myself after that. There were days when I was like, I wish I didn't make it out of the hospital. Like, I wish it would have been just easier and I would have been taken out. And so, you know, I was constantly in a state of extreme fight, flight, freeze, distress. And, like I was just, you know, like I said, that cavity, like my soul, like, I was so much drowning. And so every day was just an attempt to disappear. I didn't want to kill myself.

I just didn't want to be alive. And so I did everything I could to be completely numb. And the second I wasn't numb, I did everything I could to get numb again. So that was kind of the journey. And then I appreciate you just sharing all that, by the way. I'm not, I don't want to cut you off and give you the space to talk. But I relate to a lot of what you said because I, my final days of drinking doing cocaine, I was suicidal.

Wow. And I was isolating. I was just by myself. Totally. And I was so sad, so depressed. But when I did get sober, I'd be miserable again and was suicidal even more. Right. And then you're at a deficit, right?

Because, you know, you feel good, but then you feel worse. It jumps off a cliff. So then you need even more and then you get worse and then more. You know, yeah, 100%. I mean, I'm curious, like, at what point were you opening up to others? Were people aware how bad you were? Or did you? I mean, I read in your book, you did open up to your team.

and people around you're like I'm I need help I'm addicted to drugs yeah I wasn't that way I thought I could like figure it out on my own but everybody close to me plenty of time I thought I could figure it on my own yeah course I'm curious if you can open up about for sure moment and some of the people you shared that with and how that impacted totally yeah I mean I had some friends in New York that like knew that I was unwell um they knew sorter than I was using but I was pretty good at hiding keeping everyone away and um yeah I mean I Again, I kind of, I had a couple of rock bottoms. There was a time when I got better for a little while on my own with nobody even knowing that

I was really getting better. I just was like, you know, in a much healthier spot. And then again, you're like, okay, I feel healthy. Like, I can dip in a little bit. And then I got even worse. And, you know, at a certain point, I was like, bro, you're going to die. And at that point, I didn't want to die anymore. And I, you know, I just said, okay, you know what?

I can't keep doing this on my own. and I made the sort of deal with myself that if I was able to stop, that I wouldn't have to go to rehab because I knew that that's kind of a stain on your career. Not to say that you can't still get help and you shouldn't get help. Of course, if you need rehab, get it. But I kind of made the deal with myself. If I can get clean, then I don't have to go to rehab. And so I did.

And I was able to get a lot better. And again, just being able to reach out, get resources. And my team is able to give me everything that I needed in terms of help and whatnot. So, yeah, I mean, again, it took a couple of rock bottoms. But eventually you just get to a point where, you know. You didn't want to live like that anymore. Yeah, totally. And also you stop believing the lie that you can do it all yourself.

And I think that that's one of the main lies that you believe in addiction is that you can do it alone. Exactly. And I get questions a lot. People say, I need to get sober. I need to get help. And what they say is they don't tell anybody that they're going to tell me, which is I'm honored. And I try to remind them like, it's really hard to get sober in a vacuum or by yourself or without opening up to other people's without community or someone to relate. someone to relate to.

Yeah. Well, you know, what's also interesting is that, you know, I believe the opposite of addiction is connection. You look at a lot of issues in the world and it's a lot of the root of it is a lack of connection, a lack of community. And, you know, social media gives us the illusion of connection. But I say that it's a launch pad for connection. It can be connection, but it's not the connection itself.

Even if you're watching someone and you feel connected to what they're saying, you're not actually connecting with them. That's not the same as sitting down and seeing someone in the eyes. And there's so many days where even now, like where I'm having a really, really tough day, really anxious, I'm really whatever. And then I see some of my good friends and instantly I'm like, everything's okay. And they kind of bring me back down to the ground. And so, yeah, that's a huge fundamental part, I think, of life that we're really lacking these days, you know, and that's for a handful of reasons. But I think we're underestimating what community.

The power of connection in communities. I feel like that's such an important piece of like staying sober or finding that path. Like it's, I don't know how people do it privately. solo and I tried to do the same. I'm like, I can get sober without everybody knowing. Yeah. And there's also something to say, like something to be said about how it's kind of embarrassing to have to tell people that you've fallen again, you know? But I think if they really care about you, they won't, they won't judge you. There's something kind of brave in being really honest. Yeah. I'm with you because I had slip ups when I first got sober. I mean, I tried 2020, but I was moderating. I'm just going to drink gin. That lasted a week. Yeah. And I think, I think with, with shame and

everything like when you do screw up or you know if you set a standard for yourself or you make an agreement with a friend and then you fall there's this shame and embarrassment and that ironically that keeps you more trapped yeah and having you know turning things over to a higher power and having some of the framework of what i mean a for me is providing but something for me that i kind of picked up on your book i mean talking about PTSD and your past when i got sober i still had to go back and talk and look at karl at age five i had a lot of alcohol in my household I had a lot of fighting. My brother was an addict as well.

He struggled with heroin. I used to watch my brother shoot up. I used to watch crazy things happen with my brother at home, but I never dealt with it. And I'm curious, like, when you got sober, we're starting to, like, do the work, but then having to reflect on your past. He talked to me about the PTSD and then kind of reexamining that part of your life and how that kind of, you know, manifested. Yeah, well, I think the way to have compassion for yourself and others is to understand that there's a, a, reason why you are the way that you are. You know what I'm saying? I mean, yes, there's free will to an extent, but we are both nature and nurture. And you have to remember like, again, some people,

I mean, literally genetically, if your parents were addicts, you're genetically predisposed to addiction. So you have to remember that when you're dealing with yourself because otherwise you're beating yourself up and that's not going to help anyway. You can't shame yourself. You got to accept that, okay, I come from this background. Totally. From this family. Right. It gives you grace about yourself. Absolutely. And so, you know, I will say that like, you know, a large part of like writing the book was very cathartic for me, but it was incredibly difficult. I mean, I can't explain. I was living in Burbank at the time, but I would go to Malibu to right because it's like heaven on earth. I would do those things that kind of get me into that state where I'm ready to create and I'm ready to be

vulnerable and it kind of strengthens my capacity for discomfort, which by the way, I think is one of the most important things that this generation needs is to strengthen their capacity for discomfort. Because I think that's partially why addiction was so big of an issue for me, because I couldn't withstand any discomfort. And that's actually an entire chapter is How much of your life have you missed? Because you wouldn't withstand a little discomfort. So anyways, I do all this work. I drive an hour to Malibu.

I sit down. I write one line and I freak the fuck out and I go outside and smoke a cigarette. My whole body was in pain and I'd be like panicking and I'd be like, okay, you got to work through it. And then I'd sit down and I'd get a little bit further. And then I'd go outside and eventually kind of build that resilience and the ability to sit in that discomfort. On his podcast chasing life, I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

CNN's chief medical course. correspondent brings you the secrets of the happiest and healthiest people on the planet so that you can live your best life. Are some people just born happier than others? And what might they be doing that the rest of us aren't? Follow Chasing Life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Apple, Spotify, IHeard Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm curious, like, how you navigated, like, you have a tremendous platform,

but you're also some days going through things in your own, feelings and body. Like, can you talk about the parissocial and, like, how your story has resonated and just like, I get stopped in the street all the time at people. And they're like, you save my life. And I've never met them in my entire life. And it's like the most beautiful thing, but also I sometimes feel like an imposter where I get more credit than I deserve.

Oh, God, I can't tell you how many times I've been taking a picture with someone. And in my head, I'm like, if they only knew. If they only knew my secrets. If they only knew the things I'm ashamed of, if they only knew my faults, I don't think they'd be asking for a photo. Yeah. Well, that's, I think, a really relatable thing for someone in the public eye. Yeah.

I think that's where I, like, I can't continue to perform. And, you know, I think that, like, learning how to be authentic, good, the bad, and the ugly. That's why the tagline is my public, private, and secret life. Because I'm trying to close the gap between who I am and who people perceive. And obviously, that doesn't mean you can be vulnerable without being transparent, right? They don't need to see everything. They don't get to see everything.

And I still get my privacy. Teach me that. Yeah, right, yeah. I don't know how to, like, do it. I'm going to give you everything or I'm like, I don't know how to hold. Yeah, sure, sure. I mean, I think, you know, they aren't owed everything, you know. Sure.

But I actually choose. I prefer oftentimes to share because it's just more powerful. And honestly, like, yeah, the performing is exhausting. But yeah, I think that's something that I've really had to grow in is like thick skin and a soft heart. Because, you know, daily still, I mean, there's people that will shout things at me on the street or in a bar that will say something incredibly rude and hurtful. and I truly just laugh now. Like there was a time where that would ruin my day and I would be like, oh my God,

I feel like I can't go anywhere and people are so mean and why is the world. And now like it's just funny, bro. I like laugh at it. That's the best thing to see though. It's like embracing that and laughing. Yeah. I can't take it personally, bro.

Like it's somebody's own shit. They're trying to, you don't get to steal my piece anymore. You don't get to take my joy away from me, you know. Obviously if we have an issue and we need to have a conversation about that, absolutely. You know, I'm not saying I'm a, accountability. I'm not saying I'm above

reproach and I want people to confront me and I should be challenged. I'm not saying I'm not going to listen to anyone. I'm just going to do whatever I want. But if you don't care about me and my well-being, your opinion matters very little to me. And I think I'm so strong on my identity now and my security and my community and my friends and my identity with God and my love for myself that I'm no longer seeking that validation and approval from others.

And so that's where the freedom is because for a while I was at the mercy of the opinion of others. And that's why I was drowning. I mean, there's multiple reasons why I was drowning, but that's one of the reasons why. Did you have to put on a certain thing on social because of the show you were on and some of the audience? Like, there's a disconnect, like who you really were, but then like this character you played on a show and you've been performing. Can you talk about a little bit of that? Yeah, I mean, there were times, I mean, I talked about in the book how I kind of had a brief window of eating. I don't know if you could classify it as a disorder, but I struggled with eating where, you know, I'd get to the hotel

and Disney would give you the biggest box of cookies and sweets and cake and anything you could ever eat. And at the time, you know, I was like only 18 and I didn't have any way of getting any other substances by the grace of God. And so I would, to alleviate my stress, I would just like inhale all the sweets that I had, knowing that I was just going to make myself throw up because I really wanted that. I crave that relief that I got from sugar. But then I knew I didn't like my double chin and I wanted to look good on Good Morning America. And so I did my best to kind of clean that up. And so there was definitely this sort of facade that you're putting on.

You are so open and honest about everything you go through. I think that of itself is so powerful. And even what you just shared about some of the food stuff, I don't think I've ever actually talked about this. Oh, really? I'm going to talk about it right now. Let's go. When I was in college at Syracuse, I had a body image disorder where I thought I was chubby.

I was a little bit of a late bloomer. I didn't look like some of my guy friends who were more like just, they felt, they filled out. I was like still like immature, like say in college. And I would binge eat Domino's pizzas. Five five five, five was a thing back then. You could order five pizzas, but like get five different one or five dollars per pizza, but you can get different toppings on each. I'd order like three different five five fives and eat all of them and then purge at the end. Wow. And you knew you were going to purge, right? Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like, yeah, I knew I was purging because. Pre-decide. Yeah. Before I even got and ordered the pizza.

But this happened for a good, about a year. But the shame and guilt I developed because my friends I mean, they were like alpha male guys. We were all part of like a fraternity in a way. So like the thought of saying any of this to them, they would have ripped me to shreds. Yeah. But I internally like developed this like, this is what I needed to look good. Right. Of course.

And I appreciate you sharing that because I don't think. Thank you for sharing that. I don't think a lot of men are comfortable talking about that because of variety of reasons. I know women too. Eating disorders are very hard to talk about. Yeah. And it's way more common than we know. I mean, you just said you haven't even talked about it.

I never talked about it ever. Yeah. Maybe one girlfriend in the past who I've opened up about with. Wow. Well, thank you for. But it gave me control in a weird way. Like it was one thing I could control is like, oh, I can manage this. Totally.

Yeah. I can't manage the feeling of I feel ugly or I don't think I look good. Right, right. Yeah. And it's almost like you kind of convince yourself that you can have the pleasure without the consequence. Yeah. Because, but ultimately, obviously it's like abuse to yourself. 100%.

You know, and if it also, I mean, incredibly damaging to your body in tons of ways. And I also developed like acid reflux and my stomach was kind of fucked up because of all this. Wow. And there was so many other things. after effect, but you talking about it gives me peace that I can talk about it. Yeah, that's awesome. I appreciate you. Well, there you go.

I mean, that's the proof of concept of the book. But that's exactly what you want to do. And it's something I didn't even put in my book. Wow. Because it was just never been able to talk about it. Sure. Well, thank you again. I want to get into the masculinity of things.

And you talk about it in your book, just like I relate to this a lot, being in the public eye, but also as a kid. Like, I grew up in a pretty alpha male dominated household. My grandfather was a Marine. Oh, wow. My dad was pretty big football. well-player guy and you don't cry, you don't talk about your feelings. Just grin and bear it. Right. Tough it out. You know, you talked about kind of as a kid, you taught yourself basically

not to cry. You talked to me about just that, like trying to people please or. Yes. It was also an embarrassment thing. So I was the most emotional kid that I've ever met to this day. I mean, I have five sisters and I cried more than all five of them combined. I mean, that was, I had to laugh at that because I'm like, that's, you have a lot of sisters. A, shout out to your sisters, but the thought of you being more emotional in five of them is like... Combined, yeah, no, no. I mean, I was emotional all the time. But given some of the things you've been through, now making more sense to you. Sure, sure. I also just think that, I don't know, I was just born very, very sensitive,

which I think is partially why I've struggled with addiction so much is because I'm pretty hyper-sensitive. All the most sensitive, sorry to raise my hands so high, but the most sensitive people I've met are also addicts and sober. Yeah, yeah, totally. Being the king of sensitivity. Right, right, yes. Eventually, and my dad, who I love, and I know he didn't mean any harm by this, he was genuinely trying to. to help me. At a certain age, he kind of pulled me aside. It was like, you got to stop crying. Like, you got to just stop. And I get it's because he, that's what he was taught. Right. That's what I was taught. Yeah. And again, I really do love my dad and I want to honor him.

I don't, I'm not at all. I know. You know what I'm saying? We're all wrong. It's hard when you talk about your family in a sense when you're opening up all of this. Because I had fear about my parents in the book stuff. I don't want to be due a disservice to them. Exactly. Did everything they could. They raised me the best they could. Absolutely. So I appreciate what you're saying. Yeah, there's that balance of like honoring your story while honoring the people that aren't choosing to be in the public eye. So all that's said. Well said. But basically, you know, there was that and then there were other people and I would get screamed at by like my friend's mom. There's this one woman who really just hated me. And she would,

anytime I cried would just like be so mean to me. So I was like almost traumatized because anytime I was in my most vulnerable state, I was being attacked and shut down and embarrassed. For the very thing that you, that makes who you are. Exactly. And that's tough. Yes. So I went for a years without crying. And then I was in this show, Bridgetteribithia, the musical. And if you don't know, at the end of the show, the character has to grieve for 20 minutes straight on stage. And so I went from being told I can't cry. And then also, I beat myself up every night, but you can't cry. Like, stop doing it. I was so mean to myself because I was so embarrassed and I hated that it made me vulnerable. And so I had beat myself up for so long that I stopped crying for years. I get this

show and now I'm supposed to cry for 20 minutes every night. And, um, I was. And, um, I had beat myself up for so long. I And so I would literally sit and watch YouTube, try not to cry challenge videos and just be like, it's okay, you can cry, it's okay. I would just like try to open. I didn't even know those videos. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cry compilation, whatever. He's like emotional like commercials or whatever. Anyways. So eventually it took me weeks, but eventually it kind of cracked and I was able to cry. And it wasn't easy and it wasn't consistent, but I at least was tapping back into that energy. And the same woman that was bullying me for crying came up to me in tears and was so. grateful and so proud of my performance and how awesome it was that I was able to be so emotional. And in my head, I'm like, you're the reason I didn't cry for years. But again, there's a chapter. I know, right? It's pretty ironic. I say, I'm like, so under the context of like a show, it's totally okay. And it's actually beautiful to cry. But in real life, it's like, I know, no, no, yeah. But, you know, I talk about how I used to look at it as a setback. And now it's my superpower.

So, yeah, I mean, again, I think this myth that men shouldn't cry is actually why we have toxic masculinity. I mean, it's one of the reasons because what happens is you stop crying long enough and then if you don't feel the bad, you don't feel the good, you lose your sensitivity. So now when you hurt somebody, you don't even feel it because if my hand is numb and I bang it on a wall, I'm not going to even realize that it's hurt. I could crush my hand. If it was numb, I wouldn't matter. And so when your heart is numb, then you hurt other people and you don't feel the effects of that because you don't feel anything. So you think they don't feel anything. And you're just a reckless. It's almost sociopathic. Yeah. I mean, it's really, it's really, it's,

It's dangerous to not feel. So I think one of the cures to this disease that is toxic masculinity is encouraging and cultivating space where men are not just allowed to cry, but encouraged to cry. And I think that this whole stigma is so lame. It's so lame and I hate it. And it's like the most strong men I know are the most emotional, vulnerable. Love you. You know, if your masculinity is.

like threatened by tears. Like you're you got the wrong idea of what it means to be a man. Soft is strong. And I think what's cool is we're in a position now to change that. Yeah, absolutely. To help talk about that publicly and hopefully shift that conversation. Again, one of the benefits of social media is that we can use it for good. Kind of digging into the eating of it all and some of the food things and just how you're your appearance. Like you're a good looking guy. Like you're on a very popular show. You're basically being evaluated for how you live.

look. Talk to me about that feeling of like, I don't know, you're supposed to be a good looking guy. You're supposed to feel strong and like maybe what's going on inside. Don't feel like that. Absolutely. Or even just the perception that like you're this Hollywood model type, but like you're human, you know? Totally. I mean, I think, I think again, I talk about how the, in the entertainment industry, you are the product. Yes. And so it's different when you create something and you have a separation from it, whereas you are the product. And so that can be awesome when you feel really good and when you're healthy and when you're in your rhythm. But when you are going through hell and you're not, you're barely able to get through a day, but you have to still show up on set and

and be seen for every imperfection, every crack crevice, every double chin. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I do wear a little bit of touch up here on these lights because I'm still very self-conscious. Sure. What being in the public eye has done is it's forced me to have to face every insecurity, every shadow because a lot of it's all out there. And you have no option but to be confronted with that. And obviously some people that can really cripple them and whatnot. But for me, it's actually led to more freedom and more not having to identify with that. But I mean, there's been so many times where like, you know, I walk outside and I'm so concerned with how I look. And, you know, like I said, I was so concerned looking cool. I forgot to have any fun. And I think like you could say the same.

I was so concerned with looking good. I forgot to have any fun. And you kind of miss the meaning of life. if you're so caught up in vanity. And I think that we care so much about fleeting things. All right, we're getting to the end here. I have just a couple more things I wanted to kind of chat through. And something just forgiving yourself. Yeah. It's been a struggle for me.

You know, I'm my own worst enemy. You've talked about that self-talk. And I'm still at times. And I even have friends in my like, dude, you are so hard on yourself. Have you forgiven yourself? Talk us through the forgiveness piece in your recovery and how you've been vocalizing all that. Because I think there's something I can be able to learn.

Yeah, look, I'm still figuring it out. I think it's a daily decision and it's something that I really am still trying to learn. I mean, there's two ways to get better. There's whipping yourself into shape or there's inviting yourself into an alternative route. And I don't know about you, but whipping myself has only ever caused me more harm because then you're suffering even more and then that suffering leads you to do things that are harmful to yourself and others, which then makes it harder for you to forgive yourself. which then makes you more upset at yourself, which then makes you more uncomfortable, which then makes you do more things that hurt people. And so the way you stop that cycle is, is compassion, grace, accountability, and almost encouraging yourself in the right direction. And so even little things, like, bro, I mean, like, I will like drop something and I'll be, you idiot. Like instantly, and I go, uh-uh, we're not doing that anymore. We're not doing that. That's why. This is so helpful because I even say sorry a lot. Yeah, right, right. The most meaningless, there's no need to say sorry, but it's like a trigger response.

And like years of just, that's what I felt like, you know, I needed to say. And you talk about something like writing a letter to yourself. Yeah. And forgiving yourself. Yes. Honestly, I need to do that. Yeah, yeah. Let's do it right now.

I mean, you be shut, right? In the sort of recovery process, right, you start to look at all the ways that you've hurt others and you start to reflect on those. And obviously, like, it's scary, but ideally it leads to making some phone calls, you know? And there's still probably some people I got a call. But, you know, yeah. Same. But still, that's part of the process, right? And so I had been really focusing on all these ways in which I heard other people.

And I rented a boat in Marina del Rey by myself, like this tiny little boat. I love a boat, by the way. That's like my happy ways. But I... You should name your first boat, the rookie. Yeah, I love that. I love it. A little dingy, the rookie.

I'm going around the marina, and I just get this idea and in realization that I haven't apologized to myself. And I'm a human being, just as anyone. else's. And so I pulled out my notes app and I just said, dear me, I'm sorry. And literally, bro, I don't know if I've cried that much in my life. I was weeping. Poor people going by, right? I just saw this dude alone and a duffy like, like wailing, bro. I was, I was, I was, whaling just sitting there like, oh, I'm sorry. And I was just like all these things, you know, I'm sorry for abusing you. I'm sorry for making you throw up. I'm sorry for holding you holding you in contempt. I'm sorry for making you not cry. I'm sorry. All these different things.

It was just like an endless stream of, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for trying to kill you. I'm sorry for, the list goes on and on and on. And it was really a beautiful thing. But funnily enough, there's another chapter in the book where I say, Dear Me, I Forgive You, and I don't hold the sins of your youth against you any longer. Go and be free. Some version of that. I'm not quoting it perfectly. But essentially, that came two years after the Dear Me, I'm Sorry, as I was finishing, the book, I realized that there was still in ways in which I hadn't forgiven myself. And of course, there are still ways. But, you know, I was able to come to that conclusion. So there was a two-year gap between, Dear Me, I'm sorry, and Dear Me, I forgive you. But that was a journey and a process.

And we're in a much better spot now. No, that's so beautiful. We should all be rookies in different things at different times. Right now, I'm a rookie author, and it's actually terrifying. I mean, you know, Carly knows, I got on the phone with her a week ago today and was absolutely losing my shit. Thank you for saying this because I have lost my shit with my producer Annie, not on her, but just like venting, just like these feelings of like, holy shit, this is coming out. Absolutely. No, yeah. I mean, I was an absolute mess.

And so, again, right now, right now I'm a rookie author. You know, I think who knows what I'll be tomorrow in terms of some sort of rookie something. But, you know, I think ideally you don't stay stagnant and you keep trying new things and taking new risks and whatnot. And so, well said. Excuse me. There you're good. You know what yawning means? Like, biological.

It's a release, right? Well, it's your body's paying attention. People take it as like a, you're not like focusing. It actually, your body's showing the other person. You're actually paying more attention because you're yawning. Like your body's trying to stay awake. I'm going to use that because if I yawn and some of those. People get annoyed when you yawn in front of them.

Like, oh, you're not listening. No, it's actually like endearing because like they're trying to. Yeah. I think yawning is also your body getting out of a state of flight or flight and a rest a lot of times. That's why you yawn and you're falling asleep. Your body's like calming down. So if anything, it's a compliment that when I'm talking to someone, I'm feeling

regulated. Yes. Your body's alive. The second someone says, oh, I'm boring you. I'm like, get out of here, bro. I'm like, it's a compliment. But no, sorry. Well, we talked about the concept of more life.

What is giving you more life right now? You know, moving back to New York, I was in LA for a few years. And I had a really awesome house that I was renting backyard, hot tub. I had a lot of awesome stuff. And I'm not saying it was a bad time my life, but I very much got stuck and I got stagnant. And I stopped trying new things. And even I dated a girl for a little while, and we never did anything fun. We just stayed home.

And it was my fault. I just didn't want to go outside. I didn't want to meet new people. I didn't want adventure. I just got very stuck. And so then moving back to New York, it kind of broken me out of that. And I just, I feel like I've learned the balance of, like, work hard, play hard, sleep hard. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I just have been really enjoying life. And I've been, you know, going to jazz, going to dance. I've been, you know, having so many great friendships. I've been staying up till 7 in the morning and then sleeping for two days. And obviously I get the privilege of that because my job right now is relatively flexible. But regardless, I've been just trying to like soak in and just like dive into the richness of life. And I think that in the healing journey, it's really easy to get stuck in this mode of like, I'm going to heal and I got to get to this place or whatever. When it's like, maybe you just need to laugh.

Maybe you need to have fun. And that's what I try to remember too. because again, all this stuff is great. Doing the hard work is awesome and necessary and there are very real serious things in life. But at the same time, there is joy and wonder and laughter and connection and community. And we are wired, like we said,

for community and connection. What I love about New York is that you walk everywhere. And so you process not just your food when you're digesting, but you process your emotions, you know, like walking is so good for the soul. Walking and running. And running. Which, by the way, in November.

We're going to plug it. Joshua's running the New York City Marathon in the fall. I guess we're here. And I'm running the New York City Marital Falls. We'll see you out there. There's no backing out now. But movements and motion and walking, cycling, biking, swimming, running. Yeah.

And I think that right now we live in a generation that is they kind of live in this fell reality, right? I mean, we have like social media. And by the way, I think there is a certain amount of social media that's awesome and healthy. I have a 20-minute timer for Instagram and TikTok. I mean, dude, I don't even want to know the amount of like probably years at this point. years because I got a phone when I was 12. The amount of years that I've lost on social media, it's actually pretty devastating to think about.

And so I don't want to waste any more time. I mean, I probably will, but I don't want to waste too much more time. You're being mindful of it. I think the more you're mindful and opening up about it and you're doing steps to limit that access for 20 minutes, which is really important for people to hear because I think people don't realize you can put restrictions on your social.

Absolutely. If you want to. Yeah. And I think that's partially the whole, you know, the binge eating and then throwing up is I've had this like, all or nothing mentality where I'm either going to get plastered drunk or I got to be completely sober. It's like, and again, I'm not encouraging this for anyone, but you can find a balance of having, some people can't find a balance and they need to cut it off completely.

But that sobriety and recovery is kind of what it's about. It's riding that balance wave. You're going to have some lows. You might have some highs. But in the past, before that, it was high or low. It was one or the other. Right. Now it's like.

Yeah. You kind of ride the wave. Yeah. And like you can have a bite of cake, you know, and then put it down. So that's what I'm learning is the balance of life. I think maybe that's the answer. to your question, very long-winded way getting there. And so instead of feeling numb and stuck, I've been living my life to the fullest. I'm maybe the happiest I've ever been. It's beautiful to

see. You can see a lot of times when people on the exterior, like you have a glow. You have a positive energy about you, but it's clear you're doing the work on the inside, which is a reflection, obviously on the outside, which you can kind of tell when people are at that point and like where they are. And I feel like, I'm getting closer to that where people are like, you look happy and healthy. I'm like, well, I've done a lot of work on the inside. Yeah. But when I first got sober, I might have been healthy on the exterior, but inside I was still emotional and dry drunk.

I had all these things I hadn't worked through. But you're a great example of, I think, people seeing, going through really tragic, difficult things. Yeah. But where you are now, trying to help other people, but live your life to the fullest. But what you're sharing is so powerful. And I just appreciate you, applaud you for all that you're doing. You're helping people.

But more importantly, you helped yourself. And you shared that story out loud, which anybody who does that is like one of my favorite people. Well, it's all rising tides. You know, I had a breakthrough today. Yeah. To me, like, I'm so grateful for that. Wow.

honored that you've opened up and take those steps to share really difficult things. Because I think as men, especially, it's things that we need to be more open about so other people can hear and give those men confidence to talk about their sensitivities or talk about those feelings. Absolutely. Because we just don't. And I hope we can maybe make some change. Yes. One step at a time. Yes, sir.

One conversation at a time. I couldn't be more excited. Rookie, I got a copy of my own. I'm actually going to hope to get you to sign. Of course. But I say that if I were to die today and my life impact were to be summed up into one thing, I'd want it to be this book. And I think that that would be satisfactory to me, which might sound dramatic.

But it's really, it's everything I could ever offer the world so far. Yeah. In terms of. Do you have another book in you? Oh, are you kidding? We're already working on it. I'm almost done with it. Well, if you haven't picked up the rookie yet, definitely pick it up, guys.

Joshua Bassett. Thank you for coming in. Thank you so much. pleasure to talk to you. I'm honored that you took the time. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you. And thank you guys for being here today on More Life. Check us out next time here at Softbar and Greenpoint Brooklyn. Can't wait to share more. We love you guys. And next time you're close to giving out, remember that love is worth living for. Joshua Bassett. Thank you, brother. Yes, sir. Cheers. Thank you. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures.

This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz, and recorded at Softbar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino. Set design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. And a special thanks to Alison Shano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time. Well, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up?

That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.