More Life with Carl Radke - Next Gen NYC's Ava Dash on Finding Independence, Owning Mistakes, and Forgiving Her Parents

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

Ava Dash grew up with two seriously accomplished parents, but from a young age, she was determined to build a life and identity of her own. The Ford model and Bravo Next Gen NYC star sits down with Carl for an honest conversation about fighting for her independence, growing up fast, and learning to see her parents — hip-hop legend Damon Dash and fashion designer Rachel Roy — as people rather than just her parents. Ava opens up about her parents’ divorce, taking on a “second mom” role to her younger siblings, and the moment she realized that becoming financially independent changed her relationship with her dad. She also talks about learning to forgive, letting go of grudges, and finding peace with the things she can’t change. Plus, Ava gets candid about what she’s learned from being on reality TV, owning a mistake from Season 1, navigating a breakup in front of the cameras, what she’s looking for in her next relationship, and the Bravolebrity who gave her advice along the way. And, of course, she shares some behind-the-scenes Next Gen NYC goss. Sponsors: AG1: For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at DRINKAG1.com/RADKE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke, and welcome to More Life. Today's episode, we've got Ava Dash, yes, the star of Next Gen and my C. They're in season two. She's a Ford model. She's a creator. She's an activist. She's a friend. I'm so excited to have her here. We're going to be diving in here at SoftBarr in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Ava Dash, welcome to More Life. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here.

So excited. I'm just glad you're here at Softbar. Got to know you a little bit over the last few months. So I'm really excited to talk to you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm Just so you guys know, I had to cancel on Ava because I was stuck in Cincinnati, Ohio. I was at a golf outing, charity golf outing. You're so fine. It worked out better. I got to the gate and they announced canceled. And she's like, there are no more flights with us today. So I'd like go back, get my baggage claim.

That's honestly awful. It's totally fine. Thanks for being so cool about rescheduling. So as you might have known, and you've seen some clips of More Life, I have a thing. Basically, one of my favorite sayings is More Life. Is that from Drake? Yeah. You know this.

So Drake's more like. Very 2016 of you. Exactly. I love that album. And at the time when we were filming Summerhouse, I was wasted a lot and you're doing crazy things. And I would just drunkenly say more life. Like no stress, more life.

And it became a thing. But as I've gotten sober and got my shit together, it's something I kind of look at as more of like a mantra for living your life to the fullest, taking advantage of your opportunities, you know, squeezing out every little drop of life. I love that. But I'm curious, Ava, do you have a saying that you go by? that you blurt out to your friends. Yeah, all the time.

Honestly, like, everything happens as it's meant to. I think everything is coming for me that's meant for me and things that aren't meant for me don't come. I love that. And I think, like, in my industry of modeling and content creating, there's a lot of rejection that comes with that. And that's, like, not necessarily a bad thing. Like, when I get a no, it doesn't make me feel bad about myself.

It's like, I know that that wasn't meant for me. I wasn't right for that job, whatever. and it can be hard to like hear that all the time. But I think, yeah, what's meant for you is coming. Believe it or not, I had a modeling, brief modeling. Oh, love. I got no 99% of the time. I got like one or two things.

If you got every job, you'd have no time. Exactly. But the no, when you're like young, still figuring out who you are, gaining your own self-confidence. Yeah. Like, were you always that confident or did you like grow into that? I think a part of me has always been confident. My family is very like, we say I love you all the time. I'm like we really pour love into each other.

And so I think I always had a little bit of like natural self-confidence, but definitely starting out early on. Like I've been told no from many modeling agencies. Like it took a while for me to get to the space I am with my team. At what point did you decide or think that you wanted to go into modeling? Definitely in high school. My parents never gave me an allowance. And so I worked at Brandy Melville.

Hell yeah. What that is. Do you know Brandy? It's a retail star, right? Yeah, yeah. In L.A. for $12 an hour. It was awful. I like love.

brandy but like the pay really bad. Retail is I have so much respect for our retail workers. It's not really bad. Yeah and so when I realized I could go on set and make like two thousand dollars in one day that was like I thought that was the coolest thing ever. Did so anybody ever come into Brandy Millville and be like hey you should be a model all the time. Oh really? So they really hire girls that like were model-ish. Yeah and I don't there's you know some backlash with that but it is what it is and and model agents would come in and out all the time. And so I'm pretty sure a model agent came in and was like,

gave me the card and we called it. And I signed with them. And then I ended up signing with like a bigger agency later. I love it. But yeah. I mean, a lot of people know you as Damon Dash and Rachel Roy's daughter. Yeah. What do they miss about you?

Not your parents, but like people assume they know you because of your parents. So what do they completely miss about Ava Dash, just Ava Dash? I think because both of my parents are like such big personalities, people expect that I'm going to be the same way. And I do have a big personality once you get to know me. Like I'm not like so outgoing on the first meeting. You're like a cool cucumber. Yeah.

Like you're very like you have a good confident present. Yeah. Like I'll sit. And if you want to come and say hi to me, then we'll chat. But I'm not like being class clown like running around. You know, so I think people expect that I'm going to also have that same sort of energy that my parents do. And then I don't.

And then like, wait, she's okay? Yeah. Like, does she hate me? Like what's going on? I'm like, no, no. I'm just like, I don't know. I'm just a chiller. I've always been this way. The first time I actually like remember talking to you was at the standard beer garden.

This is back in March. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which actually turned into a more famous brunch later in the night because of other things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I remember talking to you that day and I remember you were just so cool and confident and chill. Sometimes you meet people in reality TV. Yeah. You never know what you're going to get.

Yeah. I was always impressed by just how you carried yourself. Thank you. And I thought the same with you. I thought you were so sweet and like welcoming and you were like, come to the The Summer House next day. I told Ava, I'm like, hey, so what are you doing the first weekend? You better be coming.

Because we were at Palm Tree Festival, or maybe a couple weekends before the summer got started officially. Yeah. So Ava was out at the Palm Tree Festival. I was out there with Kyle and some other friends. And I remember being like, we have to have Ava coming out to the house. Yeah. Have to. To give a little tease, you might see Ava on next season of Summer House.

Maybe. Maybe. I hope. Yeah, I hope so. It's going to be there. Your parents are obviously incredibly successful. I'm curious, like, I mean, I was a huge Jay-Z fan. Really?

This is just a random question I have for you. It's something I've thought for a long time. Did your dad do the skits on Jay-Z's albums? Like, did he do the voices? I don't know. Like probably. In some of the early Jay-Z albums, like in between a song. Like at the beginning, it almost sounds like your dad doing accent.

I need to listen. Can we listen to it? Because I'll be able to hear my dad's voice. Can't knock the hustle. Yeah. Or it's like, hold on. Because that's very his energy. to like do these like random ad-libs and stuff like that, like he would.

But yeah, the earlier like 90s was my dad's era. Because it's something I've been thinking about for a long time. No one's ever asked me that before. This is really good, by the way. Is that your dad? That's not my dad's voice. Oh, that's my dad. That's my dad.

That's your dad. That's your dad. Ain't no rapper telling me. Ain't no rapper. Okay. Thank you. My childhood dreams have been met. Thank you for answering that. Because I'm a huge rap fan.

I always love skits. and like the in between the songs. I became obsessed with New York rap culture in like fifth and sixth grade. So thank you for answering that. Of course. Got it. So what was your childhood actually like?

I mean, I would imagine. I mean, it was so much fun. My mom and dad were both working like constantly at that time. So it was like. Did they bring you to stuff? Yeah. It was like going to my mom's office and like seeing her be like the boss with the corner office and like people coming in very like devil wears Prada

and like me in the corner like drawing and just like watching like going to concerts with my dad, fashion shows, fittings. Like, yeah, it was very, it was very cool. So you had a pretty normal childhood. Just so normal. I'm just like everyone else. Growing up with your such, you know, your parents are powerful and been successful. Like, did you have that pressure to, like, accomplish something? Or did you feel that pressure? I definitely did feel that pressure, but my parents were so, like, do what makes you happy. And, you know, my mom really wanted me to go to college. My dad really didn't want me to go to college. So there was like a push and a pull. What was the argument against college? My dad was,

like, are you really going to take business advice from someone who's never started a business? I love your dad for that. You know what? Fair. But I wasn't taking business classes. So I was like, you know, it different. And he was like, I would rather give you however much, you know, college money, college tuition. I'd rather give that to you and you start a business. And I was like, I don't, I'm 18. I don't know what I want to do. Like, even if you gave me that amount of money, what would I do with it? I have no idea. And it was like, I felt really overwhelmed. And my mom was just like, you are going to be so appreciative that you have your, degree and like she knew I was already modeling at that time and she knew that that's what I wanted

to pursue and she just felt that like having the confidence of like having a degree and putting in that work would make me so much more confident walking into a room walking into different spaces and feeling like I deserve to be there and not just like I was there because I was born into it or whatever yeah exactly like I actually have something to say and bring to the table I love that and also like at 18 I don't I don't know anything like you know I needed that experience of like living alone, paying bills for the first time. Yeah. And figuring, doing your own laundry.

Yeah, exactly. Is there ever a time that you wanted to distance yourself from the family name? No, I think I am so grateful to be born into the family. I'm born in too. And it's also, they're not like stuffing things down my throat. Like, I don't have to be in entertainment if I don't want to. I like it and I enjoy it. So I want to.

But it's not like my family really like pressured me to do exactly what they do. I feel like a lot of people, though, with parents, you know, of your parents' stature, you assume that that's like what happened. you know, like that the pressure's put on you and they expect you to build a career in music or in fashion or whatever it is. To be fair, I think my dad's dream would be for me to be a pop star.

Not too late, Ava. Yeah, it's never too late. We could get a Jesse Solomon, Ava Dash collab. Yeah, that would be really cute. Kyle Cook could DJ at his next show. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'll be the guy celebrating and happy to be there.

I love that. Yeah, when I was a kid, my punishment, when I would get in trouble for my dad was I had to make a song. And I was so shy as a kid, too. So I hated it. And I did not like going into the studio and having to be there like arms cross. And he'd have like Kanye's producers, like songwriters.

Because I'd be like, okay, like if you want me to do this, like I'm not participating other than like actually opening my mouth and singing on the microphone. So like you have to figure everything out. So you actually made songs. I have an album of songs I had to make when I was in trouble. I have busted turning up when my dad caught me drinking in his basement. That is actually kind of cool. I mean, the parenting of it all, like to try and... Yeah, like, my dad, like, being like,

this is what her punishment's going to be. I think he thought I would, like, do it and then fall in love with it. Yeah, like, it would inspire you to, like, want to participate. Yeah, but instead it just made me think, like, fuck that. Like, I don't want it to be a chore. Well, I was just say, like, I would... I mean, your dad obviously can flex a few things to open that door for you if you wanted. Yeah.

Was there a time where, like, you just didn't want your dad's access and you just wanted to be recognized for just you? Yeah, I think there were times when my dad and I weren't really getting along. Honestly, it took until I was probably like 21 for me and my dad to have as strong a bond as we do now. And I think it was mostly like taking financials out of it. Like at that point, he wasn't paying from anything for me anymore. And I was able to just like be around him in the capacity of like you're my dad and I want to be here because I love you and I want to hang out with you. Not because I feel like I have to.

Not because you're holding something over my head. Not because you're not going to pay my car bill if I don't, you know. Yeah. Like controlling on us. Yeah. So you were able to kind of gain your own independence, which is. I mean, you made that conscious choice to like... Yeah.

I was like modeling. Okay, I can get paid. I can pay my own bills. No one can tell me what to do. Like being independent for me has always been so important. I love that. August is that weird stretch where it's still hot out, but you can feel the fall coming. And honestly, the first place I hit reset is my closet.

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That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca. Obviously, I can't imagine, you know, growing up in a household with your dad, you know, some of the resources, but then wanting to have your own story and your own thing. I'm curious, like, at this point, I'm from a family of divorce.

You know, my parents were married 34 years. Oh, wow. And then my dad started seeing someone else. They separated and then ultimately got divorced. But I was in my early 30s when I found out. Okay. And it fucked me out. Really?

Because I was, you know, you grew up. We didn't expect it. No, and you grew up in a household for all those years. After 34, you can't stick around. Yeah, you're not thinking about it anymore. Like, my parents are locked. Yeah, they're good. Yeah. So I really struggled with the divorce for a few years because I was in the middle. I really wanted to support my mom because my dad didn't, I was really angry at my dad. So what you were sharing about your dad, like for me, I didn't talk to my dad for almost two, three years. Yeah, same. And it was really hard because I wanted to, but I didn't know how. And I was angry. I had resentment. meant. And it took some time to like work through that. But I'm so glad I did because I'm the closest

I've ever been with my dad. And I'm curious like that time period for you not talking to your dad. Like what was that like? It was hard. And I have a younger sister who's eight years younger than me. So I feel like she's like my daughter. So my parents were going through a custody battle about her. I was like aged out of it at that point. And so I was in the middle a lot too. My whole life being like when we were up my dad's, I was her babysitter. Like I was the one getting. I was the one You were like almost the leverage. Yeah, exactly. And so when I turned like 16, 17, I was just like, you know what?

You guys deal. I'm out. I'm going to pay my own bills. You guys like, leave me out of it. When you were young and your parents going through it and now being an adult, like have you been able to reflect on things maybe at the time when you were younger that maybe didn't make sense? Or like, how are you with all of the divorce?

Yeah, I think, well, when my parents were getting a divorce, I was eight. And I don't know if so young. So young. Yeah. I don't know if this is a hot take, but I was so. happy when they got divorced. Like they just, yeah. That's a hot take.

They're just not meant for each other. Like they're not each other's person and they would fight all the time. And I was in the middle. I didn't want to watch that anymore. Like I wanted them to separate. I like begged. I was like, please. It had to be really hard, I would imagine.

Yeah. But something I've always struggled with what you just said. Here is this beautiful human being, daughter, Ava. And then as you're eight years old, you're like, they're not each other's person, but they created you. Right. That's like a conflicting thing in my head. And like I felt that way with my parents when they got divorced.

I'm like, well, what is it? What do I mean now? Like, am I not any? So interesting. I don't think I ever thought about it with like as a reflection of like where I stand. Yeah. But then as I've kind of matured a little bit, like I think people change. There's a variety of factors that can happen.

I mean, obviously people have career stuff. There's family things. There's health. That also I think has a role in some of down the line. And I think it's just like a different time. Like I'm 26 and my mom was 26 when she had me. Can you imagine having a baby? Maybe right now.

Like, no, I just could not imagine being in that place. Like, my dad, he made his first million dollars when he was 19. So, like, they just, I mean, I feel like I grew up really fast, but, like, they were doing adult things. And I still feel like I'm a teenager. You know what I mean? But you're so mature. Like, when you say 26, I'm like, yeah, you look 26, but you don't act 26.

Thank you. I think it's like being an older sibling. Like, I don't know. You had to grow up fast a little bit. Yeah, like I was always second mom. Well, I mean, to your point. second mom. What did you have to take on as a kid that you might not have really been mature enough for? The babysitting of it all, like giving her a bath, making sure she was to bed on time.

Like, I helped my dad potty train her because he was so annoyed that she was still in diapers. And like she didn't, she was so funny because she was like two or three. Like me even having these memories of my sister is like, I feel like that's not really a normal thing. And so there are just like certain things where I just felt like I was like her rock. Sure. When we were not at my mom's. Yeah, you were like the mother figure. when you weren't. And just like also helping her deal with the divorce as like just a baby.

Yeah. I mean, you were. Yeah. You said eight years difference. And that's tough because I think as you grow older, your relationship to that moment could cause other issues or if you never really heal from it or really wrap your arms around it. Because like for me for a while, like I drank to my dad because I was so angry. Yeah. And then I'd call my dad drunk and like yell at him.

That's the only time we did talk. I'd like call him it too in the morning and be like say crazy stuff. Yeah. Because you felt like all the emotions were coming out at that time. Exactly. So at what point did you and your father kind of get to a better place? You said around 21, 22. Yeah.

Becoming an adult paying my own bills. And I think seeing your parents as people and like this is his first time on earth, same with my mom. Yes. They're trying their best and like me thinking like, oh my God, if I had a kid right now, the amount of mistakes or, you know, whatever. Like if I were in their shoes, I would have made the same choices, I have to assume. You're so wise. I had to go to like West Palm Beach. Tony Robbins to learn what you just told me and spent seven days in a conference room. I love that,

though. Because that's how I made amends with my dad. He's seeing him as a person. Human being. My dad had my brother at 23 years old. Yeah. Like that's insane. My dad was 28 or 29 when they had me. When I was fighting with my dad, I was 33 at the time. Yeah. And I'm like, I had to put myself in his shoes. I had to go back and the information he had at that time. Yeah. How they grew up also. Yeah. He did the best they could and forgiving him and realizing he did the best, it's his first time being a parent. So, but I'm, where did you learn that? My parents are both really, like, we're all very vocal, like, with each other. And we all, like, we say our feelings, we get them out. My mom is really close with Deepak Chopra. So I grew up,

like, going to his retreats and like, yeah, yeah. So he's like, I feel like he's like the leader and someone out. But that's such a great philosophy, I think, to have. And I think, And I think anybody who's going to watch this, I hope that could help them. Because there's tons of people who have been through divorce. But that little moment that we talked about, I don't think everybody has that same assessment of their parents. Right. They're still upset or they're assholes or they're. Yeah.

And I think also going through experience, like going through a bad breakup. Now I'm like, damn, I can't imagine going through a breakup with two daughters and, you know, having it be in the public and all the stuff and figuring out where to live and all the things my mom had to deal with going through. her divorce. I can't imagine, you know. So then you start to have a sympathy for your parents. And I think they also both, they're like hard on themselves too. Like they think like, I'm sure they wish that they could have had a relationship. Yeah, made it work and had a relationship that their kids could like look to and aspire to have when in reality I look at the relationship and I know what I don't want, which is still helpful. Because I'm like looking for, you know, I know exactly what I don't want. And when I see it, I'm like, no, no, no. Well, that'll hopefully, you know,

help you find the best match because of that experience you saw in your parents and taking those learnings and taking that experience. And I think it'll work for it. Yeah. Because I feel the same way. Like I look at my parents and I'm like, I'm never going to get married if it's not right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Like I really want to make sure and really believe and feel good about it. I almost was married. I was engaged and it didn't, it wasn't right. Yeah. But I didn't believe in moving forward unless it was fully right because I didn't want to be. I'm sure you're so glad that you like listen to your gut. It was the right decision. Ultimately was a tough. It was a tough. decision. I know some of us saw it on TV and all that, but I think in the end, we're after the fact

was the proof in the pudding. And now you guys are like, we're cool. Yeah, so cool. It was her birthday yesterday. Like, she texted me on my brother's anniversary of his passing. I texted her happy birthday. Like, we're in a really good place. And it took a while to get there, but now you're so, like, you feel so content. We're good. Like, there's like closure and healing, but now we're like moving forward as friends. Everything happens as it's meant to. Damn you, you're good. I'm curious, like, Is there anything you forgave your parents for? Yeah, my mom always says that I, like, even as a kid, I always forgave people for stuff, not because they deserved it necessarily, but because I want to have peace.

Like, I'm not someone that holds on to grudges. When someone shows me who they are, I believe them. But I'm not going to be like, oh, she said this and she said this in the press. And now, now I know, like, that's how you are. Okay, that's fine. Yeah, you got the information now. Yeah. So I think with my parents, like, there wasn't like a specific thing that I, like,

wanted to forgive. But yeah, just in general. Like I don't hold anything against them. I wouldn't be where I am today without everything that's happened in my life. And I'm in such a good spot right now. I've like, I reflect on it all the time. Like where I'm living, what I'm doing, like the mental space I'm in. I dreamed of at certain points in my life. And I'm here. And now you're here. Yeah. How does it feel? Amazing. Well, you look good. You sound good. You're glowing. Speaking of glowing, your model and career seems to be, listen, I think it's every model's dream to be like a Ford model. Yeah, it's an iconic, iconic agency. That, to me, is like, the agency.

Yeah. So at what point did you join the Ford? I joined the Ford team about a year ago. Congrats. Thank you. Big time. Yeah. And I absolutely love my team.

Like I said, I've been rejected from other agencies, and it takes a while to, like, find an agent that, like, really fights for you because you could be at the best agency in the world, but if they don't really fight for you, then it doesn't matter. Yeah, just another headshot. Exactly. And so I just feel really grateful. I did a big shoe. last week. It was Juicy Couture and Crown Royale. Never heard of them. Yeah. And they came out today.

Hell yeah. Just being able to do things like that. It's just like I just feel so grateful. Now in the modeling world, do you have like a focus? Are you like editorial or are you like runway? I'm more editorial. I've never done runway. I'm like that's. You're not tall enough. Yeah, I'm at the lower end. Yeah. I'm 5.9. So the runway girls are usually like 5.11. So interesting. Like I can still, I can do it. I just, I get really nervous. Like that's the one thing that makes me nervous. Yeah. Walking? Yeah.

On NextGen, they love, love to include me tripping. They did this see you. Every single time I trip, they include it. It's been like four different times. Yeah, like they, you know, they have us film the walk-ups. It means they like you. Always trip. But they like you.

But what if I'm on a runway and I trip? Like, I don't know. The season playing back with all these clips of me tripping, like, it's just really not helping. I mean, well, you got to get your feet in order here. Well, you got the split toe thing, maybe that's why. The tabbies. Yeah, maybe that's not helping me. You know that feeling when summer starts.

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Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. All right, I want to switch gears, reality TV. Welcome to the club. Thank you. So tell me about next gen. I was excited to hear last year when everything was kind of coming out with your guys' first season. At first, I was like, oh, damn.

Like, we've got some young blood coming through. It's been so fun, honestly. I think season two, I speak for everyone. I think when I say this, we all felt so much more comfortable, like, in front of the camera, but also with each other and also just opening up. Even the clips I've seen, you can tell. You can, you can, like, feel that. And while filming, I felt that, but now seeing the episodes and, like, how they're edited and everything,

I'm like, yay, it's coming through. And I'm like so happy with like the audience watching it and their reception of it. So yeah, I hope just like each season we just keep getting better and better. Take some time. I mean, you got to punch through that first season is not easy for anybody. Yeah. Is you're all, I mean, I don't even know how your show is exactly filmed. But I know in the Hamptons, we have cameras in the rooms, kitchen everywhere.

Like I couldn't avoid it. Yeah. It was a lot. It's intense. It was intense. Summerhouse. But we leaned on each other and you kind of like learn to kind of trust the producers a little bit. You trust each other.

And you kind of go through the. crazy thing all together. Yeah, you're bonded. By trauma bonded. What was the decision to go on the show? I had been approached about a couple different reality shows the past few years, and I think like two of them I had filmed a sizzle for and they didn't get picked up. And so then this one came along and it was like, okay, might as well just film the sizzle, like, whatever. And then like it got picked up and we were like, oh.

Oh, shit. Like, wait, do we do this? Like what? Yeah, like now we actually are like in it. Did you have any second thoughts? Not really. My dad was like, do it. My mom was like, are you sure?

She's like the voice of reason in my life always. And so, yeah, I just was like, you know what? It's going to bring more opportunities. Why not? Like, let's have some fun. And if I can get paid to hang out and have a tequila soda, like, what are you doing here? Why would I not? My next question I have for you is, how did your family and friends as an example?

I told one of my good guy friends about Summerhouse. I had already signed the contract, sat him down. I had already signed. Yeah. And he said, don't do it. I was like, hey, so I'm going to do this. he's like, no, you can't do it. Your career's done.

And he's like a real good friend. He's like, you can't. I'm like, okay, I understand. You're like, but I'm going to do it. I didn't even tell him in this phase. I'm like, actually, I already did it. That's so funny. Also, like 10, whatever, 11 years ago, it was probably like had such a different stigma.

Oh my God. It's completely shifted. And I think to your point, like even your dad, I think being wise understands and you understood like it's a way to build your brand, build your, you know, your next phase of your career with all of this awareness. But back in 2016, when Summerhouse first started filming, there wasn't really influencer stuff. Not as much. There was like the tummy tea and like diff eyewear.

Timmy tea, yes. Like the sugar bear. Yes. And a few of the girls would do stuff. But like, no, like Bravo at that time, housewives were enormous. The top chef in Project runway. Vanner Pump was massive. Yeah.

Were you worried at all about like behavior or doing anything stupid? I didn't think about it until after it came out. I only thought about like getting too drunk. But then there was one, I don't know, like in the beginning of season one, I did get too drunk. Same here. It happened. I'm sorry to bow that. And I did say something I shouldn't have said.

And that moment, then I was like, okay, fuck. Like, I need to like really realize like what I'm doing. So in the moment you knew you said something wrong, but also later on? Yeah, in the moment, because then the two girls confronted me about it. And I was just like, oh, here we go. I didn't mean, this isn't what I meant to happen. Of course. I was like this.

In the moment, I was like, this wasn't my intention. Like, what am I supposed to do here? Like, I'm not... Well, you're a human being, but you're supposed to just, you're living your life in real time. Yeah. Obviously, there's cameras recording. You're inviting them into your life. But I remind my friends on the show, I'm like, we go through things in real, like, you don't have time to decide or it's like what you're dealing with.

Yeah. It just is what it is. Yeah, and I wasn't close enough with them at that time because we just met on camera and, like, different from you. We're not living in the same house. So we see each other for two hours during film. Yeah, then we go home. I think that makes more, that creates more, that creates more. more friction because of the not thing.

Yeah, we don't get that bonding time unless we like go out of our way to go do that. And we didn't know it was, yeah, it was just too soon. I don't know. Did you tell your parents in advance of you saying that coming out? Yeah, so they were warned. They were warned. They were warned.

I was like, yeah, I shit the bad. See, I didn't know what to warn my mom about that first summer because I didn't remember a lot of it. I mean, I remembered some, but like, my mom would watch supporting her son and then she's like, who is this guy? Yeah, it's also different for you because you don't like go home and then you can like, call your friends and be like, this is what happened.

Like, you're filming like 24-7. Well, did your parents have any reactions to what they saw for season? I mean, my mom was definitely like, you could have just kept your mouth shut. Like, why? And my dad was just like, in his mind, like, no press is bad press. You know what I mean? And he's just like, you know what fuck it. You said what you wanted to say.

You meant it. Stand on it. And I think to being able to reflect whenever that episode aired, did you deal with backlash from what you said? Yes. And I'm imagining that was hard. Yeah, it was hard. And I also, it wasn't like I thought I didn't deserve. It was like fair.

I was like fair. You know what? Well, that's I think true accountability is like you know you really messed up and you understand why. But having to live through that and process it. It's hard not only in the moment when it happened. Watching it back is the hard part. Even harder because it's in a different lens and then you also have all the audience

and the social media and the podcast and the Bravo accounts. It's a lot. Social media of it all. Yeah. It really takes it to a new level. It's shifted some shows, I think in some ways where you have the podcasts, you have the social, which contribute to drama between cast members, but is it always shown during... Yeah, they show the clips on our show.

They'll show the TikTok, show the podcast. Like, in the first episode of second season, I bring up something that Gia said about me on a podcast or whatever. So they show the clip. And then I went on the podcast, this is a Vial podcast. And he was like, I'm so sorry. We didn't mean to be like a source of drama for you guys. And yeah, so they include it all in our show because they wanted to be like Gen Z, you know,

it's like quick cuts and everything's like, fast. I think the main takeaway I had from season one was really just not only is it okay to be vulnerable, but like you have to be on reality TV. And I was coming in like thinking like, oh, I won't do anything wrong. Like I can just, you know, show this one side of myself and and they'll get it. And like, no, I was very, very wrong. I learned I had to just like sort of let all inhibitions go and just like be myself without, you know, thinking about how I was going to be perceived. It's hard. Yeah.

So that was something I really had to learn and I tried to do season two. And I think that that is coming across. But I hope and I mean, we're not like greenlit for season three yet. But like if we do, I will just like, yeah, manifest. Yeah, I'll just continue to just, you know, be myself. And I think like people actually resonate with me when I like take my guard down. So that was something that's not, it's not my first like instinct to like have my guard down. Yeah.

I mean, I think I remember coming into Summer House and I had an eye. idea of what I wanted, I think, to share. And later on, Kyle said this to me. And I think it's really accurate of like the whole thing we go through. And I'm curious what you think. Everything you want to talk about, they don't want you to talk about. Everything you don't want to talk about is exactly what they want you to talk about. Yeah. We were pitched the shows before season one that it was going to be all about work and like us like hustling in the city and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, they show that a little like in the background. But like that's not the foreground. Like they want to hear about our breakups. They want to hear about like the family drama. Like if we,

they want us to like really just break down again. Yeah, the work drama. Your finances. Yeah. Love finances. Love talking about finances. The stakes. Yeah. I learned in my sales career because it was all about hitting quota. And like I was heading good numbers, but they'd always like, what's your quota? And like I had to like answer these financial questions that they can use. Because when people hear, you know, Carl's got to sell two million dollars in June or he's going to get fired. That sounds like a big deal. Yeah. I did say but I did get fired even though I did I did you didn't make quota I didn't make quote it had nothing to do with quota I don't care with anybody out there who thinks

that's something to do with quota it's because I'm on a reality TV show yeah that probably probably didn't help but I'll talk about that another time one of my favorite questions to ask who is the first Bravo Leopardy to reach out to you about you being on next gen or offering any advice because sometimes I've I've taken upon like when I meet someone you are a little bit more season but someone who's new to summer house I kind of try to take them under my wing and yeah i honestly i feel like you've given me so much advice we just filmed our reunion i actually did give eva some you gave me a lot of advice we filmed our reunion recently and they like asked us who gave us most advice and i said car yeah yeah thank you i'm flattered

yeah because i think like even naturally you're just like so nice and like welcoming and like i think you look out for people or at least that's how it feels but yeah you definitely told me like for reunion like watch all the episodes don't don't fast forward watch everything and take notes while you're watching and I did that smart and how did your reunion perform I think it went really well we'll see it doesn't air for another like month or so that's such a weird thing because you had to probably watch a few episodes going into the reunion yeah we had to binge watch a bunch but the audience publicly hasn't seen those yet yeah and you got to hold on to all this for the next two

three weeks yeah yeah it's crazy it's a crazy and we didn't film a reunion season one so I don't know like filming wise I'm like I don't know was it good I think so so I'm the one that gave you advice yeah that was it in here on purpose. I promise you guys. No, I really mean I think you have a sweet personality. I love talking to you and I think when I meet someone who's new in the world we're in, I always try to give like at least a little bit of support or just be someone that they can, if they want to ask a question. Yeah. And I really take pride because it also helps me too. Yeah. Because I've been supported in other ways by people on Bravo in different ways. So I'm glad to hear I've been helpful.

I can't wait to see this reunion. We're going to have to get the clip for more life. of you saying that called me to know. Yeah, you have to. It was a Bravo social, so we'll definitely share. Was there anything that surprised you about watching yourself back? Yes. Other than tripping over yourself everywhere? I can't walk, apparently. Other than like a surface level thing, I realized I really like don't make that many facial expressions. I didn't, I never saw myself in this light. Just a resting chill face. Thank you. Yeah. I've been told RBF. Really? Mm-hmm. All the time. Ever since even high school, I've always been told that. You don't have it. And now watching myself back and like, I see what you were saying.

I see it. She does not have an RBF. No, you do not. I know there's RBFs out there. Really? You're arresting cool face. Okay, yeah. Yeah, so that and then just like the vulnerability thing and like connecting with the cast and more than just a cast way.

Like actual like building friendships with people. It's hard because you got you like you're forced sometimes to have uncomfortable chats and explore things that you're like. That you wouldn't normally have with your friends. And now we're doing. And so you kind of become like. siblings you know like me and my siblings we argue and but we still like you still there's love you're still going to come back together and i think that's actually what i'm glad you said that because for i think at least for my understanding at least what i've seen the best shows that they fight yeah they're

opinionated they get it all out then they reconcile they get over it yeah shows that don't get over stuff and it lingers and it's like a season later and it's still kind of yeah that was another reason season two was like got off to an interesting start because we didn't have a reunion so the first couple episodes, it was so much pent up. That's actually kind of wow. That first day of filming must have been like, yeah. Bitch from last May.

Yeah, and then it's like you're still thinking about that from six months? Yes, I am. Yes, I am. I haven't slept to wink. Thought about it the whole time. I love it. Well, congratulations on all the next gen.

Thank you. I'm really excited for you guys. It's cool to see like another show that takes place in our town, but in a different lens. Yeah. And like, you know, I was young in the city also. And it's cool to hear. Even the bottle service thing from last season, I'm like, That was me like every weekend for the first five years living in New York.

It's relatable. $5,000 tab, $10,000 tab. Go to the box, $10,000. I've lived that. I mean, it's expensive in this city. It's crazy. If you want to have a good time and look cool, it's hard. Okay, I got a few more questions for you.

But this one's going to be fun, dating. Where are you at dating right now? My favorite. There's been a lot of rumors out there and I just have to ask. My dear best friend, Kyle Cook, can you give us any? I know the truth of what you guys have been friendly. It's flirty and just fun. Exactly. And I don't, I've never been single in New York City as an adult until the past couple months. So I'm like truly just like, vibing, having fun. So you're single back on the market. Yeah. Is there, this sounds wrong. Do you have a timeline of like when you're hoping to like settle down? Is that a part of your, you don't seem like a timeline girl. I'm not a timeline girl. I'm not a timeline girl. I, I don't think I'll be like an old mom. I think I'll be like a young hot mouth. So maybe that'll happen. I don't think I'll be like a young hot mouth. So maybe that'll happen.

and soon. But I think, yeah, it would be cool if that happened before I was 30, like finding someone and getting married or whatever. But no. You went through a breakup on the show as well. Yeah. And I also have dealt with that. I mean, can you talk a little bit about navigating that? Yeah. Sometimes the breakup, it happened in real life at a certain time. And now we're reliving it. And now it's going through it again and maybe from a different perspective. Yeah. And my ex was not on the show. So that balance of like wanting to share my life with the, audience and like talk about it with my friends but also protect his privacy but at the same time fuck him because we didn't end on good terms so why am I even protecting him like that was such

like a hard thing for me to navigate while we were filming and so now I'm watching it and I'm like did I say too much like did I not say enough like what but yeah I'm happy with I'm happy with how everything has panned out sure but like watching I mean seven eight months later you're still like oh god what I you know you don't want to like like I get it because when someone is not in the world. Yeah, I don't want to, he didn't sign up for this. You don't want to drag them through it all. Even though it makes it hard for someone like yourself who's opened everything up and is vulnerable and sharing their life.

And then you're living a double life almost with someone who's not. Yeah, especially with season one people telling me like I didn't open up enough and I didn't show up enough. Everyone. Everyone. Screw them. Yeah. But so season two, I really wanted to. But then I also didn't want to like disrespect the boundaries of my relationship. And so there was just like a lot of things.

So honestly, becoming single was. like so helpful even though I didn't want it at the time. It proved that it was, you know, for the best because then I was really able to connect with my friends that were on the show. I was really able to open up in front of cameras and I could just like live and be for me and not like with somebody else that I felt like was trying to like put me in a box. Yeah, you could be your own self. Yeah. I think, I mean, but I do think sometimes with the show like or at least I felt this like that's what they want to see is like who's Ava dating or who's yeah. They wanted it so bad and he didn't I want to be on the show.

Yeah. So do you think your next relationship will have to be someone in the public eye or on another? I don't know. Another Bravo show. Have you thought about that? Because I think about a lot now for many years being in this world. What would be a good fit for me look like? Yeah.

And friends of mine are like, you need to date someone who's very private and chill and not in this world. And I also am like, maybe I, that would work. But I also think I could date someone who's a creator or has a big career, but I could be a supporter. And we have our both independent careers. Yeah. I feel like my husband is probably a private person, but like my next boyfriend doesn't have to be private. I like that. That's what I think.

Print that. What's a non-negotiable for you? I need somebody who... Or after that last relationship. After my last relationship, I need somebody who supports me and doesn't try and dim my light. I need someone who like isn't going to shit on me for being on a reality show and say that it's cringe and say X, Y, and Z. I need someone who's like, you go kill it. Do you walk on that Victoria Secret runway?

Like I want you to do all the things you want to do. And yeah, just like truly be supportive, lead their own life so that they're not just like hanging on. Like you know what I mean? Not codependent. Yeah, not codependent. I've been so codependent in my past relationships. Same. And so like having a full life myself before getting into my next relationship and having him have a full life so that like we can join lives together.

but like we're not co-dependent. And you both can have your own little. Yeah, like I can go to dinner with my friends. You can go with your friends. You have work. I have work. You know, we come together at night and we like can hang out.

But we have our own separate things going on. I like that. I think that's a really good non-negotiable because I mean, you have to go through a relationship. Yeah, I would never have known that I needed that. And I think being young, I mean,

as a young male once in my early 20s, I mean, you're still figuring your shit out and you're jealous of other people's success or you're comparing yourself to how other people's, people are doing. Yeah. Especially I think guys put women down to make themselves feel better. Yeah, I need a man that's not jealous of me.

I want to be the flower. You need a man who's like... He can be the gardener. Water that garden, man. Yeah, exactly. What are you the most proud of in this chapter of your life? I think I'm the most proud of the independence I have now. And like I said before, independence has always been something I really wanted and

prioritized even as a kid. And so, like, I think my younger self would see me today and just be like, damn she's killing it. Like that's what we wanted. I love that. Yeah. So I asked this of all my guess and I don't know if you're ready for this, but the concept obviously of more life. What is giving you more life right now? I mean there's so many things that give me more life, but truly I think my little siblings give me more life. They are who I go to when I'm having a bad day. I have a five-year-old brother and like me and him will sit on FaceTime with each other for hours. And like I want to hang up. or he wants to have.

I'm like, no, no, no, no, like, just stay on. And, like, I'll have the phone up while I'm, like, doing something else. I just think, like, being so much older than them, I truly think of them as, like, my little kids. And, like, I'm like, this must be half of what it feels like to be a mom, like, watching them grow up and, like, have them really look up to me. And I don't know. It just makes me feel so empowered and gives me a sense of responsibility to, like, do well

so that they have a role model that they, you know, can look at. up to. My sister just signed with Ford in L.A., which is my agency. And she just, shout out to Lula. She just got her first job offer. Can you guys do a sister sister campaign? We can. Manifesting that one. Manifesting. She just got her first job offer last night. And so she's calling me like, what are the next steps? What do I have to do? What I have to wear? And like, I didn't have a big sister I could ask those questions too. So like me being able to be that for her, it's just like, it's the best feeling in the world. That's really special. I mean, I almost make you cry when I hear that because it's like, I could cry too. They just, my

siblings of my family, they ground me so much. I don't know what I would do without them. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, I've known you a little bit, but like talking to you, it's really, you're such an amazing person. You've been through tons of stuff, but the way you care yourself and the way you kind of operate is really impressive. Thank you. You should give yourself a lot of credit for the work you put in. I don't talk to 26-year-olds that act like this. Like, I don't, trust me. But I really appreciate you coming on today. Thank you for having me. Anything you want to plug for our audience. I don't know. I just want to say thank you so much for having me. Like this has been the easiest, most chill and also, like, talking about things that actually matter.

Podcasts have ever done. And I really appreciate it. I want to, like, really dive in and give people space to talk about stuff. And I think you're such a, like, safe space for that. I feel like I've told you that so many times. Like, we'll be out and I'm like, I just want, like, a hug. I know. I remember talking to you that one at that concert and you were like, you're just so, I'm like, this is just me.

Yeah, like, he's, like the most calm, like just a good energy. Like, you make me feel so safe. So I appreciate it. I take pride in that. And I'm honored that you feel like. that way. Well, Ava, we'll have to have you back in again. And by the way, we're having our one-year softbar anniversary soon. I'm coming. So I'd love for you to come and I'll send that invitation. Caitlin, make sure we get around the list. Thank you guys for being here today on More Life. We will be

coming back again soon here at Softbar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Check us out. Wherever you get your podcast, like, review, subscribe, Apple, YouTube, Spotify. Give us a shout. We love you guys. Thanks. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel. and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz, and recorded at soft bar studios in Brooklyn, New York.

More Life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino. Set design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. additional support from Abby Sharp and a special thanks to Alison Shano and Joanna Orland.

New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

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