More Life with Carl Radke - Quitting “Mom Wine,” the Myth of Moderation, and Doing It Scared with Suzanne Warye

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

Suzanne Warye has built a community helping women rethink their relationship with alcohol. She joins Carl to talk about her journey from blackout drinking to sobriety, and how watching reality TV helped her see alcohol, and herself, more clearly. A sobriety influencer, host of The Sober Mom Life podcast, and author of The Sober Shift, Suzanne opens up about the myth of moderation, mommy drinking culture, and why “doing it scared” changed everything. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruitflies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen, these little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say, yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. She knows.

How? Did you blouse? No. The Devil Wears Prada 2. He's the movie event 20 years in the making. Honestly, can't with the secrets anymore, so I think we just should tell her. Will you two please spit it out already? This Friday, be the first to experience it only in theaters.

In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility. Oh, because we're a team now. That's a nice story. The Devil Wears Prada 2 in Theaters Friday. Okay, guys, today on the show, we've got an incredible, guest, Suzanne Ware Eye, she is a sobriety influencer. She is a podcaster of the sober mom life, and she is also an author of The Sober Shift. We are coming live today from Softbar here in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Suzanne Ware I, welcome to More Life. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here.

It's great to see you. As you know, this podcast is called More Life. It is one of my favorite sayings, but it's something that I really love and appreciate just the mantra and just kind of, what, you know, what gives you more life or what are things that you repeat daily? So I'm wondering for you, is there something like my saying is more life? Does Suzanne have a daily mantra or something you kind of embody? I do. I think I have a couple, but probably my favorite one is do it scared. Ooh. I love that because I've, I've been afraid to do pretty much everything I've ever done from big, you know, like sitting here with you. Were you afraid of this? I mean, not like, I'm not scared. of you, but nervous, right? It's a big deal. Like, I'm a Bravo fan, Carl. I've been watching for

years. And so this is a big moment for me, right? And I also have OCD. And so I can get in my head a lot. Sure. And my head can really talk me out of some things. It's really good at that. Same. And also quitting drinking, like, I was scared to do that. Everything I've ever done, I've been afraid of. And I just, I think it's very important that I still do it. like not to wait for the absence of fear. So just do it scared. Yes, exactly. Just do it scared.

Don't wait until I'm not scared. But for people who are newer to your world, you know, I've got to know you recently. Obviously, you've done a lot of work in the sober community. Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, I quit drinking almost six years ago. Congrats. Like when I quit drinking, yes, from the most brutal hangover, I was a blackout drinker in in college and in my 20s.

And where did you go to college just for our listeners and watchers? Green Bay. Green Bay. Yeah. It's why I'm a Packers fan, huge Packers fan. I thought I saw something recently about the state of Wisconsin. Yes. The volume of drinking that goes on in the state of Wisconsin.

I think it's one of the highest state consumptions. It's like insane. This is an ongoing joke on my podcast. It's over mom life because people come on and be like, you know, I think, you know, you think that your state or your city drinks a lot, but wait, no, mine actually, which everyone is saying that, which means everyone is drinking a lot. But then, yes, there was proof because there was like this map that came out of the top 100 most like drunk cities in the United States. 97 of them are in Wisconsin.

Oh, my God. Like, the Packers have had a good run. Yeah, right? Our baseball team is the Brewers, right? Like we. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah. How did I miss that one?

Yeah, we love booze. Actually, though, at Lambeau Field for the Packers, we now have a sober. I saw this. Yeah, which I'm like... I saw that recently and I was thinking that such a great idea. Some other NFL teams are starting to try and incorporate some of that. Yeah. I'd love to see like a soft bar though at like a Lambo where it's more elevated and like the

functional drinks and really quality. But it's cool to see like these places making little shifts. Yeah. So how would you describe yourself to our watchers? Like what would you like to say who you are? So I was a blackout drinker in college and in my 20s. And then I got married. I had babies.

And it was a very deliberate choice of mine to say, okay, the party girl days are over. Now I'm going to drink like an adult, right? I'm going to really nail moderation. I'm going to drink red wine, water in between, eat the bread, right, to make sure I'm going to control this thing. And I did. Like, I really did that. I was able to moderate, and I say this in huge quotes, successfully.

I hated it. The shame felt the same. If I had three glasses of wine, it was still, I would wake up what is wrong with you. You were only supposed to have two, right? And it was a constant, like, shame cycle. I, on the last night of drinking at this, like, fancy pajama party, I had just had my third baby. So I hadn't drank in probably a year. Wow.

And I blacked out. And that's something I hadn't done in probably five years. I must have nursed my baby in the night because he was three months old and I was breastfeeding. And I woke up and that realization hit me. And, you know, man, I can take myself back there and just feel that shame. There's such a specific shame when it comes to motherhood and drinking. And really like when alcohol gets in the way of how you're supposed to take care of your baby and nurse. your baby and keep him safe. And so I really spiraled that day into a very familiar place

of the questioning what's wrong with you. Sure. And I had this moment and it really was just a moment of clarity of like crystal clear. Sometimes it's all you need that little. That's all you need. And it was like a just crystal clear moment of you don't have to do this. You can be done. And I think the miracle came when I uttered those words aloud to my husband because normally, yeah, normally I would keep that inside. Would you say that that pajama party hangover was your rock bottom? Yeah. And I- did you do anything crazy at the pajama party that you heard about later? I had to ask. I know. That's the thing, right? But just for your own experience, you just were like, wake up the next morning don't remember. You got this three-month-old. Yeah. You're probably going anxious and stressed and

sad and all the feelings. Totally. And from the outside, it wasn't crazy, right? Yeah. From the outside, no, Suez was fine. Like, we had fun. And then we went home. My kids didn't see me drunk. Like, I could have very easily just kind of mold in the basement, like shoved it down. Yeah. And tried to really make alcohol work, like drink in a more orderly fashion.

Sure. Like, I can do this. And I mean, moderation is something that I tried to explore, you know, early on. When I first was like saying out loud, like, I need to get some help. Yeah. And I worked with a therapist originally. And he's like, let's try moderation. And I was like, sure, that sounds great.

Yeah, I want that. But we're just going to focus on wine. And as you were, everything you're saying about the moderation, I'm like re-remembering, it was painful. It was a nightmare. I'm like, I can only have three now. And then I'd be like pacing my room. Totally.

And then you'd overdo it. And then you'd hung over for a couple days. And then I'm back to like baseline. Yeah. Okay, I'm just going to drink beer this week. It's hell. I think moderation. Moderation for those that really, I think, struggle.

It's actually even worse. Oh, my God. It's so much worse. moderation is this idea that some alcohol is good, that alcohol drinking is a privilege and that we don't want to give it up. Sobrides a punishment, right? And so if you're trying to make that moderation thing work, it is hell because as I see it, alcohol is the problem. And so a little bit of the problem isn't the solution, right? You can't really feel that freedom that comes in sobriety if you're trying to, if you're trying to moderate. I don't want to recommend moderation to people, but something. Sometimes I'm just saying, you know, I think there are folks out there that maybe could potentially have success in the moderation.

But what I've learned for me personally was when you know you can't moderate, that's when you really know. Yeah. And I think I was someone who you could look at from the outside and be like, oh, she's nailing moderation. Because moderation feels like a lot of mental energy. Like, okay, how am I going to drink tonight? How much am I going to drink? Is she having another one? Should I have another one?

Right? It's so much brain power. It takes so much to moderate. I think the brain power part is so I relate to that so much because it's all encompassing and almost debilitating. Just like all you think about is like, okay, I had two. What's my number now? Like it's just a constant fight.

And when you're talking about a brain, you know, you make these rules with a clear brain with no alcohol on your brain. The minute you have a drink, it's a different brain. Like we're talking like lowered impulse control, like horrible decision making. Right? It's literally changing your brain. So then you're making these decisions based on a brain that alcohol has already worked on. And then you're dealing with the shame and the increased cortisol and like lowered serotonin and dopamine the morning after. And all. That parties. Right? It's it's. It's the next day and the day after that I think a lot of people don't give enough credit to alcohol for. You know, people are like, I'm hungover. Okay, cool. That's alcohol's fault. But then like that next night you're angry or ornery. You do. didn't get a great night's sleep. Yeah.

And I just had a tough day. It's like, no, you were drinking yesterday. Yeah. It's part of how I feel sometimes. Totally. Or even if it's like this just hovering dread. Yes. Right?

Where you can't really put your finger on it, but you're just like, okay, looking around looking around at your life, I should be happy. Why do I feel this kind of hovering anxiety or this dread or this kind of just low level home of depression or anxiety? That's the alcohol. Because alcohol is a depression. Yes, exactly. You mentioned thank you for being a fan of Summerhouse, by the way.

Oh, love it. We appreciate you. And since this is a podcast, obviously, the sober mom life, your podcast. But it sounds like you have a segment where you break down reality TV and all the drinking culture that's going on. Yes. I'm sure you've broken down some summerhouse. But what made you want to start commenting on reality TV drinking and the culture? So first of all, I have always loved Bravo.

That is like my escape. What's your favorite Bravo show? And there's no wrong answer here. You mean other than Summer House? It's okay not to say summer. Actually, when I had, I had a surgery and I was like laid up. So I was late to Summer House and I binged like five seasons. I feel like that's how a fair amount of people get.

Oh, and I was like in. I was like, oh my gosh. So you went with season one? Oh yeah. Okay, good. Season one. That's how I recommend anybody to really. I got to go to the first season.

I saw Carl 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. I saw like all of that. I joke around. I'm 0.0 now. That's so good. Oh, I love that. We're all call free. Like factory settings.

Exactly. Right back down to the reset. That's great. You guys know on this podcast, I talk a lot about doing the work, showing up for yourself, taking care of your mental health, and just trying to live a more balanced life day by day. And something I've learned along the way is that sometimes you need more support than just pushing through things on your own. If what you're navigating is more than just a rough patch, it might be worth exploring psychiatric care as part of your routine too. That's where tachiatry comes in. Psychiatry is a 100% online psychiatric practice that provides comprehensive evaluations,

diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for a range of mental health conditions and more. And this is the key. It's psychiatry. So you're meeting with a licensed medical provider who can diagnose and prescribe medication when it's appropriate and who works with you to build a personalized, evidence-based treatment plan. They have over 600 clinicians and they accept major insurers so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying for out-of-pocket network care. Getting started is also really straightforward. You can complete a short online assessment, get matched with clinicians who fit your needs, and you can schedule your first visit in just a few days. More than 300,000 patients have already found care through tachiatry.

If you've been thinking about taking the next step in your mental health, this could be a really helpful. option to look into. Head to tachiatry.com slash life and complete the short assessment to get matched with an in network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's tachiatry.com slash life to get matched in minutes. My favorite, I love Salt Lake too. Salt Lake, I think, is probably the premium of the crop right now in Bravo. I mean, all the women on that show are giving everything.

I've actually met a few of them over the years. I got to know Bronwyn at BravoCon. She's awesome. My favorite. Super cool. Salt Lake's killer. Yes. What was the first show you started breaking down on reality TV?

So, yes, it's the sober mom life. My friend Katie and I, who's involved in the Bravo world on the like kind of backside of it. And so she's got some insight that she brings. Yeah, she brings some. Yeah, we started, I think, with Vanderpump and maybe with Bev Hills. I just always. The Vanderpump's a good, I mean, it starts at a bar.

Yes. It's based on a foundation of a couple bars and restaurants. And when you have Jackson, like, there's a lot to talk about there. When you have some folks that have opened up on, I mean, I'm closer with Lala. Yes, you have Lala. Even James has had, you know, his ups and downs. I know Jax, obviously, but alcohol is definitely a central figure in the Vanner Pump. I think what really got interesting is, well, I would get some pushback because I've always

loved Bravo and I've always shared it on Instagram and talked about it. And when I stopped drinking and continue to watch and love it, people were like, How can you watch these shows that glamorize alcohol? Was it triggering for you? Was it triggering for you? No, I loved it because I don't think Bravo romanticizes alcohol. I think, yes, some shows are alcohol soaked, but we do see the effects of alcohol and the destruction it brings. We see it pretty clearly.

And so it did, like, scratch this itch that I had. I don't like drama in my life. I love to watch it. I love to watch it. Oh, man. makes it. I guess you're welcome. I know. Thank you. Like I was able to, from the safety of my home, watch people. And then below deck is one too that you can really see they're working, they're working, they're working all day. And they're just counting down to that night where they can

go out and go hard and they get wasted. And then the next morning, almost without fail, they all say, oh my God, I'm never drinking again until then after the next charter. Right? Like you see this pattern very clearly. And so Katie and I started talking about it because people were talking about it. Kyle quit drinking, how, you know, her friends dealt with her quitting drinking and they were really kind of pressuring her to start drinking. And they were like, well, this is just a phase. And it's just such an interesting thing, Craig and Chep on Southern Charms. So, and then you, we did talk about you and Lindsay and how can you be in a relationship. You know, how does that go if one person's drinking if one person's not. There were very real things happening and that you guys were talking

about alcohol and sobriety. So then we were talking about you talking about it. I love it. No, I mean, it's been cool over the lot. I mean, being on Bravo for 10 years, even since I've started and just some of certain storylines or things that are become more prominent. I mean, obviously, mental health, addiction stories, those are have risen to the top in some ways, but there are a lot of those stories going on. Yeah. And I've even seen in the past where I, To me, it's pretty obvious what's happening for someone, but then you're not getting that honesty from that person on it. And that's been the juxtaposition I've always found interesting is for some people, it's like, I'm pretty clear what's going on here. Right. And when you quit drinking, right, you're kind of seeing this with clear eyes now.

Oh, my gosh. I went back and watched some older episodes sober again. What I would used to do is watch Summer House episodes drunk and on Coke. Yeah. I would even blow lines while watching episodes on whatever night of the week it was back. earlier seasons because that's how I dealt with the shame and uncomfort with blacking out on TV. Yeah. But looking back on it sober, and even this past summer, there were some clips that got rebirthed online of like seasons three and four where I was still drinking. And I'm like, oh my God, it's like eye-opening to see the, you see patterns, you see behavior. Yeah.

But I'm wondering for you like, what are the patterns you see when alcohol becomes kind of a character on the show? Oh, what are the patterns? I mean, not only, you, you see, you know, And you can just see this even in your regular life, right? Not only on reality TV, but I think it's very rare that we are as an adult or sober in front of drunk people. Like that doesn't really happen. And people say, well, yes, in pregnancy, pregnancy is different. It's very different. You've, you kind of long for that, right?

You're like, oh, I'm missing out on the drinking. So then you see it in a different lens. But really witnessing alcohol coming. You see the volatility. you see not only the sloppiness and that it's it really makes somebody not attractive. I mean, it does. It brings out some of their worst characteristics. Yes.

And anger and, you know, explosiveness. Like, we see these things happening. And then it's always followed by shame. It's the shame part that is always so heartbreaking to me. Yeah. Because shame really requires like a heaping dose of compassion for ourselves at the at the moment when we feel like we deserve it the least, that's when I always want to reach in and be like,

that's not you. That was the alcohol. That's not you. So I'll say in earlier seasons when I partied really hard the next day, I'd be like so depressed and anxious just because of the alcohol. And then, oh, by the way, I said something insane, did something insane. And this is going to be a major thing. Yeah.

And even if you have grown since that, right? I can't imagine like you now, like going back and sitting down and watching that. You have to have so much compassion for yourself for where you are now. And you're like, I mean, even probably from last summer, like the growth that you've had over, right? It's very similar experience. Yeah. But I think I got asked this question last night. We had some guests downstairs at soft bar and I was just, I catch up with some people in there, they visit.

And they were like so shocked like how I can like do the show and not drink alcohol. Yeah. But then the one girl was like, how do you face like watching yourself back? Isn't that awkward? Don't you hate the sound of your voice? I'm like, yeah, I kind of hate the sound of my voice. But what I compare it to, and since you mentioned the sports thing, the best athletes in sports typically watch film of their games.

Tom Brady watches the tape of him throwing the balls and handing the balls off in the plays to learn what his mistakes were, to learn what his successes were, and to get better and improve. Any other athlete you'd ask, they watch tape of their game. The way I look at reality in my life is I watch tape of the game. And for me, it's an opportunity to look at your behavior, look at your communication skills, just overall character and benefit from that mirror into your life that no one else really has. So I look at it like this is a growth opportunity. This is a

healing opportunity. This is an evolution opportunity. I mean that comes from you can tell you're sober. You know what I mean? Listening to you talk about that. Like that comes from a place of being open to grow, having already grown. And that comes from watching yourself in sobriety too. And I just want to be the better, best version of myself. I always wanted to be that way, I think, early on in the show or put out my best effort. And it's interesting, like when I first started doing it, I thought I had an idea of who I was and what I'm putting out to the audience. It was this confident, seemingly decent-looking guy who's making a little bit of money doing sales and parties and has a good time. Yeah.

What was being told was this, you know, insecure, anxious party boy who has a lot of things he needs to figure out. and his career is kind of going a different direction because of the party. That's what the story is, and I wasn't ready to face that. I'm sure. But it was interesting what you think I'm presenting versus what was actually being presenting. And that was that juxtaposition that early on really messed with me. Yeah. I can see that.

Square knows that in hospitality, efficiency is everything. That's why the system lets you take payments, track sales, handle inventory, manage staff, send invoices, and keep up with finances all in one place. fly through orders with zero mistakes. Get the data you need and keep everything working together. So you're ready for whatever's next. Learn more about their customized little plans at squareup.com. On his podcast chasing life, I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

CNN's chief medical correspondent brings you the secrets of the happiest and healthiest people on the planet so that you can live your best life. Are some people just born happier than others? And what might they be doing that the rest of us aren't? Follow Chasing Life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Apple, Spotify, IHeard Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Talk about in your book, like romanticizing of alcohol, which is also something I think that lends itself to the reality world. Yeah. It's like the greatest thing ever and it's all this.

But we've been brainwashed in a way that like alcohol is essential to celebrating. I guess like what are the dangers of like the romanticism of alcohol in the media, reality? I think the danger is that us thinking that we are. are the only ones who can't create that, that romantic version of alcohol because that's not the reality of it. Right. So when we, everything that we've wanted alcohol to be that I always thought it was like the fast track to connection. It would make me more beautiful, faster, funnier, right? Like a better dancer. And all of these things. Maybe a better answer every once at all. Yeah, maybe, maybe just a little. But all of these things.

And then when reality hit of like, oh, actually, it's making me, I'm a mess, right? My story is a lot of with men that I didn't know or I would never even talk to, right? And I know that that's a lot of women's stories in college and in 20s. And that's a tough, that's the reality of alcohol. It's not this kind of the first glass of champagne, right? or the first glass of red wine with steak. Like that's not the reality. That's what our brain connects it to.

But the reality is like that fifth glass, the sixth glass, the next morning. And it all just really, when that's what we're sold and then when we realize that's not reality, we think we're the problem. We think like, well, I just need to drink it better. And then we're convinced that there is a better way to drink it. Yeah. Instead of like actually, right. Instead of like, no, actually, that's all marketing.

That's all very, like, well-designed marketing to make sure, especially now women keep drinking, right? That is what the shelters are. That is what the pink label and the wine bottles are, right? Well, I mean, the data around women making those purchases at liquor or grocery stores where alcohol sold, it's the data shows that women are typically in charge of that discretionary spending in households. Yeah.

So it's not the man going to the grocery store and buying the 30-pack up. It's his wife or partner. But the women that are now being catered to in these environments, it's the pink labels, it's the bright colors, it's the zero sugar, it's the selters, it's the florals and all that stuff because they're realizing women are the ones actually buying more of the alcohol than the men. Yeah. Which is kind of an interesting.

It is interesting. And they need more drinkers, right? Because men were dying from alcohol. And so the alcohol industry does need more women drinking. Yes. And specifically moms, right? And I think that this is where my kind of, I don't know, activism gets activated is because moms have very real needs.

Like we are overwhelmed. We are especially like post-COVID and everything we were tasked with. Yeah. We're so tired. We're lonely. We're frustrated. We're overwhelmed. And when we're sold that alcohol is the solution, it is just, I always picture this, like,

just tired mom in the middle of. of America, right? And like she just got her kids to bed and she's like so disheveled, doesn't even know, can't even find herself again. And she's just at the kitchen counter and has like very, very real needs, right? And then I picture like two guys like men in black and they're wearing like black suits and sunglasses and they represent big alcohol. And they just like push a glass of wine at her and they're like, shh. Like we don't want to hear what you need because systemically, there's a lot that we're failing, right, for moms. We don't want to hear how you're struggling. Drink this so you can escape and then keep drinking more so you can get addicted.

And it's only when you're addicted that then we'll say, what's wrong with you? You have a problem. Why'd you get addicted? You're the problem. Yeah, now you got to stop. You can't handle your alcohol. Right. Now you got to stop. Well, you mentioned big alcohol, which is exactly where I wanted to go. And I love that we're using the term big alcohol. I have a whole thing with like outside of alcohol, like sugar, big tobacco, big sugar, big, big alcohol. Yes. Big coffee. I guess like something that I think you've articulated really well is just kind of how

alcohol gets woven into our identities, our social norms, just kind of society as a whole. So like expand on just like as a mother, how you're seeing big alcohol really market to. Oh my gosh. It's kind of the quiet part out loud because there is a drink on the shelves at department stores at big box stores. It's like a vodka drink. And I'm like, you guys are saying the.

quiet part out loud. And they're on Instagram. They're promoting this as moms, you know, alcohol has become this thing that it's not, you know, it doesn't help make motherhood easier. It's essential for moms. And that is just so dangerous. And we see it, you know, there are influencers that I'm not going to call out by name because I'll get in trouble. But really saying, you know, drinking, pouring like a seltzer in there Stanley, which is you're hiding alcohol for of all, which is very troubling, you're binge drinking. And they're saying, this is how I survive daylight saving with kids. I'm like, man, not only are your kids going to grow up and be like, why did you have to drink to survive me?

Right. And what that does, so many moms are looking now to social media. And like, how does she do it? Right. She looks so put together. How does she do that? 24-ounce white claw into Stanley, apparently. And the secret is, and I only know this.

because I've been influencing for so long. She's not doing that. She is not drinking that Stanley all day long. She's running businesses, right? She's like killing it. You can't perform at a level that she is if she's doing that. She is influencing her people to do that. It is all marketing.

And I think with everything, you just have to follow the money. And I don't think a lot of people know about big alcohol. I do also see some kind of poaching behavior on, like, THC drinks of they are kind of targeting. It's like, oh, you don't drink. We'll do this THC drink and come and drink this. And I'm like, okay, guys. Yeah. I think, too, the THC conversations continuing to become very large because alcohol sales are going down. Yeah. And what are other beverages that someone can still get a feeling from? Yeah. Drinking alcohol gives you a feeling, of course. Yeah. Something you don't like. Tell you have none. Yeah. I think

THC and or some of these other alternatives do provide people with some sort of feeling. Yeah. That's like a good segue from, okay, you're not drinking alcohol, but you're going to drink something's going to give you a little buzz. Right. Different buzz. Yeah. I think that it plays a role in that kind of maybe a transition part.

Sure. I think my favorite part about sobriety is I can figure out how I feel, which then leads me to what I need. And that, for me at least, anytime there's any sort of like mind altering thing, in there, it's, that's tough for me. I think you just nailed what mindful is all about. Yeah. You know, listening to your body, understanding how you're feeling, checking in with yourself, finding the right things for you to support that, whether it's having a nice functional coffee or a tea, certain foods, workouts, friends, books. I love that you, I mean, talk about that,

just understanding what your body needs and giving you that. Because there is a lot of nuance in the world of sobriety, all this stuff. And I have my belief in just how I personally feel is like what works best for you, go for that. And that's the thing. There are no rules, right? And that's what I always thought before quitting drinking. It's like, well, I obviously don't qualify it for sobriety. So that's off the table because I didn't want to go to AA, call myself an alcoholic. Like all of that just kept me drinking. And so figuring out, oh, this is just such a personal thing. This is my thing. Exactly. Like it's okay if somebody doesn't understand if, you know, even if it's they're in my family or I'm close to them or, you know, that's okay. Yeah. This thing isn't for you. This is for me. It's yours. It's yours. It's yours, right. Yeah. It's been cool. I mean, being such a public person, I've been sent a lot of messages on Instagram, and I've gone to AA and I still do attend meetings. I love the community. However, there is a sense sometimes of you're not as sober as I am. Right. Right. That's my own.

voice talking to me, but I've met a lot of amazing people in the program. However, I've met a lot of sober people outside of that program. So I've just tried to kind of weave between, but I get messages all the time about AA and people say, Carl, I go to AA, but I'll have a THC drink to help cool off at the end of the night, but I have people that tell me I'm not sober anymore. And I'm like, if that's what works best for you to stay off of alcohol or cocaine or other hard substances, honestly, go for it. Harm reduction, whatever.

I believe in that. they're afraid to admit that in a meeting. And I've got a lot of these messages over the last couple of years because I've been open about using some T.C. You know, for me, it's, I view as a harm reduction tool. If you're honest about it and you're really open with the people around you, there's a world I think it could be included in some way. But there's a lot of nuance in the world of AA and sobriety that I think is, I don't know, I'm just trying to promote like a what works best for you. That's okay. And that's what I think it requires a constant checking in. Right? And that's the same with,

mocktails, right? It's the same like with any drinks. Like people have so many opinions in sobriety. Oh my God. Totally. So many opinions. Sometimes the opinions come from people that maybe aren't sober. Yeah. But also the saying goes that I hear a lot is if you spot it, you got it. Totally. And that's so important to remember as we, you know, as sober people go out into the world, because there are so many opinions and you do get some pushback. And you do get, What? You're no fun anymore. Exactly. You're boring. You're laying. Yeah, you're such a dork. I'm like, I love being a dork.

Dorks are back. Yeah, dorks are so cool. Dorks are good. But it's so important to remember, yeah, because I was the same. Like, if someone was not drinking, I was like very interested. Like, wait, okay, tell me. But you can have one tonight, right? You're going to have one of me, though, right? Like, okay, but don't drink.

You're trying to recruit them to, like, join you in. Right. Right. Because, and we see this in on Bravo a lot. Like this is a very interesting dynamic to watch play out in some of the housewives, like when a housewife quits drinking and which housewives want to talk about it. Sure. And which also like don't. And that is also a clear sign that's like, no, no, I'm not even going to.

Because if you're looking at your relationship with alcohol, that might mean I have to do to. So I'm not even going to acknowledge that you quit drinking. Yeah. Susan Galbraith was a housewife in Mayfield, Kentucky. But after a murder in town, Susan took it upon herself to find witnesses who could point to a killer. She thought she was going to be a hero. But that's not what happened. The lies, a lot of lies.

What were Susan's real motives? She wasn't in it to help them find the killer. Why then did the cops take her seriously? It was known that she was getting funds from them. Susan's son is wrestling with his mother's legacy to this day. I mean, my mom was, I used the word diabolical. And perhaps the biggest question of all is, did she help convict an innocent man? I do feel like that they got the wrong people.

From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, this is My Mother's Lies, available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, add free. Welcome to Crime Scene, the new weekly show from The Binge. where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of my fugitive dad or dear Franklin Jones watching you. I'm an executive producer of The Binge, the True Crime Podcast Network,

where we bring you a new series on the first of every month. For crime scene, I'm joined by my producer and co-host Cooper Mall, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and the Crimes of Margot Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. What I think what makes crime scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground. We're investigative storytellers. And so many of the stories that come across our desk, we haven't been able to share with you until now. So if you're one of the millions of people who have flocked to the binge for riveting

storytelling, deeply investigated true crime series, think of this as all the things that you love about those shows in a single episode. Join us every week in the crime scene office wherever you listen to or watch your shows. This is crime scene. Available now. But I want to get into like more about yourself and if you're comfortable, you know, let's talk a little bit about grief. if that's okay. Yeah. You know, obviously for me personally,

and I think a lot of people, grief and alcohol are coping mechanisms. Yeah. You know, there's no real playbook for how to deal with grief. I'm still kind of going through the waves of it all, but obviously you went through a lot as a child. You wrote about growing up with a dad who struggled.

Then you got sober, but never really repaired. And I also can relate to that with my brother who I had a really up and down relationship, and he passed before I had a chance to really make amends or share with him that I was even getting sober. So that's something I've, to be honest, really struggle with a lot. Yeah. And by struggle, I mean it's more like living with it.

Yeah. Forgiving yourself for you. I mean, what has the grief process been like? Have you had any closure? Have you given yourself the opportunity to grieve fully? Oh, man. Yeah. My dad drank a lot when I was little.

And then he quit when I was pretty little. And he was like, the doctor said that if I wanted to dance at your wedding, I have to quit drinking today. And so he did. And you were a little kid. Yeah, I was like 10. So that message was I saved him, right? And he didn't drink then until my wedding, like 20 years later. And we were close. We were very close until the end. You know, his mind did start slipping a little bit. And we were in like a fight at the end. And it was a pretty like active fight, like alive and well fight for about three weeks. And then he died. So sorry for your loss. Thank you.

And I was just over a year sober. And, you know, my best friend who also quit drinking right before I did, I will never forget. She just told me she was like everyone would understand. You know, like. Yeah. If you, like, wanted to go out there and just get fucked up. Like no influencing right now, no, like holding, you know. Yeah, you don't have to do this.

Everyone will get it. Like, it's okay. And I just remember feeling. And I still wasn't like super stable in my sobriety. Not like today. Sure. There was still a lot of questions. Yeah, year in.

Yeah, year in. I think the second year is even harder. I do too. Everything comes up. You know, I considered it because everyone around, this is Wisconsin, everyone around me was drinking to cope. And it became clear that I wasn't going to drink because if I was going to drink to kind of numb this very like hard, grief and this very sharp emotion, then I was also going to numb this love that I have. And I wanted

to hold on to that. I still want to hold on to that with everything that I have. And I, and I do. And so I chose not to numb, which also meant so much grieving. Feeling it. Yeah. So much. And it was, you know, I had three little kids. And they saw me grieve. They, I would like literally. fall to my knees, right? And just cry and cry and cry. And I still have those days. I can feel it kind of when I, when I'm starting to get just irritated with everybody or like, you know, I can feel it kind of festering. And I'm like, okay, I need to put on Jimmy Buffett, a pirate looks at 40, and go in my closet and cry. You know, that's your, that's my dad's, that was my dad's favorite song. I love that you use music as a way to. Oh, music for me is huge. It like transfers. It,

It's how I, that is how I escape now. And you kind of, do you share, I mean, your father, I'm assuming it was a Jimmy Buffett guy? Yes, huge. So you almost have the, it's, he's listening with you. Yes. It's not just by yourself. Yes. And I think the way you describe that grief is incredible and so relatable.

And I appreciate you just. Yeah. It brings up feelings for me personally because of, you know, the pain and the sadness and not knowing how to deal with it. Yeah. But knowing that I couldn't deal with it with alcohol. But for me, when my brother first passed, you know, I'm actually, I went to it, I had his funeral, I gave a eulogy, and there was a bar next store. And I went over to the bar and drank like six yingling beers.

That's how I just was like, this is now my license to go out and do what I want because everybody's going to understand that I'm allowed to go get drunk because my brother just died. Yeah. So having you say that, it's just like it's powerful to really, to know that you made that decision to really, to really. feel the grief and actually day by day, go through it, cry, fall to your knees. Yeah. And I have days and moments where sometimes I don't feel anything. My mom would say she's numb sometimes. But the days that I feel it and cry, after I feel it all, I'm like, I'm almost happy.

Because it shows I fucking care and I loved him and he's here and he's still with me. Yes. I hope maybe in some ways there is an element of like you're carrying on your father's legacy by living so purposefully, writing an amazing book, having an incredible community you're building online. Do you feel like you're honoring him and carrying on his message in a way through you? I do. I feel so, you know, I feel closer to him now.

And I think for, you know, unresolved situations like you and I had, that it felt unresolved, right? That's a very specific kind of grief that I think there is no closure. for me. Yeah. And I think that that's also beautiful in a way that our relationship didn't end. You know, like it's still, yeah, I have his signature tattooed on me. I talk to him like in my head, like on the way here. Do you ever hear from him in different signs? I do in music. Yeah. In music. Anything worth sharing with us? Yeah. I shared about it in the book because this is perfectly describes my sobriety. My sobriety isn't like rainbows and unicorns.

and everything's great. For the record, all of these cameras here, none of that is. No. No sobriety is, rainbows and butterflies. No. It's still life. It can look like that on the outside, but it's clunky, it's awkward, it's silly, it's weird, all the things. All the things, right?

And for me, it's so much in the little moments that I wouldn't have even known would pass me by had I been drinking. And so this was a few summers ago, all of our kids, I have three kids, they were playing, like, happily getting along and they were playing outside, which is, I mean, that in itself is a miracle. And my husband and I were sitting and I was drinking Tobolchiko, and it was gone, right? And I was like, oh, I want to go get another one, right? Because you just want another one. It's empty. I should go get another one.

And I'm like, oh, actually, I don't have to get another one. It's not a beer or wine. Like, I'm not thirsty anymore. I could just stay put. I don't want to break this spell, right? It felt like a very, I just didn't want to break the spell. And so then I stayed. And then the next song that came on was,

Jeremiah was a bullfrog. And that was the one song that my dad sang. Anytime you asked him to sing a song, it was that song. And that came on and I was like, holy shit. Like, I would have missed this. And I wouldn't even known. I wouldn't have known what I would have missed, right? And the fact that I stayed and was present just to hear that, I was like, oh, my God, that's it.

Oh, my God. I mean, that's incredible to hear. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. I mean, you talk about remembering the parts of yourself that existed long before your drinking ever did. What pieces did you reclaim once you stopped? Oh, man.

And I love this question. I'm not going to lie because I feel like tapping back into your original childhood self and the core, Suzanne. So what were things that you reclaimed? This is my favorite. favorite part. Like when I quit drinking and, you know, drinking was so much of an identity and with the party girl and like that, it was really like a, who am I now? Now that I don't have this thing, now that this relationship is over, who am I? And so I did go back to the girl at 14, 15, before alcohol came in, right? Because I started drinking at 16. And I asked her.

And I was like, okay, who are we? What do we like to do? Like, she reminded me about my love for fashion for weird stuff that, you know, people might judge. Like, she used to shop at Goodwill and wear grandpa's plaid shirts and my boyfriend's baggy jeans. You know what I mean? She had purple hair. Love it. She just didn't care.

And so- You were expressing yourself in ways that, you know, felt good to you. Yes. And really not asking for anybody's permission. or what you thought. You're doing it for yourself. Yes. And so I then brought that in.

Like I wallpapered my closet with skulls, you know, because I had always loved skulls. I don't know why. So you just tap back into all this. It is. All this like creative stuff. The writing, for sure, she wanted to write a book. And I was like, okay, let's see what we can do, right? The writing, the reading.

It just opened up so much stuff. And it was so healing to then bring her along and say, like, yes. We went through a lot of shit. Like, look at everything we've been through, but look at where we are now and you get to be here with me. And like really connecting with her has been my favorite. I love it. That's so important for people to hear that because I think you lose your identity, obviously, as you said, when you stop drinking. And even your community of friends sometimes can really change. Yes. And being able to really tap back into like just you. And like I've used that. I've done the same thing as like what was Carl as a six, seven year old, eight year old kid.

Yeah. And I was the friendly kid poking people in the arm, wanted to go play outside. Let's go running. Let's do activities. Let's create. Let's build something. Let's set up a lemonade stand in the front yard and sell lemonade to the neighbors. I could totally see that.

I was that kid and now reclaiming the entrepreneurial spirit in me. Just my friendly nature and energy for adventure and meeting people. Because when I drank and used, I was a fucking asshole. Right. And I've reclaimed, like, my true character is like, I'm genuine and kind. And I love being that way because my mother was that way and my dad was that way. Yeah. But when I drank and used, all that was gone.

Yeah. So it's been amazing to reclaim those real core tenets of who you are. So I love. And I love that you mentioned the fashion and clothing. Totally. I myself, like to wear some fun and different things. Yes. Love it.

But I like to say it's, I don't, I wear the clothes for myself. Same. I don't wear them for someone else. And that's the thing is really, like, checking in with yourself about all of this, everything. When, like, I was able to hear the little voice inside, like, the outside noise didn't matter as much. And that, I think, is very freeing. Your voice actually mattered more than when you were using or drinking and all that. Your voice was carrying, it was telling you to listen to other voices from the outside.

Totally. I couldn't even, like, it was drowned out. I call it, like, learning my own language to be like, oh, what is this, you know, what is this little voice telling me that this situation isn't good or what I need here? And that is part of sobriety that takes some time to get to know, to sit with yourself. But how good is that little voice? Oh, she's my favorite. So good.

I couldn't agree with me more. And I say this to some of my colleagues and people I work with. My body is always right. Yes. Would you agree with that? Oh, as someone with OCD, my brain can mess up a lot of stuff. Another one of my mantras is feet fail me not. Feet fail me not.

Yes, feet fail me not. Because my feet know, my body knows how to get me. there. Like my body knew how to get me here today. If it was up to my brain, I could have come up with 100 reasons why it wasn't going to happen, right? My body knows what to do. And so anytime I'm stressed out, don't know what I need, my answer is always to get out of my head and into my body. And so that is running. That's yoga. That's even like I love puzzles, which sounds, it sounds, no, puzzles are great. Puzzles are amazing. And getting back to like analog, like, physical things you can touch, feel, smell.

And it kind of is like a meditative state for me. I don't have to figure out anything else. I just, like, my husband knows I'll just sit and focus on a puzzle. Like, I will let the world go on around me. I love it. Did you do puzzles as a kid? Yes. Love it.

You reclaimed. Yeah, I did. You build a massive online community, obviously, of women that are feeling seen and mothers and women that are taking better steps than their sobrieties or whatever. Why do you think your honesty has resonated so deeply with the community you're building. Because I think so many women like myself thought they were the only ones. Well said.

I thought I was the only one who hated moderation, right? Or like thought about alcohol so much or woke up at 3 a.m. in a shame spiral and binge drank and now tried to do. I thought it was just me. And so when I finally just said, hey, I think I'm feeling this way, right? I think that alcohol is kind of messing everything up. And I think there could be a better way. And then I started hearing this like drumbeat of,

I thought I was the only one. I thought I was the only one. Were you surprised by the reaction? Yes. I started influencing and it was just motherhood and fashion. And that was great. I loved it. It helped me really get through my OCD and like find myself.

But then I like quit drinking. And I was like, you know, still posting about sweaters. But then being like, okay, but I really. want to talk about this thing, but they don't know about this yet. And I think they're going to be like, oh, how bad was it? Right? Like, ooh, tell me about your rock bottom. And I did jump, like, do it scared. I was like, I'm terrified to make this post. You're inspiring people. You're inspiring me. It's amazing to hear everything you're doing. I relate to you in so many levels. How do you stay grounded in general? And then how do you protect your own mental health? Are there things you do that

our listeners and watchers could maybe start to be like Suzanne? Yeah, I mean, I definitely, my circle is very small as far as like social. It's definitely quality over quantity. And so I'm not saying yes to everything. And that does help me protect my kind of peace and stay grounded in my home. I do yoga a lot. I run almost every day. Yes.

Run or girl. Yep, that's right. That is, you know, essential for me. If I'm feeling anxious or off, I'm like, oh, I haven't run or I haven't worked out. Like that is kind of primary. Yeah, and that is all for my mental health. I mean, that really is like where it starts for me. And then music.

Like music is huge. When I talked about music, music for me is one of my favorite class, I do shred. It's probably like your berries. I've seen and heard of shred before. Yeah. So shred. is it feels like a nightclub, which I love as someone who used to love nightclubs, because it's very dark and the music is so loud.

And it's running on tread and lifting weights. And that is like, fills my soul. I love it so much. That's, yeah. I love it. What's the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning? And this isn't like a test or anything. I know.

Oh, my gosh. I want to say lemon water. It's not. It's coffee. I'm going to send you a thing from Mel Robbins about drinking coffee first thing you wake up. It increases the levels of your cortisol. I know. It's so bad.

It's just stress and anxiety in your body. I know. If you can find a way to take a little bit longer to get to the coffee, it'll help. Okay, well, here's what I do first, which is really good for my cortisol because I try to wake up before my kids. Smart. That'll help the cortisol. I know. I know.

That's like number one. I snuggle with my dog, Georgia. She greets me at the bottom of the stairs with her little stretch. And it's like I can feel myself relaxed and I snuggle. And then I'm like, okay, Georgia coffee. Now you're ready. Yeah. I love the doggie. Shout out to Georgia. Yeah. Okay. Last question for you. You've given me some

amazing things. I love this conversation. But we talked about the concept of more life. What is giving you more life right now? Oh my God. This conversation is giving me more life, first of all. Amazing. I really do think being able to talk openly about feelings and doubts and everything that I, Like if you would have told me six years ago that I would be having these conversations, I would have died. And the fact that this has kind of been the ticket to feeling more life is finally saying these things that I call it mold in the basement that I had like shoved down all the doubt and the fear and anxiety around alcohol.

And now being able to shine a light on that and to connect over it and like true connection, Not drinking connection. Like actually true, yeah, true real conversations. I mean, it's a dream. You're following the path you were always meant for. Yeah. Which is how you got there maybe not as linear as everybody wants it to be. But congratulations on all the community success and your book and everything you're doing

and your personal life with your family and all that. So I'm just honored for you to come in today. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed being at soft bar. Oh, love it. Stick around after for a little bit if you'd like. But if followers and our walk, watchers and listeners, how can people learn a little bit more about you? And I'm just going to show you guys

so you can see it. But I got Suzanne's awesome book, The Sober Shift. Where Can We Find More About You If you want to tell our folks. I'm on Instagram at Suzanne Where I. And then everything is at Suzanne where I.com. I have the podcast, The Sober Mom Life and the Sober Shift. You can get anywhere you find books. And I also did narrate the audiobook. I know you did too. Was that a weird experience? Very cool experience, but very strange. I think it'll be an amazing experience for the listeners because they've seen me on TV, then they hear my voice, and then it's my story. But even for those not on TV, I think the authenticity and you get such a cool experience

with it. Yeah. So I enjoyed it, but I cried in sessions because of the material I was writing about. Yeah, it wasn't easy, but I'm really lucky and grateful. So I love meeting other authors and podcasters and sober folks. And thanks again for everything you're doing. Thank you for being here. and thank you guys for tuning in to MoreLife with Carl Radke.

Suzanne Wari, appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks for coming in. Cheers. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds and denim pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mike U.R.T.

and recorded at Soft Bar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony music entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. Special thanks to Allison Shano and Joanna Orland.

New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time. Rosen lasagna, medium power, 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play. Feel the fun with Play Ojo. The online casino with all the latest slot and live casino games. What you win is yours to keep.

With no wage. measuring requirements, instant payouts, and no minimum withdraws. Hey, I just won. Woohoo! Feel the fun! Play Ojo! Honey, forget about the lasagna! Let's celebrate!

19 plus Ontario only, please play responsibly. Concern about your gambling or that of someone close to you, call 1866-531-2600 or visit Connexontera.ca.