More Life with Carl Radke - Survivor Winner Kyle Fraser on Incarceration, Reinventing Masculinity, and Winning $1M

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Survivor 48 winner and Survivor 50 contestant Kyle Fraser joins Carl Radke for an honest conversation about incarceration, sobriety, masculinity, reality TV, and the road to winning Survivor. Kyle opens up about reinventing himself, becoming a father, and why his darkest moments ultimately changed his life. Kyle Fraser is the winner of Survivor Season 48, an attorney and soon-to-be father whose journey to reality TV success included arrests, incarceration, sobriety, and using his experience to help others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Okay, guys, today on More Life, we've got Kyle Frazier. He is the winner of Survivor 48. He also is a contestant on Survivor. Season 50, he's got an incredible story that I think you guys are going to love to hear. He's coming into Softbar today. live here in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. We're going to talk about his attorney life, his advocacy. He's also been incarcerated.

He's also got a bunch of cool things happening. Tune in this week, guys. Can't wait for you to listen. And we're ready to rock. Let's go. Kyle Frazier, welcome to more life. Look at you, man. We're in the exact same color that I am today.

Thanks for having me. Great minds think alike. How are you feeling today? I'm good. I'm good. My wife and I would just at a routine pregnancy appointment. She's 35 weeks tomorrow. Baby's healthy and happy.

Maggie is healthy and happy. First one. First one. Have your little girl. New dad, new mom. How are we feeling? I'm feeling great. Honestly, I am.

You got a big smile on your face. It seems like you're excited. You've been reading the books? I have. I've been listening to an audio book, my first ever audiobook. Good. Good man. Learning a lot.

I love it. Well, it seems like you've lived several lives already, which I can relate to, you know, kind of having nine or ten different lives at this point. You're an attorney, lawyer, you're a soon-to-be father, husband. and you're a survivor winner. You've also been incarcerated. And as far as I know recently, you're also sober. Yeah.

Thank you. I like that summary. Yeah. I guess how do you define yourself? I hate using this term, but honestly, I think I like to think that I'm a curious sort of Renaissance man. Like I feel like what attracted me to Survivor, what took me from teaching to going to be a lawyer, and like what makes me want to be a dad even is just sort of, I'm interested

in so many different things. And so I feel like the polymath sort of like. like Renaissance man is my lane, but I think that's also, you know, you mentioned the incarceration. I think that's also what's gotten me a little bit of trouble in my life too. Like I get so excited about things. And so sort of just like I'm one speed. I'm always like focusing on the next thing and the new thing. And I think that's like one of my best qualities, but my like, you know, tougher ones as well.

So I think Survivor and where I'm at in life right now is it's really cool to sort of showcase all those things. So I mean, do people still recognize you on the streets at all? Do you get people stopping you and say, hey, it's all you? Survivor? Yeah. Especially here on my first season, like you, they kind of wait until you're the middle of the season, right? Because it's not like I'm on sustained television.

I'm not on TV every single week or anything like that. But like once people start to like resonate with you as a character and as a person, then all of a sudden like you're recognizable. Sure. And so I saw that. And now with season 50, you know, like once every other day. I remember when it first came out that Richard, the season one winner and you ended up winning season 40, which we're going to get into.

And I want to talk a little bit about the incarceration stuff or wherever you're comfortable. I applaud you for being so vulnerable about that darker part of your story or that more difficult part of your story, even when I watched your TED Talk. You have such a positivity about some of your past. And I honestly want to like drink some of that because sometimes we'll look back at some past experiences and those negative things that happen in my family or a relationship. I like get brought back down and it can hold me down sometimes. So I just love how you opened up about that. I want to get into that today. Yeah.

We're not going to do a TED talk, but first and foremost, before we get into that, I do have to say, I hear you're a Bravo fan or your wife is a Bravo fan. She is. I am now. I am now. So what I wanted to let's let you know. I tell this to every man that I meet through a wife of like, you know, in the streets or at an event or whatever, they're like, we love Bravo. And then the husband's there. And he's like, yeah, I like it too.

What I say to him is real men watch Bravo. But I mean, Summerhouse is honestly the gateway drug to Bravo. 100%. 100%. So talk to me about your Bravo relationship. Yeah, so it's funny. So I'd never watch reality TV at all. The first one that I started watching was Survivor. Survivor. During COVID. And then that is right when my wife and I started dating. And then, you know, slowly but Shirley, we start living together and she's all in on Summerhouse. That's her number one. Then Southern Charm. Then, you know, like all the spinoffs, Vanderpump Rules. Is it weird watching Summerhouse with your experiences from Survivor? You know what? It's really is. Just because you know how the sausage is made on your show versus maybe what ours is. It's different, but it's actually, I feel like Survivor is more similar to Sun.

Summerhouse than most. It is because like, you know, the only thing, you're so vulnerable on TV. And I think that, like, one thing that I tell people is, you know, you're not playing a character on Survivor. You're truly just out there as who you are. And I realize it now on so much, like, more intimate level. And like, because the only thing is we're not playing a character, but I'm in the jungle. I'm doing something foreign and completely different than what I'm doing.

You're seeing yourself like a fish out of water. Exactly. But you guys are literally letting people into your lives on a day-to-day basis. Like, this is who I am. Here's what's going on in the real world. So when I got into Summer House and started watching, like, I really am a non-confrontational person. I, like, get really weird and awkward when I see awkward things on TV. But eventually, as I start to get to know you guys, like, I'm like, I'm here for it.

Like, you know, I'm here for the good moments and the bad moments. And, like, it actually probably is helpful for me to, like, see confrontation repeatedly. Not that that's all the show is. Sure. But, like, sit through that and, like, talk through my wife. Like, how do you feel about this situation? What would you have done? In the same way, we talk about the game and Survivor.

Like, what would you do strategically? So it's interesting. I actually think you brought, that's an excellent point. And I'm very aware of like this experience on being on Bravo and what Summerhouse over the years can do for the audience. And like, I meet tons of people. I love meeting our fans. But one thing that always kind of pops up is like, Summerhouse is like this guide or playbook in a way for people that watch to kind of navigate things in their own personal life. For sure.

Conflict with your spouse or your husband or wife, you know, a professional relationship, a friend. And there's so many things that we kind of showcase the wrong and maybe good way that I think it's an example for the audience to kind of follow along. And I'm proud of that. Like, we don't always handle it well. But if the audience can watch and kind of gain some better perspective, like I love that you kind of experience it like that. Now, when you were on Survivor, did you actually like incessantly watch your own show

or did you kind of just let it? I kind of think about it in two separate lanes, like the actual island experience, which I love. Like, I really feel, you know, funny. Like you say fish out of water, but I've never felt. more like in place than being out there. Were you a boy scout stranger? No, not at all. I mean, I grew up in Southern Virginia and like had like, like,

Southern Virginia is almost deep south. Yes, it is. And people don't realize that. Like, I think I got into an argument with Vanita about this at the threads of it. I was like Virginia is the south. Like Vinita, if you come to where I grew up, you will understand it. Like there's a certain line in Virginia. Like D.C. is, I feel like the north.

Yes, 100%. Below D.C. or a little bit below maybe Richmond is like south. One, yeah. I feel like. So you grew up in the south. You were like, you camped, you were out. I guess I'm trying to understand how does a guy just jump into the jungle and like win survivor?

Like, that's insane. Yeah, I mean, it just, it's a people-oriented game, right? The jungle is there and the hardship, the starving, the like, you know, mental sort of fortitude. All of that is there. But the way that I always think about it and now speak about it because I've lived is it's a people game. Like, people will come up to me on the street and be like, I can't believe that you

did that. Like, I wouldn't have lasted a day. And I'm like, one, if you look at all the different types of people who are actually on the show. There are people from New Jersey who've never been camped before. There's people from, you know, all types of characters. But like, one, you're not only doubting yourself, you're 17 other people that you're on the island with. Like, you're on a thing called a tribe for a reason. And, like, the reason I like Survivor, I realize is because I love apocalyptic shit. I like zombie movies. I like crime movies. I like mafia movies. Weird sci-fi stuff where, like, shit goes south. And then what I

always love about those, and I didn't realize it until after Survivor is that the next logical conclusion when something really bad happens to you, in this case you're shipwrecked, is you have to get together with a group of people. And I kind of love that aspect of it because I'm such like a stereotypical extroverted person, but I also, because of some of the experiences you talked about, like have met a ton of different people.

And I think that I was able to flourish in that game because of it. I love that. Well, we're going to jump into more stuff. I want to get to know more about Survivor, but there's a lot of other stuff I want to get to know about your law career, some of the sobriety stuff. You know, we're going to get into that. But I have a thing here on More Life.

You know, obviously you're on the podcast. podcast here. A mantra that I kind of live by is called More Life. It's something that I used to say on, I don't know if you saw season two of Summerhouse. I have not seen season two. I don't know if you want to maybe go back. Go back into the first episode. I had had had a really, I was in a rough shape, really drunk at dinner and was just like bantering. I love Drake. And at the time, his More Life album had just come out. And I was just screaming more life, more life and just saying all this stuff. It's something now in my sobriety I've kind of held on to as like living life to the fullest, taking advantage of every day. You

just taking advantage of the opportunities and living more life. So do you have a saying, Kyle, that people know you for? Yeah. This one, closed mouths don't get fed. I just love it. You can look at it in different ways. It can be like shamelessly advocate for yourself. It can be like dream big and think about like what it is you actually want.

I actually learned that saying in jail, right? Because like there's no place that you have to advocate for yourself more than in jail when guards are tripping or like somebody else is like bugging out. or you're just like in a vulnerable situation and you need to like figure out like what's next. It's easy to sort of just like keep your mouth shut and be like I don't need anything because I can just keep to myself and like sort of like figure it out.

But like I love closed mouths don't get fed because like sometimes you just have to ask for things. And like you don't do it in a and like an egotistic or like a transactional way but just like a genuine way. Like you know, this is what I want and so I'm gonna go for it. Okay guys I've gotta talk about this because I've got a few friends.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, Peace contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. I know. I want to talk a little about when I watched your TED Talk, the way you kind of share some of the incarceration stuff,

which I appreciate your honesty about that. And like, how has that been kind of now in your professional life just like talking about some of that? Like, is it easy to talk about? Because like, here I'm more life. It's a space to like share deep, dark, weird things. So I'm curious, just like drawing back upon the incarceration, how do you navigate that in your daily life? Do you talk about it every day or is it just kind of a part of your story?

How do you navigate that? Yeah, I'm really glad you asked me that because I don't get to talk about that as much, to be honest, people are more interested in the story. No one really knew that I've been like, you know, I've been incarcerated three times. I've spent roughly like two months my life in jail. The way you talk about your incarceration blows me away that you almost came out of like going to jail as like this university of like becoming a better person, which I don't think we always think about when people go to jail. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's really interesting because all of my, you know, all of my, like, convictions or, you know, arrests are all expunged for the most part. So I never really spoke openly about this in the real world, like other than my close friends

and my partner and like my family members who would know that I'd gone through this, like, you know, because I've been barred. First off, you have to get into law school and you have to disclose all of these things. Then you have to go through character and fitness when you actually get through law school. You've already paid all of that money, right? And to get barred, you actually have to go through a character and fitness process where you then have to go relitigate all these things, talk to people about these issues. In my case, you know, there was many underage possession of alcohol, arrests, your convictions, disorderly conduct, you know, things like that.

And so it's a really stressful time to sort of like you're pitching to other people actively. Like, here's why you should let me be a part of this club where I can advocate for other people. Here's why I won't slip up. Here's why I won't like miss the mark. It almost, you almost kind of want in a weird way, like you almost want your lawyer to have already maybe been in the system in some capacity, like on that.

side of the client almost, right? Yeah, and I think that's like, that's such a big thing. And I think that connecting with my clients, you know, like probably 15 days before I got locked up the last time when I was in law school, I just advocated on behalf of a kid who was 15 years old and facing multiple felony charges. I've argued on behalf of him at trial and we got him off. And I had a connection with that kid and my other clients and even in my now, like, outside of law school, my professional capacity that I think that a lot of other people have not had the chance to have. And I love that about my experience. I'm just, this is amazing, man. You have such an incredible story. It's so impressive, you know,

having to go through such a difficult thing like that, but then turning it over into helping and advocating for young kids and people that have been maybe wrongly accused or convicted. Where are you right now with your legal career? And like, what's, can you kind of talk about that? Yeah. So when I was on Survivor, the first time I was working for a judge, it was clerking for a judge who was phenomenal. Then the second time I was doing white collar criminal defense and then like some pro bono stuff in the criminal space as well. Now, I'm actually a music attorney. So I work for Warner Music Group, you know, major record label. Amazing. Shout out to Warner. I'm a big fan of music over here. We're Sony guys, but we respect

the Warner guys. There's no beef. There's no beef. We collaborate all the time. But I love it. So on the side, are you still advocating for some of these, I guess, marginalized communities and people that have been wrongly convicted? Yeah, I work with a nonprofit called Goso, getting out, staying out. Yeah, that's the one. It's based here in New York. They work with people who are formally incarcerated. A lot of youth. But it's great. It's an awesome mission. I'm just so impressed with how you've been able to do that and turn your kind of life into legal career, but also helping people that have been in that same position you kind of ran.

Yeah. I love talking about it and it's really weird because like I said, nobody knew about it. And then in one episode of Survivor, I decided that, you know what, I'm finally going to talk about this. And it got thrusted into the narrative. And I'm glad it did because people treat me for the most part exactly the same. Now, I do think that there's some people who know it and sometimes refrain from bringing it up. But I think it's been really cool to see that like I was always freaking out. If people knew this about me, if they knew this about my background, they're going to look at me

differently. They're going to think about me differently. Yeah. And the same way as like sobriety or like admitting you have depression or anxiety. It's like the judgment and the shame of that experience, right? For sure. But like I found that one, I feel so much better. Just being able to know that other people know this about me.

If I crack a joke about it, it's such a huge part of my life, the people that I've met, the experiences that I've had, how it's shaped. my viewpoint of the world and like what I want to do, that like now I have a chance to talk about it and not hide it. And one, for me personally, that's like a huge weight lifted off of my shoulder. But two, when I do get to engage with people about it, especially in these legal spaces, oftentimes more than not, there are these really intentional, cool conversations like this one where I can explain how it shaped me, how you should think differently about people who might be going through this and their families and like hearken it back to that ideal.

Like, you know, some of the ideals you talk about more life. Second chances. chances, who it makes you. Like, you know, so I'm really glad about it. No, it's so good because it reminds me a lot of just like, you know, the sobriety part too, just like people have, it's a disease. Yes. You know, and getting incarcerated, like people can make mistakes.

People fuck up. People do things. But you can take accountability. You can pay the price. You can serve your time and pay your restitutions and do your things. But the way you're talking about incarceration almost is like breaking the stigma of it. And, you know, my brother who's no longer with us had been incarcerated before. he had spent many times off and on in jail.

And again, the perception of incarceration in jail is so dark and sad and kind of crazy. But the way you kind of break that wall, it's really powerful because I think we need to know as human beings, there's people that have been incarcerated, have committed crimes, but have paid their time and done the work and do deserve another chance. Like, I think that's so important for people to get a second chance. And I love that the way you talk about it because it reminds me of with sobriety and, like, people can fuck up in addiction and can do things that they're not proud of. But doing the work, you know, being honest, taking accountability, it can serve in a lot of

beautiful ways. Do you have a mentor do you work with? Is there someone that you kind of, is your North Star that you kind of look to as, and I'll give you an example, someone that I've like, when I first got sober, was like Kevin Love, the NBA player talked about his mental health. And, you know, DeMarre de Rosen also talked about his mental health. I'm a big basketball fan and I love sports. So it was the athletes that opened up about their mental health and addictions that really

helped me. I'm curious with some of everything you've been there. Is there people that you've kind of admired or looked up to? You know, for me, like my older brother is like, you know, he's like a father figure to me. He's 10 years older than me. Wyatt. He's like, you know, been there for me throughout all this. My family members have never like batted an eye about like not only loving me, but also thinking that like I could succeed. But like, I think a more unorthodox answer is when I was teaching, right? When I was teaching, I'd already been incarcerated twice. And by that time, I taught during the school year at a boarding school where kids were parents were very wealthy and then a juvenile attention center. And you were teaching law at this point? I was teaching high school English

and coaching football and lacrosse. Amazing. And then at the juvenile attention center, I was teaching a GED course during the summer. And I saw both of the kids in the juvenile attention center area where they obviously had stereotypical struggles that you would think of, like, you know, finances, you know, violent communities and other struggles, a lot of addiction and things like that. But then I also saw kids at the boarding school who had their own problems. I had kids who were going through deep, deep depression on my lacrosse team who I would have never thought that their parents make hundreds of thousands of dollars to go into this phenomenal place. They have all the resources, but they're going through something completely different that is just as real. And it's that parallel, like,

in seeing people struggle, but also succeed in completely two different spaces that sort of defines me and how I view the world. And that, like, you can always just lean back on people no matter where you are, and that, like, as corny and sort of, like, lofty as that sounds, like, that's just how I view the world. Like, I think that one of those kids in the juvenile attention center could cure cancer if they had a chance. And I think that some of these kids in the boarding school, like, get ridden off sometimes as these people who are privileged or need to be chastised in a lot of ways.

And, like, you're holding them back in a certain respect as well. So it just, I look up to those kids in a lot of ways. Okay, so you're the kids of the North Star. Yeah. No, and that's so beautiful and inspiring. I'm curious. Like, I want to get into Survivor. Yeah.

What was your pitch to Survivor? Because at this point, you've got some shit on the record, right? Yeah. So how did you navigate pitching Survivor about why you should be on this show? People tell you you should go on this show? Like, talk to me about that and then what your pitch was. People in my everyday life, once I saw it, they were like, yeah, you probably could do that. But, you know, as far as what I was presented on TV, people were like, people consider me to be more boring TV.

Like, I'm like, I'm not, like, dramatic. I'm like about the game, things like that. But as far as me pitching myself to Survivor, I think they actually really were attracted to the way that I talked about incarceration, to the way that I talked about my life. And like, you know, I'll never forget when I was in casting and I was in a room with Jeff and all the producers, I was explaining my life and cracking jokes. And he was like, I think you couldn't win this game.

He's like, you're the modern day highway man. And I was like, hell yeah. Because like, I just love being. Jeff Sprope said that. Jeff Sproats said that. Because the first thing he said to me when I walked in was, Kyle, I don't think you can win this game. And I was like, well, let me tell you why that's wrong, Jeff.

They're already starting to play mind games with you before you to start. Literally. And flipping his switch was awesome. But I think like my pitch was, hey, you're never going to meet somebody like me who's literally worked with people in hedge funds who are billionaires, right? I've been around freaking oligarchs. And then at the same time, you're never going to meet somebody who's lived with people who have a dollar to their name.

And all those people love me and I love all of them. And so why is it going to be different on the island? And I think they like that. I love that. And how long from the time that you pitched yourself until you found out that you were going going to be on it? I got rock. So was it like a quick process?

No, no, no. The only reason I ask is because my journey to getting on reality TV was like, it was like this moment, 2016, right place, right time, conversation. And within a week, it was like developing. No way. Yeah. Yeah, mine was I sent in an application. I COVID on Christmas at 2021 after my best friend's wedding, which you actually met him that weekend in Charleston, South Carolina, at a bar, the weekend of their wedding, which is hilarious. We were down.

Kyle, Amanda and myself were there for, and Lindsay was there, too. we were doing at Uptown Social. Yep. We had a rager party. I was sober then, but it was definitely like, that was a lot. Yeah. It was like early in my sobriety. There was like 500 people in Charleston at this bar.

Yeah, Paul Ross and Catherine, my best friends. Shout out to Paul. Yeah. You met them that weekend. I went to their wedding, got Omicron. Omicron. Oh, McRen had hit New York. You probably remember it ravaged New York.

And I sent an application just on the couch because my wife didn't get it. I was in the apartment by myself. I didn't think anything of it. I was like, this will be a joke. Two years later, I got hit up. Two years? Two years later randomly. and then it was like that.

After I got that email and I had talked to somebody, then they rocketed me through the process. But I think it just kind of got lost in the sauce and then somebody was digging through the tapes and found me and was like, let's go. Unbelievable. So, okay, I'm training for a marathon. Do you train?

You are. Which one? I'm going to run the New York one. My man, same. Yes, sure. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you.

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And what might they be doing that the rest of us aren't? Follow Chasing Life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Apple, Spotify, IHeard Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you prep and train for Survivor? Like, are you getting in the gym? Are you, like, mentally watching, like, old episodes? Yeah, all of it. I'm trying to understand the strategy going into this and how you... Stereotypical lifting, tons of endurance.

I actually put on a lot of fat before I went out there as well because you don't want to look good out there. You want enough fat reserve. So when your fat goes, you still have your first, you still have your muscle. You don't want muscle to get eaten away while you're starving immediately because then you're screwed. And then a lot of lie.

I was playing mind games and tricks with my wife. And that seems like it's hard to lie. Like my body reacts to lying. How do you navigate lying like that? It's a game, but that's exactly why I had to practice. Like I would like hide things from my wife. And then when she'd ask me like, have you seen them? like her glasses or something miscellaneous,

I would like tell little white lies to people to see if I could get away with it in real life. I would put myself, because I said I'm non-confrontational, I would put myself in confrontational circumstances, like not like create it myself, but like act differently than I normally would to try to see like how I would do in those moments. Sure.

I don't think a lot of people do that sort of work. Everybody just thinks about the physical, but they don't do like the mental, you know, people will read like 48 laws of power or like some like, how to gain friends. I don't think you do that bullshit. I think that you actually have to just like figure out how you're going to be around the heart of war.

Yeah, like I don't need to be reading Sun Tzu right now. But you mentioned something like you're almost like your brain chemistry kind of changes, I would imagine when you're in this kind of survival element. I mean, you probably brought home stuff after you were saying. You were like little white lies. Like how long did it take you to unwind like that survivor brain? I had to do it way quicker than most because you had to jump right back into law, right? Well, I jumped right back into law.

I married two of my best friends. I officiated their wedding a week later. I'm going to officiate my friend too. Let's go. And then I got married a month and a half after I got back the first time. So I kind of was just dressed. You know, I had to catch back up on wedding planning, all this stuff. We were moving back to New York.

That wasn't like a gunshot that, you know, my job was ending in Columbus. So we knew we were moving back to New York. So it was just like, I had to come back and just be ready to go. This guy on Surveyoran, I'm not a big Survivor guy, but I've definitely seen some episodes over the years. But like, is there anything that you wish you would have known going into Survivor that you didn't know? The voting people off is like, on TV, people are screaming.

Why don't you vote this person off? why don't you do this? It is a horrible exercise in a very difficult environment to begin with. But, you know, imagine if it was like in Summerhouse at the end of every single week, you just had to vote, no matter what bullshit you've gone through, you had to vote somebody out and they can't come back to the house. Horrible. It's crazy.

And like, there's such a big part of the experience. We've had that, like, there's that kind of joking online sometimes about Summerhouse is like, who would you vote off? And I always joke with, you know, anybody press or media or fans. I'm always like, you know, no one wins the summer. Summer House, you know. But if it was, it would be called Survivor House if that was the case. We can pitch that. But, yeah. All right. Now I'm going to get to this, the elephant in the room. You won the million

dollars. Bro, that's insane. So you win a million dollars winning Survivor. Do you get the big check? You get the big check. Like literally the physical big check? Well, you can get a physical check or you can get the direct deposit. Direct deposit. Because I was leaving for season 50, four days after my finale, I had to opt for the direct deposit so Maggie, my wife, could like, I didn't even get to see the money, right, until I got a million dollar, is it a million dollar deposit? Billion dollar deposit. Fuck yeah.

Bing. We have a Charles Schwab account and it like has little graphs and like our bank account went from like this to just like, just like, think the real. Yeah. I just paid taxes on it two days ago. I mean, tell me about that feeling. Just obviously when you won, you found out you won. And then that payday, like come from pretty humble, blue collar, hardworking family,

middle class. And that's a lot of money, man. Were you emotional? at all or was it surreal? I was like everything. I kind of blanked out because I was still on the island. They read the votes live there on the island and I just couldn't believe it. Were you able to call your wife immediately or how long? I had to like we had one more day in Fiji afterwards where I got cleaned up and everything. Then we hopped on a flight that evening. I'm still like shocked that I'm in an airport lights flashing everywhere and everything. And then I like Maggie's flight was delayed because

I flew back to L.A. where my brother lives. That's where everybody flies back to and Maggie was coming from New York. So I had to wait for her. to even get to L.A. and just sit on this secret because I wanted to tell her first before I told my family. God. Is there anything you did with that million do you want to share with our listeners and watchers? I'm sure paid off some stuff too. Oh, paid off debt. I mean, you know, just some family things, some family, bought Taylor Swift tickets as a wedding gift, which that should cost an arm in a leg. I was saying, Taylor's not cheap, but worth it. She's amazing. I mean, someone who's been on reality for now 10 years. I mean, you obviously, you know, you spent a fair amount of time there doing, what, two seasons of

that's season 50. Yeah. Going back that second time, were you used to being on camera now? Or were you like, was it like another adjustment kind of going back again? I was kind of used to it, right?

Like, you're talking to the producers. So in a lot of ways, they're like your therapist out there because you're getting away from all the bullshit and like we're in the moment. I don't know exactly how it is for you guys. It looks like it's after the fact for you guys are like, you know, separate.

But we are like, I'll go straight from camp to being with where everybody's lying to me and then talk to a producer about what I think is going on and what my game is. Yeah, kind of like, confessional conversation, which with our show, we, it's a little different than that. But like, the producers are your best friends and the therapist. And you got to really lean on them and trust

them, kind of let you tell your story. And, you know, they also push you. Yeah. I'm sure. But like, getting used to those cameras, people ask me a lot. Like, do you ever just forget the cameras are there? And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. 100%. And I think the one thing I, after filming wraps, this is like a week, usually after it wraps, I'll like wake up in my apartment in New York and I'll be like thinking that there's cameras in my, like, do you, did you, was there an adjustment kind of coming back down from outer space after that last time? Yeah, yeah. I think that like, just a cadence of having to think about like, how am I going to like summarize what happened to me today. Yeah. And like, oh, man, I feel awful about this or I'm so excited to talk about this. Like,

you don't have that. You talk to your partner. You talk to your friends about the things that you go through, like, you know, on a day-to-day basis. But you don't have it in this like therapeutic realm where at the same time, you know, it's going to be broadcasted to, in this, like, you know, into millions of people. Well, Survivors watched by how many people? Like, you know, millions. I think my finale was like 4.7. Our season 50, there's, like, averaging 6 to 8.

And then that's only cable. And to put in perspective, I mean, Summerhouse is certainly, you know, we've been pretty lucky, but, I mean, we're probably a fraction of some of those numbers, which is, I mean, Bravo has its very excited fan base, but CBS. And, wow. One of the last question about this survivor stuff. Well, not one last, but how is it, like, for real, watching yourself back? Is it hard to see yourself maybe say something you're not proud of, maybe handle a conflict?

Yeah. You know, how do you reconcile that? Because I've struggled sometimes watching myself back, even this current season of Summerhouse, some conflict I'm having with Kyle. It's other Kyle. Yeah. I'm not proud of how I kind of was making certain things. And I always want to be a better version.

How did you navigate watching yourself back? Did you take it as almost like feedback? Or how did you process that? I think that's exactly right. first off, I hated watching myself on TV when I was also pairing that with the internet. So then I cut the internet out entirely. And then I just watched myself on TV. And I still hated it, but it wasn't as toxic because everybody hates the sound of their own voice.

And so we're watching literally you just like moving around. So that's tough. But I think the feedback thing is the most important piece, right? Like I feel as if I, and I wasn't even trying to do this, but I started learning things about myself that I never would have thought otherwise. Yes. Because you almost don't have that like perspective. yourself in a way. Yeah.

Not everybody has footage of them getting into an argument or having a disagreement about, you know, whatever's going on in Survivor at that time. With Survivor, the one other piece that I thought was really powerful is, and I've never been injured like this, but you tore your Achilles on season 50. Jesus, man, what happened? Talked to me about the Achilles. I've had two of my best guy friends, tear Achilles. And for like four months after, they were rolling around in scooters in New York City on one knee,

like the little thing because they couldn't put any weight. So talk to me about the Achilles. Yeah, so on the show, just the TLDR is there's a wall. I'd gone up it, was pulling people up along with my teammate, so I'd ran up it myself. And then we had one teammate who was helping people from the bottom. He couldn't get up. He was slightly older. It's like that wall you climb up over, right?

It's like a wall that you kind of have to scale almost. Yes. But we were also all covered in mud, you know, like survivor stuff. I went back down. We lifted him up, and then I went to go run back up it and pout tore my Achilles. You hear a snap? Yeah. Well, so I didn't hear a snap.

I didn't feel a thing. And I, like, slid down awkwardly, and I was like, what is that? And so I went to go loop back around to get another running start, and I just collapsed. And, you know, I stayed out there for another 36 hours because we didn't know exactly what it was. You said you got medevac out of there? Mm-hmm. Got medevaced. So they pulled me from the game.

And then I within- So does that disqualify? Yeah. So I technically am the second out of season 50. Never been voted out, which is a hilarious statistic. So you actually didn't, yeah. It's a different kind of asterick on your... Yeah. And how's the Achilles now?

I'm doing really well, man. I'm 10 months out. I'm running. You're training for the marathon now. Doing the marathon. Good. Ran four miles this past week. So, like, I'm slow and steady.

Slow and steady. I love that. Well, I want to get into, like, this is something. I met you back at the Threads dinner back in maybe December. Yeah. There was a bunch of us from Summerhouse there and Benito was there. And I met you then. And I didn't fully clock some of your story at that point.

But you mentioned earlier this morning, you're sober, and kind of finding your way with alcohol-free lifestyle. You talk a little bit about that? Where are you got now? Yeah, so I've been five months sober. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. Love it.

Have you trialed sobriety before? Is this a new thing for you? Never like this. Never like this. I mean, you know, like you said, you know, Rone Oak, you know, Salem where I grew up. I've been drinking heavily, you know, since I was like 14, 15. Probably in the woods. Yeah, everywhere.

Campfire, you know. And so this is the longest stretch of time that I haven't, like, drank, you know, anything with respect to alcohol. And I feel great. Like, I think there's a combination of things. First, when I tore my Achilles, I was like, I want to heal as quickly as possible and think about that. Then there's the second thing, which is when Maggie was pregnant, when I found out she was pregnant, I was like, I'm going to have a daughter.

I'm bringing life into this world. And like, I want to be the best version of myself possible. And then the third thing is, like, I still don't know how I define myself, how I look at myself, my relationship with alcohol. And that's okay. Yeah. But I've never, like, there's been, you know, good social moments that have come from it. But anything catastrophic or bad in my life that has really happened.

oftentimes had something to do with alcohol. And so, like, I just don't, I'm at a point in my life where when I, if I take chances, I want them to be good chances. I don't want them to be bad chances that I don't have as much agency over. And right now I feel like I'm just firing on all cylinders. Let me knock on wood. Yeah. Something.

We got some wood right here. Yeah. You'll find it. But I'm firing on all cylinders and I feel happy and healthy. What did alcohol or substances represent before all of this? Was it an escape? Was it like a social thing only? Like, talk to me about it.

Because for me, it became kind of like this armor that I could wear. You know, it gave me confidence. It gave me sometimes relief from conflict, a relationship challenge, a professional issue. Yeah, I think that, like, I've always been a social butterfly. And for me, like, to answer your question squarely, I think it was like a social anchor. If you asked my friends about me, if you asked the people in my community, I think I would very fairly be described as, like, the energy guy. I'm the guy who always has the ox.

I'm the guy who always needs to be, like, getting. people up. I'm very like a sociable person because I love people and that's like the part about myself. Just the Kyle thing. Like all of my favorite Kyle's are like the ox cords, the energy. Like they're the straw that stirs the drink. Yeah. And I think that like at some point I started thinking that one that always was related to alcohol. Not my energy wasn't related to alcohol, but that like sort of always happened in those spaces. Sure. And then two, you kind of start to think that like people are relying on me for this, which is an egotistic. You building a character? You're kind of performing.

Exactly. And like I wasn't happy with that. And I hated feeling that anxiety and what that's like. And it was counterproductive. Right? I'm putting time mentally into that instead of thinking about like work or my relationship or like what I want to do with my life. I'm putting so much mental energy into like, am I fulfilling my role?

Yeah. This role that I think I have. And it's giving you time back. Yes. And I think time is one of the most important things that we have. You know, I think being. hungover, being anxious about what happened the night before, that takes time. So I love that you said that because I'm like nod at my head the whole time what you're saying. I relate to that.

Like, what is your like kind of day-to-day look now? I mean, yeah, I wake up early. Like I've always been a early person. I work out. You know, I have my routines. I journal. I do things like that. And this is pretty much every day. Yeah, every day. What time you wake up every day? I'm a 430 guy. My guy. Yeah. Are you early person too? 536 because here's my hack. Maybe you would agree. No one is texting or calling you for 6 a.m to 9. or 530 to 9 a. because everybody's still sleeping. So you can get shit done, especially as men, get your mind right, get your fitness right, get your body right, show up to the day, ready to go.

And it's also, it's not just like your work is the thing of your day. To me, my morning is like phase one. And then by the time I'm going to the next part of my day, that's phase two. So I don't hate it because it's not my entire life. It's just a part of my life. You kind of need phase one to get to phase two. Because you're going to be kind of a little off track if you don't. So you have a pretty good daily regimen, you would say.

I have a great daily regimen, but I really think it's this, and I think that helps and it anchors me and accuse me consistent. But I think it's this idea that I have something that I'm so looking forward to with both the pregnancy and this app and building a business and like just having something creative to like work towards has made this process easier for me than I expect. They're going to be bumps. You know, I was just in Williamsburg with a friend two days ago. It was a gorgeous day. Everybody's outside where New York people got tattoos. They're smoking cigarettes. Have a glass of rosé.

I'm like, fuck, that looks fun. But I'm like, that's not what I need right now. We got non-alcoholic drinks, my friend. Yeah, yeah, we can do that here at soft bar, right? But I want to ask you, like, hard days. And for someone who's a little further along and all that, I mean, within my first five, six months, I mean, I had that exact same feeling. Sometimes I'd be at an old spot Blue Haven or I talk about these bars a lot. But going back to some of those spots, it was hard to, like, those six, seven months in to, like, really stay strong.

I mean, what keeps you grounded? How do you deal with the hard days? in the last five months. I think one, Maggie is super proud of me. And I think that she supports this. I think having somebody who supports that, whether it's a partner, a friend, somebody that you can call it family member,

I think that's been huge. And I like that we're having this conversation too because I haven't had a chance to think this intentionally about it, but I like that I'm able to do it in the moment right now. Yeah. Well, that's why we're here, my man. I love kind of putting, not on the spot, but just like exploring some of these things

because it's important, I think, to really express. And, you know, like, I think it's important for people to understand. you know, it's not just like this light switch. Yeah, you can stop drinking. You can probably take a couple days off. But like really following that, it takes the spouse, your wife, support or husband's support or whoever it might be.

It takes friends. It takes a daily commitment to it. And it takes these other resources and kind of solutions to help. And I love that you're kind of talking about that. Yeah. And like say, close mouths don't get fed. People first. Carl's a mess.

Like these are all things that. I see what you did. I had to speak that one. I see what you did there. Something I've asked. my guest that I had on the other day, he had a reality TV career and some of it wasn't great. But he has children now. He's a father of three. How do you are going to navigate when you do have your kid this conversation around Survivor being in the public eye? And then kind of like,

how are you, you know, your daughter may not ever see you drink. You know, what do you want your daughter to know about? That to me is such a fun thing. Like that to me, that's what I'm having the most fun in this sort of, this pregnancy is imagining what she's going to be like and what are conversations and relationships going to be like. And I thought about the survivor thing actually the other day. Like, is my daughter when she's in middle school, seventh grade, going to be embarrassed that her friends can go on Paramount Plus and see me running around the jungle in my underwear? And the answer probably is, even if I think I was a good representation on the show, yes, she's going to be embarrassed. And I think I'm just going to have to be like. Yeah, if she's too proud, that it might be a little weird.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, it's going to be. It's going to be like, hey, listen, first off, honey, this pays the bills. And your dad won. But two, I think it'll be just like, it'll be such a great lesson for me to say, like, yeah, sure, there's, there's embarrassing parts of this. I don't think too many for me, but like, I chase my dreams. And I hope that if you get anything from the fact that you can watch me and how I navigate and do these things on the show, that you see me having fun and you see somebody who has consistently gone for what they want in life. And like, that's what I want for you. Like, you can tell I've thought about this because I really want.

Anybody who's in my orbit, and especially for my family members to know that, like, go for it. And I think that's what Survivor was for me. I love this. I want to just, we're getting closer to the end here. Now kind of a chance, like current Kyle, obviously, five months sober, practicing lawyer. You work for Warner Brothers. You're doing cool shit. Like, where are you going to be in five years?

Like, what do you see yourself and how are you going to take this legal? You're advocating. You're doing really cool stuff. I think whether it's the app or whether it's in a legal capacity of, like, I want to own my own thing. Like I admire what you've done here. Like people won't know this, but when we first met, you were scrolling me through, like, the timeline of like when you saw this space and what you wanted and, like, executing on it. And now you have your own thing.

And now we're like sitting here, talking here. And like, I want my own thing and I want the time to be like my own. And so I can decide whether that's allocated to my family, whether that's allocated to work that I'm really interested in and whatever that may be. And I think I'm close to that. I think I'm closer to that than I might like otherwise feel sometimes. I want something that I can call my own and look back on it and say, like, I built that. And maybe that's the application or maybe it's a legal practice. Very cool.

So it's really trying to like, I hate saying this. You are a Renaissance man. You do it all. Yeah, man. And I'm having fun. I'm having fun. Like, I really think this is going to be something that like there's such a loneliness epidemic right now.

And we have got to get on that. And social media helps in some respects, but it's also terrible in some respects. And I really want to kind of capture the best parts of that and like show people that they can go for whatever they want and it's easier when you do it with somebody else. We were talking about loneliness epidemic the other night here. We had a sober conversation with, you know, two very big sobriety advocates and friends of mine and one of the guys made the comment. It was a room full of women and it was just interesting because like here are three men who've,

yeah, I've really hit rock bottom and been through a lot of shit and now gotten sober and really helped. But there's still so many men out there that struggle to ask, struggle to talk about their feelings, struggle to really, you know, be vulnerable. And I'm wondering, you know, you seem to handle vulnerability pretty damn well. Well, can I say something about that? Yeah. Because that was, this is historically not a thing for me at all.

Okay, good. That's what I want to hear. Yeah. And Survivor, I think being out there on the island, but also the TV experience and, like, developing this bond with people. Like, I never told my male friends, let alone, like, many close friends, like, I love you. And I feel as if, like, you know, we were talking about the Bravo thing. We were talking about, like, Survivor and, like, you know, real men loving reality TV.

Like, I think reality. reality TV has a part to play in this. But I've never been like this. Even despite all of the hardships that I've gone through, I hate asking for help. I do not like being vulnerable. I do not like letting people in, even though I'm so extroverted and connect with so many people.

And I mean, it's so crazy how productive and better your life can be when you are vulnerable with people. And would you say, is it as scary as men think it is? No, no, not at all. I mean, the act of it, but like, it's like anything else. you have to work on it. You have to actually do it and open up to people and say, I love you.

And also talk about the things about your life that you're scared about. And it becomes easier and easier as you do. Another comment from the other night was like it's your greatest deficits or your biggest assets. Yeah. And I think sometimes men, you know, we have things underneath that we feel like we'll be judged about or we'll be looked at differently or people won't like us or women won't want to date us. But what I've realized in the last five years is the vulnerability. actually allowed people to like really know who I am and it attracts more than it turns off

because people really know the full story. And I think that's it's been cool to kind of be not a pioneer by any stretch, but someone who kind of has been a more of a public share of vulnerability and sensitivities. And I also just love you doing that. It's important for men to see that. And I think the more you continue to do, it's going to help a lot of people. Yeah, dude. I mean, what's cool about you, Carl, like I said, I came into Summerhouse in the middle and you got to go back and watch by man. But like you talk frequently about the things that you've gone through. And I think like allow, I wish I could have seen the entire arc. Yeah. I wish I could say, because it almost like the earlier version. And I, an example I'll give is like when I joined

Summer House, what I had this vision of what I wanted to talk about and the person that I wanted you to know. That was a character of what I thought I was versus like what was really being portrayed and who I really was at that point was a drunk and a party boy and kind of a womanizer and not a great version of who I wanted to be. But it's interesting now in the last five or six years where I'm more like, I'm not afraid to talk about some of the dark stuff. And it's like the things you don't want to talk about is exactly what you should talk about. And the things you want to talk about, they don't care. The more we can talk about those uncomfortable things, the much better we are. So I, yeah, I applaud you for doing what you're doing. So cool. Well, we're getting

to an end here. What is giving you more life right now? What is giving me more life? The fact that I'm about to have a kid. Yes. I know. It's probably a stupid question. No, no, no. Appreciate you being here today, man. Dude, thank you. I would, one last question. I have it written down here. You ready for this? Let's go. Which Bravo cast member do you think would be, or make for the best survivor? Oh, wow. So I actually. And that you don't have to select me. I'm kind of a sensitive king. I got asked this the other day, and I actually landed on Asia. I think, I hope I pronounce her name right, right? From below deck.

She's awesome. I'm friends with her. I'm thinking like Summer House for some reason. Oh, you want me to do Summer House? No, I said Bravo cast member. So it could be Bravo. You answered the question right. I was hoping you would say Summer House.

I'm going to go Asia. I feel like she is just super go with the flow, but also can like, she has authority in a lot of respects, but it's not like in a commanding sort of way. And that's like a lot of survivors, like finding authority without being blatant about it. I think that, and she's just kind of a goofball from what I've seen. I don't watch Blowdeck as much, again, Summerhouse Guy. But I think that she would be my pick. Kyle, it's really, really cool to talk to you, man.

I honored you took the time to come to Brooklyn. Well, you live in Brooklyn, but took the time to come here to softbar. Congratulations on all the things you're doing. It's really cool to see someone go through so much variety of history, experiences, and the way you audit and talk about it is really powerful. And I applaud you, man. Dude, thank you, Carl. Well, thank you for coming in.

Thank you guys for being here today on MoreLife. Where can people find you if they want to access more Kyle Frazier? Do you have a website or anything, Instagram? Yeah, just on Instagram. At Kyle Fraser, there's no E in the last name. Couldn't get that handle, but K-Y-L-E-F-R-A-S-R-A-S-R. Out there on IG. Appreciate you, man.

Thanks for coming in today. I'll check you guys again soon. Thanks so much. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel, an executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz and recorded at softbar studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony music entertainment.

From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino. Set design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. And a special thanks to Alison Shano and Joanna Orland. new episodes drop every Tuesday.

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