More Life with Carl Radke - The Valley’s Tom Schwartz on Conflict Avoidance and Reinvention

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

Carl and Tom Schwartz have known each other for a decade, and it shows. Tom Schwartz (Vanderpump Rules, The Valley) joins Carl on More Life to get into his return to Bravo and how he’s changed post-Vanderpump Rules, the new love bringing his sparkle back, closing TomTom, and the family chapter unfolding off-camera. It's vulnerable, funny, and full of the kind of hard-won wisdom only Tom Schwartz can deliver. This one’s a good reminder that reinvention is always possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke, and welcome to more life. Today on the show, we've got Tom Schwartz. Yes, Tom Schwartz, you know him from Vanderpump Rules. He is also on The Valley, which has a new season out right now. It is awesome. It's amazing, great TV. But Tom is a podcaster. He's got detox retocks.

He's a business owner. I'm excited to dive into this chat today, guys. We're coming live today from Soft Bar here in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Tom Schwartz. Hi, brother. Welcome in, my man. Dude, before we get started, can I just give you? you your flowers. This place is so

tasteful. I walked in. I've seen the pictures, but now seeing it in person, not just seeing it, but feeling it, it's so beautifully executed. Thank you, man. Executed. I appreciate you. The branding, everything. Like I noticed, like just the stools. I don't know what material the bar top is, but I love it. It was a custom concrete that we had poured specifically and colored for our soft bar green. Yes. But one of my favorite little Easter eggs is like my logo soft with the big bar. Yeah. In our van out front, which it was our first

location, I joke around. The long green bar, we have the long green bar in the bar. So like there's little Easter eggs of like that intention of the logos and the brand. Yeah. That kind of shines through a little bit in the space. Very attention. I remember reaching out to you because, listen, man, you know a thing or too about a bar and opening one up. Yeah. I remember reaching out to you and you gave me some incredible advice. It was the summer of 2024. And I remember telling Kyle, I'm like, dude, we should get Schwartz to come to the house next weekend. And we started like just saying it out loud and believe it or not, you came to the house next weekend. And I remember pulling you aside and be like, can you give me some advice about opening this bar? And you were like, make sure you have a clear

plan. Because I think when you and Tom kind of got started, you had a plan and then midstream, some of the designs, some of that. We had a general vision. We had the 2D rendering, but not the 3D rendering. Get the 3D rendering. I was like, know where every plug's going to be. Like really put a lot of thought into this. We had the vision, the dream. It made for so many easily avoidable mistakes along the way and ended up costing us so much money.

And for here, like, we had a pretty clear plan going in. But what was beautiful is we had this vision that we stuck to. I was able to, from the beginning of construction, until the day we opened, it was about six months. Which, because of that clear plan, we didn't really double back. One other recommendation, maybe you said this or other people, said it, but don't name your bar after yourself. I mean, unless you're Lisa Vanderpom.

Yeah, you can get away with it. Or Gordon Ramsey. I still think Schwartz and Sanis is a good name. Honestly, I think it was a great name. Maybe I was a little too hard on it, but like, maybe. What were the other workshop? I watched your show. I love your show, but.

Maybe I'm clairvoyant. Maybe I knew we were doomed. We put our names. Yeah, well, we're going to get into your virtue signaling on some other stuff here in this conversation today. I'm not going to captain hindsight, you guys. But, well, Schwartz, thanks for being here. I want to get into some stuff.

Dude. Congrats on the Valley. Yeah. I love your Valley crew. You guys were out at my book signing in The Grove. Tom Schwartz hosted my book signing. He was an amazing moderator. Thank you for doing that.

Dude, that's really sweet. I was so honored that you asked me. No, it was special because I've known you for almost 10 years now. You know, I remember when we first did season one of Summer House, we were just talking about that before we started, which is the crossover. You know, Katie, Sheena, Kristen, Stasi, they come out to the Summerhouse. Kyle and I didn't really know who the hell they were. I remember Stasi talking about working at a restaurant.

I was kind of like looking at Kyle like, these girls work at a restaurant. I was such an asshole. And then Kyle famously gets in the hot tub with Stasi and calls her Steve Jobs. I remember that like it was yesterday. Ironic. But season two, you and Katie came and visited.

We did. And I'll never forget this trip because we were so excited you guys were coming. But you had been, I think, in Mexico previously. Tom Schwartz went to the hospital in the Hamptons. They didn't really cover this too hardcore. on the show. They touched on it. A little bit. They alluded to it. I don't think they used

the medical terms. I don't even know if we want to revisit that. We don't have to if you don't want to, but if you can just give us like a small little... Let me think about it. Do I even want to say it out loud? It's okay. Just perennial obsess. And that was from like Montezuma's revenge in Mexico? I think so. It will come from a variety of reasons, but yeah, like put pushing to. We don't have to get into it. If it makes you feel any better, a fair amount of us at the summer house have been to

that hospital that you went to. Okay, so I learned a new term. Shout out to my girlfriend, Kiana. She taught me a term called liminal. Liminal. It's like kind of backrooms, scary, kind of uncanny valley. Am I articulating it right? I'm looking for...

A validation? Yeah. She's not giving you a validation. Listen, not that it was, the people there weren't lovely, but like we went there after midnight and it felt very backrooms, very liminal. And I was going in there very insecure, knowing that people were going to be probing my but and as luck had it or not luck wait hold on a sec was that a ferreidian slip no no it was not um no i was it was very unfortunate that although the the guy who was inspecting me was lovely

he just had massive hands and he had some let's start this interview over no um so good okay well nonetheless it was really uncomfortable man i've never experienced anything i got on my life and it just i was in true pain like i again Meganizing pain. Sorry, we're going to get into the rest of this interview. But I love you for showing. I just had to cross that because I feel like that's such a great moment for you guys when you would come support us.

We had so much fun. But then, obviously, you had a tough time. But you still were a trooper. You still showed up. I had so much. You still had a good time. Genuinely, Carl, you guys treated to me. You guys welcomed me with open arms.

I feel like you would almost be nothing against your West Coast crew. But I feel like you're a better fit over here. Thanks, that's just my personal up. And speaking up, I've always thought this. I think Stasi might have said this or forget who it was over the years. Maybe Sheena. Do you think the Valley cast would film if it was like Summerhouse being filmed with cameras in their houses, cameras, you know, bedrooms, cameras in the surveillance. I often contend, well, the only two shows on Brava that are filmed this way are below deck and Summerhouse.

I often contend if the Valley or Banderpump was done in that fashion, you guys would be like, fuck this, I'm not doing it. Because it's like so invasive. You said it perfectly. Did you use the word surveillance? Surveillance. That's a powerful word. And that's kind of how it feels. It's unnerving. Although you guys make it, like, I love you guys so much. And you're so cool to me and so welcoming and loving that the fact that we're being surveilled 24-7 sort of dissipates. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, talk me through that first time you came to the house and you saw like, you're like, it was unsettling. And even for a guy who'd been on four or five seasons of reality TV at that point. I was essentially a pro at that point. And you were like, seasoned. And it was very intimidating. I'm like, It's not the only safe place.

Not even like pantry anymore. No, they put a camera in the pantry. That's an old school reference. You know your stuff, brother. But the bathrooms are the only safe place. And they can still hear you. Oh, my God. They can hear your P-stream.

One thing that I don't think I ever talked about, I remember at that time, I don't really get anxiety anymore. Thank God or universe or whoever. But I used to like really struggle with anxiety. And like the first thing that I started to low-key panic about, I was like, I can't sleep without the TV on. I need the TV on. And you guys can't sleep with the TV's on.

We don't have TVs in the house. You can't play anything that's not cleared. I asked the producer season one, why don't we have a TV in the house? And he looked at me like I was dumb and he was like, Carl, it's not interesting to watch you guys watch TV. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Because I want to like put on a baseball game on Sunday when we had like nothing to do for a minute. He's like, no. I'm like, why?

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Just so you know, Tom, this podcast is called More Life. And it's a question that I ask all my guests, because it's something that I love to say, and it's something I've embodied in kind of a mantra. I'm curious, does Tom Schwartz have anything? You blurt out to your friends, your family, drunk and sober. First thing that pops to mind, it might seem like a little trite. And I think I'd actually be from Dr. Seuss, but is probably better a life of O. Wells than what ifs. Better life of O. Wells than what ifs.

And that's a Seuss quote? It's a mantra. It's a motto. It's just I know that if I never would have resigned from my job, I worked for a distributor in Florida. If I would have never resigned from my job and made that. leap of faith, no clue how I was going to afford to live here. I knew nobody in L.A. But if I would have never done that and taken a shot at acting, I would have regretted it the rest of my life. Even if I moved back in a year after I moved to L.A. or two,

just take that chance. You know what I mean? Just for people who may not be familiar with Tom Schwartz, I know you very well, consider you a good friend. I love watching you guys. I've seen you put a lot out there ups and downs. But before you got on Vanderpump, you said you were working at an alcohol distributor, right? I went to F-S-U, shout out to the... Shout out to the Knowles. F-O-O-R-I-D-A, S-T-A-T-E,

F-A-T-A, F-A-E, F-A-E, okay. In college, I was having an identity crisis, I knew what I wanted to do deep down. Maybe that's my advice. I wish I would have just had more conviction what I felt in my heart and soul from a young age.

I was, like, embarrassed of the fact that I wanted to be an actor and a performer. But, okay, I want to get in some more stuff about Schwartz, and we can ask me more questions. Yeah, sorry if I'm jumping around. No, you're fine. I have a podcast.

I should know, Tom. Oh, that's why I'm here. No change. And I have an amazing producer who keeps me in track, too. Thank you. Shout out to Annie. But I love talking to you. There's so many directions we could go.

Well, I want to get into, like, so you, how did you choose Florida State? Okay. So you knew deep down, maybe you wanted to perform. But instead, I went with exercise physiology. My dad's dream was for me to be a baseball player. And then I quit playing baseball after he invested like five years. It did me, Dad. I'm sorry.

He's actually in the hospital right now. He's actually going into surgery right now. now. Oh, wow. I just got a text. It's long story. We don't have to go there. Well, sending love to your pops. Thanks, brother. It's been on again, off again, but he's got like fluid building up in his brain. Shit. Like, his shunt isn't working properly. Anyways, I'm compartmentalized right now, so I'm good. But thanks, thank you. If you need some space or time, you know, feel free. But he wanted me to be a baseball player. And I had such, like, he's such a good dad. Like I worked for a distributor after college. And you graduated, though. I did. I graduated.

It is. I graduated. I thought you're going to high five me. Well, now I am. Deep down, the whole time, I was scheming. I was going to make enough money and I was going to move to L.A., take that leap of faith, and then pursue acting. And that's what I think. What year did you move to L.A.? 2009? 2009. How quickly until you got to, like, L.A., are you now acting and getting into the world, or did it take some time?

It took some time. So Tom Sandoval was the first person I ever met. We met on Craigslist. I don't think I knew this. Oh, you didn't know this? Tom Sandoval. You were just looking for friendship? I was just looking for roommates. It was a Craigslist slash, like, I'm roommate seeker or something. and I made like a little...

Shout to Craigslist. I made a little bio and then me and Tom hit it off and then I saw him and I was like dude this guy's doing everything I want to do. I feel you wouldn't want to hit up or talk to another Tom. Like that would be like you see a Tom name?

You're like I'm Tom, I don't, I'm good. I'm gonna go to the next listing. No, it was comforting. He's like, your name's Tom. My name's Tom. Our last name's both start with S. And after that, the rest is history. No, we actually hit it off.

And like, so he like hyped me up. It got me excited. Tom has done so much for me. I love that man. I know it's a complicated, of course. Long friendship we've had, but he'll always be family to me.

That man has done so much. He was so integral to my transition into L.A. Him and, well, okay, I don't know how deep you want to go here, but Tom was living with Kristen when I first got to L.A., and they were very happily in love, and I became really close to them. And then, like, the way I remembered,

it was like six months later, Tom was like, yo, listen, like, we're struggling right now. Like, what do you think about one of my buddies? that I used to model with moving into the living room to help us like be offset rent and I was like yeah that's sure as long as he's not too much of a presence and then in marks jacks taylor and then as long as he's not too much of her presence and the rest is history but no those guys were all so helpful to me they helped me get like my first pictures like head shots I was never really like a model I'm a terrible model you guys saw the Carl probably doesn't he doesn't know about this reference no

do you guys it haunts me to this day old vander pump reference actually actually an okay model, but like... I've seen some modeling pixie. I thought you were legit. I was never a model, but I did it to pay the bills. And in my mind, it was one step closer to fulfilling the dream. Exactly. But you didn't, getting on a show like Vanterpump wasn't on your bingo. It was more like

you wanted to be on like ABC Lost or... Exactly. I wanted to be on a procedural. I never wanted to be a star or a movie star. I didn't even want to do movies. I wanted to be on a procedural, just like you said. But never in my wildest dreams that I ever think I would end up on reality TV. I was kind of a low-key hater. Bill Langworthy, our executive producer, famously created The Hills, which is one of the biggest shows ever on MTV. And I remember being a hater. I did not like that show. And I remember... Because you, because you maybe wanted to be on it or...

No, I was just like, like, I would never do that. I'm an artist. I'm an actor. Meanwhile, I had no acting credits whatsoever, Carl. Like I... I'm like you. I was like, I want to be, like, I always look down on maybe the Bravo world or I didn't know enough about it. There was a stigma attached to reality TV back in the day. Now you could be a superstar. It's totally shifted. But like in my mind back in the day, if I was going to be on reality TV, it would forever compromise my artistic integrity. That's how I thought. Yeah. I mean, again, like I had done maybe one non-union commercial for like Modello at that point. Check out my Modelo commercial. And fast forward now. Yeah. You were on a second show. Well, you've been on multiple shows that, you know, you've done a special forces. You've had winter house,

cameos, you've had your summer house. Oh, wait, Sandoval did special forces. You're right. I did, um, What was the Earth Mars? Dude, did you watch it? Yes. You watched it? Of course. Oh, there's no way. Dude, I love you, man.

It was such a niche show. You were in like a-stars on Mars. It was like a CGI meets like one of those like Nickelodeon shows. It was like very interesting to watch. I will say it was one of the most unique and unforgettable, amazing experiences of my life. You guys stars on Mars. Like they treated us like I felt like I was Brad Pitt. I want to get into like your TV career.

So you get on Van der Pump rules. But I want to talk about the current, like how many seasons of Vanderpump had there been? 13. We did 11 seasons. I think in total 224 episodes. Holy shit. You know what I just realized I'm doing watch what happens live. I don't know when this is going to air. I'm in the 15 plus club. Watch what happens. Are you? Same brother. No way. Let's go. My bike's in the way. That's insane. Carl, like just to do it once is a gift from God. Like it's such a cool experience to get to hang out with Andy Cohen. He's every bit as cool as you think he's going to be. He's like, I love him. I still get star struck around him, even though he's kind of right. I'm always a little nervous

around. Even when I text him and his name is saved as Andrew Cohen, because that's how he saved it. I'm like always a little like I'm like, cheapish. Yeah. That's not I get like a Rod Lisa still. That's why I think he likes you so much because he knows. I love Andy, but he knows you respect him and you love him. And I love Andy. He's giving me so much opportunity. He's the man. He's giving me so much going on that show. He does like he will bust my balls, but I deserve it. You deserve it. And same. Also, he's always asked him on my family. He checks in on me. Like I, shout out to Andy. He's such a sweet, genuine human being. We're going to get Andy on more life at some point. Oh, hell yeah. I want to get to like, because you're currently now in the Valley, which is in, what, season three? I live in the Valley. I'm on the Valley. I'm so lucky and so happy to be on the show. Hating myself so far, I just seem so awkward.

There's reasons why. As an awkward guy, I'm right there with you. I was going through some weird things. And that's okay. But I think, like, just to catch our audience up who aren't, you know, familiar, you've been on Vannert Pump for 11 seasons. You had been married to Katie. You guys got been divorced.

Again, we've seen some of this play out, but sorry to kind of bring it up again. No, it's okay. But the way you've kind of navigated post-divorce, this Valley show, can you talk to me about the differences of Vannertump and the Valley? Like, is it feels the same or does it feel a little bit different? Does it feel like a new, fresh start for you? That's a great question, but now that I hear the raindrops on the roof, could we maybe just take a little schnooser?

Yeah. Like a little five minutes now. No, honestly. You can actually hear it a little bit. It's really nice. The 2006 Chevrolete Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. by J.D. Power. is designed for your everyday. And with available all-wheel drive,

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Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it, like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to.

And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising. You're among fans. I'm so grateful to Bravo for asking me to be on The Valley because it's a group of people that I already knew. It felt like the most organic possible transition into another show on Bravo,

as awkward as I was in the beginning. And I'm cringing watching myself. It's a long story. If I can relate to what you're talking about is, you know, for me, once post-breakup of Lindsay, it took me some time to, and I know it's been a few years now, but you've been dating, you've had a business, you've had Scanaval. It took some time to, like, kind of get back to yourself.

Do you feel like you're getting closer and closer to, like, who Tom really is? You just nailed it. Yeah. Like, that's just exactly what I was going to say. I felt like I lost my identity for a while. When you get into a relationship, you get married, and, like, you have all this other stuff, like, you can sometimes lose yourself a little bit.

So much of my identity was wrapped up in the bars, my marriage, even though I wasn't always a great husband, but it meant a lot to me, and I loved Katie dearly, in my house. Like, I had a dream house. I had a sick house in the valley with a pool. Like, that could have been a forever home. Like, I had a lot of my identity wrapped up in that.

And then when it all dissipated, and not just that, like, the stuff with my family completely, like just fell apart, like my dad and my brother, like so many reoccurring near-death experiences, which wreaks havoc on your life a lot. Of course. It's like, yeah, and then I did my best, but it just weird.

Like everything I, everything that was Tom Schwartz that I knew that I guess I'd worked so hard to attain. It just sort of like dissipated, which is like a powerful. It was almost like one huge breakup in a weird way. But then you're kind of getting, you're kind of rewinding and starting fresh again. Of course, with some of the same faces in people. Yeah. But in a different way. And it's, no, I'm so, like, I had so much fun filming that.

And I'm so grateful. I had the best time. It's cool to see you, I mean, in your post-divorce life and post-Schorts and Sandy's life, you seem a lot more happy. And I know when we saw you guys trying to get the bar open and then you and Katie posts everything, your trips to Mexico and all the stuff.

But like you finally seem like you're kind of finding your own path. And I just love like kind of seeing that. Did Vanderpump like teach you anything about yourself? Well, Lisa Vanderpump taught me some things. Most importantly, don't open a bar in Los Angeles. I'm sorry to laugh, but this is such a, I can hear her saying that. No, I mean, I don't want to put words in her mouth.

but like it's brutal. And I know it's really hard here too, but like it's just, Carl, I'm so freaking proud of you. This place is so beautiful. Thanks. I could honestly cry.

I'm so, it's so effing beautiful here. And it's like, this business will chew you up and spit you out. If you don't know what you're doing or if you're not properly bankrolled, or you just don't have a clear vision

or you're not fully dedicated, it can just absolutely chew you up and spit you out and take control, complete control of your whole life. I feel like, I don't know if I'm a cautionary tale. I feel like it was a lesson learned, a very expensive lesson learned.

I mean, do you have regrets about all that? No. No, I fulfilled a dream. I would always... Better a life of O' Wells. That's a big O'L. Yeah, big. I'm glad you guys went for it.

That's a big O'W. That's a dozy. And if anything, you showed, I think other people, you know, like you said, the lessons learned, the mistakes that can be made. Are you going to do another bar, do you think? Being in here with you right now, I hate to say it, but it's kind of inspiring me, man. Maybe we do a soft bar meets Schwar. and cities. Softbar goes hard.

Los Angeles. Soft bar goes hard. West Taliwood, baby. It does go hard. Listen, but we'll talk. We'll talk off. Yeah, no. But I'm curious like for your career now. Like, I know you're filming and you do all sorts of stuff. Like, what's next for Tom? It's scary. I'm like on the

cusp of completely reinventing myself, I think. I mean, I'm always going to be Tom. But like, professionally, I'm going in a completely different direction. I think that's important for people to hear this because scary. Everybody thinks that age 40, 42, whatever, you got it all figured out. I'm 41. I'm just now feeling like myself again and feeling like I'm really going down the

path I'm supposed to be going. Some of the things that occurred of the last four or five years, yes, have been really difficult in ups and downs, but they've all kind of steered me closer to where I feel like I'm supposed to be. Carl, I love that you said that. Should we do like a timeline, age, panic, PSA, you guys, like people in your 20s and your 30s, if you're watching this, you might not have it all figured out when you hit 40. And like you might, maybe you're a baller, maybe you're knocking down 10, 20 million a year, but maybe you're completely unfulfilled in your relationship or vice versa, just letting you know it's okay.

By the way, isn't it? I feel great in my 40s. I think 40s are the new 20s. Because you know what you want. You know what you don't want. Yeah. I think I'm a little bit wiser. And I just, I feel like I've learned some shit.

And like invaluable kind of life experiences that really inform your 40s. You're just a little bit more comfortable. Totally. I feel great in my own skin. Do you have your sparkle back now? Shout out to Brittany. I can't do a Britney impression, but I love Britney. I think a large part of my sparkle is coming from my girlfriend.

Shout out to your girlfriend. How long has been together now? I think we just hit the seven month, month, miles out. Seven months, baby? I know. We've been seven months here at Softbar. So we'll be pacing along with this hexane. That's a beautiful thing.

But that's, shout out to Kiana, because that's, she's just been such an uplifting, like, presence in my life. she's so hilarious and wise beyond her years and just effing cool. And anyway, I just wanted to give her a little shout out. Having someone like that can understand the world you're from, the world you've been in, you know, you're still friendly with Katie, your ex-wife. Love Katie. She's got the dogs right now. I love that.

So, yeah, shout out to the dogs. You know, and shout out to Katie. You know, we've known Katie for years. And I love that you guys have been able to navigate friendship post-divorce. And I kind of relate to some of seeing what Lindsay and I kind of are in, right. now in Summerhouse. It's beautiful. Isn't it feel good? Yeah, it feels really good. Because of course, you love, you still love Katie. I love Lindsay. I care for her deeply. I want the best for her. And that period of time where you don't have that friendship. You know, Katie was your best friend.

Yeah. Lindsay was my best friend. When the breakup happens, you kind of just like, it evaporates. And there was a big adjustment for me because I understand why, but it took time to like restart that kind of friendship a little bit. And we're getting closer and closer. And we've had some really nice bonding moments for you. Like, how is it navigating like your friendship with Katie and then also this beautiful relationship that you have developing? Well, it's like we're just, we're still close, but like we have like such a cordial distance.

Like we see each other still love. Yeah. I have nothing but fond memories. Like maybe I don't like to be revisionist history. Remember the good stuff. Yes. And I do that with, with Lindsay and I. And that's what's the laughing and the jokes.

And you and Katie still laugh at stupid shit. Yeah. my balls and stuff. And it's just like, we have a good banter. And, like, it makes me so happy to see her thriving with her new, like, she's killing it on her podcast. She's got her other business ventures. She's really happy and in love. That makes me happy. That's huge. But it did take a while to get there. And it sucked when it all just kind of was gone. It's like, you, but on the latest episode of the Valley, you hear Michelle and Lala talking about this. It's just like, you think about, at one point, this person was your everything. Yeah. Like your, your twin flame.

You would do anything for them. You're madly in love so much to the point where you have a child with this person. And like Jesse and Michelle. And then all of a sudden, like in a blink of an eye, it feels like you hate each other. Yeah. And you're going through a divorce and custody battles. It can feel so bleak and it's easy to get jaded. But I'm happy to report.

Like the stakes weren't as high for me and Katie. Sure. But it's just as sad. And I don't feel jaded at home. You had animals. You have family. You have friends. You guys were as entangled as it gets, other than not having kids.

which in a weird way maybe is what allowed some of this post-divorce to be a lot more copacetic and healthy. Totally. Was there anything you learned after the divorce with Katie, like well after it ended that maybe you wish you had known? Sometimes I look back and I'm like, did I fail that marriage? There was parts of it where I was just kind of a putts. Yeah. And I just... Hey, it was the first time you were married, man.

Or did you been married before? No, no, no. That was first time. I'm married twice, but to the same person. That's right. We got married in Caesars too. That's right. Because that's a long story.

You guys have had some wild-ass TV. Let me think, Carl, before I, like, just keep yapping, what did I learn? Well, I learned to be a better communicator for sure. And, like, I don't know. I used to, like, when someone was upset or angry, I used to be such an avoidant person.

I would, like, run away. If not literally, internally. You know what I mean? Yeah. I can be in conflict-avoidant at times, too. And it's something that is shown on summer. house for sure. I almost feel like the show kind of exposes more. Am I always like that? No, but like at a party where everybody's wasted and flipping out, like I might be, yeah. Like it's not like always,

but no, you're matured. I appreciate being honest about the conflict avoidant thing because I, I mean, I've seen you on the show and you can tell sometimes you're having more of an inner monologue than you are outwardly. Yeah, I just used to be like, like when people are upset, I love when people vent to me now. I'm like, let it out. Let's talk about it. You're a safe space. Where I, especially Katie, like, I figure it out, chill out. Like, I used to be so, like, dismissive. And I'm just not like that anymore. I don't know.

I don't know. Did you learn anything from watching yourself back on these moments with Katie or in other, like, I'll give an example. Like, athletes watch film. Yeah. You know, it's weird, but. Study in the tapes. Study in the tapes. I will watch our episodes, not unlike that, where the conflict avoidant or how I'm delivering

something I'm really feeling or reactions. navigating these conversations, do you watch either Vanderpump or the Valley and go, that's not how I wanted to do that, and I'm going to try my better next time. Against my will, but I don't go back and study the tapes. Yeah, I'm not like taking notes.

I'm not Brady. That's why Brady's the goat. You watched all the tapes. I just think I was dealing with a lot of first, even though I was a late bloomer, and I was still in my mid-late 30s, and I didn't handle it well. And I just was immature.

I was immature, not Peter Pan syndrome. Just immature. Sorry. That's your subject. That was pretty poignant there. I just was like a late bloomer and I didn't. I'm a late bloomer too, Tom. Yeah.

You're handling it so elegantly and I love seeing you thrive. I think nothing wrong with being a late bloomer. I don't know if I want to point out specific things in my marriage that I regret. I just wish I would have been a better communicator and a better listener. And they'd not been so quick to like judge and be logical when people are upset, which is so annoying. Do you give yourself any grace in this? Yeah, I give myself a ton of grace because there was like... Do you ever like hit up Katie out of nowhere and be like, hey, like,

I've just thought of like something weird from five, ten years ago and like apologize to her? Out of respect for her new... No, I don't. But maybe there's times that like I wake up at three in the morning. I'm like, uh, ring on a string at Sheena's wedding. Bro, what the? Although I think it was still a cute concept, just poorly executed for the record. Sorry.

Classic. Classic. I think you said you've never thought you'd be in your 40s. without kids. Oh. And here you are. How are you kind of navigating or how you, how does that feel as you were approaching, you know, more of your 40s and getting a little further along.

I mean, I start thinking about it because I have all my, most of my guy friends are married with two or three kids now. And would I trade places with them? No. Would they trade with me? Maybe. On any given day. Any given day.

But I, of course, want to have a family. I do want to get married. I do want to have a, like, build a family and all that. Is that something in your future still? I hope so. But it's not like a big. The big priority? The biological, well, that's a...

The male biological clock? Thank you for the quality. If that exists. It's that, I do, like, you know, I do, I don't know. I don't want to get too... Like, sometimes I'm like, oh my God, even if I have a kid right now, I'm going to be an old dad. Like, that kind of sucks. But wouldn't you feel like being an older dad, you'll be able to show up in a more profound way for your children

because you've, being a late bloomer, you've worked through some of those things that maybe would have been, it would have shifted how you were as a father if you were younger. Well, I hope, I hope if things go according to plan. like there'll be fiscal stability and like I'll be able to not focus so much on work and be able to really like hone in and be a great dad and a family man be present more yeah because you'll be now you've hopefully got a little bit more money saved you're more further along in life and I feel like that's where I'm going to be in life where I'm going to be really being able to show up for my kids be the coach rides sleepovers hosting like all like the dad stuff like I want that so bad

I feel like you do too you just said it perfectly like the little things like yeah like taking your kids to the ball game or to like dance. Just being the ultimate dad. I think that's a big, like one of my overarching storylines this season in the Valley, just like wrestling with that, man, I never thought I would be in my 40s and not have the white picket fence and kids.

Do you talk to Jesse about this? I mean, he's got a kid, but it's co-parenting. Yeah, I do. I do. And we've had some great conversations with him and. I love, I really like Jesse. Jesse's the man. I've built a nice friendship with him.

Jesse is very smart, very intelligent. I love seeing how he, like being he's newer in this world, but his perspective on it, it's so interesting just because you've been around for a while, I've been around for a while. But he's a smart dude. So it's like, it's cool to hear him talk about how this whole thing. He really is. And you can tell, I know sometimes, even in the past, like he's rubbed people the wrong way. And I think he used to be a little more unsavory. I don't know. Or just like, but he's, he can tell he's put work into himself. He's gone to therapy. Just, he's really done a lot of self-reflecting. He has so much humility now. Yeah. It's almost impossible.

not to like them. Humility is everything. You have a lot of humility too. Thanks, bro. It's a great quality of people. I mean, I think sometimes in my travels, people will come up to me and talk to me at the Valley and they'll be like,

I think Jesse's a douche, but I love him still. I hear that a lot. I don't think Jesse's a douche. Women say that to me. They're like, I really like him. I think that's what I get sometimes. I like Carl, but he's still kind of like a dork. You're still not a douche.

Sometimes. I still have it in. I want to get in some friendship stuff. Let's do it, yeah. You've been watching a little bit. to Summerhouse maybe this season? Yes. What do you think?

Dude. Yes. That was a great instant change of reaction. I think just loving you guys, not thinking of you guys as a cast, but all the good times I've had with you guys. And like, there's just so much love and there's so much authenticity and like there's rich, deep, meaningful friendships. And when I saw that, I was like, oh, God, this could jeopardize their whole dynamic. I mean, you might have virtue signaled hardcore.

And Thomas Schwartz came to the summer house. We ran into Tom, and I alluded to this earlier in the combo, but we ran into you at a party in the Hamptons. You were there with Patron. Kyle and I were like, yo, we should get him to the house. And we said something to the producer, and the next weekend you were there. We had an epic weekend at the summer house.

And you went into the girls' bedroom at one point, the bedbugs, Paige, Sierra, Amanda. And you were like, cherish this moment. You never know. Well, at first of all, that was just straight from my heart. Well, that's why it's so ridiculously on point because you were just being, Tom. Because you were so right, though, like, we should be cherishing what we have.

And, like, this friend group is so important to us. You need to, like, show everybody loved to. And remind each other how much, like, how cool this is we get to do this. And how lucky we are? How lucky? So, listen, how are you, by the way, with this whole thing? What's why I wanted to ask you? I mean, you have gone through arguably one of the biggest...

Don't say it. Don't say the esword. I'm not going to say it. You guys went through a very large S-word. I feel like we're kind of in a similar thing now. It's very different, obviously. for a variety of reasons. How did you handle, like, navigating that?

Like, it's hard, like, publicly. Because, like, if you say anything about Sandoval, you're like, oh, Schwartz is an asshole. Even though you have a history and, like, it's really hard. Can you talk about, like, those intense... I felt like my entire identity and humanity and humanity got stripped away, and I got, like, boiled down and reduced to, like, an accomplice

or a guy who knew. It's like, all of a sudden I became a side character in another person's movie. that's how I felt I was like all of my shortsness was stripped away and people were like trying to like nail me on like timelines

and stuff. Yeah. Well you're naturally like a peacekeeper and like the con like you maybe can keep the conflict at bay. I wish I could, I don't know if I could go back in time what would I do differently?

Oh God, why did I ask myself that? I don't know what to say. It's good to reflect. Hindsight's 2020, obviously. Is there anything that you could give if you've reached up to Cal at all? I mean, I know you're talking.

I saw him a few weeks ago. No, I didn't see you. No, you didn't see me. I saw him, he was at Rockos. Yes. And me and Keanu popped in. I just gave him a hug. I feel like most of our exchanges

have been like nonverbal. It's like love. And he's okay. And sometimes that's all they need. I try to do the same for him. But like, is there any advice you can maybe give me, Kyle, the rest of the group as we navigate? I remember like this happened when our thing he happened,

that's word. And I remember when you're, when you're going through it and you know you've made a grave mistake and you've really messed up and jeopardized like very meaningful, loving relationships. I think like the natural thing to do is deflect and like kind of focus on, I don't know, dates or like incongruities or like correcting people on like small details. You know what I mean? Because it gives you like a little, when you know you've effed up majorly.

It gives you like a little sense of like control. I just, I wanted to kind of poke around that because I'm going into the reunion this week. Are you, this is going to be insane. It's going to be insane. But I feel it's a necessary thing that we have to do this. But I always have felt like our show holds ourselves. to a pretty high standard and I really am confident we're going to put it all out there, give people the space they need to say what they say. I remember going into like that reunion man, like season 10 and 11. I was scared shitless. Some of the best television I've ever seen.

I just because I don't know. Like I was dealing with a lot of other stuff in my life outside of the show. And I just like, I was like, I didn't know the timelines exactly. I knew. But I want to get into that because this is something I think a lot of our audience forgets is, yes, these are people love Bravo. People love VaynerPump. deservedly so people are loving Summerhouse.

We're real people. Yeah. And there's a lot of real shit going on also behind what you're watching on the show. I know you've talked about your dad going through stuff right now. I know your brother has had some liver challenges and I think sober now, right? Fully sober. Fuck yeah. Miracle liver transplant.

Shout out to your brother, Bert. Shout to Asher in New Orleans. Okay. Saved his life. Wow. And it was a beautiful thing. He's like thriving now. I love that.

I mean, if you're comfortable talking about a little bit like the brother of it all because as someone who's lost a sibling to overdose. When I meet friends who have brothers that maybe struggle or they're being supportive, it just warms my heart. And I'm curious, just kind of navigating, being on TV with pretty significant family stuff going on behind the scenes. Well, even talking about your family on the show,

like I talked about my brother's addictions early on in Summerhouse and it was a horrible thing to do. It really messed me and my brother's relationship because he actually saw that talking head. And I'm just like drunkenly, talking about his addictions and it was so messed up and so wrong. It's so understandable to give yourself some grace because when we're doing it, it's like I'm never thinking that I'm on a TV show when I'm filming or even when I'm

doing confessionals, even there's a million cameras right now. Like I'm not thinking that we're filming about it. Yeah, you try not to. I just riffing with you. They just disappear. Yeah. And then sometimes that bites you in the ass. But it's, I don't know.

I guess my biggest takeaway was I didn't realize like how nasty addiction is. and like when you're truly addicted, I didn't realize like it's a physiological, chemical. Yes. I think it's important for you to say this because as siblings who are in families with alcoholism, substance abuse, a lot of times you don't clock as that.

You think he's an asshole. He steals from you. He lies. But if you can flip it over, you wouldn't get angry at your brother if he had cancer. Totally. But it's a different thing.

It's a disease. But it's something that if he could probably change, he would want to, but he can't. I think a lot of, lot of people still think it's a lack of willpower, uneducated or under-informed or inexperienced. People haven't experienced it. But it's like, yeah, I watched it in real time. And it's like, it was so, I never used the word gnarly.

It feels almost disrespectful given the stakes. But just like seeing how it just completely takes over your entire life when you wake up. Like if you don't drink when you wake up, you will start shaking. You can like convulse, you can have seizures. It's like you're enslaved by the drug or the overall. You literally think you're going to die if you, don't get that substance. It's crazy. I didn't realize. And that substance literally kills you. Well, maybe I knew in theory, but until you see it happen, like, graphically in real time,

and you can see it, smell it. You're like part of that. It's like, it just, you'll never look at addiction the same way. Has that part of your family and that story navigating that? Is that impacted your relationship with alcohol or just how you look at how you have fun? Yeah, no, for sure. Like I notoriously drink too much, although I'm much better. now. Like I still love drinking and having a good time. I feel like you're one of the ones that can have a good time. You don't get angry. Maybe you have your moments, but. I used to get sloppy. Yeah. And I don't do that anymore. I seem a lot more controlled. Yeah. I mean, I still, yeah, I like to go out and have a good time. But yeah, I think I'm just more mindful. Sure.

And then when I'm not drinking, I'm like, I, you know, I do detox detox detox. I'm heavy on the detox. Big detox guy. Well, I love heavy in the detox phase. I'm not trying to like just break. I'm trying to level up. You know what I mean? Well, and you have a few sober friends. too in L.A. And I, you know, I have a lot of friends out in L.A. And shout out to Lala, who I'm still trying to get on the pod. But when I first met Lala, we were drinking on Watch Vapins Live. And she was with Randall at the time. And we were drinking martini's backstage. And I was like flirting with Lala. And Randall was not liking me. Wait, that, okay, that's good lore. We brushed over that. But that we can.

But I want to talk about you and Lala's friendship. You have a really beautiful friendship. Yeah. I've admired and been inspired by her sober story. So she has a woman on Bravo. I think it's really powerful to hear her talk about it. She's a mother. She's been through some really public, difficult shit. She's also absolutely hilarious. I mean, Fofty sent it to Daryl. She's iconic.

I love her. She is, one thing I'm so jealous, like, the angrier she gets the more poignant and articulate. She, like, she cuts with a knife. She cuts hardcore. My brain just goes blank when I'm upset and, like, I'm being challenged. I can't barely formulate a sentence. And she, like, turns into Shakespeare. Has she, like, educated you at all about some of the?

the sobriety of it all or just being friends with her has shown you kind of how, you know, someone who doesn't drink can still be fun or still be, you know, poignant. Dude, that's exactly it. I think Lala was like a personification of someone's human's capability to still be fun outgoing, go out, go out, hit the clubs, everything while not drinking. I love it. Because in my mind, like, I went through a sober curious phase. And I still, I love being sober just as much as I love treating myself.

But she just, I think she was a shiny example of how you can still be a fulfilled, happy, sociable, outgoing person while being sober, just like yourself. But that's why, like, I love seeing the la-laas. You love seeing people that are really living their life fully and out loud and publicly. And it gives inspiration to those trying to kind of still do that because I love being social. I love being active. But I think the perception is that as soon as you stop drinking or get sober as you're boring and you're, lame and it's far from that. So I love that you saw that.

I just have a couple more questions for you and we will wrap here. But where do you see yourself in five years? Man. You're still going to be doing the Valley. You're going to be married, kids. I used to want to, I used to get the real house husbands of the Valley. Okay. I want to move into the health and wellness space, kind of why I started this podcast,

my podcast, to educate myself and give myself an excuse to try new things, travel the world. I love it. This is kind of what I'm doing with more life is like it's my excuse to get. get therapy from people that I admire and inspired by. Whether it's sober, friends, business people, reality. Like, I'm using this in a way for selfish reasons. Me too. Because you're getting a lot out of it. Yeah, and I learned so much. And also, I felt myself kind of turning into a bit of a hermit, not to get too deep on that. I was turning into a hermit mute, though. Like, I could feel myself going in that direction. Hermit mute. I was like, I got to start a podcast. I got to start talking,

putting myself out there, educating myself. The code name for my show was the re-education of Tom Schwartz, but I really want to move into the health and wellness space. You're a lot more, not, you're interesting on the valley, but outside of that, like the behind the scenes, Tom, is actually like way more cool. Thank you. I think. Okay, Carl, you have won my heart. Because people come to me and they're like, and they're like, Schwartz, you're just like you are on the show. And I'm like, that is a grave insult. Because I don't like myself on the show. One of my favorites of all time, a friend of mine's father, dad, he coached me in baseball growing up. He called me after like season one had finished playing. And he's like, Carl,

I love your character on Summerhouse. I was like, it's me, not a character. I was so rattled by it because I'm like, that's hilarious that he thinks I'm playing a character. Wait, you may be laughing. I lost my trade I thought. Where you're going to be in five years? Oh, yeah, yeah. Listen, okay, I hate to even put this out there, but I think I got one last bar in me.

I'd like to open one more bar. What about a coffee bar? And I'd like to create some of my own shows. Do you know what I mean? I'd like to one day be behind the camera. You could be the owner of the bar that then has the crazy staff that all sleeps with each other and fights. I've been pitched that. Tom Schwartz rules?

Yeah. Oh, my God. Well, I know we got to get you going, but I have one last thing that I ask all my guests. Yeah. What's giving you more life right now? Honestly, right now in this moment, my girlfriend, shout to Keanu. It's very sweet. New York City, the best city in the effing world.

Yeah. And honestly, just being here chilling with you, Carl. And like just this came from your brain. I love when people have an idea and they bring it to fruition. It's like art. It's such a beautiful thing and it was so well executed. I like, I love the idea of like this being in your iPhone notes one day.

And now we're sitting here. It was. And I just had one of the best drinks I've ever had in my life. That's my favorite too by that. So good. And like, dude, you're doing it. It's like, it's inspiring. Well, it's part of like, you know, the work I've done over the last few years.

Like I really wrote down on a piece of paper. everything that I'm doing right now is all been written down. I had the piece of paper that was from four years ago. And yeah, I was still in a relationship with Lindsay at the time. I'd worked with a business coach. And I was really all like, what brings me joy, what fulfills me, what brings me passion. But then also what is service? What's going to help people?

What's going to change my future? What's going to do some of these things? And everything that's happening right now has all been written down. But the best part is I don't feel like I'm working because it's passion and it's alignment with my life. But the key ingredients to all of this, I'm taking a lot of credit here. and I get a lot more credit than I deserve. I have amazing people that I've brought together. And a big part of this is being smart enough to get out of the way

and allowing people to do what they're really good at doing and incentivizing and not micromanaging. And maybe I do this, but I've really been lucky with the team I have here at Softbar, my podcast team, the book show. I'm a part of really good groups and good teams. So it's sometimes interesting as I get a lot more credit than I think I deserve. No, that inspires me about you because I know you do this.

You're really good at surrounding yourself with great. You're only as good as your worst friend. Which, I was just kidding. You could point it at me too. I sometimes bite off more than I can chew. I think it's just like. Ask for help, man. Dude, get out of your own way.

Close mouths. One of our guests said, clothes mouths don't get fed. And is a male too. It's hard sometimes to ask. But I've learned even in the last few years with this. Like, did I know what the best coffee maker machine was in the U.S.? No. But I have an amazing coffee person who's, do I know what the best microphones?

and seats for a podcast studio, no. But I have great people that really believe in what we're building, but allow them to bring in their value. There's fingerprints of everybody all over this. It's not just mine, which I'm really proud of. I love that. I love that. And it's inspiring to me.

And I think it's probably inspiring to other people too. You don't have to do everything on your own. If you have an idea, you started on your own. And if it has mission and a purpose behind it, you like attract people to it because they're like, I want to be a part of that too. It's so magnetic when you're doing something that you fully have conviction

and believe in. It's like people gravitate towards that. Yep. You know, I wanted to tell you, we have a billboard out front of softbar. Last month, it was Zootopia 2 for the whole month. Disney had this huge billboard and I thought of you every day. I think it's a nice way to end because, listen,

I don't know what's going to happen with you, with your friend group, the show, the reunion. But like, right now, let's just end on that moment where we're all sitting on the trampoline. Watching Zootopians. Which, by the way, he fell asleep out there and got rained on, which is maybe karma. I know we were playing.

But that was an iconic moment. Well, I wish everyone the best. Even the people who have fucked up and yeah. It's tough. But I appreciate you being here. Thanks, bro. I know our audience is going to love listening to you, brother. Where can people find you?

Yeah. You're on Instagram. You have your detox, retox stuff. Plug anything you want. You guys, I'll make this quick. TomTom's for sale probably only be open a few more months, two or three months. I don't know if you know this. I heard it is.

But come hang out with me. I'm going to be hosting on the weekends. And yes, I'll DJ if you want to. Honestly, Tom Tom's a cool bar. Yeah. It's a cool bar. And the vibes are great. It's sad to hear that it's being sold.

Would you ever buy it back and like, no. No, man, it's just too much. Maybe I'll buy it and call it Kyle Carl. It's like whatever. Yeah, yeah, check out my podcast, detox, retox. And dude, thanks. Of course. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for being here, Tom Schwartz. This is so fun. You're the best. You're the best. Thank you guys for joining us today on More Life. Check us out again here at Softbar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Give it up for Tom Schwartz. Thank you, brother.

Cheers. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mike U.R.T. and recorded at Soft Bar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Set designed by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy.

Additional support from Abby Sharp. Special thanks to Allison Shano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old.

You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.