More Life with Carl Radke - Why He Couldn't Ask for Help Until His Life Fell Apart with JB Copeland

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

For years, JB Copeland believed his worth depended on how well he performed—on the football field, in his career, and even in his closest relationships. Behind the success, though, he was quietly battling addiction, shame, and a fear that if anyone saw who he really was, they would walk away. Carl sits down with the author of Sappy Medium and host of The Motion Podcast to talk about losing his Division I football career, the father wound that fueled his need for approval, the years he spent numbing himself with drugs and alcohol, and the difficult road to recovery. JB also opens up about the relapse he chose not to hide, why healing is rarely linear, and the therapist's question that forced him to confront an identity he'd spent years avoiding. Together, Carl and JB explore what it means to let go of performance, embrace vulnerability, and discover who you are underneath the expectations. It's an honest conversation about addiction, masculinity, self-worth, and why asking for help isn't a sign of weakness—it's where real healing begins. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is the actual Prime Minister, Andy Burnham. I'll be careful. This does make me quite emotional. She said, we all knew kind of what time you might be coming up Downing Street. So we got Roy and we got the telly right in front of him and six of us stood around him. And all said, look, Roy, look, look. Momentarily, they said, we thought he knew. Listen to How to Fail wherever you get your podcasts.

Guys, I'm Carl Radke, and welcome to More Life. Today on the show, we've got J.B. Copeland. He's the author of Sappy Medium. He's the host of the Motion Podcast. You also might have seen his videos on Instagram. They're incredibly inspiring, very vulnerable, and he's very authentic. I cannot wait to talk to him today. We're going to dive in very soon here at Soft Bar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. We got J.B. Copeland, guys. Welcome to Moore Life, man. Great to have you. I love the butter yellow cardigan. Thank you. I almost wore the butter yellow. I have a butteryellow one. just like this. I was hoping we were going to match. I thought about it, but you, as a fashion guy a little bit, I always thought you're like, your aesthetic and your videos. Well, thank you.

You always are rocking cool stuff. You and Jay Shetty are like some of my favorite vibes. Jay's got the vibes. You probably has a little bit of help. I have help too. Oh, you do. Yeah, it's my wife. Yeah, it's my wife. I'm sure Jay's wife too, Roddy probably has. Yes. But welcome to more life. Thank you. Thanks for coming to Brooklyn, man. Of course. It's awesome to meet you. One of my favorite sayings, and it's something that came from reality TV, and I had this saying that I would speak out at like dinner tables when I was really drunk. I'd be like, more life, no stress, more life. So I've embodied this as a mantra now in my sobriety is more like I really live life.

And I really try to take advantage of my opportunities and one day at a time, but really just try to embrace each day and live it to the fullest. So that's kind of my mantra. I love it. I'm wondering, I know you have some different things you've said out loud, but do you have a mantra that you kind of live by? I think probably, and this is like so cliche, but like for 27 years in my life, I'm 31 now, but for 27 years of my life, I wasn't me. I didn't know me. I didn't know,

you know, the drugs, the insecurities, all of those things made me not know who I was. And so mine's probably just be you. I love that. I know that's so cliche, but it's, I want to be just be me. Yeah. And I think that's so powerful because one I actually another favorite quote of mine is that it's either Oscar Wild or Michael Scott. It's like be you, everyone else has already taken. Exactly. You know, and I think the acceptance and finding your own inner confidence. for men, guys like us, it took some time, which I want to get into. Yes. But take me back a little bit.

I mean, I played sports too. So some of your story, I loved reading just because I love the athlete stuff. And I think there's a lot of actually addiction that can come from post athletics or even during athletics, the pressure, you know, all the injuries even. Yes. Kind of curious. Take me back to like you're from Texas. Texas. You come from like basically Friday Night Lights.

Literally Bible Belt, Friday Night Lights. I love that show, by the way. Great show. And so I went to a high school that was known for winning a lot. You guys have like a lot of NFL current and former NFL from South Lake? South Lake Texas. Yeah. Yes.

DFW is like the pinnacle for, which is Dallas, Fort Worth is like the pinnacle. So you started playing football at what age where you, was it like ingrained and you had a football in your crib? So I started playing in fifth grade, which is a little late. I had played some flag football, but and I was the quarterback on that team and we were just terrible. We just got smoked over and over and over again. And I just remember my mom being. in the stands and she could never watch the games, even up through going and playing at Division 1 and North Carolina. She hated it. And so that's pretty funny. I don't know why I said that.

But I started playing in fifth grade, played through middle school. And then I was really little. I was very small. I hadn't really hit a gross spurt. My dad was like, you know, six one, six two. And so I was like, maybe one day. Like, and I go hit puberty. Yeah, maybe one day. I was so late. Blue. And like, the craziest thing is I got held back in second grade. Oh, wow. And so I was a year older than everyone and like six inches shorter than everyone. And so it was so weird for me, like I was always like embarrassed of being older. Looking back on that time now, like do you think that had anything to do with maybe some of your identity or?

Oh, yeah. Because I also felt similar like I was a late bloomer like yourself and, you know, always questioning why I was shorter. I was a little chubbier too. You're tall. You're like, how tall are you like six, five? I didn't grow until my freshman year of college. I came back for a reunion. and most of my classmates didn't recognize me because I finned out and got taller.

You look good. But there was like a mental thing that developed where you was like an insecurity. And you still feel short even once you're tall. No, you know what I am now? I'm embarrassed that I'm so tall. Like I feel weird that I'm so tall. Well, don't be because it's a great attribute. Thank you.

So I love it. What's like the football culture like in Texas for those that might, I mean, it's like. It's like religion. Yeah. It's pretty insane. I mean, we would have, and at a high school, we'd have 15, 20,000. fans showing up, you know, every Friday night. This is high school guys.

Yeah. And the whole city would be there. What kind of pressure does that put on the players? It's so funny. And I think about this a lot. It's so funny looking back, if I were a high school coach now, I wouldn't have acted like my coaches. Like, we're like 15 to like 18 years old and y'all are making it seem like.

It's the end of the world. Yeah. I always think that that's weird how they acted because like it was an environment of high performance, high fear. you do not mess up. If we don't win, we suck. And you know, you're 14, 15, 16 years old. Not that that's like not a good thing. I think what makes it a bad thing is like the culture of it was this high performance and fear. It's fear you cannot mess up. And that hurt me through the years as I kept on moving up. The high school was also just like, I think, understanding kind of that

environment of the sports and the football of it all. Obviously, you went to play the Division I sports, which I want to get into. But yeah, go into the call. I mean, you were recruited pretty highly, right? Yeah, my senior year, I ended up tearing my ACL, fourth game of the year. And it was terrible. I was a team captain. And pretty much all my scholarships got pulled except one. How does that work? Like, you've gotten your letters from these teams. Do you get another letter saying we're not? At that point, they just called back up. No, they had called me. Yeah. And we're like, hey, man, like we got it. They got to get someone who's got a better knee. Yes, exactly. Fuck. I know. But one school stayed with me and it was the worst.

team in Division I in CAA since like 1940. It's the New Mexico State. And they had had a winning season in forever. And so I would say my junior year of high school, I started smoking, I started drinking, trying to figure out how to deal with the pressure of not only football, but really like pure pressure and wanting to be liked and socialized. Yeah, social and fitting in. And it was fun and I loved it. And so then I ended up going to New Mexico State. And it was like no shade against New Mexico State. But it was party school. It wasn't a party. It was in the middle of a retirement town. Oh, man. And I just didn't like New Mexico like that. Not that I don't like New Mexico, but I hated it. And there would be like 15 fans at a game. And I was like, how was I in high school

playing in front of this many people? And now we're here and we can't win a game. I haven't won a game in years. Yeah, you go from like here to the bottom of the barrel barrel. So yeah, I was there. I was smoking weed every day there. Like how did that impact your sports performance if you were to look back on it? Do you think it? I think at first, like it didn't really impact. at all. But looking back and like I was not in a good place mentally or emotionally. I remember just dealing with so much anxiety. Growing up in church, you can't really like put a finger on your feelings. It's like you just pray it away and you don't ever really go deep enough to even engage with those feelings. Sure. Well, even being a male too, I would imagine. I was raised pretty religious as well.

And yeah, you pray, you show up. But a lot of times it's like as a guy, you got to just be tough and stoic and jamming all down. Exactly. And you're at practice every day. You're two. days, your meetings, and there's just no time for the reflection and evaluation of yourself that you need. And so you start to numb it. And so that's what I started doing. Did your ACL injury kind of inform some of this usage too? I had already been using. And at that point, it was just alcohol and weed. Yeah. But yeah, when I had the ACL surgery in my senior year, I remember getting those painkillers and being like, let's get another surgery. Like I'm going to go break my arm. Yeah. And it was an amazing feeling. I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, I've taken a

some pain goes back and it was always like you'd get it for like a dental thing or yes buddy of yours would have a couple extra but you weren't taking them necessarily for right really the pain we talk a lot on this show about getting real doing the work and building a better life something i've been totally open about is my own struggle with an eating disorder and if you're listening right now and feeling exhausted by constant thoughts about food exercise or your body i get it i know exactly how easy it is to tell yourself, you're not sick enough to get help. But the truth is, eating disorders don't have a specific look, and you do not have to keep fighting this on your own. That's why I'm so proud to partner with Equip. Equip provides 100% virtual evidence-based eating disorder treatment for all

diagnosis and all bodies. You don't just get an hour of therapy a week. You get a full dedicated care team in your corner. That means a therapist, a medical provider, a dietitian, and a recovery coach who has actually walked this path and understands exactly what you're going through. You deserve more life than what an eating disorder gives you. Real recovery is completely possible. Visit equip.health slash Carl to book a free consultation today. That's equip.com. August is that weird stretch where it's still hot out, but you can feel the fall coming.

And honestly, the first place I hit reset is my closet. Quince helps make that reset so easy. Here's my specific thing. They're organic cotton teas. They become my layering staple. That's the piece I build everything around, wear it on its own, when it's hot, throw something over it as it cools down at night,

and it just holds up. What got me is the quality. It feels like the kind of tea you'd pay a fortune for at a designer label, and Quince has it for a fraction of that. I use it, and you should too. That's kind of their whole deal. fewer better pieces made with premium materials and built to last.

Everything's priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for the quality, not the markup. And it's not just close at this point. It's become my go-to for betting, travel stuff, and all of it. Upgrade your every day. Download the Quince app for exclusive offers or go to Quince.com slash Radkey. get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too that's

q-u-in-c-e dot com slash R-A-D-K-E now did you think at all about this like you're drinking and using at that time was like a problem or the only thing I was scared about was getting tested from the school you know the NCAA at that time tested for steroids yep and the school tested for marijuana or any other type of illegal drugs that you were doing and so luckily I wasn't chosen on the drug test list. A couple of my buddies were, and they got caught. And so I was playing with fire at my freshman year at New Mexico State. So I ended up transferring from New Mexico State to-

And what point in your New Mexico State career is this? Like five months in. Okay, wow. Like I stayed there just the first semester. And that's it. And then went to junior college. And was at junior college for, I was like, I'm just going to earn a scholarship to I know I'm good enough to go play.

Like I had this stuff. So for the un-initiated, the junior college is a way to keep your football career playing but also like be able to then position yourself to go play for another major division one exactly and so i ended up going to navarro junior college and navarro's known for cheer i said that's the netflix dance show yes yes yes yes so they're good at football but they're really good at cheer and so that was like an hour from where i grew up no way okay so i was there for a year and i was the the leading tackler in j-c-a-a which is the junior college and like you play linebacker at the time yeah linebacker outside linebacker so you must be an

animal man. So at that time, I was on steroids. Okay. So that helps. I got on some steroids there. Everyone was on steroids in junior college. And I ended up going to North Carolina. And this is where everything falls apart for me. So you get, you get the opportunity to go to UNC Chapel Hill, which is an amazing school. ACC. Yes. I mean, cream of the crop. Yes. I'm riding the high at this point. But I am starting to break down a little bit mentally, emotionally. I just didn't know it yet. Sure. You know, a Band-Aid can only work for so long. And I didn't even really know what I was bandaging that you know from childhood and and and those types of things and I ended up going to unc and within two weeks I failed a drug test wow yeah for weed how do they test you these days

or those you had to be pee in the cup okay I heard a hair test dude that would suck the hair test they could go further back right yeah just shave your head you know when when you think that you're gonna get tested all those thoughts go through your head I can't even imagine so I remember there's like all these different things that you could do so yeah I got the text and it's like, hey, be at the field house at, you know, 5.30 a.m. How much time do you have from the text? Like 10 hours. You know, it's the night before.

So you're taking like niacin. I don't know if you've ever done that, but you take niacin. There's a thing that I had heard, you take a Gatorade bottle and you pour, it's like a gelatin. Yes. What's it called? You know exactly what I mean. Yeah, it never worked for me.

I'm sorry. I tried everything. So you get, you take the test. Yeah. You fail. I fail. Slap on the wrist or you like totally screwed? slap on the wrist and you know I'm coming in I'm new they needed someone to fill that lineback

role so I'm still favorited in the coach's eyes they're like you know kids mess up you know it's okay I don't know what happened looking back I think I'd fought for so long to get somewhere and I had finally got there and like it's like this inner self-sabotage started to come out and like failed that drug test two weeks in and then we go to a frat party and I literally broke someone's jaw like which was not good. Did you get arrested for the jawbreak? I didn't. I didn't.

And I like fled the scene and went back to my dorm and was just like, holy shit. Like what am I doing? All of us in college were pretty crazy. I was crazy. My friends were crazy. I feel like that's what you were supposed to do this, right? Yeah. Back in like that, there was an era where like college was where you go do crazy shit.

So yeah, it ended up just like not going really well for me at UNC. In that situation, that next Monday we had started to spring ball. So like I'm running around with yeah, which I talked about a little bit. I was reading about the was sappy medium just like the performative stuff. Yes. I think even as like you're performing on the field on practice, but also just like in everyday meetings and like trying to just show that like you're good but you really weren't. Yeah it was I was just so when it came to men like a coach or like you know a professor or like my father there was a father wound there and I wanted to be affirmed by a man that told me that he was proud of me. They might have said, I'm proud of you or I love

you, but the actions were different. It was like, you only like me if I'm good. Sure. And that made me be the least vulnerable person ever. I couldn't be open to these men in my life because if my belief was, if I'm open with them, they'll think I'm a failure. They'll think I'm stupid. And so really my only outlet to be vulnerable was with the drugs, was with the alcohol, was with my buddies. It just led me down a really bad path. What was your favorite, like if you don't mind me asking, what was your favorite thing to drink and use? Just straight liquor.

It wasn't even like I liked a certain drink. It was just give me like a double because it wasn't really about the taste. It was about just getting drunk. Just getting drunk. And then you would have it like straight vodka or straight whatever. Would you then introduce any other substances after or? At that time, it really was just marijuana and drinking. I would say I smoked more than I drank, but on the weekends, like, I would get crazy,

but I was smoking every single day. I was playing probably like 30% of the time. And just I wasn't in a great headspace. I felt like I couldn't learn the scheme. And I was just, again, I was so fearful to mess up. And I just was not playing great. Well, within like the first three weeks of the season, I got a concussion. and then I'm out for two weeks

and then we come back for a bye week where we're practicing and I get another concussion and then career is over just like that and so I never really played there I mean I traveled to some games and I've got some plays it's like everything I work for just over I would say that was the beginning of like

that's when it really turned on the different direction yes We talk a lot on this show about getting real, doing the work and building a better life. Something I've been totally open about is my own struggle with an eating disorder. And if you're listening right now and feeling exhausted by constant thoughts about food, exercise, or your body, I get it. I know exactly how easy it is to tell yourself you're not sick enough to get help. But the truth is, eating disorders don't have a specific look. And you do not have to keep fighting this on your own.

That's why I'm so proud to partner with Equip. Equip provides 100% virtual evidence-based eating disorder treatment for all diagnosis and all bodies. You don't just get an hour of therapy a week. You get a full dedicated care team in your corner. That means a therapist, a medical provider, a dietitian, and a recovery coach who has actually walked this path and understands exactly what you're going through. You deserve more life than what an eating disorder gives you. Real recovery is completely possible. Visit equip.health slash Carl to book a free consultation today.

That's equip.combe.com slash Carl. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is the actual Prime Minister, Andy Burnham. I have to be quite emotional. We all knew kind of what time you might be coming up Downing Street. So we got Roy and we got the telly right in front of him and six of us, around him and all said, Roy, look, look.

Momentarily, they said, we thought he knew. Listen to how to fail wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, I feel like once you go from all that structure, all that kind of commitment and consistency to then. Yeah, and it was almost a relief to not have that anymore. Because that's all you had known. Yeah. And I enjoyed it for a minute,

but there's a duality to it of also just feeling completely worthless. Sure. You know, I didn't have to get up for the morning things. Did you lose friends? Like, because you just weren't on the team or weren't a part of it as much? I didn't lose friends. I isolated. And that's a thing that I've seen. It's a pattern in my life is I isolate. I think a lot of men isolate. You know, I felt embarrassed that I couldn't be of help. I felt embarrassed that I couldn't perform. And so I'm reflecting out of me what I feel about me. And I'm putting up walls around me. And within two weeks, of retiring, I got tested again and failed at a second drug test. Wow. And when you fail a second drug test, and I'm still on scholarship, you know, I'm a medical retiree. Got it. School still paid for.

So it's like, now I'm throwing away my education. Yeah. And so. So you can only have two? Well, at the time, you could have three. Three. And so I had failed two. And so I was like, one strike left.

Yeah. And I had. But at that point, you probably were just so like out of your mind care. I didn't care. When's the shoe going to drop again? Yeah, exactly. And that's when things got pretty dark. I started doing like ketamine. If you don't mind me asking, like, my first experience with ketamine, I did it thinking it was cocaine. Because someone was like, oh, yeah, do that, Carl, and I did it. And you just do a straight cable. And I was like, what the fuck? And I was mad at first, but then I actually felt really good. I'm not going to lie. I don't recommend it to anybody. But for me, I was like, wow, this feels good. Yeah. But I wasn't into that. But I'm curious how people started. Yeah, it's a buddy had it. I was more of a downer's guy. Yeah, like a Percocet or Vicodin. Perkissette, Vicodin, Xanax. Really, Xanax became like... Were you liking that after like a big drinking night?

Because I would love like a Xanax after like a big cocaine weekend and just to kind of like ease like a soft landing back in life. Yeah, for sure. So it would become like my post party get back to normal. Yeah, no, for sure. I would use it after that. But really after the concussions and after retiring, I was locked in my room. And so really it was I wasn't going out. I wasn't drinking.

I was just isolating. Isolating. Did you have like friends that were concerned or noticing that you were? Or did you have like really good excuses and you were able to kind of like isolate but then still be like, I'm fine guys? Yeah. Or did people start to notice like this guy's really not doing it? I had one friend, Mello. We can call him Fat Mellow.

So fat Mellow. Yeah, I know. He's a great, great guy. He was a D-Lyman. And he was like the one guy that. was there for me. He was really the one guy I was like pretty honest with and he's seen me at my worst to worst like everyone else I kind of kept at arm's length including the coaches. It's not that people didn't check on me. Even my dad and my parents at arm's length. Yeah. I relate to this so much.

Yeah. It's very similar to my story. Yeah. I know exactly. Yeah. And so you just you don't want to be weak or judged or embarrassed. Yeah. So you just hold it up. Yeah. Build a wall. Exactly. And so yeah, it was it was really just him. At what point? Are you really hitting rock bottom? Was it shortly thereafter? Or was this like a series of bottoms? Yeah, it was a series of bottoms for, that was 2016 when I got my concussions. Yeah.

To like bottoms and trying to climb out of it, bottom and trying to climb out of it until like 2022. Wow. Just so people know, like, I appreciate the honesty on that because like a lot of times that people like they hit that bottom. You know, you get help and then they're fine. Everything's good. It's like not everybody's stories like that. It's not a linear path. No.

I had a similar story where I was like, I got a problem. I had people sit me down and tell me to go to rehab and all that. And I still didn't. And then finally, it's like, okay. But it was like a two and a half year span for me where I like knew I had an issue until I actually got the real help. And even trying to figure out how to get help and not feeling like you can get help. Well, talk to me about that. Like, because I think men, especially like asking for help and then getting that help, like even finding a therapist isn't necessarily the easiest thing or finding a treatment center that maybe works for you.

So talk to me about like you're down. darkest you've ever been, right? Yeah. Darkest I've ever been was a year later. So in 2017, I was a senior now going into my second semester and I failed my third drug test. So I got kicked off scholarship. And so, and that was just like, it's literally two years of it feeling like one month because I was on Xanax every day. I don't remember anything. Just, yeah. And I ended up failing out my senior semester, my senior second year semester, even though my parents ended up paying for it. So I failed a class. How was that combo with your parents?

Dude, I'm sure that they just, I don't even remember. I just was like, I can't. And so from being like, you know, a recruited athlete to a complete loser. Yeah, you're like from here. It's like Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad. It's like I remember just this degenerate loser piece of shit basically. Correct. And that's exactly what.

I was in the middle of that. And I'm going to get to your question, but I have to, but yeah, you can string it together. In the middle of that, right after I got my concussions, I had met my wife. How did you guys meet? Instagram. She went to Arkansas. I went to UNC. Did she slide in your DMs? I slid in hers. Nice. What was the first thing you said? Hey. See? That's simple. I just said, hey. And she left me on red for six months. Nice. So I was like, whatever. Make them way a little bit. But we're from the same hometown. Not not South Lake. We were in the same area. So I didn't know her in high school. And so that's another relationship being introduced into this whole dynamic of arm's length. So she got the best of me. You know, she got that

side of me that was still the performative side. Yeah, the good guy and the happy guy. And, you know, I'm flying her out to UNC and, you know. You're the cool guy. Yeah. But it wasn't that. It was all an act. All an act. And so her and I were were on and off. Did some of the, your act. Did the bail? Yeah, she caught me. Yeah. And like, I lied. And it's funny, like, I didn't have to lie to her about my struggle. She would have been there. She would have loved you anyway. Yeah. She would have helped me. And she's the one that ended up helping me. Did you graduate? I ended up graduating in 2020. Hell yeah, brother. So in the middle of COVID. I finished that last class. Got it done. So I got my communications degree from U.S. Hey, great school. Yeah. So I'm happy about that.

But when I got back and I really tried to clean my life up. And my dad was a pastor. So you're back in Texas now at this point. Yeah. And football career is over. Was faith a big part of your story when you were using and drinking or you kind of also were walled up to that? I wanted it to be a big part, but I didn't know how to let it be. It didn't work. Yeah. I had a similar experience. I was very anti-community like that because I just couldn't handle it. Yeah. So there are things in my life at this point like with my wife and me being at home to where like there was a level of accountability. And not everyone knew all of the darkness that had gone on within me. I was never honest with my wife. I was never honest with my parents.

They didn't know about the ketamine. They didn't know about the acid. They didn't know about the crazy nights. They knew that I had failed three drug tests for marijuana and I had concussions. They didn't know about the Xanax. Which maybe your parents might offer you grace. It's like this poor kid. Head injury career over.

Maybe the marijuana helps them or something. That's exactly. And that's what happened is they're like it must be the concussions. Yeah. And it wasn't. It wasn't the concussions. Like, yeah, the concussions are detrimental. But there was an excuse that I used.

And for my wife, her name's Chloe, I use that for her and with my parents and even with my little brothers. And so I just was like, I had made a decision like I'm going to get cleaned up and I'm going to marry Chloe. Like I had to figure out how to do this. And so I was like the only- I love that, by the way. That's really beautiful.

That deserves some praise. Yeah. Well, I didn't get cleaned up. I tried because I just didn't know how. But I was like, the only place that I can see myself going back into to like could actually help me is like where my dad works, which is church. And I look back and I'm like, that was just like so far from who I am when it comes like being a pastor or like working at a church. Like it's just not me.

But it goes back to that father wound of like, how can I please? How can I get affirmation? Like at my lowest point, the one I wanted affirmation from was my dad. And I ended up getting that. But the addiction kept on going. And I was a youth pastor at my dad's church. And I was probably the worst youth pastor. ever. We just played games the whole time and had fun. It sounds pretty fun. I know. I think the kids

thought they loved it. You might have diverted off of what you were supposed to do. Yeah, I definitely diverted. I remember like going and having to speak or something and I'd be in the bathroom just like hitting a vape at the church like before I had to go in and speak. Wow. I appreciate the honesty. That's what's so important is just how raw. Yeah. And so it was just, I'm just saying it was like a really messy time. And my wife knew and she's like, you're a hypocrite. Like you. I mean, I probably eat you alive. Yeah. Oh, I did. I hated it. Oh, man. And that took me to 2022, the question of like asking for help. And my wife had had had enough. Is there a moment in particular that she kind of. There were a few that she had caught me, you know, with the Xanax, with the painkillers.

And so, yeah, I remember we were staying at my parents. We had no money. And, you know, on a pastor's salary. And but the money you did have, you were buying. Yeah, exactly. And thinking of how crazy that is. Yeah, it's so crazy. Broke ass and no money and you'll still find a way to buy the drugs you need. Exactly. So we like got out of our apartment lease because we didn't have money.

And this is like May of 2022. Wow. And we went and stayed with my parents for a couple weeks that lived, you know, 20 minutes away. And I remember like being upstairs, like watching Netflix. And I just heard my wife and my mom like whispering. downstairs and i was like oh like i'm not going to think too much into this like they're fine they must be just talking about girl things i don't know yeah yeah and she comes up and i was like what was that about and she was like oh nothing well the next day my dad comes up to me and he's like hey i want you to

come up to the offices with me and i was like oh shit yeah he's like my boss's boss's boss's boss like you know he's like up there and so i'm more worried about what he thinks than like what i've done sure and uh He just is like, Chloe had a conversation with mom. I need you to be like straight up honest with me right now. And I got honest in that moment. What was it in you? Well, I just said, look, I just said, look, at that point I was also having some panic attacks. And so I was like, I can't lie anymore.

Yeah, I can't. Like, this is at the point to where like I just need help. And I just said, look, I'm an addict. I can't stop. I haven't been able to stop since 2014. Wow. And I'm a pastor. I feel like a fake.

I'm your kid. I feel like a failure. I've fucked up with football. Like I'm, you know, my wife wants to leave me because I can't be honest. I don't know how to get help. And I don't even know what that looks like. Like, but I will. And so one thing happened after another and the next day, like I was in the car with my mom,

my dad, and my wife. And they were driving me to rehab. Wow. So this is like a really like a eight to 10 year long demise. of like my life. Yeah, just slowly, slowly going off the cliff. Exactly. And just the self-sat and all of these things.

And I didn't understand any of it at that point because I didn't know where it came from. Yeah. But you were so caught up in everything. Exactly. I mean, at that point where you just, you were ready, would you say? I think I was ready. I was tired. Yeah.

Was any of the usage towards the end of that even fun? No. No. I get that a lot. I mean, I felt the same way. But it was fun for like 30 seconds. It was like the ritual of it. It was the ritual of going and getting it.

Finding it and that first little thing. And then as soon as it was over. Yeah, the guilt that you have and like the shame. You know that the addiction cycle and all that kind of thing. And so they dropped me off and like no phone. I'm there with like 20 other guys and how was that first like 24 hours week? Terrible. I remember. Were you coming off of stuff too on the way there?

Yeah. Yeah. And so you got a detox first. I mean, Benzo and painkiller detox is not good. Really rough. Your mental side is like. no, it's not good. It's like coming out of outer space. So I remember saying goodbye to my wife and them being like, you're not going to see her for 90 days. You're not going to be able to contact them except, you know, a couple times on a Sunday or something like that. Man, you're just not hitting.

It's like all this has just happened. So, you know, that starts the seven day detox. You're on Suboxin and all these things. And so it's not as bad, you know, they're detoxing. They kind of wean you off. Yeah. And so I'm like, okay, I can do this. You're like shivering and shaking in your corner of your room. Exactly. And so I was like, okay, I can do this, but it got really bad after that first week, just because that's when all the feelings hit. Yes. So what did you have to face? I mean, everything, obviously, but was there things that were really hard to face? Maybe your father or... I think I just didn't realize how much pain was in me. I didn't realize that I wasn't me. I didn't even know who I was. It was like, I remember my therapist asking me while I was there, who are you? And I was like,

I'm a husband. I'm a son. And he's like, eh, wrong. Oh, and I was like, what? Start over. Yeah. And he's like, who are you? And I was like, that's what you're here to find out.

And it was just like pain from child. And here's the thing with childhood. Like, it's not like I had some crazy terrible childhood. Like my dad was my coach, my pastor and, you know, my father. And I was kind of raised to perform and like look good for him and our family. He was a pastor. it was very important. I don't think is all bad, but like when you're a kid, you don't, it doesn't.

Well, yeah, it's very concrete in your body at that age. Like, I have to do this or I'm going to disappoint my dad and he's probably your hero. Yes, for sure. Everything. Yeah. And so all of this was like, all of this came from the belief of I am not enough at my core. I'm not enough. And I need affirmation to be enough.

I need to reform to be enough, which is so crazy that that can snowball into what it did. So you completed the 90 days? I was there for 60. They let me out early. So you were doing well. Yeah. Would you have wanted to stay or are you ready to get out? I was at the point to where like I kind of wanted to.

Yeah. I don't know if you did you go to again. I was told to go to rehab. I did not. COVID started and that was kind of like a weird forced rehab. Yes. But I went to kind of a more of an outpatient, you know, which is still great. Meetings and things.

But honestly, like I needed rehab, but I couldn't have afford it at the time, which is kind of also interesting. I think people forget how much those treatments. It's insane. It's so expensive. It's insane. Which is, yeah, I mean, I was fortunate and not everybody has to go, but I was certainly sat down by people that loved me and said, you need to go. And I was like, see, it's funny. When I first got sat down, I was like, oh, it's just my drinking. And you're like, just for drinking, Carl? I was like, the way they said it, I like unraveled. Yeah, no, for sure. And that's why I went was to get sober. But what I came out with and what I realized was sobriety is just like the fruit of a root the addiction is the fruit of a root the addiction cycle and

you know it but it's the way i learned it is it starts you're restless irritable and discontent and then from being restless and irritable and discontent you start to obsess and think about how can i not be this way how can i not be restless right now how can i not and then you use in whatever addiction for some people it's eating for some people it's drinking for some people it's Xanax or some people it's whatever and then you go on a spree and like this was my life and then you feel guilty and you create a firm resolution to stop and then you're like okay i'm good and you wake up the next day and you're restless irritable and discontent yeah and so the problem for me was every day was this cycle of being restless obsessing using guilt the shame cycle what they had taught me was

like we have to fix it here where you're a restless irritable and discontent why are you restless and irritable and discontent number one it was because of all the feelings that i was suppressing but number two is was like i was disconnected from i think myself and and god or the creator yourself and something outside of yourself yes exactly and i didn't know what that meant i didn't understand i didn't i didn't i didn't understand how i could be good enough and that time in rehab proved to me that there is something bigger. Now, it wasn't what I grew up learning. Sure. And rehab really changed my perspective on church and religion, but I know for a fact that I met something bigger, God, like the future me within that time. I remember we would be out and I would ask for signs.

And I think people that are watching ask for help from something bigger, ask for signs. And I would be laying out there and it'd be like 12. at night and all the boys are out there like in the rocking chairs at the rehab center and I'd look up and we'd all just be sitting there and I'd ask for a sign and I'd see a shooting star and I was like holy shit I was like I was like all right god like if you're real show me another one another one and I was like I don't know just like this piece that came over me like there are moments like that of being shut out from the rest of everything all of these worries that I have in life with the money and with my job and with my wife. And like, I had to be taken away from that

to be able to finally understand myself. The moment that really changed everything for me in rehab was a moment to where they brought this lady in to do psychotherapy, the form psychotherapy, which was like where someone sits across from you that you need to talk to and sits in for that figure. So like someone had to sit in for my father. And, you know, all the guys in the room went, it's a two-day process and like you you know you watch as your friend in rehab goes through it and then you go through it as well and so i i had a conversation with my dad there wasn't my dad wasn't your dad but it was a proxy exactly and i remember just telling him like who i am and like that i'm not who i thought i was i'm not who i've been pretending to be do all this because i try

and please you you know that whole thing sure how did that feel in i know no i mean i didn't really feel anything in the moment. But then at the end of the session, she said, I want you guys to close your eyes. And she did this like inner child healing where we like, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. And I was like, okay, cool. Like I met my inner child and my childhood bedroom and that was good. Well, you know, you don't really feel anything in the moment. And then we went downstairs and a buddy of mine there made this joke to one of like the RAs there. And there was like an ongoing thing with the RAs, the guys that were working at the rehab and the guys that were there. just like it was it was like college all over again it was hilarious and he made a joke and i laughed

it wasn't a ha ha it was like a belly laugh like a real laugh and uh in that moment i i felt like i heard a voice saying like you're back and so a laugh a laugh is what kind of set me free and it's like this that little kid jb came back out again fun that's powerful yeah yeah it can be cry a little bit yeah it's beautiful man yeah i appreciate it and so yeah no it's i mean i love it because i think getting back to that inner child and like that's something I've had to do a lot of work on and finding comfort in that version of myself and that healing because like when I was five or six like I wasn't using I wasn't drinking I wasn't smoking weed I wasn't doing coke and I was happy and I was friendly and I had to like really get back to that and that's kind of how I feel like I am now like I'm just a

bigger version of that five year old kid and I can feel that your energy is amazing thank you man appreciate it but it took time to get there and it took a lot of really wrapping your arms around the difficult stuff. But it's something you've, I think, talk about too and your amazing story that you've now been sharing publicly, which has gone incredibly viral. I mean, that's how I first saw you. But like men especially struggled to ask for help.

And it took you a while. But once you did, look what happened. And I'm curious, like, talk to me about just like why you feel like men really struggled from your now experiences so far removed from it. I think the reason that men struggle is because what vulnerability is is showing your weakness. And I think that we've been taught through our life that our weakness is not okay.

The bad feelings, the dark feelings, the anxiety, the depression, like, that's not okay. Like, don't share that. Don't share it, yeah. But what strength is is being able to have capacity as a man, a capacity to hold space for yourself, the capacity to hold space for those around you. And you can't tap into strength unless you are vulnerable. That doesn't mean that you need to be vulnerable with everyone. It means you need to be vulnerable with the people that you trust.

Like for me, it's my wife. For me, it's a couple friends. And being honest about where you are now, and I think that that's the hard thing for men because they isolate. And the reason that they isolate is because they don't want to be known. Because if they feel like they're known, then it's going to reinforce in them that they don't believe that they're enough. If I show my weakness to someone,

then my darkest nightmare is going to come true. And that is that it's going to be reinforced that the belief that I'm not enough is true. And so I think that's why men won't share is because it's more comfortable to isolate. It's easier. Yeah, but it's more detrimental. But it's the strongest thing that you could ever do

is to be vulnerable. Agreed. Well, there's definitely, I mean, we've had guests on women that talk about the loneliness, epidemic in men. And curiously, if you have any thoughts on, you know, someone who's kind of come so far. And like even just what you talk about on your Instagram and in your book, you're inspiring men to be more vulnerable and open up. I mean, do you think we're

getting a shift here? Is it, is there change or is it getting worse? Because I feel like I see both sides. I see this loneliness epidemic everywhere. But then I see guys like you, guys like Jay Shetty, even me trying to really share these vulnerabilities or give space to those who want to share vulnerability. Yeah. I hope it's helping. But then I read these articles and people tell me that it's even worse. So I'm wondering what you think. I love tapping into the positive side of things. And obviously with, you know, I see the same thing. And it's just like, I think generationally, when you look at like, you know, boomers to, I don't even know all the generation's names of my parents, Gen X. Well, I think my parents were boomers. Boomers. Then there was a Gen X. That was my brother,

millennial or Gen Z. It's crazy to see when you, when we look at like the demographics, demographics of, and I've talked to a lot of people in the space, like what you're doing here and like in the mental health space. And the demographics, no matter what age the creator is or what age, the demographics are heavy 25 to 35. And it's this, I think the millennial gen Z generation is saying like there's got to be something more. And so I think that that's really great. not saying that the older generations aren't doing that. But I do think that like the way that they are raised taught them to isolate to not share. And so now we're growing up and we're saying, and we were taught the same thing from our parents. And because of what we've learned via through

social media and we're like, oh, there has to be something more. I need to open up. It's okay to to open up. And so I see my little brother's caring. I see my little brother, like my youngest brother, he's nine years younger than me, like calling me and telling me about the things he's working through and it's like a lot of those guys i think are not saying that there still aren't sure but you're you're seeing another i think that there's a shift in our world and with these millennials and in gen z that people want to just be real they want to be themselves and you can't be real in yourself if you're not vulnerable totally well i mean i think authenticity is a i mean community authenticity these are like the big buzzwords but authenticity especially i would imagine

for you, you know, once you kind of like really proudly share that on social. Yeah. Did it surprise you the people that were engaged with the authenticity that you shared? Or did it? Well, it surprised me. My thoughts were authentic and my thoughts were coming from things that I wish I would tell myself, you know, and my story. And it surprised me because of the amount of people that reached out and said,

I feel like you. And I think that that's the coolest thing that I've realized is that, We are connected by feeling. We're connected by the excitement. We're connected by the anxiousness. Feeling is a universal language. And all of our stories are different. And so it's like I can say, I feel you.

Like you can hear my story and say I. And so I think that that's what surprised me is that if I can communicate. It's so well said because like not the same story, but I feel exactly what you're saying. Yeah. So I'm going to communicate a feeling. And I think that that's what I've tried to do is how do I make a video. and communicate, you know, comfort or how do I communicate empowerment? How do I communicate overcoming?

Like, how do I do this? Sure. And that's been my goal throughout my videos is connecting at the universal language touchpoint, which is the feeling. Yes. The inspiration. I mean, the control freak part, like, let's talk about that because I think, you know, people might view J.B.

You got it all figured out. No. And I feel sometimes in a similar, like, you know, we can present as maybe all knowing or like this Buddha martyr. Yeah, no. And I always try to just, you know, operate from a place of I just know what works best for me. Sure, I have some emotions and feelings. But do you ever feel like an imposter at times or feel like you're...

Completely. Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. Because I feel like that a lot. I mean, it's something I ask a lot of my guests. No, I'm glad that you asked. So I grew pretty big over a year.

So from like 23, 2020, May of 23rd, to 2024. And in the summer of 2024, I decided. to leave. I was doing a creative direction job at the time. I wasn't making money off of social media. So I had just been like, yo, I'm a creative director now and had clients and things like that. And I ended up leaving to like focus on my brand. And I didn't know what to do. And I remember finding myself back at this place of feeling very not good enough. And me having a million and two followers and my wife and I being 20 grand in debt. And I felt like a stupid businessman. And I felt like a stupid person. And I was like, how am I? You're a fraud. Yeah, like, no one wants to listen to me. And I went and got a Xanax

prescription in 2024. I couldn't sleep. Now, at that time, I mean, there's a lot of different thoughts on this. But like, I've met some folks in rehab or sorry, in recovery that are prescribed like a mood stabilizer. And they're open about that with their sponsors and they're still sober. Would you say that you were still sober or no? Okay. No. No. the panic attacks came back and I couldn't sleep at night. So I had a reason and I told my wife like, I have to get this. And she was like, it's fine. You were being open about it.

Yeah, I was being open. And not hiding. Well, that turned into like up until April of 2025. Wow. And so August of 2024 to April of 2025, I was, I wasn't abusing Xanax, but I was taking them nightly. And it just didn't sit right with me. So I went back to detox and there was a detox right down there. I went to detox and was there for seven days.

I detoxed off of it. How hard was that? I feel like it would be harder that next go around because you were, you've done so much work. It was just funny. I went there and like, it's like five people knew who I was. Oh, fuck. I know. You've already gotten to that level now.

And they were like, what are you doing here? The therapist knew who I, they were like, are you here to speak? And I was like, no. I'm getting, getting clean. But like, I think that that's what makes me mean. is like, I'm just going to be honest. And we need that, man, because it's not a light switch. Yeah, I'm not a guru.

I don't want to be one. And I'm not a coach. I'm not a therapist. I'm not licensed in any of that stuff. I'm more of like a brother. And I think that that's my brand is like, I struggle just like everyone else. And I think healing is an upward spiral. And I think that we go through times of darkness and light, I think, in growth and

evolution over and over again. And like that year from 2024 to 2025 grew me in ways that I never would have grown outside of that. It's part of the journey. And I've had to have grace with myself. You know, I couldn't sleep. Probably shouldn't have gone on Xanax, but I did. And but I was honest. I was honest with my wife. I was honest with my dad the time before I wasn't. And I got help. But that story, I think, just even, it's so, I think, relatable because I think, you know, people go to rehab and they don't always stay sober. Yeah. But not everybody tells that story, you know, like even the relapses or the ups and downs. Like, it's so important that you tell that because I think people just assume, you know, just like this.

Yeah. I think the struggle, I think the hard times that we walk through, the darkness that we walk through is what makes us. It's what shows us the light. 100%. And being able to work through that and be honest about it. And the world is a crazy place. It has a lot of ways to numb. There are so many different avenues in this world.

It's not the 1800s. We're not sitting out in the cabin and have nothing to do. Sometimes I wish we did. I know. And so it's like you feel discomfort. Okay, well, I'm going to numb on Netflix. You feel discomfort. Okay, well, I'm going to go find his annexed.

And so it's everything is just right there. I'm not saying that we should do this, but I'm saying that we should have grace for ourselves and be honest about where we're at. You know, I don't plan on using Xanax again. You know, I feel like I got that out of my system and I feel like I'm in a better place now. What are your kind of holistic?

I like to ask my guess, you know, what are things you do every day that are kind of your non-negotiables? Number one, I love a sauna. Sun home sauna has sent me a sauna. Oh, yeah. And I freaking love it. Are you to your daily sauna guy?

It's a daily sauna guy. I have an ice bath that I do. I don't ice bath every day I should, but. I went to an ice bath. today, I'm still a little bit of a baby. I did it, but I'm like, you know. Exactly. And yeah, it's sometimes a little bit too cold. I like to work out like three, four, five times a week. It just depends. And I'm just a very simple, I can't really like schedule myself because I don't do it if I

schedule. I'm very ADHD. But there's a breathwork on YouTube by Wimhoff and it's 11 minutes long. And if you just look up Wimhoff breathwork, it's the one that's 11 minutes. That has helped me tremendously. Is there a time of day that you do the breathwork starting or ending? It'd probably be best if I did it in the morning, but I don't. So I'll do it when I'm in the sauna or like, sure, whenever you get a moment. Yeah, when I get a moment. But that's the honesty we need.

When I first started hearing about meditation, I thought you had to sit with your legs crossed and like with your eyes closed and do this. Exactly. I realize you can actually not do that and still have a good session or. Yeah. I think all those things are very important. But I think what's most important is inspiration. And when we're, we live in our heads so much.

hard to be inspired when you're in your head you're dead and so i think for me what i really try and do do i find a feeling how do i get from my head to my heart i know this doesn't like follow all like the other wellness stuff of do this but like i like to watch a movie that's going to make me feel something music that makes you feel something a conversation that makes you feel i think the magic is in the inspiration is in the excitement and so i call that state shifting from i've got all this shit going on in my head. What do I need to do to find inspiration and get into my heart? And for me, it is arts, music. You know, sometimes it's working out. But really, it's more, how do I get inspired? And I feel like with sobriety is kind of made you cherish and appreciate

those things that I'm sure when you were drinking and using, you weren't, I mean, maybe music was a thing, but you probably didn't listen to the music really. Yeah, it's hard to find that inspiration when you're numbing. Exactly. You know, you're disconnected. But yeah, I draw. I mean, music for sure art and different like food even like yeah food i really appreciate these things where in the past i mean because all the cocaine i did i wasn't eating anything yeah but now i'm like i love food yeah exactly because i appreciate you know whether it's the flavors or whether the culture the story behind yeah i love that well you're inspiring now man and a lot of your your stuff you're doing is inspiring thank you i have one last question actually yeah which is something i ask all the

guess the concept of more life what's giving you more life right now what is giving me more life right now is right now I'm working on a book it's it's like two years away but being able to work on that book right now and find the inspiration to do that has been a ton of fun the other thing that's given me more life is my wife and we just got a new puppy hell yeah and I think kids are on the way pretty soon I want to be a dad I'm excited for family just the things close to me my wife my family simple my brothers yeah I love it man well I appreciate you coming in jibs seriously impressive what you're built and your story is certainly going to help a lot of people. It's helping me. I love hearing the family dreams and all your wife support. She deserves a lot of

acknowledgement for sure. I think a lot of times when I've had guests on, it's the loved ones in the lives of people who struggle or have had ups and downs that sometimes get forgotten about. And she's been that. She's been a warrior and rock star. So we've got to shout out your wife and all the other close friends and people who support you. But I love you, J.B. I appreciate you, man. We'll do this again. Thanks for coming on. Sure. Thank you for hanging with me on MoreLife today. Check us out. Wherever you get your podcast, Spotify, YouTube. Please like, subscribe, all the good things. Check us out next time here at Soft Bar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz, and recorded at Soft Bar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay.

Original music by Function Adams. Sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino. Set design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. And a special thanks to Allison Shano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time.