More Life with Carl Radke - Zac Clark on reality TV drinking culture & showing up

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

Carl sits down with his good friend Zac Clark (The Bachelorette) for a raw, honest conversation about addiction, recovery, and vulnerability on reality TV. Zac and Carl both open up about their lowest moments, the discipline of staying sober, and how accountability and purpose continue to shape their journeys toward more life.  About Release Recovery: Release is a nationally recognized, New York–based behavioral healthcare community offering safe and confidential support for substance use and mental health nationwide. Founded by a leader with lived experience in long-term recovery, Release is committed to breaking the stigma around addiction, alcoholism, anxiety, and depression. Through a blend of clinical expertise, real-world understanding, strong community, and an environment built for sustainable change, meaningful recovery is possible. No matter where you or a loved one is in the recovery process—call Release. Release is here to help. 914-588-6564 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruit Flies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen. These little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say, yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. On his podcast Chasing Life,

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. CNN's chief medical correspondent brings you the secrets of the happiest and healthiest people on the planet so that you can live your best life. Are some people just born happier than others? And what might they be doing that the rest of us aren't? Follow Chasing Life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Apple, Spotify, IHeart Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke, and welcome to more life. I've got a very special guest today. He's a close friend of mine, a great guy. His name is Zach Clark. He is the founder of release recovery, an incredible organization based here in New York City. He has so much information and a wealth of knowledge on sobriety, running a business, reality TV. Can't wait to get to talk to Zach. So excited. Hope you guys check us out. Coming live from Soft Bar here in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

Zach Clark, welcome to More Life. Thanks for being here. I appreciate you. It's an easy one. It's good seeing you in the space. You've been here. We were here about a month ago for the Release Recovery Run Club. Yes.

Which was a massive success. Congrats on the marathon. Thank you, you too. By the way, just to give a quick, this guy talked me off a ledge. You don't know, I don't know if you remember this moment, but I almost missed the bus making the marathon morning. Yes. I forgot that there's traffic and roadblocks set up for the race. I live in Greenpoint.

I couldn't get across the Pulaski Bridge to get. get into the city. So I was almost late to the bus. I get to the bus finally. You were sitting there very chill, very composed, and I'm like, and you're like, bro, it's going to be okay. I always tell people, you're going to get to the start line and you're going to run. It is going to work out. I promise you. That's more or less what you said. It was like, it's going to be okay, man. This is a couple years ago. I was getting together with a friend of mine, Kyle Axman, and we're sitting having coffee after a workout. Kyle Axman's a big trainer here in New York City does a lot of fitness stuff. We're having coffee. And this is about 2021, 2021, 2022. I was really trying to like step my foot more in the sobriety

recovery space and really be open about my story to try to help other people. And Kyle Axman says to me, he goes, you know Zach Clark? I said, I think I've seen him on The Bachelor. And he's like, you don't know him? And I'm like, not know him. He's like, pulls out his phone immediately. He texted you. You texted me, I think, within 30 minutes. And I went into release recovery and I visited you guys on 19th Street. Yep. And just started a friendship and a bond and just have gotten to know you over the last couple of years.

So thank you again for being here. Yeah. I love everything you're doing and you're a big inspiration. So this podcast is called More Life. Okay. Now, I used to drunkenly say this many years ago on reality TV. I think More Life is just a saying that I love. It's all about living to your best potential work hard, play hard, just really leaving

it all out there. So it's a saying that I love, but do you have a favorite phrase or saying that you often find yourself repeating. Yeah. Before I do, I just, dude, that, like when we met, I'm just rooting for you, bro. Thanks, man. I'm just fucking rooting for you. And it's one of the things, the older you get and the more you, like, trudge this road,

it's so much easier to just root for people. And you're one of those guys. You're very easy to root for. So thank you for having me. I feel very grateful to be here. My, keep going, man. Keep going. It's just very simple.

It's one of my favorite. I saw it recently, Virgil Ablo, who's RIP to Virgil. It was one of the quotes he was all about. It was like, it doesn't matter, you don't have to have it all figured out. You don't need all the answers right now. Just keep going. It's the one thing you can't take away from someone. The guy there, the girl, it keeps showing up that just is relentless, like that junkyard dog,

they ultimately end up winning. Yep. It's one of my favorite qualities. And you even said this at one of our release Run Club events was, in reference It's actually to Caitlin Healy who shows up like crazy. She's an amazing person. Like, that's a quality that is never a bad thing. Being reliable, showing up for people, being a supportive person, rooting for other people.

I'm rooting for you too, man. Thank you. You almost have made me question some of my own efforts in service and trying to help and support others. Because I've looked at what you've done. I'm like, dude, Zach's fucking... Well, I think that people forget. I mean, that's one of the polarizing things about me and my life that I struggle with sometimes is I did. I went on the bachelor in 2020.

That was an awesome experience. What I think people don't realize is that I had a long career well before that. You know, my story really starts at 27 when I got clean. And prior to that, I loved the party. I love the drink. I progressed to hard drug usage, so Ivy heroin, crack cocaine. And so at 27 years old, I was, you know, I was lost. I had had a brain tumor in my 20s.

There had been a lot of debauchery. and a lot of that was just not really knowing who I was. And so I got sober. I went to rehab a couple times. I was married. I ended up getting divorced. And I showed up in New York City in early 2012. What brought you to New York City at that point?

Well, that's the thing. I don't know God, spirituality, the universe. I don't know why I came here. I still, to this day, I mean, there's nothing that I don't like the sports teams. It's expensive, you know, like my father. drilled into me that, you know, we don't like New Yorkers. Like, whatever you want to say, right? Did you have a plan?

Did I have a plan? No. Did you like, to stay sober. That was my plan. Well, how many years sober are you now? 14. I had 14 in August. Amazing.

Incredible. And to go back just before you got to New York, you'd mention you got sober, clean and sober when you were 27. August 30th, 2011. The last, my last drink was a Coors Light, August 29th of 2011. Me and my mom and dad were staying at a holiday. in about an hour from the treatment center that we went to. And we sat there. I had a couple Xanax in my

pocket. I was withdrawing from opiates. And me and my mom and my dad looked at each other. And we literally drank Coors Light. My dad's a silver bullet guy. And we went cheers to my last drink. And to this day is my last drink. And I remember being in rehab and all the therapists trying to say my parents were enabling me or that wasn't the right way to do it. Stop, stop. Can you still taste with that beer taste of like? I don't miss the beer. I don't miss the drink. I don't really I don't miss any of it to be very clear. I don't. I really don't. If you've ever done heroin, there is a taste that you get in the back of your throat, which you will never forget. And that is a taste that I certainly still remember. The weird thing is I never did like shooting up heroin or anything like that. However, I did

trial some oxycontents at one point. I had some friends that were into it. It was almost like they're doing. It seems cool. Yeah. I'm very lucky. I got really sick when I first attempted to do it. Did your brother, I mean, did that keep you? Did you, they're a little scared straight from you because you saw your brother, yeah. Yeah, there was an element of my growing up where there was police activity at our house

when I was like 10, 11. My brother had, he was running with the wrong crowd. He was smoking weed and drinking underage. His grades in school were kind of going down. He was getting in trouble. He ran with the wrong crew and they were involved in like a 7-11 convenience store like situation. Amazing.

This is a true story. My mom corrected me, though. It wasn't during the Super Bowl or the AFC playoffs. It was just another Saturday. But I had this memory of they were playing the New England. Steelers were playing the New England Patriots. I had a bunch of guy friends over. I was 12 at the time.

And during the party, my dad answers the door to a knock. And there was five police officers outside. And they had a warrant to search our house. My dad goes to my mom, like, get the kids. And police entered the house, arrested my brother right in front of all my guy friends. and my brother was handcuffed on the stairs and basically going to us like, well, this hands behind his back.

I'm so sorry, guys. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything wrong. Police go upstairs, search the house, flipped it upside down. Didn't find anything. But that was like one of the first moments printed in my brain

where like police read our house, shit was going down and it was because my brother. But from that 12, 13 years old, I was like, I'm going to do everything in my power to be not him. Yeah. Our name in our town,

my father went to school there. My aunts and uncles went to school in Pittsburgh. So people knew the Radkee name, but then my brother really took it to a different direction. He was in trouble all over town. He got in trouble. He stole money from an outback steakhouse that he'd worked at. It was in the local paper.

So most people, when I came around, they're like, oh, what are we going to get with him? So I made it a point to not be anything like him. And which funny is I was just running away from what was staring at me the whole time. I used to make fun of his, drug issues. I used to rip on them.

So release, part of what I do today, I know we were kind of talking about who I am, is I run a treatment program, you know, in New York City and Austin. We just opened a program out there, and it's funny to your point about, call us if you need help, seriously call us. He needs it, and they will answer

and they do some of the best work. Yeah. Incredible stuff. But that's so many people's story, right? We'll get someone in our care, and they'll say, I didn't drink until I was 22 because I was, my dad or my mom was not. alcoholic. And then the second they start, all bets are off. And so when we look at addiction and

substance abuse and people want to say, is it a disease? You know, I don't care. I don't get caught up in the language. Is it a disease? I think so probably. And so for me, I think the misconception that the public has around addiction is that the drugs and the alcohol were my medicine. Right. It was my medicine. It worked. It quieted my mind. And so when I eventually need to get sober at 27, you're taking my medicine away. You're taking my crack cocaine. You're taking my heroin. You're taking my core's light. And you're ripping it away from me. So then it's, I'm left with a, a hole in my soul that I then need to fill with other medication, which for me is the meetings, the community, you know, the running, the mental health, whatever it is. And that's the part that I think

people miss is like, why don't they just stop? Because the drugs in the alcohol work. I started drinking and I knew from the first sip that I loved alcohol. I just knew that I loved the relief that it kind of gave me. Do you remember when you had your first drink? Yeah, it was a Christmas Eve party and, you know, I was 13, 14 years old and one of the older kids, like classic guys offered me a Miller High Life. I drank it. The champagne of beers. Champaign of beers. What did you guys, you guys, Paps? Keystone Light. Keestone Light. Natty Light. We were in Natty light, big Natty Light, Natty Ice, if we were getting real frisky. Natty ice, you really want to get after it?

Yeah, yeah. Five-nine, that shit was gross. I lived in this one square mile of town and we would go garage hopping and then if we struck out on the garages, yes. We called a garaging. Riches robbery. We'd steal from the neighbors. They would be usually a fridge in some of these garages.

You'd enter like on a afternoon when they were doing yard work. But the hook was, if you ever got caught in there, you would say you're looking for your dog. Like the dog would run away. You guys had a dog. But yeah, we used to steal beer from the neighbor's garage. But if we struck out garage hopping, we would then go to the woods and go on these hunts. And if you were lucky, you would find like three natural ice that are three months old and you would drink them.

I'm smiling because it brings me back to my youth because that's exactly what it was. I mean, it was the best. Then I got to college. I went to York College. It was in Pennsylvania. It's a small little school. I played baseball. And I really took it upon myself to show people and teach people how to drink because I had been drinking now for three or four or five years.

and I just knew that it was different for me. I loved it so much, and I built my entire existence around ceremonializing, like getting drunk and having the party and the kegars and the ice loosges and the whole thing. And so I graduated college and I'm depressed. I'm sad. I'm like, damn, that's it?

Like, that part of my life is over. And so I had met a girl and we moved to my hometown and we both kind of got our first jobs and we were living a decent life. and then, you know, and then I got the brain tumor. How did you discover you had something going on? I was not right. I mean, like seeing kaleidoscopes falling over,

people thought I had vertigo. The truth is, I went to this x-ray place, and the woman was shocked to see something. You know, people come in there all day every day, and they see nothing. So I was rushed to the hospital, and I was in surgery the next day. And so coming out of that, I was prescribed the pills.

Got it. That's when I first knew, like, oh, there's another level of this shit. Want to go electric without sacrificing fun? That's the Volkswagen ID4. All-electric and thoughtfully designed to elevate your modern lifestyle. The Volkswagen ID4 is fun to drive with instant acceleration that makes city streets feel like open roads,

plus a refined interior with innovative technology always at your fingertips. The all-electric ID4, you deserve more fun. Visit vw.c.ca. to learn more. German engineered for all. Sure. So when you were in college ripping it up, partying, being like kind of the man of the hour, did you ever dabble in any other things? Yeah, I mean, there was Coke, there was Adderall to study, there was a riddle.

Like it was like, so this is two thousand, it's riddle in, it's five ants, it's anything that you can crush up and put up your nose. Yep. I don't know if you remember the first time doing Coke, but the first time I did Coke, I remember waking up my dorm room, my freshman year after doing Coke with some of the older guys. And the immediate thought and pit in my stomach was what did my parents find out. I was so terrified and I stayed in bed that entire day and then the next weekend I was like how do we do that again?

Yep. I remember my first time. I was in Acapulco sophomore year at Syracuse. We did a big spring break trip. And when I blew that line in the hotel room, the immediate thing I thought is if my brother or my parents find out, they're going to kill me. But I remember also feeling this is great.

I feel so good. And how old were you then? About 19, 20. And you went on the show. When did the Summer House run? Summer House didn't start until I was 30 years old. So about 10 years after I graduated, eight years after college.

And you were living in the city at the time? Yeah, I was. Yeah, I mean, for me, like, my college experience, probably similar to yours. Like, I drank was a big social connection. I was in a fraternity. The fraternity I was in, we loved cocaine. It was, like, the drug of choice at most parties. And a lot of my friends at Syracuse, and I love New York, don't get me wrong,

but, like, they had all been doing Coke since 15 at nightclubs in New York. And they were, like, bottle service, Coke, and Adderall. And I'm like, it was all new to me. You've gotten a brain tumor diagnosis. You're going into surgery. You're in recovery now. on pain meds. So there's a couple things.

One, in 2007, 2008, there's no, we are not aware of the opioid. No. I mean, it was still, pharmaceutical sales reps, we're still pushing it then. We are not aware of the opioid epidemic, which means there is no doctor sitting me down and saying,

hey, I am giving you these medications. These medications are highly addictive. It was simply, hey, here's, you have pain, take this, you won't have pain anymore. And for my mind and the way my body responds to things that feel, good, it was a home run.

So I was off and running. Do you remember what that first prescription was? This is the thing that I think people that want to stigmatize the word heroin, I always laugh because I always say, do you realize that every hospital in the country is basically legally administering heroin all day, every day through the forms of the lauded and morphine and all these other drugs. And then you get out and yeah, you get a script of morphine, percette, but the perk 30 is 30 milligrams of perk set with no other filler.

So it is just another level. And once I got my hands on those, it was game over. It was game over. You weren't able to get your prescriptions. You were getting them from other places. Yeah, I mean, I was a horrible drug addicts. I always laughed. I had an x-ray that basically I probably could have taken into any doctor in the country

and said, I'm having pain because I had this brain tumor. And I just never thought to do that. So once my scripts ran out from the brain surgery, I maybe milked that for a little bit. And then I started buying them on the street, which at the time, you were paying probably a dollar a milligram. So if you're getting a 30 milligram percocet or an 80 milligram oxy cotton, you're paying a dollar milligram. So it was an expensive habit. Very expensive.

Yeah, I remember when I did try that OC 80, we paid $80 for that pill. It was this tiny little brown thing. My friend licked the exterior coating off so you could crush it up. I've never been more sick in my entire. You got ill. So sick. And that's actually, I thank God every day because my friend did go down that path. And he's still alive, luckily, and was able to get sober.

Nice. for whatever reason, you know, I didn't respond. But like, what would you say it was a typical day at this point in your life of active addiction for you? Like, wake up, get high or? So my life in active addiction, again, was pretty polarizing because, and this is the part that I think a lot of people miss, Carl. I think a lot of people miss this about addiction. You can keep it together for a very long time. It does not look the way that it is depicted on movies.

99 out of 100 times. So for me, again, going back to this idea that the pills were my medicine, I needed Percocet or Oxycontin to physically get out of bed. And if I didn't, I was going to spend the entire morning searching for my drug dealer to whatever it was. And I was going to blow off any responsibility I had because I would get sick. And so on a good day, when I had my medicine, I would wake up. I would take my medication, you know, snort it.

by the end I was smoking them. And once I had that first one in me, then it was like, let's go. And you were able to perform in life. Yes, went to work. My first job was I was a recruiter. I was good at it because I was high all the time and I was just like smiling and dialing. Ripping phone calls. Yeah, ripping phone calls, ripping darts, Newports, shout out Newports.

Wow. And just getting people jobs. So you were able to maintain that gig while still being active addiction. And I'm glad you said that because I think a lot of people, even with my story, Like I didn't look like your typical, like what I had this perception or feeling like what you just said is like from a movie. You see like the haggard guy on the park bench who's got a brown paper bag and a 40. That's what I thought like alcoholics looked like. Well, that's where we need to be better.

I mean, as a nation and as a country and as a community. You go to the wealthiest town in America and you go to that town's country club and you walk in those doors on a Friday and Saturday night. You were going to hit square in the face with alcoholism. And then the affairs. And it's just because it doesn't look the way that movies and society tells us that it looks, I was talking to some people before about Kensington, you know, like... Kensington, Philly? Yeah, it's...

And for the watchers, I know this, and I'm from Pittsburgh, but Kensington is probably one of the biggest open-air drug markets in Philadelphia and nationwide. It's like a rough... And there it looks pretty gnarly. The environment I grew up in was, it looked like, I don't know, the country club life. It was like the buttoned up people. But then you had my brother who actually didn't look like that.

He was like tie-dye shirts and he looked a little rough around the edges. But then for me and my story, I mean, people would never know. I mean, my goal in every day that I got hired drunk was like, I didn't want you to know. Right. You know, I was trying to hide behind that. Yeah, that becomes a game in itself. Did you have a rock bottom moment? In August of 2011.

And at this point, just to paint the picture, I'm like, not that weight, I mean, I'm 250 pounds. so I am basically the regimen is... It's hard for me to wrap my head around you being $2.50. I'll give you a picture. I'll give you a picture. So I'm smoking crack all day, which in theory you should be not putting on weight. And then at night, I'm taking my antipsychotic meds,

which is Seraquil. And Seraquil, one of the side effects is it makes you very hungry. So I would order Papa Johns. After taking my antipsychotic meds, the Papa Johns would come. I would hammer an extra large pizza, guzzle the garlic sauce, fall asleep, and then repeat the next day.

So somehow I'm putting on weight as a crackhead, right, in my later days. And it's just classic. And we can laugh about it today. I know. I'm glad we can laugh. I hope. It's fucking funny. It's funny.

We're allowed to laugh. I'm here. I'm alive. I'm sober. It's all good. I appreciate that. You know? Like, that's part of the thing here is, is we take this shit too seriously.

Thank you for saying that because I appreciate the laughing about it. And sometimes I'm very candid with friends that aren't in the community or in recovery. And I'll make a couple of recovery. And I'll make a comment about six years ago, me doing some crazy cocaine thing. And they're like, I'm like, no, that's funny as well. Yeah, you get all nervous and weird. And like, are we a lot of talking about that? No, we're good.

And you've taught, you've taught me that to kind of embrace the, let's laugh at it. You know, it's, it's something that you got to wrap your arms around a little bit more. So in those last days, Rock Bottom, yeah, I'm 20. So I'm basically at the end of the road, right? I have no more money. I'm not able to show up to work anymore. My wife has, I was married at the time. You got married in between all this?

Yeah, so I got married in 2009. So you were an active addiction when getting married, basically. She basically sent me to rehab once. And then after I got high, after that first rehab, said I'm out. And she's awesome. She saved my life. So now we're into 2011. And the wheels have completely fallen off.

And I have two drug dealers, dog and bro, that I am rolling around with. I had three Coke guys. Yeah. I'm with you. And these guys are, I get why people don't like drug dealers. Like, to me, I see. saw the humanity in these guys. They were just trying to feed their families.

They were just trying to make a buck. Neither of them did drugs. That's such a wild thing to think through. I know. And so we basically had this plan. I was going to cast this check. This $5,000 was going to go towards our next kind of business, whatever. And so I walk into this bank.

I try to cast a check. A woman by the name of Rhonda Jackson, who was a bank teller, looks me in the eye and says, I'm calling your dad. You know, she could have called the cops. She could have done a bunch of other things. but in that moment she saw me. She saw me for who I was. She saw me struggling.

I'm forever grateful for her. And like the lesson in that story is just be kind. She called my dad, who happened to be at the office, answers the phone. And within like 20 minutes, he's at the bank putting his arm on my arm saying, some were going home. And home was rehab. And so rock bottom, August 28th, 29th of 2011, this woman who, by the way, is not a therapist. She's not a psychiatrist.

She's not a teacher. She's not family. A bank manager saves my life by doing the right thing. And I'll never, ever forget it. The other point I wanted to make, which you were alluding to, is how we tell our stories. I mean, you give me the confidence, you know, seeing you speak so publicly and openly and authentically,

it's contagious for someone like myself. What was the first time you said you told people you were getting? So do you remember publicly? I think it was a combination. I originally said, like, I need to get help is what I said. And I'm looking at getting help. I talked about that publicly. Did you want to rehab?

No. I never went to rehab. I actually was sat down by two different people that said, I think you should. Yeah. But then COVID happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was almost like I rehab in a weird way. Yeah, intervention.

Couldn't really go out. Yeah. However, that initial thing I said to myself was, there's no way I'm an alcoholic. I can't be. Like, there's, no. Like, I'm just going to stop drinking wine or stop drinking beer. Yeah. And as we all know, if you really do struggle, that was over very quickly.

but it was not a linear path. It was around the fall of 2019. I had a really rough filming with Summerhouse and was actually a girlfriend of mine, we weren't dating, but I would call her at three in the morning and FaceTime her and do cocaine and drank while calling her,

like facetiming her. She lived in Los Angeles. So she's always three hours behind. She was a good friend, but like after a while, like I would call her all that. She was attractive, we'd flirt, I'd say crazy shit, whatever. She finally in the fall of 2019, she's like, I'm not going to pick up your calls anymore.

She's like, you have a real problem. And I'm like, fuck you. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, you question my drinking, you're cut off. So I kind of was like, fuck her for a bit. But then a couple months passed and she says, I really think you should go to a Tony Robbins seminar. Amazing. So I went to date with Destiny in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Shout out to Sean White and Eddie George. They were sitting in the rose right there. And I was like, I love Eddie George, Heisman Trophy winner. I love Sean White, gold medal, snowboarder. badass. They're here, but it wasn't necessarily about like alcoholism. It was just about finding something and digging deeper. And so I was there that first day and I saw something happen at Tony Robbins with a father and a son. And at that point in my life, I was not speaking to my dad. I had a lot of resentment and anger. My parents had gone through a divorce and my dad had an affair. And I really got upset

with my father about the whole thing. But I used my father's story as a excuse for me to drink. I literally would say this, even on TV. Sorry about last night. My parents are getting a divorce. It's like, what? It's not even a, how do you connect? Self-righteous alcoholism. Exactly. So that was, my path was around 2019,

realizing I had to get some help. I went to Tony Robbins, first day back. I flew back into LaGuardia, got back to my Soho apartment, had a couple beers in my apartment, and immediately called a cocaine dealer. Yeah.

And it was like Tony Robbins never existed. Right. So it was just this roller coaster. And then COVID happened. And I was kind of forced to stay inside, but that's when I really started to open up. But when I really admitted that I had a problem wasn't until January 6th, 7th of 2021.

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deli meat sliced just the way you want, and avocados that aren't still hard as a puck in the third period. So don't cross your fingers and hope for the best. Download the app and get groceries just how you like with Instacart. But it had been from that fall of 2019 that I realized that something was up. Right. To be completely honest, the part of my story that I was uncomfortable talking about was the

cocaine. Yeah. I did everything in my power early on to just, it was this alcohol, just alcohol. Because I've, the perception, even with heroin, too, it's like this other side of like, oh my God, it's like so intense and ugly and dark. And even Coke kind of gets put into that. And the cocaine thing is bizarre because everyone does cocaine. Literally everyone does cocaine.

Everyone. And that's why I used to joke when I wasn't buying it, I would go into a bathroom in New York and you'd trip and fall into it. Yeah. But talking about it publicly and being honest was so scary because cocaine to me was another level. I remember the moment where I was like, everyone kind of leaves high school.

They go off to college. And then you get back together for, or Thanksgiving or whatever it is. And you realize everyone's doing cocaine? I'm like, oh, it's like that? Yeah, that's exactly. I mean, we would go home and it was repeating. I'm talking like 80% of the graduating class

are doing blow. Yeah. And that's, I feel like New York City is like that a lot. Probably more. I mean, yeah, probably more. And so. But no one's honest really about it. And it's such a weird drug work.

Which is like the thing, right? I get in a way why, but it just bothers me because it created this kind of fear and being really honest in myself. And true story, I got sat down by two executives that I worked with for the TV stuff. And in the moment, they were like, you need to get help. And I'm like, yeah, am I drinking?

And one of them looked at me. And I'll never forget. She kind of looks at me. And she's like, is it just you're drinking? And the way she said it, man, I just was like, they know. Because for that whole time, I was like, no one knows about the Coke. It's just the booze. But the way she looked at me and unraveled my, I was like,

okay they know and that was something over time i finally was like you know what i'd rather people hate me for who i really am than love me for who i'm not but it's still not easy but it was like a weird thing being really honest about cocaine so publicly all i'm thinking about as you're telling this story is like it's like the guy who's newly sober the girl is newly sober and says like i can't be seen walking into therapy i can't be seen walking into a meeting what if someone i know sees me. And I want to say like, but you'll take your shirt off high on cocaine in a New York City bar at 11 o'clock on Saturday night. And there's no problem with that. Like there's no like, none. You know, it's just so crazy the warped way that we think about some of these things. It's like,

oh, you're going to a place to better yourself as a human being. God forbid someone sees you. God forbid you tell them the truth, you know. And I got to that place with my story. and I never looked back where I just said, I'm just going to fucking tell my story the way it is and my response or the response

has been in large part that's awesome. Yeah, it permeates. Like me now being more confident and open. I've had people tell me that like, dude, I've never been able to be honest

about the Coke part of my story, but you being honest about it has allowed me to. And that makes me feel really good, but it was really weird at first because it was like, it's like this weird drug that I'm like,

but everybody does it, but it's such a... Well, the part that's hard. for you dude is you also you also struggled publicly you know you you the world that large only knows me as sober guy so in 2020 i went on the bachelor well that's why i love to get into that because i think there is a similarities in you and i story and i love being you know i love that we're kind of in this reality world but now we live in this kind of this recovery world and really authentic lifestyle when you joined reality you were sober i'm so damn grateful for you

for that experience, you know, going on that show and the life lessons and the people. And it's also been something that I've had to work through in my professional life is like people taking me seriously. You know, because of the, just like we talk about stigma with something like cocaine, there's a stigma around people that go on reality television that I think you and I know really well. And most of that stigma comes from same gender, like comes from guys. and, you know, being called a douchebag or whatever it is. Yeah, fuck boy, piece of shit. Yeah, I've lived it all.

So at this point. And that's real talk, man. And I don't talk about this stuff a lot, but I'm here with you. It's just like, that's something that I've had to work through, you know? For sure. And it's something, I mean, I think, given how you've been able to turn, you've had that reality experience, but then what you've done professionally and since, I think is incredible.

It's like actually beautiful to see you've leveraged some of the awareness from the show, of course. You can see when someone's striving towards something. Yeah. If you follow Carl Radke right now, you know he is driving towards something. He is driving towards softbar. He's driving towards positivity. He's driving towards bettering yourself as a human.

Like, it's very clear. And you've evolved as a human. I've evolved as a human. I made a very clear decision when I came off of that show that I was not going to do anything that was going to misaline with me and my values. Was there anything that prior to, like, even, like, was there? or anything you were nervous about going on that show? And then...

So I went on during COVID. It was 2020. I, my sister and my mom, I was 36. So it was a year. So Claire was the lead that year. And she ended up linking up with one of the other castmates. And so, you know, I don't want to misspeak, but like she was an older, you know, it was an older cast and historically had been.

So at 36, I was like, you know, in the right age. Because Claire... The young attractive guy. Yeah. I think Claire was also 36 or 37 or whatever when she, when she was. was the lead. And so the first round had been put on hold because they showed up in Hollywood in March of 2020. So they basically paused the season and they didn't bring it back until June and they recasted. So I was in that second round of casting. Who put your name in that?

My mom and my sister. Oh, they put your name in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, because I was 36, like living on the Upper West Side in New York, working my ass off and not really dating. And so like what better way to just put yourself out, you know? And so it was a crazy time. I mean, the world was shut down. Yeah. And the way those things work, as you probably know, is there's no real access to media, phone, TV, any of that.

And so I don't, I'm there and I don't know what's going on. I literally don't know what's going on in the world. Like, I don't know if COVID's cured. I don't know if we're in a world shutdown. It's just you're in this bubbling, literally in a bubble for three months. And it was wild. Did you find any of your sobriety or recovery kind of, challenged by that environment?

It was an advantage. I mean, it was... I love hearing that. I'm going to have him say that again. It was an advantage in that environment. Now, is there drinking at the best? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, there's drinking. I mean, and guys would drink and I don't... I've learned to stop taking other people's inventory. Smart. You know, it's because it's a slippery slope. And if people, if people want to approach me about their drinking or their drug use, I will have that conversation anytime, anywhere. It is not my job to diagnose people.

And so unless I'm asked or paid professional, you know. Well said. I had a period of five years on the show where I was drinking and then I stopped. But I felt like I'm like this fish out of water because it was like, how do I go back in the same room where I was previously? Just because people don't know. They don't know. And that's an opportunity, right? And for me to say, like, dude, I'm not here to make you feel uncomfortable.

Yeah. And did you make the guys or anybody else feel uncomfortable? unintentionally. Because I know I have when I first got... I think the person who feels uncomfortable is probably the person

needs help. Exactly. Yeah. 100%. And they'll come up to you later and tell you that. Yeah. You'd be like, hey man,

tell me more about this. Right. You're like, glad you asked. What is this? What do you mean you don't drink? How is dating on that show publicly sober? Because that's something I've encountered.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that I think you could ask me about anything. And so I wasn't there with one or two years sobriety. I was there and I had long, term sobriety when I showed up. So everything in my life was built around this idea that I'm just going to walk into this with the most authentic version of myself that I possibly can.

And I'm going to be really comfortable with my story. And if someone wants to judge my story or think things about my story that are not true or just say, hey, I don't really want a sober person. That's not my job to determine it. My job is to show up as we talked about at the beginning and have an experience. And that has served me really well over the year. I'm sure, because it sounds like your sister and your mom submitted you because you weren't really dating. I know early on when I got sober, I was afraid to date just because I was told, wait a year,

you know, focused on your recovery and that first year is so important. Things are changing. Life's kind of, you're reestablishing yourself. You had had some years of sobriety. Had you been dating at all? Yeah, I did the whole New York thing, man, for many years, you know, before Raya. Did you have anybody like, oh. well, you know, Zach, great story, really nice guy, but the sober thing isn't for me.

I don't know that that ever happened to my face. Sure. And I definitely have never had the experience of kind of like the person questioning what's in my cup. I don't think that happens as often as people fear it might. Yeah. I'll tell you that I, more often than not, it was me deciding, hey, like, this actually isn't going to work for me. Got it. Because of the way that you're behaving.

Sure. You know, like, I remember making out with a girl that was, that I was not aware was doing cocaine all night and getting like a little bit of the numbies and then being like, you were doing Coke, you know, and totally calling it out. And to her credit, she was honest about it. And in that moment, that night, I think we just whatever carried on with the night. And then the next day, I was kind of just like, this probably is not going to work. I mean, I love the secondhand smoke. And I love the fact that you're enjoying a sophisticated line of cocaine on a Saturday night. But it's probably not going to work for me.

Well said. I mean, when you, when you joined the show, had you built your business release recovery yet? Yeah, we were popping. We were pop. I mean, it was not, it was nowhere near what it is. So today we're like, you know, we're like I said, we're 90 beds throughout, you know, like over 100 employees. When did you make this transition to behavioral health care? When I got sober. When I got sober, I knew when I moved to New York in 2012, I mean, I got a job, an entry level job, basically a tech, you know, at a recovery program, you know, house manager doing all the, all. the things and then hung a shingling, did that for five years, worked for some good guys, and then for five years, and then in 2017, hung a shingle. That was the first year. Bought a property up in Westchester County and, you know, the town didn't want us there, not my backyard, a bunch of drug addicts against stigma, fought them, learned about all the local small town politics and that house is still there. It's our OG house. I mean, that's really where I get the most fulfillment in life

is when I get to put the phone down and be back on day one with a lot of these folks that are just just trying to. Is that the reminder you need? Sober people are the best. And like, there is nothing. I mean, your family's seen it. My family's seen it. When the lights go on for someone and people get sober,

it's physical, it's mental, it's spiritual. It's your smile right now. It's emotional. The wholesale change that takes place when someone gets sober is, there's nothing that beats it. So for me, getting to be and run a program where folks are coming into our care, families are coming into our care in crisis

and saying, please help us. And being able to be a small part of that is just... Yeah, it's got to feel really good. Something I've, maybe you can explain just your perspective, but like I grew up with a heroin addicts, my brother. After a period of time, it's like there's... You try to help and then he burns the bridge. Or, you know, he stole my bike,

he stole my video games, all the things. You don't know how to help anymore and you become just lost. I mean, how do you protect yourself? Because I used to get to a point where I'd be like trying to help him and trying to support him and then I'd lose myself in that process. How do I protect myself? I mean, it's doing what I'm going to do tonight. Go be around sober people, you know, keeping my commitments to that community and

the people that, you know, I knew in my early days, understanding that I'm not God. Like, I'm not going to get anyone drunk and I'm not going to get anyone sober. I can do the best I can to give some sound, sage advice, just like if someone wants to get their haircut. Yeah, go to this barber. This is the barber I've been to. This is what I did. Was your sobriety at all challenged with those stressors

or not making payroll or the town is kind of vetoing your business? I'm a little, yeah, I'm a little hardheaded with that stuff. Like I think one of the things that really separates me if I can be not so humble for a moment is I'm a believer. Like I just absolutely, if it's something that I'm a fundamentally, I believe, I just believe. And I always kind of just believe that it was going to work out. It didn't always look like that. Sure.

I will say that I do worry about people, myself included, making their job, their sobriety. And that's where it can get kind of ugly. Like for me, I have to continue to nurture my own personal recovery. outside of any professional career. Well said. Yeah. It's almost like in the three months we've been open here, you know, I've had nights where I'll wake up in the middle of night

thinking about something. Yeah. But it reminds. Like the things that you're, it's like me, like you're the guy now that like, I wish I could grab that Carl's going to be okay. Yeah.

Humans live in paralyzing fear over nothing. The worst thing that can happen is, and look, dude, I was a guy. I was a kid growing up. Like I never asked girls. that I needed to know that a girl had a crush on me prior to, prior to, because I was so scared of rejection. And I know that about myself now. I know that. And I would have friends that could ask anyone out anytime. And the girl would be like, ew, no, you're like, cool, next. And I'm like,

what do you mean, dude? Like, I'd be, like, I'd be crippled. Like, it'd be so sad and be like, oh my God. No, I appreciate all your openness. I mean, you said something before, and I feel like you could maybe shed some light on this. What is like, misconception that you'd love to clear up or kind of change about addiction. Mine sometimes is like it's not all one size fits all. Yeah. You know, and what may work best for Zach may work differently for Carl. I think everybody wants that one, you know, quick fix.

Is there something about addiction that you wish you could change the misconception a little bit? I think it's just that it's not a failure. Yeah. You're not a failure for struggling. And I'm very cognizant of the fact that I, I am like way over here in terms of enthusiasm and passion for recovery. And there's going to be people in the middle and there's going to be people that are hanging on for dear life every single day to stay sober.

And no matter where you fall on that line, I think that giving yourself a little bit of credit for even trying is a big deal. Doesn't make you a bad person. And we could talk about this for hours, right? Like there are so many bad decisions made when people are active in their addiction that tear their families apart. Yep. That sometimes are insurmountable because their forgiveness is just needed is just too large. But the first person that anyone needs to forgive in this journey is themselves. That's some of the hardest work.

Yeah. And that's where I think a lot of people get jammed up because they want to go out to everyone else and try to kind of mend their behavior. When realities, they got to look at the person staring back at them in the middle. That's something I'm still working on, to be completely honest. Being more kind of my... I mean, you said something just believing in yourself. How do you believe in yourself? Because I've had my doubts.

And like, I'm on one side very confident. And on the other side, I am very insecure and feel very like, I don't fit in and all that. I think for me, it just comes back to kind of having some self-awareness and really trying to understand who I am. But you're not cocky. You're confident. Yeah. Which I think is a great... balance. Oh, no, I'm not like cock. I need value. I seek validation. The confidence just comes from like, look, if I was selling urinal cakes or like trading on Wall Street, I don't know that I would be confident, right? But because I have been through this and I know firsthand how fortunate I am to have the life that I've been given, it makes it easier for me to have confidence that what I am doing and where I'm walking towards is the right thing.

But what makes me a believer, I just, because I'm a miracle. I can't believe I'm alive. And that's why I'm in the position I'm in is. And do, people would ask me about you. Like, Carl, this guy's the fucking best, guys. Like, you just don't even have to worry about it. Because to have your evolution and what you've been through, and I know bits and pieces of it.

But like, I know you as a human being, you know, on a very fundamental level. And people ask you about you, I'm just like the best. Next question. It's like, if I could go back and get my brother back, I would. But then it's like all of this shit that's put me in this position. It shaped me. It's made me stronger. It's given me a new lease on life.

I feel very lucky to be in this position. But at the same time, there's always that like, you know, I wish I didn't have to go through all of that to get here in a weird way. But I almost feel like it's my calling. It's God's got a plan. And I'm just, you know, following that. coming up to a wrap up here. So we obviously talked about the concept of more life, my kind of version.

I love Keep Going. I think it's one of the best sayings. I actually have kind of adopted it myself. I love it a lot. But what's giving you like more life right now? It could be something in your life. It could be a family member. I'll give you an example.

My mom came up here. Yeah. And we did an interview. And she told a very honest, I don't want to cry, but it might be hard for me not to. After my brother had passed, she was struggling with wanting to. to be around in a way. And I was a sense of like why she still shows up for life

and still comes back. Because like burying my brother and losing him was very tragic and difficult for my mom and my family, but my mom most importantly. And there was a period of time after his passing where she was like, what am I doing here? But I've given her some sense of pride and she's proud and like a new chapter.

And me getting sober and me taking my life, trying to take you back control and really being honest about what I was struggling with, it's given her some peace and like a little gift. And what she said to me up here about it, I was like, I cried because I'm just like, it was just a beautiful thing. And it's something that is giving me more life right now is my mom and that connection I have with her. And the sobriety that I, it's for me, obviously. but the effects of that family members and loved ones,

it's really impacted my family in a beautiful way. So I'm curious in your life, is there something giving you more life right now? That was beautiful. No, I don't know that mine's going to be as profound. I mean, for me, currently in this moment, I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of my whole running journey and what I am looking at is really like how I'm going to optimize my life.

to put more joy back into it. And I really enjoy the process of running, training for marathons. And I want to get faster. And I want to kind of like get into the best shape of my life from a just holistic approach of eating, sleeping, the whole thing. And so in this moment, that is giving me more life. Like this idea that, yes, I am 41 years old,

but I have the opportunity and ability to perform, hopefully at like a pretty high level. if I can commit to it. Hell yeah. I'll leave it with this. To those people that have reached out to you, how do you guide people? What is your approach

or anybody that is watching that might reach out? The first thing I say is like you don't know how damn proud of yourself you should be. Yeah. Like reinforce that behavior immediately. It's like having a kid.

It's like hit them right between the nose and say like, do you realize what you just did? Yeah. You wrote a stranger and confessed this about yourself. yourself or a family like take a moment and be proud and then you know then let's talk about yeah the ex I I usually say that too I'm like thank you for reaching out to me and you should be really

proud and brave yeah courageous as fuck like you're reaching out to me and but here's the next part sometimes I'm not a doctor I'm not a therapist yeah but I can share a little bit of what's worked best for me or guide you to places that might be of support yeah but I love that you feel the same way I do, which is like the amount of people that feel the connected and wanting to reach out to us and then the want to help back and give back. I never have felt better in my life because of the help I give, the service I put in. I could do a lot more. But there's something in that. When you get out of your body and help other people, you learn how lucky we are. Yep. This is awesome. Dude, congrats. Thank you, Zach. I appreciate your brother. That's it. Dude, more life. Let's go.

Wow. Thank you to Zach Clark. I love this guy. honestly he's one of my favorite people that I've met in the last I'd say five years since I got sober he believes in himself and that's something that I personally just struggle with a little bit it's self-talk that I kind of tell myself that little voice in your head and Zach really shares just so much good stuff and personal experience about his story why he believes in himself and then also he's a sober business owner and that's something I relate to big time you know building a company that I mean building company alone is stressful and challenging

and raising money, hiring employees, but he's doing this in the recovery and behavioral health field. He does so much work for people that are struggling. He even helped me a little bit, but he does a lot using his platform for good. This is literally one of my favorite people in New York that I've gotten to know over the last five years. Zach's an incredible guy. Thank you, Zach, and shout out to release recovery. Hope you guys love this. Check out more life with Carl Radke, wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, you name it. Review. Subscribe, all the things. We'll see you next time.

Cheers. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denham Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mike U.R.T.s, and recorded at Soft Bar Studios in Brooklyn, New York.

More Life is a production of Sony music entertainment. From Sony, our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Set designed by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. Special thanks to Allison Shano and Joanna Orland.

New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time. Rosen lasagna, medium power, 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play. Feel the fun with Play-Ojo. The online casino with all the latest slot and live casino games. What you win is yours to keep.

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