More Money Podcast - 032 How to Raise Money-Smart Kids - Robin Taub, Author & Financial Consultant

Episode Date: January 13, 2016

I talk with financial consultant, public speaker and author Robin Taub about her book "A Parent's Guide to Raising Money-Smart Kids" and what advice she would give to parents about teaching their kids about personal finance at any age. Long episode description: I was lucky enough to meet Robin Taub at the Canadian Personal Finance Conference in Toronto this fall, and I’m so glad I did. She spoke at the conference about how she penned and published her best-selling book A Parent’s Guide to Raising Money-Smart Kids and how she went from chartered accountant to public speaker, author and personal finance media spokesperson. Although I don’t have kids (and don’t plan on starting a family for a few years yet), raising money-smart kids is one topic I knew I needed to cover on the podcast. I think for all of us to become smarter with our money, we need to be educated about it. And the sooner we learn the fundamentals of personal finance in life, the better chance we have at becoming successful and financially stable adults. I know for a fact then when I do have kids, I don’t want money to be a taboo subject. I want us to talk about it openly so they will have all the facts before they head off to college. We talked a lot about Robin’s book in this episode, largely because she outlined how to teach your kids about money so well. She talks about what to talk about to your kids at different ages and how this personal finance education can truly empower your kids and give them confidence. Like I said at the start of this episode, I highly recommend this book to anyone who is a parent or is planning to be. You can buy the book online or check it out at your local library. Shownotes: jessicamoorhouse.com/32 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Episode 32 of the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Thank you so much for joining me on this wonderful Wednesday day. And thank you so much to those of you who have left me some really cool iTunes reviews. I read them over the holiday break and they really, really made my holiday. And because you're awesome and left me a review, I'm going to give you guys or girls a special shout out at the end of this episode. So make sure to check out the whole episode, or if you want, you just skip to the end whenever and do what you got to do. But I'm going to give a shout out to you. And if you want to get a shout out on a future episode,

make sure to leave me an iTunes review. I am very excited to introduce my next guest. I actually met her this past fall at the Canadian Personal Finance Conference. Her name is Robin Tobe. She's a financial consultant, a public speaker, and she's also the author of the book, A Parent's Guide to Raising Money Smart Kids. Part of the reason I really want to have her on the show because I thought that would be such a great topic to talk about, raising kids, teaching them about personal finance, something that I don't think we all necessarily think about when we think about having a family, but super, super important. So without further ado, here's the show. Thank you, Robin, for joining me on the show today. I really appreciate it. Welcome. Very excited to be here.

Great. It was so nice meeting you and listening to you speak at the Canadian Personal Finance Conference this year. And so I'm super excited that you're on the show because I am super interested because you are an expert when it comes to finance, but also specifically personal finance in terms of family and kids, which is something that I haven't really, I don't have kids, so I haven't really thought too much about in my life. But I think that's your book, A Parent's Guide to Raising Money Smart Kids, is something that I just kind of skimmed through before just looking at lots of the chapters. I'm like, I think everyone should read this book. Yeah, I do too, actually. Yeah.

Yeah, I really wish kind of my parents had something like this. And I definitely know I'm going to take some lessons like this when I do eventually plan to start a family. I'm still in the planning to start a family, not far off from now. But you have some really great tips. But before we kind of jump into that, I want to get a little bit of an idea of who you are. How did you get started in the finance world? So I went to university in Toronto and I did my BCom at U of T. And right after I graduated, I went into what at the time, what was the CA program. So the chartered accountancy program. And I always liked numbers, analysis, finance, that kind of stuff. And I like

the idea of getting a professional designation. So I went to work for one of the big firms at the time, which was KPMG. And I spent a number of years in public accounting. I ended up working as a specialist in income tax but when I decided that that wasn't where I wanted my career to go, I left public accounting and worked at one of the clients I had worked on as an in-house VP finance and administration. So, I did that for a little while and then I worked on the trading floor at Citibank Canada in structured finance, which was derivatives marketing and sales. And so I had a lot of different experiences professionally. And I have two children myself and my kids are now in university. They're 18 and 20. and because I was an accountant and a finance person, I always felt really comfortable in the area of money

and talking to them about money and teaching them about money. But a lot of parents don't feel that way. Even if they feel like they don't have the knowledge or the time or they're not good at it themselves. So long story short, CPA Canada, which is the governing body for accountants in this country, they decided that they wanted to do something to help Canadians become more financially literate. And a lot of organizations felt that financial literacy was important, especially after the financial crisis in 2008. You know, they just wanted Canadians to have the knowledge, skills, and confidence

to make responsible financial decisions throughout their lives, and a lot of Canadians didn't feel well-equipped to do that. So CPA Canada did some research, and what they found was that 78% of parents surveyed had tried to teach their kids about money. And of those, two thirds didn't feel that they had been particularly successful. And more than half didn't even know what information they needed. So they decided they wanted to focus their first financial literacy efforts on children or on parents and helping parents teach their kids. So they approached me about

writing this guide to help parents teach their kids about money. And again, because I had kids myself and I was working in financial literacy, you know, I had a couple of clients that I was creating content for and I felt that this was an interesting project. And even though I had a couple of clients that I was creating content for, and I felt that this was an interesting project. And even though I had never written a book before and had never really thought about writing a book, it sounded like a great challenge. And it sounded like a very worthwhile project, as I said, because so many parents needed help with this. And this was an area where I felt really comfortable myself. Absolutely. And what I really like about this book in particular is, I mean, there's a lot of finance books out there and I've read a ton of them, but this is, it's very simple. It's, you

know, this is what you do. And I like that you break it down by age. So it's not just kind of a blanket. If you have kids, this is what you should talk to them about. Because, you know, kids at different stages in their lives when they're, you know, a young child or a preteen or a teenager, there's different things that you need to teach them. So I was thinking maybe we can kind of start off with, you know, what kind of tips or advice you would give parents or people that are thinking about eventually starting a family when dealing with younger kids? Because that's something that, you know, even me, I'm like, huh, do you, money wasn't really a concept in my brain when I was very young. I had a little idea about it just from, you know, getting, you know, a little bit

of money for my birthday or whatever and buying some candy, but that's kind of it. So what kind of things would you teach someone in kind of that age range? So the young kid, I mean, as you mentioned, the book is divided into four, well, there's five chapters. The first chapter really focuses on parents and how important it is for them to be good financial role models for their kids. And the best way to be a good financial role model is to try and get your own financial house in order so you can lead by example. So that's really how I set the stage. And then I do focus a chapter for each age category, starting with young kids, five to eight sort of, then preteens, teens and young adults. So the age category that you just asked me about,

the young kids, really with them, I mean, with all stages, you want to make sure the information you're sharing is age appropriate and relevant and relatable for them. So at this age, you know, they're really, they're quite young. Some may have expressed an interest in money. They may start asking questions. They may actually start asking for things, especially if they've started going to, you know, preschool or daycare and they're around kids, other kids with stuff that might spark an interest. But at this age, you want to make it fun. So I, you know, I tell parents that they can play counting games with coins and bills because in Canada,

our money's actually kind of cool. Yeah's a little different, especially it's colorful. Now, the paper money is not even like paper. It's that cool polymer and it's clear in places. It is really cool when you think about it. Then even the coins, like the loonies and the toonies are interesting and all the different things on the other coins, like the quarters and nickels and dimes, are really cool. So you can start with just playing, you know, counting games and making change and that. And then another thing I like to do is to point out things that your kids can relate to at that age, like an apple or a banana or a cupcake or an ice cream, and talk about how much those things cost relative to one another. And then, like, how many of these types of coins would it take to buy that? So they get a feel for, you know, what value you get for money and relative value.

But always in terms that they can relate to and that are from their own world. I like that. I think it's also really just a great idea to be so open about money kind of right away and not wait until they're a teenager to like okay now we're going to talk about money because sometimes yes you know it's a bit harder to get into that um at that age or even i mean i know people my age that are just starting to get into it and it's it's not easier the later you start well that's the whole idea is to start early um and lay this foundation because the concepts are pretty much the same.

It's just the context changes as you get older and your kids mature. But really, you're talking about with money, first you have to earn it and then you have choices. You can either save, spend, donate or invest. And pretty much that stays the same throughout your life in a way. But the way that actually looks and manifests is different for a five-year-old or an eight-year-old than it is for a teenager or even a university student. So that's really how I try to structure the book. So within each of those chapters for the ages of kids, I tackle those five key topics, earn, save, spend, donate, and invest. And with, you know, even little kids, you think, you know, they're not really earning money, but they do seem to, you know, they get money from, it could be birthday gifts or holiday gifts, or it could

be the tooth fairy or even allowance, which we can talk about a little bit. So like as soon as they have some money of their own, then it's a good time to talk about a little bit. So like as soon as they have some money of their own, then it's a good time to talk about those different choices. And one tool that I like to share with, to tell parents about is this multi-slotted piggy bank that I have seen. And it's just like a regular looking piggy bank, but instead of one big compartment, it has four compartments and, you know, for save, spend, share and invest. And it just makes those choices very tangible at that age. That's actually a really smart idea. I've never heard of something like that.

I like that idea. Yeah, I wish I had created it. Believe me, it's great. You can buy them at Mastermind. Every time I speak to parents, I bought one and I bring it with. And it's like a bright red clear piggy bank. And the first question when I take questions is always, where can I get that piggy bank?

So you can get it at Mastermind. And it's a great gift. Like it's a really cool little tool. Yeah. Okay, so we kind of covered young kids for the next group. Is that the preteens? Yeah, so preteens would be kind of like 9 to 12-ish. And so at that point, they're not really earning.

They're earning a bit more as, you know, compared to being a young child. Maybe odd jobs or, you know, like snow shoveling, dog walking, babysitting type of jobs. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I know for myself, yeah, when I was a preteen, that was kind of my first experience with money and even babysitting. Like I remember taking the babysitting course and being really thinking of it like, oh, I'm starting a business kind of thing and you have to figure out your

rates and what are you going to do with the money? It's kind of an interesting thing. And it was something that I kind of just... Great intro. Mm-hmm. Exactly. It's a great intro. I always... Yeah. Babysitting is the best, I think, for preteens. So what do you kind of focus more on for that age range? Is it more, you know, okay, you know, still using piggy banks, like at that stage, you know, you're probably going to go to the bank and open up a youth account. And, you know, that's a special type of bank account for young savers, where, you know, they can earn a little bit of interest on their deposits, but there's also no fees on those accounts. And they get the debit card. So that can be a really exciting kind of rite of passage for like an older preteen.

And it teaches them about what the bank does and what it has to offer versus keeping your money at home in a piggy bank. So you can talk about security and safety and the convenience of using a debit card and those types of things can be teachable moments at that age. But also at this age, they are sort of getting out in the world a little bit on their own, especially a 12 year old, maybe grade seven. They might go out for lunch once a week. They're spending more time with their friends and stuff. So it's, you know, this is the stage where it's

important for them to have some money of their own so they understand like when they're spending, what it feels like to spend money. You know, it's really easy to spend other people's money, but when it's your own, whether you've received it through an allowance or through, you know, earning it, it's still a lot harder to spend when you've worked hard for it. So that is, that is a, you know, critical stage where they're out doing more things. You know, this is a time too, where they're probably exposed to a lot of media and advertising. And, you know, they may be experiencing peer pressure. So you want to sort of help them become media savvy, and also sort of help them put things in perspective as to the difference between needs and wants. No, that's a good point you bring up because I just like had a flashback to me as a preteen and starting to, you know, be at school

and middle school and see that, you know, people started wearing different types of clothes and you kind of like, oh, you know, there's, I remember like back when I was in middle school, which is, you know, a while ago, obviously, but you know, the, the in a jean was a flared jeans and, uh, and everyone's like, oh, you know, I remember talking to my mom, like I need flared jeans. They're the cool jeans to have. And mom's like, no, they're a trend. They're going to go away. And they didn't, they lasted like 15 years. Your mom called that one wrong. Yeah, she did. But you know, that's when you kind of just start recognizing, huh, okay. And you also start recognizing some of your peers, your friends have a bit more money than you or you have more money

than them. And there's that whole kind of thing going on too. Yeah. So I think you're right. I think in middle school is when that really starts so I think the whole needs versus wants conversation is really really crucial so you know needs being the must-haves for survival like food and shelter and you know nutritious food and then wants being the nice to have so you know going out with your friends or going out to eat or you know fashionable clothes or like you said the latest sort out to eat or, you know, fashionable clothes, or like you said, the latest sort of trendy jeans. But, you know, kids have sometimes have trouble distinguishing between the two needs and wants. And a lot of it is because of media, which tries to convince us that our wants are really our needs. And, you know, it's even confusing for us as parents or adults.

Yeah, absolutely. Right? We're living in like an instant gratification world. So it's really important for kids, even kids that age to learn to set goals, because setting goals teaches delayed gratification. So even if it's like a really, you know, something really attainable um like a small goal at first some kind of a savings goal to work towards is really an important lesson to teach at that at that stage absolutely no i think that's good so um we'll hop on over to teenagerhood because there's also after that uh there's some topics in your book that you talked about and you mentioned it earlier, allowance that I really want to get into. But so when you're a teenager, I feel like this is, you know, you're almost an adult and you're almost like, you know, remember being a teenager.

I'm like, oh, why am I not old enough? I want to, you know, be an adult. You feel like you're almost ready for that kind of next step and you might have a job. That's when I started working when I was 15. And then I also started thinking about post-secondary education because I had to pay my own way through school. So I had to really start. I took money way more seriously than I'm sure most teenagers did. But it's also, I think... What was your teenage job?

Oh, gosh, I had several. My first job was a seasonal job during wintertime at The Gap. Yeah. first job was a seasonal job during wintertime at The Gap. And the second job after that, I worked at A&W for two years as a cashier. Yeah, those are pretty typical teenage jobs. Yeah, typical jobs. But I will say, honestly, anyone who works in fast food, you learn a lot of really handy skills. That was probably one of the most stressful jobs I've ever had. I'm sure. You do learn a. Like those jobs are really like life skills jobs. Oh, wow. For sure. Yeah. But it did ultimately help me pay for, you know, my first year of university. So, and I started learning how to budget and save just because I kind of had to

out of necessity because otherwise I didn't really know. I never read a book about anything like that. I just kind of figured it out. Yeah. So you brought up the first point, which is like this is the stage where you're getting your first real job. So before, you might have had these odd jobs. But now, at 16, you can usually get hired. And most kids end up working restaurants, retail, the kinds of things that you described. Yep. So that hasn't changed a lot. So one of the things you want to talk to

your kids about at that stage when they're working is their paycheck because, you know, their gross pay, their hourly wage or salary may not be the same as what they take home because there's deductions for, you know, taxes and things like that, a pension plan and employment insurance. So it's good to make sure that they understand that because that stuff can be very confusing. And also, at that age, you're not making a lot. So, really, you shouldn't be taxable and you should try to make sure your employer doesn't take taxes off. That way, you'll just, you know, at least you won't have to wait to get that money back when you file your tax return. You know, you can get it up front. So that's important. And then, as you said, that's sort of where you really begin to understand kind of how hard it is to make money. And when you have a goal like going to university,

which can cost if you're going out of town and living away like $20,000 a year, including tuition, you know, that's a lot of money to make and you really do have to sort of start putting yourself on a budget because it's so easy to spend you know so easy yeah because this is even like you're you know you're now you're teenage years you're in high school you're more social you're going out more than you were in middle school you're doing more things and everything seems to cost more so it's uh it's really important to start learning how to budget at that stage and keep track of your spending. Yes, which I don't think I ever did.

Keep track of my spending. I don't think that was something I learned until I was living on my own. I really wish I did it earlier. And maybe there weren't as many tools back then as there are now that make it a little easier. Yeah, and you bring up a great point. There are so many awesome tools out there, whether it's an app or a website or just resources out there. And it's so easy. You could just Google it and you'll figure it out. Whereas, I mean, I don't know. I don't remember

Googling when I was a teenager. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know exactly how old you are, but I for sure didn't. But now there are like lots of, as you say, apps that make it much, let's just take a lot of the drudgery out of keeping track of your spending, especially if you're using like electronic debit and credit cards. It's really easy to track, but it's only, you know, it's only by tracking that you really know where your money's going. And that's kind of the first step to having a budget is kind of knowing where you're actually spending money now. So, you know, even teenagers, like if they're living at home, they're not going

to be having a highly complicated budget. Like it's pretty simple, you know, just a few line items. But, you know, those things are pretty key to keep an eye on and control over, especially as you mentioned, if you are saving up for post-secondary education. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. Another thing that just kind of crossed my mind was when I was in high school, I had a job and I think I've always been pretty open about the topic of personal finance.

I think that was just something that always really interested me. But lots of my peers weren't and never really talked about money. And they just, they also thought it was kind of a taboo subject. Do you think this is something that, you know, how would you approach this? I think it is. If you're like a teenager, I think you're still, yeah, you don't really talk about, talk about money openly anyway. Yeah. I mean, I think, well, amongst teenagers, that's interesting. I would have to sort of ask around the teenagers that I know, but I think more like amongst parents and kids, it can be taboo that parents are a little bit uncomfortable

talking about this with their kids because they think that they're going to get these questions that they don't want to answer, like, are we rich? Or how much is our mortgage? Or how much money do you make, mom? So, you know, and then if, you know, if you feel like you're not doing well personally with the way you're managing your money, it's something you probably don't want to talk about.

You want to avoid talking about. So it becomes taboo. Or if your family is wealthy or, you know, is well off and has means, it can be taboo as well because some parents don't want their kids to know how much money they have and they don't want, you know, want to sort of, you know, dilute their ambition or their drive and stuff. So, it can be taboo like for so many reasons but unfortunately, that's not really good for the kids because studies have shown that parents who are most successful teaching their kids about money talk about it with them. So you really should try not to avoid it. And again,

like peer to peer, again, like you said, it could be a little awkward if you're not in the scene. Because you also don't want to offend the other party. Yeah. Like if you do have more money than your friends or you have less, those little things, they can become kind of barriers and they can become awkward. But I think that there's so much like that you can learn from your friends and the way, you know, either things that they do well with money or the way that are things they don't do well, the mistakes they make. So it's always good, I find, if you can share from people going through what you're going through. I find there's always so much learning there, but I don't know how open kids feel about that now. Yeah. Well, hopefully they'll just, you know, discover some awesome personal finance blogs and they'll find like people that

are open to talking about money. And that's kind of a first step, you know? And I think too, like when they're a little older, like I mentioned, mine are both in university. They both are renting apartments and with, with roommates. And I think that they have to be fairly open about their finances because, you know, you want to make sure the person you're living with, you know, isn't going to stiff you with the bill or the rent or something. And, you know, you sort of have to make, you have to communicate openly about what you're spending on things that you're sharing. Like if you are sharing groceries or, you know, if you're splitting utilities, like you kind of have to be a little transparent in that situation. So that's a time where I think kids are talking about money and what, you know,

what their budgets are and if their parents are helping, how much help they're getting, how much they're doing on their own. I think they know. That's my impression from talking to the kids and their friends. Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. Okay. So let's jump into some of kind of my favorite topics from your book. So let's, yeah, let's first talk about allowance. Cause that's something I've always been kind of conflicted about. Like I, I just kind of grew up thinking it wasn't something that was a good thing. And it's probably because I was always a bit, well, I never got one obviously. And I was always a bit jealous of people who did. And whenever I talked to my, you know, when I was younger a bit, well, I never got one, obviously. And I was always a bit jealous of people who did. And whenever I talked to my, you know, when I was younger and asked my parents, like,

oh, why don't I get an allowance? But, you know, my friend down the road does. They'd say, oh, well, you know, we just expect you to help around the house to help the family. And we're not going to pay you for that. Right. But we do provide, you know, all of your necessities. And there you go. And it's true.

I never, you know, went without. But I always kind of like, well, but still it would be nice. But, you know, growing up, you know, after that, when I kind of think in terms of like, if, you know, me and my husband eventually have family, I'm like, will we have, you know, given allowance to our children? I'm still not sure whether it's a good idea because I think I'm afraid that I'd spoil them, I guess. Well, you raise a whole bunch of issues which make this topic a little bit controversial, so to speak. So like some families do, you know, give their kids an allowance and some of them do tie it to chores and they do want their kids to sort of earn their allowance and understand what that feels like.

And then there's families like yours that say that chores should be done out of a sense of family responsibility. And I kind of agree with that. I feel like, you know, it's a lot of work to run a household and everyone should contribute, right? It shouldn't fall on one person. So, but I also think that kids need to experience handling money managing money spending it saving all those things and and sometimes you know you can't always just count on gifts and you know yeah like you sort of need some kind of steady flow to be able to make those choices that we talked about earlier save spend etc so I feel like an allowance really is a great money management tool. It doesn't have to be a lot and you can still leave open the door to your kids doing extra paid chores for money, whether for you or for neighbors, if you want them to earn it. But I really think if

you don't give them some little bit of an allowance, then either you're just paying for them on their behalf and then they never really learn because again, they're spending someone else's money. Like at least if you give it to them, they'll feel more of a sense of accountability to the money. So I feel like you're just depriving yourselves and them of an opportunity to really learn and make mistakes when the stakes are low and it doesn't really count if you make a big, like if you make a mistake when you're 12, you know, how big a mistake is it going to be, right? Yeah.

So what, sorry, I was just curious, when it comes to an allowance, when's a good age to introduce that to a child? You can start at like five or eight, even with young kids. And, you know, a rule of thumb is you could pay them anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar per week per year of age. So, you know, your five-year-old could get $5 or $2.50 a week or every other week, whatever you feel is appropriate and in line with, you know, your family's means and your budget, you know, in general. And you could give them, you know, just let's say if it's just $2.50 every other week, at least they're going to have some money and they can put a little bit into saving and a little bit towards spending, you know, because at that age, anything they want

to buy isn't going to be terribly expensive. So it can add up. And, you know, it's once they get older that the allowance really needs to be based on a budget and what they're actually spending. And when, you know, say you, I'm kind of just like, okay, what if I have a kid and then, you know, we introduce the allowance. And then at a certain point, we're like, we don't want to do this anymore as parents. I feel like you almost can't do that unless, you know, it's like, well, you're old enough, you're a teenager, you have your own job. So that's how you're going to make your money. Is that kind of a transition period? I think so. Because I mean, I think at that point you really do have to sit

down with your kids because some parents will kind of cut them off once they're old enough to work and say like, you know, you're on your own. Um, I mean, most of the parents I talked to are still give, you know, they are sort of making sure their kids aren't going without. But there's the difference again between needs and wants. So I think at that stage, if your kid, if they have a lot of demands and want a lot of things, I think sometimes parents just say, you know what, I'm giving you this, and that's it. And anything beyond that, you're going to have to work for that. Okay. Another topic I wanted to discuss was matching savings, which is something I don't think I really heard too much about. and let's say they're a little bit older, like, you know, 13 or 14 and they have some kind of a little job and a little bit of allowance and it's something

that's really important to them. So you might say to them, you know, if the iPod, I don't even know how much they are now, but let's say it's a hundred dollars, you know, if you can come up with $50, then, you know, we would be prepared to match that $50 with another 50 to help you come up with $50, then, you know, we would be prepared to match that $50 with another $50 to help you come up with the money you need for your goal. So, it's just like the way in, you know, in the workplace that a lot of employees offer matching programs for savings or for RSP and that kind of thing. So, it's just that opportunity to take advantage of kind of free money. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Like, it's hard to turn, that opportunity to take advantage of kind of free money. Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, like it's hard to turn, you know, nobody wants to turn down free money and it's just a good way. If your kid's having trouble, you know, making it happen, that might just be the thing that pushes them to save. Yeah, no, I think that's a really, you know, interesting tactic to motivate. Another thing that was mentioned in your book was something called SMART goals. So I thought it's an acronym, obviously. But so what are SMART goals?

So SMART goals are specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time-framed. And I didn't make this up. This is a framework that's out there. I've heard it in a lot of different contexts, but it can certainly be applied to financial goals. So the idea is, you know, if you're going to set a goal, kind of make it as, you know, a SMART goal. So as specific, measurable, achievable, realistic,

and time-framed as you can so that, you know, you increase your chances of succeeding and reaching your goal. And in my book, I have some, you know, an example for like a kid. It could be something like, let's say a high school kid saving up for a trip to Europe europe or you know somewhere traveling around after they graduate and like specifically they're going to need three thousand dollars by this you know the beginning of the summer and then their action plan would be to go online and research the cost of the trip and figure out you know how much they can make if they work whatever job they're working like you know what would it take how many hours how many weeks or whatever to to make that three thousand dollars and you know again it forces

you to say to look and see if you have enough time to achieve that goal when you want to and um you know and then who who can help you with that like who can you enlist to help you reach your goals so maybe you need to sit down talk to your parents. Maybe there's like other ways to cut the budget, for example, like, you know, Airbnb now, there's so many different ways to travel that are less expensive. So just like being creative about that. And, you know, if you're finding that, that the goal is maybe not so realistic, you know, trying to find ways to make it more so. Yeah. And I think that's a great thing that if you teach your kids early, that's something they can apply throughout their lives. Cause you know, I'm just thinking, you know, when you're an adult,

you're going to have like a wedding. How are you going to afford that? That's a big goal. And you're going to have to, you're going to have a date for that or buying a house. So I think that's a great way that you can set them up. Introduce it early. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. So the last topic I wanted to talk about because this is something I'm pretty passionate about is paying for post-secondary education. Again, this is something that I really want to go to university because

both my parents never got their bachelor's degrees. And so they made it, you know, known that it was very important to them, but also for us, that we, me and my two sisters went to university and had, you know, that opportunity that they didn't have. And so, you know, we all, you know, I graduated, so did my older sister and my younger sister has one year left. And yeah, so which is great. And I love that experience. But in order to do it, you know, because we didn't come from a, you know, super wealthy household, and they didn't start an RESP for us when we were younger, I did have to work and save up and get some scholarships and kind of pay it that way. Did you go out of town or did you stay?

No. So because of that, I kind of had limited choices also with universities. I mean, I still went to a good university. I went to Simon Fraser University in Vancouver. But because I was going to still live at home and then just take the bus up to school, that was kind of the only university I could go to because it was the closest one. So there's limitations, but also I learned a lot in that process. And it felt kind of good to not have, I didn't have any student loans.

So there's lots of positives, but I always kind of think, and I talk to my husband about this all the time, when we have kids, I like the idea that our kids will be responsible for paying a portion of their, you know, post-secondary education, but I also definitely want to do the RSP and help them out a little bit as well. So it's not so stressful. Or so they have more options or more options. Exactly. I feel like, you know, it would have been kind of cool to have the opportunity to maybe go to a school on the east coast or something like that yeah I mean I think

it's such a trade-off because um I you know because you did it one way you sort of went like it's always you always have the curiosity but what it would have been like different you know how it would have been different had you maybe lived out of town but I think the fact that like and you know probably how hard it was just to have the money for tuition and books and living expenses if you had to rent an apartment and everything on top of that. The debt that you probably would have had to take on because that's a lot of money to make in a summer or even if you're working during the year. It's pretty hard. So I think the tradeoff is that you graduated with no debt and some people are coming out of university. I forget what the average is.

It's in the twenties, like 20 something thousand in Canada. And that's, that's hard to pay off. Like you're starting off your working life and you're already in the hole. And you may not find a job right away. Cause you know, for me,

I graduated during the recession, so it took me a while to find that first job. Right. And imagine if you, and I think as soon, if you had student loans, as soon as you finish school, you have to start paying them back or interest starts to, you know, it starts to kick in. So I think that you made a really good point and made a good choice, but you make a good point

too. Like if you, if you want your kids to have the opportunity to have a different experience, what can you do today to, or when you have kids to help them and i think the resp the registered education savings plan is is a great um choice and tool because as you know um not only is the money you put in there growing tax free but the government is going to match um 20 of your contributions up to $500 a year. So that's like free money. Yeah, it's free money. Yeah, we were talking about matching it before. This is another example, but it's time for the government.

Free money, a 20% return essentially. And also when the money comes out, any of that grant money or the income is taxed in the student's hand and the student's not really taxable usually because of all these other tax breaks they get so it's just such a good you know if you can afford to save for your child's education it's doing it with an RESP really is the way to go and it does give them so many more options you know when if they do decide to go to post-secondary. And because, you know, I think it's just going to get more and more expensive.

Well, and that's part of the reason. It was relatively affordable when I went to school, but it was when my older sister, and she's only three years older than me, when she was in university, it was way more affordable. And then I went to school and she's like, oh, wow, how much are you paying? Wow, I certainly didn't pay that in my first year.

I'm like, oh my gosh. And it's just climbed and she's like, oh, wow, how much are you paying? Wow, I certainly didn't pay that in my first year. I'm like, oh, my gosh. And it's just climbed and climbed ever since. So I'm kind of afraid to know how expensive university is going to be. I know, and depending also on the program because just a BA, like a general liberal arts BA is a lot less expensive than, let's say, if you are in one of the business schools, like even as an undergrad, for example. So it's expensive. And sometimes you can't avoid, you know,

like if you do decide that's the program you want and it's only offered certain places and you do have to go out of town, like, you know, it is an investment in your future. And I'm not saying it's not worth it, but you really need a plan for how you're going to pay that off. And is one of the things that you think is also important is not only just figuring out who's going to pay for school, but also deciding what program makes sense.

And I think that's something that I kind of learned the hard way. I don't regret my degree, but I did get a degree in filmmaking and I'm definitely not a filmmaker. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay. Yeah, just, you know, really showing your kids that, you know, you can do what you want, but maybe look into, you know, really show them the lifestyle that they will get

based on the program that they choose. I almost wish the schools sort of did that, but then it would be discouraging because, you know, but yeah, I agree. I mean, I think some with universities, some of the programs and the courses are much more practical than others. Some, you know, are professional, you know, for example, you go into nursing and there, you know, walk out with like a very actionable career right away. Some of them are less practical, but you are certainly learning and gaining skills and critical thinking and all kinds of growth and maturity happens in university. So it's not like just such a simple calculation of cost and benefit. But I do agree that I think you are making investments. So it behooves you to look at what are the careers where there's growth and opportunities, you know, and what's forecast.

And there's lots of information about that kind of stuff out there. You know, what the hot careers are and where, you know, where people are, the sectors where people are really hiring and then the ones where there's a big decline. And I think, yeah, like if you don't have a safety net with family, you know, money or cushion of any sort, then you really have to be practical in your choices, but you still have to work within your strengths, what your interests are. You can't just force yourself to do something that, you know, that's not, you're not suited to or don't like just for the money. That's not going to be sustainable either. So find something that you're passionate about that also pays well. Yeah, exactly. You need that perfect alignment that there's a market for,

you know, that you love, that you're good at, and that there's a market for. Totally. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Robyn. I had a blast talking to you. It was a blast. Me too. Thank you for having me. I know. It's like, oh, wow, we're already here. I know. Yeah. So thank you so you for asking. I know. It's like, oh, wow. We're already here. I know. Yeah. So thank you so much for joining me. Welcome. And thank you for listening to episode 32.

Make sure to check out the show notes at jessicamorehouse.com slash 32. And if you haven't already, check out my new website. I redesigned it over the holiday break and I'm pretty proud of it. jessicamorehouse.com. All right. Now for those iTunes shout outs. The first one is from Guziki and they say, this podcast is a great resource for Canadian specific personal finance. I'm finding out about so many new authors and bloggers that are enriching my

life. The interviews are easy and fun to listen to. Keep it up. Well, thank you so much. Next one is from SJTheGreat one. Awesome podcast. Jessica does an amazing job getting new and exciting topics each week. I look forward to each episode. They keep my company, keep me company on my long drives for work. Awesome. Love to hear that. I got another one from Aretha. Fun to listen to. Worth being on a list to listen to at work. Good advice and shared experiences. Haven't heard anything groundbreaking, but still a thumbs up. Well, you can't win them all, can you? The next one is from Julia Schroeder. Today was the first episode of Jess's podcast I've listened to live. I binge listened to the first 24 in about a week and a half. It's an absolutely

fantastic, totally relatable podcast. I loved listening to Jess's conversations about money, life, and other things, and I'm looking forward to hearing more from her and her awesome guests. Damn, Julia. Thanks. And one last one to wrap it up from Allison Lee 03. You have to subscribe. Following Jessica's financial advice has helped me achieve huge financial goals in my life.

So excited for a podcast now. Every episode is awesome, informative, interesting, entertaining, and inspiring. Can't wait for more. Well, I'm just going to go float on my ego cloud right now, feeling pretty damn good. Thank you so much for leaving me these reviews. It really means a ton for me. And I hope you, if you out there have not given me a review, I would really appreciate it. I just want to know what you think, what you want to hear more of, less of. If there's any guests that you'd love for me to try to get on the show, you let me know. Otherwise, feel free to email me or tweet me. All that info is in the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 32. On that note, see you next Wednesday.

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