More Money Podcast - 075 Listener Series - How Jessica Paid Off $40,000 in Debt in 3 Years as an Artist

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to Episode 75 of the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and welcome to another listener series episode, this one featuring another Jessica. I mean, that's bound to happen. My name's like the most popular name in existence. Thanks, Mom. So I am going to be talking to Jessica Wachorn, who is a listener, but she, I found out, is also a podcaster. And so her story, we'll obviously find out when I get to the interview, but she is an artist. She went to an art school, and now she also has an art podcast. It's called the Art Pro Podcast, and you can find out more info about that at artpropodcast.com and also on iTunes. But yeah, we talk about her kind of learning about personal finance the hard way and trying to make it as an artist in, you know, tough circumstances, tough times.

Starting point is 00:00:56 So we're going to get to all of that right now. Thanks, Jessica, for joining me, Jessica, on the Mo Money Podcast. I love talking to other Jessicas. I feel like we just kind of have a special bond, even though we don't know each other. We have the same name, so we basically know each other. I love that too. And where are you from or where do you currently live? I actually also live in Toronto. Do you? Yes. That's fun. How do you like it? Are you from here originally?

Starting point is 00:01:27 I'm not from here originally. I'm from a small town outside of Ottawa. And then I lived in Montreal for five or six years and then came here. And I've been here for maybe almost five years now. Okay. Yeah, that's a while. Making the rounds. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:42 Very cool. I still haven't been to Ottawa yet. It's on my list list but it's also like not high up on the list there's lots of other places that are a little bit more tropical i'd rather go to that's right go in the summer though if you go i know that's what everyone says but i thought it'd be kind of cool to go in the winter when like that river's frozen you can skate on the river oh yeah but and i wanted to go past winter, but it never froze. Yeah, winter has gotten really weird lately.

Starting point is 00:02:08 Yeah, global warming. It's been weird for my entire life. Yeah, it's getting weird. It's super, super weird. Anyways, enough about all of that. I can get off track a little bit, can't I? Thank you for writing into me and I'm so glad we can chat

Starting point is 00:02:22 because I actually, you know, obviously I really identify with your story and people will understand why soon, but basically I love your story because it is very relatable. I feel like so many people listening could be like, yes, I totally get it because you know, your situation is you went to art school and that's kind of where you thought your career was going to go. And then you realize it's not as easy as you thought it would be to find a job in that industry. And of course, you racked up some debt and things happen. That's life. I mean, that is probably the majority of people that go to university thinking that, oh, yes, I'm going to get a philosophy degree and get a job right after. And then they realize, oh, there aren't any philosopher jobs out there. No, they're not. And you just don't

Starting point is 00:03:04 know that when you're 16 and you're signing up. You don't. And your parents don't necessarily know just because things have changed so much in the past. I mean, since they were in school like 20 or 30 years ago or whatever. So you are kind of just going to school a bit blindly. And also like when you're, yeah, 16, 17 and have to start figuring out what school you want to go to, what program you want to do, you don't know what you want to do. I mean, especially as millennials. I mean, we still don't know what, you know, we kind of, you know, flip flop between careers and jobs like crazy. So it's hard to kind of pick the right path, you know, that leads to, you know, easier times when you graduate so you can find a good paying job sooner rather than later. Um, but so what is your story? So where did you go to school and

Starting point is 00:03:51 what did you study? I went to school, I went to art school in Montreal and I studied studio art. So drawing, painting. Um, and I felt like I was lucky because I knew that that's what I wanted to do, which is at the time, like seems great compared to everyone else. He's like, Oh God, I don't know. That's true. It's like, I know what my passion is. At least I've got that. And that is like, that is a big deal. Yeah. I was like, this is my thing. I'm good at it. I honestly didn't think I would be able to go to university cause I didn't know anything about it and it just seemed expensive. But my parents were like, Oh, you want to go to university because I didn't know anything about it and it just seemed expensive but my parents were like oh you want to go to university that's great news we'll help you figure it out somehow which was so nice of them um because I also like going to art school I think a

Starting point is 00:04:35 lot of people's parents are like what no choose something more yeah you have to be a doctor like you're the best but they didn't know so and I also went to an arts high school so it really seemed like a totally normal thing to do to go and study art in university there was like no one around telling me like are you sure that's a good idea yeah wow um and I mean I really I really enjoyed my time there and I feel like I learned a lot. But I realized I was racking up quite a lot of student debt while I was there. And in maybe like my second or third year, I decided to make it a double major because I thought, oh, it's good to have like another thing to fall back on. And what were your majors? Well, the thing that I chose as a second major was political geography, which it turns out is also not a thing you can get a job doing.

Starting point is 00:05:27 I'm like, what is that? So, again, really interesting. Really liked studying it. But I ended up going to school for five years, full time year round. So full time in the summers as well. Oh, wow. And by the time I graduated, I owed $40,000, which is quite a lot because I had like never even had a full time job. And I was like, oh, how am I going to pay this?

Starting point is 00:05:53 Yeah. Like when you, yeah, have no money, that seems like all like a lifetime of money. You're like, how am I ever going to pay that off? Yeah. I mean, I never felt like I was bad with money or sort of stupid about money. I think I'm kind of like a natural saver. I'm like naturally kind of frugal, which is helpful. But yeah, that's a lot of money. And honestly, like you can't even really fully conceive of that amount of money. Totally. So was that mainly just like your living expenses, like your rent and like buying food?

Starting point is 00:06:29 Because you obviously like lived in Montreal. You can like live with your parents while going to school. And then I guess tuition? Yeah, exactly. Like you very well could have lived fairly frugally. But it's not like I lived in expensive apartments or had a car or – like I was living pretty cheaply. I was probably living on $1,000 a month or less. Yeah, that is cheaply.

Starting point is 00:06:54 But still like over five years, it adds up a lot I guess. And when I got out, the first bill I got, they wanted me to pay $900 a month, which I had only been living off of like a thousand bucks a month. And I was like, oh my God, there's no way. There's no way. Yeah. I know when I read that in your email, I'm like, that does seem like a lot of money. Yeah. Right off the bat, you're like, wait, you won $900?

Starting point is 00:07:20 I just finished school and I don't have a job yet. It was bad. Wow. So I ended up moving to Toronto in the hopes of getting a better, higher-paying full-time job, which kind of worked, I guess. Yeah, that's why I moved here. There are more options. There's a lot more opportunity, I'd say, than lots of the other cities in Canada. And I know Montreal can be good, but also, I don't know. I feel like there is more job scarcity there a little bit.

Starting point is 00:07:57 My French is not very good. That was the main. Okay. That also probably doesn't help. That did not help me there. I really liked it there though. But yeah, I was also feeling pretty depressed when I graduated because I realized even though I had been selling a bit of my art while I was in school and getting into a few shows here and there, I realized once I graduated that I just had no idea what to do to actually make making art into a career like it is possible to do because certainly there are people who make a living as artists who at least scrape by and there are also clearly people who make a very good living as artists yeah but I personally had no idea how to become one of those people and I just I got very discouraged very quickly I really started to feel like it wasn't in my control and that it was all up to other people to see my work and pass judgment as to whether I was good enough or not and I started to hate everything I made and then I just stopped making work and I got a job in a restaurant and I still couldn't, you know,

Starting point is 00:09:09 I still barely was making enough to start paying my student loans. And I tried to defer them and I tried to get my monthly payment reduced, but they kept losing my paperwork and I kept resending it and they kept losing it. And I was like, oh, I give up. Giving up was like a big part of my life at that time. Well, I can see that's like, it's so hard to deal with it. And I'm assuming from what you're saying, there was never a part of your program or curriculum that was like, all right, so now that we've taught you how to make art, this is how to make a living off of making art. Probably not. Not really really yeah and you know I do think that that's a big problem in a lot of art schools but I also partly take the blame myself but I just

Starting point is 00:09:55 didn't like realize at the time what I I didn't know what I didn't know like in hindsight if I could go back now I would think okay, it's really important to like have personal relationships with my professors. And if I could intern as like an assistant to another artist, I could see how it all works behind the scenes. But at the time, like none of that occurred to me. I just was, you know, going to class every day, trying to do my work, trying to be a good student, hoping that that was enough, which it's not. Yeah. I totally get you because when you're in that school-university bubble, you're more focused on just finishing your project, studying for tests or whatever, and finishing everything on time and doing it well and getting good grades. But you've been in school your whole life,

Starting point is 00:10:43 especially if you didn't take a break between high school and university. And so that's all, you know, you don't know how to find a job, especially if you've never worked before. And I think that's a huge issue, especially, I think that's a big component to why lots of millennials have a hard time managing their money because they don't really start doing that until they graduate university. And they're in their like early to mid twenties. And then you're like, Oh, what's going on? And then that's when, you know, decisions are made and the mistakes are made. And it's, it's really unfortunate. And I was telling you before you hit the record button, I totally had the same experience. Like I went to film school and it wasn't until like literally a couple months before graduation. I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa,

Starting point is 00:11:20 professor. Like, how do I actually get a job being a filmmaker? And there wasn't much they could do. They're like, well, you can do a master's. That is literally what they told me. I'm like, but that's not a job. That's just delaying, like, life. That's just going to do more school and getting in debt more. And I don't know what I thought. I don't know if I thought that there was going to be, like, application where they were like we want to see your art degree to prove that you're

Starting point is 00:11:48 qualified to do this job that doesn't exist no they don't care I don't know what I thought but somehow I just thought like well like surely there's something and I'll figure it out when I get there yeah and then I got there, oh, no, I don't know. And like, did you ever talk to like, like maybe your teachers or parents or just like people that are older than you and they'd always like their kind of way of making you feel better was like, it's okay. It'll all work out or you'll figure it out. I got that a lot. And I'm like, but that does not help me.

Starting point is 00:12:21 Like I got that all the time. And you know, I kind of believed it too because like growing up, a lot of the people, the adults that I knew didn't, you know, they weren't like, this one's a doctor and this one's a fireman, you know, like people have jobs that are like, oh, I didn't even know that was a job. So I just kind of figured like, there will be something like that, that I don't even know exists and then I'll find it and do it. And then everything will work out. Yeah. Because like, yeah, clearly everyone else seems to have like made, like figured this out somewhere along the line. They found something that they're good at doing and they were able to get hired to do. And of course, so that is what happens, but it's

Starting point is 00:12:56 not, it doesn't, it's all sunshine and roses the way you hope it will be. Exactly. They just don't talk about like what they did to make those things happen. They didn't just like opportunity to just like land in their email inbox. Yeah. It's being like, I have a job for you. It's like they probably went out and asked, you know, like they probably did some work to get to that point, which, you know, they didn't really fail to mention, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So what did you do? Well, I just didn't pay it for a little while and I went to collections and that was bad. Um, and then I finally like found a really good deal on an apartment. And by then I was maybe, maybe making like $12 an hour. So I was like, Oh, I should be able to start paying this now. I less rent I make a tiny bit more money this is great um so I was really just paying like and like I say I was in collections so I sort of called

Starting point is 00:13:50 them and was like hey will you take this much money and they were like great that's better than the zero dollars you're getting before so that was kind of an improvement but um I and I just kind of paid like just whatever I had, you know, like 500 bucks here, 200 bucks here. Um, and then somewhere along the line in August, 2014, I found somehow, uh, Jacob Fisker's book, early retirement extreme. And I think i kind of hated my job at the time so i think the idea of retiring really early was really appealed yeah that sounds nice it actually still kind of does really appeal uh yeah totally yeah um but but that book totally changed my outlook um because in that like even though he sort of tells his story, but even though he had a much better job than I did, he was living on much less than I was making, even though I wasn't making a lot.

Starting point is 00:14:50 And that's when I really thought like, oh, like, you know, not spending all your money is a thing that you can do, even if you hardly make any money. And at a certain point, I'm sure that that's no longer true. But, you know, I was making at least $20,000 a year. So yeah, it's, it seemed possible. And I, so I started tracking my spending to figure out where all my money was going. Um, I didn't have a credit card or anything, so I wasn't going further into debt, but I, but I wasn't like money wasn't piling up in my account. I wasn't having like as much, I wasn't having $900 a month to put on my student loan. Um, and yeah, I realized

Starting point is 00:15:33 I was spending money on a lot, like a lot of stuff that didn't make any sense. Like what kind of thing? It's not like I was going out on a shopping spree all the time and, you know, buying clothes or, yeah, nothing like that. But I was in the habit of buying groceries all the time, even though I worked at a restaurant and I worked a lot of hours. So all those groceries were just going bad in my fridge. And I realized I was buying a lot, spending a lot of money at like the dollar store and the pharmacy and like just going out whenever I wasn't working to like run errands that I didn't need to run. And that was taking up a huge amount of my money. I was also, you know, eating out too much and drinking at bars too much. You're young. Yeah, I totally get that.

Starting point is 00:16:31 It's hard to – and I'm glad that you figured out tracking your spending is like the way to kind of get out of that cycle because that's most of the reason people are like, ah, I make this much and I don't know why I'm not saving anything. It's like it's because you're wasting on the things that you literally don't even think about. That's – yeah. I always tell people to track their spending because it's not – it wasn't even hard after that. Like once I saw where my money was going and like added it up by category, it was like, no. I don't want to do that. That doesn't – you know, like, no, it gets embarrassing. You're like, I don't want a dollar store every month is clearly not adding to my life joy.

Starting point is 00:17:12 Exactly. Exactly. Um, yeah. Plus, yeah, that was the main thing. I already had like a good cheap rent. So some of those big things were taken care of. So for me, it was a lot of like wasting my money like $5 at a time. And I just had to like stop going to those kinds of places and stop doing that. I actually still eat out. I still drink at bars. I bought a bike, a $100 bike, which saves me like $140 a month. Yep. Just from that one change, I saved like over a thousand dollars a year. So

Starting point is 00:17:45 that's awesome. That was like a good quick thing that I was like, whoa, I just made this one change and I already, I'm going to pay off a thousand extra dollars in my student loan this year. That's great. Um, that's awesome. Yeah. So things like that were really good. And I cut my spending down to 50% of what I was making and started putting all the rest on my student loan. That's amazing. Yeah. That's what you wrote to me. And I'm like, that's amazing. Because I feel like a lot of people forget, they don't think they can save such a high percentage of their income when they don't feel like they're making that big of an income. But I mean, you're a testament that yes, I can. And when I first moved out of my parents' place and had my first job, my salary was

Starting point is 00:18:28 $30,000. And it, and yeah, I, you know, was living in the city and it was not cheap, but I met and I had like $200 in the bank. Cause I think I spent all my money on my Mac book and cause I needed a laptop to live. Cause it was my whole entertainment system. Yeah. Um, but basically, yeah, I just kind of worked from the ground up. And in that first year, I think I saved eight or $10,000.

Starting point is 00:18:51 That's awesome. Um, yeah. And it's like, and I still have the budget to prove it. Like it's a real, it happened. And just looking back, it's like, well, it's, I really just didn't spend that much money. And, and it wasn't so much that it was going without, but it was just like, I didn't spend money on stuff I didn't need. I bought the things that I needed and that was it. It was fine. And it was kind of nice because it was very simple. It was very simple living and I didn't have too much clutter. I didn't have stuff.

Starting point is 00:19:16 And it was fine because I could focus on the things that were really important to me. Yeah. I really enjoyed that too. I went through almost everything in my apartment and I got rid of so much stuff. And that really helped me to not buy more things. Because it's like, I don't want any of this stuff. And every time I go to a store and think about buying something, I just think about like, am I going to have to go through all my things to throw this out again later? Like, am I just buying this to make myself feel better right now? Or do I actually want to need this thing? So that was super helpful as well. Absolutely. Yeah. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings.

Starting point is 00:20:02 Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. And so what's your debt at right now? Because you were able to actually pay down quite a bit of it. It's gone. Your debt is gone? It's gone, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. How long did it take you from, I guess, graduation day to having it all paid off by? Well, because I didn't really start paying it right away, I start counting from when I paid it. So it took a little less than three years in total to pay it off. Three years to pay off $40,000. And most of that was at the end.

Starting point is 00:20:34 Because like I was saying, when I started paying it, it was like a few hundred bucks here, a few hundred bucks there. But yeah, at some points I was paying more than a thousand bucks a month on it which really helps to start the ball rolling and I should say also shortly after I like kind of had this revelation that I didn't want to be paying this off forever. I realized I was paying like $4 a day in interest on it when I first calculated it. And I also realized the faster I paid it off, the less I would have to pay in total. So that was really motivating because especially at the beginning, I really felt resentful about the debt. I kind of felt like embarrassed about it because I felt like I made bad decisions

Starting point is 00:21:32 to get that debt in the first place. And I also kind of felt like I'd been tricked, you know, I did all the things that people tell you you should do. You know, I felt like I was on the straight and narrow path. And then suddenly, I was like, just marooned with this $40,000 debt. So frankly, I was like, kind of angry about it. And I was like, I do not want to pay $1 more than I absolutely have to. Yeah. But yeah, luckily, shortly after I had that realization, my dad gave me $5,000 of money that he inherited after my grandmother died to put towards it, which was really nice. That helped. Thanks, dad. Yeah. I also decided that as part of getting my financial shit together, can I spare here? Sorry.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Yeah, you just did. It's fine. No, I'm just joking. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah. I also realized I should do my taxes because I hadn't done taxes in four years. What? I know. It was like a disaster. And I was really scared to do them because I thought, oh my God, what if I owe more money than I already owe? Yeah. And I thought, no, I'm a responsible person now. I'm going to do them. And if I owe money, than I already owe. Yeah. And I thought, no, I'm a responsible person now. I'm going to do them. And if I owe money, at least it won't be accruing interest any longer than it has to. And I'll just deal with it. But I ended up getting like $9,000 back.

Starting point is 00:22:56 What? See, taxes does, doing your taxes does pay. Yes. On that day, my opinion about taxes turned from scary to like the most exciting thing you could possibly you like look forward to tax season every year now right i was so happy when i was getting back i was like this because that's sped the whole thing up by oh my god yeah yeah wow um and i really felt like i can't do anything with my life until I get this paid off because it just felt like how can I save up to go back to school or, you know, save up to buy a house or start any kind of career or go traveling or anything if I have this obligation to be paying this every month. So yeah, anyway, that really helped. And I paid the whole thing off in June or July of 2015. Oh, nice. So you've been debt free for over a year now.

Starting point is 00:23:53 Yep. Yeah, it was good. I threw myself a little party. Yeah, you did. Kept trying to keep my spending low, which was great because now I just get to watch that money pile up in my bank account. Exactly. So what have you been doing since then to make sure, A, you don't get back into debt and B, to really ramp up your savings because you haven't really had that time to do that until now? Well, I'm still tracking my spending. I've tried a few different ways of sort of managing my money every month. But what I do is I just sort of I know what my big payments and things are every month. And so I have of put the money for that in there off each check. And before I do that, before I do anything, I take the check and I divide it by 50% and I move that 50% of the whole thing into my savings account. Paying yourself first.

Starting point is 00:25:01 And then what's left is what I can afford to spend. And if it's more than I think I need to spend, then I even shovel a little more into my savings. Nice. And yeah, but I think part of what really motivates me too is just looking at my bank account and being like, right. Doesn't it feel so good getting richer? Great feeling. And you know what? It's not even so much about getting richer as feeling like I actually have options now. Because yeah, there was a time when I really felt like I can't do anything and I'm trapped in this job that I don't like. And paying that off really changed my outlook on a lot of things. Once I started to feel like I was in control of my life again while I was paying it off, I realized that I didn't hate my job. And once I finally paid it off, I finally started making art again. And I feel so much less negative about that entire experience now that it's over, which maybe in hindsight totally makes sense.

Starting point is 00:26:02 Totally. That's awesome. Yeah, it's been makes sense. Totally. That's awesome. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. So you also let me know that you have your own podcast, which I think is so awesome, because it focuses specifically on other artists and how they make a living and how they, you know, basically go from art school to artist in the real world, which I think is so great, because I would like to know how, you know, like, I didn't do that. I was kind of a chicken and, and went to totally different round, just found a desk job after film school. But it's like something I always kind of wonder, like, how do these artists and it's like,

Starting point is 00:26:39 there should be an art is so important. I feel like a lot of people don't put, you know, realize how important art is for our lives, our culture. I mean, without art, we'd just be looking at our computers and just like nothing would be beautiful. But that's a whole other conversation. like art art in in one way and also kind of um you know shining a light on how you can actually make a living or at least some sort of income off um making art yeah i'm really hoping that i'll be able to help someone else who's in the same position that i was so that they don't just feel like they have to give up. Yeah. Absolutely. Because for a lot of people, it's part of how you define yourself. And it's very unpleasant, let's say, to have to question that and wonder, is this the thing for me?

Starting point is 00:27:40 Maybe I'm just not good enough. I think a lot of the time, obviously, like, you know, hard work and having skills is a huge part of it. But I think that if people sort of knew what they could really do to try to make a living from their art or see how it's really done by people who actually do it, it at least kind of levels the playing field. Yeah. And so yeah, that's really important to me. And I'm really enjoying doing it. It's super interesting and fun. That's awesome. So if anyone was interested in finding out your art, so what kind of art do you specifically do? Is it painting or photography? I've done a lot of different things. I do a lot of painting and drawing still. And like I say, I didn't do

Starting point is 00:28:23 any for a long time and now I'm just sort of slowly getting back into it and trying to feel out what exactly is the work that I want to make and what do I want it to be like and what do I want to do with it? So right now I'm still in that sort of exploring phase. Um, but it, it honestly just, I'm so glad that I'm doing anything instead of just looking at my sketchbooks and feeling sad. Exactly. It's a big step in the right direction, at least.

Starting point is 00:28:51 Yeah. Well, I'm hoping that, you know, maybe by the time this episode airs or just in the near future or whatever, you'll maybe have a, I don't know, a way for people to find your art and maybe they can contribute to, you know, helping you make an income from your art. Cause I mean, at least I know for me, and I know this is, you know, just be a little silly, but it's like, I moved into a place and all the bare, the walls are bare and I need art. And it's kind of heartbreaking to like, look on like, you know, home furniture, you you know stores and try to find art there because you're like ah but it's not like true art you know it's just a print or it's just like a silly saying you know so it's like i think that's so important to have real art that's made by you

Starting point is 00:29:36 know current artists from you know local artists so you know you let me know when you're ready to sell some stuff and i'll take i'll see if you or maybe I can commission a self portrait. Okay, great. Yeah. Maybe not, maybe not, maybe not a self portrait. That might be a bit much. Yeah. That's awesome. It is. It's important. And sometimes it's hard to put your finger on, you know, why is art important? Like, is this really a thing people need to do but if you just ask yourself like would you prefer a world with or without art it suddenly becomes like clear again and i just have to remind myself of that i know and i don't think people realize how much art is involved in their day-to-day lives you know like sometimes you just don't even notice or you know like because it's

Starting point is 00:30:20 like sure if you go to an art gallery you that's one thing but it's like art is kind of all around you there's lots of different types of art and i don't know like i'm a you know total artsy fartsy type of person my dad is an amazing um artist and he can draw and paint like nobody's business and um yeah something that's always been yeah really close to my heart like i know i've never been like a very good i've always wanted to be really good at painting heart. Like I know I've never been like a very good, I've always wanted to be really good at painting and drawing, but I know that's just not my strong suit, but I really have a big appreciation for people who can really, you know, do that. I think it's really important. Yeah. Everybody's got their thing and it's a struggle that everyone faces to just figure out,

Starting point is 00:30:58 you know, like how can I set my life up so that I can do the thing that I'm called to do or that I love? Exactly. You know, and whether that's becoming a doctor or becoming an artist or I don't know, whatever, it's kind of the same thing. And that's why it's so great what you're doing with the show, because personal finance is such a big part of that, like so much more than I ever could have realized without having gone through this whole experience. I know. Who knew? Like I guaranteed, well, it's similar to you. You probably,

Starting point is 00:31:34 like I didn't think coming from film school that I'd be this personal finance gal that loves to talk money all the time. And I've had my blog for almost five years, this podcast for over a year. And it's, but it's just like one of those things. It's like when you have to deal with money and you really want, you really understand the importance of understanding it through and through, yeah, it's powerful. And it affects everybody, right? Everyone has to deal with money. And hopefully more and more people can be like you and have that kind of epiphany and realize I need to take ownership of this and I need to take action. Because it sounds like you were kind of in a dark situation. And it's done a complete 360 and you're in this awesome positive space. And passionate about doing your own art again.

Starting point is 00:32:14 Yeah. I really hope that people who, anyone listening who thinks like, oh, if only I had like a real job, then I could do this. I especially hope that those people will see, you know, I'm a cook in a restaurant. It's not like a glamorous job. I don't make a lot of money. Um, but you, you can still be in control of the decisions you make with your money and you could still, you know, really do something for yourself with it. Um, yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks Jessica for chatting with me and sharing your story. It was a delight, of course, because I'm talking to another Jessica.

Starting point is 00:32:52 Yes. Thanks so much for having me on. And what was the name of your podcast in case anyone wanted to check you out? It's the Art Pro Podcast, and you can find it on iTunes or Stitcher or on my website, which is www.artpropodcast.com. Perfect. And I will, of course, link to that in the show notes. So thanks again for joining me. And I'm excited to see where your art takes you. I'm excited for you. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me on. It was great to talk to you. And that was episode 75, another episode in my listener series featuring Jessica Watchorn, who also has her own podcast called the Art Pro Podcast. You can check her out at artpropodcast.com or check it out on iTunes.

Starting point is 00:33:36 I know right now I'm going to give her an iTunes review because it's a fabulous podcast. I absolutely love what she's doing. So make sure to check out her podcast and do the same. Maybe give her a review too. It always helps. And if you are in the review mood, give me a review too. Why not? Why not? Why not? And if you want to be featured on a listener series episode, I am absolutely looking for more interviews, especially for my upcoming season and season four for 2017. So please shoot me an email, jessica at jessicamorehouse.com and we can chat. I would love to, you know, learn about you and your story and share it with other

Starting point is 00:34:11 listeners. So thank you for listening to this episode. Of course, check out the show notes for more information and you can check that out at jessicamorehouse.com slash 75. Thank you again. And I will see you back here next Wednesday. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at women in media dot network.

More Money Podcast - 075 Listener Series - How Jessica Paid Off $40,000 in Debt in 3 Years as an Artist

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