More Money Podcast - 076 How to Retire by 33 - Anita Dhake, Early Retiree & Blogger at The Power of Thrift

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to Episode 76 of the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Thank you for joining me for another episode. I'm excited to share my interview with my next guest. I actually found her, I think one day I was trying to find, you know, who should I have on the show next. So I did some internet research and it was just, I don't know, ended up Googling a bunch of stuff. And her story popped up and it sounded so crazy. I'm like, I'm going to see if I can get her on the show. And she was on a bunch of like news sites like Forbes and everything like that. And I'm talking about Anita Dake. And she also now has a blog called thepowerofthrift.com. But the story with

Starting point is 00:00:42 her was she became a lawyer and was doing her lawyer thing. But she ended up saving up enough money and just kind of changing her lifestyle. So she was able to retire at the young age, the crazy age of 33, which I'm like, oh, my gosh, I would love to be able to retire three years from now. I don't think that's going to happen, but you can dream. And but at least there's someone out there who has actually done it. And now she spends her time blogging, traveling the world, and just doing exactly what she wants to do with her life. So pretty excited to share her story because it's pretty incredible. And before we get to that interview, of course, thank you to Wealthsimple for sponsoring this episode of the Mo Money Podcast. Wealthsimple is the fastest

Starting point is 00:01:22 growing automated investing service in Canada. Wellsimple uses smart technology to help you create and manage a diversified investment portfolio, saving you time and money. And of course, since you're a Mo Money podcast listener, if you go to Wellsimple.com slash Jessica Morehouse, you get a $50 bonus when you sign up with them. So check it out. I'll put that in the show notes, JessicaMorehouse.com slash 76. Thanks, Anita, for joining me on the show today. I'll put that in the show notes, jessicamorose.com slash 76. Thanks, Anita, for joining me on the show today. I'm excited to chat. Yeah, you as well. It's actually a Sunday, isn't it? It is Sunday. Sunday fun day. I think it's the day of the week it is. So I'm always a little bit thrown off when people tell me. Yeah, I guess that's one of the things with

Starting point is 00:01:59 being an early retiree every day is kind of a Sunday or Saturday. So you have an incredible story. So I would love to kind of get to know a bit more about you and go kind of from the beginning. So I mean, you know, first off, you were able to retire at 33, which is incredible. And I think that's kind of a dream that most people fantasize about when they're working their nine to five. They're like, I really wish I could retire early. But let's kind of a dream that most people fantasize about when they're working their nine to five. They're like, I really wish I could retire early. But let's kind of go back to the beginning. Were you like in order to kind of achieve that, you have to be pretty good with your money. Were you always, you know, fairly conscious of how you spend and save and stuff like that?

Starting point is 00:02:37 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I buy whatever I want. I just don't want that much. I think that's the biggest thing. That's handy that you don't like shopping. I also do not like shopping. They don't like stuff. You know, I'm kind of petite, so it's really hard for me to find clothes. So I never enjoyed clothes shopping. And luckily, both of my older sisters are, you know, just a little bit taller than I am and about the same size. So I use a lot of their hand-me-downs and

Starting point is 00:03:04 they're both clothes horses. So it's always worked out well for me. Yeah, I lot of their hand-me-downs and they're both closed horses. So it's always worked out well for me. Yeah. I always got the hand-me-downs and I still, to this day, every time I buy a pair of pants, I have to get them hemmed because I'm too short. Yeah. Yeah. That's no fun. I know how to do it myself too. Oh, that's a good idea. Really competent. Yeah. No, that's something I should probably do because it gets really irritating when you're like, oh, I have to spend another $10 on these $20 jeans to get them hemmed. That's awesome. So at what point when you were growing up that you decided that you wanted to pursue a career in law? Not really until my sister started studying for the LSATs. And I don't know if you're familiar with the LSATs, but they have a section called the logic games, which I just liked a lot. I thought they were really fun.

Starting point is 00:03:51 I thought they were games and not like a test. So I used my sister's book and I took every logic game test I could because I thought they were fun. My sister was like, well, I don't think I'm going to pursue law after all. And I was working insurance at that time and I was bored and I hated it and I was looking for something else to do. So I took the test. Just for kicks and giggles. Yeah, I do. You took that for fun.

Starting point is 00:04:16 I mean, I wanted a way out. So I thought, OK, this is, you know, a lot of games are fun. You know, maybe this will be my way out. So I took it and I did pretty well. And I kept getting all these applications from schools saying, hey, if you want to apply, you don't have to pay anything. It'll be free for you to apply. And that kind of like spoke to my thrifty heart. So I applied to all these places for kicks and giggles.

Starting point is 00:04:37 And then, you know, I went, I got in, I went to law school and the best kind of history. But it was not premeditated really at all beyond, you know, a few months before. Oh, wow. That's pretty awesome where you're just, you know, kind of had a knack for it and then you got to go to school for free, which is amazing. And yeah, I totally hear you. You're like, yeah, okay. Oh, no. Let me apply for free. Oh, okay. Well, still free is free.

Starting point is 00:05:02 Yeah, I still had about $100,000 in student loans when I graduated. So that's not great. Fair enough. With the application, so. I know, that's how they get you, the little coupon. So how long did you work as a lawyer for? Five years. So I started in October 2010, and I quit in October 2015. So just about five years.

Starting point is 00:05:29 Oh, wow. So you're kind of recent into this early retirement thing. Yeah, it hasn't even been a year yet. But it's been everything I dreamed of and more. That's good to hear. So what made you want to cause it seems like you could have had a very fruitful and successful career in the law if you wanted to, but you didn't seem to want to after a couple of years, what kind of sparked this idea of, you know, I'll just work a few years, save up some money and then retire. Um, so I read the book, your money or your life when I was a teenager and it really spoke to me.

Starting point is 00:06:02 And I think that's part of where my thrifty values came from. And then I read it again when I started working and I kind of plotted my way using that. I thought the work was interesting and I'm really glad that I did it, but it definitely did not speak to me. And, you know, there are times where I'd be in my office at 2 a.m. and just miserable because, you know, who wants to be in an office at 2am? It just, that was not the life that I wanted for myself. And, you know, I knew how much I needed. I knew how much my enough was. And as soon as I got that, I gleefully quit. And, you know, I've been living the life that I feel like I'm meant to live. So. So how did you figure out what the dollar amount you needed to be able to say goodbye to your job?

Starting point is 00:06:49 Well, there's a lot of information out there about like, oh, historically, the stock market has returned such and such. And, you know, a lot of studies that, oh, if you take out this percentage of money, theoretically, you should be fine. You know, your nest egg will grow when inflation and all that stuff. Like, I'm really bad about explaining it in person, but so it's called the 4% rule. It's pretty common. So, um, I, I just based it off of that and the book, your money or your life had, um, a neat little wall chart that appealed to my sensibilities. And, um, so I've just been plotting my expenses for, you know, five, six years that I've been plotting my expenses for you know five six years that i've

Starting point is 00:07:25 been you know plotting my my projected passive income which is based on the four percent rule um and as soon as my projected passive income was greater than my expenses you know theoretically i don't have to work again so so you're just kind of living off of the income you're making from your investment yeah exactly that's. So do you feel like, I mean, it seems like you've got a pretty good plan and understanding of how you will continue to make money off your money, essentially. Do you feel like there will ever be a time where you may have to go back to work or you may want to go back to work? I'll definitely go back to work at some point, just because I have a life bucket list, you know, I've had since I was a kid.

Starting point is 00:08:03 And on that was, you know, retire early. So I finished that. But I also want to work in a factory at some point, just because I think it would give me an appreciation for the people who like make my clothes and make everything. I think when you experience stuff like that, it kind of makes you appreciate your life a little bit more. So I want to work in a factory, I want to start a business at some point, I want to start a nonprofit at some point. I mean, I'm only 33. So there's a lot left on the bucket list to do. And, you know, I'm sure at some point, one of those endeavors will make me some money. I also really want to write a book at some point. Hopefully, that'll be, you know, something. Definitely. Well, I'm sure you have quite a bit to already write about at this point. And one of the things you did was you also traveled once you kind of quit your job, right?

Starting point is 00:08:49 Yeah. I mean, I've been a travel buff for as long as I can remember. Before law school, I was actually a flight attendant and I, you know, traveled the world for, you know, six months before I decided to like buckle down and actually go to law school. And, you know, I've taken international trips, you know, once or twice a year. And after law school, I took a year off and I traveled for a year before I started working as a lawyer. So, I mean, travel has always been in my blood and I just on my life bucket list is see the world. So I had this map and I just really like coloring in new countries that I've visited. I actually really want to get one of those maps where it's,

Starting point is 00:09:26 you have to like, it's kind of like a scratch off thing. And so you can just take like a quarter and scratch off the countries you've been to. I really want to get that for my apartment. I've heard of that. Yeah. That sounds awesome. I just use one online, but that's. Oh, okay. That's smart. Or I used to have friends where they used to travel a lot and they'd always put pins on the map for all the cities they've been to.

Starting point is 00:09:47 And I feel like that's almost a bit like, I mean, there's no way you're ever going to visit all the cities. But every country you could probably at least, you know, make a pretty good dent into. I find it very satisfying to see the colors of the countries. Exactly. Yeah. You're like, I've been there, been there. So, you know, you haven't even, you know, been kind of retired early for a year. So do you have anything on the bucket list that you hope to accomplish before the first year is over? So one of my bucket list items that I've been trying to work on forever has been learn to cook like my mom. I'm from India, so my mom makes, you know, amazing, delicious indian food from scratch you know pretty much

Starting point is 00:10:26 every dish you can think of and so i've been trying to learn that and i'm putting putting all those recipes on on my website the trouble is i'm just not home often enough i don't know my parents often enough to you know to do it but i really would like to to finish that or sooner rather than later but i I don't know. I have an insatiable wanderlust. So anytime I'm home for a little while, I'm kind of itching to go. And I'm sure also once you kind of cross something off your bucket list, you think of something new to add to it. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:10:59 It's constantly evolving. The other one I think is I really wanted to be a writer when I was a kid. So Be a writer was kind of on my life bucket list. And I've been writing, you know, almost every day for two hours a day since last September on my blog. So hopefully by the time my 34th birthday rolls around, I can cross that one off my list and I can feel like I'm a writer. Absolutely. Yeah. I want to talk about your blog, The Power of Thrift, which I went through, which I really like because it's, you know, it's very, you know, it really kind of shows who you are. It's not just about personal finance and kind of your journey, but you also talk about you have recipes on there. And you also kind of talk about some other things like just the, you know, mental health and things that I think, you know, when it comes to personal finance, it's not just about money. It's a whole kind of lifestyle thing. So I really appreciate that you

Starting point is 00:11:49 wrote about kind of your experiences with that. Yeah, I mean, the blog has definitely evolved. I mean, I actually started it, you know, when I was first doing my charts like years ago. So it's been like four years since I started it, but I neglected it for about three years. Um, where I only wrote like maybe once a month or so. Um, but it first started out as people, I'm very open about my retirement plans, you know, even when I was working and people would be like, how in the world can you do that? I just got tired of explaining my chart and my numbers and all that stuff. So I started a blog and I was like, if you really care, here's my blog. I write about it. I'm much more eloquent in, in writing than I am in person. you really care, here's my blog. I write about it. I'm much more eloquent in writing than I am in person. So if you care, here it is. You can read it. And then

Starting point is 00:12:29 it kind of evolved from there to be because I wanted to be a writer. And then it was a good place to put the recipes on. And I don't really want to be a personal finance blogger just because I think there are millions of them out there and they're much better than I am. And I don't really have anything else to add to that conversation. But I think there are other things that I can talk about that could help people. So that's kind of what it's been now. I just write about whatever notion flips through my brain. Absolutely. But I remember reading one of your posts and it was about kind of some of the things that you go through like mentally or mostly after you do something as, you know, big as retiring, because lots of people, I think they have this idea in their

Starting point is 00:13:09 hands of what early retirement is. It's like, oh, finally, I could do whatever I want. But it's, you know, there's lots of things to consider. It's, you know, we, especially if you've been working, you know, for many years, once you kind of stop doing that, and you have a completely different life that you've never done before, and not working. I mean, most people started working when they're in their teenage years to not have that can kind of be like, you can have a little bit of an identity crisis. I've definitely gone through that when I've had little bouts of unemployment, you're like, whoa, who am I? What's my purpose? And, you know, am I anyone, you know, when people like meet you, there's like, oh, what do you do? They never ask you, who are you? Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, when people like meet you, there's like, oh, what do you do? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:46 They never ask you, who are you? Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I don't know how to quite answer that question anymore. Like people ask me, you know, you meet people, it's kind of like the default first question. Oh, what do you do? And it's like, well.

Starting point is 00:13:56 Exactly. I'm more than that. Yeah. It's like, or even where, you know, where are you from or where do you live? It's like, oh, I don't know. It's a complicated story. So it's kind of hard to say. I think I might just start saying I'm a writer and kind of leave it at that. I think that's a good way to be like, I'm a writer. Or you could just be like, I, you know, you can say you're an entrepreneur because you seem like you're doing a lot of different things. That's another good one. Or solopreneur is kind of a cool one to say.

Starting point is 00:14:22 Girl boss. Girl boss. I'm boss girl boss girl boss no I think that's just a really uh important thing to kind of talk about that I haven't seen really any other blogs you know really kind of talk about those aspects of things which is you know it's a really important thing to consider if you are thinking of oh you know have a date where you want to kind of completely change your life and you know maybe take a year off or a couple of years off and do what you want to do. It's like, do you actually really have a plan? Do you know what's, you know, you know, just kind of the other aspects that may affect. So yeah, no, I'm appreciative that you write about that on your blog. Yeah. I mean, I think the important thing to remember is, you know, you can kind of sleep in

Starting point is 00:15:02 and drink a lot and hang around for a while. But I think if you're the type of person who's motivated by financial independence and early retirement, you're not going to be happy wasting your life on the couch. No. It seems like you do have to have a game plan, which it seems like you do with your bucket list and all the kind of things that you want to accomplish now that you have the time to do it. Yeah, exactly. That's my one piece of advice to people who are thinking about it. It's like, you know, it sounds great to do nothing, but you can only do nothing for so long before, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:31 you get a little stir crazy. Exactly. And, yeah, I think the big thing too is, and I always kind of go back to this whenever, like, someone has a question about personal finance, it's like, okay, well that's, you know, one little problem that you're having. But at the end of the day, you've got to figure out what your goals are and what your, you know, main purpose in life is, which is kind of a big question. But it's like, if you haven't,

Starting point is 00:15:53 you know, really figured out those things, then you're going to have a really tough time figuring out how to solve some of your problems. Or, you know, if you want to retire early, it's like, well, why do you want to do that? What are you going to do with your free time? What do you want to accomplish? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So since you've gone through this whole experience, I'd love to know some of the things maybe you've learned in this past year

Starting point is 00:16:18 that you've been early retired. What are some of the things that you've experienced or have happened to you that you didn't expect? So my blog has actually gotten a lot bigger than I ever anticipated, just because, like you said, it's not really a personal finance blog anymore. It's kind of an Anita blog. And I'm not sure how interesting that is to a lot of people. But I was in Forbes recently in the Daily Mail and I was on CNN. That's huge. My life has blown up quite a bit than I thought it would. So to me, it's something that I've wanted to do for so long. And I know so many people in this community who are retired early and who are financially

Starting point is 00:16:56 independent. So to me, it's not an interesting or unique thing. So the fact that it is kind of to other people is still a little bit startling to me. But since the blog has increased, you know, traffic has increased, I mean, everywhere I travel to, I get to meet all these amazing, warm people. And it just makes me really happy that the world is full of people who are just so awesome. And, you know, I get to meet them. That is really cool that you, like, not only do you get to travel, but you get to like through your blog, through your experience and sharing your story that you get to meet other people. Like that isn't that such a cool thing. That's one of the reasons like the internet can be kind

Starting point is 00:17:32 of a gross, dark place sometimes, but it also can be like such a beautiful, uplifting place because you can really meet some inspiring people. Oh, absolutely. 100%. I mean, there's still shitty people in the world. Sorry, I'm not allowed to use that word. No, no, no. Go ahead. You know, that's a tiny minority of most people. Most people are warm and good and they just want acknowledgement that they exist and like, you know, they want friends. And I think that's a very human thing. Yeah. And especially when, you know, when you are trying to find people that are kind of going through the same thing or they're achieving something that you want to achieve, the internet and the blogosphere is a great place to find people that are like-minded that you can connect with. I mean, I, you know, started my blog almost five years ago now, and I have lots of great friends that I, you know, that are personal finance bloggers. And

Starting point is 00:18:22 the reason we're such great friends is we can nerd out and talk about like really nerdy personal finance things and blog things, which I couldn't do if I just, you know, met people through, yeah, common interests that are so important. You kind of mentioned that there's like a whole like early retirement community, which is something that I've never really been privy to because I'm not in the club. So what's, you know, like, what's, what's that all about? Like, who's, what, what do they talk about? Well, I mean, I don't know if it's just people who have retired early that I have emailed me through my blog and been like, Hey, I'm also retired. We should meet up and hang out. And then we meet up and hang out. It's like, Oh, you know, all these

Starting point is 00:18:59 people are living awesome lives. And, you know, just because they're not writing about it doesn't mean that they're not happening. Absolutely. What did they, is it kind of similar to your circumstance where they kind of have, you know, they're retired, but they still have kind of a plan of attack. These are the things I want to do, or maybe they just volunteer instead of work or what, what does their early retirement look like? I'm just so curious. Everyone's early retirement is different. Honestly, it's like, it's the life that you want to make. I mean, I think a lot of people do travel just because that's kind of the flavor of the month and it's fun. Honestly, it's like, it's the life that you want to make. I mean, I think a lot of people do travel just because that's kind of the, you know, flavor of the month and it's fun, you know, that kind of stuff. But, you know, people, there are people who, you know,

Starting point is 00:19:33 are, you know, married and they just stay at home and, you know, they volunteer. And, you know, I mean, it's, I'm sure you've also heard of Mr. Money Mustache. That's also the community. So I went to one of his Ecuador trips the very first time. And I also read Jim Collins' blog on investing. And J.D. Roth, Get Rich Slowly. So they were there for that first trip. So I think that's also part of the community of bloggers. That's so cool.

Starting point is 00:20:01 You just kind of meet when you're out and about. Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, you mentioned that. And that's actually how I found out about you was I was doing some searching on Google and I found your story on Forbes. How did they find out about your story? Was it through your blog? I'm guessing. I just got an email one day.

Starting point is 00:20:20 She's like, hey, I want to interview you. Your blog, I've been reading your blog and it sounds awesome and blah blah blah and so you know we just we talked a few times exchanged some emails and uh next thing I know my my my life is blown up yeah you're famous you know people keep telling me that I'm I'm I'm adamant that I'm on about my last like 15 seconds of fame so I'm perfectly happy with that. It was fun, but it's a little overwhelming. Yeah, I bet. Because it's all at once, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of good news stories. I mean, like I said, it's so fun. I went to not CNN, but it was HLN, which is Sister Network. And, you know, I got to go into their studios and they did my hair and my makeup

Starting point is 00:21:00 and, you know, got to talk to the host and she kept telling me like how awesome I am. You know, it was a super fun experience. But I think a lot of the news cycles are kind of like fill, fill the time stories, you know what I mean? It's like fluff pieces. So hopefully it's there. I don't think yours is a fluff piece though. Like I think you're pretty, pretty rocking. Okay. Before we kind of wrap up, I would love to know, you know, because you've gone through all this, what are some things that you would suggest or pieces of advice that you would give to determine how much money you need. The second thing is the less money you need, the sooner you can do it and the sooner you feel rich, the sooner you can live the life that you want to live. So everyone has vices. Everyone has stuff that they want to buy. You know, I buy an excessive amount of earrings because I really like them. But the important thing is to remember

Starting point is 00:22:05 to limit the vices and, you know, pick and choose the things that actually do bring you joy and that you're not just buying just because it's convenient or because, you know, everyone else is buying it. I mean, it's try not to keep up with the Joneses and look at yourself and understand what brings you joy and go from there. And it seems like a big aspect of early retirement is kind of putting all that material stuff, you know, on the back burner because at the end of the day, it's not important. It is most of the time a waste of money, you know. It's all about kind of really finding what you value in life and hopefully it will be relationships and experiences.

Starting point is 00:22:48 I think for most human beings, we're really bad at knowing what's going to make us happy. Yeah, we are. I think the shiny new dress is going to make us happy, but you get used to it pretty quickly. Whereas if you go on a trip, your experience is your experience alone. Whereas the dress, it's easy to compare yourself you're dressed to someone else's dress you know it's and it's human beings i think when we're less than others that makes us less happy so exactly and those were you know experiences it's like a no one could take those away from you and you like still i remember trips from years ago so those are things

Starting point is 00:23:21 that you carry on for like a lifetime which which I think is kind of priceless, if you will. Absolutely. Plus, you know, you get, you become a better, a different person through them. Like you kind of understand the world more, you understand yourself better when you're traveling. It's, I mean, I see no downside to it, but. Absolutely. I completely agree. That's, that's kind of my, most of my reason for like saving up and being so diligent with my budget and money management is so I can save up money so I can travel and have those experiences. Yeah, absolutely. I feel a little guilty when people tell me how inspiring I am because for me, I never wanted this stuff. So to me, saving was just natural and it didn't seem hard to me.

Starting point is 00:24:02 So when people tell me, oh, such an amazing accomplishment. Well, for me, it was actually pretty easy. You know, the accomplishment would be, you know, how to do a podcast interview without accidentally hanging up, you know. Never happened. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, thank you, Anita, for chatting with me and sharing your story. I'm going to maybe use that for, I'm going to look into that 4% rule and just, you know, just see what it says and see when I could retire.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Absolutely. It's about another way of looking at it mathematically is just 25 times your yearly expenses. So as long as you're tracking your expenses, take the average of that and just multiply by 25 and that's your number. Absolutely. And you mentioned that book. What was it called again? Your Money or Your Life and just multiply it by 25 and that's your number absolutely and you mentioned that book what was it called again your money or your life who's it by um vicky something you know okay i will look into it i will include it in the show notes because if you read it twice it's probably a good book to check out right you know another the uh one of the authors i want to say he never after he accepted or reached independence, I don't think he ever accepted another dime from working, which I think is really appealing. And it really says something about the power of enough. Wow.

Starting point is 00:25:13 I just found that the authors were just very inspiring, very clear thinking, very articulate. So I highly, highly recommend that book. Awesome. Great. Well, thanks again for joining me. And I'm excited to continue reading your blog and seeing how you're hopefully you do something special for your like one year anniversary of retirement. I think you should at least get yourself a cake or something. You know, I'm not I don't have a sweet tooth, but I will maybe

Starting point is 00:25:37 buy myself some earrings or something. There you go. There you go. And that was episode 76 of the Mo Money podcast with the wonderful Anita Dake and you can find out more about her what she's up to right now her journey at thepowerofthrift.com I'll include that link in the show notes make sure to go there for um we talked about a lot of resources and books and stuff that I'm going to want to check out I know you will probably want to check out so I will link to all of those in the show notes at jessicamorehouse.com slash 76. And again, thank you to Well Simple for supporting the Mo Money podcast and sponsoring this episode of the show.

Starting point is 00:26:12 Check them out. Wellsimple.com slash jessicamorehouse to get your $50 bonus when you sign up with them. If you want to get your investing on and you want to save time and money, check them out at wellsimple.com slash Jessica Morehouse. And yeah, tomorrow, of course, another wonderful listener series episode that you're not going to want to miss. So I'm going to see you back here tomorrow, aren't I? Right? Right. Okay. See you tomorrow. Tamara. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network.

Starting point is 00:26:58 Find out more at womeninmedia.network.

More Money Podcast - 076 How to Retire by 33 - Anita Dhake, Early Retiree & Blogger at The Power of Thrift

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