More Money Podcast - 091 How to Save Up to Travel the World for 6 Months - Esther Goh, Blogger at NZ Muse

Episode Date: February 15, 2017

You don't have to be rich to travel the world and buy a home in an expensive city. Esther from NZ Muse proves you just need to be smart with your money. Long description: It was such a pleasure chatting with Esther from one of my favourite personal finance blogs NZ Muse. I've been following her only her own personal finance journey for years, and I'm so glad I was able to finally chat with her one-on-one for this episode. Not only that, she's the first non-North American guest I've had on the show! This episode is all about Esther sharing how she eventually got to a place in her life where she was able to afford to leave work to travel the world for 6 months and also buy a home in the incredibly expensive city of Auckland. Esther's story isn't some crazy story either. She was able to make something most of us only daydream about a reality simply by be strategic with her career and her money. Similar to me, Esther started out working in the media/journalism business. What used to be a thriving and exciting industry is one that has devolved since Facebook and YouTube became major players. It's sad, because journalism is so important (especially with all the fake news floating around), but also like me, she eventually realized that if she wanted to grow in her career and make a decent living, she needed to change course. That's when she decided to move into more a content marketing role, and was able to save up $10,000 to for her 6-month trip. She was able to take a leave of absence for work, but she was also financially prepared to have to look for a new job after her travels. Everything worked out pretty well, because after her bucket list trip she was able to save up another big chunk of money to buy her first home. You see, nothing sensational or unattainable in her story. She just made smart choices! She saw that there was a ceiling in her industry so she switched careers to make a better living. She wanted to fulfill her dream of travelling for a long stretch of time, so she lived frugally and saved up enough cash to do it. She wanted to buy a home to have a nice roof of her head and to build some equity, so she hunkered down once again and saved up enough for a down-payment. The message here is that if she can do it, anyone can do it. You just need to work hard, make smart financial decisions, maintain focus and take action. Some of Esther's Best Posts How to break the cycle of underearning (because you're worth it) What my Asian parents taught me about money The best decision I ever made My first love was a practice run Demystifying the introvert Check Out Esther First Free Course! Great timing for me to share our podcast episode together because Esther just released a 5-day email course all about how to reclaim your money mojo! Make sure to sign up to her free email course to get out of your money rut. Follow Esther on Social Like Esther on Facebook Follow Esther on Twitter Check Out Esther on Pinterest For more podcast episodes, check out the podcast page. Show notes: jessicamoorhouse.com/91 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, and welcome to Episode 91 of the Mo Money Podcast. I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Thank you so much for joining me for another fabulous Wednesday episode. I am so excited to share this interview with you because it's been a while since I've interviewed it. Back before I knew I was going to be full-time self-employed, I thought, well, if I'm going to continue doing two full-time jobs, I better get as many podcasts in the queue as possible. And so I recorded a ton in advance. And this one I think was back in the summer, which is a bit crazy because I was listening to the recording. I edited this out, but I was telling my guests that me and my husband had just bought

our place, but we hadn't revealed it to anyone. So that was a freaking while ago because we got possession back in August. Yeah. So I'm very excited to share my interview with my next guest. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about Esther, the blogger behind NZ Muse. I've been a fan of her for years. And I'm also excited because she's the first guest I've had outside of North America. She is my first New Zealand guest or guest with a fun accent, basically. And she is absolutely wonderful and just has an amazing story of basically living the life, living the dream, you know, having the career, being able to travel for six months out of the year to everywhere over the world,

and just kind of doing life right. And she also just bought a house too. So she's doing a pretty good job when it comes to her money. So I'm very excited to share my interview with her. But before I get to that interview, I just want to share something pretty cool. So I think it was about a year ago, I interviewed my friend, John Robertson. He is also the author of the book, The Value of Simple and super smart. I mean, he's a doctor. He's Dr. Robertson. He is a scientist, a writer, investor, teacher, all around nice guy. And he was so nice. He came to my apartment to record an episode all about index investing and just how to do it yourself from the ground up. And his book really goes into detail about what to do if you don't want to go with a robo advisor,

if you want to do it all by yourself, he has all the information. And he just came out with a course, which is so cool because when we had that initial talk, he's like, I have this idea for a course. I just don't really know how long it's going to take me. And he has a job as well and a family and all this stuff. And so now I am so excited to reveal that he finally has his course up and out there for the masses to enjoy. I've already checked it out. It is amazing. He really knows his stuff. So if you are interested in learning more about DIY investing, this is the course that you want to sign up to because there is literally everything you need to know about

Nix Fund investing. So if you want to learn more, get a free trial or buy the course, check it out at jessicamorehouse.com slash investing course. I'll also include a link in the show notes in case you're interested, because guess what? Investing, growing your money, that is one way, a big important way to reach your financial goals to get into that financial freedom life that you've always dreamed of. So make sure to check it out, jessicamorehouse.com slash investingcourse. And without further ado, let's get into the interview. Thanks, Esther, for joining me on the show today. I'm so excited to talk to you. Excited to be here. Yay. I don't know if you know this, but I've been a huge fan of your blog probably ever since you

started it. Because when did you start? What year did you start your blog? I think it was late 2008, which is a lifetime ago now. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. In a couple of years, it'll be like a decade. That's crazy. Oh my God. But yeah, I've been reading your blog probably since then because I, or yeah, probably since you started it. I've always been a huge fan. I just love how kind of honest and transparent you are with all of your experiences and your thoughts about money, which is really awesome. you started and I've always been a huge fan. I just love how kind of honest and transparent you are with all of your experiences and your thoughts about money, which is really awesome. And you're

also my first non-North American guest. So, yay. Yay. So, first, let's kind of dive in. I would love to know a little bit about you and how was your relationship with money growing up? Were you always very interested in it and frugal or did that kind of come later? I kind of grew up in an Asian household, so money was not a taboo topic for us, which I think was great. I couldn't really say exactly how they did it, but I suppose my parents would have just led by example. So, you know, they were frugal and they saved. And I just kind of absorbed those messages growing up. So my first job was, you know, paper round, typical kind of thing,

put that all in savings. When I started to want, you know, I wanted to buy a guitar and get a few bigger things in high school, I went out and got a job at a cafe and just saved up for that. And then it's just kind of always been my kind of way of operating. I've always had a saving mentality, and that's always just kind of been a non-negotiable for me. Exactly. And did that kind of help you, I guess, when you eventually went to university?

Did you were able to graduate debt-free? Pretty much. So I was pretty lucky. I got a scholarship that covered all my tuition. So I pretty much only had to pay for things like books and, you know, the other odd things here and there. So I feel really fortunate because student loan is a huge, huge burden for most people our age. And I feel really lucky to have escaped that otherwise I'd still be still be paying it off now most likely absolutely I know lots of my friends my age are

still like I don't think I know anyone my age in my kind of friend group who's been able to pay off all of their student debt besides all the you know debt personal finance bloggers out there that don't really count yeah I mean it's slightly different here because um you know the student loans are interest-free as long as you stay in New Zealand um they don't start really yeah until you if you uh leave the country but still you know that's thousands tens of thousands sometimes hundreds of thousands which is yeah it's a huge amount that's interesting wow and so you went to school for journalism? I did, yeah. And so I guess you always, you know, obviously from your blog, you're a very good writer.

So I guess that's kind of what drew you to that field? More or less, yeah. I mean, I've always, you know, when I was a little kid, I would write little stories and English was always kind of my top subject at school. And, you know, at the time, journalism kind of seemed like a more of a viable career path than it perhaps does now. So, yeah, a lot of things have changed in the past. Like, well, I mean, just like you, very similar. I mean, I went to film school, but my first job out of university was working for a newspaper.

And at the time, that seemed like a cool, ooh, I'm working in media. Like, it was a cool thing to do. And then you fast forward two years, it was a really scary industry to be working in. You're like, oh, get me out of here. Yeah, yeah. Again, I think I was lucky in that I got into kind of online journalism at just about the right time. So I was never working in newspapers as such. And it could have been a lot worse if I was.

Oh my gosh, yeah. But it kind of doesn't change the fact that, you know, there's still some key things about it that you don't get paid enough and you're overworked and all that kind of stuff. Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, you worked in, how long did you work in journalism for? I actually worked, I kind of worked part-time in journalism

throughout my degree, for most of my degree. And then I worked in it for about three or four years after graduating. And what made you decide to kind of switch careers and go into more of a content marketing route? Basically, I started to think, okay, what will I do next? I was kind of looking around at all the publications in the country, thinking about what kind of jobs they had available or not.

And I just kind of didn't see anything that I was burning to do. And so basically I just thought maybe it's time to do something else and make some more money and actually just have a change, both in terms of there's the professional boredom a little bit, but then there's also the practical stuff like what if I want to have a family and buy a house and all that kind of stuff. Absolutely. Yeah, so I just started looking around. I was kind of amazed at, you know,

I was seeing a lot more jobs on the, I guess, brand side that were very editorially focused, which was cool, and they all paid a lot more. So it kind of seemed like a no-brainer to give it a go. Definitely a no-brainer. I think you probably made the best choice. So you made that jump, which seems like a relatively seamless route, which is great. You didn't have to go back to school or rethink all of your experience and everything like that, which is awesome. So what I'm kind of running, cause I have a very similar experience where, you know, I was working in, uh, media, not journalism is more sales or whatever.

And then I need, I realized like, there's no where to go from this. And I kind of know also that like, I still keep in touch with all the people I used to work with and the girl who replaced me when I left, um, I mean, three years ago now, I think she's still in that role. I'm like, yeah, there really is nowhere to move or any other publications to really go to, especially in Vancouver, which is a small industry anyway. So I had to go back to school and then I eventually jumped ship and now work in marketing just like you. And I completely agree that it was a good decision. And also, I know you wrote on your blog that you were able to basically double your salary. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, that's nice. So at what point did you, I think maybe you were

still working journalism or I'm not sure. Let me know if I'm right, but you made the choice to take a bit of like a sabbatical or a leave from work and go traveling around the world for six months. Yeah, that's right. So that was on my second job in journalism. Basically, I just had this burning travel itch um like zealand we've got a really strong culture of um you know just going overseas either doing the backpacking route or actually going and working overseas for a few years um most people go to london that's kind of been the traditional route um but that didn't really interest me london's cool i've been there now and I like it, but it's just never really held a big draw for me. So I was kind of like, I really want to get out of here.

And there's so many places I want to go and see. How am I going to do it all? I kind of mapped out, you know, what would it take if I did just one big trip every couple of years? And I was like, this is a horrifying amount, horrifying in terms of many. And also my job at the time, I was like, oh, I don't know if I could swing that much time away just because of the nature of my job. And I was like, started to read, you know, different travel blogs

and I learned a bit more about things like volunteering and started to think maybe I could actually do an extended trip if I can incorporate some of these things. So that's what I started to do. Worked out ways

that we could travel for longer just by going slower and volunteering along the way and started to come together. And in terms of funding that, you know, I just kept saving and at the same time kind of ramped up the freelancing on the side. I think I had set myself a goal of like earning 10K and I can't remember exactly a certain amount of time um and I hit that I think there's

a real power in kind of visualizing a goal like this sounds really cheesy but I had like no no I would like to see a balance of ten thousand dollars in my paypal account and eventually I got there and it was kind of it was really really cool yeah it's's exciting when you have a thought in your mind. You're like, oh, that's crazy. How am I going to be able to do that in that short amount of time? But then when you achieve it, you're like, oh, well, what else am I capable of? Right? So that's the coolest thing that you took off six months.

I need to look into that. I would love to take six months off work to go traveling. But it's just, you know, you had this idea in your head that you want to do it and you figured out a way to do it. And I think that's, I don't know, a good lesson just in terms of anything in life, whatever you want, whether it's travel or career or whatever. If you want something bad enough, there's probably a way. If there's a will, there's a way, if they say, you know. So that's awesome so where did you end up going to yeah so we spent um a couple of months in southeast asia so we started in malaysia where i'm from originally um went through thailand cambodia vietnam all amazing places oh yeah yeah we spent basically

the summer in europe which was it was life-changing Italy was sounds amazing yeah no that's on my bucket list totally how was Paris looked amazing by the way yeah well okay everyone keeps asking me like how was Paris I'm like okay in general Paris is amazing I'd love to go back but we went the worst week ever because it was the Paris floods were happening. Seriously. Yeah. So everything was flooding. It rained every single day and me and my husband got violently ill. Yeah. And there's also a lot of strikes in the city.

So kind of all of the bad things that could have happened, happened, but we still made it a really good trip. Just our luck. The one like time we take a week off during the year and we never do that. Those things happen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then we finished up with kind of a road trip across North America.

But there's so much more to see. Oh, I know. There's so much. I absolutely agree. It's funny. When I used to live in Vancouver, it seemed like kind of the only places that were sort of close to go to were on the West Coast, which is great. You know, there's Oregon, which is beautiful. There's Washington, Seattle.

There's California. Great. But when we move to Toronto, it just seems like there's more America to see just because you're a bit closer. And like there's New York, there's Chicago. There's all these great places. So, yeah, I really would love to do a road trip around the States. I mean, we did kind of do a road trip when we drove from Vancouver to Toronto, just because I mean,

Canada is very boring to do road trips. There's nothing. It's just fields. Don't do it. I, I, I mean, I,

I encourage you to come to Canada, but maybe not. I mean, there's really only a few places to go. I'd say go to Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and you're, and the Maritimes and then you're good. Yeah.

I'm really glad to say that that we managed to fit in the Pacific Northwest area because I really wanted to go to Seattle, Vancouver, that kind of area. But that'll be a future trip. Next time, next time. I actually really enjoyed Toronto. I felt very at home there.

Oh, really? It's a city that's definitely grown on me i love it now when we first moved here come coming from vancouver i thought it was like such a huge city oh really yeah but vancouver is a baby city so because you're because you're from auckland right is that a very big city um well not by world standards um it's our biggest city, but it's still only about, I think, 1.3 million.

That's a lot. That's about the same size as Toronto, I'd say. It feels tiny sometimes. You do bump into people a lot. You've only ever got about two degrees of separation. It's quite funny get groceries delivered across the gta from real canadian superstore with pc express shop online for super prices and super savings try it today and get up to 75 in pc

optimum points visit superstore.ca to get started so what so after your trip you came back did you just go back to your new job and then that's when you kind of decided to do the career switch um yeah yes I went back to my um the job I had been working at um so when I kind of made the decision to travel I decided look um if they won't um take me back that's fine I feel confident enough that I could find another job but they were lovely and gave me six months off and so that's where I went back after um and settling in actually wasn't wasn't too bad it honestly wasn't too hard to get back into things um and probably so we came back in November and I think I left that job in what if an end of April so I was probably there another six months or so

I think it was probably maybe four months or so before I started thinking about moving on and you know I did feel a little bit of guilt at the time like oh you know they were nice enough to take me back that kind of thing

and I really did enjoy my job but yeah starting to get the itch and there were a that kind of thing and I really did enjoy my job um but yeah starting to get the itch and there are a few kind of things happening both in terms of the industry and as well as at my company and I kind of took them as signs like it was time to start looking yeah it's time to go and I wasn't quite ready and then you know a job that seemed really cool came along and I was like, I'm just going to apply. And, you know, things happen. You find yourself like, shit, how do I resign? Resign is the worst.

It's just so awkward. It's not good. I mean, unless you have like the only, no, I've quit a few jobs where I'm just like, I'm just going to a better job. And it's never, it's always awkward. It's like you're breaking up with them and you're like, it's not you, it's me. Totally, totally. I know. So one of the big things that has happened in your life, which I'm so excited about, is you bought a house. I know, yes. Yay, that's so awesome. So I feel like prices are pretty high where you are. So I totally get it.

It's like one of those crazy things where it's like you dream of buying a house, but it always seems kind of elusive, but you're able to do it. Yeah. Yes. So it's been a dream of mine for ages. One that I deferred for travel because at the time travel was my top priority. But now I've kind of done a lot of my traveling. Yeah, definitely ready to settle down. Um, especially having, having traveled, um, and seeing what, you know,

standard of living was for other people to come back. Auckland rentals was just like soul destroying. Um, really like what's so bad about them? Uh, our rentals are cold and damp. Well, to be fair, some of our generally like our standard of housing is pretty crap um you know old cold damp moldy that kind of thing but it's a lot worse in rentals because obviously people don't care as much about houses they don't live in uh yeah so and also just wanted to settle down and have the stability of, you know, knowing that I don't have to move because there's a lot of instability here with rent as well.

Exactly. And also just the privacy factor. Like I guess, like I work, sorry, I live in an apartment building and I'm just sick of like the elevators, all the noise in the hallway, all the people everywhere. I just, no, I need some privacy and some space. Yeah, plus rents just keep going up here. You know, I started to think more about, like, long-term,

and I was like, I have no idea what rents are going to cost when I'm 65. That is a terrifying prospect to still be renting when I'm retired in New Zealand anyway. Yeah, so, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Started thinking about prices, which are pretty much, yeah, they're insane. So how much would a house go for in your area? So I guess to put it in your context, my area is like the equivalent of, say, Scarborough or something. Yeah.

Oh, you know Scarborough. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. So back before Auckland became one super city you know we had other quote cities and this would have been and then like next city or district over um yeah yeah so in my area um Oh, so like I would say, you know, entry level is like 500, 600 K. And I live kind of down the hill from like a newer, nice suburb. And those would be like million dollar houses up the hill. Yeah. It's quite funny.

Changes quite quickly. Good. Just going up the road. Well, hopefully that'll kind of like filter to your neighborhood and then the value of your house will go up in the next five to 10 years. Yeah, I don't doubt that. No, I absolutely agree. The stability of having a house is just so, I mean, yeah, I'm just like, you know, I told you earlier, we bought not a house because that's absolutely impossible in Toronto, but we bought a townhouse and I'm very excited just to have that stability. And you're not worried about, I mean, not that it really happens in this apartment building, but other rentals we've

had, which are usually suites and houses, you hear all the time, the landlord wants to sell the house, so you have to find a new place to live or rent is going up and you're like, oh, it'd be nice to know exactly how much we're paying for a long amount of time so we could budget that way and stuff. So that's very exciting. So how were you able to save up that chunk of change? So we've got like a government scheme for first-time buyers. There's, you know, income limits and house price limits.

And, you know, once I switched industries, I was making more, but I was still within that limit. I was like, this is the time to buy, really, because then I can take advantage of the scheme. And a key part of that was we've got KiwiSaver, which is our government scheme. It's for retirement savings, but you can also take out money for your first home.

So that's like our RRSP we've got over here, the registered retirement savings plan. Awesome. Probably the equivalent, yeah. Yeah, sounds about the same. Originally, I hadn't envisioned doing that. I was like, there's money for retirement, I'm not going to touch it.

But things have changed a lot in a few years. And I, for various reasons, decided that, you know, buying a house is going to be, um, a good thing for me in terms of saving for retirement because I won't have, um, won't be renting, which will be a big cost gone, but, um, also didn't want to live in a cold, damp rental anymore. And that was really, really important to me, to be honest. Absolutely. It looked like you wrote on your blog that it was actually affecting your health. Yeah. I've got posts in the – I'm waiting until the end of winter just to preserve judgment,

but I've got posts coming up on, honestly, the health benefits. They are real. You know what? It's funny that you say that because I used to always have like a runny nose when I used to live in this one rental in Vancouver. And we lived there for about two years. And no, I guess most of the rentals I lived in Vancouver, I'd always have like this runny nose when it wasn't. Yeah, it just made no sense. Like, well, I guess maybe that's just like I just assumed maybe that's what happens when you get older.

I don't know. I just started making excuses. I'm like, why do we always have a runny nose? And then when we moved to Toronto into a building that does not have mold and is not like gross and damp because vancouver is like always wet yeah my health immediately changed it's so crazy yeah oh well that's good to hear yeah it's really yeah it's really wet and damp and humid it rains a lot so yeah we definitely get a lot of mold um yes but yeah so i've pulled um not all of my kiwi saving money out but the majority of it um and also uh yeah so i was looking um at houses up to about 500k

um based on what i was approved for oh that's the rain can you hear that oh i can hear that oh my god is that oh my god i happening right now? It's really intense. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's winter here. Oh, right. I forgot. What does winter, like, honestly, what does winter mean there? Like, what does that mean?

I don't understand. It's pretty mild in Auckland. Like, it doesn't snow. You know, winter days are, days are in the double digits. So it's not really that bad. But yeah, I'm a wuss. I don't think I could live anywhere where it snowed. Yeah, it's not the

best. It's damn cold here. Damn cold. Yeah. Alright, to wrap up this episode, Esther, since you have been blogging since 2008, which is, I think, a record. I don't know many other bloggers that have lasted that long. I think kind of the, you know, most people won't even last six months when it comes to, I mean, blogging about personal finance for that long.

Props to you. So in all of your experiences and everything that you've written so far, can you name two key things that you would like to pass on to listeners, two things that you've learned about money management and just kind of living a fulfilled, happy personal finance life? What would you recommend to them to kind of go in your footsteps so they can maybe one day also live debt-free, buy a house, travel for six months? So often people talk about earning more versus spending less as kind of the two ways to, you know, tackle money, basically. And I think like most things in life, it's about a balance.

It's not necessarily one or the other. I think it's about maximizing that gap in between. And it could be a combination of both the earning and the spending. For me, I've always been quite frugal. And I think there's only so much that you can cut back. For me, earning more has been the biggest factor that's enabled me to get ahead so i'm a big fan of um increasing your earning potential uh as well as spending less because i suppose if you are cutting back your spending a dollar saved is a dollar earned and it's not taxed so that's that's a good thing um

another thing i think one thing that i've really learned over the past few years is just the importance of putting yourself first advocating for yourself negotiating standing up for yourself nobody else is going to do that for you um so you've got to put your own interests first um both at work and in terms of relationships it's important to know your worth um and go for it and in terms of like your personal relationships as well not to let others take advantage of you financially it might not be deliberate you might not even realize it but just don't give um too much of yourself away basically no i think that's a really you know key thing to remember for personal finance. I think a lot of people, they kind of focus on the budgeting or the saving or making more

money, but putting yourself first is absolutely something that, especially as women, I think we need to really consider because it's one thing to help someone out, but it's another thing to be taken advantage of. And we work hard for our money. We are paid less than men. So let's kind of take care of ourselves and put ourselves first. Damn straight. Yeah. Damn straight. Yes. Well, thank you, Esther, for chatting with me. It was an absolute pleasure. And that was episode 91 with the fabulous Esther from NZ Muse. Make sure to check out her website

at nzmuse.com or nzmuse.com. I never know which one's the right one to say, but Z, Z, same, same diff. So nzmuse.com is where you can find out more information about Esther and her journey into financial freedom. And she's just awesome. So make sure to check her out. And like I mentioned, and again, I'm going to include information about Esther and all the things that we talked about in the show notes. So don't forget to check out the show notes, JessicaMorales.com slash 91. But I'll also include more information and a link to my pal, John Robertson's new course, first course. It's called Practical Index Investing for Canadians. So if you want to do the DIY investing

route, you want to pay very little fees but get optimal results, you will want to check out his course. He is the author of the book Value of Simple that really goes in depth about how to do it. But he's created a course to really kind of break it down and just help you through the process and figure out how to freaking do it. Because it's sometimes a bit intimidating. You don't know where to start. This is something that if you really want to get into DIY investing, this is the course you need to check out. So you can go to JessicaMorales.com slash investing course. Or just check out the show notes, JessicaMorales.com slash 91.

I'm going to include some more info and a link to it so you can learn more about it. There's a free trial and a lot more information about it. So, you know, just thought I'd put that out there. I think you might enjoy it. So thank you again for listening. Before I let you go, I've gotten some more podcast reviews that I want to give shout outs to. Thank you so much for everyone who's given me a review so far. All right. The first review I have is from S Tweets from Canada. They say, I am a fairly new 28-year-old investor. I've been gobbling up books on the subject. The problem is that I have limited time to read these days, but I have an hour a day commute. This podcast is a great way to get informed on so many awesome investing topics that are directed specifically to what I want to learn.

Thanks so much, Jessica. Keep the podcast coming. You're helping a fellow investor learn a lot. Yay. Oh, that makes me so happy. Thank you so much for your review. I am so glad that I am educating yourself on your commute because I've been there. Believe me, it's one of the glories of being self-employed now. I don't have to do my long commute in the packed subway downtown Toronto, but I feel you. So I will keep the podcast episodes coming. And one more before I go from Motive223 from Canada. I'm so glad I was introduced to Jessica and her podcast.

I feel like I'm getting my personal finance fixed without having to bore my friends. I love it. Oh, yeah. I am so glad that you found my podcast. And yeah, thanks again for your fabulous review. Make sure if you're listening right now and you have not given me a review, but you would like to, please do. I will give you a shout out on a future episode. So make sure to just go to iTunes. And I think it's as simple as just like hitting review button. It's very, very easy. So thanks again. And I will see

you back here tomorrow because guess what? Got another listener series episode for y'all that I know you will love. See you tomorrow. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.