More Money Podcast - 094 How Saying "No" Can Save Your Finances - Sarah Li Cain, Money Storyteller at High Fiving Dollars

Episode Date: March 1, 2017

Personal finance isn't just about money. It's about emotions, habits, triggers, mindsets and relationships. I chat about this and more with money storyteller Sarah Li Cain. Long description: Personal finance isn't just about money. It's about emotions, habits, triggers, mindsets and relationships. Many of these aspects of personal finance are explored with Sarah Li Cain, author at High Fiving Dollars, in this podcast episode. Sarah, a fellow Canadian now living in the U.S. with her husband and son, isn't just another personal finance blogger. She's a money storyteller on a mission to teach others about how your actions can truly affect your finances in ways you may have never thought. Take her story for example. Throughout most of her life she was a "Yes Man." Always saying yes when asked for help and putting herself second to provide for those she loved. This doesn't sound so bad, that is until someone takes advantage of your kindness. Which was the case for one of the relationships she was in, where she found herself stuck with $9,000 in debt after the breakup. Sarah doesn't want this to be your story, and she shares more thoughtful pieces of advice in our interview. Not only that, she's developed a number of great resources to help you on your personal finance journey I've listed below. Take Sarah's Spending Triggers Course Sarah's recently created a two-week course all about the triggers that make us overspend and generally mishandle our money. If you want to learn how to curb your spending (and find out why you’re doing it in the first place), sign up to take her course. You won't be disappointed! I was lucky enough to preview her course before she officially launched it, and thought it was a really great and unique program that I knew listeners of my podcast would enjoy. Register for Sarah's spending triggers course here. Sarah's Top Blog Posts How You Can Use Money Wisely to Make Your Life Happier I Worked Hard to Declutter 90% of My Stuff – Here’s What Happened Women, It’s Time to Rise Up and Own Your Financial Prowess Helpful Resources by Sarah Cha-Ching! A Money Coloring Notebook: An Adult Coloring Notebook (Companion Book) Money Relationship Rescue: 5 Part E-Course Money Mindset Quiz Figure Out Your Spending Triggers Course Follow Sarah on Social Like Sarah on Facebook Check Out Sarah on Instagram Follow Sarah on Twitter Subscribe to Sarah on YouTube For more podcast episodes, check out the podcast page. Show notes: jessicamoorhouse.com/94 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Episode 94 of the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode. I'm excited about this episode because we are talking about money and relationships and how sometimes those relationships can really affect our financial situation. I am talking to Sarah Lee Cain. She is the money storyteller behind High Fiving Dollars. And I was lucky enough to actually meet her this past year when I was at FinCon. Man, that conference is a great way to meet so many amazing, inspirational people. And we are going to be talking about her story, which is pretty darn interesting, let me tell you. So I'm not going to kind of go into it because we go into all of that good stuff in our interview.

So I'm going to stop yabbing and we're just going to get to the interview. How's that? Okay? Okay. Okay. All right, Sarah, thank you so much for joining me on the show. I'm excited to get to know you more because you have a very interesting and broad story. Thank you for having me on. Yes. And a fellow Canadian, though you now live in the US.

Yes. Yay, Canada. So yeah, let's, I want to, let's just dig in. Let me know your story. So, because you've just, you've done so much. So where, I don't know where you want to let's just dig in let me know your story so because you've just you've done so much so where I don't know where you want to start oh my gosh I know right it's like where do you even start yeah I know well you um okay so I'll first tell about what I what I primarily do now and then yes okay then we can work back into this profession, I guess you could say. Yes. So I call myself a money storyteller. I love that. What I do is I want people to change their, help them change their money mindset so they can see themselves as a hero of their own story. And so I do that by not only weaving practical tips and strategies into my writing, into my work. I really want people to feel like they

have a personal sense of responsibility over their personal finances. Because what I've noticed is that a lot of people hand over control to institutions or people that think are quote unquote experts when they should take a lot of responsibility in their own hands so that they are good enough to handle their money. Absolutely, for sure. And that's, I think, part of the reason I'm so drawn to what you're doing. And I'm so glad we met randomly at FinCon when I was just like, I just got there, I took a little nap in my hotel room,

and then I came out and I'm like, oh, let's see who's out there. And then I bump into you and Tess Wicks. And of course, it's like, fellow Canadian, what? what yeah awesome i think we just we literally just got our badges and we we thought yeah just roam the hallways and see oh yeah that was exactly and that was cool i think i'm so glad we connected me too i know um so okay okay so i i absolutely dig what you're doing now because i feel like no one's really yeah talking about yeah kind of just you know, and you have this course that we'll talk about later, the spending triggers and all that stuff. So I think that's so powerful and so important for people to really recognize kind of like the emotional side, the mental side of managing your money because it's not all about just like, are you good at math? So, but I would love to know, like, how did you get to this place of, you know, now you're a money storyteller? How did you get to this, you know, to that position?

Well, I feel like it's by accident, but if I sort of trace back my steps, it hasn't been, it's actually led me to here. So before I even thought about money, I just graduated. This was 10 years ago. I had graduated and I had an opportunity to go to Australia to work. And I was, you know, just dating somebody at the time. And I said, well, I'm going to move to Australia. And then he said, well, I'm coming with you. And so, okay. So this was my first, you know, experience being an adult, quote unquote, and, you know, experience being an adult, quote unquote, and, you know, have my own money and living on my own and all this stuff. And then I had this relationship. And so, you know, long story short, I ended up paying for everything.

You know, I, you know, and what I realized was I was just chasing this fantasy, this ideal romantic relationship, whatever I thought that was at the time. And so I decided to move back to Canada after Australia. And I thought, you know, I'm going to be a big girl now. I'm going to go back and buy a house and have another real job and get married. And then as soon as I went back, maybe a couple of weeks later, he said, I'm breaking up with you. Oh, that's heartbreaking. And how long were you together for? That at that point, about, about a year or so. But he moved to Australia with you. Yeah, not, you know, here's not a long time. But you know, that my first year when you're young,

it feels like a long time. Yes, yes, it does. And so, you know, so that happened. And I was like, okay, you know, pretty shocked about it. And, and then I checked my credit card statement and I realized I was $9,000 in credit card debt. Oh my gosh. On top of the breakup, I had $9,000 of credit card debt. Um, I still, you know, I didn't have a place to live. So I had to basically live with my parents. Um, I had no job at that point. And so it just was, how do I get myself out of this situation? And so that's really where I learned about, you know, budgeting and paying off debt. This is my, you know, very first experience with that. You know, I went back to the restaurant where I worked in college to get, you know, to get my job back. That was a very humbling experience. And so that was really the catalyst for personal finance. And so for a while, you know, after I paid off the debt, I was at peace with the decision. And then, you know, just talking to friends with about their, you know, situations. And I would just, you know, offer my story. I was really offer, you know, the strategies that I used, the mindset, you know, that I really had to psych myself into

paying off. And I realized, you know what, maybe what I have is really valuable to share. And, you know, that was in the back of my mind for a number of years. And it wasn't until I'd say January this year, that I thought, okay, maybe I should just start a blog and see where it takes me. It has gotten me to this point. Which is awesome. Which is a great point to be at, don't you think? Wow. So what, I'm just curious, what was that $9,000 credit card debt? Was it just, you know, living, you know, life in Australia?

It was. And it was a lot of trips. So I moved there obviously because I wanted to travel around Australia and New Zealand. And of course he was in the same mindset. And so there were times when I would take a few days off work here and there, and we would go, you know, fly somewhere and just spend a few days here and there. I also quit my job early, a month early. And we drove around New Zealand for three weeks. And so I paid for, I'd say 90% of that. A lot of those groceries, a lot of those just, yeah, living expenses. And at the time, your boyfriend didn't have a job or? When he first moved there, no. And so that added to that sense

of I'm responsible for him because he moved here for me. And he did get a job, you know, but what we were both making at that, I was making more than him. And so, you know, he had student loans and things like that. And it's sort of, I use that as like my reasoning to say, okay, well, I'll just pay for your flights. I'll pay for groceries, things like that. So I'm curious from that, you know, experience with, you know, money being so intertwined in the relationship, what have you learned about what to do, what not to do, you know, in future relationships? Because that's, you know, kind of a harsh life lesson, I guess, to come back from Australia, and then your relationship ends and you're in debt. The biggest thing I learned is just having boundaries, you know, being okay with saying no.

You know, when I was younger, it was always yes, yes, yes to everybody. Whether it was, you know, social engagements or helping them out. And I was younger, it was always yes, yes, yes to everybody. And whether it was, you know, social engagements or helping them out. And I was just spending a lot of energy doing that. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, especially, you know, you've got friends in need and things like that. But there were people that really took advantage of my kindness. And I didn't realize at the time, but that really what was happening. And so, you know, that reflected in my bank account, unfortunately, that I got into debt as a result of being too generous. And, you know, I almost felt the opposite way when, you know, the debt happened, you know, where I'm like, I'm saying no to a lot of things. I was really skeptical of people, new people that I met or existing friendships. And so it really was me finding a balance of, okay, you know, you're a good friend, but right now you're going through some drama. Okay. I'm going to help you out. Or

you know what? You're just putting a lot of strain in our friendship. It's a lot of stress. I'm just listening to your drama all the time. I'm going to say no to this. And so the more boundaries I put and the more I respected my own time and my own energy and resources, the more I saw money stayed in my more I saw that money stayed in my bank account. Isn't that interesting? That's so fascinating, actually, how those two can really affect each other. Yeah, it's, you know, and I was talking about this with somebody the other day, where I said, you know, one of the observations I made is that how people treat each other or how people treat themselves actually reflects in their money habits. And so let's say you're a person who resents other people or you're jealous of their success and you try to kind of, I don't know, squeeze every penny out of them because you feel like, well, you know what?

You have all this money. I deserve it. And so they're going to do things that will require you to spend money in them. Whereas let's say you go out to dinner, they're like, oh, I, you know, forgot my wallet, and then you'd pay for them. Or if you're too generous with your time, you end up giving a lot of your money away, whether or not you realize it. No, that's true. Actually, looking back just at some of the, you know, friendships, relationships I had, it's true. It's a good, it's interesting to see how they manage their money and how that reflects who they really are and what their intentions are, just how they kind of value things and their friendships. And it's, yeah, that's very interesting that you put that in such a clear perspective. That's crazy. So I know part of your story is also you lived in China for a big chunk of your life.

Yeah, so that was eight years. I thought I was going to be two, but it turned out to be. Wow. Yes. And what did you do there? I was a teacher. The funny story was I'm a certified high school teacher. And so that's what I did in Australia and South Korea. I was there after Australia. When I went

to China, they were like, oh, you're going to teach grade two. I'm like, oh, well, that's an interesting adventure. So I thought, okay, you know what? I signed a two-year contract. I'm just going to do two years of this and I'm moving on and it ended up loving it and I was there for years wow and where in China were you situated so it's a city called Shenzhen it's literally across the border from Hong Kong and why did you decide to stay for eight years like that's a long time it is So I guess this is a funny story. So this was, I think, about maybe almost two years after I'd broken up with that ex-boyfriend in Australia. And I was all passed it. And I was like, oh, this is my adventure.

This is my time to meet somebody serious. And, you know, I actually remember saying this in my head. And the next day I met the man who would become my husband. Oh, my gosh. That's crazy. No coincidence. And, you know, we became fast friends and we were totally in denial that we liked each other. And a year later, we got engaged and got married very soon after that.

And, you know, we just thought this was a great place to save money and we still want to travel. And so that's really what was the reason why we stayed. And then at what point did you decide to leave? Because now you live in the US. Mm hmm. So I gave birth over in China. So that was a pretty intense experience. Yeah. Yeah. like I can't imagine yeah I was I could talk probably all day and so you know we we basically had to decide like was this a place we wanted to raise a child what was our long-term plan you know our vision for ourselves and so we thought maybe China isn't the place where we wanted to raise a family and wasn't really long term vision for us to be there for, you know,

the rest of our lives, I guess. And so we thought, let's go to the US, let's try that out for a few years. And then if another opportunity comes to go somewhere else, then that's what we'll do. And how do you like it? Is it a good decision? It is. And I think people think I'm totally nuts for living in a very small town, but it's the complete opposite of China, where it's street overload. And I just love the fact that it's quiet. Absolutely. No, that does sound sometimes. I mean, I've been living in the city for many years. And there's actually like a time, I guess maybe it was a year or two ago that me and my husband stayed at, it was a friend's place in kind of the country. And it was so quiet.

I literally, I'm like, I don't remember the last time I've just heard silence. It was so peaceful. I had the best sleep of my life. It was so nice. So I totally hear you on that that sounds amazing now so you moved to the U.S. and you didn't so even though you're a certified teacher you don't you're like self-employed and now you just kind of do your uh own business being a money storyteller and and educating others about personal finance.

Yeah. So the, not that I don't love teaching, I think education is still a big passion of mine. The big reason why I'm doing that is I want to be home with my son. He's only young so much. And it didn't, that surprised me. I never thought that that's, you know, when I became a mother, that's what I want to do. But that really was the catalyst. And as our, you know, as my contract was ending in China, I thought, you know what, like, let me try this out. And if it completely crashes and burns, I could safely say I've tried it. You know, I have enough money in the bank to see me through for the next 18 months. You know, so I'm not destitute. I'm making a very calculated risk. Um, and so that's really what this year in 2017 is going to be is this exploration. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, so I want to talk a little bit about the course that you have out,

which I think is awesome. I got a sneak peek into it. It's all about spending triggers and basically how, you know, you're kind of teaching people how to, I guess, curb their spending by understanding their triggers. So this course really came about, I sort of create, actually, no, I did create it for me as well. Because, you know, just because you figure out a spending trigger doesn't mean it goes away automatically, you know, different things come up. For up for me you know when I moved to the U.S. from China it brought up a lot of emotional stuff and it was really one of those times where I had to figure out like am I spending money on stuff because I'm so stressed out about moving you know what's going on so you know and what I noticed too that there's some really amazing courses out there on budgeting and on you know, what's going on. So, you know, and what I noticed, too, that there's some really

amazing courses out there on budgeting and on, you know, figuring out how to get out of debt, but there weren't a lot that address the emotional side of it. And, you know, and people can disagree or agree with me, but 90% of money is emotional. It is for sure. Yeah. Oh, yes. And what spending triggers are, you know, for those who don't know it is the emotions that you feel that compel you to spend money or you're spending money to fill an emotional need. And there's, you know, it could be stress. It could be a lot of, you know, it could be stress. It could be a lot of things. And so, you know, a lot of um you know it could be stress it could be a lot of things and so you know a lot of the spending that we do we don't necessarily we're not necessarily conscious of it you know a lot of us maybe when we're stressed we end up just buying stuff and we leave the mall or leave the shopping center come home and we're like why do we buy this or what is in my shopping bag

so the course is really you know what really aims to do is to have you be a lot more mindful of the purchases, figure out, you know, what it is that you're spending on based on what emotions you're feeling. And once you've recognized those, it becomes a lot easier than to curb your spending. Absolutely. So were you able to kind of decipher what your spending triggers were and able to curb them? I'm curious what they were. So it's interesting. I'm going through this experiment right now where I'm getting rid of 90% of my stuff. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of, I mean, nine, 90% of it's unnecessary. It's like, I have huge record collection and things like that. Okay. Got it. So it's not like a sofa, you know? Yeah. It's like, I'm getting rid of all of my stuff

I just have a chair and a plate and so you know I'm going through that and I realize like why did I buy these you know I'm going through past purchases because for me right now I don't make a lot of impulsive purchases but back then I did and so I'm looking through these items and I realized one of the ways that people you know feel is that they need to affirm their sense of self-worth. Like they need to feel not feel, yeah, feel better about themselves or, you know, pretend to be somebody that they want to be. And so for me, buying these records was a way to make myself feel like I'm cool and hip and, you know, to make friends. And I felt like without these items, I didn't have something in common with somebody that I just like, I wasn't good enough by myself to make the friends. Wow. Yeah. And it was, it was a really crazy revelation of these.

I mean, these purchases were, I'd say like maybe 10 years, I mean, 10 to five years ago. And once I realized that I was like, it was so much easier to sell them off. And then it also was like, you know, I was also like, why, why, why do I think I'm not good enough? Like, what is it about me that's not good enough? And so I really started to work on like, what are the qualities I like? You know, I shamelessly asked for compliments from my friends and say like, what do you like about me? So I did all that. And that has really helped with figuring out that part of it. Some other people, somebody else that I was talking to the other day, they were doing it because they went through a pretty tough childhood where they, excuse me,

where they only had a bicycle and a really crappy beat up car to get from school and work and things like that. And so they buy new cars. And they realize that they do that because they don't want to relive that experience again, when they were kids. No, just thinking of just people I know, I'm like, there are some people who, you know, it just boggles my mind how they manage their money. It drives me crazy. It's not so much that they don't have any money. It's when they get it, they just blow it on the most nonsensical things. And when you really kind of, you know, dissect, I'm like, I think I know why. And it has to do with either, yeah, like their past, childhood, you know, trauma, things like that. And I think, yeah, it's like, it's, you know, a very simple course, Spending Triggers, but it goes deep. yeah, it's like, it's, you know, a very simple course bending triggers,

but it goes deep. Like it's quite deep when you really get to the root of it and may, you know, entice some people to go to therapy, which is a good thing, which is a good thing. It is. And it's funny because, you know, you've previewed the course. It's really literally three steps, you know, number one, what are the spending triggers number two how do you mark them down number three let's take a look at them and trigger the pattern I mean that's it right sounds super super simple but it's not and it's and it's because your emotions are involved there's a whole host of other stuff you know especially for those who grew up with with you know really tough childhood like do you really want to go back there and think about that you

know especially if you haven't come to terms with it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Me, you know, back in the past, all of my spending had to be, I had, was it related to how low I felt about myself? And I'm like, do I really want to relive those parts of my life? You know? And I can honestly say no, you know, I've come to terms with a lot of it, but to completely relive it, probably not. And so that stuff is tough, you know, and the second part is, is that people deep down know why they spend money the way they do. It's more the after part of it. Like, let's say, you know, back then I admitted my boyfriend was terrible, and he was using me for money and whatever. And I admitted that it was more what happens after I admit it? Like, what do I do next? Yeah. That's the part that scares people. I think the most it's not admitting it. It's what happens after you admit it.

Do you think it's because people are afraid of changing their ways or just like, they're just afraid of change? Yes. I think change naturally is scary to everybody, whether or not we admit it or not. And I think people are? Instead of just, I don't know, personal finance writer or whatever? Like, why did you want to specifically, you know, let people know that you were a storyteller first and foremost? Because I feel like, you know, I want to connect on a human level with people. I think in the personal finance in general, not saying everybody, but in general, there seems to be the separation between institution and person, at least that's how I feel. And, you know, right now that the shift is changing, which is awesome, but there are a lot of people that still perceive like, I have to wear a suit to go to the bank to get a loan,

things like that. And there's just this impersonal thing about personal finance which sounds really ironic and so for me the best way I've always connected with people is telling stories and you know the when I shared my story people connected with me because they realized hey she's a human she went through a crappy breakup like I did you know she understands what I'm going through so I can open up above myself and so what happened recently I was actually on stage at FinCon and I pretty much buried my soul on stage don't remember any of it but I did I saw you you were awesome and so as a result of that I had about six people come up to me afterwards and just I mean they were complete strangers I

don't know them open up about their money stories. And I'm talking about numbers, like details of what happened. I mean, I had a grown man in a suit cry in front of me. It was crazy. And so for me, that's the power of stories is that it shows us that we're all human. No matter if you're black, white, purple, Asian, whatever, or you're male or female or coming from different socioeconomic backgrounds, we're all human no matter you know if you're black white purple asian whatever you know or you're male or female or you know coming from different social economic backgrounds we're all human and to connect with each other and using stories to do that is is super powerful i couldn't agree more which is why i'm so glad you were able to share your story with my listeners for the Mo Money Podcast. This was

such a treat. Yay. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for taking the time to chat with me and share your story. And I will make sure to include more info about your Spending Triggers course in the show notes because I think it's a cool thing for people to check out. And that was episode 94 with Sarah Lee Cain from High Fiving Dollars. You can find out more information about Sarah on her website, highfivingdollars.com. And like I mentioned, she has this awesome course all about figuring out your spending triggers. She's created a course that you can figure out your spending triggers in only two weeks. It's a three-part course. I went through it. I loved it. So I highly recommend

you check it out if you have some issues when it comes to shopping and spending and overspending. You're an emotional spender. She goes through all of the mental part of that, which I love. I feel like there's a big reason why we do the things we do, especially spend the way we spend, and a lot of it is all mental and emotional. So if you would like to take her course and learn more about it, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash spendingtriggers. I'll also include some more information and links to everything in the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 94. But highly recommend her Spending Triggers course. Pretty darn cool. I will see you here next Wednesday because I do not have a listener series episode for tomorrow.

And I am calling out. Here's a call out. If you would like to be featured on my listener series episode on Thursday, please let me know. Shoot me an email, jessica at jessicamorehouse.com, and pitch me your idea. Kind of find out what our topic for discussion for the interview would be, what your story is. Listen to some of my past listener series episodes for some inspiration. And yeah, shoot me an email, jessica at jessicamorehouse.com, and let's see if we can get you on the show. Because I've got some slots available, people, and I would love to share your story. So thank you again for joining me for this episode. I will see you back here next Wednesday.

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