More Money Podcast - 152 How to Get Money (in More Ways than One) - Kristin Wong, Journalist & Author of Get Money

Episode Date: March 28, 2018

Do know how to get money (as in earn), and do you truly get money (as in understand)? I talk with Kristin Wong, financial journalist and new author of the book Get Money about all things getting money! We talk about why people have such a hard time taking action on bettering their financial situation, setting financial goals, money and relationships, and being in the driver's seat of your investments.   Long description: 2018 is the year of the woman personal finance author, and I’m all about it! Just to recap, for season 6 of the Mo’ Money Podcast, I’ve interviewed the following fabulous female authors who’ve published books this year: Shannon Lee Simmons (author of Worry-Free Money), Elizabeth Willard Thames (author of Meet the Frugalwoods), and Cait Flanders (author of The Year of Less). And for my latest episode, I’m interviewing first-time author Kristin Wong of Get Money. You may already be familiar with her YouTube channel or maybe you’ve see some of your articles in the New York Times, LifeHacker, or New York Magazine’s The Cut. She has been talking and writing about money for a while now, so it was only natural for her to write a book about how to live the life you want, not just the life you can afford. Honestly, in addition to Broke Millennial by Erin Lowry, I think Kristin Wong’s book is the perfect for anyone just starting out in their personal finance journey and is looking for some actionable steps to take. And I really do mean actionable, because Kristin wrote her book in a way that will get you thinking and then doing! What I love is that she breaks up her book into stages. Just like life has stages, so does you money. First, you need to power up, then optimize, then grow. I know that sounds simple, but she goes into way more detail in the book. And we chat about a few of those things in this episode. Specifically, why people don’t take action. A lot of us know what we’re supposed to do, but it’s hard to change how we’ve always done things. One of Kristin’s hopes is that her book will be that trigger to help you get moving. Next, we talk about goals. I never really knew financial goals were a thing when I was in my 20s, but I was always working towards something when I was starting to save and invest my money. If only I had made some of those goals more specific, I wonder where I’d be now in my financial life. Then, we talk about something we’ve all dealt with in one way or another: money and relationships. I know first-hand everyone has an opinion about how you and your partner should manage your money, but honestly, those people need to stay in their lane in my opinion. There is no right or wrong way to manage your money, no matter if you’re single or in a partnership. It’s all about what makes the most sense for you and who you’re managing your money with.  Last but not least, we talking about investing. Something that way to many people believe is harder than it actually is. The thing is, you don’t need some fancy investment advisor in an expensive suit to tell you how to grow your money. You can actually do it yourself, or use a robo-advisor to make sure your investments are on track, as long as you get more comfortable with the lingo and some of the best practices out there. I sincerely loved chatting with Kristin, and 100% recommend her book. I know as soon as I my younger sister moves out on her own, it’s gonna be one of the first books I hand her. For full episode show notes, visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/152 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to episode 152 of the Mo Money Podcast. I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Thanks so much for joining me for another episode. And this one's a goodie. I am going to be interviewing Kristen Wong. She is a new author. Man, this has been the season of not only just like new personal finance authors, but also women authors. Yes, I'm so excited to have her on the show. You may know her though, before having the book or whatever, how I got to know her was her awesome YouTube channel. And she goes by the kind of moniker Wild Wong, the Wild Wong. But she's also very well known for being a freelance writer. I mean, she contributes to the New York Times, Lifehacker, New York Magazine's The Cut, and a bunch of other ones.

She also does a lot of TV stuff, too. And she is just a delight. And I absolutely loved her book called Get Money, which is out now. It actually came out yesterday, I believe. So you can grab your copy now. But it really is. One of the questions I honestly get a ton, maybe the most really, is, hey, I'm just starting out in personal finance. I don't know what to do. Or I would like to get a book for a relative who's younger, just finished university. And I just want them to kind of figure what's a good entry point into

the world of personal finance so they can really understand the ropes. And honestly, for a while, it's getting better, but for a while, a lot of the books out there are for people who are just kind of later in their careers, are approaching retirement, and are honestly written by old white men, nothing against them, but there needs to be other voices out there. And for me, somehow I still got into personal finance, even though I read all those books that were by old white men talking about retirement and stuff. Didn't really, something I could relate to when I was like 22. So that's why I'm so excited that Kristen and so many other women are coming out with these

books that have a different voice and kind of talk about personal finance in a different way. And her book, Get Money, is a really... Why I kind of bring all those things up before is because this really is a great book for anyone who wants a good kind of launching off point in the world of personal finance. And it is very much, you know, a how to book is very well structured. So it's just like a really great, you know, if you have no idea what you're doing, or you have someone you you know, want to, you know, give them a book and you know, to help them out, because they're just starting out, this is a really, really great starting point. Anyways, that's just me gushing about the book. We talk about a lot of different elements

in her book in this episode. And then we just kind of start chatting because she's just one of those people that you can just probably talk to for hours because she's just like, you know, girl next door could be your best friend. Like, I just love her. Anyway, so before I get to that interview with Kristen, here's just a few words about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by Planswell. Tired of paying high fees just to get a financial plan for yourself? Well, now you don't have to. Enter Planswell, the first digital company to help you build a comprehensive financial

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check out my video review in the show notes or visit jessicamorehouse.com slash Planswell Review. Thanks, Kristen, for joining me on the Mo Money podcast. I'm excited to chat with you, finally connect after me just obsessing over your YouTube channel and everything you write. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks for inviting me. I'm excited to be on your podcast. You're so welcome. And I'm so excited that you have a book coming out called Get Money, which I love that name.

Where'd that name come from? Well, I'm a big fan of Biggie. No, it's a song, Get Money. But no, I mean, it's kind of like I've always, there's a double meaning here. Like I want to help readers get money. Like I literally want to help. Literally get money. Right.

Get more money in your bank account. I also want to help people mentally get money and figure out how it works and how you can feel more in control of it and how to manage it. So it's kind of a play on words. I actually didn't even think of the second one. I'm like, oh yeah, to get it as an understand it. I like that. Yeah.

So simple yet so complex. I love that. So yeah, so what I find so interesting about you is even though you have the background of being a journalist and a writer and you write about other things than personal finance, you have become known as kind of like that go-to really awesome writer when it comes to money. So I think this is really great that you,

like this book is quite, I mean, there's a lot of pages. It's quite in depth about all the things. So what inspired you or where'd you get the idea to kind of write a book and not just any book, but it is a very step-by-step, action plan, action-oriented book. Yeah, it is very actionable. I have had this idea of writing a book about money for a long time because I've been writing about personal finance for a while and I just have friends and readers who will approach me and ask me questions. And I always wish that I could just hand them a book and be like, just written a book about it. Here it is. Here's everything I know about money. So I've been wanting to do that for a while.

I've had that goal for a while. And then, you know, I've been reading about this concept called gamification. I wouldn't write about a lot of different apps for life hacker and stuff. And these apps would use this concept to kind of manipulate people's psychology to get them to do things. And I don't know if you're super familiar with how gamification works.

A little bit. Yeah, so it's kind of a business strategy that a lot of companies use to like make things fun that are otherwise not fun. So like grocery store reward, I always use that example, grocery store loyalty cards, because like grocery shopping, not exactly a fun thing to do. But when you add like points and rewards to it, it makes the customer a little bit more engaged so they want to spend money. So I thought there are so many like similarities between this concept of gamification and how

personal finance works. Because gamification is all about like manipulating you to feel more in control and more powerful so that you have fun doing something and you actually want to do it. And money is the same way. Like budgeting is boring. Money is boring, let's be honest. The reason my friends don't know a lot about it and their eyes kind of glaze over when I tell them I write about personal finance is because personal finance is boring. Most people feel like they're controlled by money and that's not something they want to think about. So I thought, what if I made this book kind of fun and I put these game design elements in the book and made people slowly feel like, manipulate them in a good way, but for good so they can get their money in order.

So that's kind of how the book came to be and what it's all about. No, I like that because there's a lot of books that just give you, here's the here's the rule of thumb for this, or here's some facts about this. And it's like, that's great. But then it's kind of like in one ear out the other, unless you have, yeah, some something or someone to tell you exactly what to do. You may just like, you'll know what you need to do, but just not actually do it, which I guess is kind of like the purpose of the book is to actually get you to do the things. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, and it's so strange because I would, you're right. I would have friends who ask me for specific advice and I'm like, here's exactly what you need to do. And they would never do it. I know. They're like, I know I should, but.

Right. Yeah. One of my good friends is always like, this is the year I'm going to get out of student loan debt. This is the year I'm going to focus on my debt. And then she jokes and she's like, but it never is. So I thought like, it's hard to take action on these things. I think like, it's because money is psychological. It's not just, you know, logic. It's not just math. It's not just, you know, financial literacy 101. A lot of time people ask like, oh, why don't they teach money in schools? Like, and I actually talked to this organization called Jumpstart who does teach money. That's their job is to bring financial literacy to elementary schools. And they said one of the biggest reasons they have trouble teaching it is that they don't

know what teachers should teach it because you can't get people to take action like personal finances about your habits and behavior. So who teaches that, you know? So that's something that I wanted to think about in the book. I didn't want to just be like a money 101 book. I wanted it to encourage readers actually pick up the book, get a pencil, and write stuff down in it to take action. Exactly. Because that is the only way to really continue to educate yourself on higher level stuff, motivate yourself to continue going is when you do one

thing, see it works. And they're like, oh, because yeah, before, you know, I'm sure like you and lots of other people listening when I was in my early 20s trying to figure out how to get money. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm broke. How do I figure this out? That's super overwhelming. And a lot of it was because there was never any information on like, literally, this is what you do besides lots of the personal finance blogs that were writing about their journeys. And that's, I think, you know, so, so important these days. I know. Because when you see somebody doing it firsthand, that's also really motivating because it shows that, you know, you can do it too.

There's a study that came out recently that says there are so many financial decisions, but people take action when... It was something along the lines of people take action when they find something they can relate to, when they just find advice that they can relate to and go with that. Which is why I think personal finance bloggers have such an important role in financial literacy because how many, most people get their finances in order because they find somebody that inspires them and they find somebody they can relate to and has done it. It's super motivating. Exactly. And sometimes those people have to be, I mean, like just from my experience,

because me and my husband talk a lot, talk a lot to my family and, you know, kind of like, you know, how we talked about before, we all kind of know some things that we need to change in our lives, but if we just talk to each other, we'll never do it. But if it's like a third party, like some blogger online that tells us, and we're like, Oh my God, I got this really great idea. And it's like, I told you that a year ago, but some random person on the internet told you to do it. And you're like, I'm going to change my life now. Like, okay, whatever, whatever it gets you to do it. That you're like, I'm going to change my life now. Like, okay, whatever, whatever gets you to do it. That's so funny. Cause my friend, she watches my YouTube channel and she'll like take my advice and do stuff on there. And then she'll tell her fiance like, oh, well, Kristen thinks that I should be putting this much toward my student loans. He's like,

I've been telling you that for years. Why are you just listening to Kristen's YouTube channel? Yeah. I know. I know. Same for my husband. I mean, you'd think he would. I mean, he's more interested in it now, but at the beginning, he's like, I don't care. And it's like until he started reading kind of blogs or really getting into

like Tony Robbins. He loves him. I love him too. And then he's like, hey, have you heard about this? I'm like, yes, I've been telling you about this for years. Yeah.

Had to hear from Tonyony robbins did you well hey tony robbins has that that netflix documentary that honestly that's what got us into tony robbins i'm not even lying we watched it i'm like i'm sold i want a date with destiny i was so i'm like naturally a cynical person and so i was just me too i'm like what is this a culty kind of thing? But you're like, I don't know. I kind of bought into it somehow. I'm not that persuasive.

Oh, I get it. Like going back to what you're saying, like my dad is super into Tony Robbins and always had been growing up. I'm like, this is so ridiculous. Cheesy. Yeah. Cheesy. And then I watched the documentary.

I'm like, yeah, I also, yeah, I want to date with Destiny. I get it. I'm on board yeah, I also, yeah, I want to date with Destiny. I get it. I'm on board. Sign me up. Sign me up. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I want to kind of talk about how, which I really like kind of going, you know, off the topic of you wanted this to be a very action-oriented book. I like how you kind of broke it into stages instead of chapters. I kind of wanted to go into

why did you break these into these stages that you've got outlined in the book and why? Yeah, why and why? Maybe I asked you why twice. Why and why? Oh my gosh. So just for people listening, the stages are power up, that's stage one. Number two is optimize. Number three is grow. Yes. And it's kind of going along with the gamification theme. Like, it's just fun to call them stages. But more importantly than that, I think it's, you know, a lot of times when people start,

they're like, oh, you know, I'm an adult. I should probably get my finances in order. The first thing they do is, like, usually budgeting, right? Like, oh, okay, I need to budget. Or sometimes they'll just start investing because it's fun. And those things are hard to do if you don't feel like you have any sense of control over your money, which is why I think a lot of people end up destroying their budgets later. They build a budget and it doesn't work because it feels restrictive. It feels like I just want to spend my money on my budget saying I can't. So I kind of wanted to set the reader up to feel powerful. And that's what stage one is all about.

And budgeting is in stage one of the book, but it's toward the end. So I want to kind of make the reader feel as powerful as possible so that when they do create a budget and they do get to those more difficult financial tasks, they have developed the habits and behavior to tackle those tasks. There's research that actually shows that just feeling in control of your finances makes you make better financial decisions. You don't actually even have to be in control of your finances. Just that feeling of power leads to better financial decisions. So when I was writing the book, I thought about how can I

make people feel like they have any sense of control over their finance? So the first stage is quick wins, like being frugal, haggling your bills, stuff like that. Small steps that you can take to feel gradually more in control so that you have the power that you need to get to that next stage. So yeah, stage one is kind of, it's powering up because you are hopefully feeling more empowered. And then stage two is optimizing. Like I think of it as like stage one, you're kind of building this machine, learning the basics, gradually feeling more in control of your money. And then stage two, you're making it a well-oiled machine and you're finding a better bank, you're improving your

credit score, making your finances even better. And then once you get to a comfortable and confident place with your finances where you feel like you have this money system set up that's working for you, then you get to stage three, which is growing your finances, which is investing and negotiating and finding a side hustle and all that good stuff. Yeah. No, I love how you, it's just very organized. So I think like lots of people out there like me who are a little bit, you know, anal that need, like, I just need the steps. And honestly, that is almost one of the main questions I get from people that are looking for some guidance or I just need a plan or some steps.

So it's really nice to see that it is nicely organized. Like just do this and this and this. Well, I'm glad that you see that because I am also very anal and I just, I'm so like, I need everything to be so organized. And I think that I spent, I mean, I might've spent as much time organizing the chapters in this book as I did like actually writing it. Because I was just thinking like, you know, I've been writing about money for a while. I mean, I'm pretty good. I'm not perfect with money, but I'm pretty good at it. And so I think once you get to a point where you're like pretty good with money, it's hard for you to think about what it's like to literally know nothing about money, you know? So I had to kind of go back and I talked to friends who struggle with money and to try to understand like, what is it like from the perspective of somebody who's starting from scratch, just starting from the beginning, you know? Yeah. And yeah, I totally agree. And yeah, it's, it's one of those weird things where when you're at the beginning and you really,

you're kind of a clean slate, you have no idea what you're doing. But then you gradually start educating yourself. Then you're like, oh my gosh, it like, for me, it's kind of a visual person. It just feels like another door is open and And you're just like, oh my gosh. Like I felt like I was just like at the top of this mountain and I just, you know, felt clueless. And then you realize there's kind of another mountain. But if that makes any sense, I don't know if it does, but that's just like what's coming to my mind.

But yeah, just like kind of you and me, it's like I didn't have a background in finance. I started educating myself and then realizing, oh, it's not as hard as I thought. You just have to take steps. And that's why I really like how it's broken into. It's like, start small, build upon that, and then it gets easier and easier. And then when someone's talking to you about,

oh, index fund investing, you know what the hell that means. For sure, yeah. I remember the first time somebody talked to me about investing and I said something like, oh, I need to diversify my portfolio better. And I was like, I had to look behind me and say, who said that? Did I just say that? Did I just say that? And yeah, because I think it does happen gradually, as you said. And I think a lot of times when we are ready to get our finances in order, we think we have to just eat the whole elephant. You've heard that analogy. Okay. So that's not just a weird thing. I've never heard the eat the elephant. Oh, okay. So it was like, where did that come from?

So I did just sound psycho there. Not like Mark Twain had something. It was like, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time or something like that? Which is kind of a display. Who eats an elephant? I don't know. That's gross. I need to use a different analogy. No, I like it. But also, yeah, who gets an elephant and then kills it and then eats it? Yeah. Where did that come from, Mark Twain?

Where is he going with that? Who's eating elephants? I don't know. But anyways. The idea is like, yeah, you think you have to learn everything about money all at once. And you just have to, you learn it one step at a time. And then one day you find yourself talking about investing like you're a pro. I know. And then you're like, oh, well, look at this. Look at this. Another part of the book that I really, really enjoyed was your emphasis on goal setting. Because again, all this information is great,

but if you don't have a purpose, then you're not going to do anything. And that kind of goes for anything in life. If you want to lose weight, if you want to, I don't know, exceed, you know, excel in your career, you need to have a purpose and specific goals. You want to kind of talk a little bit about what, you know, people should look out for in terms of goal setting. Yeah, absolutely. When you said that this goes for kind of everything in life, that's so true. Like if you try to restrict yourself from doing something just for the sake of restricting yourself, you never want to stick to it. It's like a diet. Like, I'm like, oh, I just need to eat healthier this year. So I'm just going to eat healthier. I'm just going to do that. Yeah, right.

Yeah, it never works. And it's the same. I actually, I interview a lot of experts and professionals in the book. And one person I talked to was Dr. Brad Klontz, who's like a financial psychologist. And he's very like, don't think of it as a budget. Think of it as a spending plan because a budget is restrictive. A spending plan is based on your goals and it's working for you, you know? So again, yeah, very important to set clear goals about why do you want to build a budget in the first place? Why do you even want to get your finances together in the first place? Like my friend who says that, you know, this is the year she's going to pay her first student loans. I think it's important to ask like, but why, why do you want

to do that? Is it because, well, I'm an adult and I should probably do it because that's a really boring goal. Nobody wants to be an adult. But maybe you want to travel or maybe it's a simple goal of you don't want debt collectors calling you anymore. That's what it was for my husband, honestly. When he was in debt, he's like, I'm just so tired of feeling like I'm being constantly attacked by these debt collectors. So I don't know. I think you just have to get clear on what your goal specifically is. It has to be something meaningful to you. It has to be something specific. And then what happens is your money works for you. So when you cut back on something and you don't buy that new phone or a pair of shoes

or whatever, those are the things I spend my money on. So that's how you see those examples. Yeah. So then when you don't buy those things, then it's not because, well, I got to be an adult and I can't be spending my money like this. You don't buy those things because you're like, well, no, I want to reach my goal. I'm doing it for myself. So you put yourself in a position of power. Yeah, exactly. And you mentioned in the book that your kind of first experience doing that was you wanted to pay down your student loan so you could

afford a trip to Europe. And you achieved that. But then after that was achieved, then you kind of went back to your old spending way. So what's the difference between like, there's, I guess, short term goals, there's long term goals, how often do people need to kind of reset their goals so they never kind of go back to, you know, spending mindlessly? I think anytime you reach your goal, then it time to, or you get close to reaching your goal, start thinking about your next one. Yeah. But yeah, that's exactly what happened to me. I was, you know, I had a very clear goal. Something I had always wanted to do was travel. And I never had a chance to do that. You know, because my mom was always like, no, you'll travel after you

graduate high school. You'll travel after you graduate college when you get a good job, you know. So finally, I did all those things. And I got a good job. I'm like, I'm gonna travel. So I always had that goal in mind. And that was very easy. But then yeah, after that, I really just kind of floundered because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life. And that takes some serious soul searching. You know, you have to sit down and plot and think about your values and your ambitions and just sort of plot it out. So I think anytime, you know, once you get close to, once you see the light at the end of the tunnel, then maybe it's time to start thinking about the next goal. Otherwise you can spend, you can spend months, years just kind of spending

mindlessly. And then the problem is you like, you know, you've been spending mindlessly for a year and you realize, oh, I want to, I want to buy a house now. And you're like, well, I could have been saving for that entire year, but I didn't know that was my goal then. So. Totally. Yeah. What are your kind of thoughts, I guess, on when you have, because it's one thing to set goals as an individual. If you were to have a partner or a spouse, how do you kind of, I guess, balance that out with your personal goals? Like your goals as an individual and then your goals as a couple? Well, you know, it goes back to just communicating in your relationship, I think.

That's a bigger question, I think, of like where are we on the same page with our goals in general? But I think one way to do that is to, you know, my husband and I, and actually it was a, somebody gave us this advice, was you have separate accounts for your own goals and for yourself, and then you have a joint account for your joint expenses and your joint goals. So I have my Kristen's spending account, he has his Brian's spending account. And, you know, I have my individual things that I want to stay for and he has his, he wants to buy a new car. So he has that goal in mind. And so that's in his separate account, but it has nothing to do with our, our joint account. Um, you know, if we shared the car or something like that, then maybe that would go in our joint account. But I think

it's, that's been my, one of my favorite, like how to manage money in a relationship hacks is to have that, that separate, that separate account and also a joint account. So it's not like you're totally separating your finances, but you're getting the best of both worlds. Like you can still do your own thing with your own money, but you're still a couple tackling money issues together too. Totally. No, that's exactly what me and my husband do too. And it's interesting because for me, it just made logical sense. It was easier like when we did, you know, marry and kind of get our first joint account. We're like, do we like just put all of our money together? Like it just seemed way more complicated to kind of pool our money because it's like, well, we make different amounts. We get our money in different ways and we have our individual goals. So that's kind of what we were like, okay, well, let's have our own stuff. And then we'll have our joint stuff. But still, we kind of have our like, you know, joint aspirations of like, you know, retiring or retiring early. And even though we're saving and investing individually, we kind of motivate each other by having that joint goal or like a trip or something.

Sometimes we'll use our joint account for that, or we'll save individually. So we could, you know, you go half and I go half or whatever. Yeah, no, that works well because I think it's also easy to get resentful if one of you, one person is making significantly more than the other or even just a little bit more than the other, you know. Chances are you and your spouse do not 50-50 make the exact same amount. So when you have, you know, a joint account, well, you've already, you've agreed to put a certain amount in that account. So there are no surprises. So if everything's combined and you don't have your separate accounts, then it's like you might end up paying more for your spouse than you wanted to. But if you have that joint account, you have that established amount going in every month and you've already agreed to that.

So there are no surprises and there's less chance of resentment, I think. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I agree. I was just like, when I wrote a blog post about it and did a video, even an interview with my husband next to me so we could explain it. And a lot of people disagreed. They say, when you're married, that's when you should pull everything together. And I'm like, what does marriage have to do with money? People have such strong opinions about how you, like not, they have strong opinions about marriage and how you should handle your individual marriage and how you should handle your individual finances. And it's just like relationships and money. Like those are two things that are so personal. I know.

How can you possibly say like, this is what works for everybody, you know? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And, and yeah, personal finances, personal, everyone says it, but it's very true. And I think that's, for me, that was my biggest stumbling block as I was learning. And that's kind of like the message I always try to share with people that even though there's some great information out there, great books, lots of guides out there, don't feel like you got it wrong or you're a failure if you tried something that just didn't fit. Because that just means it just didn't fit. There's probably another solution to whatever you want to achieve. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know how many times I've totally had to change my budget? Even now,

I'll make a budget and it's just not at all happening. And I have to go and just recalibrate. I think that's hard for people sometimes because they think that they have to be perfect. And they think that if they've failed, that it just means they're bad at money. And it's like, no, we're all bad at money. We're just figuring it out. We're all just figuring it out. I know. No one is perfect at money. Even the people that like myself, that calls myself a personal finance expert. I'm like, I am not perfect. I, you know, I hear you. I went to Nordstrom yesterday and my husband was like, you went to Nordstrom again and bought stuff. He's like, you literally wrote a book on money. Okay. I'm not still human, still human. Exactly. And also like kind of another popular topic that's been popping up is it's not bad to spend money, but you want to be mindful of how you spend it.

So there's nothing necessarily wrong if you saved up some money to buy something at Nordstrom that makes you feel good and you can afford it. There should not be any shame around that. Right. It's all about just your priorities. Granted for me, clothing is not a priority. I was just being bad. But you're absolutely right. Spending money is not inherently bad. If you want to spend on travel, good for you. Save your money on something else so you can spend on travel. If you don't care about travel and you want to spend on avocado toast, spend on the avocado toast. I can't stand all the judgment around how people

spend their money. I know. Okay, so I have to spend according to your priorities, but that doesn't really work for my life. So you know what I mean? It's just people like to judge, but it really comes down to what do you want to spend your money on? Exactly. And honestly, I didn't know avocado toast was a thing until that article came out. And then honestly, literally a week later, all the brunch places around me started selling it. I'm like, what is going on? It's so good though. I should try it.

I haven't tried it yet. It's just avocado and bread. It seems so simple and yet so complex. I like it. Just like the title of your book. I love that. It's so good. Okay.

We talked about a couple of things. What are some of the most favorite, most favorite, your favorite things that you shared in the book? Some of the things that maybe really, really affected your life when you first learned them. Oh, that is a good question. For me, it was like just realizing that I could do a lot of the financial, like tackle a lot of these financial tasks on my own, honestly. Like that was probably my biggest realization. I mean, I had always kind of known it and I've, I'm a personal finance writer, so I've been right, kind of writing about my experience with money as

a way of getting my own finances in order. But I think investing, when I started investing on my own for the first time, I mean, I always assumed that you got to hire somebody for that, which, you know, maybe you should, but I think a lot of these financial challenges, these financial topics are a lot easier than we think they are. They're not simple. They're complex. And investing certainly is intimidating. When I was writing the chapter, I was like,

man, this is really a tough topic to wrap your head around if you're doing it for the first time. But then I remember learning about it for the first time on my own and just learning what an index fund was and then opening up an individual retirement account on my own and thinking like, oh my God, I'm actually like investing like an adult. So that was a big realization for me. I got into a different stage with my own money. That's when I got into the grow stage when I learned how to invest. Cause I had always been like, okay, I'm pretty good with money. I got my finances optimized. But when I learned how to grow my money, it was like a whole other

level. You know, I felt like I had some control over my wealth, like my building wealth for the first time in my life, building wealth was never in my vocabulary ever, you know? And then suddenly it just, it changed, like it took me to another level with my money. Yeah, 100%. I totally agree. And it's, yeah, like you said, you know, sometimes it does make sense to hire somebody, but I think the realization that you don't actually need to, if you don't want to, you can learn how to do it on your own, if that's something that you want to take the time and energy and effort to do. And yeah, it's exciting. I mean, I've always kind of done the passive index investing

for the past year and a half or so. Before that, I did actively manage mutual funds and had hired a guy and I did not like it. I didn't know what I was doing though. So I thought I was being smart. But then you're like, wait, I have no idea what he's talking about. So I need not like it. I didn't know what I was doing though. So I thought I was being smart. But then you're like, wait, I have no idea what he's talking about. So I need to fix that.

But recently I just like wanted to explore like what's it like buying like stocks, like straight up stocks, which used to terrify the crap out of me. Cause it's like, yes, I know they're very risky and blah, blah, blah. But I just like, I'm like, I just want to feel, I just want to know what it is like

to actually go through the process of like opening up a discount brokerage account and putting money and buying stocks. And then I did it. You're like, oh, that's not that, that's not hard. That's not like, it just seems so hard before you actually even do it. You're like, I don't even know what that looks like. How do you even open it? Yeah. I did the same thing with like, cause I wanted to see what it was like to active trade. Like, how do you go into the stock market? Yeah. How does that happen?

Do I need to? Because, well, I feel like also I've watched a lot of movies. And so sometimes I still think, like, people are on, like, the floor with, like, the papers and yelling with telephones. Like, 1988. And you're like, wait a minute. No one does that anymore. But that is the visual you get for sure. It is.

I know. Yeah. That's sure. It is. I know. Yeah, that's something. It's so empowering, isn't it? Like once you figure it out, especially like as a woman, I think. Yeah. Because you don't usually associate women with investing because we've been told that that's just not our role our whole life. So to figure something like that out that my husband doesn't even, you know, like my husband, I don't want to say my husband, oh, my dad doesn't even know it. But, you know, like to figure something out that you're not like stereotypically supposed to know. Oh my God. It's so empowering and it's such a rush and it really

like motivates you to, you know, it's very motivating to, to, to, you know, build your wealth and figure out, you know, financial security and maybe eventually financial independence. Yeah. So it's just a, yeah, super empowering. Yeah. And especially like you can now help other women do the same and they feel great. And that's, I think that's like the most exciting thing about being able to share this information and write about it is that you can help other, you know, obviously everybody, but I really like helping women because I think there's so many barriers or just a lot of

anxiety, worry, and stuff, stress that women have specifically because traditionally we weren't, you know, and historically we didn't have money to invest with or we weren't told, you know, we're like, oh no, you can't do that. It's like still like when I was, you know, younger, I'm like, well, I know about budgeting and investing for my mom but i had no idea what investing is i think that's more like kind of a man's world and like that is a terrible thing to think you know yeah i think fidelity had some like poll that they did a few years ago that it was depressing they found like a lot of like widows had no idea how to manage their money after their husbands left that's a really terrible situation to be in.

But I mean, it's the reality for, I think, a lot of other generations of just like, oh, my husband deals with the finances. I mean, maybe the woman or the wife is good at saving or budgeting, but then when it comes to the complicated stuff, like actually growing and actually building your wealth and growing your money, then she's kind of hands off. So I do. I think it's super empowering to figure that out.

My best friend is trying to figure out how to invest her money. And I'm like, I just want to go over to your house on a Saturday and help you do all of this. Because she's like, it's so overwhelming. She's like, why are you so excited to come over? She's like, it'll make you feel so good. I know. I know. Oh my gosh yeah no i'm excited i'm excited for your book to come out uh i'm excited to share it with all of my lady friends i have a book club i'm definitely gonna pitch uh it for we always do like fiction but i'm gonna i

think i'm just gonna try to get one of these books in there. Well, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. But yeah, it was a pleasure chatting with you. Before I let you go, where can more people find out more about you and how to get a copy of your book? They can find out more about me at my blog. It's called thewildwong.com, which is my last name. I love that name. It's so cute.

The Wild Wong. Thank you. And my book website is thegetmoneybook.com or you can find it on Amazon. Fabulous. Awesome. Well, thanks so much. And it was a pleasure chatting with you. You too. Thank you so much. And that was episode 152 with Kristen Wong. Make sure to check out her YouTube channel. She's called The Wild Wong. She's got a number of amazing videos and she's just awesome. But also grab a copy of her book. To learn more about her book and to grab a copy and blah, blah, blah, you can go to thegetmoneybook.com. Because if you just Google get money, I mean, obviously rap videos will appear, which I did. I'm like,

oh yeah, that makes sense. Anyway, so go to thegetmoneybook.com or just go to any Amazon or any kind of book place where they sell books and you can grab your copy. And of course, since she's a new author, be nice once you're done with the book and give her a review on Amazon or Goodreads because that helps authors getting those reviews. And make sure to, of course, check out the show notes for this episode. I'm going to write about a bunch of other stuff that we talked about in this show. Go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 152. Now, before I go, I actually have some very exciting announcements,

which include the winners of my recent contest. So before I let you go, or before I get to that point, here's just a few words about this episode's sponsor. Support for this episode comes from Planswell. Have no idea what you're doing with your money? It sounds like you would need a financial plan to get your money organized. And lucky for you, you can do it yourself online with a super smart technology company called Planswell, currently available only in Canada. But what is a financial plan in the first place? At a high level, a financial plan shows you the absolute best thing to do with your money every month so you can enjoy the highest possible standard of living for the rest of your life.

Planswell is the first company in the world to help Canadians build free, top-quality financial plans completely digitally and in only minutes. It takes into consideration the three main pillars of a financial plan. Smart wealth accumulation, the right insurance coverage, and efficient borrowing. Getting a handle of your financial future has never been more accessible. And Planswell is currently offering Mo Money podcast listeners not only a free financial plan, but also up to $20,000 worth of investments managed for free for the first year. If you currently have $20,000 invested in mutual funds, you could switch and save somewhere around $500 in fees. To get started, visit planswell.com slash mo money. Again, that's planswell.com slash for my latest contest, which if you need a reminder,

I was giving away three signed copies of John Robertson's book, The Value of Simple, a really, really great book for Canadians who want to learn how to do DIY investing. One of my top recommendations that he just came out with the second edition of his book. So it's updated because a lot of changes have been happening in the past couple of years with the robo advisors and all that kind of stuff. So I right now live, well live for me, not for you, but whatever. I'm going to be picking the three winners of those books. So first winner is Lisa Richard. So Lisa, expect an email from me very soon And you'll have, I'll give you 48 hours to respond to me. Otherwise, I'll pick somebody else. All right.

So that is winner number one. Let's see. Who should we do next? Next, I've got Bruno. And I only asked stupidly for people's first names, not last names. So I can only kind of tell their last names from their email, but his email does not have anything to do with his name. So Bruno, I'm going to email you. And so even though there's probably maybe a lot of other Brunos listening to this episode, I'm sorry if I get all of your hopes up, but this one particular

Bruno is going to be winning a book. So yeah, welcome or congrats, Bruno. All right. And the third winner of my contest, I've got Mariel or Muriel. I never know how to pronounce, you know, there's no U in there, but it's Mariel or Muriel Jones. You are the third and last winner of my contest. So congrats, you guys. I will be emailing you soon with some more details about how to claim your prize and all that kind of stuff. But thank you so much for everyone for submitting your info to enter the contest. Basically, it was very simple. You know, I make them very simple. I used to do this actually at my old job back in the day at the

newspaper doing the contest and calling winners and all that kind of stuff. So I know people don't like a lot of questions and some kind of survey just to enter a question. They just won't do it. So I just asked for like, what's your name? What's your email? And then I asked, hey, if I were to develop an online course about passive investing, what would you like to learn? And so it's really cool that now I have your feedback for like, what do you want to learn? How can I make the best course possible if I do pursue that in the future, which I hope to. So a big thank you to everyone who did that. Okay, last thing. So if you missed it on Tuesday, I was joined by Lisa Zamparo. So she, you may have already heard the episode with her because I did a live recording with her for my last Millennial Money Meetup, but she's a chartered

professional accountant, financial strategist. Her main thing really is helping self-employed people, small business owners, side hustlers, whoever with their accounting and their taxes and giving them business advice and stuff like that. And so we teamed up because it's tax season. So I wanted to do a webinar about, let's talk about taxes specifically for if you're self-employed, you're a freelancer, you're a side hustler, or you have a small business. Because at the end of the day, it's way more complicated than if you're just doing your personal taxes.

And I know that because I just did my own taxes as a self-employed person. I'm like, oh, okay, this is way more complicated. So that was Tuesday. It's not Tuesday anymore. So you missed it. But I'm going to be nice. And if you want to watch the replay, you can do so at jessicamorehouse.com slash tax webinar. You can sign up and watch the replay and learn what you need to know about self-employed

taxes. Also, I'll preface, and this is probably just me being like a dummy, but it is about Canadian taxes. I'm Canadian, Lisa's Canadian, we are Canadians, and we do Canadian taxes. I have no idea what's going on in terms of taxes in any other country, especially the US. When I talk to some of my US blogger friends, I have no idea what they're talking about with lots of the numbered things and all these codes. I don't know what you're talking about. So unfortunately, it makes the most sense for Canadians. That being said, part of the presentation or the webinar is talking about how to get organized for taxes. That information really

is universal. Sign up. You can watch whatever part you want, skip ahead, whatever. That is it. Thank you so much for listening. I will be back here next Wednesday with another episode of the Momenty Podcast. I will see you then. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.