More Money Podcast - 159 How to Become Financially Independent by 35 - Chris Reining, Early Retiree & Writer

Episode Date: May 16, 2018

Another inspiring interview to get you excited about FIRE! I interview Chris Reining in this episode, who was able to achieve financial independence by 35 (meaning he saved up $1million), and retire comfortably at 37. Now, he spends his days working out, doing yoga and meditating, and writing on his blog at ChrisReining.com. So, how did he do it? He shares how in this interview, so check it out!  Long description: I’ve been chatting to a lot more guests this season who’ve been able to achieve financial independence in their 30s, and wow is it inspiring! Because really, they didn’t do anything crazy to achieve financial independence. They just made that their main goal and went for it! And Chris Reining, who was able to reach financial independence at 35 and retire at 37, is no different. He didn’t come from wealth, and although near the end of his career his was earning money, he was by no means “rich”. He worked in cyber security in Madison, Wisconsin and did two main things to reach his goal of saving up $1,000,000 for retirement. Practice Value-Based Spending This term “value-based spending” has been popping up a lot more, and for good reason. It’s taking the extreme out of being totally frugal or a shopaholic. It is giving you permission to spend your money (because after all, that’s what it’s for), but also giving you that balance and perspective so you spend it wisely. By practicing value-based spending, not only will you feel more joy when you do spend money, you’ll also find that there’s a lot more money available to save for your future goals. Chris shares that when he started practicing this, he found it easy to cut out coffee, cable and his expensive hobby of flying planes. They didn’t align with his values, and so he started only spending money on what did, and then making a conscious effort to live below his means so he could continue to save up and invest for his goal of early retirement. Earn More Money As Chris says in our interview together, at a certain point, there’s no where else to cut back, and at that point you’ll need to figure out how to earn more money. What Chris did to grow in his career and earn a higher salary was find a mentor, learn some new skills and push himself to take public speaking lessons by joining Toastmasters. By doing this, he was able to earn more and reach his goal of financial independence that much sooner. For full episode show notes, visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/159 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to episode 159 of the Mo Money Podcast. I am your host, Jessica Morehouse, and I'm so excited to have you join me for a fresh new episode of the show. You're going to like this one because I'm going to be talking to someone who's achieved something that some of us can only dream of. I'm talking about Chris Reining, who was able to reach financial independence by the ripe age of 35. That means by 35, he had a million dollars to his name. And I'm a little jelly, but also super proud of him because hell yes, we should be talking more about how we can live our best lives, how we can get out of just working a job we kind of hate, how we can reach financial independence on an average salary. And that's exactly what we're talking about in this episode. He did not grow

up rich. He did not win the lottery. I asked him all these questions. And so he really does share how he was able to do this and also what his life is like now that he is financially independent. What does he do all day? I'm curious. So I'm going to be talking to Chris more about all of that good stuff in this episode. But before I get to that interview with Chris, here's just a few words about this episode's sponsor. It's spring cleaning time, but I'm not talking about decluttering your home. I'm talking about taking this opportunity to organize your finances. If you want to prevent a headache next tax season and want to get your business in better shape this year, then this is the time to do something about it.

Where should you start? Well, I use FreshBooks to keep my business in check, and you might want to do the same. For the past 13 years, FreshBooks has been making really intuitive cloud accounting software. And as a result, they've carved out a massive following of freelancers and self-employed folks like myself. Not only is FreshBooks ridiculously easy to use, it also has a number of powerful features. You can create an invoice in under 30 seconds. You can make professional looking proposals that include a project outline, scope of work, and timeline. You can even link your bank account so your business expenses are automatically added to FreshBooks. You see, there's a reason I've been using it for the

past few years, and that's because it's simple and it works. And FreshBooks is offering MoMoney podcast listeners a 30-day unrestricted free trial when you go to freshbooks.com slash mo and enter MoMoney podcast in the how did you hear About Us section. Once again, go to freshbooks.com slash Mo and enter Mo Money Podcast in the How Did You Hear About Us section. Thanks, Chris, for joining me on the Mo Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on here. I'm so happy to be here. You've been able to do something that I would love to be able to achieve, but I don't know if I'll be able to. And it's a very, the reason I really wanted you on the show is so you were able to become financially independent at 35,

very young age. And it seems like the whole idea of financial independence, retiring early, the whole FIRE community is on FIRE, pun intended. And so I wanted to have you on the show, Jade, to really get to know your story and just how you were able to achieve this because I think I mean everyone's on board everyone wants to who wouldn't want to you know become financially independent before 65 but a lot of people I think have a lot of questions and don't really understand how one can actually achieve this so that's why I want to talk to you about how that but let before we kind of get started in case people don't really know your backstory, where did you, I mean, did you come from wealth? What is your story? What is your background? Were you already rich? Yeah. Yeah. The key is just getting rich from your

parents. Yeah. And then there you go. End of interview. No. So no, I had a very normal sort of upbringing, middle class, probably lower middle class, actually, where my dad worked a nine to five job and my mom stayed home with us three kids in Illinois. And it was very traditional. And so I graduated from high school and went off to college. And that is where I sort of figured out that I liked... Actually, I was always interested in finance. Yeah. Probably not surprising. Yeah, always.

Like ever since I was a little kid, I was like either starting little businesses or I was like really into trading baseball cards and just like, I mean, that's almost like stock trading. Right. And so I always was interested in, in money. And so I went off to college and I was like, I'm going to be a finance major. And so I spent, you know, a year or two years taking finance classes. And then I discovered computers and this was maybe like 98 99 and just like totally was that kind of i mean correct me if i'm wrong but is that kind of the time when the internet did exist and apple was just starting to kind of come about or like what was going on

during yeah so like the late 90s it was i mean it was Windows 95, if you are old enough to remember that. And yeah, the internet was around. It was taking off. Like I remember in high school, we were still on modems though. Yeah. If you remember those, 14, 4, 28, 8, bought modems where you had to have two phone lines. Yeah. Which we didn't because we couldn't afford it. But anyway, so yeah, I just got really interested in computers and just the fact that like you could like control the operating system and all this stuff.

And so I switched my major to management information systems, which is kind of like a blend between business and computers. And then I graduated and took a job doing computer security work, which I was, you know, just like, that was my dream job. Like I coming out of college, like I wanted a job doing cybersecurity. And I found this, this company in Madison that hired me. It was the only one that I had an offer from. And so I took it, moved to Madison, Wisconsin. And, you know, it was like living the dream. Like I was making, I wasn't making very much money. I think $36,000 was my starting salary. And, you know, I was just working and loving it. And, you know, just sort of fast forward the story about, you know, around my mid to late 20s, you know, I was just kind of disillusioned already with this nine to five grinds with with like not really having control over step back and was like, okay, like if I continue to essentially like manage my finances the way that I'm managing them, I am going to be doing this for the next 40 years.

And I can't do that to myself. I can't do that to my future self. And so that was really the sort of Genesis around figuring out like, okay, if I don't want to, to sort of, um, be enslaved to a nine to five job and bosses and all this stuff, then I need to take control of my money. And the way to do that is to become financially independent. And so that was the sort of epiphany that I had to get me on that path. Who did you, I guess, uh, look at as kind of a role model or how did you get this idea of financial independence when you were in your kind of 20s? Oh, that's a really good question. So yeah, I had like no idea that people were retiring early or, you know, regular people could build enough wealth to like take time

off. Like, because I looked at my parents' generation and everyone worked until they were in their 60s. And that's just what you did. And so you never really question that because that's just what everyone does. And I was actually in a secondhand store down the street. And I came across this book called Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. And it was a dollar, a whole dollar. And I just bought it and I read it. I started reading it and I just blew through it in one Saturday. And like the concepts in there started making a lot of sense to me

because what they were talking about is like every time you're making money, you're basically trading your life for money. And then you can use that money to buy stuff, or you can use it to buy back your time by investing in it, saving it, that sort of thing. And so that was how I really learned about financial independence and that there was a way to get there that normal people can do. It's funny that you mentioned that book because I haven't read it yet, but it is, I literally, talking to so many people who have become financially independent

on the podcast, I bought it on Amazon. So it is on my like coffee table, ready to be read right after this interview. That's awesome. Yeah. Because yeah, when I kind of think of when I was in my twenties, there weren't that many examples of people who did that. I knew some people talked about early retirement, but usually when they talk about early retirement, they're like, I want to retire by 50 instead of 65 or 70. I'm like, that still seems like a long time. And it's true what you kind of say, the disillusionment. I think a lot of us, especially millennials, are getting to that because we're kind of all on that same path of going to school, getting that job. We're doing all the, you know, the checklist, life checklist things.

And then we get to that certain point where we have achieved what we're supposed to achieve, which is a stable job, you know, a home, stability, all that kind of stuff. And then we're like, now what? I have to do this for the next 40 years? No, thank you. So after reading that book, what steps did you take to kind of change how you did manage money to kind of start working towards that goal of reaching financial independence? Yeah, that's a really good question. So the first thing that I did, which a lot of people probably don't do, and I wasn't doing it either, was tracking my spending. So I had absolutely no idea where any of my money was going. It was coming in, it was leaving. As an

aside, I was putting money into a 401k. So when I started working at 22, I was putting in a measly, whatever it was, $50 a month or whatever I could afford into my 401k. But besides that, I wasn't really saving or investing money. It was just money was coming in, money was leaving. I really had no idea where it was going. And so step number one was really taking a step back and figuring out just by going through all my different accounts, my savings account, my checking account, my investment account, like, okay, this is how much money I have coming in. And this is how much money is leaving, not just on a yearly or monthly basis, but I went down to like the day, like just tracking this, how much money I have, this is how much money is

leaving and getting in or building, I'd say an awareness of my relationship with money. And so that I think is just the first piece is figuring out what is the state of the union, like what is actually going on with your money right now. Such a simple thing. And it's something that no, like so many people, unless they're like already kind of interested in personal finance and, you know, reading blogs and listening to shows and going to your website and stuff like that, most people generally do not track their spending because it does sound boring as hell. And a lot of work. I mean, it's a lot easier now. For you, when you did it, when you were tracking it daily, were you keeping receipts or how did you actually do that? Now,

it's pretty easy. I think with any bank or credit card, you could do that now i just like it's pretty easy i think with any bank or credit card you could just download it from your account but right right yeah so now there are plentiful uh tools that you can use that make it easy but i actually think that that's even though there are tools i don't think that that's necessarily the right way to do it because when you're using a tool you also lose some sort of awareness because I know people use, I don't know, uh, mint. Yeah. Mint's a great tool. I used to use it a long time ago, but it kind of just sucks in all your data and then you kind of look at it and it's, you know, it's like, Oh cool. And then you just go on with your life. But if you actually have to spend the time to like manually type it in,

which is what I did, I just had a Google spreadsheet, a Google sheet where I just pluck in my numbers on a monthly basis. And when you do that, it kind of makes you take a step back and think like, okay, I spent X amount on this thing. Was it really worth it? And you just build a tighter relationship with your spending than you would just using a tool. So I'm still an advocate for good old fashioned pencil and paper or a spreadsheet. I know a hundred percent. And that's exactly what I do too. I have a Google sheet and my husband has one. And so we have our separate ones for our separate spending and then one for our joint spending. And every single month that he doesn't really like it, he's gotten to

like it now, but we go through every detail and be like, are we happy with what we spent our money on? Or is there something that we're like, why did we do that? So we can be better next. But I totally agree. There's so many different apps out there and I think that's great to try it out.

But for me, the only thing that has honestly worked and changed my habits is that kind of manual factor of plugging it in and taking a look and really thinking about it. But it's too automated. It's too automated. How do you think that you can sustain that over a long period of time? It's honestly, it doesn't take me that long. So like our thing is just we go into our credit cards and our bank accounts. We download the Excel spreadsheets from those and then we input

it, that data into our spreadsheet. So it really takes like 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes probably, I spend 15 minutes a month doing it. Yeah. And when you realize that, and when people hear that, they're like, oh, that doesn't sound so bad. I could probably do that. And for me, I'm assuming that you've been doing this for quite a while now. For me, unfortunately, I've only been doing this for maybe a year and a half now. Before I had a budget, I loosely knew what was going on. I never tracked it to the dollar. And looking back, I'm like, I really regret that. I really wish I had tracked it because I'd have so much more clarity. I wouldn't be like, I think I know what's going on now. I'm like,

I specifically know what's going on. So. Yeah. And just to mention one more thing about that, it's almost like I started that back in, that must've been around 2006. And so now what is that? 12 years. So 12 years. And it's almost like I've built such a strong habit around that, that I almost can't stop doing it. Like I couldn't see myself not doing it. It's not a choice anymore. It's just like something I do as part of my, as part of like how I run my life. Yeah, exactly. And it doesn't seem like, again, cause it doesn't take you that long. It's not a big burden. It's not, you know, that bad. It's not that bad. So that is awesome. So, so you started with that. What did you do after that? On top of like, that's great tracking your spending, but that's probably not going to lead to a million dollars anytime soon just by doing that. Right. And so it really comes down to two things. And I mean, you could go really deep into both, but it comes down to saving more of that money then. And if you want to, or you can,

earning more. And so saving more of that money, once I knew where my money was going, then it was time to sort of, like you just mentioned, the things that I'm buying, are they really worth it? Do they really make me happy? Do they have some sort of utility in my life where am I just spending this money just to spend it and not really getting the value out of it. So it really comes down to almost like value-based spending. So making sure that you're spending in the areas that you value and sort of cutting out everything else. And so for me, I mean, this is sort of a tired concept, but I stopped going out for coffee every every single day. Like every single day I would go out and get a coffee with two shots of espresso, a red eye. Oh, I didn't know that

was called a red eye. Oh, that's fun. Learn something new every day. Yeah. And yeah. So every single day I would get that and you know, it's five bucks, five bucks every day. And, but then, I mean, yeah, you're not going to become rich by saving $5 a day over a short period of time. Like you really need to escalate that. And so then, you know, I just went up the ladder and cut out, I don't remember anymore, like cable TV I cut out and they went all the way up to cutting out a hobby of mine, which was flying airplanes.

And I was spending, uh, you know, or $1,000 a month to fly an airplane. And so just as a hobby, like just for something fun to do. And it was just... Just because, just flying some airplanes. I love that. And so like I cut that out and it's something I liked doing, but what I liked more was the idea of retiring early or having control over my time. And so, I mean, you have to make some hard choices about what do you really want more? Do you want to spend money on things that you get maybe some sort of instant gratification

from, or do you want to spend money on giving your future self an opportunity to do something amazing? Yeah. So that is kind of an idea too, that I've been thinking a lot about. So money on giving your future self an opportunity to do something amazing. Yeah. So that is kind of an idea too that I've been thinking a lot about. So I feel like there's kind of a disconnect or just the idea of delaying gratification is good, but it also can be bad because some people, I think a lot of, I'm kind of thinking of like my parents and a lot of baby boomers, a lot of them delay, oh, well, I'll get to that when I'm retired. I'm going to do my passion project when I'm retired. And so they almost do it to kind of the extreme. So how do you balance that delayed gratification? So you're like, okay, I'm not going to buy this

now, but maybe I can in the future because this will help me get to financial independence, but also living your life and having fun in the moment as well, if that makes sense. Yeah, that does make sense. And so, yeah, people seem to have this idea that you have to deprive yourself. You can't have any fun. I don't know, if you go to a bar, you have to get a glass of water instead of a beer. If I don't know, just like you are eating rice and beans. Yeah. Like you can't have fun until you've reached that goal basically. Right. And again, I think it just comes back to spending money, taking the time to figure out, okay, what, what's really do I value in my life? And just a quick example, like for me, it was travel. And so I always put money aside for travel and I wouldn't feel bad about spending

$2,000 to travel. I mean, I've been to something like, I don't know, 15 countries now because that is something that's important to me. I like it. And so I don't mind spending money in that area. But like, well, like I just mentioned, like cable TV or whatever, like, like who cares? Like, I don't, I don't care about TV. So I'm not going to spend money in that area. And it's just going through your life, sort of combing through your life and figuring out, okay, the things that I care about, I'll spend money on. That's great. You should be doing that. The things that I don't, okay, you kind of have to be ruthless about cutting those things out and just moving on with your life. Absolutely. Yeah.

So balance is key. An extreme in either way is never a good thing. Yeah, that's a really good way to say it. Yeah, I mean, it's easier said than done. That's for sure. But that's, I mean, that's just called life. Always trying to figure it out. Yeah, and it'll be different for everyone, right?

Like things that I value, you're not going to value and vice versa. So yeah, it is very personal. It's just personal finance. And so yes, it's like you shouldn't listen to other people about what they spend money on because it's going to be different for you. Exactly. And a good way to figure out what your values are is taking a look at what you're spending your money on and if they make you feel like happy or like what the hell.

So you talked a lot about the first component, which is saving money. The second one is earning more. How were you able to do that second component? I'm assuming investing was a big part of it. Yeah. I mean, investing was always a part of it, but I, I mean, let's talk about my, my career a little bit. I was, I was earning, um, I was earning decent money, but I knew that, okay, so you can only decrease your spending so far, right? Like you're never going to decrease your spending to zero. And so the other way to widen up that gap is to make more money. And again, that's easier said than done. But what I did and what I recommend is to get mentors because mentors will help you

figure out what you need to do to get to where you want to go. And so I approached a couple of people who were three, four, five years further ahead in their career doing a job that I thought I wanted to do. And they sort of helped me come up with a strategy for how I could get to where I was to that point where they were. And so, you know, one of the things that I did was to join Toastmasters, which is a professional speaking organization, because that wasn't a strong suit of mine was giving presentations or running meetings, that type of thing.

And if I wanted to get to the next level, that's an important aspect of the job. And so it was sort of pushing myself to learn or improve my skillset in order to have an opportunity to earn more in a different and better position. Now, I mean, you have to kind of play the long game with that as well, because like doing these things, these are extracurriculars outside of work and you don't get paid for them. But you're really like playing the long game here where you're just building an asset. You're building your career, career capital. And by doing that, you'll eventually, hopefully be able to get the rewards of that. So you're able to kind of, you know, spend your time honing your craft, getting some

new skills so you can kind of elevate in your career so you can earn more money. Yeah. Yeah. You've been a really good example of that, right? Because you have a wide breadth of skills. Yeah. And it honestly did help me in my, I mean, now I'm self-employed. But before when I was working in the corporate world, I know I was able to get that job and get a higher salary because of it, because of the skills that I'd got on the side on my free time.

So I always recommend, you know, if you're spending too much time, you know, doing TV and you're unhappy at your, you know, your job, you want to switch or you want to get a promotion, you know, spend some of that extra free time. Yeah. Getting a new skill to, you know, make your stand out. It works. It really does. It really does It works. It really does. It really does. Yeah, it really does. Awesome. So that, yeah, I think that's another question that, or a thing that lots of people like to really focus on is that, oh, you were able to become financially independent because

you earned a lot of money or you had a high paying salary. Do you believe that people that have like an average salary are still able to achieve that? Maybe not in the same timeframe, but still eventually? Sure. I definitely believe that. I mean, I think that, yeah, I had a career in tech, but again, it was in the Midwest. I mean, I wasn't making a lot of money, but I think that if you're making less money and a lot of people are, right? Like it's just like they're in a career. They've built a skill set around that career. And so at some point they might reach a sort of ceiling, right? And they're not going to be able to make more money.

And that's fine. I just think that it might take a little bit longer. But like with anyone building wealth or looking to become financially independent, I mean, it takes time, right? It just takes time. It isn't something that just happens overnight for anybody. It's a long road to get there. But I think that what's most important is just being persistent and being disciplined. And you kind of never know if you're investing in the market, like you kind of never know when it's going to happen either. It's just, it'll happen when it happens and you can't get sort of frustrated that it's not happening as soon as you think it should.

Absolutely. So you had a list on your website or when you emailed me that you became financially independent at 35, you saved up a million dollars, but you didn't quit your job until 37. So why did you delay? Like for me, if I like hit that mark, I'd be like, bye, I quit. Why did you delay two years? Or what happened in those two years that you didn't quit your job immediately? I was overthinking everything. Oh, were you?

So you wanted to make sure that you had all your ducks in a row, basically. Yeah, there's this concept that's called, or I've heard called, like one more year, right? And people nearing traditional retirement fall into that crap as well, where you think, like you've checked all the boxes, you've dotted the I's, crossed the T's, but then you kind of get this feeling like, well, I should just work one more year, you know, just for a little more cushion. And then the next year it's, oh, I should just work one more year, you know, just for a little more cushion. And then the next year it's, oh, I should just work one more year. It's just a never ending thing where you'll look

back and it's like, I've been doing that for the last 10 years. And so I was sort of in that trap where I was like, okay, I could walk away now. You know, I have the financial means to do that, but like, that's kind of scary. Like I'm throwing away, uh, essentially a 15 year career that I built. And, uh, that you're not really throwing away. Cause I guess like technically you could find another job, right? Yeah. I mean, I could always go back to work and that was something that, you know, I was sort of writing, writing out like, okay, if should I do this or not? Like that was one thing that I wrote was I can always go back to work. Yeah. Like no one's going to take that experience you have, but I guess it, it probably gets harder if you've been, you know, you quit your job,

say at 35 and then you realize, oh, I have to get back to work at 45. People will be like, what were you doing for the past 10 years? You're like living my life. I'm in a good time. I love that. That's great. So yeah, it was really that it was, you know, I was, I was there. I was, I was, I just wasn't mentally ready. And I think it just, it took time. It took a year and a half or two years to get there. And the other interesting thing is that it's really, you don't realize how much of your identity is wrapped up in work, right? Because if you go, like pretend if you go to some function and you're there and you don't know anybody and you go up to somebody and say,

hey, how are you? And you start talking to them and you exchange names. What is the first thing or the first question that they ask you? It's always, what do you do? What do you do? And so we have so much of our identity wrapped up in what we do. And so it's kind of like,

okay, if I'm not doing my job anymore, what actually am I doing? What's the answer to that question? What do you say to people now when they ask, what do you do? If I'm playing around, I'll just, I'll say, well, I don't do anything. I watched their brain kind of like melt.

Yeah. They're like, what? Their brain just malfunctions. And then we go on with the conversation. But, you know, I do spend my time, my, especially my mornings are sort of my writing time. So I'm spending time writing about money, which I've been doing since 2012 is when I started my site. And so I'm doing what I've always been doing. I just have, I guess, more time to do it or more freedom to do it.

And then I sort of get the rest of my day back, right? Like my afternoons are pretty open and free. And so, um, so yeah, I'll, I'll usually just say I do nothing or, you know, I just, I, I'm, I'm a writer. You're a writer. That sounds way better than doing nothing. I'm a writer. That sounds fancy, financially independent. And I'm a writer, probably the only way you can make a living as a writer right yeah absolutely so what do your days yeah i guess you kind of walked us through kind of what your days are so it's just you know doing whatever you want to do writing and uh traveling right that's kind of and what i'm most curious about is because i know you did talk a little bit about

that delay you know between 35 to 37 but do you what is your game plan? Or do you ever worry that at a certain point at like 60, you'll be like, Oh shoot, I don't have enough money. Like, how are you going to, I'm always so curious, like how do people sustain themselves for such a long time without, you know, going back to a traditional job? Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of unknowns, um, to answer that, that question, but that's a big question. Sorry. A lot of the, a lot of the, the research and, um, well, yeah, I'll just leave it at that. A lot of the research says that, you know, you can draw 4% of your investments every year and that should last forever. And so, so I don't really worry about money, uh, any, anymore. Um, I don't think that's, and there, there's other things that

people always bring up like, um, longterm healthcare and things like that. But I, I just, I'm not, um, worrying about any of that now or yet. Um, but as far as my day, yeah, I'm spending most of my mornings. I mean, this is really nothing like amazing. It sounds amazing to me. I'm not like walking around in a tuxedo drinking champagne. I'm just like a regular person and I'm spending my time writing and then just spending a lot of time on myself, like learning and growing. I'm reading way more books than I ever read. I'm a big reader.

And I'm taking way better care of myself health-wise. So I'm really into working out and doing yoga. And I've really delved into meditation. So I have a pretty consistent meditation practice now. And so it's just sort of spending time in areas that I was probably neglecting before now that I have the time to do that. Yeah. Well, that sounds lovely. I wish I could. Well, actually, I probably could do that. I just keep making excuses for why I don't meditate and work out. I should just do it. That's my problem, not yours. That is amazing. Before I let you go, what is kind of one piece

of wisdom that you would like to leave listeners with something to kind of inspire them? I mean, your story in itself is very inspiring because it does kind of seem like, well, you were able to do it, so why couldn't I? So what would be something that you wouldn't want to let listeners know? Oh, that's a big question. The first thing that comes to mind is just thinking long-term, right? It's, I think a lot of people get frustrated with, um, with, with their money and things aren't moving fast enough, but, you know, building wealth and becoming financially independent and retiring, retiring early or just retiring. I mean, it's all about the long game and about spending, uh, you know, not getting frustrated, but just spending the time that you do have,

making sure that you're setting yourself up, your future self up now. I like it. That's perfect. Well, Chris, where can people find more information about you? Well, I write at chrisreining.com. So you can go there and check out what I write. Awesome. Well, I'm sure they will because you're amazing and you're a writer. Thank you so much once again for joining me. It was a pleasure chatting with you. Thanks for having me on, Jessica.

And that was episode 159 with Chris Reining. Make sure to check him out at his website, chrisreining.com. And his last name is spelt R-E-I-N-I-N-G, in case you're interested. You can also hit him up on Twitter. Chris J. Reining is his handle. I'm sure he would love to chat with you. And yeah, dang, right? 35. Yeah. If that's not motivation to stop just wasting your money and wasting your life, I don't know what will. If anything, I feel super unproductive. I need to get to work right now on something to help me reach financial independence right away. But anyways, I hope you liked that

episode. A couple extra things I want to share with you that you will not want to miss. So stick around for just a sec. Here's just a few words about this episode's sponsor. Track your hours, format the estimate, work out taxes, capture your expenses, chase that late payment, prepare the invoice, submit the proposal. Welcome to the worst part of being a freelancer, otherwise known as paperwork. The good news is that the good people at FreshBooks have created a ridiculously easy cloud accounting software for freelancers that turns tackling these time-sucking, never-ending tasks into no big thing. Send a polished invoice in 30 seconds, set yourself up to get paid online in two clicks, and manage your expenses by taking pictures of receipts from your phone.

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Rich and Fit. Richandfit.co is where you can find more info about our courses. And I say courses now because although we started out last June with our first ever course, the Rich and Fit Bootcamp, which you can sign up to now. We split that bootcamp into two separate courses. So there is Rich and Fit Fitness Foundations for just fitness stuff and Rich and Fit Financial Foundations for just finance stuff. So if you want to do one and then the other, or you just want to focus on your finances or just want to focus on your fitness, well, we have the course for you. And since you're an awesome podcast listener, I want to offer you a little discount to get you go and save you some

money. You can save 20% if you use my promo code, Mo Money. There you go. At the cart when you're about to buy. That's where you put it in. Also, last week, I pulled the winner for two tickets to go to that Leaders and Icons conference, pulled the winner for two tickets to go to that Leaders and Icons conference. I was giving away two tickets to this conference that was happening in Toronto. I was also able to attend and it was so awesome, so inspiring and just got me just really pumped to, I don't know, focus on my business, focus on some of my goals, really look at my, you know, vision board again and just like get to work and stuff and also start reading more. I've been

reading a lot more, you know, biographies and autobiographies and inspirational books. And then it got me thinking, hey, I've had some amazing, amazing authors on the show this season. I think I should do another giveaway. So I am doing a book giveaway of all of the authors that I've had on the show in the past season. And bonus, most of them are female authors. So that's pretty exciting. So if you want to enter this book giveaway contest, all you have to do is go jessicamorehouse.com book giveaway. That'll take you to the entry form where you can enter to win one of the books that I am giving away. Or just go to the show notes. I'll have more information in there. That's jessicamorehouse.com

slash 159. Once again, the show notes, you can find that for every episode that you listen to. It's always just jessicamorales.com slash whatever the number of the episode is. So I hope you enter because I've got some amazing books that I want to make sure that you read because I read them all. I love them all. I want to share the love. So yeah, okay, that is it for me. But I will see you back here next Wednesday. And if you're curious what I'm going to be up to this week, this coming week, over the long weekend, I'm going to be on another trip because I'm a jet setter, apparently. I'm going to be in San Francisco.

I've never been. Super pumped. I've always wanted to check it out, going to see Alcatraz, obviously, and just see what's going on over there. So if you want to see what I'm up to while I'm in San Francisco, make sure to check out my Instagram. I've been doing a lot more posts and specifically Instagram stories. I think that's kind of my jam. So make sure to just go to, I think it's just instagram.com slash Jessica I Morehouse. Again, you can find that on my website. But yeah, so that's how you can keep in touch if you like. All right. Again, I'm shutting up now. See you back here next Wednesday.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.