More Money Podcast - 171 Why You Should Feel Good About Making Money - Amanda Abella, CEO & Founder of Make Money Your Honey

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Episode 171 of the Mo Money Podcast. I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. Super pumped for this episode. I'm interviewing my pal, Amanda Abeya. I have known her for years through the kind of personal finance blogosphere, but we actually only met in person for the first time, I want to say, maybe about a year ago. And then we kind of reconnected at a kind of women in business retreat that we went to with a bunch of other people back in the spring. And I just love chatting with her. She is so funny, but also so like positive and energetic. And she just, after talking to her, you just feel super pumped and you're like, yeah, let's do this. And also after kind of getting to know her and her business a

Starting point is 00:00:51 little bit more, and you'll kind of find this out in the episode. So she started out kind of in the personal finance blogging world and then shifted that to kind of start her own business that's more focused on business coaching and sales coaching. And I actually was in the, you know, looking for, you know, someone to help me with my own sales as I am a financial counselor and don't really have too much of a background in terms of sales and selling and finding clients and all that kind of thing. And so I hired her and she helped me a ton. And right after, I'm like, oh my gosh, I need you on my show. We need to talk about all of the things, especially the topic of earning and how one of my biggest issues that we kind of discovered in working

Starting point is 00:01:39 together was that it's not so much that I was bad at selling or didn't know what I was doing. I had this weird money mindset that I felt guilty, basically, about trying to pitch myself or trying to sell my services. I felt icky about it. I didn't want to feel salesy. I didn't want to push anything on anybody. And because of that kind of mindset, I think it kind of, well, I didn't make any sales, basically. So people didn't want to work with me, probably because I was emitting this kind of aura of whatever. So we kind of get into that. That's a big kind of focus of the topic is earning. So I know you're going to love it. I'm super excited for it. But before I get to that interview with Amanda,

Starting point is 00:02:18 here's just a few words about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by FabFitFun. Have you tried out one of FabFitFun subscription boxes? No? Well, what are you waiting for? In case you don't know, FabFitFun is a subscription box service that provides full-sized beauty, fashion, fitness, and lifestyle goodies for one low price. How low? Combined, all the products in their boxes are valued at $200, but you only pay $49.99. That means you could get a box of 8 to 10 full-size products from brands like The Honest Company, Tarte Cosmetics, Kate Somerville, Free People, Summer and Rose, and more for less than

Starting point is 00:02:56 $50. Not only that, shipping is free for most US locations and just $8 for other locations like Canada. And because FabFitFun is awesome, they are offering $10 off to all Mo Money Podcast listeners. Just use the promo code MONEY and get $10 off at checkout. To learn more or to get your first box, visit FabFitFun.com and use promo code MONEY. That's FabFitFun.com and promo code M-O-N-E-Y. Thanks, Amanda, for joining me on the Mo Money Podcast today. Thanks for having me. I'm so psyched.

Starting point is 00:03:29 I'm excited too. It was so nice getting to know you in person this spring, I guess it was, for the event that we went to called Statement. But then it was also nice to, I was on your show and that I hired you because you're so good at sales after the podcast interview. I somehow gave you my money. I'm like, yeah, I'll hire you. I'm like, damn, she's good. Thank you. Thank you. It took a while to get there, but thank you very much. Yeah, but it's a good skill to have and it comes up in lots of different life situations. So we'll

Starting point is 00:04:02 definitely talk about that. But before we kind of get into some kind of business talk entrepreneurship, which I think is so great because it's a really, I'm excited to talk to you about that specifically because you came from the personal finance blogging world and then kind of made this shift into business and sales, which not a lot of people, I know I'm really, like a couple, but not too, too many, probably because it's not easy. But before that, I remember we were chatting before and you said that when your first kind of jobs was in recruiting, which probably seems helpful to what you're doing now, I guess. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:41 So what's really interesting was, long story short, graduated 2010, couldn't find a job. Great time to find a job, 2010. Man, there's so many of us who are like, yeah. I mean, people were just throwing dollar bills at you everywhere in 2010. So you'd walk down the street and they'd throw money at you. Totally. Sometimes I wish, I'm like, I wonder how things would be different if I graduated in 2005. Because when I was in university, I started university, I think, in 2004. And I remember hearing graduates be like, oh yeah, I got a job right out of school and making crazy money and I've got a pension and all this. I'm like, wow, I can't wait to graduate. And I graduated in 2009. Wait, you guys get pensions? Yeah. Well, not that many people do

Starting point is 00:05:25 anymore. Basically, if you were government or a really big company, maybe, but in general, they don't exist. They're kind of a few importance now. Yeah. It's not like a Canada thing. Believe me, they're pretty much dinosaurs right now. So I went about six months without being able to find any sort of job whatsoever about a year before I got that recruiting job Um, which i'll get to but in that year I was like, I don't know I make a joke that I got my quarter life crisis early because I was like barely 22 And I was freaking out I was having panic attacks because i'm like no one's telling me what to do. Yeah one and

Starting point is 00:06:03 Number two, I did all the stuff I've been told to do up until now and I'm still screwed. So what is going on here? Why do we all have the same story and why? Like, what the hell? Like, I'm so like, that's literally exactly my story. And I, it's just so frustrating because it's like, we're all smart, capable people. We got's like we're all smart capable people we got degrees like we were supposed to you know we studied in school got good grades and and then like what then yeah then we're good grades but i'm okay well you know like past you got a degree so you just need to do what i need to do to get out of here yeah yeah yeah but it actually doesn't even matter to get good grades like that's the annoying thing too like i realized that halfway through university, I'm like, oh, it actually doesn't matter. No one has ever asked me about my grades.

Starting point is 00:06:51 Yeah. And that's something I noticed when I worked in recruiting. So recruiting was a real eye-opener for me in terms of what matters and what doesn't. I'll get to that. But basically a friend during that time. And when we were in New York, a copy of that book was sitting on the coffee table. What book was it? It was called The Art of Nonconformity by Chris Gillibeau. So he handed me that book because he saw I was freaking out and he's like, hey, I think you're

Starting point is 00:07:15 going to like this book. I loved it. I didn't give it back for like four years. But basically, it was like, hey, you could kind of do whatever you want. You know, you can make money on your own. You don't have to do things the way people have told you to do it. And I'm like, why is this the first time I'm ever hearing this? Right. And thank God I found it at 22. I mean, I've had clients in their 50s and it's the first time they're ever hearing it, you know. So I Googled how to make money writing because I couldn't just sit there doing nothing with my life.

Starting point is 00:07:51 As fun as it is to go through job boards that no one's hiring and just hear nothing. I mean, I was having a ball, but I mean, I had to do something. So I Googled how to write for money because I was like, well, I could write. I did journalism in high school. I've always wanted to be a writer. I studied English literature, even though I didn't want to do anything having to do with English literature. It's just my college didn't have journalism. So I had to figure something out. It was like the closest thing I could find. I was like, okay, I guess I'm getting a degree in this. That's kind of how that happened. So I did that. And then one of my clients at the time my I do air quotes because it was like a

Starting point is 00:08:27 content farm I don't even know if those exist anymore but basically you just like it was you like crank out a bunch of articles for a big website and then you'd get paid for either ad revenue or they'd pay you like 10 bucks an article there was a time when those things were the jam and people would use them to make like passive income. And I got a little taste of that, but then they shut it down because Google was like, we hate you people. So they basically had these articles open or assignments that were open for first finance. And I thought to myself, I was like, hmm, I don't know anything about money. Money scares me because money's math. Now I thought to myself, I was like, Hmm, I don't know anything about money. Money scares

Starting point is 00:09:05 me because money's math. Now I know it's not. I know. Right. That was a big eye opener. But at the time I thought, Oh, money's math. I suck at math. I don't do math, math, and I don't get along. I'm the creative kid, but if I'm getting paid to go learn about money, then I might do it. Right. So at the time, you know, I went from making $0 to making like 10 bucks an article. Right. And then I would have to go research. But to me, that was like massive. That was huge. And I have this story about like the first month I got $5 because they'd give you like a sign up bonus, best five bucks I've ever made. Because it was at that moment that I realized, oh, you could probably do something on

Starting point is 00:09:50 your own. So I started a blog to hold myself accountable. I was just figuring out adulthood. I hadn't really honed in on the personal finance stuff yet. I was still doing a lot of career stuff. I still thought I was going to end up at a regular job and if anything, just make money off the side. So I did get a job. I was a recruiter. I worked for a company that was the middleman between job candidates and Fortune 500 companies. This was the beginning of 2011. Still not really a good time. So my boss and I, my boss ended up being sort of like a business mentor to me in a lot of ways. And I remember her telling me one time, we're on the front lines of this economic crisis because we're hearing it from the candidates and we're hearing it from the companies. After two years

Starting point is 00:10:35 of hearing all the stories, I just was super drained. And I'd also come to a lot of realizations. One, like you said, no one cares what grades you got in high school like no one ever asked any of the candidates so like what was your GPA they don't care so there was that number two I realized there was no such thing as job security because I was interviewing people every day who'd been laid off yeah and they'd been laid off because the company was running out of money or there was a merger. And then they decided everyone making above this salary is going to get fired, blah, blah, blah. And I also realized I was really underemployed, which is a lesson I learned later when I started learning more about sales and negotiation. But I knew something was off. And then on top of that, since I'd been blogging on the side the

Starting point is 00:11:25 whole time, I was starting to see people in the personal finance space starting to quit their jobs around 2012, 2013. And I'm like, wait a minute, there's something going on online, right? And it's just that the rest of the world, like all these people that I'm interviewing and all these companies that I deal with every day, they haven't caught on yet. There's something going on over here though. I'm going to quit and I'm going to go see what this is about. So I hired my first business coach because I'm a very sort of like grounded, practical person. And I don't think anybody should quit unless you've got some money in the bank already or the means to do it. Right. And she helped me sort of figure out my first very sort of like baby sales funnel. And then within six months, I was able to quit. I actually tried to quit at

Starting point is 00:12:12 four months and they wouldn't let me. So I went part time and that was a horrible decision. So I lasted like another two months before I was like, I'm done. I literally walked into the office after interviewing 10 candidates one day and I was like verbal diarrhea. I was like, I'm out. I'm done. It's over. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:34 And then three days later, I was on a plane to Portland, Oregon to go to World Domination Summit with the friend who had let me borrow Chris Guillebeau's book. Full circle. Full circle. Full circle. Then that book was sitting on the coffee table in New York. That's so crazy. Isn't it crazy?

Starting point is 00:12:52 Isn't it crazy? Yeah. Like, you're on the right track. You're supposed to be here. So then that was five years ago, actually, officially in July. And since then, I launched my book, Make Money Your Honey. And when I launched that book and I was interviewing my audience, I realized I still hadn't really owned the personal finance thing, even though I was rewriting about money. And I

Starting point is 00:13:17 realized a lot of people were really stressed about money. They really wanted to do their own thing. So I was like, oh, okay, there's something here. So then suddenly all my content that I was putting out there was money, which made sense because I was dealing with it of like, okay, I have variable income. I got to figure this out. I'm starting a business. I'm still living at home. I got nine months to figure out how to pay for my own health insurance because we have that issue in the US. Yes, you do. I was like, you got nine months before you turn 26. You got to figure out how to pay for your own health insurance. That was basically how that went. And so I really had to focus on personal finance. I was getting freelance

Starting point is 00:13:55 writing gigs, started getting little influencer campaigns here and there that actually didn't really pick up until I got really good at sales and negotiating and marketing. And then maybe about two years ago, I was like, okay, I know how to manage money, but I'm still feeling kind of broke. Yeah. And that was like a big aha moment. And I was starting to get very frustrated because I realized there was always some sort of expense like, oh, you have to go to the eye doctor because you forgot that your prescription was expiring and you need new contacts. Or you have to go to the regular doctor or you have to go get this thing taken care of or here's an expense that you weren't. But it's not like emergency expenses. It was just like regular life stuff that you just kind of forget about and there's kind of no way

Starting point is 00:14:39 to plan it. They'll tell you to put it in your calendar a year ahead of time. Who the hell actually does that? And then you forget anyway, right. So I made a realization and I was like, oh, there's always going to be something like you can't necessarily manage it or control it. So your only real solution right now is to just go learn how to make some serious money. Yeah. So that's what I did. And I just kind of like dove myself into freelance writing at first. I actually cut out all the coaching that people were asking me to do and just double down on the freelancing, made good money that way. And then started reinvesting some of that money. Once I started getting tired of that, started reinvesting because that reaches its limit. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:15:22 Started reinvesting some of that money to building systems and creating my own stuff. And I was taking constant trainings during this time. I was doing sales trainings, marketing trainings. I still do it now. I just took four courses in the last month. Yeah. Wow. You know, because I just like dive in and I do stuff.

Starting point is 00:15:40 And I was doing it the whole time. So what happened to me was I was trying to sell my own stuff at one point. And then it doing it the whole time. So what happened to me was I was trying to sell my own stuff at one point. And then it was like coaching packages. And I'd taken a couple of sales trainings. But they were very feminine oriented, which there's nothing wrong with that. But it was marketed toward women. And I did everything they said to do. And I got rejected 60 times in one month. Wow. Right. So I was like, okay, there's still something that's missing from this situation. And I felt kind of defeated.

Starting point is 00:16:09 So that was one of the reasons I doubled down on the freelancing. Go to about a year ago, and I start working with one of my mentors. And I told her, listen, I need some systems in place. Because this freelancing thing is not going to be forever. Like one good market correction and all this money is gone. Like I got to figure out how to like really monetize my own audience that I've built over the years. Right. So I took her course. Right. And I created my first offering, like real good offering, which was persuade to profit. And then we get to the

Starting point is 00:16:40 sales portion of it. Right. And I'm here thinking I suck at sales because I got rejected 60 times in one month. And then I go do it. And she's like, you're actually really good. Like, you just needed to make this one little tweak and that was it. I would have handed you the credit card information. And I was like, oh. So it's kind of like that sort of boost of confidence that I needed. And I realized that the only difference was because I'd never stopped taking trainings, you know, I started following the Grant Card was because I'd never stopped taking trainings, you know, I started following the Grant Cardone's. I started following more like the male sales stuff. And then I learned how to marry like the masculine and the feminine way of doing sales.

Starting point is 00:17:16 And then that's how I can get credit card information from someone I just interviewed for a podcast. You really did. Like how? So that's what I realized is that number one, I was already good at it. It's just that I was trying to follow like this one prescription that was like catered toward women. Right. And it was just too passive. And then when I would go to like the ones geared toward men, it was like way too aggressive. Yeah. Right. So I had to find a sort of like the middle way.

Starting point is 00:17:46 And then once I figured out that formula in the middle way, and then I had my mentor kind of like boost that confidence in me. It's been nonstop since then. I mean, I launched Persuade to Profit and we did 10K in sales the first time I launched it. Just last month, we did almost 16,000 in sales. And it's all been a matter of getting really, really good at selling, getting really good at owning my worth, and getting really good at negotiating. And then those skills transferred over into negotiating with brands. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:18:21 Wow. You mentioned that you reinvest into your business by doing lots of different trainings, hiring coaches and stuff. And I feel like for me, because I listen to other people's podcasts and I'm interested in that kind of stuff, I get targeted quite a bit on Facebook. And so I'm very aware of what's going on out there. And sometimes it just feels like everyone is a business coach, a sales coach, has some kind of course that can help you make money. My God, it seems like everyone can help you make money. How do you know what is actually decent and what isn't and what is a waste of money? Well, okay, let's use Grant Cardone as an example. So I read two of his books, started applying everything right away, saw results within 48 hours just from his books. So you're like, okay, this guy probably knows what he's doing. This guy probably knows his stuff, right? So then what do I do? He's having an event

Starting point is 00:19:11 in Miami. I fork over the credit card. I'm like, you already helped me make money. So I'm just going to go to this event, right? I wasn't expecting the event to be great for sales, but I was expecting a deal on something else, like one of his courses or something like that, right? Lo and behold, I was right. He sold his whole playbook, which goes for like five grand online. Right. So like the video, the audio, a year of mastermind calls, we got it for a thousand. Okay. Right. I had already been eyeballing it. Right. So I went right on over there and I bought it and I'm like, this thing will pay for itself in a week. Right. And that's exactly what's happened. I think part of what happens or, you know, I took another course

Starting point is 00:19:50 on high-end offerings. That one was recommended to me by a colleague. So normally when I do stuff, it's either because I've tested the stuff already and I've seen some sort of results. So I just keep going because I know it works or it's been sort of recommended to me by someone else. And even if it's shitty, right? Like I've done some that are shitty. Then the only thing that does for me is tell me like, okay, I can make millions because if this person's making money, I could seriously make some money. That's true. It's like if somehow you were convinced to buy this product and it's not a good product, then you could probably create something way, way better. Right. Exactly. And then I remember going to one like that last year. I signed up for a workshop and I thought it was a workshop to go learn how to be a better speaker.

Starting point is 00:20:34 And since I'd been being approached by brands, I thought that was what it was going to be. That's not what it was, but I didn't leave because I'm like, well, I can learn. I always have that sort of like beginner's mind. I feel like a lot of people sort of like shut down already or feel like they got swindled and get super offended. And I'm like, no, there's still something here for me to learn. Excuse me. Right. So what I learned was based on the questions that the audience was asking this person on stage, I was like, I could go make millions. Right. Cause those might be the same questions that people that you want to buy or hire you would have. Exactly. Right. So that's

Starting point is 00:21:15 what I started doing. And then once I just started focusing really on the sales and negotiating aspect of it, and it was also working smarter, smarter not harder once I started selling programs that were worth two grand right minimum yeah right then it didn't make a whole lot of sense to like go spend like rounds of edits for like a few hundred bucks yeah you know yeah so I was able to increase revenue by 40 percent and then I met a goal I had told a mentor, which was I want freelance writing to become like the extra money. And I want the real money to be coming from the trainings. And as of last month, I did that.

Starting point is 00:21:55 So I did it actually prior to that. I just didn't notice because I hadn't gone into QuickBooks. Yeah. To like look at it. And then last month it was solidified like, oh, okay, here's where the real money is coming from. Go focus your energy, effort, and money because you have to reinvest

Starting point is 00:22:12 on the real money, not the, this got you from point A to point B money. Yeah, absolutely. You talked also a bit about the idea. this is something that came up a lot at the event we went to about creating something or really making your business recession-proof, which is something that's funny that I used to think about, but I never really had that terminology, like recession-proof. Actually, that's a really great way to say it. I think as freelancers or as self-employed small business owners, whatever you want to call us, we're always kind of afraid of something happening. Like, you know, when it was 2009, which is still kind of, I think, fresh and lots of our minds of like, no one wants to spend any money and we need to kind of, you know, diversify our business. So if something does like, you know, that happened again, which it will, we are prepared. So what were, I guess, some of those things that you did or how did you kind of

Starting point is 00:23:05 create your business surrounding this idea? Like, I want to make sure that even if there's a recession, I can still earn a living. There was two things. Number one, it was building my influence. And number two is monetizing my own audience. Because if you're able to do, like, especially if you build the influence, you're going to be fine and there's going to be opportunities coming at you. So two or three years ago, people were like, okay, we'll have you build your social media following. I hired people, right? I invested money.

Starting point is 00:23:33 I started running ads. I remember going to an event once by a marketing agency and it was local here in Miami and their job was to hook up influencers with the brands. And she said something I will never forget. And she said, these companies have marketing budgets. Why don't you? Oh yeah, that's true. So I started seeing as, okay, I have a marketing budget. So money started going into Instagram. Money started going into Twitter. Money started going into Facebook ads, you know Facebook ads and me learning how to do it. This year, I hired a PR person because I just couldn't do it. I didn't have the time to do it myself anymore. All these things have paid for themselves because the thing is, if no one knows who you are, no one's going to pay you. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's true. How do you know how much

Starting point is 00:24:20 to invest in your business then? Oh, God, no one ever knows the answer to this one. I've gotten a lot more comfortable with risk. So I mean, I'll just share the numbers because I'm super transparent. Like I'm looking at my business credit card bill for this month and it's like $9,000. Hey, a lot of points, but that does include hiring a new business manager. So like the onboarding, it does include like four courses that I bought. It includes a live event that I went to and include some video work I had to get done. But the thing is I'm no longer, first of all, it's already paid for with the revenue I have coming in this month. Right. Um, but the reason I'm able to sort of take risks like that is because I know I've built the influence, number one. So like, for example, that business manager already landed me a deal.

Starting point is 00:25:10 It's only been two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I kind of look at it that way. Like I'm always looking at ROI. Like, is this person going to make my life easier or make me more money? Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:25:21 And if the answer is yes, then I invest. And I think I've also changed my money mindset a lot to the point where I'm like, I can make whatever kind of money I want. You know, like I just need to put a little extra elbow grease. I need to market a little bit more. I need to sell a little bit more, but I feel my influence and my sales chops are to a point where money's going to come in. And one of the heart, one of the reasons I had to move away a little bit from the traditional personal financing, and I still talk about it because I still think it's very important. You need to know how to manage the money that we're making. But one of the things I could never, that I struggled with so much was this idea of like

Starting point is 00:25:59 hoarding and saving money. Right. Right. That never helped me make more money. Right. The kind of scarcity mindset of, you know, living frugally and stop spending money on lattes and blah, blah, blah. And you're like, okay, good. But what if I like my green smoothies? Right. Cause I'm trying to like live healthy and like, I don't have time cause I'm running around today with like pain and an interview and sales calls or a mastermind call. right? Or what if I just don't want to live frugally? What if I like living in an expensive city, right? So I think I started sort of shifting my mindset to one of what's possible. And I feel like sometimes in the

Starting point is 00:26:37 personal finance space, there's a lack of that. And then when I started doing more sales calls and started having more conversations, I started noticing my audience have a real issue with that too, right where they're like, oh no, I can't spend any money I'm saving saving saving saving. Well, guess what? You're in the same position You were in two years ago Meanwhile, I'm over here with a six-figure business The only difference between you and me is I changed my mindset about money Right and I threw down some money to go make some more money. So I sent an email to my list and I'm like, you know, you have to change your mindset from saving pennies or a few

Starting point is 00:27:11 dollars to investing thousands of dollars so you can make tens of thousands of dollars. Right. And that was a massive eye opener for me in terms of where my energy should be going. Too much of my energy was focused on the managing and the saving. Not nearly enough of my energy was based on the earning. Do you think a lot of that is just that lots of people, they understand, okay, so I know when it comes to being good at money, I mean, saving means not spending too much money and having low expenses, blah, blah, blah. But I think i i think yeah because i mean i think lots of us in the personal finance community like started that way so we can figure out a way to like manage our dad or just manage our money or we really weren't earning that much in our jobs so we're trying to figure it out i wasn't earning

Starting point is 00:27:57 that much so i had to learn how to make it right you had to make it work you right? Yeah, to make it work. But then there is kind of a time where it's like you want more. And that was my story as well. I wanted more. So now I work for myself. But I find it is very... Yeah, there's a big shift or divide between people that are just like, no, no, no, all about couponing and living frugally. And then the people that are like, yeah, that's great and all, but also making money. And for me, it was something really difficult to get over the idea that it shouldn't feel like, you shouldn't feel bad about wanting to make more than you have. I think that's good. Obviously, if you're just not like, you know, selling drugs or part of a gang or something, if you're doing illegally and it's good.

Starting point is 00:28:43 As long as it's ethical and legal. Yeah, exactly. And also I think the idea of this hoarding money, because I used to call myself a money hoarder, I would just be absolutely terrified to spend any money. And I know a lot of that stems from my family because we lived fairly frugally. And it's good that we're family. Yeah, you know, my parents are immigrants and, you know, my family came to the U.S. I have an immigrant family. Yeah. My parents are immigrants and my family came to the US and started over with nothing. Exactly. And I think a lot of us have some kind of fear of spending money. But do you think a part of that is just,

Starting point is 00:29:15 like for me, it's like, I don't think you have a proper money management system if you're afraid to spend the money that you're saving. If you don't know how much you should be saving, because there's always a gap. It's like, do you have three to six or even nine months of your living expenses saved up for your emergency fund? Good. If you do, then you can,

Starting point is 00:29:32 whatever else is coming in, you can save or rather you can spend in a different way. I think lots of people forget that. I think we're also just not really good at like owning our desires or what it is that we want. Like it actually took me a long time to own the fact that I will spend money on things that make my life easier. I felt like that was somehow shameful or made me a bad person. Yeah, it's like you should find a way to do it for free or cheaper.

Starting point is 00:29:55 Always. Yeah, like somehow there's some sort of like, what's the word? Pride in that. And I'm like, but you just made your life way harder. Yep. You know? So when I started realizing I'm more concerned with like enjoying the one life I have to live than I am with making it more difficult. Right. That's been a really good litmus test for me too.

Starting point is 00:30:17 Of course, there's a balance to this, right? You also have the other side of the spectrum, which is like, I'm just going to like spend frivolously and not pay attention because the universe is just going to give me more money. It doesn't really work that way either. So it's a matter of finding that sort, because that's not even a grounded approach at all. It's sort of like believing in possibilities, but also having a grounded approach. So yeah, I spent $9,000 in my business last month, but I spent it on things that are going to make me more money. And the money is already coming in. I also have money in the bank. I have savings. So I have backups in case something doesn't go as planned. But I can't

Starting point is 00:31:01 live my life based on like, I'm just going to hoard all this money. I'm not going to buy that $4 latte because then I'm not going to be able to get a down payment on the house. There's no amount of $4 lattes you can cut out of your life to get a down payment on a house. Exactly. And that's why I'm a big supporter and promoter of people getting side hustles because my side hustle turned into my full-time job, which I never planned and never expected. And it's changed my life and it's been great. And for me though, like at a time when it was just a side hustle working a full-time job, it was the major factor that enabled me to really bump up my savings, start investing, going on trips and actually enjoying my life because I wasn't earning that much at my job.

Starting point is 00:31:43 And I think that a lot of people can relate to that. I wasn't either. Yeah. But still, I had a lot of guilt or just like no one was at that time too. So I guess I started my blog in like 2011. Not a lot of people were talking about making money and the people that were, were still kind of like very salesy and just kind of like icky. I'm like, Oh, I don't want to like be that person. But like why? Yeah. I mean, we've We've talked about this a little bit, but it just seems like it's a subject that comes up a lot. It's all nice and dandy to save money. People love talking about that because it's very nice and light and everyone can agree saving money is good. But when it comes to making money, a lot of people are just like, they have a lot of negative feelings about it.

Starting point is 00:32:23 There's a lot of negative connotations. A lot of it has to do with what we've been taught as the culture about making money. We're taught rich people are evil. Some people make money. Others don't. There's competition out in the world. God forbid if you're a woman and make money because then they're going to tell you that you're going to emasculate your man because you make more money. There's just all this shit that's thrown on you yeah right in terms of if you own the fact that you want to make money oh you must be a bad person because you're idealizing money so here's a really really pervasive example in western culture because there's a line in the bible that people people misquote it number one which is um but you know

Starting point is 00:33:02 judeo-christian is like a massive part of the culture in the west right um although i think this is the new testament but basically there's a line that people say oh the the um what is it money is the root of all evil yes right first of all that's not even what it says it says for the love of money is the root of all evil right and then people are like okay so if you love money, it's evil. And I'm like, that's not what it means. Like if you read the whole passage, right? If you read the whole passage, what it actually says is like, you can't make money your God, right? But the thing is, if you're hoarding and saving, you're still making money your God because you think

Starting point is 00:33:41 your security lies in that and that your security doesn't lie in God. Yeah. And you won't use money for how it is, which is, it's a tool. It's a tool to be saved and then used so you can spend it on yourself or others, helping others. I think that's a big reason too. I find personally in the personal finance community, not a lot of people talk about giving back or being charitable. No one really talks about it. I know there's not too much to talk about. It's just like, do it to be a good person. Well, no one really talks about it. And I feel like a lot of, especially like the really frugal people, they don't talk about it because maybe they don't do it because they're too afraid to even let that go. To let the money go.

Starting point is 00:34:18 Because it is almost a scary thing. I do it every year and I force myself because I still have those kind of money issues. But to pick a charity and do some research to make sure it's a good one and then give your money and never see it again and never get anything back from it, really. It's kind of a scary thing. See, I've actually always been able to do that one because I had a really good example of my parents who would like, they go to mass every Sunday and they give money, even when shit was bad. They were still finding ways to give. Same with my, yeah, my family. Yeah, for sure. I definitely had a good example in that when it comes to like causes, I don't really care.

Starting point is 00:34:52 I never really did. So that was good. Right. But I think it's because I had the example or like I, you know, I was having a conversation with a friend the other day. I'm like, listen, if I ever let a family member or a friend borrow money, it's not borrowing money. It's a gift. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I'm the same way. It's like, I don't, I don't, we don't do the whole, you only, no, that's how we're not doing disagreements. No, we, in my family, it's like, it's a gift. That's it. And

Starting point is 00:35:15 then yeah, we're not doing that. Yeah. Right. A hundred percent. You know, but I think what ends up happening is that, so that's an example, that's a total misinterpretation. Right. And I know I got like super meta there, but that's one that's very pervasive in the culture. Right. And I'm like, well, you're interpreting it the wrong way. Number one. Yeah. Number two, that doesn't even make sense. And number three, my God, he broke. Yeah. Right. Not at all. Nor does he want me to be broke because he understands that if I make money and I have influence, I can help more people, right? I can invest that money to hire a new business manager and help her pay her bills. Exactly. Exactly. Like the more, and I think that's

Starting point is 00:35:56 another thing that people need to realize is when you earn more. And I think, again, they just have this idea that if you earn more money and you are making like $100K a year, you're just living it up yourself. But just like you mentioned, it's like you made $16K, but you spent $9K for your business. I think lots of people don't actually realize. It's like, no, no, no. To maintain that level of business revenue, you have to hire people. You have to invest in your business. That costs money.

Starting point is 00:36:23 No one's just putting 16K in the bank and just walking away. I've never done that. People have business expenses. And those business expenses are... I mean, for me, I kind of look at... And I'm always very strategic in what things I do invest in or what products I do buy for my business. But I'm supporting other small businesses or other freelancers. And that makes me feel good. I mean, I had a conversation with a friend of mine and I've done a lot of coaching with her. She just moved to Miami. So we've been hanging out a lot. And she realized, oh my God, in the last few years, I've spent over $100,000 in my business and my own personal development.

Starting point is 00:36:59 I'm like, oh, I've easily spent over that $K, right? And people are like, oh my God, where do you get the 100K? You figure it out as you go. Yeah. Right. I think people also feel like there needs to be some sort of perfect plan laid out. There's no perfect plan. There's no manual for this stuff. Again, it's having that vision, but having that vision also grounded in some sort of

Starting point is 00:37:23 strategy. I wasn't spending 9k five years ago. I didn't have the 9k to spend five years ago. And five years ago, I also didn't yet understand. Five years ago, I was having a hard time spending like 500k. Probably 500k. 500k. That'll be a problem in the future. That'll be a problem in the future, would be a problem in the future right um but like 500

Starting point is 00:37:47 dollars yeah right i didn't yet understand how investing in my business and using money because money is not only meant to be saved it's also meant to be used i think people think there's like an either or situation going on here either you save it all or you spend it all. There is no either or. It's a both and. Yeah, yeah. And then that's how you have sort of a more holistic perspective. I think just in the world of personal finance, you know, we're dealing with some systemic

Starting point is 00:38:18 issues and also like no one teaches you this stuff. So a lot of people start, you know, behind the eight start behind the eight ball or they start in debt. So you kind of got to get from point A to point B and then from B to C and C to D. It's like you're moving up on the hierarchy of needs. Exactly. It's not like you just quit your job and then you start spending all your money. That is the worst thing you could do. It is a slow burn. When I tell people, they're like, oh, how long have you been doing your own business? I'm like, honestly, technically almost seven years because that's when I started my blog on top of my day job. And it was a slow transition to eventually have my own business. But that's still when I technically started my business. I created my first offering and my whole purpose

Starting point is 00:39:00 and stuff like that. I think people don't realize it's a slow process. You don't spend money you don't have. Again, it all comes back to personal finance. It really does. And again, it's a mindset thing. So I recently read a book that my PR guy recommended to me, which was The Abundance Code. And I can't remember who wrote it right now. But she goes through the seven most common cultural myths about money. One of them being, you know, money's evil or the want of money is evil. Another one, oh my God, this one irritates me because I do see a lot of people struggle with this one. You can't do good and make money. Uh-huh. Yeah. And it's like, there's a lot of, you know, really wealthy people that are doing some really amazing good things. Like, you know, completely charitable, completely like doesn't actually help them and they don't

Starting point is 00:39:47 promote it. Bill Gates gives away half his fortune to charity. And then Sarah Blakely, who I heard speak at an event a couple of weeks ago, that's where part of the 9K went. She was like, hey, I took the Bill Gates pledge. So like half my wealth goes to, you know, um, charitable causes. I give it away. You can't do that if you're not making enough money. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. So, so, so that's one, another one. What's another one? There's so many and a part of it, I mean, we could go into conspiracy theories here, but like, but we live in an imperfect world. Yeah. Right. And in an imperfect world, you're going to have people who want more power over other people. And one of the ways that you do that is by keeping them

Starting point is 00:40:32 disempowered. And one of the ways that we've really been disempowered as a society is with money. Because if people really understood money, and not just the saving managing part of it, learn for my own use, which is why I started my blog was so I can learn it personally. That's totally why I started too. I think most people do it. Completely selfish reason. Yeah. Like I just, yeah. I'm just like, I just want to, you know, learn it myself. And then I'm like, oh, there's actually a lot of other people that I talk to all the time that like literally still that will, you know, I'll just like be on the street or go to an event and chat with them. They're like, oh, I'm terrible with money. And I'm like, okay, I need to, I want to have a business

Starting point is 00:41:29 where I can help the people that think that they're bad at money because guess what? No one's born bad at money. It is something that you can learn and switch like tomorrow. I need to do something about this because I don't think, I mean, still there's a lot of work to be done, especially I feel like, well, and the US too, just like with how the financial services community is. I mean, the people that, you know, a lot of people do want help and they go to banks and those people are selling products. They're not selling advice. So it's like, Oh gosh, there's, there's a lot of people that need help. And I don't think they're going to the right places to figure out how to make that a business. You know, and I have this think they're going to the right places. So I need to figure out how to make that a business.

Starting point is 00:42:05 You know, and I have this sort of unique perspective, I feel like, which I'm starting to, I didn't even realize it until my mid twenties. Right. Which was the fact that, you know, my parents fled communism. They fled the Cuban revolution, my grandparents, and then my parents were children. And then when you're raised in that kind of a community, basically you're taught to trust no one. So if you think the government's going to take care of this for you or a bank is going to take care of this for you or that someone else is going to take care of this for you, you're dead ass wrong.

Starting point is 00:42:34 Right. So there's this sort of idea of self-reliance that is created because of the experience that they had. And because of the experience that they have, there's also a mistrust of the experience that they had. And because of the experience that they have, there's also a mistrust of the institutions. Like they're not your friend, right? And there's a sort of acceptance of it too. It is what it is and you got to figure it out. Yeah, absolutely. So we've been chatting for a while. So before I let you go, I want to make sure that everyone knows what are some of the offerings that you offer if someone's listening. Because I know I have lots of listeners who are thinking of starting their own businesses or they have a side hustle wanting to get to that next

Starting point is 00:43:13 level. Yeah. So for those who are just starting out, I have a free webinar, which is how to make your first 50K as an influencer, even if no one knows who you are. So you can go to amandabea.com forward slash influencer. For those who are side hustling and have some ideas, then they're a perfect fit for my Persuade to Profit program. This is my six-week business training program where I take people in that situation and I'm like, all right, let's get really crystal clear on what's going on in the market. Let's figure out the offering. Let's figure out a marketing plan and a sales funnel for that. So they'd be a much better fit for that. And then students who've gone through that have been able to land like $15,000 contracts in a few weeks.

Starting point is 00:43:52 Yeah. You know, because they just got really crystal clear on what was going on. And then for those who already have an offering and they're just like, okay, like my sales really suck or I'm really uncomfortable about this. Then I have, you're going to love this name or I'm really uncomfortable about this, then I have, you're going to love this name because I came up with the name, right? It's called the money pop and sales training. I love it. That's so cute. And then right now it's an intensive with me, which Jessica did. I did. Right. And then we're also doing an on-demand version, which will be coming out around September I want to

Starting point is 00:44:25 say right and then basically what that does is teach you how to have the actual conversation because what I've noticed is a lot of people were in the same position I was in whether it's like way too passive like you're not even asking for the money yeah you're not even asking so do you buy this or whatever or you're giving away like way too much information for free and you're not seeing the money because you don't know how to have that conversation. Or the other extreme is you do a really like asshole move, which is a very old school way of doing things, an aggressive way of doing things, which is like sending someone an

Starting point is 00:45:03 email telling them their website sucks and that you can fix it for them. Like that doesn't work either. No, it doesn't. So like, why do I still get those emails? Your website does not suck. Your website does not suck, Jessica. I know. I just got the craziest cold email the other day. And at first it was like, it was quite nice. And then I like read rest of it. I'm like, this is so bad. Who did they hire? It was some kind of women in entrepreneurship company or whatever in Toronto. And it sounded like at first that they wanted to hire me to speak. Then it turned into, oh, so we would love if you could...

Starting point is 00:45:41 And here's a bunch of things that we're asking. Do you want to sponsor our event? Do you want to come to our event? Do you want to buy something from us? I'm like, we just met and this is, you're already asking me for my stuff. I don't even know who you are. There's a way of doing it, right? That is not the way. So Persuade to Profit sets you up with the system and the offering and the marketing. So you start building that rapport and that relationship, which is a part of sales. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:08 And then the money pop and sales training takes you to the next level, which is like, okay, rapport is already built, right? I've got the relationships. I just can't land the deal. And obviously it's because you have not been properly taught how to have that conversation or how to hold that container. And you could also have some of your own stuff in the way, like maybe you just don't want to own the fact that you want to make lots of money. So the conversation makes you uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:46:34 Yeah. But yeah, if anyone's listening, I did Amanda's thing and I really liked it. Like I really did. She paid for herself in a week. So nothing that matters. But I mean, it was nice. Like, oh, okay, cool. It's nice to know that you can invest money in yourself or your business and get your money back and then some. Yeah. And it translates over. Yesterday, I was helping a friend negotiate a contract because she was like in the middle of a of a let's say negotiation with a brand and there was like one understanding but she gets the contract and it's like this whole other thing. And I'm like that stuff you should be getting paid for. Let's learn how to have this conversation. Right. So even if you're in more like traditional settings or you're working,

Starting point is 00:47:26 you're not necessarily selling an offering to your own audience. Like you still have to like be your own advocate and know how to do that. And once you're able to do that and really stand in that power of what it is that you offer, not only do you significantly increase your chances of getting the money, right? But you also increase your chances of getting the money, right? But you also increase your chances of helping the other person. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cool. Where, where can people find more information about you in some of these offerings?

Starting point is 00:48:00 So you can find everything you need to know about me at AmandaAbeya.com. I also have the make money, your honey podcast, which is freaking everywhere. My website, uh, YouTube. freaking everywhere. My website, YouTube. Oh, I launched it, Jessica. Yeah. I'm on there. It's coming out in a couple weeks. Yeah. Right?

Starting point is 00:48:12 YouTube, Spotify, SoundCloud, Stitcher, iHeartRadio. We're everywhere. We're everywhere. So I'm easy to find. And then just like Google my name, Amanda Obeyo on my social media is going to populate. And Instagram is my personal favorite. Yeah, you're really good at it. Yeah, I enjoy it. I took a class on that last month.

Starting point is 00:48:36 Did you? Oh, that's smart. I need to up my Insta game. I just don't. That was part of the 9,000 was an Instagram class. My friend runs a – so, see, here's another thing. Here's how I found that class. Yeah. I have a friend who runs a magazine, right? And she has, like, 200-something thousand followers. And, you know, and she'll do, like, sample sales at her apartment on Miami Beach. And, like, you better get there early.

Starting point is 00:49:00 Yeah. Right? From all the stuff that the fashion designer sent her, like, you better get there, like. Yeah. Because it's just like it goes nuts. So she created an Instagram course, right, to teach people like how to build that engagement, how to build. So I know her, right? I know her magazine. I know what she's been able to do, right? I know she knows her stuff. So I bought the course. And there you go. And was it good? It was really good. Yeah, it was really good. My engagement's up. I'm finding new people, already got a brand partnership. So these things pay for themselves. And I think people just don't know the difference between spending and investing. And that was definitely a lesson I had to learn for myself. That and the fact that I can make

Starting point is 00:49:55 whatever kind of money I want if I have the skill set to be my own advocate. Yeah. Yeah. And put the time in because these things do not happen overnight. No, no. I've been at this since 2010, y'all. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Let's be real here. Thank you so much, Amanda, for joining me on the show. Oh, thanks for having me on. And that was episode 171 of the Momente podcast with the wonderful Amanda Abeya. You can check her out on her website, AmandaAbeya. her last name is spelt a b e l l a just in case uh you want to know um and uh yeah she's amazing you can find more information about the her and kind of the program she offers and um you know check out her instagram and all that good stuff

Starting point is 00:50:39 in the show notes just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 171 and you will not be disappointed. Hopefully this episode made you feel as jazzed as I feel now after talking to her because she's just the best. So much energy, so much positive energy. I wish I could just bottle that up and then sell it. But you know what I mean. Anyways, so I have a few important things to let you know about. So don't go away. Just a few words I want to share about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by FabFitFun. If there's one thing I love, it's saving money. I honestly can't remember the last time I bought something that wasn't on sale or had a promo code that made the price go down. And that's exactly why FabFitFun is right up my alley.

Starting point is 00:51:25 Not only do you get eight to 10 full-size products for beauty, fashion, fitness, and lifestyle, but you only pay a fraction of the price it would cost you to buy them individually yourself. I'm talking about getting $200 worth of goodies for only $49.99. And right now, FabFitFun is giving all Mo Money Podcast listeners

Starting point is 00:51:43 a special $10 off promo code to try it out. All you have to do is go to FabFitFun.com and use promo code MONEY to claim the discount. Once again, go to FabFitFun.com and use promo code M-O-N-E-Y and get $10 off your purchase. Okay, so first things first. Tonight, I'm doing my side hustle webinar. There are a few spots left at the moment as of this recording. So if you're interested in signing up, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash side hustle webinar.

Starting point is 00:52:15 But even if you're too late for the live webinar, I will then kind of switch the landing page so you can sign up to watch the replay for a limited time. I'll leave it up. You can sign up to watch the replay for a limited time. I'll leave it up. You can sign up and watch the replay for a limited time. So again, go to jessicamorales.com slash side hustle webinar. It's free, but it's informative and I think you're going to like it. Because again, it's in the same realm of the topic we were talking about, which is earning. Side hustles, man. You need to make some extra money? Well, go get it. There is money to be made. You just have to put the work into it and figure out, hmm, what am I good at? And what do people need help with? And how can I make that into a bit of a business for myself? So check that out.

Starting point is 00:52:55 Again, I'll put some more info in the show notes for you. Also, if you're not on my email list, make sure to get on there, jessicamarose.com slash subscribe. Because last week, I sent out an email saying that I am going to be making an appearance in Ottawa in November. To be specific, the weekend of November 10th, 11th, 12th. So I'm going to be there for a speaking gig. But I'm like, hey, maybe as I'm there already, I can do a little bit of a money meetup, a little millennial money meetup, if you will. So if you're in the Ottawa area, hit me up. I get on my email list so you can get informed, but also just email me, jessica at jessicamorehouse.com and let me know that you would be interested in possibly attending this meetup that I have yet to organize.

Starting point is 00:53:48 I've already gotten a bunch of emails from people, so I'm definitely going to do it. Just something cash, just meet up, hang out, get to know each other, talk some money, have a good time. So yeah, so I'm excited for that. I've never been to Ottawa, surprisingly, terrible Canadian, but I'm really excited to check it out, check out the Parliament building and, you know, War Museum and all that good stuff. Very excited. Is there anything I am missing? I feel like for the minute, no. I've given you a couple exciting things in the queue. I've got more exciting things in the queue. But again, the best way to find out these exciting things I've always got going on is getting on my email list because things, you know, I record these in advance, guys. So, you know, there you go. Thanks for listening. I appreciate all the reviews and

Starting point is 00:54:33 ratings I've been getting. If you haven't given me one yet, I would really appreciate it if you just took two seconds out of your day, gave me a rating or review on iTunes to let me know what you think and I'll read it out loud on a future episode. But, you know, if you have already, no big deal. I'm just going to catch you back here next Wednesday when I have a fresh new episode for you. All right. Have a good rest of your week. This podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network find out more at women in media.network

More Money Podcast - 171 Why You Should Feel Good About Making Money - Amanda Abella, CEO & Founder of Make Money Your Honey

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