More Money Podcast - 181 How to Get Happy with Your Money - Melissa Leong, Author of "Happy Go Money" & Money Expert

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, hello, hello. And long time no talk. I know, I know. Where the hell have I been? And if you're a long time listener, you know, you know that every new year I usually start a new season of the Mo Money Podcast the first week of January. And no, I didn't really tease when I was going to restart the podcast in December, which I usually do. And then I did not do anything in January. And I've been getting a ton of messages and emails being like, where are you? Are you, is the podcast gone? Like what's going on? I'm sorry. I just, uh, quite honestly, I just didn't really get my stuff together in time. I had this episode recorded before I left for Christmas holidays. And then I just, I had, I was just busy. Like, honestly, I was just busy. I also did take some like proper

Starting point is 00:00:43 time off during Christmas time. And, um, and then January rolled around. I'm like, oh, crap, I have one episode. So that's what I've been busy doing all of January is making sure I have so many amazing interviews for the moment podcast this season. So just so you know, this show, this season of the show will run from now until, you know, early or mid June. So there's going to be plenty of episodes for you to listen wherever you are. And I'm so excited to be back. I've got some great interviews. This one's a great one. It's with the wonderful Melissa Leong. You can probably see her all the time if you want on TV. She's on the social a lot. But she just came out with a new book called Happy Go Money, which I love because it's all about happiness, positivity, and finance. Because surprise, a lot of the time when we think about

Starting point is 00:01:39 money, it's usually in a very negative context. Or even if you read some of the older personal finance books from some of those, you know, kind of the OG personal finance experts, man, they can feel really naggy and judgmental and negative. You know what I'm talking about, right? So she is exploring in her new book how mindfulness and positivity and just like kind of more of the psychology and behavioral economics kind of play into how we manage our money. And she gets really personal with the book. It's really great. So we're going to talk about a lot of that stuff in this episode and you're going to love it. And I can't wait to share it with you. But before I get straight into this interview and then we'll chat after. So stick around, actually, make sure you listen to the full

Starting point is 00:02:29 episode until the end, because I'm going to do a little giveaway contest. You're going to find out details at the end of the episode. But before I get to this interview with Melissa, here's just a few words about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, CDIC. Have you ever been told to be careful where you put your money because if your bank goes under, you'll lose everything? Here's the thing. That person has no idea what they're talking about. Thanks to the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, our savings are protected. You see, CDIC insures deposits at its member financial institutions around the country in the event of a failure. They currently

Starting point is 00:03:11 protect over $792 billion in deposits. And in their 52-year track record, they've handled over 40 failures. Guess how many people lost their protected deposits during those failures? Zero. Not a single dollar of deposits under CDIC protection was lost. You may be wondering, awesome, how do I make sure my savings are protected? That's easy. Since coverage is free and automatic if you bank with a member of CDIC, just check your bank's website to see if they have that purple CDIC logo in their footer. Or visit cdic.ca to find their full members list. To learn more about how CDIC protects you and your savings, visit cdic.ca. Once again, that's cdic.ca. Thanks, Melissa, for joining me on the Mo Money

Starting point is 00:04:01 Podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. I know. It's a long time coming. I don't know if you know this, but I always have kind of a list of guests that I'm like, I should reach out to. I want to have them on the show eventually. And you've been on that list for a while. And I just never reached out to you. I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:04:18 I don't know why. It's not that I didn't want to. I'm just like, I'll get to her. And then it's so great that you reach out. You're like, I have a book coming out. I'm like, this is perfect timing. Cause now we have something amazing to talk about. Yes. And I'm excited and I'm glad that we could hook up at financial conferences and have coffee and chat. And so I feel like this is a good time for us to chat.

Starting point is 00:04:40 Absolutely. So I was telling you before I hit the record button that you did a stellar job speaking at the Canadian Personal Finance Conference this year. Loved, loved, loved, loved what you were talking about. And it's very much in relation to the book you have coming out called Happy Go Money. First, I'd love to chat, where did that name come from? I love it. It's adorable. It makes me smile when I say it, but where did that come from? Okay. That name is actually the suggestion that Bruce Celery gave me. So money guru and podcast host extraordinaire Bruce Celery is, I think I've forced him to be my mentor over the years. I just randomly messaged him. I was like, I'm having a really hard time coming up with book titles.

Starting point is 00:05:30 And I mean, anytime, I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, you get it. You know, when you're coming up with product titles, when you're coming up with your company titles, you do this massive list of all these things that you could possibly name your babies and then whittle it down and do, you know, you test it, your product testing by asking your friends and family. And I couldn't find one that really resonated. I actually wanted, I originally had a title that has a swear in it.

Starting point is 00:05:59 Oh, I know. I have so many of those in my head. And I always tell people like, isn't that great? They're like, that's awful. They don't like the ones with the curse words in. I don't know. I have so many of those in my head. And I always tell people, isn't that great? They're like, that's awful. They don't like the ones with the curse words in it. I don't know. I think it's great though. There's some good ones with curse words out there. The title that I had in my mind was, I'm not going to say it, but it's F the Joneses actually. Yeah. I would have bought that book, but some people don't like the F words. It's a chapter title. It's still in the book. Oh, good. It's still an idea that I talk about, but Happy Go don't like the chapter title. It's still in the book. It's still an idea that I talk about, but, uh, happy go money, uh, Bruce celery actually came up with. So now I owe him coffees for the rest of our lives. Damn it. Yeah. I got a deal though. So yeah, you probably

Starting point is 00:06:38 did. That's probably it. No, it's a great title. I think it really, it's a great way to basically like the two big themes from your book is happiness and money. So, you know, you just tie in one little word in there and bam, you've got like a really short, but very descriptive title for your book, which is awesome. Yeah, I'm glad. I mean, I wanted people to see it and immediately think, well, I know what I'm going to get. And that's what this is. I mean, it's all about trying to use your money to make sure that you are the happiest you can be in your life. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit about that.

Starting point is 00:07:08 Because when you were speaking at CPFC, one of the things that you said was you can buy happiness or something like that, which I thought was amazing but kind of controversial because some people were like, no. You know, there's so many negative connotations when it comes to money. Like people like to take that. I think there's a Bible verse, it's like money is the root of all evil. Money is like you could be greedy. Like there's a lot of negativity that's tied up with money. So why did you really want to talk about how money is actually very much correlated to happiness

Starting point is 00:07:37 and you can potentially use money in order to gain it? So when you mentioned that sentence, I was thinking about this yesterday. I was doing another interview and someone was talking about that, that old adage, the money is the root of all evil. And that's because we basically, we ascribe that meaning to money. Money is just a tool, right? It doesn't have any, it shouldn't be positive. It shouldn't be negative. But the way that we frame it is often, it often colors how we handle money, how we collect money, how we view money in our lives to try to be satisfied and happy, then really how are, how should we use this tool to get to the end goal? Right. And I think a lot of people also get confused thinking that money is the end goal. And that's something that I used to think, cause I didn't grow up with a lot of money. So I always

Starting point is 00:08:39 thought, okay, so the goal when I'm an adult is to try to achieve more money that will, but I didn't ever think of money as the tool. I always thought it was the end goal. Right. No, you and everybody else, right? That's why we all play the lottery. That's why at the end of all of our fantasies, the Disney princess ends up, you know, she's never broke and living in her basement,

Starting point is 00:08:59 dreaming of this handsome pension, right? She's living in the castle and has infinite shoes. It's all about fortune and materials. And that's why we also idolize celebrities, right? They seem to have it all. And you think, well, one day I want to be there where all of my life's problems will be solved. And I think people think that if they have enough money, then they will be a perfect 10 on the happiness scale. And I know that because a lot of my book, it's not, I mean, it might sound like a journey that we're going to

Starting point is 00:09:31 take with Deepak Chopra and Oprah, spiritually go on this excursion into our inner self. But really, I use a lot of science, right? I'm a journalist by career, so I need facts. I want to back that up with research. And research has shown that no matter what amount of money you have, you always want more. There was a Harvard researcher who asked people, hey, rate your happiness on a one to 10. And you could ask your listeners, I think right now, the number between one and 10. And if you're anything less than a 10, then how much more money do you need to be that perfect 10? And the researcher found that no matter who he asked, whether they were middle income earners or high net worth UK residents, they all said two to three times more money. Wow. That's a lot more money.

Starting point is 00:10:20 Two to three times. So if you had one in 1 million in the bank, you wanted three, but if you had three, you wanted nine and so on and so on and so on it's kind of it's kind of a curse actually uh it's just the uh but we think oh man we're just never satisfied but that is also a there's there's science that backs that up we it's because we get used to things as human beings we're adaptable and that's this amazing quality about this is that we can adapt to good and bad. And so, you know, a million dollars you could adapt to and then it would become normal. And would you always stay at that high? No, no, you wouldn't.

Starting point is 00:10:59 No. Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that because actually after the conference, I came back home. It was kind of the beginning of the November, the month. And so this is when me and my husband have our money meeting and talk about money because we're nerds. I love it. I know.

Starting point is 00:11:12 It's very important. It is. And so I was looking at kind of the projections for how much I will earn for this year. And I basically hit my big lofty goal of how much I want my business to earn. Congratulations. Yeah, but I wasn't happy about it. Like that's the weird thing. I much I wanted my business to earn. Congratulations. Yeah, but I wasn't happy about it. That's the weird thing. I was talking to my husband, Josh. I'm like, I don't know why, but I'm kind of sad about it. I don't know why that is. Do you know why that is? It's like I hit that goal and I wasn't happy. I can tell you what the research shows why that might be. Yes, please. Please. I need some help. Well, there is, uh, I, I have

Starting point is 00:11:47 interviewed psychologists who work with celebrities who work with famous athletes and after they win the Oscar, after they win, uh, you know, the great cup, they're depressed, depressed after, um, because you know, happiness researchers like positive psychologists, they actually tell you that your happy place, your, your Zen place is the, is the work is the work that you find fulfilling. It's having purpose. It's having a goal. So when you're working towards your goal, making a certain amount for your business, that's you doing your thing. You're like, I'm like, I'm killing it. This is good. And once you get there, you have these expectations. And obviously happiness is relative.

Starting point is 00:12:27 It's about your expectations. And you expect that you're going to hit this goal and you're just like, and then you get there and you're like, well, what's next? You know what I mean? It's that, okay, you need this. You need this something. And there is research that shows that if you want to spend money on happier things, one of the things to buy is anticipation. So it's kind of like when you were a kid and you're super

Starting point is 00:12:50 excited about Christmas. Now in our life, we can buy in anticipation. We can pay for something now and enjoy it later. Or we can save for something and enjoy it later. And so that's why sort of working towards the goal is that's the part that's really joyful, right? But looking forward to a vacation is actually more joyful than the part after the vacation. Or on the vacation. Sometimes you're like, this is fine. Maybe I'm just like, I have high expectations because that's like, I love the anticipation so much, especially like me and my husband went to Mexico for a week last year during the winter. And it was, I was so excited leading up to it when we got there, it was great, but it's not like a mate. It's never amazing. I have really high expectations. I think though,

Starting point is 00:13:32 that's my problem. Your expectations, right? I really do need to do that. But no, what you said is completely true because this happened exactly last year as well. It was like one of the first years that I made, maybe it was like second year, I made like a full on vision board and I achieved a lot of the things on the vision board. I should have been very happy about it. But after New Year's, so it's like, all right, I did it. I survived 2017. I hit a lot of my goals. The day after New Year's, so I guess New Year year's day i was really depressed like i literally just like had to watch movies and just like not talk to anybody all day i'm like this is weird this is really weird and it seems so weird right so ridiculous yeah it's like what's wrong with me

Starting point is 00:14:15 it's great what's going on um but yeah that's why there's a lot of uh you know positive coaches and and success coaches that also say that you have to reward yourself as you go. So sort of small rewards. I'm not saying if you save a bunch of money, go on a shopping spree, yay me, but you know, small little rewards to give your brain that happy feedback. And then as you go, you also have to push, push some of those goals, create some new ones, not necessarily push your goals even further back, but even create a new one to look forward to. So you always have something to look forward to, you know, you paid off this debt. And when that day that when that day comes, yes, but maybe when you're almost close to paying off the debt, if you want to ensure happiness and to

Starting point is 00:14:56 continue that motivation, maybe create a side goal, another money goal that you can also continue to work on. Yeah, well, that's why usually when I work with clients where I'm talking to people and they're like, I really want to pay off debt. I'm like, great. But are you also saving money? Are you also investing money? I usually think it's not the best idea to just focus on debt repayment because usually you'll get back into debt once you get to zero because you don't actually have any good saving skills. But if you do kind of multiple goals, like you're also saving, you know, into your emergency fund, you're also investing, you've got these other things going. So once you are debt free, you've still got this journey that you're on. Right, there's more, there are other things in life, I think we get tunnel focused on,

Starting point is 00:15:36 let's use the example of talking to a client and saying, Hey, you know what, you need to get that debt down it is totally uh screwing up the rest of your finances and it's putting your future in danger so here's our budget we need to talk about this and not talk about savings and not talk about investments not talk about anything else in life again i i don't i i've heard from people say that it's not necessarily 100 effective because you're not also dealing with the root cause of why somebody is in debt in the first place. So you ask, what are the reasons why we, what do you, something that I always say is, okay, how do you use money in your life to be happier? And some people use money to reduce pain, right? You buy when you're stressed,

Starting point is 00:16:26 you buy when you're depressed and it fills you with happy endorphins because that's what that does. You buy and you get this burst of dopamine in the brain and it feels good, but then that feeling dissipates. And so people get into this debt cycle and because they're trying to fill the void and then they have a financial coach come in and say, here's some tools, but there's no actual insight into, well, he's in pain. And so even if you give him tools, once he's in pain again, the habit will be to spend. Yeah. And that's, I feel like maybe not an epidemic, maybe that's a bit too big, but there's like so many people I know that is like the root of the reason when you talk to them, like, why are you over spending or why are you, why are you spending on stuff that I know you don't care about? It's

Starting point is 00:17:12 there, there's a reason it's usually to fill a void and stuff. And when I kind of look back on my own life, I'm like the times that I overspent and I look at my wife, what was I doing is because I was in pain. I was hurting. I was depressed. I was trying to make me feel good. And that's also like a big reason why at the same time, I was also like overeating and overdrinking. You're just trying to medicate pain by doing all sorts of things that make you feel good in the moment. And that's just one thing. I mean, some other people spend money or they try to buy a sense of self-worth. And so you're feeling insecure, you're feeling not good, or your boyfriend just broke up with you and you need to show him that you're the shite. And so you go and you buy this thing that you don't necessarily need or want or

Starting point is 00:17:54 should, but it means something. You've made it mean something to you, right? Or you're doing it because you're trying to keep up with the Joneses, which everybody says, which is why there's a chapter in my book called F the Joneses. And I know that seems obvious. And I know people say, I know it's hard to, you know, you get caught up in what everybody else does. And that's totally normal. I mean, you're human. And as human beings, there is actual positive use to be able to look at our peers and kind of gauge how we are in society. There's a reason why we have that impulse, but it doesn't always serve us.

Starting point is 00:18:34 No. And I feel like it's gotten harder too, because it's not just like looking at your neighbor anymore. It's like anything on the internet. It's like always in our face. Yes. And we're not, I think we're media savvy. I think we're intelligent, but sometimes when you're tired or you're on the train and you're looking, you forget that internet frigging lies. Okay. So you can rent a private jet for $250 just to take Instagram photos in. You may, uh, you may choose to go to um the bellagio versus some other budget hotel on the strip in vegas but if you go to the bellagio you're going to check in on facebook so everybody knows yeah but just as meant they hold those two like that and another budget hotel

Starting point is 00:19:20 may hold the same number of people but you're more likely to brag if you have the fancy car. So that's what you're going to see online. And so for me, I do, I get into that vortex. I get sucked into the mad comparison game and I have to put a tracker on my phone. I got to really limit myself. Or if I'm finding myself feeling crappy about, oh, well, this person is this or this person is this, I have to quickly think, have to quickly think okay no no no I need to compare myself to someone I admire what are the actual qualities I admire not necessarily the beautiful chandelier in their home but maybe the the hard work and the hustle and the discipline that they have to build a great business which allows them to buy things that they care about I think that's a really great strategy too it It's really looking at, and I probably have to do a nice little cleanup on my Instagram and Twitter, but just if you find yourself comparing yourself to people and not feeling good about it, maybe

Starting point is 00:20:11 take an audit of like, why is that? And see if they're not adding to you in a positive way, if they're not inspiring you and motivating you, maybe unfollow and then find people that you can look up to in a good way. It's like, they're doing some awesome stuff that's motivating me to also do awesome stuff, not make me feel like crap. Cause I'm not doing as much. Right. You're trying to find people who share your values and people who are uplifting. And I mean, I think as you get older and when you have kids, you have less time to deal with other people's crap and that, you know, friends of yours that don't necessarily hold you up, they kind of fall away. But when you

Starting point is 00:20:45 spend time with, this is according to research, when you spend time with people who are judgy, it actually trains your brain to judge yourself more harshly. And so, you know, sometimes we get fixated with negativity and people that you surround yourself with, they talk about money too. And it's usually, well, people in my life usually bitch about money or they brag about weird things, like things that they bought or things that they have. And that sticks like negative, negative thoughts are super sticky. And that had, there's a reason for that because we as cavemen needed to remember that, Hey, around this bend, there's a saber tooth tiger versus there's good berries there. It was for survival. And so anytime you have a negative thought about your own money, anytime you have a negative thought about your own situation or your life

Starting point is 00:21:37 or whatever, you actually need to counter it. According to research, three positive thoughts. I love that ratio. That's the ratio to reprogram the neural pathways in your brain for positivity. Three to one, every single time. So find a buddy, find a best friend and hold yourselves to that. As soon as somebody says something negative about money, like, oh, I could be saving more or whatever it is, have the other person say, hey, yo, stop. Give me three. Yeah. Give me three. Oh my gosh. I love that. I feel like I definitely need to implement, implement that with my husband. Cause I do find, and I try to, when I do find myself complaining and I could just see in his eyes, he's like, oh my God, you're complaining for no reason.

Starting point is 00:22:13 This isn't important. Right. But it's like, I'm like, uh, I, I try to be like, okay, let's just realize how ridiculous it is that I'm complaining. Like I have a lot of great things in my life. So let's also acknowledge the good. And I feel like that's a practice we all need to be better at because it's very easy, just like you said, to be judgmental and to, you know, be negative. It's easier. It's just easier. It's so hard to actually be happy and positive. It's like way more effort. Right. And so that was the thing that surprised me. I mean, I don't know how much people know about my own personal journey, but that was the reason for me writing my book was to help people realize that it is a bit of work to be happier, but you can do the work. And no matter what happens, you actually can. And so I start my book off with a very personal story of where I had, and I shared this in my speech. So I just got married. I was trying to build a life with my husband. I had bought this townhouse in the suburbs and I thought, this is great. I'm happily ever after. Let's do this. And we're going to have kids.

Starting point is 00:23:24 And my husband went on a ski trip and he got a prescription for sleeping pills. He doesn't take Tylenol. He doesn't do any drugs of any sort. He had a terrible, terrible reaction to the medication and became horribly depressed and terrified by anxious thoughts and suicidal ideations. He was eventually hospitalized. And during that time, I was working at the Financial Post and writing about personal finance. But in my off hours, I was basically making it my life's mission just to be happy because I wanted to find happiness for myself and my husband.

Starting point is 00:23:59 And so I did everything I could think of. I went on wellness retreats. I went to Buddhist temples. I listened to hours of lectures from resilience gurus, from Buddhist monks, from politicians, psychologists. And I read, I heard dozens of books. I bet you have a great book recommendation list. I do actually. I do. We'll come back to it. Remember that and ask me about my book list for happy books. And I came across so much research and none of the research talked about money. But I knew that everybody was trying to buy happiness through money based on everything

Starting point is 00:24:37 I was writing about on a daily basis at the financial post. So I went on this journey and I wanted to gain some lessons about, well, how then can we be happier with our life, truly happier, did all of them together kind of, kind of, uh, help you realize, Oh, I think I kind of know how to gain happiness. Or was there one thing that kind of stuck out? You're like, wow, that really worked for me. Um, one of the things that works for a lot of people is the idea of no victimhood. So I had a post-it note on my mirror when I was going through the worst times with my husband and it said no victimhood because So I had a post-it note on my mirror when I was going through the worst times with my husband and it said, no victimhood. Because studies show that when you see yourself as a victim, you feel less empowered. You don't have any control over what's happening to you. And to be happy, to do the work, to find a more fulfilling, balanced life, you have to feel a sense of control over that,

Starting point is 00:25:47 right? No matter what happens, life will be crappy, but you have to feel that in some way, well, I can figure out how to react to it, how to handle it. And so that's probably the first thing. And then after that, it is. It is really reprogramming your brain to be a little bit more focused on what you have versus what you don't have. Gratitude exercises are really great. Finding meaningful relationships, spending a lot of time on experiences, spending money on experiences that bond you to other people. Charity work, Even if it's not necessarily formal charity work, it's kindness. So basically I have a note in my book where it says every single day, start the day with doing something kind for somebody else. So I used to go

Starting point is 00:26:36 into the office and I would write somebody a note right away. I would either tweet and say, that was a great story. Why are you so much smarter than me? Or that was one of my reporter colleagues, or I would just write somebody and say, thank you for something just meaningful, purposeful kindness that gives you the single most powerful boost in your mood in a day. And so there was that. And then there are other things that you can spend your money on to be happier, like time, people who value time over money are happier. And so I try to spend money. And I'm cheap, so I don't do that.

Starting point is 00:27:11 I think, oh, I'm not paying somebody else to do that. I can spend hours upon hours doing it myself. But it's not useful for your happiness, you know? And so I just thought, well, I self-published two teen novels several years ago. I was trying to save money everywhere. And I thought, I'm going to learn how to format my book. I'm going to learn HTML and all these ridiculous things to save money. And I should have just paid somebody $200 to do it because I could have been using that

Starting point is 00:27:38 time in so many more effective and fulfilling ways. So yes, put a value on your time that will make you happier. Yes. And I think, yeah, I mean, that just sounds like me. I mean, I know how to, I learned HTML because I'm like, I'm not going to pay someone to make my website. I'll learn how to make my website myself. I'm like, right. But if you enjoyed it, I did. To be fair, I did. I did. That's different. You know, that's doing something that you gain a skill and then you can use that skill in the future. And that sounds reasonable,

Starting point is 00:28:11 but it's something that you're just agonizing over and you think, this is bull. Why am I doing this? And maybe rethink about it. Yeah. Well, I think it also, especially since I feel like I'm just like you, super cheap, super frugal. I've always been reading books.

Starting point is 00:28:29 And within the personal finance community for a while, I have my own money issues with basically actually spending money. I don't know what it is, but it's really hard for me to let go of it. But I think what I'm kind of trying to do now is just being more intentional with how I'm spending my money. And that's making me actually happier. So instead of feeling bad because of, oh, you're spending money and spending money is bad, just being like, no, no, no, I have a real purpose for spending this money. This is the result I'm probably going to get. And I never really regret it. And I think it's, I spend my money in a different way. I don't really buy

Starting point is 00:29:00 objects or stuff so much like sometimes I do, but a lot of it is focused on experiences or hiring people to help me with something that I want to improve upon in my professional life or my personal life. So I think we talked about this when we had a lunch a little while ago about how I'm like, I want to dress better, but I freaking hate shopping so much. And I actually just had a conversation with a friend who's a stylist and I think she's, I'm going to hire her to help me. And you know what? It's like, once we talked about that, she's like, oh, I can help you. And she had all these ideas. I'm like, oh my God, I feel so much better.

Starting point is 00:29:28 And I'm happy to spend that money. I'm happy to earn that money and spend it on something that's like, that's amazing. That's the way that is exactly the way to do it. And I'm not saying we're not talking about spending money that we don't have. We're talking about, yes, we siphon money out to pay our expenses and our bills and to keep the charity and to our money goals, you know, our priorities like retirement and education for our kids. But then there's this fun money that hopefully you can set aside because everybody needs a little bit of money to enjoy. And so, you know, be purposeful with that money. You know,

Starting point is 00:30:02 am I spending in a way that is in line with my values? It sounds like you've got it, you know, experiences on, uh, time savers. That's definitely, that's definitely something to spend your money. And according to research that will make you more joyful, um, maybe other people, um, spending to bond, you know, bond to other people, strengthen your relationships. I'm not saying buy someone's love, but I do find like if I spend money and somehow there's a connection, like there's, it's related to like being part of a community or being with people or having a conversation with someone. I always feel amazing after I always feel good. It's always a good use of my money. Yes, I would agree. Yeah. So going back to some kind of book recommendations, what kind of book recommendations do you have for people that are like me that are looking for some

Starting point is 00:30:50 things to read, you know, during my downtime to kind of get my happy back to kind of learn some tools or just think of happiness in a different way? So for one of the things that got my husband out of his darkest spots was that the hospital, one of the hospitals that he visited actually prescribed a meditation class. So eight weeks of meditation versus medicine, because they had found that they were having as much success with a meditation course or a mindfulness course as they were with drugs. And so when I try to talk about, you know, mindfulness meditation as a antidote for pain and stress and money issues, because a lot of our shopping is done from a place of mindlessness, right? Or from a place of, as we said, from a place of trying to medicate stress and pain. So it's actually, it helps you be a little bit more mindful about some of your purchases and about, it gives you more space to let your rational mind kick in and think,

Starting point is 00:31:50 I need to think about the long-term repercussions of this action that I'm doing right now. It's a hard sell. It's a hard sell because some of my friends are thinking, you want me to met like I'm a yogi, like you want, I don't even like yoga. And I think I don't like yoga either. It's not, it's not, it's not, you know, it's not about hippies and monks and that kind of thing. There's actual science. It's actually exercise for your brain. And one of the books that I found, which puts it into great perspective, and it's sort of the meditation book or the meditation intro for people who don't like to meditate. It's Dan Harris is 10% happier. Ooh, yeah, I'm that sounds like me because I'm not into those. I'm not a woo woo person.

Starting point is 00:32:31 I'm not my husband is a little woo woo. But he was like when I met him, he just came back from Thailand and he did like a Buddhist monk retreat, whatever. And he had the prayer beads and I'm like, okay, like that's cool. So I'm not that person. So I'm, but I like the idea of meditation. I like it because I have like, just like you said, I've done some research and there's so much positive like information about how, yeah, meditation can really change the game. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to medicate myself. I don't like that idea. I want to do anything that I can naturally to kind of help myself. And sometimes it's just being more mindful. So just sitting and eating your meal and not just shoveling it in your face while on your phone, right? There are other ways to be more mindful

Starting point is 00:33:16 that you don't have to sit and do a proper class or I like guided meditation. So I'll just put earphones in for five minutes and listen to someone talk to me or prompt me with questions about my life. And maybe that's a lazy person's way of doing meditation. But anyways, Dan Harris is an ABC news journalist, and he was having some massive mental meltdowns. And this is how he has found a more balanced place. And so I'm a big proponent of that. I love that book. If you want to get all technical and sciencey, the most readable book that I found on positive psychology and on training the brain for happiness is a book called Hardwiring Happiness. It's by Dr. Rick Hansen. He's a neuroscientist and he has very specific exercises in his book for you. He has some online content that it's not necessarily meditation, but they're guided exercises where you sort of envision different things. And it's training.

Starting point is 00:34:16 Yeah. It's exercise. Yeah. Exercise for your brain. For a happier brain. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:21 Exercise for your brain and also physically. I stopped exercising with the intention of like looking fitter or whatever. It's like, it literally, it's just mental health. And when I recognize I'm like, I'm not happy. I'm feeling kind of sad. Usually when I look at my calendars, because I haven't worked out in a couple of weeks. So yeah. There's that huge component too. I mean, if you can spend money on something, try to spend money on something that will benefit your mental health or your physical health, because the physical health part is what will make you way happier. And I find that when I was filling my life with

Starting point is 00:34:53 more of that stuff, like when I was spending my money more on wellness and on connections with people and on experiences, I was less worried about chasing material goods. And I was less worried about having the dream home or whatever it is. And I just think that a big conversation that we need to have is, you know, you need to structure your money and your life in a way that will give you more choices for the future. And if you're just focusing on now, now, now I need to get all the stuff now, then, you know, later on when a storm comes, such as in the case with my husband, then you're going to be less prepared and that storm is going to be way worse. Yeah. And honestly, life is so unpredictable. You do have to be prepared because no one's life

Starting point is 00:35:39 is perfect. And I think most people listening could be like, yeah, there's definitely a couple times in my life where I thought everything was going smoothly. And then, you know, everything kind of crumbles. Absolutely. And when, yeah, absolutely. And when that happened with my husband, you know, we had, we were, we had luckily set up our money in, in, in more responsible ways. I mean, for other reasons, right? We bought a townhouse that was well below our budget because we could afford it on one income because we thought, well, one of us is going to stay home with a kid one day. Let's do it this way. And I had disability insurance in case somebody couldn't work. And we pooled our emergency fund. And all of those things came into play a month later. We had disability insurance in case he couldn't work because he's self-employed. We had a pool

Starting point is 00:36:22 of money that he could go to a treatment center, which they start at $10,000. And at that point, when you are unwell, you need money for choices. Can you imagine if you're – I have friends, I have loved ones who have been diagnosed with cancer. And now they're seeking all these different treatments and all of these alternative therapies that cost money. And you think now they think, oh man, there's so much stuff that we bought in the last little bit, which was such a waste. It could be going to something more valuable right now, right? Yep. Yep. 100%. I know we could probably learn so much more about all these amazing things in your book, Happy Go Money. Where can people find more information about you and your book? You can find me at melissaleong.com. And I'm not the best on social media only because it

Starting point is 00:37:15 sucks me in. And so I am most active on Instagram. So if you want to come and talk to me about some gratitude exercise, you want to share with me your progress and how you're doing on your happiness journey, then find me on Instagram at melissleong. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. It was a pleasure. And that was episode 181 with the wonderful Melissa Leong. Make sure to grab a copy of her new book, Happy Go Money. Check her out at her website, melissaleong.com or her Instagram. She's got some great Instas all the time. All about like, you know, money and positivity. And it's just lovely, wonderful. And make sure to check out the show notes for this episode at Jessica morehouse.com slash 181. Got some important details

Starting point is 00:37:57 in a contest for you right after this message about this episode's podcast sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, CDIC. Did you know that if you bank with a member of CDIC, your eligible deposits with that bank will be protected up to $100,000 in each of CDIC's seven different categories? So if you had $100,000 of eligible deposits in an account in one name and $100,000 of eligible deposits in a joint account, your entire $200,000 would be protected at the same financial institution.

Starting point is 00:38:38 That being said, CDIC does not insure stocks, bonds, mutual funds, or other investments. Just cash and term deposits like GICs with original terms to maturity of five years or less. There's quite a bit to know about how CDIC protects you, so why not test your knowledge with their free trivia challenge at depositinsuranceendurance.com. Or to learn the ins and outs of how CDIC works so you can feel confident about the safety of your savings, visit cdic.ca. Once again, that's cdic.ca. Alrighty. So first,

Starting point is 00:39:16 I didn't really talk too, too, too much about what I've been busy with in January, besides the fact that I was busy and didn't have really enough time to pre-record a bunch of interviews in December. So let me give you a little play by play of what I've been busy because I think you're going to be interested in some of these things. So number one, I made a huge overhaul on my free resource library on my website. So if you're at this point in your life where maybe you are just maybe you're a new listener hey if you are welcome and you want to get started with your finances like fixing them managing them better just having a better understanding and organization with your money highly recommend going to jessicamorehouse.com

Starting point is 00:39:54 slash resources or just go to my website it's there it's very easy to find and basically you sign up and you get access to all of my freebies. I've got videos, I've got tutorials, there's webinars on there, a ton of great stuff, downloads, Excel spreadsheets, like literally everything. And it's just like, I don't know, just trying to help you kickstart fixing your finances because I know it's February now. And I feel like this is kind of the time where if you've made any, you know, year goals or New Year's resolutions, you've probably failed at them or you just forgot about them completely. I love setting year goals, but I actually haven't even set my year goals in this February. I think it's ridiculous that we think we have to do them or, you know, set them in January and then keep them throughout the rest of the year. If you want to set them in February,

Starting point is 00:40:50 do it. It doesn't matter when you set them, just do it and then stick to it. So I am challenging you. If you do not have your goals and an action plan to reach your goals, go to my resource library. It's going to give you a kick in the pants and some motivation and some tools to help you get to you to where you want to go. Number two, I've been making a ton. Oh, actually, unless you're a part of my email list or even my Facebook group, you may or may not know that I launched over the Christmas holidays, my investing course called Investing Foundations for Canadians. So if you are currently investing, but have no idea what the hell you're invested in, because most likely you got some mutual funds with the hell you're invested in because most likely you got some mutual funds with the bank and no one's really explained to you what they are or you're not investing at all and you want to get started but you don't want to make a mistake and you need

Starting point is 00:41:33 some guidance this is why i created the courses specifically for all the people i've talked to you that are in any of those boats any of those those scenarios, investing isn't hard. It's not complicated. People like to make it sound like it is and it isn't. It's a big jam. It's totally something that anyone can learn how to do. And I explain it all in my investing course. And there's a free preview so you can sign up to kind of take a look and see if it's right for you and take a look at all the lessons. But if you, again, are new to the podcast, you may not know that in my early episodes, I was so embarrassed to talk about investing. And this was three and a half years ago. I thought I was an imposter. I thought I was making a mistake. At the time, I was investing in high fee mutual

Starting point is 00:42:19 funds, and I thought I was being smart. And then I started educating myself, reading books, talking to other investing experts, and then starting to really take advantage of just all the resources out there and took a ton of other investing courses and realized, oh, I can do this. This isn't impossible. You don't need an MBA to learn how to invest. You don't need to work at a bank to learn how to be an investor. Absolutely not. Everyone can do it. And so that is why I created this online course because it is investing for everyone. Last but not least, what I've been really busy with this month, and I've been absolutely loving it. So back in June, I started kind of officially working with clients one-on-one as a financial counselor. So I've been really busy with clients all month and it's been amazing

Starting point is 00:43:05 because the reason I got into this whole world of personal finance, the reason I started a blog over seven years ago and this podcast almost four years ago was honestly I want to help people. I want to empower people. I want people to feel good about money because for me, financial literacy and really understanding what the hell money is all about and how to manage it, right, made me feel better as a person and gave me hope in life and just made me feel good. It should make you feel good. And I want to now make other people feel good. And so now I do that as a financial counselor, which is very exciting.

Starting point is 00:43:39 So I've been very busy with that. If you want to learn more about what that's all about and if it's something that maybe you're looking for, awesome. More information on my website, or you can just go ahead and book a discovery call with me and we can chat on the phone at jessicamorehouse.com slash discovery call. All right, that is me kind of sharing what I've been up to. Let's get to the good part while you've kept on listening. I'm giving away copies of Melissa's book, Happy Go Money. If you want to win one of those copies of the book, and I'll mail you one, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash happygomoney or check out the show notes, jessicamorehouse slash 181. And there will be information on how you can enter to win a copy

Starting point is 00:44:25 of her book. Throughout the season, I'm going to actually be doing a ton of contests because I am interviewing a ton of authors and they've gotten amazing books. And I love reading finance books. And I'm only having the best authors on this show. So I want to make sure I can spread the love and give you some books to read so you can feel better about money. Yeah. So that's it. JessicaMorales.com slash happygomoney is where you will enter your info for the contest and hopefully win. That is it for me. Tomorrow, I have a bonus episode for you more about investing, actually more focused on sustainable and green investing. So I know you're going to like that one. So make sure to subscribe if you're listening

Starting point is 00:45:08 on iTunes. Let me know what you think about the podcast in an iTunes review, and I'm going to do some shout outs in the future episodes. Make sure you do that. But I'm going to let you go now. Thanks so much for listening. I'm going to see you back here tomorrow with a fresh new episode of the No Money Podcast. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.

More Money Podcast - 181 How to Get Happy with Your Money - Melissa Leong, Author of "Happy Go Money" & Money Expert

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