More Money Podcast - 208 Victory Lap Retirement, A New Path to Financial Independence - Mike Drak, Author of Victory Lap Retirement
Episode Date: October 16, 2019I read a lot of personal finance books. I also read a lot of niche books on retirement planning. And I’ve gotta say, most of them are so dry it takes me months to finish them. Not Victory Lap Retir...ement by Mike Drak though. I was given this book (the 1st edition) by Mike’s co-author Jonathan Chevreau at the Canadian Personal Finance Conference a few years ago, and even though it took me until last winter to finally read it…I loved it! I’d say the only other book that I whipped through in record time was Andrew Hallam’s Millionaire Teacher. So, once I finished reading it, on top of telling everyone I know to read it, I made a plan to get Mike on the show. And here is that episode! Mike Drak is a 38-year veteran of the financial services industry, so when he started his victory lap in 2014, he felt compelled to write a book about what he knew on the subject. That and he found that all the retirement books out there only talked about saving up enough for retirement, not what life in retirement actually meant. Something to get excited about too, his second book titled Retirement – Heaven or Hell? is coming out in 2020. Now, what I love most about Mike’s concept of victory lap retirement is that it’s a way to stop thinking of retirement as an end to something. I honestly dread the idea of retirement. It means you’re done with your career and are basically in the last phase of your life. I know many people think of retirement as one big vacation and what’s not to love about that, but for me it always fills me with dread and panic. I don’t want to just hang out with nothing to do and just watch the clock tick. I love working! I love having a purpose! I don’t want to retire! Mike agrees. We need to stop this idea of full-stop retirement and think of “retirement” as point in your life in which you’ve reached financial independence (you have enough money or assets to live on without working again) so you can do whatever you want with very little risk taken. It’s when you can start a second career, or just devote your time how you want, not how you have to because you need to earn money. For me, the concept of victory lap retirement fills me with hope, not dread. So if you ever feel a bit panicked when you start thinking about retirement, read this book (and obviously listen to this episode!). Visit jessicamoorhouse.com/contests to enter to win a copy of her book! For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/208 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to episode 208 of the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host,
Jessica Morehouse, and I'm so excited to be back for another episode and that you're back
here with me to listen for this episode. I am so excited. This is an author I'm so excited
to have on the show. He wrote a book that I am actually obsessed with. His name is Mike
Drack. He is a 38-year veteran of the
financial services industry, and he started his own victory lap. And that is a term that you're
going to become very familiar with if you read his book, Victory Lap Retirement. And by listening to
this episode, he started his own victory lap in 2014 and has been busy helping others transition
into their own personal versions of it ever since.
In addition to mentoring others, he gives speeches and seminars to groups across the country and
cultivates and maintains the Victory Lap community at victorylapretirement.com.
And I am thrilled to have him on the show. So I've had a lot of episodes about investing and some about
retirement, but never, I don't think I've quite honestly had a show specific to retirement and
not just, I think the thing is, the thing is, um, when it comes to retirement, a lot of people think
it is just about accumulating wealth and then you get to retire and then you're, you know, I don't know,
sitting on a beach with a glass of wine, whatever those retirement ads are all about. I know that
is so not reality. If you know anyone who actually is in retirement, that's not what retirement looks
like. Or if you know anyone who is FI, financially independent, so they can't technically stop
working, they don't just sit on a beach. That is so boring. I get bored after a week on the beach,
quite honestly. So I can imagine like decades of just doing that. And so I think that's why I was so connected with
Mike's book, Victory Lap Retirement, because it talks about retirement in terms that I feel like
no other retirement book has. And I think that is quite true. He honestly says that in the episode,
because the reason he wrote the book was he retired and he's like, there's no books that actually talk specifically about what to do in retirement, what that looks like,
how to preserve your mental health because that is a big issue in retirement when you basically
have an identity crisis and you don't know what to do with all this time. So his book really does
go in depth on, okay, you're retired now what, right? And even though you're
like, well, I am nowhere close to being retired. I think this is actually a book that especially
younger people, millennials like you and me, or depending on what your age is, but I'm talking
to right now, I'm talking to the millennials, the younger people that are like, why should I care?
This is why you should care. Because when I read this book, I honestly like sighed just so much relief. I'm so bad with sayings.
What is the term? A big sigh. I gave a big sigh of relief. I think that's the saying.
Because he writes in his book that the goal is not to have this full stop retirement, that you
stop working at 65 and you just have to live off your investments and your savings and
whatever assets you've accumulated. Because that is a terrifying idea. And he even kind of talks
about that in the show that how could we honestly save up enough in 20 or 30 or 40 years, however
long it takes us to save for retirement and live off that savings for another 20, 30, 40 years. Doesn't that seem crazy?
The math doesn't really add up. And so what I love about this is he's talking really about how
we shouldn't have this idea of full stop retirement. We shouldn't have this goal of
just stopping to earn money. There's different ways. And I love that because that means, oh, great.
It doesn't mean like, oh, you have to go get another job. There's lots of different ways
to create passive income or to have a side hustle or to have a different career. You don't have to
just stop working at 65 and you may not want to. And for me, this resonates a lot because
I never liked the idea of stopping to work because I actually, well, for the first time in my life
in the past three years,
I absolutely love what I do for work.
I don't wanna stop this.
I may wanna evolve and change it,
but I never want to stop working and feeling this fulfilled,
feeling like I'm actually giving back
that I'm doing something worthwhile.
Anyways, I'm talking too much.
I'm so excited to have Mike on the show.
You're going to absolutely love this episode. And of course, I'm going to give away his book. So
listen to the end of this episode to find out how to win a copy. But first, before I get to that
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slash mo money. Thank you, Mike, for joining me on the show. I'm so excited to have you.
Thank you, Jessica.
I read the first edition of Victory Lap Retirement, not too well, maybe maybe it's back in the winter.
I don't know. I feel like I've been telling everybody I meet to pick up this book,
and I mentioned it on the news. That's how much I freaking loved your book. And I do not do that
often. So I'm so excited to have you on the show. You have a second edition of the book
with a third author. But I'm so excited to first just get to know you a little bit more because
you have a long history in the financial services industry. Can you kind of tell me a little bit more because you have a long history in the financial services industry. Can you kind
of tell me a little bit more about your background and what got you inspired to write this book
called Victory Lap Retirement? Well, you know, I was in the banking industry for 36 years with one
bank. I worked there my whole life. And then one day they decided to package me off before my time.
And I had to figure out this retirement thing for myself, you know, exactly.
How old were you when that happened?
I was late 50s.
Oh, yeah.
So you're like, I'm not ready to, that's not the plan.
Well, no, the plan was to work hard, save a lot more money and bulk up my retirement savings for eventual retirement.
But I never really thought about what retirement was all about.
I had no idea, to be honest, right?
So when I was packaged off, I went out and I got my hands on every retirement book and financial planning book I could.
Looking for an answer and I couldn't find it because most of them just focus on the money aspect.
And what I wanted to know was, well, what exactly do you do in retirement?
How do you occupy your time?
How do you become happy?
And that's what I was looking for.
And I couldn't find it in the book.
So I had to figure it out for myself.
And that's what motivated me to write the book to help others come up with a similar solution.
Yeah, no. And I think that's why I actually really liked your book because I've read
quite a few retirement books and man, are they boring and dry and they are just focused on
finding your number. And you're like, yeah, but this was the first book that I read that actually got me thinking about, you know, it's not just about how much wealth you need in order
to survive in retirement, but it's just like, what is that life like? And most of the time,
when people think about that, they're like, oh, I don't know. I'll just like hang out or
I'll finally write that great novel or start painting or travel the world or volunteer. And to me, I'm like, yeah, but why do
you have to wait for me? Because I feel like that is a very common story where people will putting
off doing their passion until they retire. For me, I'm like, oh my gosh, that is so many decades
away. Why do I have to wait that long to do that? And that's, I don't know why that's a very common
story, but now you are retired. What did you, when you had to make that transition, it did sound like you prepared yourself.
What was it like?
I immediately went into retirement shock for at least six months because you're not prepared
for it.
It feels like you're getting pushed out of your tribe.
I worked in a place for 36 years.
All my friends were there.
It was a big part of my life.
And all of a sudden, you're on the outside looking in.
And on Monday morning, the first day of retirement, the phone doesn't ring.
You don't get any emails.
You could hear the sound of a pin dropping in your house.
You go, oh, my God, what am I going to do?
And you have to figure that out. I was totally unprepared. But, you know, once I started to
settle down a little bit and think things through, I started coming up with some solutions for
myself that worked out quite well, but it took me a little bit of time.
So, yeah, how did you kind of develop these ideas and what did you end up, I mean, I guess writing
books is one thing, but what did you kind of figure out? How am I going to fill my time and
find fulfillment in retirement?
Okay. So number one, I have a hard time with the word retirement in itself.
I think it's a terrible word. Traditional full stop retirement doesn't
work anymore because it's almost impossible to fund 30 years of retirement with 30 years of
work. And it's causing a lot of stress for people. So I wanted to come up with a lifestyle that would
work for me. I like working. I enjoy it. But I just didn't want to do that
banking job anymore. I was kind of, you know, tired of it. I wanted to do something new.
I want to have something more flexible and something that I would really love to do for
a long time. And, you know, best case scenario, I would never retire. I would just keep doing what I love to do. So, but I had to find that I had to figure it out for myself. And, you know, I got this one,
I finally figured things out. That's what motivated me to write a book to help other people and say,
hey, there's so much you can do. But it's important to find your purpose and your passion.
And it's not the easiest thing in the world to do.
It takes a lot of time and soul searching and deep reflection.
But it's possible.
And once you do that, life turns out pretty good.
Yeah.
Do you think it's because, I mean, for me, that's always been very important in my life.
Like since an early age, I've always been, and this could be just for having like my dad he's a creative and so um passion and finding your purpose and
your passion has always been very important to me in my life but I know a lot of people
they are they just get swept up in the busyness of life and checking off that life checklist of
um you know finding a partner having children you know buying a house having that successful
career going up the corporate ladder.
And by the time you know it, then you're retired and you've never really had a good thought about,
but what actually do I want to do in life? What do I want to create or whatever? Is that kind of why a lot of people, when they retire, they're like, oh my gosh, I've actually never really
thought about this because I was just living life. Well, what happens? Well, you're not really living.
I would call it something else. But what you're doing is you're trained to pursue money.
And the corps do that. Your parents teach you that. The schools teach you that,
that you have to compete and make as much money as possible so you're successful when you compare yourself to others and it's the wrong message and many times you know early in life we have a feel for what we would like to do what we're capable
of the gifts we've been giving but we lose sight of that once we go to work for a large corporation
and you know we copy the way they they do they act, and we want to be a good corporate soldier so we can get promotions
and things like that.
So we really get off track from who we really are
and what we really like to do because we're chasing security
for our family and things like that, and we're trying to pay down
the mortgage, and we're trying to save up funds for retirement.
And, you know, when you go into like victory lap, that's your chance to get back to square one and say, hey, you know what?
I want to reconnect with myself.
I want to figure out what I really like to do and try to find a way of pursuing that.
And money is not the main driver anymore. It's having fun. Yeah. And,
you know, enjoying what you're doing. And, you know, that's the search that we're on in Victory
Lap. And when we can identify those things, and we actually start doing them, life is so much better.
And then why would you retire from something that you love to do right yeah yeah it doesn't make
sense yeah and i completely agree after reading your book i'm like you're right i don't like the
word retirement because you know in the past it was that you're done working because you probably
physically cannot work anymore and then you're gonna die within 10 years that doesn't sound
fun i don't want to just like sit in a rocking chair and wait for my death.
But that's the way it was.
Yeah, it really was.
How terrible.
Yeah, people don't understand that retirement is a man-made thing.
They invented it to solve a problem the corporations had.
And yes, early on it did work because people, like you said, they didn't live that long.
And, you know, they didn't need much money to, you know, live in retirement. But now people
working, you know, living 30 plus years in retirement, that just doesn't work anymore.
They have to take a new approach. And they have to accept that maybe working at something makes a lot of
sense. Yeah. And I think that's what actually your book gave me a lot more hope because I sometimes
worry about my retirement because I'm self-employed. So is my husband. He always has been.
And so, okay, we have to fund our retirement. Like we're not going to get a pension. We're
not going to get anything like that. We have to figure that out. And when we think about how much we need to accumulate for, as you said,
like a 30 plus year retirement, terrifying. And I hear that sentiment from a lot of other
millennials. So we've had a kind of a rough go. A lot of us that kind of had to experience the
recession. I experienced it right at the beginning of my career. So that was pretty shocking.
And then it's like we're paying off
student loans. We have to buy a house. There's all these expenses. And then on top of that,
we also have to save all of this money for retirement. It just seems kind of like an
impossible task. So that's what I really liked the messaging in your book was,
you don't have to do this, like you said, full stop retirement. it doesn't make sense to me anyways. You need to figure out other ways
to have, you know, income coming in besides what you've already saved. That's right. And for me,
that gave me a lot of hope actually. I'm like, okay, good. There is a different strategy because
no one else is talking about this. I don't know why. Well, Jessica, you get it. And hopefully a
lot more people get it because they're going to need to get it or they're going to have some problems,
right? What I like to do is remove the word retirement and replace it with the term financial
freedom. And that's what I'm teaching my kids is forget about this retirement thing. Work towards
financial freedom. And when you obtain financial freedom, then you're free to do whatever
you want. And it's such a beautiful feeling to say, you know what, I don't have to work, but
I want to work, but I want to work at something that I enjoy. And then it's not really work.
The lines between work and leisure get very blurry, right? I love the concept of young people starting side gigs
and being prepared for whatever could happen down the road, creating their own business,
making some money on the side and finding something they have a passion for,
that they can monetize and use that down the road when they finally leave their primary career.
And those are things that, you know, we're starting to tell people, start doing this,
do it five years before you're officially going to retire. And if something happens,
by chance, if they package you off or whatnot, you're off to a good start.
Absolutely. No, and I think that's why I really liked your book. This is something that's
kind of front of mind. My parents are like, my mom's still working. She works for the school
board in BC, but my dad, he worked for a company for, I think it was like 30 years. And he got,
yeah, packaged off just like you. And it was very unexpected. He thought he just had to put another
10 years in and he'd be good to go. He got a pension and all this stuff. Nope. That's just not what he expected.
And we were all pretty shocked. And so what he had to do was figure out, okay, what am I going to do?
He was a graphic designer for this new station. He didn't want to do that. Well, he couldn't get
a job like that anymore because all these new stations don't have as much money as they once
did when he first started. And so he had to honestly honestly he had to go back to school in his 50s and learn retrain
and learn something new and so now he's he is working again um but in a very different industry
very different um way he's not a full-time employee he works contracts for the film industry
and it's it's interesting because for me i'm like oh I get it because I'm self-employed or I've always had a side hustle. So I'm used to just like figuring it out,
make your money, whatever way you can for him. It's a, it's a big struggle, but I think it will
actually help him because now as he's approaching retirement age, he will understand to kind of,
you know, have his own side hustle, which he hopes to be, you know, writing children's books and
making art and stuff. So like you said, it's like, he's actually preparing now for that
eventual retirement. So it won't hopefully be as big of a shock, you know? That's right.
That's right. Yeah. I think transition to a full stop retirement is very stressful.
It's almost equivalent to getting the bends when you're coming up from deep waters uh skin diving if you come up
too fast it's going to cause you some problems and and people need time to adjust and get used to it
and transition slowly into retirement over years right but you know it's funny whenever i read
articles of people that live a long time i find these people that also worked a long time, late in life,
and that gave them a reason to get out of bed in the morning.
And there's a lot of benefits attached to continuing to work late in life
that people have to, you know, recognize and understand
and take advantage of.
But yet, you know, everyone, the banks love,
the industry loves
to sell this full-stop retirement thing. And it's just, I think you got to be very careful with it.
They should put a warning on those commercials like they do on those drug commercials.
Yeah, I know.
The side effects of full-stop retirement so people are aware.
Yeah, because I know it's very common and it makes sense too. It's almost kind of like the
same, uh, I'd say feeling if you've ever been laid off or fired, I've experienced unemployment
in my career where it's, you're just, you can't really be fully prepared for not working anymore.
Cause like you said, it's like, that's where your community is. That's where your friends are.
You have the sense of purpose. You have a reason to wake up every day. When you have this full-star retirement, you don't have that anymore. And yeah, if you just don't work anymore,
like what is, like, it would be like, what's the point though? Like, what am I doing?
That's right.
And so you need to have something to do. Whether, now, I guess my question is,
does some people do feel like, oh, well, I'll just like volunteer and stuff.
Is it important for them to continue to earn money? Or is it just about being busy in retirement?
It depends on your situation, right? If you have enough retirement savings or
passive income coming in where you don't have to work, you can get away from it by doing volunteer
activities or things like that. But you still have to replace purpose.
You know, originally your purpose was to work hard, make money, take care of the family,
pay down the mortgage. And when you lose that purpose, when you leave your job or the kids
leave and the mortgage is gone, you have to replace it with something or you're going to
be lost and it's going to cost you large. So, you know, even though you have money,
you still need purpose in some form and it comes in a variety of forms, but you have to find a
purpose that will work for you, that will get you excited, that will give you some passion to get
out of bed in the morning. Right. And if you don't have it, you got a problem. Yeah. Cause it's
fairly common for people to experience kind of signs of depression and stuff when they don't have a plan.
And they just, you know.
For sure.
But it's really funny because, you know, there's different people in every field, right?
And some people can get away with it.
I know a guy that's retired.
He wakes up every morning around 12 o'clock.
He doesn't even care what day it is.
He doesn't do much other than watch TV, but he's happy.
Now, there are people like that.
And, you know, who am I to say that's wrong?
It works for them.
But there's so many other people that need something, that need purpose.
And those are the ones that are going to pay a price if they can't find it.
And that's what we're trying to coach to is to say, okay, let's talk and let's find something for you to do.
I know one gentleman that he was packaged off from his chemical engineering job.
And he took the severance check and he said, you know what?
When I was younger, I used to love the paint.
And this is a true story.
You hear these painting stories all the time.
And this is a true story because I know them.
And he said to his wife, he said, you know what?
I'm going to take some of this severance check.
I'm going to take the loft upstairs in our house. I'm going to buy some painting the semper's check. I'm going to take the loft upstairs in our house.
I'm going to buy some painting supplies, and that will be my studio,
and I'm going to give it a shot.
Because he stopped doing it because his father told him,
look, you can't make money producing art and expect to get married
and raise a family.
You've got to get a real job.
And so he went out and started doing it
and what a word of a lie he's making more money now than he did in his chemical oh my gosh
and he's loving it every day he's the happiest guy in the world and i'm jealous
but you see it's out there you just have find it. And I can tell you so many stories
about different situations where it worked out so well, but people have to get over their initial
fear of, you know, you know, I'm not good enough or I can't do that. I've never started a business
or how will I get customers? And those are the ones we need to
sit down and hold their hand and say, Hey, it works. Let's think this through. You have so
many qualities and so many experiences you can take advantage of that it's hard for you to lose,
but they have to start to think that way and realize that and believe in it.
And also in terms of like the business side
of things, we're in the best time I'd say ever for you to get that information for free. There's
the internet and there's so many ways that you can now find clients through the internet. It's
not like you have to set up a shop anymore and get customers off the street. It's actually the
easiest time ever to start a business and to find out how to run a business you don't have to go to
university to learn this stuff anymore no no i think you know i'm starting to think maybe
i'm not going to tell my kids that yet but you know what i i i have some feelings about that
and i'm starting to wonder right but you know what i like about these these let's call them portable
businesses is you can do it anywhere in the world you don't have to be in canada to do it
and you've got a laptop and a connection you're off to the races and so many people are doing
neat things like i know one couple they go to garage sales and they try to find these old antique dolls that they fix up, refurbish, and they sell on Amazon and eBay.
And there's passion.
They love what they're doing and they're making money at it.
And they're their own bosses.
Like, you know, how do you define the life of Riley?
I think they have it there and it's just
another example of people being creative and I love when when we go to the libraries and we talk
to you know recent retirees and they come up and they say hey guess what this is what I'm doing
and it's really working out well and I'm having a lot of fun. And the creativity
is just unbelievable. And it's very exciting. Yeah, absolutely. For me, I used to honestly
dread the idea of retirement. I used to tell people, I'm never retiring. And I think actually
what I meant was the exact concept that you have in your book. It's like, well, I'm never going to
stop working. I may shift and may not work as much, but I never want to stop because, well, I think
it also depends on too, like, I think, so I don't know if you've heard, you probably have, of this
whole movement called FIRE, Financially Independent, Retire Early. It's getting bigger and bigger.
There's so many, I just came back from a conference and it's a very huge community of people striving
to become financially independent and retire early at a very young age,
like 30s, 40s, which is aspirational. I find it very stressful myself because I'm just worried
about regular retirement. But what I see for all these people is basically they're doing the kind
of like what we're talking about. It's like they're not hoping just to accumulate so much
wealth so they can finally hang out on the beach and just read
books. It's honestly, most of the time they reach financial independence and what do they do? They
start a blog, they start writing books, they find out what their passion is and they start a
business. Isn't that so funny? But you know what's interesting is they hate to admit that they're
working. Yes. Post FI. And I hate, I hate FIRE. I'd rather just have it fi and take the re off the
back because it's not true it's just exactly what you said yeah no one's not working they're all
working believe me you had to because they'd be bored out of their mind exactly especially having
achieved this huge achievement they've worked so hard for like a decade
and you're just going to stop and not work anymore?
Yeah, right.
You're too ambitious for that.
Yes, but they should celebrate their freedom
because they're free to do whatever they want,
whenever they want to do it.
And they take that freedom
and they do some creative things.
And that's what they're doing.
And I don't know why they're embarrassed to admit that.
I think it's like any kind of extreme community in the personal finance world. Like I saw that
a lot with the debt community. Like people would be very supportive of each other if you were paying
off debt. Once you became debt free, it's almost like you're kicked out of the community. It's like,
bye, you're debt free. You don't belong here anymore. And you're like, we should be celebrating
the people that do not have debt anymore.
But it is what it is.
So I don't know.
I see a lot of feelings and judgment around that, which is why at first I really liked
the concept of it.
Because I'm like, if you don't have some big money goal, what a great goal to set yourself
to kind of move forward.
But then I also see there's a lot of opinions out there and i'm like well i feel like this could also make people feel
not good enough or whatever there's a lot of issues in the community no but take what you
will from it you know what i mean take what you will that'll work for you it depends how frugal
you want to be i want to live a little bit too. So I'm teaching my kids the concept of FI.
But, you know, I'm saying, but once you have your freedom, you got to, you can't stop. You got to
keep going and you have to figure it out for yourself. But I said, don't start saving for
retirement, save for FI. It makes more sense to me. Right. That's just more exciting too.
Yeah, for sure. sure oh and it's a
good goal you can see it then you get excited when you when you get closer to it right it's a it's a
wonderful goal to have so i love the concept i just don't like the re part now i agree i agree
so you have the second edition of your book victory lap retirement you've added a third
author so before it was just you and jonathan chereau. Now we've got Rob Morrison. What are the kind of new updates people can expect
from this new book? And what does Rob Morrison add to the table in this book?
Okay. So two reasons why we did the revision was number one, there was a lot of feedback we were
getting from people at the seminars and the zoomer shows and everything like that and they
they they wanted more so they wanted more ideas they wanted to almost like a step-by-step process
so what we've done is we've added more to the original book and i'm in the process of writing
a follow-up book which will be a national transition guide to Victory Lab.
Ooh, I like that.
So yeah, I'm really excited.
It's going to be out next year.
I got to get it into the auditor by December,
but I know it's going to help a lot of people
and make them feel better about it, right?
The reason I brought Rob in was
I wanted to release the book in the US.
And Rob's based in Chicago.
He's president of a financial services firm.
So he knows a lot about the investment advisory space, the rules in the U.S., the different concepts.
You know, basically they're the same as ours, but they just have different names and whatnot. So we brought him in to provide that information and also to provide more stories to
make sure that, look, we covered off both aspects on both sides of the border. And basically it's
the same. And we went a little bit deeper. We described retirement cash flow in a little bit more detail. I'm using that word retirement again because I'm forced to.
And we wanted to talk about some of the pitfalls and things that people go
through when they retire, such as, you know,
kids holding their hands out and things like that.
So we want to talk about some of those aspects and, you know,
as life goes on and we learn more and we see different needs from retirees, we're
going to revise it and keep it up to date.
Since you mentioned it, I'm curious, what are your thoughts?
Because I see a lot of articles out there about how young millennials are basically
taking the money from their parents and now their parents don't have enough for retirement.
What are your thoughts on that? Is that something you've come in contact with?
Oh, I've seen it. I've seen it. And it really concerns me because I think
for some reason we got a little carried away and maybe we spoiled our kids a little bit.
And because the intent was we want them to have a better life than we have
so that's normal you know we want them to have a bigger house and a better job and a nicer car and
go on better vacations and so now because those things are so expensive and they're struggling
uh you know we're we're many times stepping up to the plate and kind of supporting them,
acting as an ATM, which I, you know, I think it's a big mistake, but it's hard to stop something
that you've already created. Yeah, it's for me, I, yeah, my feelings on this is that I,
I wouldn't like if I had kids, I feel like I understand the desire to help your kids financially,
but I don't think you're really helping them
because you're not teaching them.
No, totally correct.
You want your kids to be self-sufficient
and be able to learn how to make their own money.
I feel like that is why I am so comfortable
right now in my life.
I didn't come from money,
but I definitely learned some great skills
from my family on how if you need money, there's a way to make it, but you're going to have to work hard at
it. You're probably going to work some jobs that you feel are beneath you, but just do what you
got to do. And my husband is the same way. And so we learned so much from those lessons because
our parents honestly couldn't afford to give us any money. But from the kids that do get that
money, I don't think they're learning those really important lessons. So they're just learning,
if you need help, go ask mom and dad.
That's right.
That's the default.
And you know,
but you can't blame them all the time too,
because it's harder to get a good job.
It's harder to get a job that has benefits.
You're coming out of school now with,
you know,
student loans and things like that.
And just the price of housing,
like in a place like
toronto or vancouver it's crazy and i'm struggling even with the idea of maybe they shouldn't buy
homes now like why put that pressure on you uh early in life to carry uh maybe uh you know five
hundred six seven hundred thousand dollar mortgage and got jobs aren't guaranteed like they were kind of
were when i was working like there was an unwritten agreement way back when that you
work hard and we'll cover you off and we'll make sure it's like if you stay loyal we'll also stay
loyal it's like i've never experienced that in a job. No, and you never will. Yeah, yeah.
But I did.
I did.
And everything changed in the 80s, right?
And it's sad.
It's sad.
It is hard.
Like, that's the thing.
It's definitely a different world.
It's definitely harder in some respects.
We cannot get the same things that our parents got as easily. But on the other side of it,
there's so many things that we can, I think, experience and explore that our parents can't.
Like travel. It's actually so much more affordable now to travel than it was to my parents. My
parents never had enough money to travel. But maybe it's also like priorities are different.
They definitely wanted to own a home. They never traveled. I think their first real trip together was on their like 20th anniversary.
It's crazy.
For me, I'm like, well, it took me a lot longer to eventually buy a home with my husband,
but we've been on lots of trips.
So...
Well, it's a trade-off, you see.
You're trading off a lifestyle versus buying a home.
Yeah.
But it's interesting where you said, you know, I basically mirrored the lifestyle your parents went through. And now I'm traveling a lot, you see, and the reason I can afford to do that is because I'm still working a bit, right? So I use that cash flow. I have FI, but any additional cash flow that comes in from my work I do, I spend.
And I spend it on lifestyle for my wife and my kids so we can have a lot of fun together.
Because I understand the pressure they're under.
And I really want to keep a close watch on them to make sure that they don't crack.
And I want to make sure they have a
little bit of fun too. So, you know, to go on a annual family vacation where they can, you know,
let their hair down and have a lot of fun and get reconnected is so important. And that's why,
you know, that's part of my purpose is for what I work so I can fund these things.
Yeah. And I think that's also a good incentive for
anyone who's like, oh, do I want to work in retirement? It's like, you can have a lot of
fun with that extra money that you're making in retirement. So I made it my model. I'm turning 65
in October. And as a matter of fact, I just told my wife last night this, the next 10 years are
going to be the best 10 years of our life. And I said, just watch it.
And I mean, and I think I can do it.
So, you know, the sky's the limit, really.
But you got to change your perspective.
Yeah, definitely.
It is a lot of mindset.
And that's why, yeah, I'm so glad that you were able to share on the show and your book.
I'm so glad that you have a new version that
people can check out too in Canada and the US. And I think it'll give people a very important
kind of updated perspective on retirement or financial freedom or whatever you would like
to call it. Because I agree, the old kind of idea of retirement, we need to put that away.
It's just not working for anybody. So we need to move
forward. Could I add one more thing, Jessica? Absolutely. And this is going to be in a new book.
What I've noticed is that I go to, I work out, I go, I joined a swimming tribe, I call it.
So I go swimming three times a week and I joined the gym and I joined a bike riding
club and whatnot. And I'm noticing people like old, like people, you know, that would be classified
as older people. They're so vibrant. They're in such great health and they have such great
attitudes. And I refer to them as retirement rebels because they're breaking the old mold of
what old people should look like and act like I got an 80 year old I swim with no sorry he's 79
he's gonna celebrate his 80th birthday by doing Ironman Cozumel oh my. I can't even, that's crazy. I know. But you see these, I'm seeing what people
are capable if they want to work at it and take care of themselves. And if they have a great
attitude and many of these people are still working. So I'm looking at this lifestyle and
I'm going, no one talks about this stuff. Right. And I'm looking at these people, and I know some of these people,
these 70, 80-year-old people, they could outrun a 40-year-old,
maybe even a 30-year-old in some cases.
Oh, no, they can probably beat me for sure.
But I'm saying look at the possibilities if you look at it
and you change your lifestyle and you do the right things
and you're disciplined.
You can have a long and healthy life.
And you can catch up for all those hard times you went through.
And that's what we're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Basically getting rid of this ridiculous notion that it's all downhill from whatever age.
Exactly.
Not true.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that makes me feel like I definitely need to work out today.
So do I. If that eight-year-old is doing an Ironman, I better get to work.
It's a beautiful thing, Jessica. I'm telling you.
Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much, Mike, for joining me on the show. I'll have to have you
back again when your new book is out.
Oh, that would be wonderful, Jessica. And it's been wonderful talking to you today.
And before I let you go,
where can people find more information about you
and your book, Victory Lap Retirement?
Okay, they can visit the victorylapretirement.com website.
We do a weekly blog there.
So there's all kinds of new information
coming down all the time
and if they want to order the book they can do it through the website where you know we send out
signed copies of the book and we include a retirement rebel wristband or they can buy it at
you know chapters are on amazon awesome but yeah we we try to keep things current and give out new
information all the time.
And what we're trying to do, and you used the word before, is give people hope for a better
future, a better retirement. And there's a lot of things they can do to make that happen.
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much again. It was so nice chatting with you.
And that is episode 208 with the wonderful Michael Druck, author of Victory Lap Retirement.
Make sure to go to victorylapretirement.com to learn more about all of the things that
he's talking about.
Make sure to grab a copy of his book, either for you or for someone that you know would
really get something out of it.
Also, as he mentioned, he's coming out with a new book.
Summer of 2020 is when he hopes to
release it called Retirement Heaven or Hell, which I'm very much excited about. But I just have a few
words to share about this episode sponsor. And then I have some very important things to share.
So stick around, do not move. This episode of the Mo Money podcast is supported by Policy Me. Do you
have life insurance? Because if you have a
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policyme.com slash Mo Money. First off, of course, make sure to go to the show notes for this episode,
jessicamorass.com slash 208 to find out more information about everything that we talked about
and for some important links that you will want to click on, you know. But also, I'm giving away a copy of his book,
Victory Lap Retirement. I'm giving away several copies because I don't want to be stingy. You
know what I mean? Like, there's so many people that enter these contests. I can't just give
away one book. That's crazy. So, I'm going to give away a couple copies of all the books.
And you can do so by going to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. That is how you can enter all of the book giveaways I'm doing this season of the podcast. So, jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. That is how you can enter all of
the book giveaways I'm doing this season of the podcast. So jessicamorehouse.com slash contest
is where you can find all the information about how to enter. Now, if you're also curious,
what other, you know, investing books or retirement planning books would you recommend?
I have a whole list of them on my website at jessicamorehouse.com slash recommendations.
But off the top of my head,
I want to just share some so you can do some investigation and get these books so you can
start your journey on feeling less terrified of the idea of retirement and start taking action.
Because guess what? It is not that scary. It's not that hard. It's not that crazy. You just need to
read, honestly, a few
books to really get things clicking in your mind. You're like, oh, this isn't too bad. No, it's not.
You just have to arm yourself with some education, just like I did, and you're doing from listening
to my podcast. But if you want to go more in depth, here are some of my favorite investing books.
First, Broke Millennial Takes on Investing by Erin Lowry. She, of course, wrote the original
book, Broke Millennial. This is the one that focuses on investing. You're definitely going to want to grab a fan of this strategy of investing. I myself am as well. It's called The Little Book of Common Sense Investing by John C. Bogle. It is great. It's a bit dry, so you're going to have to
give it a chance. Next, one of my all-time favorite investing books, quite honestly,
it was the first investing book that I read so quickly. It was actually Paige Turner. I don't
know. Just something clicked with me with this book. millionaire teacher by Andrew Hallam. He's
amazing. Um, what else we got your retirement income blueprint by Daryl diamond. That reminds
me, I should probably contact him to get them on this show is a book I recently read about
retirement. And it's also like specific to Canada. So again, no offense to Daryl, a bit dry,
but very meaty, like lots of good meaty content in there. What else we got?
Unshakeable by Tony Robbins. I know some people are fans, some not. I actually freaking loved it.
I really did. It's like an easy read. He has a lot of great experts who write in the book. I think
it's a good one. The Value of Simple by John Robertson. It's my go-to book if anyone asks me,
hey, I want to learn how to be a self-directed or DIY investor. How do I get started? And something
specific to Canadians. The Value of Simple by John Robertson is the book that you want to grab.
What else? Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robin, Joe Dominguez, and Monique Tilford.
I'll be honest, guys, I haven't read it.
It's on my bookshelf. I bought it like two years ago. And I'm like, I got to read it. It is the book that everyone tells me to read. Everyone's read it and they loved it. And it's one of these,
I feel like it is the book that kind of inspired this whole fire movement, but it's supposed to
be amazing and inspirational. And I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it guys. And so you should read it too. It is, is a top-notch book.
I hear, oh, terrible. I ended off on that, but whatever it is, what it is, what can I do? Like,
I can't read all of the books guys. I try my best. I try my best. Um, but if you actually want to do
something actionable, you don't, you're like, yeah, I've read all those books or I've read so
many books. I just want to like, ah, I wish someone would just like really put it in like an online course so I can learn it and then implement
it. Guess what? I have a course called investing foundations for Canadians. If you go to Jessica
Morales.com slash investing foundations, you can find out more information about it. But basically
as you would expect from the name, if you're Canadian, uh, cause it is specific to Canadian
investing, but I do have a ton of Americans that have also taken it and really liked it. It goes into everything you
pretty much need to know about just traditional investing and mutual funds or index funds or ETFs
or GICs and all that kind of stuff, how to build a portfolio, how to make sure you are on the right
track to save for retirement, how to set your investing
goals, how to choose working with an advisor or using a robo-advisor or going to become a DIY
investor using a discount brokerage. All of that jargon I just said to you, you will understand
after taking my course. And there's a ton of great reviews from past students. So make sure
to check it out, jessicamorehouse.com slash investing foundations.
And you know what?
I'm going to be real nice right now, OK?
If you want to take this course, but you need a little incentive, I am going to do something
special for you because you're a podcast listener.
I'm going to give you a special 20% off discount code.
If you go to that website, if you use the promo code Mo Money Podcast,
I know, surprise, Mo Money Podcast, that promo code will be good from now until December 31st,
2019. So if you need a kick in the pants, this is your kick in the pants. What are you waiting for?
Go do it. All right. That is it for me. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you,
you know, want to let me know what you think about the show, leave me an iTunes review.
Hopefully it's nice. I don't like nasty ones, man. Have I gotten them? Don't appreciate them.
Don't do it. Like, just like, don't put negativity out there, but also like you do you like you, it's a free world.
Like you do whatever you want. Um, I'm going to be back here next Wednesday with a fresh new
episode. Uh, actually that is a fricking lie. I'm going to be back here tomorrow. I have a bonus
episode. I just remembered. So you are going to want to join me because guess what? It is also
about investing and it is a good one guys. It is a good investing. And it is a good one, guys. It is
a good episode. So I will see you back here tomorrow for that bonus episode. So with that
being said, see you tomorrow. Have a good rest of your day.
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