More Money Podcast - 212 Money and Its Effect on Your Mental Health - Melanie Lockert, Author of Dear Debt & Founder of Lola Retreat

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

Money and mental health, have you ever wondered if there is a connection? Because there absolutely is. And surprisingly, even though this is something I’ve known for a while, and even experienced in my personal life, I’ve never had anyone on the podcast to talk about it with me. Luckily, I know people. Like Melanie Lockert, who was on episode 21 of the podcast all the way back in 2015. A lot has happened since we recorded that episode. She published a book called Dear Debt, moved from Portland to L.A., and founded a women’s financial literacy event called Lola Retreat. She’s also become very well known as not only a debt expert, but also a money and mental health advocate. And that’s what we’re talking about on the show, hopefully to shed some light on a topic not many people are talking about. If you or someone you know is struggling with financial issues, mental health issues, or both, here are some resources we mentioned on the show that you may want to look into for help: Crisis Text Line Open Path Collective The LifeLine Canada For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/212 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to episode 212 of the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is a very special episode because this is a topic that I'm going to, I've never talked about this topic on the show and I'm a bit surprised. I'm so glad that I am going to be talking about this on the show because it is a very serious and important topic that more of us in the personal finance community need to talk about. So I have Melanie Lockard back on the show.

You, if you're a longtime listener, I know there are some of you out there. Hell yeah. You got me to where I am today. Thank you. Um, I had her on the show back in October, 2015. She was episode 21. So she was really one of my first guests. I've known her for years, uh, through the personal finance blogging community. She still runs her blog, dear debt at dear debt.com. And when I had her on the show, she just released her first book called dear debt. And we talked a lot about her personal debt journey, she was able to

pay off $81,000 of student loan debt. And it was a very tough journey. So she she blogged about it, that's what really helped her get through it. And then she wrote a book about it. Well, that was several years ago. And so I actually ran into her very quickly at FinCon back in September. And then we, I never saw her throughout the whole conference because there's like 2,500 people there. And then I saw like, she has been in the media quite a bit as kind of this mental health and money advocate. And it just kind of struck me. I'm like, I can't believe this isn't, I've never talked about mental health and how it correlates with money or how money can impact mental health, I've never talked about mental health and how it correlates with money or how money can impact mental health. I've never talked about that on the show. So I need to have her back

and she is just, yeah, just such a wonderful voice, uh, in this space. She's obviously dealt with this, uh, personally, but she also is someone that has helped a lot of people through this as well. Um, so anyways, I'm. So anyways, you're going to love this episode. Before I get to this interview with Melanie, I just want to share a few words about this episode's sponsor. Have you ever heard of the phrase, you don't know what you don't know? Well, The Great Courses Plus is the perfect place to help fill in those gaps. Learning doesn't stop with this online service. There are thousands of lectures on virtually any topic you can think of, even those you might not think of, all presented

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to the great courses plus.com slash Mo Money. Once again, that's the greatcoursesplus.com slash mo money to get one month free. Welcome back Melanie to the show. It has been a few years since you were last here. I'm so, and it's high time that you're back. So much has changed. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be back. I know. I can't believe it's been four years. It's wild. It's wild. So you were on a show episode 21. So literally one of my first guests, October 6th, 2015. So if anyone wants to check out that episode, that is episode 21, JessicaMorales.com slash 21. But you were on the show because I feel like you were, you knew you had just paid off your student loan debt, which was at $81,000. You chronicled your journey with your blog and you came out with your book, Dear Debt. And that was in 2015. We're in 2019 now.

Yeah. And I know back then, I think you were still living in Portland. Now you live in LA. Yes. Can you give us a cold note? So what has happened since that last time we chatted? Yeah. So much has changed. So yeah, like at the end of 2015, I paid off all of my student loan debt. And while I was paying off my debt, I had something called a debt-free dream list to keep me motivated. And these were all the things that I wanted to do once I paid off my debt. Because when you're putting four-figure payments towards your debt every month, I mean, debt fatigue sets in and it gets so exhausting. And so on that list was moving back to Los Angeles because I did

not like Portland. And I ended up doing that in April, 2016. So I moved back to Los Angeles where I'm from and have been here ever since. And on that list as well was to take my mom to Italy. And a couple of months after I moved back to LA, I took my mom to Italy and we had a beautiful trip and it was her first time abroad and it was amazing. And another thing on that list was to get cats. I'm a big, crazy cat mom and I always wanted a cat, but I knew that it wasn't going to be a wise idea to get cats while I was paying off debt. And so now I have two baby kitties, Miles and Thelonious.

And yeah, I've been able to accomplish everything on my debt-free dream list. And because I paid off my debt, I was able to take more risks in my business. And so I started a women and money retreat with Emma Patti, another personal finance blogger called Lola Retreat a couple of years ago. I'm now running it solo. I've done four events in the past two years. So it's been a lot. It's been a lot. Wow. So yeah, cause I feel like last time we were chatting, you were, you still had the blog. Well, you still have the blog, but you're, you know, blogging and freelance writing, but now it seems like, cause you were very focused on talking about debt and you still are. But what is very

interesting to me, cause you're in the media a lot talking about some other topics, which is like women empowerment, which is, you know, I figure why you started the Lola retreat, which we'll talk about, but also about debt and the intersection between mental health, which I think is so crazy. It's just so prevalent now. I think it's great that more and more people are talking about it, but still in the personal finance space, no one's talking about it. That's why I have you on the show. No one has talked to me about this topic. So, um, Oh, so many things I want to talk to you about. I want to actually talk about the Lola retreat. Cause I remember you talking about, you know, thinking of starting it and now you've done four of them. Can you

explain kind of what this Lola retreat is for anyone who hasn't heard about it? Yeah. Lola retreat is a women in money event. And so pretty much we focus on everything that women should know about money. What are the foundational concepts about budgeting and paying off debt and investing and negotiating that women need to know? Women are living longer. Women are earning more. I really believe that feminism has done so much for women in the past 50 years, but where we're really lagging is financial and economic empowerment. And I really think, you know, there are systemic things that need to change, you know, with the wage gap and the way companies, you know, pay women to kind of close that and to move that forward. But I figured, how can I do my small part to empower women so

that we can try to empower ourselves to earn more, to pay off debt, to have money, to leave bad relationships and bad situations. And so, yeah, we've done four events in the past two years. And like I said, we have kind of the building block concepts of saving, paying off debt, negotiating, investing, but also we typically have some kind of unique content as well. Like this past Lola retreat in Seattle, we had a panel discussion on pursuing FIRE, financial independence, retire early as a single woman, which was really fascinating. And then we also had a talk on what happens to money when you die, like what you need to do with your money before you die. So we had an estate planning attorney come and talk about all of this stuff that we need to prepare for, you know, before we die, before our parents die.

And, you know, I really want to kind of tackle these taboo topics that, you know, aren't really getting covered. And so from a business standpoint, as a value proposition, I always say, with Lola Retreat, I wanna talk about things that no one's talking about. And I also wanna have discussions and content that you can't easily find on the internet. Because why would you pay money for my event? Or why should you pay money for my event if you can easily just Google this?

I wouldn't want you to spend money on my event if you could easily find this on the internet. So I'm always trying to figure out new ways to kind of create content that's interesting. So like also in LA, we had a session on why diet culture is making you broke, you know, because women are often targeted, you know, women are often targeted in the weight loss industry and the beauty industry, and we're spending billions of dollars on keeping up appearances, literally, and it's making us broke, you know, and it's like, we've been conditioned to be this way and we have to be this way in some aspects, but really wanted to kind of dive into some of the predatory nature of that industry and how we can take some of our power back and also some of our money so that we can put it back in our own pockets. Right. And so, like I said, really cover foundational concepts, but also kind of have interesting little panel discussions that are more unique as well. Yeah. No, that sounds amazing. Cause yeah, I'm like, I can't think of a financial conference I've been to or a retreat or anything like that,

that have covered some of those topics that are kind of more specific to women. And I know lots of people don't necessarily, and even me to an extent, don't like the idea of women's issues. But let's be honest, we are different than men. And we do have different struggles or different things that affect us compared to men. Even when you mentioned the fire, I'm like, when I'm thinking about fire, honestly, I think of just a bunch of white men. I don't know a ton of women, like individual women on that journey, either they're in a couple or it's just a guy. And I'm like, why is that?

Yeah. And you know, that session was actually so illuminating for me too, because obviously like I curated that session because I knew that it was going to be juicy and interesting and provide concepts and ideas that aren't really talked about in the FIRE community. But they brought up some things that I was like, oh, wow, I didn't even think about that. But Michelle Jackson, who's African-American, she brought up the fact that she's also going to probably have to take care of her mom. And that's something that a lot of people of color have to do that unfortunately white people don't really talk about or necessarily think about and so if you're on your fire journey and you have to care for somebody else that's going to affect your finances and also another person mentioned

taking care of stepchildren or if you have chronic health issues these are all things that need to be considered or if you have children and you take time off, you know, all of these things affect your financial journey and are completely different in things that I think men don't necessarily think about. And so that was really illuminating for me. Like, oh, wow. Like, you know, we think of fire as like this solitary journey or maybe in a couple, but a lot of people, the situations

are more nuanced. They're taking care of family members, taking care of stepchildren. They're dealing with chronic housing issues. They're dealing with global warming issues and worrying about weather and having to move. I mean, there's so many nuanced situations that I think aren't necessarily displayed in personal finance media. And I see this all the time when I look at the scholarship applications for Lola, because we do try to offer as many scholarships as possible. And I'm very proud to say that 20% of women came on scholarship for Lola Seattle. And just reading the applications, you're like, oh my gosh, personal finance is so nuanced and the way people have to deal with money and their health and their family and their situation. And it's just, I feel like it's not really represented

very well in the personal finance media. And so it's been a really great way to get women together in a variety of different situations and talk about these very nuanced situations. Absolutely. And from my perspective being still, you know, still a personal finance, you know, blogger and podcaster, when I, the kind of workshops or conferences or retreats that I think of, they're actually more focused on like being an influencer, you know, like I went to FinCon, it was great, has nothing to do with actually learning about the concepts of personal finance. So some people would be like, oh, okay. So I feel like the Lola Retreat is one of the few ones that actually exist that are like, no, no, no. We just talk about money. We're not talking about how to make money online or whatever like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We definitely, we talk

about money and we want to educate women and also create community. My two biggest goals with Lola Retreat are to educate women and give them the financial resources and tools they may not know about. And then also build a community because I've, you know, with my blog, I found that accountability through my community, but you know, through Lola, I want to create that in-person community. And it was so great because after the first Lola Retreat, I was talking to one of the attendees who came to the second Lola Retreat and she said, oh yeah, I met three of my best friends at the first Lola Retreat. We check in every month about our finances and we can't wait to do our in-person check-in at Lola New York. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is exactly

the kind of thing that I want to happen where people build their own micro communities, their own accountability groups, their new friends, their little groups of chatting. That's exactly what I want. And I also just wanted to quickly address, you know, kind of your point about like women's issues and women's events. And like, you know, I've definitely had people be like, why is it just for women? Like, is that reverse sexist? Like what's going on? And, and, you know, what I say and what I say, and like, there's data to back this up is that when women are in a group of men, number one, they're less likely to speak up. And number two, when they do, they're more likely to be interrupted. And if my main goal is to have honest conversations about money, unfortunately, like I need to create a space where

women feel comfortable to actually speak up and B, they're not going to be interrupted. So, you know, that's just the data that I'm working with. It's not like, oh, I'm being reverse sexist. Like, oh, I hate men. Or like, it's like, that's not the case with any of it. But, you know, just coming from that data, I'm like, okay, this is the kind of space that I need if I really want to have those deep, honest, intimate conversations that people aren't having.

100%. And even just like looking back at like what was very helpful for me to really feel confident about personal finance is really the relationships I made with other women in personal finance. Because I did find whenever I was in a situation talking to a bunch of men who were, you know, very intelligent and were, you know, maybe advanced in personal finance, I felt like I didn't speak up enough. I didn't ask questions. I felt, you know, it wasn't the same as if I were with a group of women. It is like there is a big difference. And it's not saying like it's bad to hang out with God.

It's just like it is different. And so let's acknowledge that. Yeah, totally, totally. And see that your experience is mirroring exactly, you know, what I was saying for sure. Absolutely. So I want to talk about the stuff that you're doing, which I think is so important in this day and age when mental health is finally, I think, getting more of a spotlight, which it should, because I feel like every single person ever knows at least one, if not two or

three or four people that are dealing with mental health, or maybe they're dealing with mental health issues themselves. Why did you really want to start talking more openly about debt and mental health and how they are connected? Yeah. So, I mean, money and mental health has always really kind of been my focus. You know, I really started Dear Debt, my blog, as a way to deal with my mental health issues with debt and depression because all of 2012, I was crying and deeply depressed and anxious about my student loan debt. And it wasn't until the end of the year when I was like, something has to change. And that's when I started my blog. And I realized that having a platform for me to write out my feelings and address the

emotions related to debt and also kind of create these dear debt letters, which are the breakup letters to debt, kind of have a creative way to talk about my emotions and my, you know, feelings related to debt. And so that was kind of the creative way to deal with that. And then, you know, towards the end of that first year of blogging, you know, as I was more open about my emotions related to debt, my own mental health, I realized that people were Googling, I want to kill myself because of debt and finding my blog. And that was just, you know, such a defining moment for my blog. And I just, I felt so pained that someone would Google that and find my blog. And obviously, if people are Googling that, to me, that's a cry for help and they're looking for something. And so,

you know, I decided to write to that person. I wrote a blog post as if I were talking to that person saying, you know, debt is not a death sentence. It's not worth it. And ever since then, it's just been a complete, you know, barrage of emails from people who are on the brink of suicide because of their debt. And that's what prompted me to start the Suicide Prevention Blog Tour, which I started in 2016 as a way to get my personal finance friends to talk more about this issue because I thought, yes, mental health, as you said, is getting more attention, which I'm super excited about. But mental health specifically with

the intersection of money and also debt and depression, no one's really talking about that intersection. And so for the past four years, I've really been focusing on getting the personal finance community in September, which is Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, to talk about this issue, to write more about this issue. And it's been really great. And because of that, and because of my blog, I've kind of become this accidental money and mental health guru, which I'm totally embracing. And I love it because, I mean, I totally know what it feels like to be so depressed because of your debt and to feel hopeless and to feel anxious.

And, you know, full disclosure, I've had mental health issues before debt and after debt and during debt. And, you know, obviously debt can be a trigger for those things as well. And also it might be situational, but for people like me who already kind of have that predisposition to also have a triggering situation like that, it is a lot. And I think people that don't deal with mental health issues, it's really hard to understand how they work or kind of like, oh, why don't you just feel better? Like it's not that bad or like, you know, it's really easy to kind of write off because you don't know what it feels like in your body and your mind, but it really feels like you're at war with your brain and it feels like nothing is working

and you just feel constantly exhausted and you don't want to do anything. And the level of like helplessness and apathy is so overwhelming. And I really want to address this topic because it's like there's so much great content out there about like how to pay off debt and, you know, should you do the avalanche or snowball method and blah, blah, blah. And like all that stuff is great, but if people literally can't get out of bed because of their debt or because of depression, they're not going to like be reading that. You know, if people, if people are so kind of anxious about everything, like that gets you stuck in, you know, analysis paralysis. And so I really want to focus on the intersection

of debt and depression, money and mental health, because if you don't deal with that, you're not going to take action. And so we have to deal with those things first so that then we can move through and be like, okay, I'm in a better place to deal with this. I feel stable. Now I'm going to focus on what are the strategies and tactics that I need to use to actually pay this off. Absolutely. I mean, I feel like I've dealt with depression, not so much because of debt. When I graduated university and couldn't find a job for a year, I was really, really depressed that year. And it had to do with the lack, like I couldn't provide for myself. I couldn't move out because I didn't have money. I couldn't get a job so I couldn't earn money. I couldn't do anything because I didn't have money. And it had to do with the lack, like I couldn't provide for myself. I couldn't move out because I didn't have money. I couldn't get a job. So I couldn't earn money. I couldn't do anything

because I didn't have money. And it really does affect like how you look at yourself and feel about yourself. You feel embarrassed. You can't tell your friends because they're doing so great. And it just, it's, it's not, yeah, it's, I feel like everyone has that story at least, but it's for people that haven't, I totally agree. They're like, what's the problem? It's like, you can't do anything in life if you aren't okay mentally, you just can't. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, it has so many ramifications physically as well. And like you said, it can really do a number on your self-esteem and your self-worth. I mean, that was like all of me in 2012, I just felt useless. And I was like,

I'm in so much debt. I'm on food stamps, making $10 to $12 an hour. I never thought I'd be in this situation. And like, yeah, it really takes a toll on your self-worth and your self-esteem. And especially in American culture, North American culture, I know you're in Canada, we have this kind of idea that our jobs and our careers and our money are so closely intertwined with our self-worth. And I think we really have to divorce ourselves from that to have any kind of semblance of sanity. And for me, as someone that is ambitious and someone that does want to be financially stable, it's a balancing act of like, okay, I want to achieve all these things. I want to be financially secure, but also like I'm my own person separate from that. If all of that were to go away, I'd still exist. I'm still a good person. I still have family and friends. Who am I without all of those things? And I think it's really a difficult task to do that.

Yeah. I like that. Who am I outside of the context of money? And I think it's really a difficult task to do that. Yeah. I like that. Who am I outside of the context of money? And I feel like, yeah, another time in my life that actually did deal with the depression. Now looking back, I'm like, no, I did go to a therapist. Um, yeah, I forgot about that a little bit. Um, but it was, it was when me and my husband, we got married, we quit our jobs, we moved to Toronto, big life change. We were so excited. And obviously things never go as you know, you, I thought life change. We were so excited. And obviously things never go as, you know, you, I thought I'd get a job right away. And so would he, and we'd be, you know, living it up. And no, I, I spent a whole year working either unemployed or working terrible jobs that paid me like no money. And man, I was so embarrassed. I was ashamed. I thought

I was such a loser. I'm like, I can't go back home to Vancouver and tell my friends that I'm not doing okay. And that's when I'm like, you know what? I don't think I have the tools to do anything on my own. I think I have to find professional help. And that honestly, like really changed the game for me. Absolutely. So I want to talk a little bit about when people come to you or you're talking to people and they're suffering with this, what are some steps that they can, like, how can they help themselves? Well, first of all, I try to ask them about their situation because obviously everyone's situation is different from a financial standpoint. You know, I'm not a financial advisor. And so I have to be kind of careful and be like, you know, I'm just giving you

tips and recommendations, but I'm not a professional. But, you know, first and foremost, if people are Googling that and emailing me, I'm scared for their life. And so I encourage them to text the crisis text line, which here in America is 741-741. And that is a wonderful text-based service where, you know, you can talk to a crisis counselor. And I really like the crisis text line because you can be in any form of crisis, not necessarily suicidal. I think sometimes people are feeling in crisis, but they're not suicidal. So they feel like there's not help for them. So I really like that resource. And I also give them the hotline for the National Suicide Prevention Hotline as well. And I have had people tell me that they have contacted those services and felt better

afterwards. So that has been great. So I try to kind of get them to contact them first. And if they don't, sometimes I just email back and forth and they're just telling me their story and I listen. And you'll be so surprised at how disarming it can be to just be a listening ear for someone who's in crisis because people just really want to be seen and heard. And so many of these people, they're like, my wife doesn't know.

My family doesn't know. My friends don't know. I can't talk to anybody about this. They're just living in a shame spiral and they feel so suffocated by this shame and this denial and even some of the secrecy around debt and depression. And they're emailing some rando stranger on the internet, me, and like half the time they're like, oh, I didn't know you were real or, oh, I didn't think you would respond. And I'm like, no, I'm real. And yes, I will respond. And it's just been amazing to see like, wow, sometimes just a quick conversation

over email and like listening can really kind of take some of the edge off, you know, to be like, wow, I'm not alone. Wow. I'm not crazy. Cause we all just want to get our feelings validated and our experiences validated. And when you're feeling so lonely like that, and you feel like you're just at a fever pitch of like, I can't go on anymore. For someone to be like, I hear you and I've been there and I know how awful it is, but it can get better if you can just try to hang in there for a little while longer. Like I'm here to chat. Here's also some other resources.

And, you know, I always encourage people if, you know, they have student loans, try to get on an income driven repayment plan, which can lower your payments, look into forbearance or deferment. There's also the nonprofit credit counseling foundation, you know, look into resources. There's also financial therapists as well, who can really kind of help kind of both issues as well. And so always trying to provide resources and be a listening ear for people. Yeah. I think a lot of people like kind of just on the money side, don't realize that if you feel overwhelmed, you just cannot fix your financial situation on your own. There are nonprofit credit counseling services in America, in Canada that are free because they're nonprofits.

And so, and they're there to help and they're like their job. And I know, cause I know a ton of them, they've been doing it for decades. Their job is to help people just like nonprofits. And so and they're there to help and they're like their job. And I know because I know a ton of them, they've been doing it for decades. Their job is to help people just like you. And so you know, no money up front. But I know that is a big concern of lots of people dealing with issues like that. They're afraid that they cannot afford professional help, like if they want to go see like an actual mental health therapist or counselor or something like that. And yeah, when I went to see a counselor, I was shocked to find that I was working at the time. My company benefits did not cover it. So I was not making a ton of money at the time, but I really needed it. So I had to fork over like 150 bucks for an one hour session. It was life changing. But at the time, I'm like, can I afford this? Yeah, it's a lot of money. And it's a lot of money when you feel like

I'm depressed and I have no money, but I don't have money to talk to someone. And one way that I got around that when I was in Portland was I was so grateful to find out from a friend that the local college had a counseling program where they need kind of clinical hours before they graduated. And so I was able to go to this graduate counseling program at Portland State University and have like a $15 an hour session. But then I was able to negotiate it to $5 a session because I was on food stamps at the time. So I recommend like if there's a school in your area, a lot of those, you know, kind of would be therapists are like one semester away from being licensed. They need their clinical hours. You know, it's at least someone to talk to and it's more affordable.

And then there's also a 12-step program called Debtors Anonymous. Obviously, I've never been and, you know, it's an anonymous program, which you're not supposed to talk about if you have been. But I encourage people to check it out and see, you know, about that resource as well. And also talk to your community if there's a church in your area, like whatever kind of community resources might be helpful. But for me, I was able to find help that was affordable through the local graduate school counseling program. And then now I found my therapist through openpathcollective.org, which provides therapy sessions between $30 and $80 a session. I'm going to have to do some research for everybody listening in Canada to see

what we've got here. But I think it's just to show there are actually so many things. You do have to do a little digging or just ask around people that you feel comfortable about. But like, for instance, like the university thing that you mentioned, like, I wouldn't have really thought about that, but I guarantee lots of universities provide services like that. Yeah. I had no idea. And it wasn't until, you know, one of my friends was like, oh yeah, I'm going to see this therapist. And I was like, oh, where? Cause I need help too. And he was like, oh, it's actually at the local college and it's really affordable. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, how did I never know about this? And you know, it was such a game changer for me because like, yeah, at that point I was making $12 an

hour. There was no way that I could afford typical therapy. And like, I was grateful that they were even able to negotiate $15 a session to five. So, you know, sometimes these kind of underground resources need to come to light. And so, you know, sharing them with people and just getting the word out there is kind of really important. Absolutely. Um, since you do the suicide prevention awareness blog tour, I would love to know, uh, you don't have to name names or whatever, but some kind of stories that maybe people can relate to that are, you know, some other bloggers are writing about, because I'm assuming like, it's all about you sharing your story. Is that kind of the premise? Yeah. So, you know, I share my story and my family's stories. So my grandfather also died

by suicide. And so one of the years, I think two years ago, my mom wrote a very touching and compelling post about her experience, you know, with her father dying by suicide and what it meant. And then for the people that participate in the blog tour, it's been really fascinating because obviously we have some people that just kind of speak generically on the topic. And then I've had some people who email me and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you're doing this. Like my neighbor died by suicide because he was in a lot of mortgage debt and he was stressed out or, you know, oh, my brother died by suicide and I've never really been able to talk about it. And like, this has been the perfect platform to do that. And so it's, it's so crazy. Once you open

that like door, the floodgates just come open and people come out of the woodwork with their own stories. Like, oh, my colleague, oh, my brother, oh, my mom, oh, my dad. And you're like, this is such a pervasive issue that no one's talking about. And so that's been the most kind of compelling thing for me with the suicide prevention blog tour is having people tell me their personal stories about either themselves or their family members or their colleagues that they've not really felt comfortable to share until this moment in time. And they've been able to use their personal story to connect with others. And like the main point of the blog tour is to show people you are not alone, that there have

been other people that have been in this experience, and here are some resources to get help. You know, I think sharing your personal story is so powerful. And I think that's kind of the reason I've gotten to this place of, like I said, becoming an accidental money and mental health guru, which I'm super happy to, you know, continue to talk about because it's something I'm very passionate about. And I think there needs to be more light on this issue. Absolutely. And just like you said, you're not alone. Like people that read your blog, when you're an individual reading like your blog, you may not know this, but thousands of other people are doing the exact same thing, which means you're not alone.

We're all doing the same thing. Yes. And we're all kind of in this together, right? Like something that I just want to tell people, like debt is so pervasive. Like debt is a national pastime. So really like debt is the status quo. So you should never even feel alone or ashamed because that's the norm to chat with me. You do have your book still out, Dear Debt, which I think is such a great read. Where can they find more

information about you and your book if they want to continue this? You can check me out at deardebt.com and also get my book, Dear Debt, on Amazon and also check out lowellerretreat.com as well. And I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Melanie Locker. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for chatting with me. And that was episode 212 with Melanie Locker. Make sure to check her out at deardet.com and grab a copy of her book. I'm going to share some info on how you can actually win a free copy of her book soon.

But first, I actually wanted to share because I did do a little research after this recording, because she mentioned so many great resources for if you were listening, and you were like, yes, this is me, I need some help. Where can I look and you are not based out of the US, I have a few options if you're based out of Canada. So one of the resources she mentioned was crisis text line. So it is actually an international organization, which is great. So you can go to crisis text line.org. But there are text lines available in the UK and Canada as well as the US. So make sure to check them out your location or your postal address and they'll have a whole list of options and therapists for you, which is really great. Another great resource is the lifeline Canada.ca. If you just go to that website, it will actually be able to show you a number of different, you know, crisis services and support telephone lines in all these different provinces in Canada. Also the US, China, England, France, India, Ireland,

Japan. Now, Oh my gosh, it goes on and on and on. So for lots of different countries, it has kind of that whole list of different, um, phone numbers you can call if you were looking for some, uh, suicide prevention help. So I, you know, I'm pretty open about kind of my own kind of path and, um, struggles with mental health. I feel like honestly, all of us have struggled at one point or another. I also have family members that struggle with mental health. It is very serious. So first, as we kind of reiterated in the show, hopefully it came across, you're not alone. Never feel alone. This is why I do the podcast because I know, number one, I'm not alone. You're listening and you're not alone because you're listening with a lot of other people that are listening. We're all in this together. So if you

know that this has been a big struggle for you, if you know that you need help because you aren't okay with how you're living your life right now, there is help. There's nothing wrong with seeking help. I've gone to see a counselor for some therapy because I was dealing with some stuff and I could not deal with it on my own. And it literally changed everything for me. It really, really impacted my life and my future in such a positive way. So I'm such a big advocate for seeking help if you need it. Because guess what? We're all human. We're all in this world together. And sometimes we need some help. So that is just my little PSA on mental health. I hope you really enjoyed this episode. I have some very important things to share with you in just a moment. I just have a few words I want to

share about this episode's podcast sponsor. When's the last time you learned something new? And I'm not talking about some new skill for work or something you needed to know. When's the last time that you learned something that you've always wanted to know more about? Well, I'm almost certain that The Great Courses Plus probably has a course on whatever that may be. You see, The Great Courses Plus is an online education streaming service that hosts thousands of lectures on virtually any topic you can think of, even those you might not think of, all presented by top professors. Dive into money management, communication skills, even learn to play an instrument or how to

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thegreatcoursesplus.com slash Mo Money. Once again, that's thegreatcoursesplus.com slash Mo Money. Okay, first and foremost, I wanna give away copies of Melanie's book Dear Debt because it's a wonderful book and I feel like everyone should read it so it is called Dear Debt I'm giving away several copies and you can check out the show notes for this episode jessicamorehouse.com slash 212 212 or you can just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contests and you can find actually all the contests at that link that I'm giving. I'm

giving away a ton of books for this podcast seasons or whatever, basically get an author on the show. I'm going to give away some copies of their book because I'm nice and I like to give away books. I like to spread the love. So make sure to go to JessicaMurhouse.com slash contests or check the show notes, JessicaMurhouse.com slash 212 to find out more info. And some of the links that I mentioned, if you're like, I will get to that later, check the show notes, JessicaMurhouse.com slash 212 to find out more info. And some of the links that I mentioned, if you're like, I will get to that later, check the show notes. I will have those in there for you to help you. Now, we also talked a lot about support and community in this episode. Well, guess what? That is why a big reason why I started my own Facebook group is because I

didn't want people to feel like they were alone. They know everyone's struggling with money. Everyone's struggling with money. Okay. And so and so I have a Facebook group called money, life balance. Uh, you just go to facebook.com slash group slash money, life balance. There's also some links, um, on my website. So you can find that and join us. There's over 2000 members. We're all about asking questions, supporting each other, helping each other out, and just seeing what other people are thinking about struggling with talking about. It's a good old time, all about positive vibes, uh, helping each other. Uh, yeah, it's just a good old time. So hope to see you in there. If you also want to keep in the know of all of the things, events, webinars, the, all the crazy things that I come up with,

and I do, um, just get onto my email list. I tell everybody on my email list first, what I am up to on the weekly. And that includes like, if you want to keep in touch with me to be like what videos and podcast episodes and blog posts and, and everything in between are coming out. Cause sometimes I like have a bunch of stuff that come out weekly. Like, yeah, I like I'm on the YouTube. I've got this podcast. I've got blog posts going out. I'm doing so many different things. It's hard to keep up quite honestly, I need a vacation. But you can do that by going on to my email list, jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe. And also, when you're on my email list, you can also sign up to access my free resource library. So I've got a bunch of free, you know, past webinars, free downloads,

worksheets, checklists, spreadsheets, videos, all in my free resource library. So you can go to JessicaMorris.com slash resources to check that out. But also if you just sign up to my email list, you'll get an email from me being like, Hey, thanks for joining the party. And then there will also be information on all of that. Okay, that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening. Um, this was a pretty amazing, but heavy episode. So I appreciate you sticking around. I it's one of my favorite episodes. Like I just, Melanie's amazing. I I'm so glad she was able to join us. I hope you really enjoyed this episode too. If you did well, if you wouldn't mind taking a few seconds to leave me an iTunes review and I will give you a shout out on a future episode, I promise.

I would love you forever. That'd be, that'd be really nice of you. And you know what? It's nice to meet a nice, it's nice to be nice. Okay. That is it for me. Thanks so much for listening again. I will see you back here next Wednesday with a fresh new episode of the Mo Money

Podcast. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.