More Money Podcast - 226 How to Make Money as a Full-Time YouTuber - Marko Zlatic, Host of the WhiteBoard Finance YouTube channel

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

You hear all the time that these YouTubers started a channel just for fun, then a few years later…BAM they’re doing it full-time and raking in the dough! Is it true or is it just hype? Wanting to get to the bottom of this, for this episode of the podcast I talk to Marko Zlatic, the YouTuber behind the popular WhiteBoard Finance channel, to find out how he was able to quit his day job in finance to run his channel full-time in just a few years. I was lucky enough to have met Marko at FinCon 2019, and I was shocked to learn later that his channel was huge! Not only that, the advice he gives in his video is actual quality, with tons of well-researched and explained videos. A rarity with all the click-bait hype channels that are really just trying to sell you something or promote some get-rich-quick dream. So, how does he do it? Putting in the work for years without seeing a dollar, creating quality videos on topics people want the answers too, and of course, there’s the X factor that just makes him stand-out and keep his viewers coming back for more. Besides chatting about his channel, we also discussed some of his tips from his top videos, such as how to not get scammed at the car dealership and how to survive the next recession. If you’re just getting into YouTube and are looking for some quality personal finance channels to follow, make sure to subscribe to WhiteBoard Finance (and why not my channel while you’re at it). For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/226 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Momentum Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and welcome to episode 226 of the show. For this episode, I have got a great interview for you. I am interviewing Marco Zlatik. He is the YouTuber behind Whiteboard Finance, and he started his channel just a few years ago and he's doing pretty well while he was still working full-time in the financial services industry because he wanted to basically have a way to share actionable content that enables viewers to create wealth. And he has a ton of videos on his channel on real estate investing, stock market investing, entrepreneurship, and just general personal finance. And he has a very interesting background and just a really nice guy. And honestly, I met him at FinCon. He came up to

me and introduced himself after my presentation and was just lovely. We kept in touch and I knew I needed to have him on the show because he's just a great guy, full of energy, and really, he knows his stuff. And I just knew you'd like him. Okay, I just knew you'd like him. So without further ado, we'll get to that interview. But I just have a few words to share about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money podcast is supported by EQ Bank. I've been a customer of EQ Bank for over three years. And it's no surprise why I've been such a loyal customer. Their EQ Bank Savings Plus account offers the flexibility of a checking account with free transactions, no everyday banking fees, no minimum balances, and fast, cheap international money

transfers, while still offering one of the highest interest rates in Canada for savings accounts at 2.45%. In other words, there are no fees, you can move your money around between accounts and other banks freely, and did I mention you'll earn 2.45% on all of your deposits? Because of that, EQ Bank is where I choose to house my emergency fund and money I save up throughout the year for my taxes. And to be totally transparent, since I started banking with them in 2017, I've earned a total of $1,121.82 in interest just by letting my money sit in there until I needed it. So the question remains, how much are you earning on your savings? If it's less than 2.45%, why not see if EQ Bank is right for you? To learn more and to open an account, visit EQBank.ca. Once again, that's EQBank.ca. Interest for joining me on the Mo Money Podcast. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. So the first time I met you was at FinCon. And that was lovely because it was the first time we met and then I instantly started following you on YouTube and I really enjoy your videos. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Yeah, I follow you as well. And it was actually a pleasure meeting you in person because I did do a lot of research into all the personal finance bloggers. And you're one of the first people that came up when I was doing my research. And I kind of just did like that creepy stocky thing before you get to know people. I'm like, oh my God, it's actually her. So yeah, I didn't, I didn't show that enthusiasm when I met you, but I felt like you did. I'm like, you know who I am. Okay. I'm like, that's cool that I feel, I feel famous, but you just did your research and knew who I was, but I felt good about it.

Thank you. Thank you. But I mean, you're kind of a big deal on YouTube. I mean, you put my YouTube channel to shame. I'm a little baby YouTuber, just started pretty much, but you have a huge audience and some really, what I appreciate, which is why I wanted you on the show is there's a ton of, I would say, similar channels in terms of like branding where they're like, I talk about personal finance and investing in entrepreneurship. And then you actually watch their videos and the content is lacking. And I, you know, after watching some of your videos, I'm like, there we go. Someone who actually knows what they're talking about

is actually providing like good information or good facts. And do your research. Hard to find on YouTube. There's a lot of people that talk that talk but don't actually know or just giving like bad advice like honestly and it drives me crazy that people are actually giving like bad advice. So I appreciate you taking the time to research and do your videos well. Yeah, I really appreciate that. I'm glad you say that and it's kind of like a breath of fresh air hearing it from another practitioner or another person that's in the space. Just because I noticed that a lot of YouTubers and I'm not, you know, talking smack, I'm glad that there's a lot of them out there. It's just that I noticed a lot of them don't really come from a background of what they're teaching. So as a practitioner, so, you know, I worked in finance, I have a finance degree,

I've, you know, done pretty much everything under the sun in regards to, you know, commercial lending, commercial real estate, things like that. And I've also been investing since, you know, 2006, since I was 18 years old. So I think that YouTube is a platform that is getting a lot of reach. But just to your audience, I think that they should be very selective of who they kind of take their advice from, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. You do have to do kind of just like any, you know, whenever you're doing research for like bloggers or even podcasters, you do have to do your due diligence to be like, who is this person and should I trust the information that they're giving? And I found, especially when it's someone younger who is enthusiastic that also talks

about entrepreneurship, and it sounds like, oh, well, this sounds interesting, and why not? And then you just start watching their videos, and it's a lot of filler. And at the end, they just kind of point you to like, and how you get, and it's a lot of get rich quick, or the only way to get rich is to buy real estate. And look at me in my boat. And you're like, what is this? Who are you and who is buying this stuff that people are watching these videos? So I mean, obviously, you're very talented in that with lots of your titles for your videos.

You're like, oh, it sounds a bit clickbaity. You have the one which I actually really liked about the 2020 recession. You're like, oh, what is this? But I'm like, oh, actually, all that information is accurate and good advice. Thank God. Yeah. That's the key to YouTube. It's kind of your thumbnails and your title. You got to bring them in. But I think that people stick around to your content and also to mine just because they see that we do have the best interest without an ulterior motive for our audience. And I think that just the way that I can speak for myself, but you do this as well. You do things that are in a very easily digestible format.

And I think that's what people like. They feel like finance, personal finance specifically, and investing is very intimidating. And I think the way that my audience has told me the way that I break it down is just, you know, it's in layman's terms, anyone that, you know, can speak English, or maybe English is even their second language can understand what I'm teaching. So it's kind of like I'm that professor, if you will. So I take a lot of pride in that and I treat my audience viewership. I hold it very dearly to my heart just because you and I have probably seen a lot of channels out there that just, you know, after a year or two, they just start, you know, shilling affiliate links and, you know, hey, check out this new coffee that I'm sponsored by. And it's just like, what?

Yeah. Kind of straight away from your original message there. Yeah, exactly. Like there's this one recently I was considering and I'm not going to do it anymore, but I had this idea over the Christmas break. I'm like, oh, you know, there's so many channels out there that do kind of reaction videos. Well, there's so many of these finance or entrepreneurship channels. It'd be interesting to do a reaction and be like, is their advice actually good? I'm not going to do that because I'm like, there's too much like copyright stuff that

I have to worry about. So I'm not going to do that. But yeah, while doing research, there's so much stuff where you watch an entire video and at the end it's, I'm like, what is the point? Oh, oh, you just, you're just trying to sell me something. There we go. There it is. I was waiting for it. And that's okay because we are taking the time to, you know, we're making these videos for free. You're making your blog post for free. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. But give me some actual value. Don't just be like, string me along until you're like, but to actually know the secret to X, Y, and Z, you have to buy this. And you're like, give me something.

Yeah. So I know I probably went on the, I just hold this dearly to my heart. I didn't want to start the podcast with like a negative note. No, no, no, no. Yeah, I think it's important just for your listeners to, like you said, just do the proper due diligence, make sure that the source is verifiable, and just make sure that they have your best interest in hand. Yeah, well, with any kind of, I feel like, information out there, especially if it's like free, it's not by like a school or anything like that, Take everything with a grain of salt. And also realize that sometimes it is someone's opinion. Personal finance sometimes isn't so black and white. Sometimes it is people's opinions. And so I appreciate that. You have a video, which is all about how Dave Ramsey is wrong about credit cards. It's not necessarily that you're wrong, he's wrong, you're right, he's right. There's different opinions, different approaches to things. And I think that's also

important to realize in personal finance. There's different ways to do things to get maybe similar results. And that doesn't mean anyone's wrong or a hack. I mean, sometimes it does, but sometimes not. Agreed 100%. And people have to realize that personal finance is personal. So it all boils down to what's going on in your life and your situation. And I think that's kind of the beauty of it because that's why there are so many varying opinions because not all life situations are the same. So I think it was in your 2020 recession video, you mentioned that you did quit your job in finance to do your YouTube channel full time.

That's crazy. And props. It is. And I, to be quite honest with you, Jessica, I was, uh, I don't know if you're allowed to swear on this podcast. I'm not going to, whatever you want to do. I was, I was crapping myself when I put in my two weeks, uh, notice. Um, so basically I had a video that did very well in April. So I wanted to give it, you know, a couple months, two and a half, three months, you know, just to make sure I'm making the right decision. And the revenue was consistent. The viewership was consistent. Um, so I decided, you know, in the middle of June, I said, you know what, it's a one-time shot. You know, I don't have any debt right now. You know, my wife has works full-time, so we have health insurance. Let's do it. You know, it's now or never. So I put in my two weeks in the middle of June and went full time on YouTube on July 1st.

Wow. And I guess it's been going well as they like, because that's it, I guess it's fairly recently. It hasn't been a year yet, but. No, it hasn't. It's been about, I want to say seven, eight months, but yeah, knock on wood, everything's going well. I think that as long as you put out good content, people will stick around and the algorithm will promote your videos if there is viewership and shareability and smashing the like button, all those things that we're taught to say. But yeah, it definitely is a grind because I did start in November of 2017.

That's not that long ago. That's pretty amazing. No, it took about a year and a half from, you know, kind of just grinding to, you know, the channel kind of, you know, quote, unquote, blowing up. But yeah, I think for anyone that's trying to get out of, you know, the quote, unquote, rat race, or maybe just improve their side hustle income. I truly believe that YouTube is the best business model out there just because the overhead is so low. I'm literally a one-man team and my media company or my YouTube channel, I mean, it provides a decent living. So I mean, I can't complain. So it's definitely doable as long as you have an internet connection and a cell phone, you can definitely create a YouTube channel.

So yeah, I kind of want to talk a little bit about youtube we'll talk about finance soon but i i'm so curious because i haven't had really any uh you know really popular youtubers on this show and i'm very curious because it is uh me coming from a background where i started blogging which now i feel like blogging i mean their blog still exists but i feel like it's almost like that's the old school way of content creation, right? And then I started the podcast about five years ago. And at that point, too, when I started the podcast, I thought I was late to the game. But actually, I was just like kind of at the start of kind of this new wave of podcasting. And now YouTube, I feel like I only just started watching YouTube videos in the in like the spring, which is I know late

to the party much. And for me, I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's this huge world this huge opportunity, all these on it. And for me, too, I actually am a very visual person. So I'm not sure why it took me so long to figure out that YouTube is great. You can learn so much from so many different people. And like you said, it's almost easier to do this than to start a blog because you don't need to have a website or hosting or anything. You just need to have like, you know, canvas so you can make those thumbnails and then yeah, a camera or a phone and you're ready to go as long as you have something important to say, which is pretty amazing. Yeah, absolutely. And you're 100% right. I think the best analogy is that YouTube is kind of where blogs were about 10 years ago,

if that makes sense. So in terms of being able to rank for certain search terms, you know, certain videos that you're putting out, you know, something that I would never be able to rank for in a million years on a blog being relatively new, I can rank for tomorrow potentially on YouTube just because it's just kind of like the new kid in town or the new show in town. Now I want to pick your brain because I'm personally curious, but I'm sure other people listening are thinking about like starting a side hustle or, you know, content. I feel like it's great for me. The reason I was able to, you know, quit my day job is similar to you is because I was able to create a platform and have an audience and create content and all that stuff. So if someone wants to do something similar to you, maybe not in finance or maybe in finance, but just like start YouTube, you were able to kind of grow your channel, I feel like in a very short amount of time. What did you do right? Like what should people know about starting a YouTube channel to do it on the right foot? Yeah, that's a great question. I think that there's definitely best practices that you can

follow. But at the end of the day, my biggest piece of advice is that it's called a YouTube for a reason. You simply just need to be yourself. If you try and mimic other people and not stay in your own lane, and I mean that in a positive way. You're just going to blend in with the crowd. You know, the people that stand out are really the ones that resonate with your message and then their audience resonates with their message. Excuse me. I think I said that backwards. Basically, yeah, it sounded good, right? No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, if you have your own message, people gravitate towards your message. There's fans of Dave Ramsey. There's fans of Graham Stephan. There's fans of, Ramsey. There's fans of Graham Stephan. There's fans of, you know, my buddy Ryan Scribner, Nate O'Brien, for example.

They all provide a different type of messaging, and that's why they have their own specific audience. It's kind of just like music, you know. Some people may love the Rolling Stones, but they hate the Beatles, right, and vice versa. So I think that as long as you follow best practices of good thumbnails, good titles, bringing value in every single video that you make and not expecting a penny in return for at least two years, that's the recipe for success in my opinion. And that's pretty much what I was taught or learned when I started in a blog. And I think the same is for kind of any kind of content

creation platform. It's like focus on good content, be yourself, and hopefully that you're interesting. So that works. Some people aren't meant to be content creators. Like that's just the honest truth sometimes. Or, or maybe one format, not the other, you know what I mean? Not everyone's great on camera. That's another skill you have to develop or talent to have. But yeah, like you said, it's really about being yourself, being that interesting character. I mean, that's why I watch other people's YouTube videos over and over. It's not so much that they're saying something different. For me, because I'm a woman, sometimes I watch makeup videos. And sometimes it's not so much like, I'm going to definitely replicate that makeup look.

Some of them are crazy. I'd never do that. It's the personality, their stories that they're telling while they're doing their, it's, it's all of that and more. So really, so it sounds like what you're kind of saying is maybe do your research on like who is out there and who, you know, in that space that I want to enter and then see where, how could you fit in as a different voice? Absolutely. And I think the best strategy that everyone employs is see what's working for other people in your space in terms of number of views, engagement, shareability, things like that, and just make that video. But put your own twist on it. Don't blatantly plagiarize, but you need to actually provide value in your own way. And I think if you do that, you're kind of filtering out the noise that's not going to work and going straight to the things that people are truly interested in. Absolutely. And I feel like one

tip I may have learned at FinCon or someone else said this, but when you're trying to figure out topics or questions to answer, yeah, you can look at other people's videos. But I feel like if you look at other people's videos comments to see what people are asking, that's also a great way because then you'll be like those people. Maybe something wasn't answered in that video and people want to know the answer. You can make a video about that. Absolutely. And there's a gentleman I attended his seminar at FinCon.

He was a financial advisor. I can't remember his name off the top of my head. I remember a specific slide from their presentation that said if someone asks it once, you know, do X, maybe make a tweet about it. Someone asks it five times, make a blog post about it. If that same question gets asked 25 times, make a podcast about it, you know, and so on and so forth. So piggybacking off of your comment, I think if you see a lot of the same recurring questions in your space, it's definitely time to make a video or a post or a tweet or whatever about that topic. And also too, I feel like one thing I do just to get inspired to try to figure out who should I have it on the guest on the podcast or what

questions should I answer? I go on like forums and Reddit and see what people are talking about. And yeah, similarly, make sure that a lot of people are asking it. And then also go on those platforms like podcasts or YouTube and see, has anyone created content to answer that? And a lot of the times, sure, there's some videos, but not a ton, which makes it similar to what you're saying right now. Sometimes if you kind of can see that there's not a lot of people doing content on that topic, you can rank pretty high on that pretty easily. Absolutely. Yeah. 100% agreed. Yeah. So you mentioned that YouTube has served you well. So can you kind of explain how do you make money with YouTube? So you make content, you put videos up. It's mainly just Google AdSense. And how does that all work?

Yeah. So I'm no different than pretty much 95% of creators that make a full-time earning off of YouTube. So typically a portion of our revenue, if you're looking at our entire business, because there are different facets to it. And I'm not telling you this, you know this, but I'm just speaking to your audience. I'd say a majority of my income does come from Google AdSense. So for those of you that use YouTube, anytime that ad plays, whether it's before, during, or after a video, I get a percentage as a creator from that ad revenue. Now, those are fractions of a penny, but once you add that up over tens of thousands of views, hopefully per day, that small number multiplied by a big number turns into a full-time income number, if that makes

sense. So another portion that a lot of creators use is either coming out with a digital product. So I do look to be creating a digital course here in the next couple of months. I would like to actually create a course on how to start a YouTube channel just because I believe so deeply that it is the best business model in 2020. So digital products are another source of revenue for myself. And then also affiliate links. So say, for example, I create a video reviewing a certain product. Let's call it Fundrise, for example. With Fundrise, it's kind of like a, how do I say it, crowdfunded real estate investment, right?

So I'm a sponsor. I'm running a deal. I'm a real estate developer ready to create brand new apartments, but I can't get lending for whatever reason. So I go to a platform like Fundrise and say, hey, you have all these investors. I'll promise them this return or you can't promise returns, but I project these returns. You know, how about you connect us together? So if I'm doing a review on Fundrise, I can say, hey, Fundrise is a great platform where you can invest in these real real estate projects and you can earn, you know, X amount of return potentially, you know, click on my affiliate link down in the description below. And once they do that, that enables a cookie to be placed in

their browser, which sounds kind of like high tech and secret and, you know, weird, but it's simply just a way to show that, hey, people that came from Marco's video, research Fundrise, they clicked on the link, and now they signed up, Fundrise would then compensate me for bringing them a new user. So that was a very long winded way of saying it's kind of just like affiliate marketing, you know, you're getting a commission as a salesperson for bringing someone to a different platform or purchasing a product, for example. And then I think, I mean, those are the biggest sources of revenue for most people. Some people go down the road of sponsorships, you know, hey, this video was brought to you by SimpliSafe. Check out my new SimpliSafe system and you get a one-time sponsorship fee from that. So all those different things I've implemented in my channel

and it's served me pretty well. But as always, I only talk about things that I truly believe, like, know, and trust and have used myself. And I usually put up my own money when I'm doing these reviews. That way people can see what an actual investment is doing. And that way I'm not just some person shilling affiliate links and saying, Hey, sign up for this so I can pay off my Lamborghini. That's super corny and super shady,

in my opinion. So again, I only invest and promote things that I actually know, like, and trust. Yeah. Which I think is so important too as a content creator because, I mean, I've seen it a lot online. There are some scandals that go on with influencers when it's revealed that they don't actually use the product that they're talking about. I mean, there are so many influencers that continue to promote stuff.

I'm like, there's no possible way that you actually use that. Like, let's be real. You're not using it. And I feel like when you do that, eventually your audience is going to get, I think, annoyed or you're going to kind of taint the trust that you've built with them because then you are going to look like a sellout. And I know there's, I mean, I've been in this space as an influencer for a while, probably before the term influencer existed. And I got a lot of flack for just literally starting to get like sponsorships on my podcast, which is really just an ad, which is like, you know, the radio

does this all the time. And again, similar to you only choose brands that I would actually use or have used or would tell a friend or whatever. But it was very new when I started doing that. And now it's a lot more kind of commonplace, but still, you've got to be careful because you are putting your name on the line and you are associating your name, your brand with something else. So you've got to be careful with that. Absolutely. I think trust takes a lifetime to build and only a second to destroy. But to your point, I think the audience also has to understand from our perspective as content creators, we're taking all this time, energy, effort, headache, blood, sweat, tears. Well, not blood. Well, sometimes maybe you get a paper cut or something if you're taking notes. But all joking aside, the audience needs to realize

they're getting a lot of stuff for free too. So it's our right as the content creator to be able to ask for the business, to be able to get a sponsor on the podcast, to be able to get compensated for doing these reviews. It's only right. So I think a lot of people are starting to appreciate that now, knowing that, hey, you know, ad revenue may not be the biggest source of income, but I will support Jessica. I will support Marco by listening to their sponsor ad or by clicking on their affiliate link. Because once you establish that trust, I mean, at that point, your audience should trust you and they know that you have their best interest at hand. And also, like you said, usually when we're just starting out, we're not making any money for years. Like I didn't monetize my blog for like three or four

years. That's a lot of time. You know how many hours? And similar to you, I'm like, how many hours did you spend before you saw your first dollar of revenue? Like thousands of hours? Yeah. So if that, I'm not sure if that's a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway. Yeah, please. If you know the number, let me know. Yeah. So like I said, I started in November of 17. So for the people that don't know the history of YouTube and some of the ad revenue drama that happened with it. Ooh, tell me. I don't know if I know that.

Yeah, there was a big scandal. It's called Adpocalypse. So there's a lot of stuff going on with very unsavory things going on in the comment section of children's videos to where a lot of sponsors or excuse me, a lot of people that were purchasing ads on YouTube just simply backed out and didn't want their brand associated with these videos because of the comments and things like that. So YouTube actually started in November of 17. When I started making videos, they brought in all these different requirements of you have to have, you know, 4000 hours of watch time and 1000 subscribers before you can monetize. And I blew past that right away

because I had a video that went semi-viral in December of 17. So I was ready to monetize after literally a month. And I'm like, let's go, let's get it monetized. I want to start making money. My channel was under review because of all the unsavory activity all across the board, not specifically my channel, just anyone trying to get monetized in that time period, it was under review for six months. So I didn't make a penny until June of 18. Wow. Yeah. So I'm making these videos, busting my butt, you know, editing, you know, coming home from a full-time job, you know, editing till midnight, recording till midnight. And then I didn't see a penny until June. And then when that, once I did get monetized, this isn't life changing money. You know, I still had a full-time job. You know, I worked in a commercial real estate at the time. Um, and then finally, you know, you start

to, it's like a big wheel, you get the big wheel turning, you get some inertia, some momentum. And that's when you start to see your ad revenue start to go up and you start making more money. It's just like any other endeavor. If you're a salesperson, you're going to eat a lot of crap in the beginning. But once you establish a book of business, that's when you start to make more money and quote unquote, less effort for the money, if that makes sense. And I feel like still like your situation, like that seems like a pretty quick, you know, start point to where you were able to quit your job and do this full time for lots of people I know can take years. So sometimes you have to make that decision. Should I and do I want to continue doing this for a couple more years? Because maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. It's a hard

decision, believe you me. And sometimes it may not be the right thing for you to do. And sometimes you just have to kind of stick it out and things will work out. There's no guarantees though. So it is a risk you have to take. Yeah. That's why I tell everyone, if you're starting YouTube to make money, you're going to fail. You're going to quit a hundred percent. And people are going to see through you too. I feel like, you know, those people that just want to make money. I can't stand those people. I can spot them from a mile away. Yeah, they'll never last. And the reason I say that is because unless you're doing this as a passion project, which is how Whiteboard Finance started, just simply wanting to teach people financial literacy, you're never going to last because you're in it for the money. Because when

you don't see monetization after six months or a year or a year and a half, you're like, screw this. Why am I even doing this? But if you're in it just because you simply want to help, I think everything comes back around in life from a karma aspect. And I'm living proof of it. So I don't know. Maybe I just got lucky, but I don't think so. No, probably not. I think you're smart. You knew what you're doing. You just stuck it out and did it. I want to pivot a bit because I know you have a lot of videos on real estate and you mentioned that's part of your background working in commercial real estate. Is that also something, I guess, that is part of your own personal portfolio, your real estate investor?

So I have a video on my channel talking about... So to answer your question, I don't currently own any real estate just because I divested of all my rental properties. So, yeah, I was a partner in three units. It was a double and a single. And then we also built a few new construction spec homes. So spec is just speculative. We didn't have an end buyer in mind when we built them. And we built these in Northeast Ohio.

And, you know, we sold them for a pretty penny. It was nice. Market started to tick up. So at the time of this recording, I don't own any real estate. However, my wife and I are looking to buy a nice forever home. And then I do have money set aside to start buying up property once the market kind of stabilizes or actually corrects a bit. I think right now just everything is a little bit insane just because the Federal Reserve just keeps printing money. So it's inflating the prices of all assets all across the board. And I think you're in Toronto, which is just, it's like laughable, the prices of real estate over there. So. Yeah. Like we bought our, and it's so funny too,

because real estate is still something that I am certainly not an expert in. I find it very fascinating and I definitely do want to, you know, we own our townhouse, but we definitely, I have dreams. I've always had dreams since I was in my twenties of owning multiple properties, renting them out long-term so we can have that passive income in retirement, but just have not taken the plunge. And I think part of it is like, I am waiting for this real estate market to calm down and it has not at all. And I don't know when it's going to. So that's the other thing too is, and I know you have lots of videos about, you know, when's the next recession or anything like that. Do you find it difficult to kind of like have these plans and just sit and wait? Because I hear a lot from younger people too. They're like, I'm just, you know, saving cash and waiting for the next

recession to start investing. But it's tricky because no one can really know when it will happen. Yeah, that's true. That's a good question. So the reason I'm sitting on cash right now is because I'm looking to purchase a forever home, not a home as an investment. It's a home for my wife and I to raise a family in, which is a little bit different. If you're in your early 20s and you got your first big boy or big girl job and you're starting to make some money, I still feel that you should invest in the market, even though I think that equity markets are very overpriced right now just because of 10 and a half years of pretty much 0% interest rates and just money printing by the Fed. But ultimately, I think that to answer your question, I think that it is, I think savers are losers right now because interest rates are so low. It doesn't make sense to be sitting on,

you know, a hundred grand cash in your money market account making 1.79% just because, you know, inflation is roughly two percent a year. The CPI, Consumer Price Index, which measures inflation, hasn't really been that high. However, I think that middle class is getting crushed just because wages have stayed stagnant for so many years now while the price of everything else has gone up. And not only that, just to be considered middle class now, instead of just having, you know, 20 years ago, you had a car and cable television and you know, while you considered middle class. Now, instead of just having, you know, 20 years ago, you had a car and cable television and wah-ha, you know, voila, you're middle class. Now it's like you need the iPad, the iPhone, the AirPods, the Apple Watch, the this, the that, you know, to even

be considered middle class, so to speak. So I think that people's lifestyles are kind of being inflated, whether it's conscious or not, just by, you know, marketing and social media and things like that. So I think that the people that are savers right now definitely are losers because there's a lot more money to be made, you know, in the market and things like that. But I always preach that you should always have a three to six month emergency fund. So once you check that box, that's when you should start really placing your money elsewhere other than a checking account, savings account, money market account, if that makes sense. Absolutely. Yeah, I know. And I've seen you say that in lots of videos, which I really appreciate

because I feel like people never talk about that probably because it's boring, but it's like, no, no, no. Before you do anything sexy and exciting with investing, oh my gosh, please have an emergency fund because that is the number one reason why people get into debt because something happens. Something always happens because it's called life. Things happen. They don't have the cash. What do they do? They borrow from their line of credit, credit cards, get a loan. And now they're in the situation where they're in debt and can't get out. We don't want that to happen. 100% agreed. And just very quickly, just to back up, the reason I made my decision to quit my stable job at a publicly traded bank was because my wife and I literally have zero debt, like literally $0.00 in debt. If I had a fat mortgage and three car payments and four kids and all that stuff, I definitely wouldn't have quit that job. I would have treated YouTube as a side hustle. However, you know, my wife works full time. We had the health insurance. We had no debt. She was on board. I was on board and we just said, let's do it. So I think having that emergency fund

and just knocking out all your stupid debt or your consumer debt first, that opens up a lot of options to you. And it allows you to pursue a passion project stress-free as opposed to just trying to, oh no, how am I going to pay the bills this month? And that's when the quality of your to you and it allows you to pursue a passion project stress-free as opposed to just trying to, oh no, how am I going to pay the bills this month? And that's when the quality of your content starts to get hurt just because you're trying to make the dollar over providing the value. Absolutely. I know you have a lot of popular videos, but one that I think may be your most popular one, which I find very fascinating, is about how car dealerships can rip you off. Last time I checked, I was like over 6 million views. So people want to know,

can you let us know, the Kohl's knows, how are car dealerships ripping us off? I mean, I feel like we all know that they are, but maybe not how. Yeah. So to be full disclosure, I sold cars for a year after I graduated with a finance degree. So I graduated in December of 2010, finance degree, bilingual, internships, had jobs, did all the things that you're supposed to do, right? You know, and then you ride off into the sunset and start your career. Yeah, right. So in 2010, that was at the tail end of the 2008 financial crisis, where unemployment,

at least the United States, was close to 10%. And especially in finance, no one was hiring. So I sold cars for a year. So I do have, again, I'm being a practitioner, not just someone that's finding information online and regurgitating it. So I had firsthand look into how car dealerships potentially do rip people off. So I will say that that was in 2012 that I worked. So 2011 to 2012 is when I sold cars. It did well. It was a good living, but at the end of the day, not a very fulfilling job. So to answer your question, we implemented at my dealership something we call a four square. So if you picture a square with four squares within it, so four quadrants, if you will, you had basically four areas of any car deal. So you have the price

of the car, you have your trade in, you have your down payment, and then you have the terms, the financial terms of the deal. And basically what I teach in that video is that as long as you eliminate as many of those four squares from the equation as possible, that'll just give you the advantage as the car buyer. So basically, instead of negotiating, OK, I'm going to get the financing from the car dealership when I really don't know what interest rate they have me at or I don't know what they're going to give me for my trade or I don't know how much money I'm going to put down or I don't know what the price of the car is going to be. Try and eliminate as many of those four factors as you can. So what I try and teach is, and I didn't say this in the video, but I do this personally. Well, personally, I don't even buy cars from dealerships. I buy them from private parties just because my dad and I are car people. We know what to look for and how to buy them. But ultimately, what I try and teach people is

sell your car privately. You're eliminating that quadrant. Get your own financing. Secure your own financing in place. Eliminate that quadrant. Know how much money you're going to put down or just buy the car in cash. And that way, you're just negotiating on one piece of the quadrant, which is the price of the car, period. So it eliminates a lot of the different ways that they can perform the shell game of, oh,

we'll give you more for your trade, but we can't budge on the price of the car. You know, that kind of a thing. Ooh, that is very helpful information. Thank you. I feel like I've never heard of that before. I mean, I've never actually bought a car. Can you believe that? I mean, I don't, my husband has one, but I'm not, I hate cars. Then you, then you, then you can't relate because some people are like, I mean that in a good way. I'm saying it in a good way because a lot of people, they have these nightmare stories of, I was at the dealership for six hours, eight hours, 10 hours.

I'm like, what? I would have walked out after five minutes. Dude, are you kidding me? Yeah. No, it's probably a good thing. But yeah, I feel like people need to know the inside scoop. And especially since you have that personal experience, I feel like that makes it so much more.

That's probably why the video did so well because no one else is talking about that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's a topic that a lot of people feel strongly about and it covers a lot of the things that people feel is happening to them, but they just can't put their finger on it because they just simply may not know. And to be completely fair to that, that paints all dealerships in a bad light. And it's not my proudest video. That certainly doesn't apply in 2020 to a lot of dealerships. A lot of people have, you know, with the internet being the regulator, you know, the kind of the neutral regulator of transparency, if you will. I think a lot of people are starting to get better deals. However, you also have to realize that there's still ways that dealerships make money. So that's why I personally prefer buying cars from private parties. So for anyone listening

to the podcast, if you're mechanically inclined or you have a mechanic friend or you just know what to look for, I recommend buying cars from private parties, specifically one owner, well-maintained cars that have maintenance history and records. And once you go look over it in person and see that it's a legitimate car, you see that the person lives in a decent neighborhood and they're not trying to get over on you. Those are the best deals that you can strike because they're just simply trying to get more money for their car than they would at a dealership. And you're trying to get a better deal than you would get at a dealership. And it's kind of a win-win situation. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Before I let you go, because I know

you also probably have a lot of younger people who watch your channel too that are just starting to learn about personal finance and investing. And I know you have a lot of videos about how to get started with investing, which is also a very common question that I get. And sometimes it's not necessarily, here's what you do, one, two, and three. But typically, you probably get a lot of people asking you questions about this. What are some of the things that you'd like to kind of share or tell them? Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of my audience is probably similar to yours. People that are, like I said, just getting their first big boy, big girl job, making money. They went through that phase in their early 20s where

they bought all the toys and then they realized, what the hell am I doing? I need to start making my money work for me as opposed to just spending it. So I think that a lot of my audience is in their mid to late 20s, early 30s, right around there. And they know that they need to start getting financially savvy, if you will. So a lot of these people, my demographics, I just know that these are people with W-2, you know, full-time jobs where they work for companies that offer a 401k or a Roth IRA if you're in the United States. There's similar equivalents in Canada to your audience. But ultimately, I think that people should look into index fund investing, even though it may be a little bit overvalued right now.

They should look at what their employer offers them, the Roth IRA, or excuse me, the 401k or the traditional IRA. Because when you start investing and not even seeing it in your paycheck, if it gets taken out before you can even spend it, I think that paying yourself first and paying your retirement first before getting your paycheck is the easiest way for the lay person or the average middle class person to start investing. That way, they don't have a temptation to spend it and they're simultaneously contributing to their future, their retirement. Yes. And I feel like that's the same advice I'd give too. It's like if there is some sort of, in Canada, like an RSP matching program or some sort of pension that you can contribute and it's taken off your paycheck so you don't

actually see it. I mean, that's what I did in my 20s. It was the best advice I ever got from people that knew what they were doing. So if that's an option, please do that. And also, I'm a big fan of indexing. So also agree with that. Agree. Agree. Yeah. So there's obviously so much more that we could talk about because you have so many great videos. Where can people find more information about you and check out your amazing YouTube channel? Yeah.

Thank you very much. I appreciate you having me on. So you can find me online, obviously on YouTube. My channel's name is Marco Whiteboard Finance, or you can find me just by typing in Whiteboard Finance on Instagram. I am at whiteboard finance and on Twitter. I just started re-emerging on Twitter again after many years of lurking. And it's so funny reading your old tweets from like 2017. It's like, I'm going to get the big wheel turning on YouTube. Can't

wait for this journey. And it's like two years later, you know, it's your full-time gig. It's, it's, it's really crazy. It's like out of a movie. So my Twitter is at whiteboardfin, F-I-N. Amazing. I'll follow it if I don't already follow it. But yeah, Twitter. Good. You know what? It's so funny because I love Twitter. I feel like it's one of my favorite platforms, but I feel like recently I've been doing some public speaking with some younger folks and Gen Zs, and apparently they're like, what's Twitter? I'm like, oh, okay. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I think Twitter is our demographic now more just because it was relatively new when we were their age.

So we kind of just live with it. I feel like the grandma on Facebook, you know what I mean? When all the grandkids are off Facebook and we're just like, we're still on it. I know, whatever. I still love Twitter. I think it's a great, great platform. So make sure everyone follows you on the Twitter.

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me. It was a pleasure. Yeah, my pleasure, Jessica. Thank you so much for having me. And that was episode 226 with Marco Zlatic. Make sure to check out his amazing YouTube. Hit that, or what did he say?

Smash that subscribe button or that like button. I don't know. I'm not cool on the YouTube yet. I'm still learning the lingo. Please bear with me, guys. But go find him on YouTube. You can find him at youtube.com slash whiteboardfinance. Also, make sure to follow his Instagram at whiteboardfinance and follow him on Twitter as well. He's got some great stuff going on. And of course, check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 226 to find out more information about what we talked about. I'll include some of his, some of my personal favorites of his videos on there as well. And of course, there's some going to be some important links in the show notes because I've

got several, several giveaways going on right now, which I'm going to share more info about in just a few short seconds. I just have a very important message I want to share about this episode's sponsor. So hold your horses. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by EQ Bank. Do you send money abroad often? I know it can be expensive, which is why EQ Bank has partnered with TransferWise to make sending money overseas even cheaper. This integration allows EQ Bank customers to send money right from their EQ Bank Savings Plus account at the real exchange rate, paying only a small, transparent TransferWise charge. To give you some perspective, guess how

much you would be charged to send $500 Canadian to the US using one of the big five banks? Between $14 and $36. Guess how much it would cost you with EQ Bank? Only $6.95. Not only that, you can earn 2.45% on the money sitting in your account before you send it out. What's not to love about that? To learn more and to play around with their international money transfer calculator, visit ecubank.ca. Once again, that's ecubank.ca. Interest is calculated daily on the total closing balance and paid monthly. Rates are per annum and subject to change without notice. Okay, so as I mentioned, the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 226. I've got three giveaways going on right now. I am doing one that's going to last the entire season of this podcast, giving away books that have been featured on the show. And so as I have

more guests that have books on, I will add them to the contest. If you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest or just check out the show notes, you can find information about all the books I am currently giving away. I am also giving a scholarship away for, do you remember just a few episodes ago, I interviewed Kara Perez and she has an amazing online course all about debt management, debt repayment. And I'm like, you know what would be nice with me is if I paid for a scholarship for one of you amazing, lovely listeners. And so that is what I'm doing. You can find more information in the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 226

to find out how you can enter to win a scholarship to her course. And since I also have my own course about investing, Investing Foundations for Canadians, everybody, if you don't know, I am also going to be giving away a scholarship to that course. And that course is worth $399 Canadian,

y'all. It's, uh, you know, it's worth it. It's a meaty course, but man, you will learn a ton of stuff. So again, uh, go to the show notes for this episode to find out how to enter to win. You can also find out all these things. If you're just like, you know, an email subscriber, if you're on my email, you would have gotten the email that gave you all the links in one pretty place. JessicaMorhouse.com slash subscribe is where you can sign up to my email list because I've got a lot of cool, exciting things going on. Speaking of things going on, I am, wait, actually, where am I right now? Today is Wednesday. Oh yeah. I am on a flight back from Vancouver. So yes, over like the past couple of days, I flew from Toronto to Vancouver for, um, a work thing. And now I'm flying back to Toronto

and, uh, it's been a crazy time. There's a lot of travel in my future, a lot of work travel, which is very exciting. Um, but yeah, I'm going to be in Edmonton, uh, in March. I will let you know more about that. Cause I think it'd be actually really cool to do just a little kind of informal meetup, just grab a drink the night I am there. I'm also going to be back in Vancouver. I didn't tell you I was in Vancouver for a reason because I was only going to be there for a few nights. But I'm going to be back in Vancouver for a longer period of time in May.

So I definitely want to do a little meetup then. And then I'm going to be in New York City also in May. Wait. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So yeah, it's going to be a busy, busy few months. It's already been a busy several months. Oh my gosh. Not complaining. Not complaining at all. It's been lovely. It's just, it's a lot. And I'm just trying to figure out how I need to better manage my time a little bit, but everything's good. Everything's just fine. Everything's fine, guys. Everything is fine. That is something that me and my husband tell each other almost on the daily. Hashtag self-employed life. Am I right? Anyways, that's what's been going on. And also why I haven't

put out any YouTube videos on my own channel. I mean, Marco just keeps on putting them out and I just don't have the time. There's so much going on. But anyways, enough about me. I want to sincerely say thank you for taking the time to listen, to subscribe, to send me your amazing emails and DMs, messages, and iTunes reviews. I really, really appreciate it. I read them all. I see them all. I really appreciate just the love. It really is lovely. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'll be back here next, yeah, this Friday, sorry, this week on Friday with another Money Minute episode. I've been getting a lot of good feedback from that, so I'm very excited. And yeah, besides that, I'll be back here next Wednesday with another interview

and it's going to be fantabulous. So thanks again for listening. I will see you back here Friday. Have a good rest of your week. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.