More Money Podcast - 228 How to Feel Good About Money - Kelley Keehn, Personal Finance Expert & Author of Talk Money to Me

Episode Date: February 26, 2020

It's been well over 2 years since I've had well-known personal finance expert Kelley Keehn on the podcast (she was featured on episode 131 back in Nov. 2017 if you want to check that out), and she's back to chat with me about her new best-selling book Talk Money to Me. If you are looking for a new book, specifically for Canadians, about all the things you should know about money management, debt, credit and mindset, you'll definitely want to grab a copy of her book. It's not written like your typical personal finance advice book, telling you what to do and not to do. Instead, Kelley weaves in his wisdom by sharing stories and scenarios based on all of the people she's been able to talk to and help over the years in her career as a financial literacy advocate. The reason she wanted to write this book is because she wanted to write a book to open up the conversation and to just make people not only feel good about their money, but about money in general. Our pasts really do have a big impact on how we think, feel and manage our money as adults. Luckily, you can change all of that, as long as you own up to that past and become intentional with how you view and interact with money moving forward (and of course taking some of Kelley advice in her book!). For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/228 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Mo Money Podcast. This is your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 228. And I've got a great episode for you. I've got a repeat guest. She was on my show back in 2017, and now she's back because she has a new book out called Talk Money to Me. I have the wonderful Kelly Keene on the show today, and I'm very excited because she's got a great book. If you're looking for a new, fresh personal finance book to kind of get you into high gear, this is it. This is the one. Read it, loved it. That's why she's on the show, so we can talk more about it and kind of pick her brain on some financial wisdom that she has. I, of course, am going to be giving away a copy of her book. So

listen to the all the way to the end of this episode to learn how you can enter to win a copy of her book. Now, yeah, I've got some other things to share, but I'm going to wait until the end of this episode to share those with you. So without further ado, let's get to that interview. But first, just a few words I want to share about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by EQ Bank. I've been a customer of EQ Bank for over three years, and it's no surprise why I've been such a loyal customer. Their EQ Bank Savings Plus account offers the flexibility of a checking account with free transactions, no everyday banking fees, no minimum balances, and fast, cheap international money transfers, while still offering one of the highest interest rates in Canada for savings accounts at

2.45%. In other words, there are no fees, you can move your money around between accounts and other banks freely. And did I mention you'll earn 2.45% on all of your deposits? Because of that, EQ Bank is where I choose to house my emergency fund and money I save up throughout the year for my taxes. And to be totally transparent, since I started banking with them in 2017, I've earned a total of $1,121.82 in interest, just by letting my money sit in there until I needed it. So the question remains, how much are you earning on your savings? If it's less than 2.45%, why not see if EQ Bank is right for you? To learn more and to open an account,

visit EQBank.ca. Once again, that's EQBank.ca. Interest is calculated daily on the total closing balance and paid monthly. Rates are per annum and subject to change without notice. Welcome back to the show, Kelly. I can't believe it's been over two years. You were on my show November 2017. Isn't that crazy? Oh my gosh. And I've been watching your success, Jessica. I love your guests. I love what you're doing. So great to be back. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. And I'm excited that you're back because last time I had you on the show, you already had several books under your belt, but now you have a new book, Talk Money, to me. And I'm excited to talk about it because I

had a chance to read it. Really, really loved it. And I'm excited to have you on the show to talk all about it. Thank you. Yeah, it was a labor of love. It's been a lot of years in the making. So we're so thrilled that it's out in the world and really appreciate that you took time to read it too. Absolutely. So I know you've written, is it 10 books? Is that right? Yeah. I've written 10, nine got published. One sad little one. So I think I finally got it right with this one though. It took me a few to get it right. Yeah. Yeah. So what, because you have so many books and you've been doing this for so long, what makes this book different than some of the other books that you've been doing this for so long, what makes this book different than some

of the other books that you've written in the past? Yeah. Well, and you know, finance is such a broad subject. So trying to, you know, bring it to different audiences in different ways. Some of my books were geared specifically towards women, more on the psychology of money. Some were kind of very matter of fact, this is the difference between an RSP and a TFSA. And this book we think is very special because, you know, as you know, there's eight archetypes, you know, individuals and couples, and it's really about their struggles and their money missteps. And along with some of mine, I share lots of my money missteps as well. And then, you know, how to correct them in the happy ending and what's we, you know, and I say we, because this

was really a very close collaboration with my publisher and my editor, is we really wanted to bring this information in a very digestible way. So, you know, it's not just that textbook, like, what's the difference between this or that? It's like, this is real people, how they're struggling to incorporate these lessons or decisions or what have you when it comes to finance, what worked, what didn't work. And I think it just is a lot easier to learn that way than just a very matter of fact, dry kind of, you know, textbook-y way that I've sometimes written in the past. Yeah, no, absolutely. I found that's why it was so easy to just read in just a couple of sittings because there's a lot of storytelling. And I think that's important because I think people don't really absorb

just straight-up facts. You need context. And I think it was really helpful for you to have all those different kind of real-life-sounding scenarios. I'm curious because they seemed pretty real. sounding scenarios. I'm curious, because they seemed like pretty real. Like, I feel like I've met these people, or, you know, they seem like people that you've encountered in your life, or any of the kind of stories or scenarios that you shared in the story to kind of get your messaging across based on kind of real people you knew or real life stories that

you knew about? Yeah, so they're all compilations, but yeah, they're all real. Like every detail is either several people, a compilation of people over the decades. Nothing is made up. Oh, that's good. Oh yeah. I wasn't sure. I was literally like, hmm, she very well could have just like made up like, cause they seemed real, but you never know if they're actually based on reality or not. And little snippets might be for, you know, one character might actually be 100. Just because there's so many people I've talked to in the 12 years I was in the financial industry or the 15 years I've been on the education side, as you can appreciate, we hear a lot of stories. So yeah, we didn't want anything in the book to be something that wasn't real. There's more than enough out there that we're all like health. Nobody fixes their health and they're just done.

Nobody fixes their finances and they're just done. It's an evolving process. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I appreciate too, because you also mentioned you share a lot of your own kind of personal stories as well, which I really liked. I'm not sure if like, maybe it's just been a couple of years, but I'm not sure if I even really knew your story of why you were so kind of motivated, inspired to get into the career path that you have and that money played a very big part in your upbringing. Do you want to kind of share a little bit about that? Yeah, I definitely had a mixed relationship with money. I think that's why my mission is for Canadians to feel good about money right now. And I'm very specific in

my mission that there isn't a your, that it's not feel good about your money, because I'm not presupposing that people have money. And then, you know, the why behind my why is if you can envision Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? There's that pyramid, Maslow was an American psychologist that basically said, you know, we self actualize, we get we get more interesting and have more fun. I mean, these are my own words. As you move up the pyramid, right? When people are at the bottom of the pyramid, just paying their bills, trying to survive, life is really tough. And when I was growing up, I was raised by an incredibly amazing single mom, raising myself and my two brothers,

and we were right at the bottom. We were at the bottom. She was, you know, waitressing to support us. Times were really, really tough. She always made us feel great and abundant. But times were really tough. And then what happened was, you know, all of a sudden when, and then, oh, let me just back up. So times were really tough for us, but I had a number of very wealthy uncles. And what was really interesting was I got to see, you know, the differences between people that had money and didn't have money. You know, my uncles were very confident.

They negotiated, they talked a different game. They talked about stocks and bonds and things that my other aunts and uncles that didn't have money didn't talk about. And it was very interesting. So that certainly messed me up about money, you know, coming home and having money stresses and then hearing differences from the uncles. And then something very magical happened when I turned 14 and one of my uncles bought my mom a home free and clear. Now, she had done a lot of work for him to justify that. But nonetheless, it just catapulted us up Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And so that really

is my mission for Canadians. Why is it important for them to feel good about money? Because even before you have money, if you don't feel good about paying attention to your debt, negotiating, having, you know, flexing those muscles of, you know, financial self-esteem, you're not going to get the money and you're not going to get out of that situation. So, and I think that people are not their best selves when they're at the bottom of the pyramid. You're not the best spouse you could be or parent or employee or employer. So, you know, shows like yours, what you're doing, Jessica, is so important. And all of that, I think, helps Canadians move up that pyramid because we all win

when we're feeling more prosperous. And showing your story or sharing your story, I think some people, when they are at the bottom, it feels impossible to get out. And I talk to people all the time, and I'm sure you do too, where it just seems like you're at the bottom, you're like, how on earth am I going to climb that mountain? But hearing more and more stories, and then also getting the tools that you share in your book that show you this is how you do it, I think is very impactful. Yeah, absolutely. Because it does, you know, I would like people to not link their self-worth with their net worth. But the reality is that we do, that when we're having very difficult times,

it's very hard to feel confident about life and stand up straight and go into a bank and negotiate your interest rate when you're not even sure they're going to approve what you're asking for to begin with. It's really, really tough. So yeah, there's some inspiration in the book and the tools, but also just to know that you're a whole valuable human being regardless of where your financial situation is. And I think, and you also shared this really, it was a very interesting story about how you, one of the first cars you bought was kind of a luxury car and just kind of you're younger and you didn't really know what you got yourself into. And then later on, when you had more financial literacy, you decided not to do the same, even though you could have afforded to do that.

I think that's a story that I've heard a million times. I know so many people that I personally know, they own luxury cars. And I'm like, I think I have an idea of what your income is. And I don't understand why you're making that choice. But I think, especially with cars, but also other things like homes and stuff like that, people, similar to linking net worth to your self-worth, people want to link the things that they own to how successful or how well off or organized they are, which I think is a big problem because that's not necessarily the case. If someone lives or chooses to rent and like a bachelor, you don't know how much they have in the bank. But again, this is like a huge society kind of issue that I think we're dealing with. Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, I should have known better

because I worked for a bank at the time. And what's really interesting is when you get to work for a bank, you get to peek behind the curtains. You get to actually see someone's net worth statement, especially if they've like a mortgage or a loan or something with the bank. And you get to see like, it was a very interesting education for me early on in my career, because I would have someone come into my office that let's say was renewing $10 million of GICs. And they didn't look like they had $1 to their name, but they grew up in the depression. And, and they had nobody to impress, and they couldn't have cared less. And then you would see what was kind of the local celebrity of the city and you'd look at theirs and you're like, really? You're like swimming in debt? Exactly like you're saying, right? You've got the great house, the car, the wardrobe, but you don't have anything else. And it's really difficult because for all of millennia, with the exception of the last few decades, if you were poor, you looked poor. There's no way to get around it. And if you were wealthy, everyone in town knew you were wealthy.

But today, with the advent of pretty inexpensive lines of credit or easily available credit cards, although they're not low, it's easy to look like a million bucks and be swimming in debt. So it's very difficult. Now, my lesson came from changing my peer group and expanding my peer group. And that's super, super important because it's really difficult. I think I tell the story in the book when I did opt for the non-luxury car because the car I bought had every bell and whistle and everything I wanted in was one third the price, I think, from the luxury vehicle. It just didn't have the symbol on it. I got backlash from my network. I got backlash from my friends. They were secretly asking my husband, is Kelly doing okay? Is business

all right? Why is she not buying a luxury vehicle? And it was like, because I didn't want to number one and number two, I've introduced some people into my life that are doctors without borders and was like, you don't have to give all that money away. But do you have any idea what even a fraction of that car could do? You know, and the kind of work that we do. And so it's just kind of like sobering, like, Oh, I don't need it. I don't even want it. So why would I buy it if it's just to keep up with appearances? But there's a lot to unpack there and a lot of conversations you have to have with yourself. And quite frankly, we're all busy and we often run on automatic. So unless we interrupt ourselves once in a while, we probably

don't go there. Absolutely. It's funny too, because when I was reading that passage, it was only like, I think a few weeks before that, my husband was telling me that a friend of his who also works in the same, he works in the music industry, um, said, you know, you should maybe get a better car. He has like just the same Hyundai hatchback we've owned for like almost 10 years, but it runs, we've never had an issue. It was at the time, the only thing we could afford, but now we're in a different place. Yeah. We could probably afford a better car, but we're like, why? It's perfectly fine and it's like a mode of transportation. Who cares?

And it's funny because his friend had the idea that like maybe if you get a nicer car, you'll attract like higher net worth clients. And it's like, but that doesn't actually make like more financial sense because A, there's no guarantee that his car will automatically get him better you know clients but it was just interesting that that yeah person had a perspective on like a car means uh your level of success and so that i read your you know chapter i'm like oh that's funny and i mean make no mistake about it sometimes that is true but if that is the case and you really want to impress then go rent that vehicle for a couple of days and go impress that big client. We forget about something like opportunity costs, right? If you have this over here, what do you not have the opportunity to have? And a car is an incredible expense that

does not go up in value. It just costs you money. And we forget to go, okay, so now you're going to be saddled with maybe a five or eight or $1,200 lease payment. What are you not going to be able to do? What traveling are you not going to be able to do or expand your business? And is it worth it just for that one moment where you could have gone and rented? And I do talk about that.

I don't think I talk about it in the book, but I often talk about, you know, touching experiences that you really want, like going on a super great vacation and really splurging or, you know, renting a sports car for the weekend and, and feeling that feeling because what what research has also shown is that within a couple of months, especially six months, we don't even care about that new vehicle anymore. We don't care about that new suit, that pen, whatever it was. It's like, it brings us no joy. So if your vehicle's not going to bring you joy within just a few months, go rent something fun. Go, you know, like why, why would you spend your money on something like that? Yeah, no, exactly. And I

think that's, that's another thing I've been seeing, especially with younger people is, A, we're definitely prioritizing spending our money on experiences, which I think is great. You'll always spend your money wisely, I feel like, if you do that route, because those experiences can kind of last so long. And yeah, like you said, we buy things. And then yeah, just a couple months later, we've already forgotten. I have definitely spent some money last year on updating my wardrobe. And then I'll be in my closet. I'm like, I forgot I bought that. So I'm like, is that worth it? No, of course not. So we definitely, I feel like that's definitely been definitely a point of conversation. I've been seeing a lot more in

the personal finance community about being more mindful with your spending and aligning your spending. Not so much like I think in the past, it was like, don't spend your money on this and spend your money on this. Like kind of that, you of that no and yes, kind of black and white thing. It's more about what are your personal values and does your spending align with that? And I think that's almost a better way to kind of think of it because it gets rid of kind of the judgment and kind of makes things a little bit more clear on like, what should you do? Yeah, exactly.

And that's definitely something I go into a lot and talk money to me is taking away that judgment, that shame. It's about just making sure that you're loving what you're doing, that you're not, you know, buying these things for someone else for their approval. And I love that we're seeing trends now of so many things being rented, that you can rent an evening gown, that you can rent a luxury purse, that you can rent all of these things because it's so true that, yeah, you go into your closet, you're like, I don't even know I had that. Or you wear this suit that, you know, when you first put it on, you felt like a million bucks. And by the 10th time, you're like, eh, whatever, you know.

We tend to just, we're just creatures of a lack of appreciation. It just is the way that we are. So I love seeing these trends of being able to rent more and more things that we know we're not going to love after just a few uses. Absolutely. Absolutely. Another thing that I feel like I've been hearing some people share, and you shared it more in depth in the book, is this thing called an anti-budget. And I would love to get your perspective on what exactly does that mean? Because I hear from a lot of people when they're just getting into personal finance and budgeting and they're just not interested. It's a bad word to some people. And so I guess you're kind of flipping it on its head. Do you want to kind of explain what an anti-budget means and how that works? Sure. And it is a bit cheeky. Now,

for people that budgets work, I think that's fantastic. I would never steer them away from that. I've just not been that person where I can track for a long time or stick with a budget. Same with diets. I just, you know, my health is super important, but I find diets don't work for me because they're constrictive. You go on it, then you fall off of it, then you feel guilty and bad, and then you're kind of worse off often. Anyway, so what's

a more fun way? I only write about stuff that actually works for me that I can actually do. And so what I make my husband and I do at least once a year, usually twice, is we just track our financial calories, if you will, right? Like what is it that we're spending our money on? No judgment at all. Now you can do this a couple of ways. You can do it old school, just get yourself a little book from the dollar store and actually record everything. That's a really great way for your brain to understand tangibly where your money's going, for you to get a visceral understanding of it. There's no research on tracking your financial calories, but there is a lot of research on people that want to maintain a healthy lifestyle and track their actual calories that by writing it down, they actually do achieve and maintain

long-term success. So one can maybe assume that that could also be possible with your financial calories. An easier way to do it, because most of us aren't going to do it with a pen and paper, is just use one debit and one credit card for the month. And then your bank is going to do all that tracking for you. You're going to look at the end of the month and look for categories of where your money's going. But Jessica, I want my readers to do a little bit more work than that. And so when you do this once a year or twice a year is really dig in, dig into your home and auto policy, dig into what you're paying with your, you know, your, your cell phone provider and all of that. Get on the phone, see if you can get a better rate.

So part of it is just being in touch for a moment with your financial life, tracking where is your money going, then sitting down as a family at the end of 30 days and going, okay, this is where other than necessities, our money is going. Maybe it's entertaining, concerts, travel, whatever, and then times it by 12. So you get that, oh, okay, yeah, that's not a big deal just on a daily basis if it's bottled water, subscriptions, or coffee, and no judgment here, it's whatever you love. But when you times it by 12, maybe that is your RRSP contribution that you thought you had no money for, or the ability to pay down on your debt, or just a vacation. Like, it's just about do you know where your money's going? I had one reader who was spending, he found $3,600 a year on diet soda,

like that is bananas, bad for his pocketbook, bad for his health. And then he bought a $200 soda stream and he's still using it today. So it's just simple things where it's like that, that took a little effort and actually was a positive improvement in his life. So it's not about sacrifice. It's about choice and awareness, but you can't make those choices if you're not aware once in a while. So, um, you know, for those that really hate budgets, if you just do this once or twice a year, I think it can really help your finances. Oh, 100%. That's exactly what I do. And I tell people to do. It's like, if you want to know where your money is, you're going to go have to... You have to find it.

You have to... I think a lot of people are always, and I always hear this, are looking for some sort of easy way out. Like, is there just some app that'll do it for me? I'm like, there's apps out there for sure. They, in my opinion, do not work because they're very passive. You have to be an active participant and actually take the time to really see what's going on and then reflect and see, is this something that makes us feel good? I would not feel good. I mean, I feel like, was that a passage in your book about the SodaStream? I feel like I heard that story. Maybe it was in your book because I remember reading it. I'm like, I do spend quite a bit of money on Perrier. And I'm like, maybe I should get a SodaStream. But if you enjoy it, that's

the thing, right? It's all about, like you said, the mindfulness. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think that's a, an important thing that so many people need to do. And like you said, it can be like, I do it monthly, but you could do it, you know, every six months or once a year and just dedicate the time to do it. And then you'll be able to find out why you can't afford something. Or I think kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier, you're always giving up something when you're spending your money in a certain way. So you need to figure out, we can't afford this vacation. Why? It's because we're apparently spending all this money on takeout. We didn't even realize. And so you have to figure out how can we change our habits so we can make that goal a reality. Yeah.

And I mean, some people that I've helped with the anti-budget or readers that have written back that have been in a lot of debt, of course, it's hard. You don't want to look at your spending. You don't want to dig into it. You're feeling bad enough already. Maybe there isn't enough money at the end of the month, but what they've reported back and also the tools that some of the characters we reveal and where their mistakes are is when you see how much money you're paying, let's say, for example, if you're in credit card debt and you see, wow, 300 bucks

a month or whatever it is going towards credit card debt. And you're like, that's bananas. If that actually, you know, if you got on the calculator, saw that maybe just five or $10 more a day, you've got that paid off in a year or two. I'm just, I don't know, depends on your situation. And then that's going towards an RRSP and you're getting tax refund. Now all of a sudden that becomes very exciting. But if you don't look at it and acknowledge the elephant in the room, it's not going to go away on its own. One thing I hear too, and I feel like this kind of goes along with the idea of budgeting or have some sort of system to keep yourself accountable and know where your money is going, is I hear a lot of people always ask, what are other people doing? Or how much should I be

saving? How much should I be spending? People really like to have some hard numbers to know whether they're on track or not. What would you say to those people? Yeah. And we really want these rules of thumb, right? These sound bites. He's like, I mean, I don't know about you, but I would never go, what is someone else eating today? How much are they consuming for calories? And I should do it as well. And by the way, what medication are they taking and vitamins? We would never do that when it comes to our health, but when it comes to our finances, we want these these shortcuts and they don't exist and i talk a lot in the book about reaching out to someone like a certified financial planner or a non-profit credit counselor because these people are actually going to help you create a plan

if you need help a cfp is going to help you with blind spots that you might not realize. Maybe you're leaving tax benefits on the table. Maybe you're a caregiver for your parent. You're leaving hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a year of tax credits or trying to help your kids pay for your kids' education. You don't realize that there's government grants and subsidies. Or if you're just drowning in debt and you don't know how to get out, a nonprofit credit counselor is going to help you come up with a plan. They're going to check your credit report for free. Their first appointment is free. So there are these people out there. It's knowing who to trust and how to research them and when to reach out. Because I don't know

how you do it all on your own throughout your whole financial life. We would never do it when it comes to our health. We've got personal trainers and nutritionists and doctors and nurses, acupuncturists. We've got this whole host of people that we go to when we need help with our health, but we just go, not sure what to do when it comes with our finances. Yeah, no, for sure. It's funny. I just did a speaking engagement the other day and I did like five 20-minute sessions throughout the whole day. So I talked to a lot of different people. It was interesting people coming up after asking me a few questions and they're all on different kind of spectrums. Some people really had their stuff

together, but they also had this anxiety that they weren't doing it perfectly. I come across those people a lot like the perfectionists. And then there's the people that have no clue what they're doing and don't know where to start. And one consistent thing I find across the board when people do want to have help is they don't know who to trust. Because I feel like a lot of people have maybe gotten the wrong advice or worked the wrong person or just got burned in the past. So I know you probably talk a lot about this and again, have worked with a lot of people. What do you say to people that are like, they're kind of maybe a bit hesitant to work with someone because they're afraid, you know, who to trust basically. And that, that is a reality. And again,

I'll bring it back to our health. Like I'm sure almost all of us have had a doctor that wasn't great, didn't have the best bedside manner or a nurse or maybe got a wrong diagnosis, we wouldn't just abandon getting help. So I definitely acknowledge that there have been a lot of people that have got just wrong information or have been disrespected when they tried to go out and get financial help or felt embarrassed or dumb. That's not okay and it's not acceptable. And remember, that's the importance of shopping around. So what you want to do is first, you have to do your research. You don't want to just ask your neighbor or friend who they're using. It might not be right for you. So what you want to know is, is the person you're seeing legitimate for your situation?

A great website, and I am the consumer advocate for FP Canada. They're the nonprofit organization that sets the standards for certified financial planners in Canada. They have a great website called, it's a long one, financialplanningforcanadians.ca. But it's a great website because there's a number of articles and videos there on how to shop for a financial professional. What are the questions you should be asking? Because how would the average person know, right? Are you regulated with this and who oversees that? It's kind of hard to know that. So go to that website. There's some great resources there to shop for a professional or interview the person you've got already. Nothing saying you can't reshop around. So what you're

looking for, number one, are they legit? That's super important. Are they, you know, they have somebody overseeing their work, all that type of stuff. But number two, are they legit? That's super important. Are they, you know, they have somebody overseeing their work, all that type of stuff. But number two, are they right for you? Just because they're legit, just because they tick a lot of boxes, that's great. But there's nothing saying you can't shop around for someone that works for you, for your situation that you feel comfortable with. And I would just say for any of your listeners that kind of have been burned or apprehensive, please reach back out, shop around. It's your money. And if you're leaving money on the table because you don't have that professional advice, that that's just a shame. Yeah, no, exactly. It's, and I like how

you do keep on comparing it to fitness. Cause I'm like, that's exactly my experience too. It's like, there's so many, uh, you know, uh, things that, uh, they are so similar. And similarly, if you work with a bad personal trainer, you're not ever going to choose it. Well, that's just not for me entirely, or I'm never going back to the gym. It's like, well, no, it just means they weren't right for you. And I feel like sometimes we take more time shopping around for, oh, I don't know, like hairstylists or realtors, right. Then financial planners.

And it's like, what, what, why are we doing this? Um, now before I let you go, I know, again, you talk to. And it's like, what? What? Why are we doing this? Now, before I let you go, I know, again, you talk to so many people and you have just a whole, you have so much knowledge, especially since you've written so many books and been doing this for so long. What are some of the most kind of common questions or even scenarios that you hear that you want kind of listeners to maybe hear the answers to? Certainly some of the big ones, especially this time of year is like, should you go into a TFSA or an RSP? And quite frankly, a lot of people really don't understand what those are to begin with. And there's a lot of embarrassment and shame

around that. So I really encourage you to spend some time. I know you've covered it with lots of your guests, like really try to understand and keep asking questions because that that can be, you know, a big that could be a great thing for your finances or a bad thing. Like, let's say you go into an RRSP and you don't even have an emergency fund and then you've got to pull out of it next year. You're going to get taxed so heavily. It's, you know, it's not worth it. That too, Chris, that apprehension where people then sometimes just are apathetic where they go, well, I'm not going to do anything because I don't understand it. Some other burning questions are, should you pay down your debt or should you invest? Like, when is that right to do? Obviously, how do you afford to get into a home in markets like Toronto and Vancouver and really, quite frankly, across Canada. All of these are difficult questions that,

you know, again, isn't just like a here's a soundbite, here's an app that's going to help you figure it out. And they deserve your time. And once you dig in, I promise it's a lot easier than you think. It's like, I liken it to this, Jessica, you know, if you were new to this country, or you were just going to, you just came here and you wanted to learn more about hockey or you were just starting to play golf, you know, it would behoove you to know a little bit about those games, that there's three periods in a hockey game and a hat trick is a good thing. There's 18 rounds in a game of golf and a bogey is a bad thing. Like you would want to know some of the verbiage and rules or what have you, because it's going to make it so much more fun

than just like, whatever. But yet, when it comes to our finance, we're just hoping that there's going to be these magic answers that are just one size fits all. So it's worth it to dig in to find the answers that are right for you and your unique situation. Absolutely. And you do give a lot of good answers in your book, I will say. So I highly recommend people pick up a copy. Where can people pick up a copy of Talk Money to me and learn more about you as well? Yeah, thank you. Kellykeen.com is my website, but right now it's in stores across Canada and Costco and Chapters Indigo. It's also online and on sale at Chapters Indigo and Amazon. And you know, if someone's listening and they just really

can't afford it, it's in libraries across Canada Canada as well so you can pick up a copy for free uh if you can't afford it um but it's it's all over the place right now and I know you recently it was uh became a Canadian bestseller it did thank you yes um the Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star so we're pretty excited about that yeah thanks congratulations thank you thank you you welcome. So thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me again. I look forward to just sending people to read your latest book. It's great. Thank you. It's always a delight. And thank you for what you're doing to help move people up the pyramid and empower them financially. You're doing an amazing job, Jessica. And that was episode 228 with Kelly Keene. Make sure to grab a copy of her

new bestselling book, Talk Money to Me. You can find out more information about her at kellykeene.com. Also make sure to follow her at kellykeene on Twitter and at kellykeenebiz on Instagram. And might as well just follow me on Instagram too. If you're on the platform and you're not following me already, you can find me at Jessica I. Morehouse. And let's be friends. Let's be Insta friends. Why not? No? Yeah? Okay. Anyways. So like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I'm going to be giving away a copy of Kelly's book. I also have a couple other exciting giveaways that you may or may not know about, which I'm going to share with you in just a few short seconds. I just have some messages I want to share about this episode's wonderful sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by EQ Bank. Do you send money abroad often? I know it can be expensive,

which is why EQ Bank is partnered with TransferWise to make sending money overseas even cheaper. This integration allows EQ Bank customers to send money right from their EQ Bank Savings Plus account at the real exchange rate, paying only a small transparent TransferWise charge. To give you some perspective, guess how much you would be charged to send $500 Canadian to the US using one of the big five banks? Between $14 and $36. Guess how much it would cost you with EQ Bank? Only $6.95. Not only that, you can earn 2.45% on the money sitting in your account before you send it out.

What's not to love about that? To learn more and to play around with their international money transfer calculator, visit eqbank.ca. Once again, that's eqbank.ca. Interest is calculated daily on the total closing balance and paid monthly. Rates are per annum and subject to change without notice. Okay, let's get to that good stuff. The giveaways. I've got three big giveaways going on right now. The first one is I'm giving away a free scholarship to Cara Perez. She was on the show recently. Make sure to check out that episode. She has an online course called

Talk Money to Me Debt Payoff Course. That's kind of funny. Not related at all to Kelly Keene, but anyways. It's her debt payoff course. If you have debt and you want to learn how to get rid of it, this is probably the course for you. All you have to do is check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 228, or you can go directly to the contest enter form at jessicamorehouse.com slash Cara Perez contest, Cara Perez contest, jessicamorehouse.com slash Cara Perez contest. Honestly, just go to the show notes. It's so much easier. Anyways, I'm also giving away, of course, copies of all the books featured on this season of the show, including Kelly's. So if you want to enter all of those book giveaways, you can do so at Jessica morehouse.com slash contests. Super easy. And last but not least, I'm not even sure if I've shared this on the podcast yet. Oh yeah,

maybe I did. Maybe I did. I can't remember anymore. Um, anyways, I am giving away a free scholarship to my investing foundations for Canadians course. It is worth $399. So, you know, that's a good chunk of change you can save by winning this scholarship. Again, go to show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 228, or just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash investing foundations contest. Again, show notes, probably the easiest way to do that. So those are the contests. Very exciting. I also want to reveal something kind of crazy. I'm like, I talked to my husband, I'm like, should I do this or should I not do this? He's like, do whatever you want. So super helpful. No, I'm just kidding. Anyways, so I will be actually making a very exciting trip

to Edmonton, Alberta. Edmonton, Edmonton. I haven't been to Edmonton since I believe I was a child. Um, I think we went there just because we're on our way to like drum Heller to go see like the dinosaur stuff when I was a kid. Remember that anyone been anyways, I'm going to Edmonton on a work trip. Uh, but that means I'm going, I'm going to be there for one evening. And I think it'd be actually really cool if anyone's, the area, we can grab a drink and hang out, have a little mini meetup. If you're interested, you let me know. DM me on Instagram or send me an email, jessica at jessicamorehouse.com. I should probably tell you when I'm there. March 17th is the... Wait. Yeah, that's it. That's right. Just checking my calendar right now. That's why I'm talking like this. I am going to be there the evening of March 17th. So hit me up. Let me know if you're free to grab a little quick drink and we can hang out and talk money. I think that'd be cool. Because I don't get to, I've never been to Edmonton and I don't know when I will be back. So let's take advantage of this situation and have a good old time together.

So yeah, hopefully I can hear from you some of you Edmontonians and we can hang out. I think that, oh yeah. Okay. Last thing and then I'll let you go. This week is a very cool week because I have, obviously you just listened to this episode. I've got another episode for you tomorrow and another Money Minute episode on Friday. So this is three episodes in one week. Man, that's a lot of Jessica, a lot of Jessica. So I'm going to see you back here tomorrow with a special episode. And then also hopefully on Friday, if you're not sticking me by then, for another Money Minute episode. So thank you so much for listening to me. And I'm going to see you again and again and again and again.

So anyways, thanks again. Have a good rest of your day. See you soon. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.