More Money Podcast - 230 How Financial Therapy Can Help You Tackle Your Money - Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, Financial Therapist & Author of The Financial Anxiety Solution

Episode Date: March 4, 2020

You’re gonna love this episode. You’re gonna feel so good after listening to it! Why? Because there’s just something about my guest, Lindsay Bryan-Podvin of , that puts you at ease. Which is probably why she’s a financial therapist. She makes you open up, get deep, and eventually get to the crux of what’s going on with your money so you can start building a solid, happy and successful financial life. In this episode, we discuss what exactly a financial therapist does (and how it differs from some other financial designations), why talking about money is one of the most important things we can all do to improve our financial situations, and how impactful our past is on our financial futures. Besides working with individuals and couples as a financial therapist, Lindsay is also the author of The Financial Anxiety Solution. If you want to grab a copy of her book, make sure to visit  to also get a free video training on values-based spending and saving. For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/230 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Mo Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 230. And for this episode, I've got the wonderful Lindsay Bryan Podvin. She is a financial therapist, speaker, and author. She's someone I've been following on Instagram for a little while. And she has a brand that I think is really great called Mind Money Balance, which is funny because I feel like we're definitely in tune with my little tagline I've had for a few years called Money Life Balance. That's why I probably like her. I like her vibe. I like what she's doing. And probably because she's as passionate about helping people with their money as I am. So what

she does as a financial therapist is she has a kind of specific segment right now, high earning couples. And what she does is she tries to deepen their relationships using money psychology. And it's her mission to open up a dialogue with clients to help them talk about their money beyond the dollars and cents. And by talking about the emotional side of money, which is what we're going to be talking about in this episode. So I know you're going to love this episode. She also has a book, which I'm of course going to give away at the end of this episode. So make sure to listen to the full episode or, or if you want to skip to the end, whatever, but you know, listen to the episode guys. I'm going to give away her book. It's called the financial anxiety

solution. And of course you can find more information about Lindsay at mindmoneybalance.com. But you're going to love this episode because I really listened to it after I edited it. And I remember the feeling I had when I talked to her, if that makes any sense. And I just felt like totally at peace and at calm. She's clearly very good at what she does because I mentioned it at the end of the episode. I'm like, I don't know why, but I feel really good and calm right now. So she knows what she's doing. So you're probably going to feel the same way after listening to this episode as I did, hopefully. Anyways, before I get to that interview with Lindsay, I just have a few words to share about this episode's wonderful sponsor. So stay tuned. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is

supported by EQ Bank. I've been a customer of EQ Bank for over three years, and it's no surprise why I've been such a loyal customer. Their over three years, and it's no surprise why I've been such a loyal customer. Their EQ Bank Savings Plus account offers the flexibility of a checking account with free transactions, no everyday banking fees, no minimum balances, and fast, cheap international money transfers, while still offering one of the highest interest rates in Canada for savings accounts at 2.45%. In other words, there are no fees, you can move your money around between accounts and other banks freely. And did I mention you'll earn 2.45% on all of your deposits? Because of that, EQ Bank is where I choose to house my emergency fund and money I save up throughout

the year for my taxes. And to be totally transparent, since I started banking with them in 2017, I've earned a total of $1,121.82 in interest just by letting my money sit in there until I needed it. So the question remains, how much are you earning on your savings? If it's less than 2.45%, why not see if EQ Bank is right for you? To learn more and to open an account, visit eqbank.ca. Once again, that's eqbank.ca. Interest is calculated daily on the total closing balance and paid monthly. Rates are per annum and subject to change without notice. Well, thank you, Lindsay, for being on the show with me. I'm so excited to chat about this specific topic with you. Well, thank you for having me, Jessica. I'm happy to be here. Yeah. So, okay. Let's start off with, I really, so I can't remember how I found you. I mean,

you did apply to be on my show, but I was already following you on Instagram. So I'm like, oh, okay. I've already been following you for a little while. And what I found interesting was you call yourself a financial therapist. Can you kind of explain exactly what that means? Because I talk to people all day long and there's so many new designations and so many new roles and titles, people get very confused. And yeah, I have no idea who to trust or what certain people do and certain people don't do. So can you kind of explain why did you want to become a financial therapist and what exactly a financial therapist does? Well, I hope I can help to provide a little bit of clarity, but I hear you. There are so many things kind of out there in the world in terms of who says what they are and what they do. So I am

a financial therapist. For me, my path to getting there was that I was a traditionally trained clinical social worker, which means I was a traditionally trained clinical social worker, which means I was a therapist providing mental health care. And in my own life, I had an interest in personal finances. And as a therapist, money stuff came up because money stuff is a big part of most people's emotional and mental health. And as therapists, we really aren't trained to talk about it in a way, in my opinion, that is very meaningful for the clients. As a social worker, I was trained to advocate for my clients so I could help them, you know, talk to somebody about getting them set up on a reduced payment plan or trying to figure out ways to kind of make ends meet for the month. But nothing really sustainable and nothing deeper

than quick fixes. And I felt like that was an area that needed improvement. And I thought there had to be a way for me to combine the mental health piece with the financial wellness piece. And through the magic of Google, I found financial social work and the Financial Therapy Association. So I got my certificate in financial social work. So for that, you have to be a social worker and it's, I believe, 30 or 40 credit hours and you sit for a test. And similar with the Financial Therapy Association, they have now trademarked that credential. And that is you have to have a bachelor's degree in something finance related or in something mental health related. And that is you have to have a bachelor's degree in something finance related or in something mental health related. And then they kind of cross train you in the other

discipline. And you have to gather 500 client hours, sit for a test and have a supervisor sign off on your work. So I'm finalizing getting my hours in on that one, but that'll be very soon. So that is how I came to be. And what a financial therapist does is make sure that clients understand the emotional and psychological side of money so that they can interact with it in a way that feels good and safe and empowered. So I bet you get this question all the time, but how, so I have a better kind of idea of what a financial therapist is. And then it sounds like there's actually kind of a, a lot of education and experience requirements, which is nice because I see people over the internet all of a sudden calling themselves a money coach. How would you, if someone were to ask like, what's the difference between you

and a money coach, what would you say to them? It's hard to know because to your point, coaches aren't, um, you can get a credential as a coach, but they're not regulated in the United States. So I think there are amazing financial coaches out there, but there are also money mindset coaches and wealth coaches. There is a breadth of different ways that you can work with somebody. So making sure you know kind of what their area and expertise is. In terms of in general, what is a financial coach? I find that they tend to be the folks who are helping you set and achieve financial goals. They might do some money mindset stuff, but there's a slight difference there. Whereas my work,

the way that I see it, is more 80 or 90% is emotional and psychological, and about 10 or 20% is the money stuff. Whereas I think it's almost reversed for a lot of financial coaches, which can be fantastic. And I know and adore a lot of personal finance coaches, but there's a slight differentiation there. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I know in your business specifically, which also got me very interested in what you do, is you mainly help couples. Why did you want to kind of hone in on that kind of segment of people instead of, you know, just individuals or just, you know, opening it up to everyone? Why did you really want to focus on

helping couples? Well, I tried opening it up to everyone. You know, I think anytime you try something new, you have an idea of what's going to happen. And life just kind of shaped this niche for me. So I got my certification in financial social work in May of 2018 and started seeing financial therapy clients shortly thereafter. And what I found, for whatever reason in my practice, I had a lot of individuals coming in who were partnered or married. And what was happening was they were coming in just for their help. So they would say things like, well, this is just my spending problem. Or I'm the only one who has anxiety over saving money or something to that

effect. And really quickly, it became apparent that there's no way we can do good, meaningful work if you're in a serious relationship and the other person isn't here. So after some time, I kind of narrowed in on that and I was like, all right, if you're in a partnership or marriage, I have to see you both here because that is the way that money

is going to show up in your relationship. It's not going to be siloed. You guys are gonna have hands in each other's goals as you should, and you should be communicating about this stuff. And it's a huge healthy pillar of marriage or a healthy relationship. And so why wouldn't we be talking about it as a couple? So that is how I kind of pivoted to couples and high earning couples just happens to be the area that I live. I'm in

Ann Arbor, Michigan, which for those of you guys who don't know, it is, depending on the year, one of the most quote-unquote highly educated zip codes, meaning we've got a high percentage of people with master's degrees, PhDs, and MDs. So we've got a lot of very smart folks. And then what I found really fascinating is they were smart folks. They were also high earners, and they still had a ton of money, shame, money, guilt, money, uncertainty, financial anxiety, fill it in. And I was like, wow, there's this huge gap again, because I think in the personal finance space, there's kind of two ends of the spectrum. There's kind of the getting out of debt, that kind of starting point, there are a lot of resources available.

And then on the other end of the spectrum, you have folks who go to wealth advisors. But there, again, is this missing piece. And I think I just kept finding these missing pieces and going, well, we have to do something about it. Yeah. What have you found, I guess, because you work with that specific segment of high income earners, have you worked with people that are maybe low or middle income? And do you see any differences between how they feel about money or talk about money or manage money? Yeah. Ooh, this is a tricky question. Here's the thing. If you don't have money, it's really fricking stressful to not have money. So if you are on the lower income earning area, if you are touching poverty or if you're lower working class, that is incredibly stressful because we need money, as you know, just to

survive in this world. And when we are kind of at that lower end of things, we're kind of just trying to make ends meet. And we're kind of in this fight, flight, freeze state at all times, just trying to survive, trying to survive. So there's a different mentality in that space because of where they are of just getting through survival. So thinking about things like retirement and savings account and funding your children's education isn't really on the radar because you don't honestly have the capacity to be thinking in that way because you're just thinking about surviving. Then kind of moving up a little bit

more, then I start to see more of this overwhelm of what do I do? Okay, so now I'm out of survival mode. Now I have a little bit more disposable income, but now I'm kind of overwhelmed with what's a good first step. Should I save for an emergency fund? Should I start investing in retirement? Should I buy a place? Should I sell a place? All of this different stuff. And then kind of moving up again in that income level. What I see a lot of is particularly in North America, we are sold this idea that if you have money, your life will be better or more money means you will be happier. So then there's this disconnect of, wow, we're making six plus figures. And wow, we're still humans.

We still have feelings and thoughts and emotions. And surprise, surprise, we are still struggling emotionally in some way. So then there's the guilt over that. How is it possible that I make money or earn money and don't feel great? Or how is it possible that now that I have this money, I have anxiety about spending it or I don't want my friends and family to know how much I have? So it kind of goes all over the place. And obviously, those three different tiers that I kind of spoke about are gross generalizations, but it kind of helps to get a sense of what people are undergoing at each of those different income

levels. Yeah. And I'm sure too, when you are dealing with a couple, there's also different income levels within that couple. Usually there's probably, I mean, it's probably rare when people make the exact same amount of money. How do you, do you, do you find that? Do you find typically there's one that out earns the other partner significantly and that's a big cause of maybe issues? Yeah. I think what is really interesting is that we like to think we're in a very out-earns the other partner significantly. And that's a big cause of maybe issues. Yeah. I think what is really interesting is that we like to think we're in a very progressive society and that as you speak to millennials, I'm a millennial myself, thinking about we have different ideals than our parents and grandparents. And we all see ourselves as being equals. And at the same time, when you have people who are earning

different levels of income, there tends to be this power dynamic that happens, even if you don't mean for it to happen. So let's say one person is significantly out earning the other. There can be this power dynamic that starts to creep in of the person earning more money, suddenly having more say in the relationship about what happens. And it goes both ways. It could be the person earning more kind of subconsciously thinking things like, well, I was the one who earned this money. I should be able to dictate where it goes. And it also comes from the person who isn't earning that much money. And they might be saying things like, well, I didn't earn that money. I don't feel like I have a say. So it cuts both ways. So what I try and help my clients understand is that in a partnership, the whole idea is that you guys are together as a unit and on the same team. So we have to stop thinking about

it as yours and mine and think about it as ours. Think about it as yours, as a plural, as a unit and working together on your financial goals and your life goals. So that way it doesn't become that weird power dynamic of somebody else has more control because it doesn't feel good to be on either side of that dynamic. Now, how would you, I guess, because it kind of sounds like what you're saying is, which I totally agree. I feel like no matter who makes more, you need to come at it as you are a partnership in finance and in life. How do you deal with it then when people are like, well, how should we kind of create a kind of cashflow system or a banking setup? Should we combine everything? Should we put things separately? And how does that kind of work with also having this mindset

of, but we're in this together? Because a lot of people too, like, I mean, myself included, me and my husband have a system where we have some joint accounts, but we also have predominantly separate accounts. How do you kind of, you know, organize some of those questions or help people kind of figure out what's a good system for us while still having this mentality of we are in this together? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think I kind of blow some people's minds when I tell them I'm a feminist, but I believe in joint accounts. And for the majority of the relationships that I work with, I recommend having joint accounts. And even if it's not exclusively a joint account, at least having a theirs, mine, and ours account,

and that ours account being the most important to the partnership. So you both know kind of what's going in that account, what's coming out of that account. You guys are collaborating together on goals. That is really hugely important. And I think it's really tricky to try and navigate it as a new couple. But I find that starting out that way is easier than trying to kind of go in retroactively. So what I tend to recommend is a joint account, or at least a there's mine in ours, where the bulk of the spending and saving is happening in that ours account. And at the same time, to your point about wanting a little

bit of separation, wanting a little bit of autonomy, nobody wants to have to text their partner, can I get a latte today? You know, that doesn't feel good either. You don't have to be kind of constantly seeking permission because then again, you get back into that power dynamic. So for my partner and I, what we do at the beginning of the month is I go to the ATM and I take out cash and we split it and he can spend it however he wants and I can spend mine however I want. And that's what works for us. For other couples, they have a similar system, but they have it on their debit card or credit card or whatever, but they have a certain amount of discretionary spending. And I think that's important no matter what you do, even if you do have fully joined accounts, to have a little bit of autonomy and a little bit of freedom because we're still adults and we still want to both agree. So before we spend $300, we have to

check in and make sure it's an okay purchase. So everybody has to kind of figure out what works. That's what tends to work for me. So I always offer that as an example, knowing that no two couples are going to be the exact same and people are going to have to find out what works best for them. So I guess I kind of just like picturing you in like, you know, your office and the couple in front of you and chatting, how would you kind of start that conversation? Because I'm sure people were like, oh, how do we set up, you know, a good banking system? But really, you're probably like, there's a lot of other things we need to talk about first. What are some kind of key things

that you would want to talk with to these couples or get out of them to kind of figure out what would be a good path for you. Like, how are you different? Like, it's great to have kind of a template or some examples, but I guess you have to first kind of really hone in on what do you want and how do you think about money, feel about money, want to manage it? Because I feel like most people will have, you know, I've experienced it where people have been in a couple for a very long time, but they've never actually really talked about how they manage money or think about money with their partner for the first time. They've never talked about it and they've been married for a while.

Yeah. Thank you for asking that question because I usually don't get to the money stuff for several sessions, even though clients come in thinking that's what we're going to do. I tell them before we even talk about the bookkeeping side of money, that's like way down the road of our work. First and foremost, we have to dig into your financial histories. How did you each learn about money? What are your beliefs about money? What were your first jobs like? What do you guys believe in when it comes to savings goals and spending goals? How did your parents interact with money? What are your feelings about debt? I mean, we have a ton of ground to cover before we even get into sharing

an account. So for my couples, I really love to go back in time and I get a lot of hesitation here and a lot of frustration, which I understand because people want solutions now. And they think that talking about things that happened in their childhood aren't going to be helpful now. But they are. And so what I try to do is help them kind of just understand some of the basics of the human brain. So from ages 0 to 7, 0 to 10, we are absorbing so much information.

And we are learning so much about money, even if we don't think we are. So I always go back and say, tell me a little bit about what your parents did for work. What kind of language did you hear used when your parents were paying bills or when you guys were going on vacation? And that helps us to understand what were some of the beliefs and the values about money in each partner's household. So one partner might have grown up in a household where money was rude to talk about. It was impolite. You never asked anybody that was like hush, hush, quiet. And then you might have had somebody who grew up in a household where they did talk a little bit more openly about money. And even when I say that,

it's like most households are not that open about money. So it might be things like, you know, talking about getting a new job or talking about purchasing a new car. Or if you want to go buy those roller skates, you're going to have to set up a lemonade stand. You know what I mean? But having just some more dialogue about money might have been the way another person grew up. So we want to talk about those things.

What was your norm? What have you absorbed? And how might that be shaping the way that you interact with money now? Yes, I know. Because honestly, I feel like you kind of said exactly what I've experienced and also personally too. Your past really does almost dictate the way that you interact with money for the rest of your life. And it's some of those habits you need to change, but man, does it take a long time. And part of the process of changing those habits is really like acknowledging your history with money, which isn't easy to do. Yeah, exactly. That's why people get irritated. They're like, that sounds like work. And I'm like, yeah, I know. It's really funny when people are like,

can we just do the budget? I'd really rather do the budget than talk about my child. That just goes to show how hard it is to dig into our financial past. Absolutely. But it does come into play when you are at that stage, working with a budget or talking to your partner about spending or net worth. And just a personal example, recently recently me and my husband were having a conversation and he was just kind of being a bit resistant. I'm like, why don't you want to talk about this? And then we realized, you know, kind of eventually after a long conversation, we realized he's like, you know, in general, talking about money makes me just really anxious. And this has to do with like his history with finance and just how he grew up. And

I'm like, well, that makes sense. So then you can kind of connect the dots. Like, why do you behave this way whenever we sit down to talk about money? This is why. Right. Exactly. It doesn't make a ton of rational sense in our adult brains, but there's certainly something going on in him that whenever money gets brought up, and I imagine it gets brought up pretty frequently since you're the millennial money expert, he's getting anxious about it, right? And that's one of the most common emotional responses to money is anxiety. I want to kind of, and I'm sure also you probably experienced this too. Typically, this is when I encounter couples too experienced this too. Typically, and this is, you know, when I encounter couples too, one participant is more involved than the other,

or I hear sometimes people want to, you know, work with me or, or, you know, get some, uh, you know, advice or something like that, but they're like, but you know, I'm in a partnership, but they don't want to be involved. How do you handle something like that? Cause typically you do need two parties involved, but usually there's one that's kind of steering the ship and then one that's just like, yeah, I'm here, but I'm not really here. Yes. There is almost always that dynamic. And I almost always say, I don't care. Which is so not a therapist response, but it's because I've seen it play out so many times. That would be like saying to your couples therapist, you know what? Only one of us really likes communicating. So just one of us is going to be the communicator in the

relationship. The other one's just going to take a back seat. Like, no, that's not going to fly. So I say, okay, that's fine that you don't have a huge interest in money. We're probably going to do some work around why that is, around what comes up. Maybe they're anxious. Maybe they're embarrassed. They don't know as much as their partner. Maybe they feel bad because they earn less than their partner. We have no idea. So first we have to figure out why that person feels left out because that's usually what I hear. It's not, it's like, oh, I feel like my partner knows more than me. So it's just better if they do it. Well, then what's underneath that?

That sounds like a lot of embarrassment and shame that you feel like you don't know as much as your partner. We have to dig into that. So when it comes to making sure both people are talking about their money, I say, look, if one of you loves managing the day-to-day stuff, that's perfectly fine. And you guys are going to do monthly money dates or weekly money dates. So that way, at least both people know what's going on with the money. The person who's not as interested doesn't have to do the ins and outs

of things, but they absolutely have to be on board. And I say that also as like thinking about planning from a worst case scenario perspective. You know, I'm sure you've seen where people in partnerships, one person takes on the money stuff and their partner has zero access to that information. So from anything like, oh, a car accident happened and I need to be able to log into our insurance account to something really tragic. We need to make sure both people have access to that information. It is crucial in a relationship that both people at least have the know of what's going on in their financial relationship.

Absolutely. I feel like one of the first personal finance books I read, and this was probably over 10 years ago, so I feel like it was a dated book back then, but it was just talking about how as women, we need to be more involved in our finances. Cause I guess typically like, yeah. We live longer, seven or eight years. Yeah. Yeah. And historically it was maybe the men who earned the money and managed the money and would give us maybe a credit card, but we'd have no idea. And then when they die, we'd have no concept of like, where are our bank accounts and how much do I have? Again, this was a very dated book, but it was just important to, for me, it was very impactful thinking like, oh yes, of course,

this of course makes sense. Two people need to be involved. Even if one, like you said, is kind of more of the money manager actually doing the transactions and stuff like that, both parties need, and why wouldn't you want to be to be? Even if you don't care about money, you're still earning it and contributing to the family finances. Wouldn't you want to know exactly where it's going? Yeah, absolutely. And to your point about that being old advice, that's the kind of stuff that lingers or I'm sorry, like an old book. We see that all the time where people still don't have access to their retirement account or their bank information or their partners. They don't know what's going on in their partner's credit. Like this is a big deal and it is crucial. You know, if you're planning on getting married or

if you are married, these are kind of basic life documents that you need in place, which include being able to know where your money is and how to access it. And just speaking about marriage, I remember one of the things that me and my husband did was we did some counseling before we got married. And part of it, surprisingly, was actually about money. So it's like everyone needs to know what's going on with their other partner. How much debt do they have? How much money do they have? What's going on with their finances? Because a lot of people will get to that stage in the relationship and they're like, oh, we've never actually really talked about money, even if we live together. And so it's just so important to be involved and know what's going on

not as soon as possible in the relationship. But I'd say the sooner you add that into the conversation of a relationship while you're dating, it doesn't seem like such a big thing to deal with when you're like, oh, we've been together for five years. We've never talked about money. Now it seems like an epic thing we have to do. Right. And it's also something we interact with every freaking day, right? You know, when you're going out with your partner, when you're first meeting, you're

probably going on dates and spending some money. So we're interacting with money all the time. I don't know why we wouldn't talk about it in partnerships. But to your point, I've met plenty of people who don't talk about money five plus years into a relationship. And how does that go on for them? Exactly. Exactly. That's why they come see me, which is great. I'm so thankful that I can do this work. And a lot of this is preventable, which is why I got on my soapbox is money and arguments about money are the number two cause of divorce in the United States. And I think it's so preventable if we only spoke about it.

Yeah. So yeah, I want to talk a little bit more about that because I feel like that stuff has been around for so long that a big, you know, key thing linked to arguments or divorce or separation is because of money. Have you like kind of encountered some of that and what are some kind of specific things besides just talking about money to kind of prevent that? Or if you're like, you know, things aren't so good in our relationship and it has to do with money, what are some things that they can kind of fix in that so they can kind of salvage the relationship? That was a big question. That is a big question.

I think the big problem is that everybody thinks money is this big, scary ogre and they're terrified to talk about it. And it's like, it doesn't have to be that big of a deal. Once we talk about it, it has way less power over us. It's like, it doesn't have to be that big of a deal. Once we talk about it, it has way less power over us. It's like almost anything. It's that conversation you're dreading about having at work. They feel so much bigger in your head than it really is. And so what happens is it creates this weird self-fulfilling prophecy. If I have these couples who don't talk about money because they think it's going to be bad or scary or end in an argument, they avoid talking about it like the plague. And then something happens where they have to talk about money, like their partner gets a new job or they

need to relocate or their car breaks down. And then emotions are heated when they start talking about money and things don't go so well. And they go, hmm, see, this is why we can't talk about money. It's scary and bad. And we get into fights over it. So we just won't talk about it versus just saying like, look, it's not that big of a deal. Money can be fun. And I think if we can help couples see, oh, money actually helps us to achieve our goals. Money makes it so we can do fun things like take vacations and buy the cars that we want and donate to charities that are important to us and take our nieces and nephews to a fun brunch. You know, we have to remember that money affords us a lot of amazing things in our lives.

And if we can take that big, scary monster out of it and start saying, well, what can it afford me? What can it afford us? That's going to help couples be way more excited. I don't know about you, but I'm not jumping up and down to go fight with my partner, but I would be jumping up and down to go, Ooh, where are we going to go next summer? Absolutely. Yeah. I always find when people are, you know, I want to, you know, work with my partner and better manager money, but I don't know where to start. I'm like, the best place to start is to talk about what can money as a tool provide you and, you know, talking about like, let's start some, uh, setting some financial goals. That's an exciting thing, like you mentioned. And then you can kind

of work backwards and be like, okay, how do we do that? Right, right. Exactly. Um, so I know you have a book, it's called The Financial Anxiety Solution. Do you want to kind of talk a little bit about what that book is about? That sounds interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It is all about that emotion that so many of us have around money, anxiety, and how it manifests not only in our thoughts, but in the way that we feel. And when I say feel, I'm talking about emotions, but I'm also talking about physically, right? I know plenty of people who come to me and they're like, I literally clam up when I go to log into my bank account, or I want to throw up when I have to plan a trip with my friends and we have to Venmo money back and forth, right?

Money causes a ton of anxiety. And to me, this is where therapists can really excel in this work because we're already trained on how to help people cope with anxiety. All we have to do is apply those same skills to financials and we're in really good shape. So in my book, The Financial Anxiety Solution, what I do is walk people through the thoughts, the feelings, and the actions or the behavior change that they need to take in order to feel not stressed and peaceful when it comes to engaging with their money. And it reflects my philosophy. There's not very much in that book about the actual bookkeeping. So if you're looking for that, there are plenty of other good books out there, but mine is not it. It's really for you. If you are just feeling stuck

or feeling anxious or feeling like you know you should be doing something, but you can't, then maybe it's some anxiety here and we can help you undo it. And the book is all set up very much in an interactive way. There's tons of worksheets, there's lots of journal prompts, but it's meant to help you really quite literally work through your financial anxiety because I do believe that money can be fun and it should be. And that's how we're going to feel really good about it. We're not going to feel good about it if we're anxious and scared of it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. I feel better about my money already just talking to you. I don't know why. I just feel like therapy through

osmosis or something. Yeah, something. I don't know. I just feel a bit better. So thanks for taking the time to chat with me. Where can people find more information about you and grab a copy of your book? Yeah, they can find me at Mind Money Balance on Instagram, as you did. And my website is of the same name, Mind Money Balance. And if they go to mindmoneybalance.com slash podcast, for people who have heard me on podcasts, there's a special little bonus when you buy my book and send me proof of purchase. I'll send you a free bonus video training on values-based spending and saving. And that link also includes where you can buy my book. Awesome. Very cool. Thanks so much. Yes, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. That was episode 230 of the Momany Podcast. Make sure to go to Lindsay's website, mindmoneybalance.com.

Also check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 230 for more information about everything that we talked about. Some links that you may want to click on, such as, you know, she has a YouTube channel, FYI, all of her social handles will be there. Of course, you can just find her on Twitter and Instagram as where I follow her a lot at Mind Money Balance. And of course, you can grab a copy of her book called The Financial Anxiety Solution anywhere on her website. She mentioned at the end of this episode, go to mindmoneybalance.com slash podcast. And there's a special way that you can get the book by listening to the podcast and also get a little freebie. So definitely do that,

mindmoneybalance.com slash podcast. And of course, I'm giving away a free copy of her book called The Financial Anxiety Solution. And you can find more information, well, by listening to the end of this episode or just going to the show notes, jessamorehouse.com slash 230. So I will share how you can enter to win a copy of her book. Also some other amazing contests I have running right now and a bunch of other incredibly special things. I'll just have a few words about this episode's sponsor. So stay with me. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by EQ Bank. Do you send money abroad often? I know it can be expensive, which is why EQ Bank has partnered with TransferWise to make sending money overseas even cheaper. This integration allows EQ Bank customers to

send money right from their EQ Bank Savings Plus account at the real exchange rate, paying only a small, transparent TransferWise charge. To give you some perspective, guess how much you would be charged to send $500 Canadian to the U.S. using one of the big five banks? Between $14 and $36. Guess how much it would cost you with EQ Bank? Only $6.95. Not only that, you can earn 2.45% on the money sitting in your account before you send it out. What's not to love about that? To learn more and to play around with their international money transfer calculator, visit EQBank.ca. Once again, that's eqbank.ca. Interest is calculated daily on the total closing balance and paid monthly. Rates are per annum and subject to change without notice. Okay, so I'm giving away copies of all the

books featured on this season. That's right. If you've been listening to this current season, season 10, FYI, if you care, no one does, but I do. That's how I keep track of all these things. Season 10, um, just go to Jessica warehouse.com slash contest, and it'll show you all of the books I'm giving away that have been featured on this current season of the show. Um, also check out the show notes specifically, uh, Jessica warehouse.com slash two 30, because there will be links for other giveaways that I'm doing. So currently I'm giving away a free scholarship to one of Cara Perez's. She was a recent guest on the show.

She has a course all about debt management. I'm giving away a scholarship to that course. And I'm also giving away a scholarship to my investing foundations for Canadians course, which is worth about 400 bucks. So if you want to be in the running, go to check out the show notes for those, uh, the links where you can enter to win. Um, and that is that about contests. I'm sure I will be doing more contests in the future. I've got a lot

of things in the works right now and, uh, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. I am feeling good about how things are going. Um, not sure about you, but for me, I always have a tough time in the winter time. I'm sure I have mentioned this in the every winter since I've started this podcast. I get the seasonal, you know, little sads kind of thing. I think it's because I don't leave my house because it's cold. And also there is always dark. So I am so excited that we're now in March, which means we are coming to spring and the sunshine will be here. And typically in the spring, there's a lot of exciting, cool things happening. One thing that's happening very soon is I will be in Edmonton, Alberta. Woohoo! I haven't been there since I was literally a child. And I will be there the evening of March 17th. So if anyone wants to hang out with me, if you're in the Edmonton area or Edmonton and you want to hang

out for a drink, let me know and we can hang out. Just shoot me an email, jessica at jessicamorehouse.com. Or if you're on Insta, just message me on Instagram or tweet me or however you like to communicate. Communicate with me and let me know. Yeah, I'm down. And I'll put you on a list and I'll organize everything and then I'll give you the deets on where, when, and all that good stuff. I think it'd be just a lot of fun if anyone wants to meet up with me because I'm one night in Edmonton. Let's do this, guys. Speaking of meetups, of course, I definitely plan on doing some more actual big meetup events. Nothing confirmed yet, but I tend to always do some in the spring. So I hope I can do some more this spring. Definitely

in the works. So yeah. Another thing that I have in the works and you can find more information on my website is my Fix Your Finances Masterclass. I wrapped it up. It's all done with my students. It was a live masterclass. I'm going to be kind of repackaging it into an on-demand course because I got a lot of feedback being like, it wouldn't be great if I could do it at my own pace or, you know, I can't make your live masterclass because I have a job at night or whatever. So I'm going to be doing that, launching that very soon. And how you can find out more information about all the things that I've got going on is, well, if you're not on my email list, what are you doing? Why are you not on there? Get on my email list list jessicamorehouse.com subscribe also uh you'll

get like a welcome email from me and it'll include um well it'll include some exciting little things i'm not going to share once you sign up you'll find out what i mean um but also uh it'll give you more information that if you want to get a bunch of like all the freebies that i have floating around the internet i have them all stashed away in this private resource library that you just have to make an account for get on my email list course, and then you get access to all of those freebies. I also have plans, like I'm working right now on basically redoing, kind of updating, upgrading my budget spreadsheet. So I'm very excited to be launching that very soon. A lot of things in the works, guys. A lot of things in the works.

But anyways, another thing I have in the works is, of course, I have another Money Minute episode this coming Friday. So I've been getting a lot of feedback that you like them. So happy. I've been getting a lot of messages of things that you want to see in the future. So I'm working on those too. If you have a specific question you want answered or you just have a question for me, you're like, what should I do? I can make a money minute episode on that topic. So let me know, hit me up over the messages and let me know what you want to hear from me. Um, I think that'd be really fun. Um, but anyways, that is it for me for this episode. I'll be back here Friday with another money minute episode. Thanks so much for listening. If you haven't already, and you're listening on, you know,

iTunes or Apple podcasts, make sure to subscribe. I think you can do that on Spotify too. Yeah, I think you can. I have a Spotify account. I just never tried to subscribe. So probably. But also if you're on Instagram or Twitter and you're liking what you're listening to, do a little screenshot and take me. I'll share it and say thank you because I do really appreciate hearing from my listeners and all that kind of stuff. It makes me happy. So, yeah. Anyways, thanks a lot. I will see you here on Friday.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.