More Money Podcast - 236 How to Become More Financially Self-Reliant - Chris Guillebeau, New York Times Bestselling Author & Host of the Side Hustle School podcast

Episode Date: April 8, 2020

I can’t believe it’s been over 2 years since I’ve had Chris Guillebeau on the show to promote his book Side Hustle, and of course to share his expertise about side hustles. Well, he’s back with a brand-new book, and this time his first work of fiction, called The Money Tree. This book is actually pretty timely, since it focuses on characters dealing with some tough times financially, so you’ll definitely be able to relate to the story. But since it’s still a book about money, it also offers some solutions and helpful advice on how to overcome these obstacles, how to think differently about your money and earning potential, and how to not let the outside world determine the course of your future. I personally found his book super inspiring, so I hope you enjoy this podcast episode and of course pick up a copy of Chris’ new book! For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/236 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to the Momenty Podcast. This is episode 236 and I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. First off, for anyone who is subscribed to this show on iTunes or Apple Podcasts, which is honestly a huge percentage of you, first want to share that I was not late in putting out episodes. There was a weird technical issue with Apple or my host or somebody. No one wants to take accountability. Everyone says nothing was wrong, and they were very unhelpful. I was the person to figure out what the issue was and fix it. So that's why it seemed like I didn't put out any episodes last week and decided to publish them over the weekend. No, no, no. I did publish them. They just didn't appear and it's all fixed. So I apologize for

that weird delay that has literally not happened in probably two years. So I released three episodes last week because there's just so much going on. I wanted to share a bunch of different types of episodes. So make sure to catch up on those this week. I also have three episodes. I have one today with Chris Gilbo. He's back on the show. He has a new book out. I am going to be having one tomorrow with Erin Lowry. She's going to share some of the important things you need to know if you're American and want to know what are some of the financial relief benefits available to you and some other important things we need to know to help ourselves in this crazy financial time, but specifically for my American listeners. And then I will be doing my own money minute on Friday to share some of the relief packages that are happening right now in Canada. Also,

if you want to learn more about CERB, which I'm not sure if anyone else is calling it CERB, but C-E-R-B, the Canada Emergency Response Benefit. I've made a video on YouTube. You can now apply to this program, but I made a video specifically to show you what exactly it is, how you can find out if you're eligible and how you can apply. So make sure to check me out on YouTube, jessicamorehouse.com slash YouTube is where you can find that, or just Google my name, Jessica Morehouse, in YouTube and find me and subscribe. So for this episode, as I mentioned,

I am interviewing the wonderful Chris Gilbo, New York Times bestselling author of the $100 Startup and Side Hustle and the Happiness of Pursuit. I had him on the show, gosh, over two and a half years ago. It was November 1st, 2017. He was on the show for episode 125. So make sure to check out that episode if you like. But he was on the show for episode 125. So make sure to check out that episode if you like. But he was on the show to talk about side hustles and his book called Side Hustle. For this episode, he is back with a new book called The Money Tree, which is his first work of fiction, which is very exciting. Also, I really, really enjoyed the book. It's a bit, it's pretty timely because basically he, the book is

talking about the character's experience, you know, trying to figure out how could I make money in this kind of not so great economy and how can I become more self-reliant and all this kind of stuff. And now we're kind of entering another possible recession, not to freak you out, but it's probably a good one. So kind of timely book on if you need some kind of motivation. Obviously, the big solution in the book is to find a side hustle. I realize it is not the easiest time to get a side hustle right now because we're all locked at home, but eventually things will improve and there will be more times for side hustles in the future.

So you are going to love this episode with Chris. No sponsor for this episode because global pandemic. But instead, I want to share some things that you may or may not know. Now, number one, I am an accredited financial counselor. And because I'm shifting my business, not doing a ton of events and public speaking right now, I am opening up the doors to new clients. If you are looking for some one-on-one financial help, I'm your gal. So hit me up on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash financial counseling. There's a tab on the main website under counseling, and there you can find more information and sign up for a free discovery call. Or you can just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash discovery call to book a free call with me and see if I, you know, I'm the right gal to help you with your money. And we'd have some fun

because I absolutely love working with clients one-on-one. Another thing that I have been sharing on some of the episodes lately is I have two online courses. And because of the situation we're in, and I wanted to see what are some things I can do as, you know, a business, though I am just like me, just a solo business person. But, you know, also someone who provides a lot of, you know, content and education, what can I do as an extra thing to help people that are also dealing with some tough economic times? And what I made the decision to do because I didn't want to be like, I never want, and you probably know this, I am not this person and I don't want to ever look like this person that it looks like I'm just doing what I'm doing to profit off of you.

If you've been following me for a while, you know I've been creating free content for over eight years. I'm getting close to a decade of creating free content. So I do have a few paid things like the financial counseling sessions, obviously, and my online courses. And then how I make my money is typically working with brands for sponsorships, like on the podcast and doing my own events and public speaking and stuff like that. So since some of these things aren't really happening as much as they were in better times, I'm, you know, have to kind of figure out other ways to make an income for my business. And so one way is my courses. Now, because of that, though, I still want to make these more accessible. And I also know other people are losing their jobs or their hours are being cut. I wanted to do something to help. And so I've decided to

lower the prices for all of my courses or both of my courses. And this isn't just a promotion or a gimmick. I'm just lowering the prices for each of them. So my Fix Your Finances Masterclass, it was originally $2.99. It is now $1.99. And my Investing Foundations for Canadians course, it was $3.99 and I'm reducing the price to $2.99. And these prices will be the prices for the foreseeable future because I just wanted to do what I can to make them more affordable if you're dealing with some uncertain times. I also, in case you still can't afford those, I'm opening up a scholarship application program. So if you want to learn more about investing or fixing your finances, and you really just don't have the money to buy these courses, totally understand. That is why

I am now accepting basic applications. So you can hopefully get a scholarship to one of these courses and get it for free. And so you can find all that information in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 236, 236. You can find more information about all of the things I just mentioned. So without further ado, let's get to that interview with Chris Gilbo. Welcome, Chris, on the show again. It's been, I guess, a few years since you've been on the show. And also, I want to say just a big thank you because the first time

you were on the show, you were so amazing, so great. And I feel like at that point, I think maybe, I don't know if it was in 2017, but maybe it was when you were on the show. I'm going to have to check. But it was just at the beginning of when I had turned my side hustle into my full-time hustle. And so I was so excited to talk to you. It was like the side hustle guru, basically. And you were just so nice and generous and even did that extra thing with me where I did kind of an online virtual book club. You did Facebook Live with me to kind of share more info. So I really appreciate that.

You're just like one of the few people that I feel like is really giving. You always give back, Richard. Oh, you're so kind. You're so very kind to say that. Well, thank you, Jessica. I'm honored to be back and glad to see that you are going strong. I mean, it looks like your website is beautiful. You have all these updates and courses for sale and lots of content. And so, so well done. Good for you. Thanks so much. Yeah. A lot. And honestly, a lot of it has just been like inspired by you and just like a lot of your teaching. So I'm thrilled that you're back with another book already. I know.

The Money Tree, a story about finding the fortune in your backyard. I was reading, like just like, you know, starting to read the book and I was like, this is me. Maybe you got lots of inspiration from people like me, but I'm like, oh my gosh, this reads totally out of my life. It was almost a bit scary. How did you... Yeah, yeah. It was just like, oh my God, this is exactly me. This is so great, which is probably why I absolutely am in love with your book. But what's interesting about your book is you have several books already, but this is your first work of fiction. Why did you decide to do a work of fiction? Yeah, well, like a lot of things I do,

there's not a grand strategy. It's not like I'm, you know, working five years out and like, oh, this is what I want, you know, five years from now or whatever. I just, I like to work on different projects and I like to do different things. And so I never actually thought that I would write fiction at all. It just seemed like a totally different universe to me. I was always a big reader of fiction, but I thought, well, this is like, again, you know, a totally different thing. But I think somewhere along the line, I don't remember what the original genesis of it was. I just started thinking about the characters that are in the story. And for those who are listening, like it is a story, it is fiction, but I'm also teaching through it. So the idea is that, you know, the characters in the story are a model for a lot of other people and, you know, different struggles that they're going through and such.

And so I started thinking about the characters and then I outlined, you know, for maybe three months without actually writing any chapters. Like every day I was just thinking like an hour or so a day, you know, writing down like who are these characters and what's the journey that they're on and so on. And so, and then I actually wrote the whole book without, you know, sharing it with anybody, which is kind of the opposite of how it normally works in nonfiction. You usually sell a book proposal and then write the book and such, but because it was so different, I was like, I have to kind of actually see if I can do it, you know, and do something that I'm, that I'm proud of. But yeah, here we are now, maybe like a year and a half later. And I'm very glad. That's pretty, actually pretty good.

I know a lot of people work on fiction books for years. So it was pretty impressive that you got it done in that short amount of time. How did you find writing a fiction book compared to a nonfiction? Was it easier? Was it just like a total learning experience? I don't know if it was easier or harder. It's like some things are easier, some things are harder. I will say that that outlining stage that I had was so, so helpful because I think I more or less knew what I wanted to do with it. And this is the case in nonfiction as well. Like if you know what you're trying to accomplish, you know, and it's just a matter of getting it done, then that's one thing. You know, if you set out to write a 300 page book and you're not really sure what you want to say,

or, you know, then that's a lot harder. And, you know, I've had both experiences with my nonfiction books as well. So that outlining stage really, really helped a lot. And I can kind of tell, or I could tell as I went through, I think I wrote six or seven drafts of this book. I mean, I actually really tried to, to kind of hone it and refine it. But I could tell like from, you know, two to three and onwards, wherever I was stuck in the, in the, you know, those first drafts, it related to not knowing exactly what I wanted to do, you know, during that outlining stage. So it's definitely a big lesson for me is like, try to think, you know, pretty clearly about what you want to accomplish when you set out to do something like that. Absolutely. So there's obviously, I've read a lot of personal finance books. Let me tell you, I'm sure you have too.

Yeah. And there's not a ton that are basically the, this book will give you so much great information and so many, so many pieces of advice, but it's written in a, you know, fiction form. And there's not a ton of books that do that. There's a couple, not a ton. I actually love books that are written as, you know, a story and fiction with characters. I find I absorb that information more. Is that what kind of drew you to doing things a bit differently? You wanted to kind of maybe reach different people that may not pick up some of your other books. Yeah, I think maybe I did that even subconsciously, not strategically. Again, I mean, now that we're in a different stage and now I'm talking with the publisher about having marketing

and going out to tour and stuff, now these conversations are coming up. And my publisher originally said, this is going to be a book that people will give to their friends who wouldn't read a how-to book. And I was like, that's interesting, but I can't take credit for it. I can't say, oh, in the beginning, I set out to write a book for people's friends. No, I just, I work on stuff that I am excited about. And I find that, I don't think it's only true for myself. I think most of us are,

we tend to be just more successful and more full of life. And we're more purposeful, whatever kind of word you want to use when we're doing something that we're excited about, which is not to say that you should follow every passion and every single thing you know, more purposeful, whatever kind of word you want to use when we're doing something that we're excited about, which is not to say that you should, you know, follow every passion and every single thing you do has to be exciting. But when it comes to the big picture in life, and like, I'm sure you agree as well, because how you left your job and doing what you're doing

now, I think it is pretty important to have some focus and centering there. And so that's, that's pretty much my method is like, what am I excited about? Okay, let's do that. Yeah, no, absolutely. And going back to kind of what I was saying earlier, how I really identified with the main character, like eerily so. I never worked at a marketing agency, but I worked in marketing for a company and we went through a merger. And I'm like, okay, there's a lot of similarities here. And what kind of inspired you to create kind of the main character, which is, I guess, kind of when the reader can see, oh, identify with, this is me. Right. Yeah. So his name is Jake. And I think what inspired it, I kind of knew a little bit about the journey that I wanted him to go on. And in terms of the, okay, so then why did I make certain decisions about the marketing

agency and such? Well, I wanted him to, I regular job, just like lots of people do. I wanted him to be a hard worker, but have that not be enough, not be sufficient in today's economy, which is so common. And so readers kind of find out when they first start the first chapter or two that again, he's a hard worker, but he's in lots of trouble. He's in lots of debt because of his student loans. You know, he's at risk of losing his job because of a merger and his relationship status and all this stuff. He's just under a lot of stress and under a lot of pressure, which I think, you know, so many millennials are. And when he, you know, tries to solve that, you know, the, you know, existing solutions of like,

just work harder or something, you know, don't really work. And so he has to, of course, think differently. And so I know there's so many people in that situation, you know, they may not all be working at a marketing agency, they may not all be living in this part of North America or whatever. But I do think, you know, it's a composite for what a lot of people are going through. Absolutely. And I also find just like in life, it's so true when it seems like everything that could happen happens all at once. Like it is actually pretty realistic in that your job would be kind of in flux and all these other kind of components. Usually I find these things all work together and it's just like compounds and it's like, I don't know, life

trying to test you or something. Right, right. Exactly. So you have to rise to multiple challenges at once. Exactly. And like you said, too, one thing that I think a lot of people can relate to is the fact that he is a hard worker and smart and capable, but that isn't enough. And I feel like that's a big reason why so many people,, especially millennials are switching careers, going back to school or getting a side hustle because they don't feel valued or they don't feel like what they're doing is enough. And they feel like they're, you know, doing everything that they were, you know, told to do and were expected to do. And that's still, it doesn't matter because there's someone like that character Sloan who's just going to take all the credit anyway. Right. Or there's a system

or, you know, whatever. Like, I think that's why so many people are skeptical and cynical. And I think rightly so, you know, sometimes I think the question is approached like, I don't want to say it's always like from an older generation, you know, about a younger generation, but it is often like, well, how do we understand, you know, Gen Z and millennials, because it seems like they're not motivated the same way that other people are motivated, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, the point I always bring up is, well, the system hasn't really worked for a lot of them and they have trusted, they have trusted the system and, you know, they've seen, you know, either that for themselves or for a lot of their friends that it hasn't worked so well.

So why should they trust the system? You know, why should they, you know, be as dedicated and loyal as, you know, maybe you were, and perhaps you weren't actually that, you know, dedicated and loyal, you know, in the first place, because we always kind of like, remember things differently. But I think this, the cynicism is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just, how do we then redirect that into something that's, that's going to be fruitful and productive. And what I appreciate too, is, you know, again, there's lots of other books out there, but a lot of them usually have, you know, maybe similar characters. They also have, you know, financial struggles, but usually the solution they offer is like, well,

save more, automate your savings, cut back. But you kind of present in the book, you're like, yeah, I did that. Now what? Like, and when I talk to, you know, real people that's there in that situation, it's like, I did that. I can't cut back anymore. So now what? And ultimately you have to make more money. Yeah. And I'm so glad you stressed that point. I think you do that in a lot of your work, which is so important because that's just, if they just keep trying to be frugal, I mean, it's good to be frugal, of course, but that's not going to solve the problem. And that's also something that I'm trying to just really emphasize a lot. Frugality is not going to solve the problem. The gig economy is not going to solve the problem.

In fact, in some ways it exacerbates it because there's this, you know, false promise being put forward by a lot of these companies. You know, you can work for us and own your own business when in reality they control every aspect of the environment and the competition and ultimately your compensation.

And, you know, if they don't like you, they can kick you off the platform. So it's not your own business at all. Right. So you got to find, you have to find your own, your own way. But then of course, you know, not everybody wants to be an entrepreneur, which is why I'm trying to put forward this like alternative path. Exactly. And yeah, you kind of mentioned the book too, because there's a part where he was thinking of like being an Uber driver or something like that. And yes, it's, that's the thing. It's like, you're not an entrepreneur. You are working for a company as a contractor, you know? And I think that's when I talk to people about side hustles and I think a lot of this, you know, comes from

the education that you put out about side hustles. It's not a part-time job. It's not a second job. You're not an employee or a contractor. It's like something that you own that you can control. And that's the whole point. Cause you're already an employee somewhere else and you want a solution. So, yeah, I mean, you already have stuff that you have to do for your job. And like, let's say you even have a good job, you know, you like your job, but there's probably stuff you do just because you have to do it. And that's just the normal part of life. You know, your side hustle should be this thing that you are looking forward to. Like it should be something you're actually like, as you said, you have ownership and it is an asset.

It's something that you're, you know, you're creating for yourself for options, security, you know, confidence, paying off debt, extra. I mean, there's all these, all these good reasons to do it. And I really liked where, you know, how he's kind of introduced into the world of side hustles as he was brought into this group. That's all about like creating a side hustles. Is that kind of, I'm like, for me, that reminded me of like, Oh, you know, back in the early days, it's still now it's, it's finding a group of like-minded people to help each other, motivate each other. Or now it's, you know, I have a mastermind with other entrepreneurs and stuff like that. Why did you want to make sure you put that in the book? Because I feel like that's a really important element is not trying to go it alone.

Yeah, I put it in the book for that reason, as you said, and also I felt it was important for him to have kind of a mentor figure that's maybe been doing this a bit longer and had some broader experience. And then also the members of the group themselves are kind of intended to be like a chorus, essentially. And so each member of this group, it's called the Third Way, they all have their own kind of income generating project. And some of them are trying to go full time and others are happy for it to be, you know, their sidekick. And so we don't go into like a ton of analysis of all their projects, but at, you know, at all the different meetings, they're like, oh, so-and-so is working on this. Oh, what's the challenge that you're facing and all of that. So it's meant to kind of highlight a range of problems, but then also, as you said, kind of highlight the importance of accountability. Yeah. Which I found it definitely changed, uh, just the direction of my business and just like

how successful I've definitely become more successful as I've, uh, created more of a network and, you know, uh, you know, had mentors or just, you know, peers that are like doing way better than me. And then I can look up to you to see like, what are they doing with their business and how can I kind of take some of that and maybe try it out on my own? So I think it's really important. You also kind of talk about risk. And obviously, one of the kind of pieces of advice in this book is to if you want to start a side hustle, because you want to make money, ultimately, you want to spend as little money as possible, you want to kind of keep risk down as much as you can. Do you want to talk a little bit about why that is so important?

Sure. Well, I think one of the reasons that some people are skeptical of entrepreneurship is because they have this like Shark Tank, Dragon's Den model, which is not a bad model. It's just not the only one where you need to essentially acquire capital one way or another, through investors or through putting it on your credit card or cashing out your savings or whatever. And as you and I know very well, there are so many different little businesses you can start without any money at all. I wrote a book called The $100 Startup years ago, and so many stories have come out of that. And I get emails every single day from people like, I got a $12 startup. You know, this is the sequel or something, you know. So I think on the risk point, I guess the point there is like people think that, oh, I have to embrace risk.

Like I understand I need to do something for myself. So therefore, I need to embrace risk because that's just how it works. It's a little bit scary. But, you know, and I actually kind of frame it like it's, you know, it may be scary to do something new, but you're actually trying to reduce your risk by doing this. It's actually a pretty conservative, you know, financial approach to do this. And for, you know, a lot of people, myself, you know, the risky thing for me to do would be like, try to go out and compete in the job market, right? That would be very risky. You know, I have far more security by investing in myself. And I think to a certain degree, you know, everyone does, whether it's,

you know, 100% always working for yourself or through some combination, you know, lots of people these days are pursuing like a hybrid approach, which is great. But one way or another, investing in yourself is only going to be positive. It's going to bring you rewards, not risk. Yeah. And one thing that I found good when I was doing my side hustle on top of my day job is what I was learning on my own time to improve my side hustle, I can also bring into my day job, which then helped me in my career if I did want to continue that rune. So even if I always kind of tell people this, even if you start a side hustle, it's not a permanent thing. You don't have to do it forever. You can decide to quit and stop and just continue with your own career, but you'll probably be better

off for it because you'll have so many more skills that'll make you more marketable in the job place. Absolutely. The downside is very, you know, limited. Like, and also I'm really glad you said that also about if you don't like it or if it, you know, you can stop doing it, that's okay too. I think that's a big reason why people don't start something because they see it as like, I'm making this, you know, life commitment to something. This is like, you know, I'm 22 or 25 or however old you are, 45. And I have to make this choice that this is going to be my business, you know, that I own for the next 20 years. And you know, the reality is it's probably not going to be, and you know, that's okay. So just accept that and try something. And if it

doesn't work, then try something different. Sounds easy when you say it like that. But do you think part of it is people are afraid that if they stop, it looks like a failure and no one likes to experience that feeling? Yeah, that's a good question. I don't want to say it's easy for sure. I never want to oversimplify. I think the best way to put it is to say, you know, some things are worth trying for, you know, some things are worth, some things are worth it, you know, like not everything in life is easy, but a lot of things that are meaningful, you know, are worth the effort. I just, you know, it doesn't have to be extremely expensive. It doesn't have to be like I go back to school and get, you know, my four-year degree again or my two-year degree or whatever it is.

And then what were you saying about how, what was the second part of your comment or question? to school and get, you know, my four-year degree again or my two-year degree or whatever it is. And then what were you saying about how, what was the second part of your comment or question? Just that I think that a lot of people... Oh, the failure. Yeah, just a lot of people are afraid to start because they think that they have to continue it forever. And even though they can stop it, they're afraid to stop it because they might think that optically that'll look like they failed. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a lot of different approaches there. I mean, one approach is, I mean, depending on what kind of project is, you don't actually have to tell people about it. Yeah, that's true. You know, you can tell people about it when it's a success. That's one approach. Another approach is to just understand that that

is part of the process. And, you know, pretty much anyone who's ever had any kind of business that, you know, in the longterm, at least they're going to have lots of different iterations of that at a minimum, if not completely different businesses. So whenever I hear statistics about, and that these statistics are always like, kind of changing, so you never know what's really true. But it's like, the percentage of small businesses that fail, you know, within five years or whatever, it's always this high number. And what is not revealed there is like, okay, what's the percentage of people that did this for a while and it actually worked, but then the market changed or they changed or they learned something and then applied it to something else or it didn't work, but then it led them to the thing that really did. So there's so many other ends to that story. Yeah, exactly.

And lots of times you'll start one thing and then you'll kind of pivot throughout the years and end up somewhere different. And that doesn't mean that's a failure. It just means that's kind of the journey you went on. And that's, that's fine. I mean, even in my own business, it's definitely shifted, uh, like a lot since I started just three years ago into like, what are my main income streams? Um, so you just never know what, you know, what your business will look like in a few years. Yeah. And I'm sure it will continue to change. You know, it will continue to change both because of yourself, like the skills that you acquire, the experiences that you have as your interests change. And then also, you know, again, as the market changes and people engage with online content differently and there's new mediums and new platforms, which is not to say

you're always like, like you can still have a North star. You can still have like, this is my message and so on. But, um, I think, uh, successful people are open to, to change, you know, and open and not just holding onto this. This is the thing that I have to do. Absolutely. Um, one sentiment, and I feel like this is said a couple of times in the book is the, uh, idea that you can do more than you think, which really hit home for me. And I think people need to hear that more often because especially if you're working nine to five, you're not getting that motivation at work, let me tell you. And no one's telling you, you can do more than you think. You are valuable.

Just try. Why is that something you really wanted to get across in the book? Yeah. I mean, I think affirmation in general is really important and underdone or undervalued. And I think, like I do events all across North America and elsewhere. And I think, you know, I, like I do events, you know, all across North America and elsewhere. And, um, like for this one, I'm on the road, I'm going to like 40 different cities. And, uh, you know, I often hear from people who just, they, they're kind of downcast or they haven't believed in themselves. And it's, it's so good to, you know, to your point earlier about accountability, we have a room full of a hundred people or 200 people at the events. And it's like, look at all these, like all these people have the same goal. Like we're like-minded,

they have different paths, different projects, et cetera. But you know, we're all on this journey together. And if you know, so-and-so can do it, then so can you, if I can do it, you can too. Right. And that's, um, it's also like what I try to do, like with the podcast is just sharing stories and like, you're not alone out there. So kind of going off on that, how, what are some good ways that people can seek out more motivation? Cause I feel like there's a lot of people talking about the hustle or entrepreneurship and sometimes it's motivating and sometimes it's demotivating. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think actually, I mean, you know, I mean, obviously I am an author like you, I'm creating content, I want people to to enjoy that and learn from it. However,

I'd be the first to say, like, you know, you know, taking action is actually more important, right? Like, if you have to choose between one thing, if you keep, if you just keep reading books and listening to podcasts, and then you're going to acquire, you know, a certain amount of knowledge, but that knowledge is going to multiply once you start trying to do something about it. So I think actually a lot of the motivation comes through the doing of it, which is why your project doesn't have to be huge in the beginning. It doesn't have to be like this super elaborate thing. If you can make a couple of hundred dollars a month, I'm sure you've seen this as well with people you talk to,

then it's very motivating. Like that is the motivation. Like once you start making any amount of money, people are disproportionately thrilled about it. You know, they're like, wow, you know, I had to work 30 hours to make this hundred dollars, but you know, I did it for myself. And that I think is what you need to be focused on. And I know there's another piece of advice in your book, which is, you know, when you are designed to start a side hustle launch before you're ready. I've heard that a couple of times before. I've always had a hard time actually putting that into action because I am an overthinker perfectionist, but I have actually started doing that a little bit more because I'm like, you know what? I have a finite amount of years and time. I don't want to waste it. And I actually have found that to be helpful, though it is, depending on what you're trying to launch,

give yourself some time. But I think that's a really important message too. Yeah. I mean, also, I think you need to model it. You know, you need to model it for all the people that are following you because you're telling them, you know, that they need to move forward. So I think you have to also kind of step out like that. But for me also, like I, I would totally overthink things and like put them off. That's probably why I work with traditional publishers, because I can't do that. You know, like I have a, you know, the book is coming out on such and such a date, and I can't go to them a month earlier and say, actually, I need more time, you know, because I would always I would do that 100% of the time. But fortunately, I can't. So I've kind of created that that structure.

Yeah, no, 100%. That deadline is very important. That is actually the structure I used for my recent fix your finances courses. Basically, I launched it before the course was actually finished. Right? Yeah, that's guys, you have to like, you're always one step ahead. Yeah, you're like the teacher who's reading the chapter, you know, the night before, you know, the class. Yeah, but I mean, it was like the first time I've ever done it. But honestly, it's been I mean, it's stressful. I'm tired, but it's so worth it because then at the end of it, I'll have a fully, you know, created course that I can go on to sell. So, but then again, I was very strategic. I knew I already kind of had an outline and a plan. I

wasn't just like working with a blank slate or anything like that. So. Right. You knew you could do it. It was a matter of like, you know, just pushing yourself to step out. Yeah, exactly. And I think what got me to that point, too, was in the past, taking those small actions that built up, built up, built up. So I had that experience and that confidence and that skill set. So I could build a course while it was happening. Right, your motivation, so your motivation came through the experience that you had. And it gave you confidence to take on a bigger goal and say, Okay, now I'm going to, you know, put this out even though it's not done because I know I can finish it. Exactly. And the more actions you take on, the better you'll get and the easier I feel like the whole kind of game is really. Yeah. so much out of your book and probably just breeze through it because again, it's not your typical how-to book. It's a narrative, which I find just like very easy to read and identify with, which is great. Where can people find more information about The Money Tree,

more information about you too? Awesome. You are so kind again. So my name is Chris Gillibeau. The book is called The Money Tree. They can go to moneytreebook.com. That's where the tour schedule is. I'm doing events all across North America, hopefully eventually beyond, or they can ask for it at any bookstore or online retailer. And my social is just my name, which no one can spell. But if you type in something close to Chris Guillebeau, then you should find me on, you know, all the platforms. Amazing. Well, thanks so much for taking the time once again to be on the podcast. It was a pleasure to catch up with you. Thank you. So cool. Thank you, Jessica. And that was episode 236 with Chris Gilbo. Make sure to grab a copy online or go to your library because I know lots of libraries are physically closed, but you can still go online. I mean,

honestly, that's how I have an ebook. And so I just get all my library books online and get a copy of his book, The Money Tree, out now. Also, you may want to check out his other books, The $100 Startup and Side Hustle and The Happiness of Pursuit. Lots of great books he has. And also make sure to check out his podcast, Side Hustle School. It has apparently been downloaded more than 2 million times per month, which is crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. And lastly, of course, you can go to his website, chrisgilbo.com, follow him at Chris Gilbo for Twitter, and you can follow him on Instagram at 193 countries. So as I mentioned, check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 236 to learn about more of the stuff that we talked about in this episode. But also I shared at the beginning of this episode,

so I am officially now accepting new clients to my financial counseling program. So if you want some one-on-one help with your finances, that is a service that I provide. I am a fee-only financial counselor. I do not sell any products. I do not manage anyone's investment portfolio. All I offer is fee for service, guidance, help, and advice. That is what my program is all about. So if you need some help, honestly, just like developing a financial plan, that is what I do. That's my specialty. I love doing it. And you can sign up for a free discovery call with me to learn more about how I can help you with your particular situation. Go to jessicamorehouse.com slash discovery call. Or again, you can find information in the link in the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 236. And as I also mentioned, I have courses,

I have online courses, Fix Your Finances Masterclass and Investing Foundations for Canadians. You can find those courses, jessicamorehouse.com slash courses, or just go to my website, you can find them. But I have reduced the price for both of them by $100 each. So they're more affordable, more accessible, hopefully, because we're all dealing with uncertain financial times. I want to do what I can afford to do at this moment to make things a little bit easier for people. But also, if you cannot afford those, I'm also doing a scholarship program. So you can apply to get a scholarship for one of these courses if you

cannot afford the price take, but you do want to upgrade your skills and just better your financial life. I want to help you. This is why I'm doing what I'm doing. I actually want to help you. I do not have crazy dreams of being some rich person. I literally just want to make a living and help people and like do what I love, which is creating content about personal finance. So hopefully I am able to do that and help you. Um, and I know I have been, I think I am because I've been getting a lot of amazing messages from people on Instagram or just over email or Twitter saying that, you know, they really appreciate what I'm doing and listening to the podcast. And that means a lot to me. I really, really do appreciate that. I appreciate the support because we're all going through it. We're all going through it. One last kind of plug is if you are not currently

subscribed to my YouTube channel, I'm creating a ton of videos because again, stuck at home, got lots of time on my hands. So you can check that out. Jessica Morehouse is the YouTube channel. You can just Google that or go to jessicamorehouse.com slash YouTube to check it out. But I'm coming out more with videos about what we're all dealing with. So I have one about like how to deal with, you know, mental health side of things, what it means to be in a bear market. And I just came out with a new video about CURB, the Canada Emergency Response Benefits. So if you want to learn more about what exactly that is, if you're eligible and how to apply, I made a quick video about that. You can find out. But yeah, subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Come on. It's kind of fun. Okay, so that is it for me. I have, like I mentioned, an episode tomorrow with Erin Lowry and then another episode with me, a Money Minute episode this Friday. So stay tuned for all those. Thank you so much for listening. I will see you here tomorrow.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.