More Money Podcast - 247 Baby-Proofing Your Finances - Shannon Lee Simmons, CFP & Founder of The New School of Finance

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

Ask and you shall receive! Having a guest on to talk about starting a family and what to do with your finances has been a popular request from listeners, so I’m excited to finally share this episode! I of course thought of having Shannon Lee Simmons on the show to talk about this. Not only is she an amazing guest (listen to her on episode 151 and episode 184), she’s also a mom and offers baby-proofing your finances services as part of her financial planning firm – The New School of Finance. Shannon mentions in this episode that as a financial planner, she works will people all the time who come to her worried that they have to achieve a certain amount of wealth before they can start a family. But the truth is, people all around the world have kids in different circumstances, and they make it work with little or a lot! It’s all about your expectations and figuring out how to balance them with your income. Moreover, you don’t need to buy all the things! Although having kids can be expensive, there are a number of ways you can save money and make it work within the constraints of your income. It may mean cutting some expenses, or putting a pause on some future plans. But people do it all the time, and so can you. For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/247 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Momenty Podcast. Once again, this is episode 247. And oh boy, do I have an amazing episode for you. This one, actually, the topic of this episode is something I've been getting requests for over DMs and emails and Twitter for a while. So this shows that if you do let me know what you want on the show, I will try my best to get an expert to talk about it. So this episode is all about baby-proofing your finances. So basically, if you were thinking of having a baby or starting a family in the near future, the far future, it's just something that you've been talking about with your partner, and you don't know where to start because the whole idea is freaky. I get it. It terrifies me still. It terrifies me to the core.

Obviously, I do not have children because I don't know what's going on. And that's why I have Shannon Lee Simmons on the show to talk about it. So part of her, she has the new school of finance, financial planning practice. Part of what she does with clients is help them specifically plan for starting a family. And so I knew she'd be the perfect guest for this show. In case you don't know, I haven't been a longtime listener, maybe you have, but if not, just a little refresh too.

I've had Shannon on the show twice before, episode 151, where we talked about her first book that she released in 2018 called Worry-Free Money. Grab that book. It is one of my favorites. I read it, loved it, recommend it all the time. It makes you feel good about, well, I mean, you don't worry about, it's called Worry-Free Money. It's about feeling good and not worrying about your money and doing some really helpful things to get your finances back on track. I also had her on the show a year later. She released another book called Living Debt Free, episode 184. I'm going to put the show a year later. She released another book called Living Debt Free,

episode 184. I'm going to put these in the show notes. Just go to jessicamarash.com slash 247 to check those out. We talked about basically her new book, Living Debt Free, which is all about debt repayment and how to get out of debt, but in a good, positive, happy way. Getting out of debt shouldn't make you feel bad or you shouldn't feel shamed. And that's kind of her whole vibe, which is why I've had Shannon on the show so many times. And I'm sure I'll have her back on the show in the future. She's just such a positive light and has such good tips and advice, quite honestly. So I can't wait for you to listen to this episode with Shannon. Just in case you haven't listened to those shows, just a little info for you. So Shannon Lee Simmons is an

award-winning certified financial planner, speaker, chartered investment manager, and founder of the New School Finance. She has two books, like I mentioned, Worry-Free Money and Living Debt-Free, and they're both bestsellers. And she's also a personal finance writer for The Globe and Mail, as well as CBC Radio's Metro Morning Money columnist and financial expert on The Marilyn Dennis Show. So we're gonna have a great time in this episode. But before I get to that interview with Shannon, just want to share a few words about this episode's podcast sponsor. This episode of the Momany Podcast is supported by Jenny Life. Just over a year ago, my older sister had her first child, and as chaotic as becoming a new mom can be, getting life insurance to protect her family was still at the top of her to-do list. Maybe me being

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Welcome back to the show, Shannon. This is your third time on the show. I know. I just can't get enough. I know. I can't get enough. That's why you're on the show. I feel like there's only maybe one or two guests who've been on the show three times, but I mean, you keep on putting out books. Or I'm like, who should I talk to about the specific topic? I'm like, I always think of you. You just know so many things. And so I'm so excited because I have gotten this request to talk about this topic for, I think, way too long, probably a few years. Being like, hey, can you have someone on the show to talk about starting a family, having kids and the costs involved?

And I'm like, I do not have kids, and I don't know what's involved. I did ask my older sister who had a baby a year ago, my niece who I'm obsessed with. She is so organized. She has a spreadsheet of preparing for baby, and she does the budgeting. And so I kind of looked at that, but I'm like, I need to know. Because part of your services at the new school of finance is you help people with this specific thing. So I'm like, okay, well, you know about this. Let's talk about it. Yeah. We call it baby proofing your finances. Like such a thing. So is that like actually a very common thing? People were like, oh, I need to talk specifically

about this because I feel like no one talks about the costs or how to budget or how to even think about this. Yeah. I think we're all aware that kids cost money. That's like a that's in the zygos. We all know it. But I feel like what doesn't get talked about is like this is like the specifics. And also, I'm people want to well, and I'm sure this will come up today. People always want to say, like, when do I know when I can afford to have a kid? That's the huge question that I get. And so that and then the nervousness around biting off more than you can chew financially and how does it affect your finances? That's very common with all the other parenthood anxiety.

Okay, let's start there because I am actually curious. Now, I'll kind of share a little bit of my situation. Me and my husband have been together for a while and we're still still on the – we don't know if we want kids or not. We're just playing it by year every year. As we get older, we're like, we're going to have to start making a decision, a final decision soon, so we'll see how it goes. But part of, I think, my – especially in my 20s, I'm like, I definitely don't want kids in my 20s, even though we were together and married. Part of the reason was financials. I'm like, I don't think – we can hardly afford to feed ourselves.

We have a family. And so I think that is, yeah, such a common question. How do you know when you can afford it? How much money do you need in the bank? Or how much do you need to be earning? What are the things that you should be thinking about? Okay, so I'm going to burst everyone's bubble here and say that there's no magic amount of money that you need to be making or having your bank account because people all over the world parents make it work with so much and parents make it work with so little and so it really comes down to like so much with finances what are your expectations for the lifestyle that you want to live and that you want for your kids that is the

question so it doesn't matter what you make because life and that you want for your kids? That is the question. So it doesn't matter what you make because life and parenting is what you make of it. And you can make that work with whatever income that you have. And so even if you're sitting there and saying like, well, I'm dead, I can't have kids. Like that's not necessarily true, but we want to make sure is that you have, um, you know, cashflow coming in and a plan to make sure that you can pay your bills and you can feed the fam and you can live whatever lifestyle it is that you are willing to accept for yourself and for your kids. That is the magic sauce right there. But what I do like to flush out for people is that there's kind of three things

that are going to be impacted in your financial life by having kids. So there's the buildup to having the baby. So before the baby even comes, there are costs. So maybe you're doing IVF and there are expenses with that. Maybe you want to freeze your eggs to like buy some time until later. There's these $10,000 a pop kind of thing. There's all these fertility costs now that are such a new thing. So that's even before the baby. And the thing that is interesting about fertility costs is that I have this conversation all the time because there's no guarantees, right?

So you're spending money on something that is important to you and there's no guarantee. So it's a scary thing to do, but also a wonderful thing to do if that's what you want for your journey. So there's those upfront costs. There's also the cost of like a baby is coming. Now I have to buy a crib. Now I have to buy, you know, maybe I need a car for the first time. You don't need a car,

but maybe I feel like I need a car. Like those kinds of costs before I can even get there. Then there's the ongoing cost of raising a human being. And this I can flesh out a little bit more. So that includes daycare, which I think is like, Oh, that's like the biggest, I think expense that freaks me out should freak you out. Yeah. I think it's as much as a mortgage sometimes. It's more than my mortgage. That's crazy. Yeah. I pay for two kids. I pay three thousand dollars a month um which is more than my mortgage payment which is crazy uh so a mantra that I would say to people though is that that's

not that's because I have a younger kid who's in care and it's different word depending on where you live and I always say this to parents so if you take a mat leave or a parent leave your income's gonna get one one person's income gonna get chopped right in half right that's like your training wheels for daycare because you've already learned how to live with a fraction of the money that you're usually used to and so when the daycare years come and you go back to work, maybe you might still be working with the same like reduced amount of spending money that you had all the way through mat leave. And usually mat leave is like the worst of times. So even afterwards, with daycare and an income, it tends to be marginally better than what happened while you're on that mat leave. And I always say or

parental leave, I always say to parents to like, during those early child rearing years where there's a parental leave, maybe two parental leaves within like three or four years of each other. There's childcare, these are the worst financial years of your life, but they're not forever. They are for now. They are not forever. And that is a huge, huge, calming tidbit to keep in the back of your mind. Because if you're looking out and you're saying like, okay, well, I want a family, but I can't afford daycare. It's like, okay, well, 30 years from now, when you look back, what those those are three or four years of your life where things were insane. And usually the only saving school I have for new families is just don't try not to go into debt or like too much. That's it. You don't like those three or four years are not going to make

or break retirement for you. Um, those three or four years are just basically survival mode financially. And like, if you come out of that with as little debt as possible, I think that's a win. I think it was super win. Yeah. I think a lot of people and myself included may not have actually thought that it is more expensive at the beginning than later because i always kind of thought that older kids are more expensive but i guess it depends totally depends again lifestyle right so i mean if you keep kids in private school and they're in rep hockey and stuff well well yeah i mean it's gonna that that exact same chunk of money is gonna just gonna be constant for the rest of your life. But for so many of my clients, anyways, it's this surge in the beginning. And then what happens, a trick that we use, which might be helpful for any of your

listeners, is, okay, so you kind of get used to like a goldfish, you like, you like, you like expand or contract depending on like, what your, what your environment is. So during these years, you kind of learn to like, pull it in to just like sustain. And then once the daycare costs are coming down, because as your kid gets older, or if they go to school, then I take all of that money that used to go to daycare and start back channeling it into like, savings accounts and investment accounts, which is saving way more than somebody usually would on a monthly basis. But it's kind of like we're making up for that lost time. And I usually calculate that out at the beginning. And it's a five year. So it's like three or three or four years of craziness, and then one or two years of

that sustained rate of savings. And then you're right at where you would be. It's like it never happened. That is so smart. It's kind of like the same ideas, you know, once you've paid off all your debt, put that amount that you're contributing to your debt into savings. Same kind of concept. Exactly. You're already used to losing that money, so let's back channel it. And that provides a lot of comfort for so many of my clients because there is this fear that they're going to decimate their financial plan. And then in Canada, anyways, the average cost of one kid per year has been worked out by StatsCan to around $13,000 a year. That's not really including child care. That's like the extra cost of like food in your house, like kids activities that are like piano lessons or whatever.

And again, that's not including exceptional things like competitive dance or competitive hockey or something like that. So they're pretty much the standard. So what I like to do is whenever I'm doing a financial plan for someone and they don't have kids, I will ask the awkward question in the room. And I will announce it. I'll be like, I'm gonna ask something that might be an emotional hot button here. I'm not trying to I just like trying to be smart about money. And I'll be like, our kids on the radar, is it a conversation that you're having? And so I get a variety of answers. But I will ask that. And if the answer is, yeah, we talk about it, we're not sure, but we talk about it, or whatever, then what I'll do is if we're trying to decide if they can afford a house or something

like that, I usually just stick in an extra $1,000 a month into their fixed expenses to kind of represent the cost of raising a human. And if they can still pay their mortgage, still save for retirement and float that extra thousand dollars and then their finances are baby proof, go forth. If you have kids, you can afford it in that house. And if you don't, whatevs, you got extra money, go on a big trip, right? Probably the smartest financial decision. So that's, that's what I do. Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like a good tip. Yeah. So it sounds like a good tip. Yeah.

So it sounds like a good tip if people are like, figure it like, should we, shouldn't we or whatever is kind of to make kind of a fake budget, like a pretend budget to be like, is this something that we can do based off like what we're, can we float it? Is this something that makes sense? Can we float it? Yeah. Yeah. About a thousand bucks a month for a family.

Yeah. And that's according to, that's according to stats camp, right? Like that's the extra cost. That's helpful. That's really helpful. Um, I feel like too, a lot of people may want to also think about saving for their kids education. Now this to me, I'm like, Mike, my parents had enough to keep us alive and not enough. And us through school. And so I think because of that, you know, me, my sister, all of us are like, oh, we're, you know, kids, we're definitely want to be able to provide that.

But that's also an extra cost. And I think, I mean, I've had lots of conversations where people are so focused on saving for their kids' education, they're not even saving for their own retirement. And I think that's another thing. It's like when you have kids, it's important to do what you can for them, but also don't sacrifice you, you know, protect yourself because you know, totally. Well, I always use the, I see that often. Um, and now that I'm a mom, I, I understand the urge to do it, but, and you have to like logic your

brain out of the emotional want to do that. Right? So I often say it's like lighting yourself on fire financially to keep your kids warm. Or like, that's exactly what it is, because it's a protective thing, right? So I completely understand it. But the analogy, I love to speak in analogy, when you're on a plane, and it's going down, do you put the mask on your kid first? Or do you put the mask on yourself first that you can then provide security to your child? It is the exact same with money. So you put your own financial mask on first and then you provide financial security for your children.

And that is so successful because a parent who has a solid foundation financially knows that in the long run, they're not going to be quote a burden. And these are words that have clients have said to me, I'm not, I're not going to be quote a burden. These are words that have clients have said to me, I'm not I'm not saying that parents are a burden. I'm saying these are the fears that keep some parents up at night on your kids. You feel confident in securing your decisions that is a less stressed out, happier family unit or like functioning parent, because money when our money is not um what makes us stressed out it impacts literally every aspect of our life it doesn't matter who you are no one is no one is

immune to that um and so like having that solid foundation is just going to make you a happier healthier person overall and then therefore you're going to be able to provide other things for for your family that you may not have before so i always say let's take care of first. I think financial planning is like a form of self-care. I really do. Me too. Actually, I've been saying that to a lot of people probably because we're living in this weird world and people are so anxious and just like, don't know what to do. And they're like, should I do this? I'm like, honestly, yeah. Taking care of your finances during a crisis, the best thing you can do. It's also a form of self-care if you want to go a little woo-woo

and need some kind of reasoning behind it, you know? Yeah, yeah. It makes you feel, yeah, it makes you feel in control. And we have so little control over what's happening right now. And in parenting, you have so little control over so much, right? Like there's things in your day

that you just have to roll with and surrender to chaos sometimes. And so having that solid financial um plan even even if it's like 10 bucks a month like I think people think it has to be dramatic and exciting it really doesn't to make you feel confident and secure it doesn't have to be huge yeah and one I mean it's kind of nice that I have a sister who has uh I guess a toddler now to see like what the reality looks like. So I get all the details. And yeah, I think she was very like, I mean, she created a spreadsheet before she had the kid and now she budgets and all that kind of stuff. So she's super organized. But it kind of, yeah, like you said, it's like, you kind of make it work. And even during like, what a weird time

to have a new baby during covid but you know you make it work and so many people out there are making it work so it's not impossible but like you said also you have to be very flexible and i think a lot of people aren't maybe used to that what are some things that they can that may they may not have um especially during this time i'm sure we've had some experiences too or clients um What are some things that this may happen just so you know, that they may not have ever thought about? Ooh, like, and that affects your finances big time. Yeah. Okay. So one of them is kids having allergies and now your grocery bill is through the roof. It's something that you never thought about, but your kid can eat eggs or gluten or whatever. So you're always buying like

top rate groceries, organic, all that stuff. And that could be, and if you don't have experience with that personally, that can come as a huge sticker shock as far as the cost of raising your little one is. That's like, surprise, this is extra. That's a huge one. Any sort of learning disability or any sort of physical disability, that's also something that's going to impact your finances in a in a big way that is completely out of our control and could happen right it's just like surrendering to the the chaos of it um on the other end in a more lighter way uh kids kids will find whatever they're interested in and that

might be expensive yeah and and so uh what happens what, you can't force your kid to like a certain sport or a certain activity. You can introduce them to a bunch of stuff. They're going to be who they're going to be. And so what I've seen sometimes is like parents really struggling with some of those extracurriculars because it just lights their kid up. It's like their kid is just so happy. It's their community. They've got their friends.

Like I'm talking specifically about like competitive dance and hockey here where the bill, the bill is like 13 grand a year alone. And, but like that, that is that kid's whole life. And, and so what do you do? Right. Like, do you, do you pull your kid out and, or do you watch them thrive? And, and like, like that's a, that is a tough call, right? So like, those are some of the surprises if your kid is a, is gifted or has some sort of something, has something and you want to nurture it and it's very expensive. That's like, that's such a thing as well, that, that tends to take parents by surprise and they will just make

it a priority above other things, which I understand that when I often try to balance that because I get it. And then last but not least, not last but not least, there's there's tons of other surprises. But one noteworthy one, I think is, this is not to freak out anybody out there who's like, in this situation. But unexpected twins. Oh my gosh. Like surprise. So I've seen so many, so many in my day and especially wild when it's baby number two. And so now you have a surprise family of three kids and that might mean a whole, that might mean you have to move or it might mean a new car. Cause there's literally not enough physical seats in your vehicle for that family. And so that that extra push and that unexpected, oh, my gosh, is kind of like one of those, well, gonna make it work. And that that's why it really comes back to everybody makes it work. There is no right way to do it.

Yeah, I think that's such an important thing to maybe remind yourself of. If you're listening, you're like, this is me. It's like, there's no right way. Well, that's like a good thing. I tell everybody in general, when it comes to personal finance, like there's no right way. There's so many different ways to get to the same result. And so people love to share their opinions. Doesn't matter. Do whatever makes sense for you, right? Do what you can do. It makes sense for you. And the should I, shouldn't I, or can I afford it always comes down to your own lifestyle expectations. Nobody else's your expectations on yourself. And the only reason that you'll feel like you can't afford kids is if what your expectations are for how you want to

raise them cannot be shifted. You cannot roll with it. And you can't reframe. So like if you have a vision of what it's supposed to be and maybe financially you're not where you think that is for you or like how you were raised, you can't necessarily provide in this current economy, which is very, very like that's very normal with housing prices the way that they are and they have been over the last decade and stagnant wages and the rise of the gig economy. I mean, like so many people were raised in a way that would be something for only like really wealthy people nowadays. Right. And so the middle class life is not what it, what it used to be. Um, and so expectations need to be adjusted or else you're going to feel like you're constantly broke or you're going to feel like you

shouldn't, you can't afford things, uh, whether it's starting a family, go back to school, starting a business, whatever. Yeah. I think one thing, cause you mentioned housing is people have this idea. And I think this is, you know, got for our parents and our grandparents. We need a house. We need a yard. We need all of this. We need space. But I think a lot of people raise kids in cities and apartments and it's just fine. But a lot of people are like, I need to buy something. And that's actually something my sister did. I mean, she was waiting to buy anyway, but I mean, while pregnant, they bought their first apartment, um, in Vancouver, which was expensive, but they're glad they did it. But yeah, I think a lot of people have this idea. Like not only do we,

are we having a baby? We need to, we need to become homeowners. Do you see that a lot? Yeah. I see it all the time. Um um and I think there's a couple of things going on there so one just to reiterate what you just said and echo it like there are people all over the world who are raising kids in all kinds of different ways right what I have learned over the time um like I've been you know talking to people about their lives for 12 years on the front line of financial planning is people tend to want to mimic what they had when they were raised because it feels familiar. So if you were raised in a house with a backyard, the idea of raising a kid in a flat feels scary and unknown to you. So it's not about judging

someone or that we can't do that. It's that they're not sure what that looks like. And people, when it comes to raising a family, you want to know what it looks like. It feels predictable. That makes you feel safe. And so that is really what it's about whereas people who are raised in cities um who may have lived in flats or had a patio or whatever they're like yeah it's super normal because that that's how they were raised right and for them moving to the country might feel terrifying because they're like what do you do who do you talk to like there's it's it's all about what you know and what makes you feel secure and so it's it's rarely about the actual money piece but the problem is these things cost money um so i definitely see

that and the only thing i will say about the homeowner thing there is something intangible with people i've learned because i think that renting forever you can have an amazing financial life that way and i know so many people who have made it work because they just got priced out of the housing market. But there is this longing that comes, especially when people are wanting to build a family for roots. And I can tell you why after talking to so many people where that's coming from, that doesn't mean that you have to buy a house you can't afford. But here's the pain point of why that happens so much. And I see people just overspend way out of their budget to buy a house no matter what.

So when you have a family, that kid is going to start making neighborhood friends. That kid is going to go to a daycare close by and the school. And you want to know that that's permanent. You want to know that it's in your control as to whether or not you leave that neighborhood. And so when you're renting, if you're single, or if it's just you and a partner, and you get evicted, because they're going to demo the house or whatever it is, you're like, okay, that sucks. But it's okay, I'm a grown up. Whereas there are all these social community ties now for that little one, and you want to make it predictable for that little one and so buying feels like roots and now your environment is more in your control and so so that is where that urge comes from to do that which I completely understand and um so I don't ever shame anyone but that is

also the thing to think about is that you don't need to own a home but that's why you feel like you need to own a home which is totally reasonable And it's also why I see people buying places that they is way out of their budget. Um, because the urge to nest is, and to set roots for a family, very strong, so strong, very strong evolution. I think that's exactly what happened with my sister. Cause she's like, I need stability. I need to do this. And you're like, you were fine and everything was fine. I know, but it doesn't feel as stable because it's not a hundred percent in your control. So you can't guarantee for that, for that little one. Right. And so it's like, it's like your biology is like telling you to do this and fighting biology is very, very difficult. Yeah. Um, I want to talk a little bit about some kind of tax benefits that people may not even know exist.

Because, I mean, if you're not a parent, then you don't know these things exist. What are some things the government has that you can take advantage of or you can look more into? Yeah. So the CCB in Canada is the big one. So it's a tax-free benefit, which is awesome. And it's income tested. So the more kids you have, and the lower your income, the more you get. And then after a certain point, the household income, you don't get it anymore. But that's you're probably making a really nice income to bring home. So the CCB, there's an estimator on the government website as well. It's called the Canada care or childcare benefit. And that's our federal government right now. So that's across Canada. So that's number one. Number two, the one good thing about daycare is that it's tax deductible. So it works a lot like an RRSP. So if you're in a situation where you're not putting anything into savings, and you're just coasting through those childcare years, a nice little savings tip is to the first $8,000 for a kid under six. If you have a receipt from

like an actual registered childcare facility, that counts as like an $8,000 deduction. If you have two kids, like I have a $16,000 deduction happening on my taxes this year, because I have 8,000 for each kid. So that's the exact same as far as a refund goes as me putting $16,000 into my RRSP. So I use that refund that I've created from the child care to then I put that into a TFSA or I put that into an RRSP or something. So if you can't make it happen on a month to month basis, because the cash flow demands are just so high, then don't forget that you have that sweet refund coming and then you can use that to do some of that heavier lifting. Yeah. Oh, that's helpful. I don't think that you have that sweet refund coming and then you can use that to do some of that heavier lifting. Yeah. Oh, that's helpful. I don't think I actually knew about that. So that's,

and I think maybe some other people may not have known that. So keep your receipts. Oh my God. I mean, hard to forget about them because it's like the biggest expense in your life. But definitely making sure that you're taking advantage of that and maybe making it part of your holistic plan. I think that's what people forget. They get, you forget. They get these massive refunds and it just kind of falls in the ether. And so really being specific and targeting what the goal is for that refund while you have these massive expenses, it's really the only benefit to how much it costs. Yeah, definitely. Now, I know we just have a few more minutes before I let you go. But since you're a mom, you have two small children. I'm so curious, what was your... I know we just have a few more minutes before I let you go. But since you're a mom, you have two small children.

I'm so curious. What was your, like, I know you deal with clients all the time, but what was your personal experience before kids and after kids? Any kind of surprises or like, oh, okay. Yeah, definitely. I went through the, I have to buy a house thing. I rented and I was like, I still am pro rent, but I had this maniac, like, like, like I was a maniac. I was like, I need to buy something for my family that that

doesn't exist yet. And like, I wasn't even pregnant. And like, I was like, I was like, thinking I had to do that. And we didn't, we actually didn't buy anything. Like I got pregnant, I had my first baby. And then we actually bought something when he was two years old. So I, I, I like logicked my way through it. But I absolutely felt that like urge to do that. And we couldn't at that time, like it wasn't possible for us to do that. But I had to constantly fight the urge to to make it happen. So that definitely was something that that took me completely by surprise. And then I knew the cost of childcare. So that didn't actually come as like a full shock

to me. And like, I really accept it, even though I find it ludicrous. Childcare is so important. And our childcare providers are amazing, and they need to be paid. And they it's like, I'm happy to do that. I think the biggest thing that I was like, I don't know, shocked about was just the amount that you spend before the baby even comes. And I was trying to not do that, to not overspend and like using hand-me-downs for my sister and like, like the online mom markets and stuff. And I still was shocked at like car seat, crib, stroller, like the whole thing. And it's just like, you end up spending thousands of dollars and you're like, what? Before it even gets started, you know? Well, I guess that's a question a lot of people

have, like how much, like, is there, where did you find information or how did you kind of discover this is how much I spent? Like, or was it just after the fact you found out? After the fact, because you're going to do it. So between all the things we ended up spending about $3,000 upfront for all of the like baby gear and stuff like that stuff yeah now less so the second time around because we already had a crib um we had to buy a new car seat obviously but we already have a stroller so it's like that the the marginal cost of having a child goes down yeah but um so like the second one felt a lot more calm I also knew what to expect so it didn't feel like I was just out of my mind. And there's also something about being a first time parent versus second time parent.

You think you, you, this is my big tip to anyone out there. You think you need all the things because there's a whole industry, very much like the wedding industry that's telling you to be afraid. That's telling you, you need all this gear or else you're a bad parent. Like they don't say that, but that's what's implied. And so you, you don't know what you don't know. And so you end up buying all the things and like getting all the things and then you laugh because I had a swing and like I had a swing for this baby and the baby hated it and I was like who knew so like like I didn't even

need to buy that do you know what I mean so so one thing that I I I often say and I wish that I had had this knowledge when beforehand was like meet your baby and find out who they are first and then buy the toys. So that's not to say you can't have a crinkle toy, but let me tell you when they're an infant, they're not doing much, but like laying there. And then like, I would say, meet your kid and find out what they need first before you try to preemptively guess who they're going to be. And so, so like, if you have a pal who has a swing, go put your baby on it, see if they like it, if they like it. Okay. Well then maybe that's something like, or maybe you can borrow one from somebody else, right? Because the other thing is, especially in that first year and a half, everything is temporary, they might play with that, they might need that swing for like a month, they might need the jolly jumper for like two months, they might need that circle of neglect, like, you know, those saucers that you can put the kid in. I call it the circle of neglect. They might need that for like three months. Like they don't, you don't need this stuff forever. And so the more stuff you can get used or borrow or whatever, the better,

because it can be really easy to get wrapped up and I need all the things and buy it all brand new. And you just, it doesn't need to be that way because your kid might not even like it. Yeah. That's such a smart, that's so smart. that's so smart that's so smart so yeah don't get all the things in advance because you may not need them and then you have all this stuff yeah meet your baby first and the first three weeks that you're a bio blob so you're not missing out yeah we used to call my uh my sister's baby just a potato she just like that's it the first three months the first three weeks they're just like she didn't do anything she was adorable but didn't do potato. She just like, that's it. The first three months, the first three weeks, they're just like, she didn't do anything. She was adorable, but didn't do a damn thing. Just like watch movies and put them on your chest. The best.

Exactly. Um, so before I let you go, so I know you help people with this stuff all the time. So I know people are gonna listen to this and be like, I still want someone to help me. Where can they find more information about the new school finance and this kind of service that you offer? And then of course you have your books. We'll talk about books in a second. Oh yeah. So, okay. So the best hub of all that information

is newschoolfinance.com. So we do in-person sessions. So you can click on that. We also have online courses and the links to both the books are there as well. So that's kind of like the hub and all of our, you know, Instagram and all that stuff. Fabulous.

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me. I feel like honestly, this episode is going to be so helpful for so many people because so many people when it comes to this kind of thing. Oh, so anxious. So anxious. So many questions. So much fear.

It's like, what do I do? So this is so helpful. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me. I could talk about this for 10,000 years. All right. That was episode 247 with Shannon Lee Simmons.

Make sure to check out the show notes. JessicaMoorhouse.com slash 247 is where you can find that on my website. But also check out her website, NewSchoolOfFinance.com. I've been getting a lot of requests, well, basically since Sparsh when people are like, oh, geez, I need to figure out my finances. And just in case you want to know, because obviously I do financial counseling one-on-one, but sometimes if it's not a good fit or whatever, I recommend other financial planners and coaches, investment coaches, and people like that. You can find the list of people that I like to send

people to because I think they're great on my website, jessicamorehouse.com recommendations. But I always say like the New School Finance, they're great on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash recommendations. But I always say like the New School Finance, they've got courses and they also do financial planning and they're great because Shannon is the founder. So you can find that out, newschoolfinance.com. And of course, grab copies of her book, Worry-Free Money, Living Debt-Free. Such good reads, especially if you're looking for Canadian personal finance books, which I feel like there's more about. And of course, make sure to check her out on social media.

You can follow her on Instagram at Shannon Lee Simmons. Or sorry, at Shan Lee Simmons. So S-H-A-N Lee Simmons. I'm going to include that in the show notes. And that's the exact same handle for Twitter. So yeah, I have a few more things to share as always. So stick around, just have a few words to share about this podcast episode's sponsor. This episode of the Mo Money Podcast is supported by Jenny Life. Here's a statistic that may shock

you. Not only do men have more life insurance than women, on average, they have twice as much coverage. Jenny Life is striving to shrink that gap. No matter if you're single, a working mom, expectant mom, or your kids are four-legged fur babies, if you have dependents and want to protect them, you need life insurance. And Jenny Life can help you with that. Jenny Life makes it fast and easy for women to feel confident that their families will be taken care of with life insurance that's uniquely built for their needs. For example, did you know that before Jenny Life, if a pregnant woman wanted life insurance, she'd have to use her pregnancy weight on her application, which would lead to higher rates? That's the type of inequality Jenny Life is working to dismantle. With Jenny Life,

you can get your life insurance policy without blood work or unnecessary red tape, and you can do it all online from your own home. And considering the uncertain times we live in, making sure your loved ones are properly protected with life insurance has never been more important. To learn more and to get a free quote right now, visit JennyLife.com slash money. Once again, that's JennyLife.com slash money. Jenny Life is currently only available in the US. several years, really. I love to give away personal finance books because I feel like the best way to feel better about your money is to educate yourself. And one great way to do that is reading personal finance books. And there's so many great personal finance books out there, especially, honestly, compared to when I started first reading personal finance books 10 years ago. Oh my gosh, the crap that I read, I'll tell you what, the crap that I read. So many great books.

So of course, I'm going to be giving away copies of Shannon's book. So I'm going to give away a copy of Worry Free Money and a copy of Living Debt Free. Look at me. I'm so nice. I am so nice. I'm also giving away other copies of books that are on this season of the show. So you can kind of stay in the loop by signing up to my email list, jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe, or just frequently check jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. That link is always in the episode show notes on my website, but just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. It will have a full list of all of the different books I am giving away each season of the show. So check it out. You may win a copy of a book or support the guests that I have on my show. Buy their books, support these authors.

That would be really cool of you. Okay, so I'm doing something that I did a few episodes ago, not last week. I think it was, yeah, it was definitely the first episode with Bobberg to 4D5. So if you remember that episode, I shared some really crazy info. I shared that I was about to take the first exam of the Canadian Securities course. And then I kind of teased, okay, you know, if I pass, then I have the second exam, and then I'll get the certificate. This is, honestly, I've never studied so hard in my life. I am not having a good time, but I'm getting through it. I can't wait to live my life after. Of course, when I pass the second exam, I'm going to continue my education.

And basically, I'm going to be on the route to either, I'm not exactly sure what's happening, but I'm definitely going to take more courses through the Canadian Securities Institute. And I think the first kind of goal is to become a qualified associate financial planner, which is kind of on the path to become a CFP. Why? Because we're still in this weird pandemic world. And I feel like I need to take this opportunity where I can actually stay at home for long periods of time to study. So I might as well do it. I might as well take this time to study until the world kind of opens back up. So that's what I'm gonna do. Also, I love learning. And I want to, of course,

improve my skills and see where this kind of takes me. This is all to say, I know I said a lot of info for and you're like, why do I care? This is all to say next week, I have the second exam. And it worked out well that I shared it with you, put it out into the universe and asked you for some positive vibes. I passed exam number one. Oh, did I pass? By that I mean, I passed and let's not talk about by how much. It doesn't matter. We passed. That's the important part. Exam number two is next week, next Wednesday, actually. So I will be taking exam number two by the time you listen to next week's episode. And I'm terrified. I'm studying my heart out this week on the weekend up until the exam. But you just never know.

I'm almost afraid because I passed the first exam, I got a little confident, a little cocky. And I'm not going to put in as much effort into studying for this exam. So I'm putting this out there right now to keep myself accountable because I'm going to tell you whether I passed or failed in... No, it won't be next week's episode because I'll be taking the actual exam, but the following week. So I'm just putting this out there as a way for me to be like, girl, you need to study because you told everyone you did. So you cannot fail. So, so this is what we're doing. And if I fail, I fail and that's okay. That's okay. But we're not,

we're not, we're going to be kind to each other. It's going to be fine, but we want to pass. We're just going to be honest. We're just going to be transparent and honest. And this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing. Okay, one last thing before I let you go, in case you haven't been to my website in hot second, just want to remind you that over the summer, I created a new page on my site, a shop page, jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. So if you're looking for one of my online courses, my Fix Your Finances courses, which I'm going to have some announcements about soon, or my Investing Foundations for Canadians course. And yes, I am still working on crafting and finishing the DIY passive investing

for Canadians course that I've been talking about for probably 10 million years. It's happening. I just have to get through this Canadian Securities course. So let me breathe. But anyways, my online courses are there. You can find more information at jessicamorales.com slash shop. But also I have all my budget spreadsheets. So I've got, of course, some free spreadsheets, some paid spreadsheets. They're very cheap. So it's basically free. But basically, if you're like a self-employed individual, if you're a couple and you're self-employed, if you're a couple and one person's an employee and self-employed, I have spreadsheets for everybody. Every kind of situation I could possibly think of, I made a spreadsheet for.

And that also includes a full video tutorial library that actually walks you through how to use it. And of course, you can always email me if you have specific questions. Even if I've had people like, hey, is there a way to do this? I can always make a video tutorial about that. So you can check that out on my website. Last but not least, if you're not already following me on Instagram or Twitter, make sure to give your gal a like. I do have an Instagram page for my podcast where I kind of post the new episodes every week. So you're kind of in the loop of like, oh, new

episodes up. I should check it out. That's just at Mo Money Podcast, actually on Twitter and Instagram, same handle at Mo Money Podcast. You can find me on Instagram at Jessica I Morehouse and on Twitter at J-E-S-S-I underscore Morehouse. Yes, I wish it was easier. I wish it was at Jessica Morehouse. It's not. Someone else has it. I must have. I think I had it and I gave it up. And then I had to go with, you know, Jesse underscore Morehouse, but it is what it is. So please follow me. That would be cool. We can connect. You can DM me your questions and we can have a good old time together. Okay. That is it for me. Thank you so much for listening to my ramblings. I will see you back here in the show next week. Send me your

positive vibes so I can pass this exams or this last exam and, you know, be something to celebrate. So, yeah. OK, thanks so much. Talk to you next week. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at women in media dot network.