More Money Podcast - 261 How to Get Back to Business After a Career Pause - Nancy Jensen & Sarah Duenwald, Co-Founders of The Swing Shift & Co-Authors of Back to Business

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

We’ve all heard the statistics. If you’re a woman and you decide to take time off of your career to raise a family, go back to school, or travel the world, it will set you back both professionally and financially. Although it’s not fair, these are the facts. But that shouldn’t scare you from taking that career pause when you need to. And luckily I have two guests on the show to discuss how to get back into the workforce, and not just get back on track but accelerate your career into an even better, more successful one. I’ve got Nancy Jensen and Sarah Duenwald on the show to discuss this topic in-depth. They teamed up to found their company, The Swing Shift, and co-author their new book Back to Business, after working with hundreds of women struggling with this exact thing. Not only that, both Nancy and Sarah experienced this themselves when taking maternity leaves, and that’s what inspired them to come together and create a solution for women so we can see a change in those statistics. For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/261 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Mo Money Podcast. This is episode 261 of the Mo Money Podcast. And I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. So glad to see you. I can't see you, but I'm so glad that you're here because I know you're here. You may not know that I know, but I know. So thank you for joining me for another episode. You're going gonna like this episode another episode where i have two guests um a little bit different than last week where you know last week when i had uh stephanie and jillian from our uh freedom years on the show they were in the same room they were together um it's a little bit easier to coordinate this one i had two guests

different parts of the country so we it was basically three kind of tracks and and and it was interesting actually it actually worked out quite well so it. So it was basically three kind of tracks and it was interesting. Actually, it actually worked out quite well. And it was a great conversation because they bring such different perspectives and have different stories. So I know you're going to love it. Who am I talking about? Let's get to that. I'm sure you're wondering, huh? Okay. So I have Nancy Jensen and Sarah Duenwald on the show. Nancy is the CEO and Sarah is the head of operations and program of The Swing Shift. You can find more information about The Swing Shift at theswingshift.co. Also, that is their Instagram and Twitter handle. You can find them online

at The Swing Shift. But a little information about each of these ladies. We talk a little bit about their backgrounds in the show, but just to give you some perspective, Nancy is obviously now the CEO and co-founder of The Swing Shift, but before that, she built her career establishing new and emerging businesses at International Data Corporation. She opened businesses on both coasts, and at Microsoft, she launched operating systems,

server, and early SaaS products, including SharePoint's market introduction. She served as account director at Sterling Communications, and she's been featured in Forbes, the Huffington Post, at Seattle's infamous F-bomb Breakfast Club, and at the Female Founders Alliance Champion Awards. And Nancy believes that women shouldn't be penalized for taking care of their families, and she's committed to getting women into the workforce on their own terms and is dedicated to 100% pay parity. So love that. And a little bit about Sarah. So Sarah's career over the past 15 years

has focused on revenue growth operations in the technology consulting industry at ADP, where she managed a team of business development representatives. And as a senior manager for a gaming technology consulting company, she has won multiple president's clubs and various awards for revenue achievement and client growth. And after the birth of her second child, Sarah took a brief career pause. And then as fate would have it, met Nancy and they co-founded The Swing Shift to pursue their passion for helping women in career transition. And she heads up operations, programming and partner relationships at The Swing Shift. And she believes it's imperative to change the perception of the modern workplace and works

every day to empower women to take control of their careers. So you're going to love these ladies. You're going to love their book. You're going to love this podcast episode. Before I get to it, just want to share a few words about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Momany podcast is supported by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, CDIC. Have you seen those commercials about CDIC and wondered, who are they? Why do they exist? And why do they advertise? Well, those are some good questions. First, the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, or CDIC, is a federal crown corporation that protects your savings at their member institutions. Basically, this means that you won't lose your money in the unlikely case of a bank failure.

Well, that's reassuring to know, but could a bank in Canada ever actually fail? You may be surprised to know that they can, and they have. Since its creation in 1967, the CDIC has handled over 40 of these failures, but the good news is no one has ever lost a penny of their savings under CDIC protection. Oh, and to answer the third question, CDIC advertises because public awareness has a direct impact on financial stability. In other words, when Canadians know about CDIC, they can make more informed decisions about their money. It's as simple as that. So make sure to visit cdic.ca to see how you're covered. Once again, that's cdic.ca to learn more. Welcome to the Mo Money Podcast, Nancy and Sarah. I'm so pleased to have you both on the show. And honestly, this is the

first time I think I've ever had two guests on at once, which is exciting. Oh, that is exciting. Thanks for having us. Yeah, we're thrilled to be here. Yay. Okay, great. Well, I feel like your book Back to Business is absolutely so timely and I've never had anyone on the show to talk about the specific topic of reentering the workforce. So I know so many people are going to absolutely love your book and love this episode. Before we really get into the topics of the book, which is how to reenter the workforce after being out of it for so long, which is, I think, a worry from women especially. I mean, this is something that I've always kind of worried about too, if ever I wanted to take a mat leave or something like that. So, so, so important and timely. But before we dive in, I want to know what your kind of backgrounds are. How did you both come together to write this book? I'm going to start with you, Nancy. Can you share a little bit about how you kind of came to this juncture of creating this book? product launch. I worked in International Data Corporation for five years, and I opened up

businesses on both coasts. And then I had the opportunity to work at Microsoft, where I worked on, I can't remember if it was 17 or 19 different product launches, but I, you know, was part of the team that did the business development for introduction and then market growth of SharePoint, which, you know, is a billion dollar business. At that point, my, my first child was on her way. And I decided to step back a little bit, I kept my hand in at work. But then when Joe, my second showed up, all the wheels fell off the bus. And my, you know, they there's that kid's song, the wheels on the bus go round and round. They just fell off. And so my original goal was to take a year, a year leave, and it quickly expanded to five. And when it was time for me to go back, I just started interviewing for product management jobs at local companies. And I was really appalled by the perspectives that recruiters and hiring managers had about people who had

taken breaks. And so at that point, I decided I'm going to do something about this because it actually it made me really angry. I thought it's this hard for me and I have this really pristine professional experience. What's it like for everybody else? Turns out it's bad. 45% of American women take breaks and they all face this when it's time for them to come back. So at that point, I met Sarah and we started the swing shift. Amazing. Yeah, that's a lot. 45%. That's a huge number. I don't think I was aware of that. That's crazy. A lot of people don't realize that, that it's almost half the workforce, working women will take a break at some point.

Wow. So tell me a little bit about yourself, Sarah, since you met Nancy and I feel like you probably have maybe a similar kind of experience. Yeah. So they're a little bit different, which is kind of nice because we come at this important topic from kind of different angles. So I was in technology as well, but I was on tech consulting in the games and entertainment industries. And that was pretty, a lot of fun. And I had my first child and I worked full time with her. And then I had my second and I went back for just a few weeks and then realized, you know what, this is not what I wanted to do anymore. I was unsure of what I wanted to do next, but I knew that I didn't want to do, I didn't want to be where I was anymore.

And I'm sure a lot of women can identify with that. They're, you know, not quite sure where they want to be, but they know they don't want to be where they're at. And that's a hard place to be, especially for people that are type A and usually have a plan. And that's exactly how I was. So I felt, I took a year off and I felt pretty lost and I didn't know how to get to that next step. I didn't know how to talk about my skills and what I wanted to do next because I wasn't sure. But what I did know is that I needed to start connecting with people and start networking again. And so I just started telling people, you know, I'm not quite sure what'd come to if they had career questions, negotiation, whatever it may be. And I just kind of started having those conversations and someone connected me to Nancy. And at that same time, you know, she was feeling this frustration and, you know,

had a plan of potentially launching a program to target this demographic. And I was that demographic as well. And so we decided to try it. And we launched a swing shift in 2017. Wow. So I guess from your creating the swing shift, you found that so many people had the exact same kind of experience and they don't know where to go and start. And I feel like from my point of view, talking to a lot of people in my, uh, you know, you know, in their thirties who were thinking of having families or they're starting their early families, a lot of women I know are, who are, you know, before that were really career focused, are actually afraid to even start a family because of the potential, um, that it may have, you know, it may have some negative, uh, effects on their career. I remember back in the day when

Lean In came out, it scared me actually to have a family because I know that probably wasn't the messaging of Lean In, but it scared me because I'm like, it will have a negative effect. And there's so much data out there that shows that women who take breaks, it's harder to get back into the workforce and you do sacrifice potential promotions, bonuses, and career growth. So I kind of want to start there. What would your advice be for someone who is kind of planning to maybe have a family and take some time off as you should if you want to have a family? What should they think about even before it happens? Anything that they can do to kind of maybe preserve their job or just, you know, make the transition a little bit easier

if they eventually, you know, want to take a year off and get back to work. Nancy, I'll start with you. Yep. I think that this is the smartest thing anybody who is considering taking a break, whether it's for maternity leave or other reasons. People leave for lots of reasons, right? For health, for travel. Sarah can talk more in more depth about what's happening right now with millennials, where it's not a career track, it's a career wave where they come and go and come and go. Proactively planning for this, I think it takes two tracks, if you will. First, if you know you're going to be out for a certain amount of time, you want to start socking some money away. And in some ways, it's like saving for a house or saving for a car or saving for whatever it is you want. The reality

is you're not going to be generating an income during that time. And so you want to take a look at what your expenses are going to be. I mean, this is a very block and tackle exercise. What are your expenses? How much do you need to set aside to keep your household running? And I think the other track on this is to go in and to negotiate for as much money as you can right up front. Get paid what you are worth. That's, I think, proactively, those are the two things you can do that are going to set you up for success. Sarah, I think you have an additional perspective on this. Yeah, absolutely. I think

when, regardless of if you think you're going to take a break or not, you should plan for that to potentially happen. So when you are thinking about raising a family and either, or you're pregnant or before you're pregnant, whenever that is start proactively thinking, okay, I am going to start networking, right? Like keep those networks relevant, set the expectation before you leave that you're going to stay in contact with your clients and your colleagues every so often make sure that you keep your LinkedIn. If you don't have one, make sure you have a LinkedIn and get it up to date and, um, you know, a completed profile before you leave, because that is going to be your main tool while you're out on a break. And I would just say that one, don't be ashamed of taking a break. Don't be unapologetic about it. Don't be scared. This is your right. If you're able to do that

and you want to make sure that you're enjoying that time. I made that mistake when I was out for a year, I was too busy looking at all of my colleagues that were getting promotions and stressing out about not working and what was I going to do that I didn't even enjoy it. And that is my biggest regret. Make sure that you're enjoying where you're at. There's a lot going on after you have kids and babies. And one thing that people don't realize is most of the time, it's not your first kid that takes you out of the workforce. It's your second, because that's when your childcare costs start rising. That's when your plate gets a lot more full, where you feel like you can't manage everything. And that's also something to keep in mind as well. Now, if you love your job

and you are like, there's no way I'm leaving, then that's great too, right? But we still say plan. Plan if you can. And just small things will, will make a big difference. So since you mentioned, you know, if you love your job, that's definitely one scenario. It's maybe a little bit easier if you just want to take, you know, a year off, go back to that job, you know, yeah, you missed out on a year, but it's a little bit easier to get back into it. If like in your situation, you take some time off, you go back to your job. And I've seen this so many times that, you know, jobs I've been, people come on mat leave, they stay for a few months, and then they're out of there. And I feel like a lot of that probably has to do with having that

time to actually really reflect on like, do I even like my job? What's that? I guess what's that kind of transition look like when you go back to the workforce? You're like, Oh, my gosh, I don't like my job or even my career. What do I do now? Yes. And Jessica, you're hitting on a point that we, I mean, we have worked with hundreds and hundreds of women and talked with thousands more. And that is a very consistent theme, particularly when women take breaks, it does give them the time to review and reflect on what do I want out of this part of my life? Because you're right, when you're in your 20s and 30s and you're focused on your career, that's what you're focused on. But once these other elements come in, you're starting your own family, your parents are

getting older. Maybe you or someone in your family has some health concerns. There's these added considerations that you need to take into account. And depending on the study that you look at, and certainly from our research, when women take breaks, anywhere between 50 and 60 percent want to do something different when they come back. And it's because of these additional considerations. And so we really believe firmly in saying, review what it is you like and look for things that leverage the skills that you enjoy doing and that you like to do and try to stay away from the things that don't fulfill you as much. And as Sarah says, it's super important to keep those networks up, even in a casual way. Yeah. It's a pretty confusing time when there's lots of hormones happening and lots of things going on. And when you're feeling really unhappy, you also get a little bit more perspective. I think at times after you've had some kids, your priorities shift a little bit

and you've gotten some space to say, what know, what is important to me? And if you find yourself back in that job, that's not fulfilling. If you have the means, you can take time off. If you don't, which many of us don't, then you need to, you know, there's, there's exercises. And actually in our book, we talk a lot about this. There's some worksheets and exercises that you can do to start putting words on paper. You know, what are the things that you've liked about your past jobs? What are the things you disliked? You know, what are your skills? What do people come to you for? What are your strengths? You know, those are the things that you're going to start being able to talk about for transferable skills into something else, right? So you want to start doing some

digging, if you will, while you're currently in that job, if that's possible. I'm curious for, you know, because it's also one struggle when you just take a year or two off, but what if you, you know, were a stay-at-home mom for a good amount of time, like five, 10 years? I think a lot of people who have been away from the workforce for a substantial amount of time are even thinking, like, I don't know if I can even get back in. Is it possible? And how difficult is it to, you know, if you've been away for that long? I mean, just even talking about technology, I watched your book trailer and part of it mentioned like, you know,

you may need to learn some new programs. And oh my gosh, programs for in software has changed so much and even just the past like three years. So how difficult is it to kind of get back in when you've been away for so long? Well, you know, Jessica, as you as you mentioned up front, yeah, the longer you're away, the harder it's going to be. And you need a strategy. I mean, what we find many times is that when women, no matter how long they've been out, whether it's two years, 10, or even more, the first thing they want to talk about is their resume. And, you know, yeah, you need a resume, but what you need is a plan. And what we found at the swing shift, and we talk about in the book, is there seems to be one of four plans of attack. And one is to just

go back to what you did before, both industry or role. Another is to move into something new, because as we said, over half of women who take breaks want to do something different. So they can try a new role in a contract engagement. Sometimes they have to lily pad. And by that, we mean you have to take one job that only uses part of your skill set as a way to get yourself into the next job. That really is the most fulfilling version. And then sometimes if you really want to do a wholesale, you know, 90 degree turn, we do recommend trying a pro bono to paid approach where for a very, very short amount of time, like three to six months max, you work with, say, the membership director of a local industry organization as a way to get to know the people and the industry and the companies and then use that to go get yourself a job. But you need a plan. But it absolutely is possible.

That's what I think if we leave with one thing today is letting everyone know that it absolutely is possible. You can get back to work. There's just some things that it's helpful if you know in advance. And it's really how you, your strategy and then how you talk about yourself. It's important. Yeah, and I feel like that's still a big learning curve

for so many people, even myself. I did it looking back. I mean, now I'm self-employed, so it's a bit different. But when I was an employee, I did all the things wrong, especially in interviews. Definitely always focused on the resume and not so much on my specific skills or what I can uniquely bring to it. I want to kind of talk about the, because you talk about this in the book, your personal brand and how that, I mean,

I feel like that wasn't even a term not too long ago. Now it's an essential. What does that mean in this day and age and why is it so important to help you with that transition getting back to work? Yeah, it is funny. It's definitely become a lot more popular, that term, in the last few years. And some people think of your personal brand as they look at those influencers out there. And that's really not the case at all. Really, what your personal brand is, it shows who you are, what you offer, and what makes you different. And it's important, especially for those in career transition, to have a sense of their personal brand because it's a chaotic, overcrowded job market right now. And you want that to help you stand out. And it's not hard, right?

There's a few steps even to get it started. The first is really, you want to think about who you are as a whole person. And I kind of mentioned this earlier. It may take some initial work to figure out, but start asking your friends, past colleagues, what they admire about you. What can you be counted on for? What are your strengths? All of these are the characteristics that start shaping your brand.

And then next, you want to start being active on social media. You want to determine first what platforms you want to utilize. We always recommend LinkedIn, of course, the professional networking site. And the key there is to engage with people and be consistent. Start connecting with others to build your digital network. It's important to have that, especially now. And then of course, you want to keep in mind who is your audience. I think this is a key piece that people don't think about when they're putting themselves out there on social media is who do they want to attract? Who is it that they're

talking to? Is it recruiters? Is it thought leaders? Is it a specific industry? Is it maybe a customer or client base that they're trying to attract? And then anytime they're posting or sharing information, you keep that audience in mind in order to make sure that it's what they want to see and hear, if that makes sense. Oh, absolutely. I feel like a lot of us, even though social media has been around for a while, I think a lot of us forget, especially if you aren't a quote unquote influencer or anything like that, just a regular person with your social media platforms, that you do have an audience. And I think we forget that sometimes we're posting whatever we want to put out there and we don don't realize, you know, people are watching and seeing and especially recruiters

or old employees, you know, that used to work with co workers, and potential people that could hire you. I know for myself, you know, before I transitioned to have my own full time business, I definitely was more aware of that. I mean, obviously, because I guess I had a blog on the side, but it still was kind of just, you know, a hobby. But I was more aware of that. I mean, obviously, because I guess I had a blog on the side, but it still was kind of just a hobby. But I was more aware of that. So I think that was one thing that I learned was so, so important even now. But yeah, LinkedIn, I feel like is sometimes not given as much importance as it really should be. I knew how important it was. My last job, part of my job was to... I worked at a law firm and I had to train lawyers how to build their personal brands and their LinkedIn profiles.

And I'm like, this is how you get clients or can be recruited to another firm. You know, it's so, so important, but it's not as flashy as say an Instagram, but I feel like that is how you can get a job. And I think, you know, it can be intimidating for many people. You know, like Insta is super fun. Like if you look at my Insta feed, it's full of kids and dogs, right? But when people are looking, when they're looking to you as a prospective candidate, the two things they're going to do is they're going to Google your name and they're going to look in LinkedIn. And so you want to be in command of the story that's being told in those two places.

And, you know, as Sarah said, LinkedIn, number one place to look. And, you know, so I would say that the flip side of this is look at look at how you show up when you Google yourself. Right. And what what comes to the fore? And you want to make sure that that's telling a story about you that you want told. with the internet, but they actually do because the more active and proactive that they are on LinkedIn or another social networking site, the search engines will push that to the top. So those are the ones that most likely these recruiters will click on. So if there's other things that you don't want to show up, the more active you are on other things that you're shaping that narrative, that's what is going to be first on the search engine. So it's important to think about that. And yes, Google yourself every so often,

put a Google alert on, type that in on your name. All of that stuff is part of your brand. Absolutely. And I think one thing people forget too, because you mentioned it's important to be active on social media. I think a lot of people think, does that just mean commenting or liking or sharing? It could also be creating content. And I think a lot of people don't realize that anyone can be a content creator on LinkedIn. You can make a post, you can make a blog post, or you can make a medium account. And there's so many different ways to show that you are, you know, an expert in your field. And that's maybe another thing too is, you know, part of your personal brand is I am an expert in the job that I eventually want to get. And kind of putting yourself in that kind of mindset I find can be helpful, especially when, you know, you talk in your book about confidence and especially in your abilities and your skill set. I want to talk a little bit about that because I know firsthand and also just talking to a ton of women

over these past several years, confidence is a huge issue. I mean, I struggle with it. Everyone does. How can you overcome that feeling, that lack of confidence? Because I'm sure that's natural. The confidence is to decrease

when you've been away from the workforce for so long. The number one thing we recommend here is to prepare and practice. And when we say prepare, when you're looking to go get back into the workforce or to shift into a new role or a new career, you want to spend some time educating yourself about the industry, about the companies you're looking at, about the thought leaders in those companies and industries, about the people that you're going to be talking to. And there is a wealth of information on the internet that is free and readily available to you. Everything from Glassdoor to PayScale to Salary.com to Comparably, LinkedIn Jobs. There's a ton of information out there. And you need to approach it from a research perspective.

The reason that's important is that you become informed. You understand what are the trends, what's hot. And as we see this over and over again, as people do research they say oh i know how to do that i used to call it product planning now i'm a data scientist um and so they see those transferable job titles um the other thing is to um i think when when you're looking to build your confidence here practice you want to practice talking about what it is you did and what it is you're going to do next. And that pitch is going to be super crisp and you want to practice it with your friends, your former peers and co-workers. They know what you can do.

And whether it's a practice informational interview or a full loop, you want to make sure that you're comfortable getting the words out of your mouth. That really does take practice. It took me years to figure that one out. Absolutely. And I think that's something to keep in mind too, is it's not an overnight thing, right? Don't put that pressure on yourself either. You know, our whole book is it builds off of each thing.

And then you start feeling more confident as you're doing some of these worksheets, as you're doing some of these exercises. It's important to give yourself grace, right? It's not going to happen overnight. But Nancy is absolutely right. If you prepare and you practice, I mean, even, you know, one thing that we get a lot is, again, I don't know what I want to do next. So how do I have those conversations? How do I talk about myself? And that's okay too. I mean, we give a template in our book. It's a very simple template that people can adapt, but it's okay. Well, you obviously have questions about different industries or different roles or things that

look really neat that you might be interested in. Those questions are what you should be asking people, finding people in those roles that you like and asking those questions. You know, we don't want people to feel scared and then not do anything, right? It's keep moving forward. And even if you don't know, you start asking those questions, you start talking to more people that is going to narrow your focus down a little bit more. And I feel like if you haven't ever done that, that like the idea of like interviewing people just to kind of, Hey, I just want to learn more about your career or your role is so intimidating. And it is, but I mean, I personally did that. Um, I mean,

this was like seven years ago, but when I, uh, moved cities and, and didn't really have a network in Toronto here, I had from my past job, I used to work in marketing for a newspaper, had a few clients that were based here. I contacted all of them, took them out for coffee, just so I can get a sense of trying to figure out actually what I wanted to do moving forward. I wanted to kind of transition. And at first, I think I came from the wrong perspective. I thought maybe this would lead to a job. Maybe one of these people would offer me a job. Did not lead to a job. But I did learn some very, very important things about what do I actually want to do? And it really actually changed the direction I was going to go into. So it's intimidating, like, you know,

contacting people or an acquaintance or even a cold call, but can really probably change, change everything in a really good way. It is. And I want to, I want to add to what Sarah said. The challenge for many of us is that you have to be vulnerable when you're having these conversations. And that's really hard, especially, you know, you're vulnerable because you've been away. You're vulnerable because you're asking for, as Sarah says, you're asking for grace and you're asking for a favor. But that's all right. And I think that you can go at it from a very low impact way. So, Sarah, I'm going to steal your example here. When you're at your socially distanced neighborhood barbecue, right, or winter, you know, winter carnival, and somebody says, how are you doing?

Instead of going, oh, you know, hanging in there, ready to kill the kids, whatever. You say, you know, I'm thinking about getting back into the job force. And I'd really like to know a little more about what you're doing. That's it. That's it. That's a super easy conversation. And we suggest you go with people that you're familiar with, and that know you and that know what you can do that takes the stakes down. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's still intimidating, but so, so worthwhile. And you never know those people. And this is kind of, I guess how networking works. They may know someone you're like, you know what, you mentioned this and this other person comes to mind and that's how you get connected to maybe someone who will lead to, you know, the right

career transition for yourself. You just never know, but it's, you have, yeah. We have heard this over and over and over and over and over again. It's the social connections that really are going to help you out. And they've got to be genuine, you know? I mean, yeah. And I mean, absolutely. Cold calling and targeting people that you want to talk to. Yeah, that's an approach to most of the time, it, do you have any stories you'd like to share about people who, you know, similar to you, were out of the workforce and to kind of use some of your advice to get back into it? Oh, we have so many. Yeah, I have one actually that happened not too long ago. I was at an event with my kids. It was their school event. And there was a woman that had come through our program, and I didn't know she was affiliated with this organization and we were talking and it was great to see her and we were just catching up and she was still looking

and, um, but she was, you know, really motivated. And there was another woman that had come to talk with us. And again, I didn't know they knew each other, but they knew each other in a past professional life. And this new woman came up and said, so Monica, what are, what have you been up to? And she kind of looked at me like, this is the time that I need to say this, isn't it? And I looked at her and I was like, no pressure. I'm not, you know, like just you do what you want to do. But she said, well, you know, funnily enough, I, I'm getting back in the workforce. I'm, you know, looking to see what I want to do next. And they talked a little bit more and that woman was like, you know what? I know someone that you can talk to. Let me put you in touch. So it's just, it happens when you least expect it.

And it's important though, that it won't happen unless you're prepared. I know for a fact that Monica had practiced that pitch. I know that she was confident in what she was asking. You know, you're not asking for a job, especially not ask for a job, which is great, right? Because that takes the pressure off. But maybe you are asking for, if anyone knows, a contact in the marketing industry or something like that, right? So she had all of that and she practiced and she was able to do it and it worked for her. So there's tons of those stories.

There's so many. Yeah. You know, there's a gal that I'm thinking of. She came through our program, I don't know, a couple of years ago. And she had been working, you know, for a family-based business for a very long time. And there's a lot of discounting of that sometimes in the professional workforce, but she really wanted to go get back. She ended up at a real estate co-working space. And it didn't use all of her skills, but it used enough of her skills. And she said, you know, it wasn't my dream job, but it was great to get back to work and to get paid.

And she did a fabulous job negotiating for herself. Well, during the pandemic, of course, everything real estate focused has been affected. The co-working space she worked for shut down. She was then approached by a local online real estate company who said, hey, we're really interested in the work that you did at that co-working space, despite the fact that it closed. And we'd like you to come in and talk to us. Long story short, she started this week as like West Coast director for this very large company. And it was because she took a leap of faith and said, I'm going to use some, not all of my skills. And I'm going to tell people, this is what I want to do next. Wow. That's exciting. That's so exciting. And we're so proud of her. We get these emails a lot, actually. And it's just so heartwarming

and amazing that they're taking control of their careers. And it's exciting, especially during this time. Especially during this time. I think, yeah, I think a lot of people think that, oh, there's no point in even bothering right now. But no, people are getting jobs. People are buying houses. Things are still happening on a different level, but this shouldn't be an excuse you use to not try. Actually, this is a good excuse to buy your book and take the time to read it because

we all have a little bit more time at home, don't we? One would think. One would think. Yeah, that's true. That really depends, isn't it? Thank you so much for joining me on this show. Before I let you go, I want, you know, I'm sure people will have questions for you, want to start following you.

Nancy, I'll start with you. Where can people find more information about you and follow you? If you want to know more about the book, go to backtobusinessbook.com and you can see us in the flesh. There's a lot of little videos. Then if you want to know more about our company, theswingshift.co. And you can also follow us on social, on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn at theswingshiftco. Amazing. Perfect. Yeah, I think this is great timing. You know, it's the new year and this is a great time to start thinking about your next chapter or,

you know, reentering the workforce. Even during a pandemic. There's no excuses. You have lots of stories to kind of prove otherwise. So thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. It was a pleasure having you both here to talk about this. Jessica, thank you so much. Thank you, Jessica. And that was episode 261 with Nancy Jensen and Sarah Duenwald of The Swing Shift Co. Make sure to grab a copy of their book, Back to Business. I should have mentioned this at the beginning of the episode, but I'm mentioning it now. Of course, I'm going to do another book giveaway. I always do book giveaways. If someone's on my show and they have a book, I'm going to do another book giveaway. I always do book giveaways. If someone's on my show and they have a book, I'm going to give it away because I want more people to read.

And also, hopefully, I kind of always love the idea that someone who wins my book or is inspired to buy the book will read the book, get inspired, and then hand it to someone else. And then it'll continue throughout the world. People will just learn and get inspired. And that's my dream. That's what I assume happens when someone gets a book that is featured on this show. I'm not sure if that actually happens, but let's just pretend that's what happens. As I mentioned, you can find more information about The Swing Shift at theswingshift.co. Follow them on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at The Swing Shift. And of course, Sarah and Nancy are on LinkedIn too. So you can check them out and connect if you so wish. Oh yeah, more information about their book is at backtobusiness.com. And also, if you purchase

the book, it gets you 40% off their accompanying e-course. So there you go. A little deal for you, 40 percent off. Why not? And lastly, they have a thing called free hangout habit sessions, which is focused on women in career transition. So you can hear from an array of incredible women speakers at various companies and industries who provide their insight to help navigate your next career move. You can find more information about this at the swing shift dotco slash hangouts. Very cool. Of course, I've got some very, very, very important things to share. So do not go away. Just a few words I want to share about this episode's wonderful podcast sponsor. This episode of the Momany podcast is supported by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, CDIC. Did you know that CDIC protects up to $100,000 per category per member institution?

Let's break that down, shall we? First, if you hold savings in cash, GICs, or other term deposits, or even foreign currency at a CDIC member institution, those deposits would be protected up to $100,000. And if you have joint deposits with someone else, those deposits would also be covered up to the $100,000. Same goes for deposits in your RRSP, TFSA, RRIF, and trust accounts. Each would be protected separately up to $100,000, and that is at the same institution. Now, if you bank with more than one CDIC member institution, the situation repeats itself. So if you've had $300,000 spread evenly across three different banks or categories, your entire $300,000 would be protected. See what I did there? It's important to know this so you

can maximize your deposit insurance coverage. To learn all the ins and outs of how CDIC works so you can feel confident about the safety of your savings, make sure to visit cdic.ca. Once again, that's cdic.ca to learn more. First, just as a reminder, if you want any information about this episode, I'm going to include links, all the things that I mentioned, and maybe you're driving or you're busy and you're like, what is that? Just go to the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 261. The show notes will always be at jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever the number of the episode is. Or if you can't remember the number of the episode, you can just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast and you can find all the episodes there. That's where they're all at. A couple of things I want to let you know about.

So many things, so many things. Okay. First and foremost, I've been getting a lot of emails and DMs and messages from people asking for, where are your resources? Or you mentioned some spreadsheets. Where are those? I have a ton, a ton of budget spreadsheets. So no matter pretty much what your financial situation is, if you're single and you're situation is, if you're single and you're an employee, if you're a couple and one of you is self-employed and the other person's an employee, if you're a couple and both self-employed, if you're, I mean, I can go on and on like this. I think there's about seven spreadsheets I've created for different scenarios. They're all on

my shop page. So go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. And it doesn't just, uh, so some of them are free, some of them aren't, but, um, they all come with access to a free video tutorial library. Cause I, as you may imagine, get a ton of emails being like, how do you do this? How do you do this? Well, I'm pretty, I've stopped kind of getting lost to those emails. And I think it's because I've made enough videos that will answer all of your questions. If you want to learn how to, you know, copy this or make a new column or anything, it's in the video tutorial library. So it's almost really, really, it's kind of like a free or additional kind of free e-course if you so wish. I'm talking about e-courses, my investing course. I hope to have some exciting news for you very, very soon. But of course, I am going to let people

know on my email list and of course, social media first. So make sure to get on my email at jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe. And follow me on Instagram at Jessica I Morehouse. You can also follow the podcast at Mo Money Podcast on Instagram and Twitter. It's the same handle. Yeah. Oh, also just in case, just in case you're wondering, hey, whatever happened to that Facebook group? I'm pretty sure I've taken down all the links for it, but possibly not. I'm actually certain there's some links about the Facebook group on my website still. So if you don't remember some of the last episodes I did in December, I shared that I was shutting it down, but not actually

shutting it down. I was just leaving it and I was handing it off to Alyssa Davies, who is the blogger behind Mixed Up Money. So she is now running it and I left it. So I actually have no idea what it looks like, who's in there, maybe it has a new name. I don't know. I don't know. I left because it's just like, I'm not going to like be creepy and just like stalk and be in there and stalking it. You know what I mean? Like the idea was for me to move away so I can do some new things. Cause I'm going to be opening up new Facebook groups exclusively for students in my upcoming courses. So with that said, if you want to join that group, which it was supposed to, you know, it's supposed to be kind of the same people, same vibe, same situation. Well, I don't really know what the name is. Probably should have Googled it. I would

suggest just following, go to Melissa's website, Mixed Up Money, or follow her on Instagram, Mixed Up Money. She has a great Instagram, FYI. And I'm sure she'll have more information about that. So that's what I have to say about that in case you're wondering whatever happened with that. That's what happened. Oh, right. The like, I was just like, what else do I have to say? I'm like, Oh yeah, I talked about a contest and I didn't give you any information about it. Um, so my book giveaway pretty much will always be at the same link, jessicamorehouse.com slash contests. So if you want to enter to win a chance to win this book, Back to Business, I will have it on there, jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. And as more people are on the show

with books, I will add them to the contest. Again, I always share this in my bi-weekly newsletter. So that's that. But you can just maybe save that on your browser, like bookmark it and then check it once in a while, enter the contest and that'll save you some time. Yeah, I feel like that's all I've got. Like I don't have any, like I'm going to be really excited to share when my investing course is ready. It's just not ready quite yet. And I'm going to let you know when it is and it'll be super, super exciting. But until then, sit tight.

It's going to be awesome. It's going to be worth the wait. And yeah, that's it. Thank you so much for listening. I will be back here next Wednesday with another episode. Have an amazing rest of your week. See you later. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.