More Money Podcast - 263 Navigating Tough Money Conversations - Erin Lowry, Author of Broke Millennial Talks Money

Episode Date: February 3, 2021

What a treat of an episode I have for you! Back for a 3rd time on the podcast, and to celebrate the final installment of her Broke Millennial series, I have Erin Lowry back on the show. Her new book,��Broke Millennial Talks Money, is available now and that’s what we get talking about in this episode. How to navigate touch money decisions, be it with your friends, partner, or parents. What are the scripts we should use and what are some tips to make those conversations even a little bit less awkward? I can’t believe it’s been almost two years since Erin was in Toronto to do a live event with me to celebrate her 2nd book, Broke Millennial Takes on Investing. What a fun event that was, and boy do I look forward to being able to do events again (maybe I can get her back to Toronto!). I can’t wait to see what Erin has in store next now that her book series is done. So I guess we all have to stay tuned! For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/263 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Momenting Podcast. This is episode 263, and I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. I've got a guest on, and I'm so excited. She's been on the show actually three other times, technically. She's been on the show for sure twice, and then there was a live recording of an event we did back in the before times in 2019. Of course, I'm talking about Erin Lowry, author of the Broke Millennial series. So in case you don't know, she has a bunch of books called, well, the first one is called Broke Millennial. The second book, which came out in 2019, is called Broke Millennial Takes on Investing. And she has a third book that just came out called

Broke Millennial Talks Money, Script Stories, and Advice to Navigate Awkward Financial Conversations. And I'm so excited to have her back on the show. I mean, we just have a good time. We just have a good time. And I really, really think her book is such a great book to come out right now because especially with everything that's happened in 2020, I feel like this really is so many people are having awkward money conversations or, or realizing they need to

have that with their partner, their friends, their family, their parents. Um, and so, you know, there's not a lot of resources quite honestly about how to actually go about this. How do we actually talk about money with, in our lives? And it is always going to be awkward. So how do we kind of make it less awkward or how do we even know where to start? Because conversation, communication, super key when it comes to proper money management or just making sure that there isn't tension in whatever relationship that you're in. So we talk all about that. I know you're going to love this episode. Of course, I'm going to give away a copy of her book as well. So make sure to stick around to the end of this episode. I also

have some very, very, very juicy information about my investing course. So you got to stick around until the end to find more information about that. But before I get to this episode with Erin, just a few words I want to share about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the MoMoney podcast is supported by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, CDIC. Have you seen those commercials about CDIC and wondered, who are they? Why do they exist? And why do they advertise? Well, those are some good questions. First, the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, or CDIC, is a federal crown corporation that protects your savings at their member institutions. Basically, this means that you won't lose your money in the unlikely

case of a bank failure. Well, that's reassuring to know, but could a bank in Canada ever actually fail? You may be surprised to know that they can, and they have. Since its creation in 1967, the CDIC has handled over 40 of these failures, but the good news is no one has ever lost a penny of their savings under CDIC protection. Oh, and to answer the third question, CDIC advertises because public awareness has a direct impact on financial stability. In other words, when Canadians question, CDIC advertises because public awareness has a direct impact on financial stability. In other words, when Canadians know about CDIC, they can make more informed decisions about their money. It's as simple as that. So make sure to visit cdic.ca to see how you're covered. Once again, that's cdic.ca to learn more.

Welcome back to the Momenty Podcast, Erin. I'm so excited to have you back on the show for book number three. I'm taking you back to some nice memories of book number two was when you were in Toronto in the before times. We had this amazing event. That wasn't the last event I ever did, but that was the last really big event because there was over 100 people at that place. That that was so special. And now it seems like a faraway memory. It was so lovely. I am in the middle of purging my office for a move. And actually yesterday, and I meant to text you, I found pictures from the photo booth in my memories box in my office that are coming to my next location.

I was like, RIP in-person events. RIP. Right? I mean, it's so crazy that, yeah, the last event I did was in the fall of 2019. And now I don't know if I'll do one in... I definitely didn't do one in 2020. But 2021, I don't know. I think that's even too soon. When I see people online talking about going to events, I'm like, I'm sorry, are we in the same world right now? Like, where are you going? I'm not going nowhere. That's crazy. Where are places allowing events to happen? I've found some things. I did like a deep dive one day when I had too much time on my hands and really should have just done some work. But there's some online financial independence conference thing. And I was looking at the dates. I'm like, I'm sorry, these are in 2021? I don't think so.

And it's like, we're going to have social distance this and that. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, that just seems crazy to me. There's no way that's happening. I mean, I also feel that way about weddings, which could be a natural segue into talking about Broke Millennial Talks Money. But we have a few weddings that were rolled over from 2020 that got booked for fairly early 2021. Oh, yeah. We're invited to one too. Yeah, I don't think so, bro. And it's in the US. So I'm like, yeah, no. Yeah, no, thank you. I mean, I am in America. This one's in Florida. And I'm like, ah, no. Yeah, right. No, I don't have a death wish here. No, we're

taking things slow and we're going to be safe. But anyways, I feel like I haven't even mentioned the name of your book. It is the third installment of your series, Broke Millennial. Broke Millennial Talks Money. Is this your final, I mean, final for now, I suppose. I'm sure you get that question all the time, but I'm sure, I just feel like you'll, there's going to be more. There's got to be more. It's a great series and I can't wait to see more, but this is the final for the moment. It is the final for the moment. It is the fulfillment of my current contractual obligation to write broke millennial books, if you will. Right now I am in kind of a fun no man's land. I just personally don't know what's next.

So those of you who are familiar with my work, each book really follows my own journey in addition to interviewing a bunch of experts. So first is you're getting it together and then you're investing and now you're learning to talk about money. And I am not yet at the point of any of the kind of cliche next steps

like Broke Millennial buys a house. Broke Millennial has a baby. I'm personally not there. Ooh, those are great ideas, though. I like those books. There could definitely be a Broke Millennial deals with the aftermath of the pandemic or something.

I feel like a book about once we're not in it, kind of reflecting. Because I feel like there's so many things similar to what's going on now than the Great Recession. And I always wish there was a book kind of about how to navigate this very well. There was no rules, but I don't know. This is an idea. You know what? In March, I pitched Broken One Yule Handles a Recession to my publisher. I like it. And they passed. Well, maybe someone else will want it. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, give me a call if you're a publisher and you're interested. Here we go. But for this

book, Broke Millennial Talks Money, I feel like we were chatting about, well, I think you're writing this book when we last hung out in Toronto. And I feel like originally it was about just relationships, but this is kind of more than that. It's a little bit broader. It's about just everyone. Cause you know what, this is such such an important thing and I get asked all the time is, how do I talk about money to my family, my friends, my partner, anybody? And sometimes I think I take it for granted that I talk about it so openly, but I have for almost a decade and it wasn't always super easy. But then the more you do it, the easier it gets. So what inspired you to start there? What inspired you to write a book about this topic?

Well, first, to the point that you just made, I'm obviously in a similar situation. And I think what's really funny is people ask, well, how do you start money conversations with people in your life? I'm like, well, I get to be the fun exception for the rule because everybody knows that this is my job. So it's not weird if I'm like, hey, let's bring up this financial topic. Yeah, you're like, why is this girl always talking money? Yeah, you're like, no, this is this is, you know, Erin. And that's what she does. This is my thing. I actually dedicated this book to everyone who is engaged in an awkward money conversation with me because I have so many memories of people whose names, frankly, I don't even remember at bachelorette parties and on airplanes that have just gotten in it with me

with really awkward, uncomfortable, but I'm just sitting there soaking up like, oh, tell me more. And why is it that you say you hate rich people? I'm curious, what is the root of this feeling? Let's dig into that. I am that person 100%. But truly what motivated me to write it, I started to notice a trend, first of all, when getting interviewed about money topics. Maybe about three years ago, there was definitely a shift that started to happen where obviously, I still get the like, how do you build a budget? Why should you invest type of questions? But there started to be a lot of questions around, hey, this awkward interaction happened where like, hey, I went over to my friend's house and she then Venmo'd me later to split the cost of dinner and a bottle

of wine when she invited me over for dinner. And she didn't even ask me about it. Like, what's up with that? What is up with that? People do weird things now. Wow. There's new things. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. The conversations we're having are actually very different than the ones that we even had five, 10 years ago because of technology. Technology and also social media. Like talk about the ultimate way to showboat. are actually very different than the ones that we even had five, 10 years ago because of technology. Technology and also social media. Talk about the ultimate way to showboat. And we talk often about millennials are into experiences and we don't buy material goods and that our parents' generation, it was the cars and the watches and the houses. And you watch older movies and TV shows where people go on their vacation and then do a slideshow for their friends of their photos.

But now every day is a slideshow of your life that you are putting out there of the restaurants you went to, the places you traveled to, you know, in a non-pandemic reality that we're able to be constantly flaunting. And yes, do we all cognitively recognize that social media is just a curated version of someone else's life? Duh. Does that actually matter when we're doom scrolling through things and being like, I can't believe they can afford this? How can they do this? All of this to say, for so many of us, myself included at different times, being able to set boundaries is so critical when it comes to your own money, because you can build that foundation, you start investing and growing your wealth, you construct your financial house, whatever you want to call it. But then there's all these outside factors, your friends, your family, your co workers, all of this peer pressure and

social obligation and cultural implications. And you slowly start to erode away at the foundation that you've built if you can't learn how to communicate about money and set healthy boundaries. And that's why I wanted to write this book, because I think that's really the big, big, big pain point for most of us is communicating about it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You said that so well. I think a lot of people focus on the how-to. I just need to implement this and then I'll be good. It's like, I even struggle. Most money experts I know struggle with finances because we're human and because, I mean, I thought it would almost get better because we're in a pandemic. And I'm like, oh, people are going to be spending less. They're

going to be showboating less. No, they're showboating more. Somehow people are spending a ton of money on stuff, even just from self-isolating at home. And then you get those thoughts of like, oh, how can they afford that? Or why can't I afford that? Or should I be buying more stuff? And that can really throw you off your plan that you read your first two books, you made a plan for your budget and your investments, and then it can easily kind of be taken away if you just don't kind of check yourself and have boundaries, like you said. It's true. And even those of us who professionally work in this arena, no one likes getting judged. At the end of the day, that's what this is coming down to, is that to have these conversations, to set these boundaries,

you're at the risk of judgment, of people thinking that you're being cheap or you're being frugal or you don't have a lot of money or you don't earn a lot of money. There's all sorts of different judgments that are wrapped up in, hey, I really am glad that you invited me to XYZ, but right now that's not in my budget. I'm trying to focus on ABC you know, ABC over here. A lot of different scripts and ways you can word it. I get into it in the book. We can get into it in this conversation, but no one likes to be judged. And that at the end of the day is what makes so many of these conversations uncomfortable. And also I think the big thing too is, especially when it comes to judgment, it's like we tie ourself, the worth and our identity to how much we're earning and how

much we're spending and how much money we have in the bank. And I also feel too like now that I'm in my thirties, having those conversations about, uh, I don't want to spend my money that way or I can't afford that or whatever. I, that was so much easier in my twenties. Cause if we were all broke, my friends broke, it was a bit easier. Now it is different because there is, I think, a little bit more judgment being like, you should be further ahead or you should be spending more money because you're in your 30s and don because you have to be careful how you approach it, right? That you are totally within your right to want to save, invest, or spend your money, however you want, as is your friend. Neither of you are wrong, but let's say you both are in the same amount and you're taking a trip together. One of you wants to fly first. One of you wants to save the money and fly coach. It's perfectly acceptable if the person that values first class

wants to fly first class because that's something that they value. And it's also perfectly acceptable if the person who wants to fly coach is like, I'm just going to pack a sandwich and a Zeke will knock myself out and I'll see on the other side of this. Both of those are fine, but each one thinks the other is in some way wrong. But to say it that way, to be like, I don't want to spend that money because I don't value it, then you're passing judgment on what your friend values and that can cause a lot of tension. So it also has to be, you have to be very careful and tactful about how you approach those types of conversations so it doesn't come off as a judgment of what they value because they are

entitled to value things completely differently than you do. I think that's like an important life lesson to something that I, I mean, when I look back to me in my twenties, I was very judgmental. And I think that was because I was so like focused on what I was doing. And so anyone that was doing something different, I just like couldn't understand because I'm like, Oh, because I thought I learned the secret to, you know, how to manage your money the right way. You know, I really would just like, all my energy was reading blogs and books and learning about this stuff. And so yeah, totally judgmental, not outwardly, I wouldn't tell you, but I was thinking it. But you know, as I've gotten older, and also like, I think the fact that, you know, my audience is different. I work with clients one-on-one, I'm a lot more educated. I realize,

and also being married to someone who is a lot more open and just conscientious, who's less judgy, I've learned it's like different people have different needs and it's okay. Whatever's good for you, it actually has nothing to do with someone else. But I think that's also part of human behavior is we just automatically assume what with someone else. But I think that's also like part of like human behaviors. We just automatically assume what we're doing. If we think it's right, then we think it's right for everybody. But it's not. And that's okay.

And we need to be okay with that. That's very true. And also acknowledging how different our life paths can end up being in the sense of, and I'm just going to throw out traditional life milestones because it's the low hanging fruit in this conversation, but you're in a very different place. You start out in your twenties, you're both, let's say like broke living in the same city. Even if you take similar trajectories in terms of your career and are earning similar salaries, if one of you is single and has all this discretionary income and the other one got married, bought a home and had a

kid, even if you're earning the same amount of money, you don't have the same amount of money to play with. So even going out to dinner can become a, now I have to hire a babysitter, and it's also the cost of the dinner. And this is time away from this family unit I've created. And do I see value in this particular dinner compared to that? So you are now battling all of these different both value sets, both financial and emotional. And it's easy to see how resentment can start to build. Whereas, hey, our friendship dynamic was like this, and now it has shifted. And maybe we haven't addressed how it has shifted, and we need to. Or in the kind of cliche, one of us is a public school teacher, one of us is an investment banker,

we're in very different realms financially, and we're just not talking about it. And we're just sweeping it under the rug. That can also lead to a lot of resentment and frustration on both sides. Yeah. So is the solution, because I'll be very transparent. I binge watched all four seasons of Insecure and such a good show, watched it in two weeks. That's, that's way too much episodes, but I have it fresh in my mind. And it was interesting, just the, the kind of relationship between Issa and her friend, Molly, they are very different pay scales. Like one doesn't earn that much. She worked for a nonprofit. One is a lawyer. And there's so many money issues that they don't address. And then I feel like part of that kind of builds up into why they have some conflict later

on in their friendship. And I'm like, this is so common. In your friendship, you may grow up together and be lifelong, you know, good old friends and then kind of go on different paths. Is it actually possible to maintain a friendship when you aren't? Is it really just about like having those conversations and being open or does it make more sense to be in a friend group or have friends that are more similar to you in terms of like how you spend, your spending values, how much you earn? Both answers are right, which is the strange part. It is hard to maintain relationships when you go into different social circles. And that can be socioeconomically. That can also be parents tend to look around at parties and see other parents and not child-free people. Single people tend to be friendlier with other single people compared to married people with married people or people in long-term

committed relationships. As lifestyle changes, we tend to self-segregate in that way. Is it right? I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it tends to be human behavior what happens. So to put yourself into a completely different socioeconomic group than a friend means that there either needs to be a lot of conversation and understanding, or you're just going to start to drift apart. Now, is every friend going to be a lifelong friend? No. But just because you also move into a different direction doesn't mean that you should ditch all of the friends that you had before either. You just have to be willing to put in the work to maintain the relationship. Now it's going to shake out a few different ways

because it also depends on who people are as individuals and as personality types. Are you legitimately happy and excited for your friends that they have created this career path that's led to a lot of financial success? Or are you battling with some psychology of envy, which is a very real, rational, and understanding thing to feel? Are you able to say to your friend, hey, I get that you like to go to $150 per person omakase sushi, but girl, that's not in my budget. Are you comfortable saying that? On the flip side, if your friend says, hey, I just got some amazing professional news. I want to take you out. We're going to my restaurant and I'm going to pay. Are you comfortable with that? And also, what does that say? Because that's the other thing. It's like,

I have friends that earn more, friends that earn less than me. And it's about not being judgmental, but also putting yourself in there. She used to be like, would this be offensive? I think a lot of people assume that if they earn more, oh, I'll just pay for them and they'll be thankful that I do that. Actually, it can be kind of offensive because really what it's saying is like, I know you don't earn that much money. I earn more than you, so I'm going to take care of you. And that's a whole other thing. So you have to navigate that as well. And not only are you sending the message of, I know I earn more, you're also sending the

message of, I don't think you handle your money well, so I'm just going to pick up the tab. Now, in the example that I just gave, I do think that if you want to control a situation, and that sounds dramatic, but if you want to celebrate something because you have exciting news or it's a birthday or what have you, and you want to go to the place that you want to go to and you don't want to have to compromise and you don't want to have to be beholden to a variety of budgets, then just pay for it and explain it that way. Hey, I want to go here. I don't even want to have a conversation about where we're going. And because of that, I'm just going to pick up the tab on this one. We can go back to

the way we handle things normally afterwards. But this is an exciting thing for me. I want to do it this way. That is a fair and reasonable ask of your friend. But also, if you're the person who doesn't make as much, don't let your friend keep picking up the tab, even if that's the situation that's been established, because they might start to feel a little resentful and they might start to feel like, are we friends because we're friends? Or are we friends because you know you get to go to these nice places with me because I always pick up the tab. And then you can start to see the resentment breed on both sides. I mean, real talk too. I think it's funny to tie it back to people's love languages as well. I am a gift giver, 100% my love language. I cannot tell you the joy that it brings me to find the perfect gift for people. And sometimes that also extends to like wanting

to pick up the tab. So my younger sister Got to a point where anytime I would go to visit her or she would come to visit me coffees lunches I was always trying to pick up the tab I'm, also older. I was a bit further along in my career at that point and it's my love language and eventually she just goes you know, I can afford my own coffee, right and I Truly had never intended it to be like I don't think you can afford a own coffee. Right. And I truly had never intended it to be like, I don't think you can afford a cup of coffee. I just thought like, you know, this is how I express some of my love is I want to show you that I I'm caring for you in this way. And I didn't know that there was this

underlying resentment brewing about like, this doesn't think that I can afford my own lunch. Yeah, no, I do. I tend to do that with my younger sister too whenever I visit Vancouver. And I think that's part of me being like the older sister. And my older sister did that to me and I do that to my younger sister. And I'm like, oh no, it's okay.

I'm visiting and you're the younger sister. You know, I'll take it. And yeah, it's like sometimes I have to let her pay and just, you know, let her do it. It's hard though. Yeah. I'm curious because we talked a lot about friendships, relationships, and I feel like this might be a little bit more

common is in a relationship too. Like sometimes you start your relationship young, maybe you have kind of equal incomes as you get older, there's always a little bit of a shift. And I feel like I see, like usually when I see conflict in a relationship, and it has to do with money, usually it's because one person owns or earns more than the other person. It just seems really complicated. And it seems like, yeah, the only solution is to really talk it out. But when should you start having those conversations? Like, I feel like it's like for me and my husband, for example, we earned pretty much the same, or maybe he earned a little bit more when we were first dating.

Now I earn more. And that's just because we have totally different careers than when we first started out. And we, you know, constantly talk about it. But yeah, it's still like a thing that we're working on. Like I, again, I'm like, oh, I got you this gift. He's like, you know, I could buy my own stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I know. And it's sometimes, yeah, always having to kind of figure out how best to deal with things so there isn't resentment. Any suggestions? We tend to go down this rabbit hole in very heteronormative gender role conversations.

The whole idea of if the woman earns more, he's going to cheat and you're going to get divorced. Like that's usually the cycle that gets referred to. First of all, I mean, no, that's not a guarantee that that's going to happen. Obviously, there's also a lot of different studies where it depends on types of jobs people work. And frankly, I just kind of want to like push all of that rhetoric out the door for the start of this conversation.

Instead, there are a few different things I share in the book that I have for our entire relationship earned more. My husband is a public school teacher, notoriously low paying position. Even by national standards, though, he makes good money by national standards because we live in New York City. But if you say, I'm a public school teacher, people generally are like, decent benefits, bad pay. That's sort of the automatic response in America. So for me, I, during the pandemic in 2020, my first two quarters were not great because speaking gigs dried up, all sorts of things dried up, big revenue streams for me. And I started to have this feeling of, I might be usurped as the primary earner this year. I might not earn more. I have a lot of feelings about this. I'm having to process these feelings because so much of my identity, to a damaging degree, is tied up in my identity as an earner, as somebody who provides. I always kind of think about it as he provides a lot of the stability

and I provide a lot of more of the lifestyle luxuries when you think about our finances. And the idea of reversing who earned more in that scenario really threw me for a loop that I'm the woman, he's the man, had nothing to do with traditional gender roles and had everything to do more with the baseline script that a lot of things were established on. And because so much of to my own detriment in my mental health, my idea as an earner is tied up in that feedback loop. And I was very honest with like we talked about it. I was very honest about my feelings about that. And I said, this is nothing about you and just everything to do with how I personally feel in this damaging identity crisis that I have about being an earner. So one, trying to identify why the person feels that way about being an earner. Now, sometimes you can get into, and unfortunately society does get into the whole emasculating if your woman earns more rhetoric. If that becomes a

conversation, I think part of that is self-reflection on both parties about why you feel that way. And also talking about if you're in a relationship, in a committed relationship where you're managing money together, are we managing money in a way that feels fair to both parties, where the party who earns more is not in control as a byproduct of earning more? I feel very strongly that just because you have a bigger, you know, an extra comma or a bigger paycheck does not earn you the right to call all the shots in your relationship about how money is handled. The two of you need to be setting goals together and those goals dictate how money is handled. That's so important because I feel like, yeah, traditionally it was, you know, the woman would stay home, raise the kids, the

man would go to work. And that was like, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. But like traditionally there was the power dynamic. The man called the shots because he earned the money. What are you going to do about it? You don't earn any money. Now I think there's a big shift because sometimes it's the man who's staying home, raising the kids, the woman's going to work, but also it's like, it's 2021. And it's like, we need to talk more about these things, the power dynamics that are, that naturally kind of arise. And for me, the, the, the best thing that I think, uh, we did in our marriage was basically, you know, I kind of forced it, but like, we need to have a monthly money meeting so we can lay it out on the table and have these conversations.

So it doesn't feel like, even though I'm kind of like, usually the person like, Hey, remember, we got to do the meeting. I always make sure to not be like, this is what we're doing. It's like I can't be just calling the shots because that is when there's some resentment that comes to play. And that's not good. And also one person is allowed to be the chief financial officer of the relationship in terms of handling more of the logistics. So actually doing the investments, actually paying the bills, actually balancing the checkbook, to use very outdated terminology. But it's okay if one person is the primary lead point on that, but that doesn't mean that you get to unilaterally make choices for how things are happening in the relationship. Now, on the flip side,

if one person is the CFO, the other person better know all the information where everything is stored so they can assume that role if something were to happen. Because the number of times, and unfortunately it happens more to women than to men, but the number of times that something happens, so whether that is incapacitated for a short period of time or death, where the CFO cannot function in that role. And the other person doesn't know how to pay the mortgage, how to pay the utility bills. You know, I remember that being a subplot on a Real Housewives episode, one of the women got divorced and didn't know you had to pay a water bill. And it was kind of like funny, ha ha, how do you not know you have to pay a water bill, but also like, yikes, that's a problem.

You need to know both that that's something you pay, but then also how to do it just in case something were to ever happen. You need to be able to step into those shoes and fill that role so that that's not yet another stress factor in a time of potential grief. But then also I think to like really talking about that and setting that system up kind of levels the playing field. Cause you're like, if you're like, yay, I know I've been kind of the money manager making sure all the bills are paid. Can I take a break because I'm really busy or I'm stressed out or whatever? Do you want to take the reins? They can easily take the reins.

And usually I recommend that to couples who maybe it was one person always doing it for a while and that is a big source of conflict. It's like maybe let the other person do it for a while So they also get the feel and they know what to do. And then that also maybe ease some stress on your part. And maybe that'll be kind of the solution you're looking for. But yeah, so, so important. I mean, for me and my husband, we use one password. And so we know all the passwords. I never want to be in a situation where someone dies. And it's like, oh, how do we get into their accounts? Absolutely. I mean, that is also with your parents. Make sure you know how to get access to things. But that is truly the level of stress and pain that causes in an already grieving, painful situation is really terrible. And it's something that can

very simply be offset with one change of behavior right now. So because that's a natural segue to talking about parents. Oh my gosh. And I feel like too, as I get older and same with my husband, we're looking at parents in a different way before. It's like we still kind of felt like kids now, like, oh my gosh, like I am thinking about their approaching retirement. Josh's parents are retired. It's a very different dynamic. And some of the conversations we've had lately, mainly with his parents because they are already retired, have shifted. It's not easy. It is not easy being like, hey, just making sure you've got your stuff all organized. And if you suddenly pass away, we'll know what to do. It's not easy because most people, I think also in

older generations, are like, we can't talk about money that's inappropriate know what to do. It's not easy because most people, I think also in older generations are like, we can't talk about money that's inappropriate or what have you. What the hell do you do? Yeah. It's none of your business line does tend to get thrown out a time or two. So a few different ways to approach it. First, with them already being retired, you're sort of a step ahead of where some people are in the game, where some people are in the situation of, can you even afford to retire? And then the question becomes, if they can't, what do you as the adult child do to prepare for that as a reality to your own financial life? A lot of parents, you know, and it's interesting, culturally for some kids, it's like, duh, I'm going to take care of my parents. And for other people, the parents are like, no, no, I won't be a burden to you.

And even if that's their sentiment, you're not going to let your parents just be adrift and fail. Like you're going to support them, especially if they've sacrificed a lot for you. So one of the, one of my favorite ways to try to sneak into this conversation with parents is the old ask for advice routine, because we know parents love to give advice. And then you use their answers as context clues to what you're seeking. Now, obviously, this only works if it's not known that like, hey, I'm a money nerd, and we know that you're not. And so I'm asking you for financial advice.

Like, that's obviously an authentic don't use it. But if that's not the case in your family, and let's say you're going through a real life situation such as got a new job, trying to set up a retirement plan. Hey, how did you guys handle setting up your retirement plan? I'm trying to kind of figure this out for myself. I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed. What did you do? Oh, we have a pension. Oh, we did this. Oh, we don't have one. All of those answers give you some beginner level insight. Or hey, we just got married and we're trying to figure out all of the whole wills and the estate planning stuff. And who did you guys use as a lawyer? We'd love a reference. Or how did you guys decide who's going to be guardian of me when I was a kid if something happened to you? All that kind of just beginning the conversation, seeking advice. You can also just go the classic, hey, Jackie's parents

just retired and moved to XYZ retirement community. Have you guys thought about what you want to do when you retire? Basic conversation starters. Now, as you get into it, it could be you're starting to realize, yikes, they're not ready or they won't even engage with me. And if you're dealing with the won't engage with you, one tactic is just to assume the worst and to start preparing for it. Like, can they move in with you or with one of your siblings? Do you guys have the ability to start an emergency fund where siblings put money aside every month to have an amount of money set aside for mom and dad? What are ways that we're going to care for them as they age? Having those conversations, especially if you have siblings amongst yourselves.

Also keeping in mind, splitting things 50-50 isn't always fair. You have to be honest with your siblings about what you can and can't afford. Some people might contribute more financially than others do in a variety of circumstances. Other idea, it sounds slightly emotionally manipulative, but I do think it's important to bring up that this is causing you stress and anxiety and to tell your parents honestly, mom, I love you. For example, if there's a history of dementia in your family, but you know, there's a history of dementia in our family. I cannot stand the thought of you having a diagnosis and us not having the legal paperwork in order to immediately

be able to focus on your long-term care. So it would mean a lot to me if we went and did all of the necessary paperwork to make sure legally, if something were to happen, I can step in and help or, you know, John can step in and help or whatever it is. Another one is just being honest. If there's no history of illness, just being honest about, I love you guys. I understand that you don't feel this is my business. But at the end of the day, we are connected. You are my parents.

I'm always going to be here for you. And so to not have this information is causing me a great amount of stress and anxiety. Can we just have a basic conversation so I know some information? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like, I guess the other kind of key is, especially if you encounter parents who are just resistant, is to not give up just trying once. I think a lot of us would assume like, oh, well, they're not comfortable. I don't want them to talk about or do anything that they're uncomfortable with. But also I feel like that's an excuse because

you just don't like confrontation. And it's probably uncomfortable for you. And yes, all of these conversations, friends, family, romantic partners, this is slowly over time. This is an evolving conversation. None of this has to be everything all at once. In fact, it shouldn't be. It should be little bits and an evolving conversation, unless there's something super critical that's obviously forcing your hand. Another interesting idea when it comes to parents is if there is an in-law. So you're married, sibling is married. If there's an in-law that your parents have a really healthy relationship with, trying to send them in. Because I have found

in my own scenario, I love my in-laws very much. They love me very much. My father-in-law refers to me as his daughter, but I am not. And that has nothing to do with bloodlines and everything to do with the fact that he did not raise me. But we have a very close relationship. I've been in this family for a decade plus. So sometimes there are certain things it's easier for them to talk to me about because I'm loved, but I am not their child. At the end of the day, I'm not their kid. And so it's not quite the same mental stress trigger of facing your own mortality and looking at your child. But it's somebody that you love and trust. And maybe that's not an in-law. Maybe that's an aunt, a rabbi, a priest, a community leader, a doctor, a therapist, someone else

that you can send in to be like, can you start this conversation? This is important. Oh, yeah. Lots of conversations. And I hear this all the time where it's like, you know, they won't listen to me. It's like maybe they'll listen to some person who's like one degree away from you, but still close. Because sometimes, I mean, I think we've all experienced this where it's like you tell your partner something. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they hear the same thing from someone they know. And they're like, oh, my God, I just learned this. I'm like, I told you this. You just didn't listen. Yes. Everyone has had that experience. So sometimes having someone else to kind of be the message giver is a good idea. And we do have to respect in the conversation with parents dynamic. It's really tough, too, because you are potentially changing the paradigm of this child parent relationship. And you're kind of trying to parent your parents, which feels uncomfortable on both sides. So that's the other reason, take it slow, be tactful,

start with just some basic questions, see where that leads you, and then get into the heavier stuff as you've laid this groundwork. Or maybe they'll surprise you and be like, here's all of our estate planning information. Here's everything you need to know. Here's how we're planning to retire.

And they just had never brought it up. Yeah, Yeah. We'll have to, man, this just brings up so many conversations I still have to have with my parents, my in-laws. I mean, we, we've slowly had like started these conversations, but there's, I'm like, I don't know where their stuff is. You know what I mean? Like that's important. Like physically, where is it? Like maybe my sisters know, but I don't know. And, even having conversations about, you know, for my in-laws, it's like, are you going to continue to live in that house? Are you going to sell it and move someplace, you know, with the lower cost of living? And so far, no.

So it's also this like, okay, we'll just monitor the situation and just keep bringing it up, you know, once a year to be like, hey, how are things? Anything changing? And that's really all you can do at the end of the day, you can't steamroll your parents. They are adults. They get to make their own decisions with, you know, obviously the caveat of if they are found by the courts unable to make their own decisions, then you might be appointed. But in the majority of cases, you have to at some point respect the boundaries of if they choose a certain lifestyle. And even if it makes you uncomfortable to watch that happen,

they are adults. They do get to pick that for themselves. And that goes for partners, friends, any kind of relationship you have in your life, which I feel like this is kind of a nice way to tie into the beginning of the conversation we had at the start of this podcast. It's important to have these conversations, but at the start of this podcast is you, it's important to have these conversations, but at the end of the day, you can't actually change someone's actions or behaviors or choices. It's not up to you, but it's important to have those conversations because that might actually have a really big impact down the road. And one great way to do that is grabbing your book is honestly, and I've told you this, you know, before I hit the record button, I'm like, there's

no book quite like this. There's of course some books and I've had, you know, recent guests on the show talk about, but it was specific to conversations in a, you know, romantic relationship. And it was more like, you know, if you were thinking about getting married, make sure to have these talks. But it's like, we have so many different relationships and money comes up in those conversations. And you're like, how do I navigate this? I have no idea. I don't know where to find this information. So it's nice to have a book that really deals with all of the above. Well, thank you. And I'm very excited about it. I love the scripts. I talked to a lot of very smart, very experienced people in all sorts of realms that provided a lot of really great insight about how to navigate these inevitably awkward conversations that we have to have.

And it's, I mean, that's the thing. It's like, we're going to have to navigate them. And I think that's the important thing. It's like, we're going to have to have these conversations, whether we want to, whether we plan them, or they just come up naturally. So it's nice to be prepared. Agreed. So before I let you go, where can people find more information about you and your new book, Broke Millennial Talks Money? So Broke Millennial Talks Money and the former two books in the Broke Millennial series are all available wherever books are sold. And I always like to plug your local bookstores. Please support them. And if not, if it's not in the budget to buy right now, check your local library. And if they don't have it, you can request it. You can find me on Instagram at Broke Millennial

Blog, on Twitter at Broke Millennial, and the website is BrokeMillennial.com. Amazing. Thanks so much for jumping on the show again. Can't wait to have you back for whatever you have in store next. Always great to be here. And that was episode 263 with Erin Lowry. Make sure to check out her website, BrokeMillennial.com and follow her on Twitter at Broke Millennial and on Instagram, Broke Millennial Blog is where you can find her. Honestly, I love her Instagram, so make sure to follow her. And of course, grab, I'd say all of her books. Remember, there's three. So we got Broke Millennial, Broke Millennial Takes on Investing, and her latest one

is Broke Millennial Talks Money. I'm going to include links to all of those and links to things that we talked about in this episode, in the show notes for this episode. So just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 263 to find that on my website. And you can find the show notes for every episode ever that I have done at jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast. Okay, I've got some really important things to share with you. So don't go away. Just a few words I want to share about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the Momany Podcast is supported by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, CDIC. Did you know that CDIC protects up to $100,000 per category per member institution?

Let's break that down, shall we? First, if you hold savings in cash, GICs, or other term deposits, or even foreign currency at a CDIC member institution, those deposits would be protected up to $100,000. And if you have joint deposits with someone else, those deposits would also be covered up to the $100,000. Same goes for deposits in your RRSP, TFSA, RRIF, and trust accounts. Each would be protected separately up to $100,000 and that is at the same institution. Now if you bank with more than one CDIC member institution, the situation repeats itself. So if you've had $300,000 spread evenly across three different banks or categories, your entire $300,000 would be protected. See what I did

there? It's important to know this so you can maximize your deposit insurance coverage. To learn all the ins and outs of how CDIC works so you can feel confident about the safety of your savings, make sure to visit cdic.ca. Once again, that's cdic.ca don't care. You're only going to win one though. Okay. If you get chosen, you'll only win one. I'm the one who chooses the winners. So I will know, you know, I'll know that you entered all of them and that's fine, but I'm only going to choose you for one. Okay. So that's just how it works. So make sure to do that. JessicaMoorhouse.com slash contest. Again, I'll also include that link in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 263. So make sure to go there. So that's the contest. Other exciting news though. So if you're on my email list, like I told you to get on my email list last week, so hopefully you listened. I sent out a very special email on Sunday night with some very big news about my investing course.

So number one, the name of my upcoming investing course is wealth building blueprint for Canadians. It is specifically for Canadians because it's about Canadians investing. Um, number two, the official launch date for this course. So when it will be, uh, ready to enroll is February 10th. So Wednesday, February 10th, I will open the doors. However, and you'll know this if you got the email, I'm doing a bit of a different situation in terms of how you can enroll. Basically, I'm doing a lot of research, having a few prior courses and just seeing, and also, I mean, I'm in courses about how to make courses, all this kind of fun stuff.

I'm kind of changing how, you know, basically how you can enroll. If you want to enroll, if this is something that you want to do, you first have to apply. And then I look at basically all of your information and I decide whether if it's a good fit or not. I will include a link in the show notes for you to apply. But then I'll look over your answers. If you are kind of a good fit, we'll jump on a call together. I will share more specific information about what's in the course and what you can expect from it. And then if you want to enroll, then you can enroll. But that is kind of the process. I basically want to make sure that the people who are applying and kind of going

that extra step of applying and having a call with me are actually going to do the course. Because I just don't want to have a course where people sign up for it and they don't actually do the work. Because the only way you're actually going to get results and build your wealth is if you actually do all of the things in the course. Like the blueprint I've created for this course, it works, but not unless you actually activate it. But super excited for it to launch because it is, I mean, it has been, I would say like a good several years really in the making. It's not really a revamp of my last course, if I'm quite

honest. It's a completely new course. But it's intense. It's intense, but I'm really, really excited about it. So again, check the show notes for more information or get on my email list. I will be sharing more information on launch day, February 10th. But since you listened to this episode, check the show notes, jessicamorhouse.com slash 263 for the link and you can apply now. Oh, another thing I want to share since it is Wednesday, February 3rd. And if you follow me on Instagram and social media like Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, you will know this. So highly recommend you follow me, especially on Instagram at Jessica I Morehouse. But basically, I am doing a free webinar tonight hosted by the University

of Waterloo alumni Toronto chapter. You don't have to be an alumni to join, which is awesome. Anyone can sign up. It's virtual. It is called Investing Today for Tomorrow. So it's on investing. So if you want to learn some stuff about investing, I'm doing a free presentation tonight, February 3rd at 6.30pm Eastern Time. So for information, basically just go to my Instagram and check out the link in my bio. There's a sign up link. So sign up and check it out and join me tonight for a free webinar. What else do I have?

I feel like that might be it. Honestly, I have just been working day and night on this investing course because that so that is like literally the only thing I've been up to. There's nothing exciting in my life going on. I well, I got my eyes checked, you know, so I'm going to get some new glasses. That's the excitement of my life. So that's what's going on with me. Hope you're doing well. Um, but yeah, that's really all I've got to share. Oh no. Hello. I'm like, I know there was something else I was going to share. What was it? Oh yeah. Hello. Um, I have a special bonus episode tomorrow, dropping tomorrow. So make sure to subscribe to however

you listen to the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever and get ready for a bonus episode dropping tomorrow. Okay, that is actually it. Okay, great. So hopefully see you back here tomorrow. Have a good rest of your day, your week. Otherwise, also see you next Wednesday with a fresh new episode as well. All right. See you. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.