More Money Podcast - 268 Is Now the Time to Invest in Cryptocurrency? - Ayelen Osorio from Netcoins, and Elliot Johnson from Evolve ETFs

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

Well, this episode is a big first for me! Not only is this the first-ever double episode, in which I share not one, but two guest interviews. But this is also the first episode I’ve ever done on cryptocurrency. With all the talk in recent weeks about Bitcoin, I’ve finally given up thinking that cryptocurrency is just a trend or an asset that only tech bros or get-rich-quick investors are interested in. Even though it’s still very new, in my view it’s safe to say that cryptocurrency is here to stay. I’m still an ardent promoter of passive investing using index ETFs, however, I think it’s important to talk about other types of investing too. So the first interview is with Ayelen Osorio, the Content & Community Manager at Netcoins. Netcoins is one of the leading cryptocurrency trading platforms in Canada, providing access for people like you and me to invest in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Tether. Going from zero crypto knowledge now teaching others all about it, Ayelen provides a crash course in cryptocurrency to demystify digital currency as an investment type and share how why it may make sense as an addition to your portfolio. As Ayelen mentions in the podcast, to learn more about cryptocurrency Netcoins offers a free Crypto Academy online course you can check out on their website. For my second interview, I chat with Elliot Johnson, CIO & COO at Evolve ETFs. Evolve ETFs recently launched the second-ever Bitcoin ETF in Canada (ticker EBIT), making owning a bit of Bitcoin more accessible by trading it on a traditional stock exchange through your discount brokerage account. Not only that, you can hold your Bitcoin ETF in your TFSA or RRSP (something you’re unable to do with an actual Bitcoin). This is a very exciting time to be an investor, and although I’m still cautious (what couch potato investor wouldn’t be?), I’m interested to see where cryptocurrency will go in the future. Maybe in a few more years, like when this show turns 10 years old, I’ll do a follow-up episode to see how much has changed. Remember, people thought using a digital bank 10 years ago was risky, so who knows what will happen with cryptocurrency! For full episode show notes, visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/268 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is episode 268. Damn, that's a lot of episodes. Goodness. And this is a very special episode. I'll tell you why. A few reasons. Number one, as you will see on how long the length of this podcast is, it's a whopper. It is a longer than normal episode. And the reason is I've got two guests on the show back to back because I'm diving into a topic I have never delved into in the history of the show in almost six years that I've had this podcast. Not once have I had a guest on to talk about cryptocurrency? Because quite honestly, as someone who is not an early adopter of anything, like it took me forever to get rid of my BlackBerry. I still

miss it. Still miss it. I was very resistant to having any expert air quotes here on the show to talk about cryptocurrency because for the longest time, it just seems like some sketchy little thing that was like throwing your money away the most volatile roller coaster thing in the world i'm like no we're not doing this we're not doing this but i mean if you've been paying attention to the news i think things that the tide is turning and uh we can't ignore the power and and and the future really of cryptocurrency and what it means for us as investors and just what it means for currency and the future of currency. So here we are. It's 2021. We're going to finally talk about cryptocurrency. But you know what? I'm excited about it because I've got two amazing guests on the show.

First, the first interview I'm going to share is with Ailyn Osorio. She is from NetCoins, and we are going to dive into really cryptocurrency in general, Bitcoin in general, and how to actually buy some cryptocurrency using a platform like NetCoins which is Canadian FYI. And then we're going to jump into an interview with Elliot Johnson from Evolve ETFs. Evolve ETFs, if you've, you know, I mean, you probably wouldn't know this unless you're really snooping for it, but it was in the news recently. They launched the second ever Bitcoin ETF in Canada. So yeah, very exciting things. So we're going to talk about cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency ETFs and what this all means for us as investors. So I hope you're excited because I'm actually very excited. Before I get to that first interview, let's just first hear a few words from this episode's sponsor.

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notes for this episode. Once again, to save 20% off with any TurboTax assistant review or full service product, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash TurboTax. Well, thank you so much, Ailyn, for joining me on the podcast to dive deep into the world of cryptocurrency, a topic I've never really, no, I've never explored this on the podcast. So very excited to have you on this show. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Your role is a content and community manager at NetCoins. What is NetCoins all about and what do you do there? Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here and talking about crypto because I think it's such a confusing topic that really needs to be understood. Like you said, I'm a content and community manager at NetCoins. And what NetCoins is,

is a cryptocurrency platform where you can buy and sell cryptocurrencies. And my role as a content and community manager is really to educate Canadians on what cryptocurrency is and why it's important. And what's actually really interesting is that they hired me because I didn't know anything about cryptocurrencies. Which is a good place to start because then you're like, okay, I can put myself in the shoes of most Canadians. Yes, totally. They were like, you know, so much of the information that's out there is so complicated and complex. And you read it, you're just like, I'm more confused than ever before. If we hire someone that doesn't know

anything about it, then Canadians will follow her in that journey and grow with her. So I think that was a very risky and smart move. So that's sort of what I'm doing now is just getting like people to get excited about cryptocurrency to understand and to not just invest, but to understand in what they're investing in and to get excited about it because it's really fascinating. Yeah. And I feel like, and that's so important too. And that's why I wanted to do an episode on this just because there's been so much more buzz lately about cryptocurrency. And for a while, I even felt like, okay, I'm not going to really have this conversation or these topics on the show just because it felt like it was kind of a niche thing, or maybe I wasn't sure if this was

going to stick around for a while. And it seemed like the only people that were really involved investing in that were people who would normally invest in maybe risky investments, speculative things, kind of outside of the norm, which usually what I talk about on the show in terms of investing is like boring old, get rich, slowly passive investing in your ETFs. And so I'm like, I don't know if this is a right, but people are talking about this. And I feel like cryptocurrency is here to stay in whatever form. I'm sure it's going to evolve over time as well. So I think this is so important for people like me and my listeners to better understand this. So it's less scary. And I think that's a big concern of people that they're like, oh, I don't know if I want to touch that. That seems really risky and scary. What are your

thoughts going from zero knowledge to now, you know, teaching people about this? I'm sure you've learned a lot over all your time doing all this research. Yeah, for sure. I mean, when I first started, I wanted to pull my hair. It was really frustrating. I just felt like it was a really frustrating experience because I'm like, why are you including very technical words in the description? Like there's a lot of beginners. And I realized that a lot of, obviously, cryptocurrency is created by developers. Yes, which I mean, they're not the easiest translators.

No, and there isn't really great marketing for it. There really isn't that story to propel the masses to jump on board, right? And so now we're starting to see like more of the marketers and more of the storytellers now understanding cryptocurrency and telling the story of it. So I think that now is a really great time to get started because there's a lot more content that's helpful, that's really like broken down into easy steps. But when I started, I started at Netcoins at the end of 2019 and you know, it wasn't as big as it is now it was really really frustrating i had to ask the team oh wait what is it okay why cryptocurrency why a currency like i had to

really ask the dumb questions uh but i feel like once you start to if you if you're patient enough and you're and you're studying it and um you stick with it there comes a point where you're just like oh okay i kind of get it oh my gosh this, this is so cool. This is fascinating. And it starts to really open your mind because I find that the more I was learning about cryptocurrency and specifically Bitcoin, because it was how I started, the more I was learning about economics and human rights and sociology and technology. So really, it's a really great way to expand your mindset, right? Because when we think about money, we never think about, well, who's managing it? And how does money structure society? And how does it affect our lives? And how can technology be used to help, you know, elevate society? So

it really makes you question a lot of things. And it makes you grow as a human being. It's not something that, it's probably shocking to hear that, but that's why we're here to help Canadians see that, that it's not as scary. It doesn't have to be as complicated as people are making it out. It's, you know, it's, it's for everybody. So we want everybody to know that. And that's what I think the, what I've been seeing a lot and what I want to kind of talk about this on the show is it is becoming a little bit more open.

It's not such a like, Oh, just a small group of people can invest in this. Now it's, I mean, you have a platform where anyone can invest in this type of asset, which is so interesting. So let's kind of go back to the beginning for people who are like, I'm still kind of trying to wrap my head around what exactly cryptocurrency is in general. You give us a kind of a nice digestible definition of what is cryptocurrency? For sure. Cryptocurrency is essentially digital money. And it is not issued, it is not managed, it is not controlled by an institution, a government, bank, a corporation, a group of people. It's for everybody. Everybody can have access to it. Everybody can partake in the rules of the game. Everybody, there's transparency. So that's how I would say it in a nutshell. And it's really, really interesting because say, for example, I'm

originally from Venezuela, right? If I want to send money to Venezuela, and I don't know how much you know about Venezuela, but Venezuela, there's a lot of hyperinflation. There's a lot of corruption that's happening. If you send money, it takes forever to arrive. And I have a lot of family that's still there. And if I send money there, then really you have these middlemen that are managing that money that I sent to my family, and they're really taking a big cut. And so it's a bit of a punishment to developing nations, that when you're trying to send money back there, you're trying to help your family or whatever, you know, that the poorer the country is, the more of a cut they take. And so then there's really like a trillion dollar

industry really profiting off of people that aren't so well off. But if I take, for example, Bitcoin, if I were to send them Bitcoin, then I can send that money directly to them in a way that's really instant with very minimal fees. And then that's that. So the idea really is that Bitcoin or cryptocurrency, a lot of people believe that it's going to be this global currency. And there's a lot of debate in the community about that, because I think some people believe that it will be. It's just not there yet. And another group think, well, it's never going to be that global currency, the US dollar will be, etc. But what we're seeing right now is that Bitcoin is being used as an investment, as a store of value. And what typically happens with currencies that a lot of people don't know is that they start out as investments, right? If

you take gold, for example, people were like, okay, well, gold, back in the day, gold was really valuable. I'm going to hoard gold and I'm going to keep it. And then, you know, somebody else was like, oh, shoot, like gold is very valuable. I'm going to keep it. And eventually enough people have gold as an investment that then they start trading it

and then it becomes a currency, right? And so the fact that it's now being used as an investment, as a hedge against inflation, et cetera, doesn't mean that it might never be a currency. It just means that we're really early on still. Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me. And you can talk a little bit more about this, about how mining works, which to me is very cool.

I'm like, I can't really wrap my head or visualize how digital mining happens. I literally just think of someone in a mine, you know, digging for, you know, coal or whatever. But, you know, that's lots of the conversations I've been having lately is I think I definitely understand the concept of cryptocurrency being a form of investment. But yeah, the currency part, I don't think we're there yet because, well, no matter like right now, if you look at the price of Bitcoin, I mean, that's no one has has that kind of like i don't have that kind of money to buy one bitcoin like one bitcoin can't be one dollar so so i think we're i guess we're not at that point yeah whatever actually let's let's kind of go back because i did mention mining do you want to kind of mention that part of

it because i is that specific to bitcoin or is that for all cryptocurrencies that are around so okay so i'm going to take it a bit further and say that there's different cryptocurrencies. There's thousands of them. I think last time I checked, there were, I think, 4,000 cryptocurrencies. And one of the- Really? Yeah. It's a lot. And one of the questions I get asked a lot is like, why are there so many cryptocurrencies? And I'm like, well, first of all, there's a lot of currencies in the world. That's true. That's true. There's a lot of them. And so this isn't new.

And second of all, we kind of have to change our mindset about cryptocurrencies, that they're not all built to be a currency. Some of them will just be applications, other things will just be tokens, etc, etc. So what you have to think about each cryptocurrency is you kind of have to think about it as a project and say okay well what is this cryptocurrency or this project or this startup if you will uh trying to achieve uh and do i agree with it do i believe in it okay then it's worth investing right and so that's why you shouldn't ask oh what you know how should i get rich what cryptocurrency should i invest in the next no think of it as like a stock do your research if you believe in it then invest in it right not all the cryptocurrencies. I don't personally I don't think they're all going to last.

I think it's kind of like any technology, like the best ones will survive. And the specific case with Bitcoin is that really its role is to be a store of value, an investment. It's not to be a smart contract, et cetera, et cetera. Right. OK, so I'll start there. Each cryptocurrency is then created differently right so i'll focus on bitcoin which is bitcoin mining right which is this idea of like oh my gosh miners and you know what yeah why what are you mining if it's not digital money like i don't get it and and so what it comes down to really is the way if we compare it to how our traditional money is created i'll take for, for example, the case of Venezuela.

We had a government still in power, and so they decided to print a lot of money, right? They were saying, okay, we're going to help everybody create all these programs, and we're going to print money to support those programs, but we're also going to spend a lot of money for the government itself. Now you see a lot of money being printed and, you know, the more money you have in circulation, then the less it's worth. Right.

And so they printed so much money that in four years, I think inflation went from 46% to 1,700,000%. Whoa. It was, and yeah, you, I mean, you had to, they were printing out so much money. You needed like $1 was like a house full of cash. Like it was worth nothing. And what these government decisions about money do is really a worst case scenario, draft people into extreme poverty and completely ruin their lives.

And in a way it's just a human rights violation. But no one's holding them accountable because they have the military on their side because they've got the power. And so that's sort of where Bitcoin mining comes into play. It's saying, you know what, we're not going to have people produce Bitcoin because we don't trust people, because people are biased by their political beliefs, know, beliefs, by their upbringing, their beliefs about the economy, et cetera, et cetera. We're going to leave it to code. And it's going to be code,

the one that releases the Bitcoin, right? And so the way that Bitcoin is then released is that you have all these people, let's call them people, with the machines, their five pound machines or whatever. And what they're doing is that they're trying to guess this numeric problem and it's a guess because it has to be everybody has to have an equal a chance to solve it right but the problem

is that this guesswork yeah it's great because it's guesswork but it's bad because there's more than trillions of guesses that you have to go through in order to release a Bitcoin. And so what a miner has to do in order to be rewarded Bitcoin is, one, be able to process a lot of data and to be able to guess that that numeric problem. And I think I think there's like the computers have to be able to process like something like six trillion numbers. And so you need a really like powerful computer to do that. Yes, you could try and solve it like by hand. You'll never get that. It'll take you like a thousand years. Or you could use your Mac computer to solve it. It might take you like a hundred. So you really need these advanced computers to be able to just process. It's almost like brute force. Guess the password.

And once the miner arrives at that, then what happens is they get rewarded Bitcoin, but it's essentially just minting currency. Then Bitcoin gets released into the economy. And what Satoshi Nakamoto, who is the creator of Bitcoin, did was he wrote the white paper, wrote the first lines of code. And he said said what should happen is that there should be this numeric problem that gets released every 10 minutes. If it's really hard, then make it easier. And if it's really easy, then make it harder. But we want that consistency. So every 10 minutes, a new problem gets solved and more Bitcoin gets released.

And so in that way, it's predetermined. It's consistent. No one can touch it because it's hard coded, right? And it's not like, you know, the Venezuelan government that can just decide, well, today, we're going to put a lot more money and then change people's lives. So that's, that's kind of the power of Bitcoin mining is that you can't really change it, nobody can go and produce all the Bitcoin at once, we're kind of stuck with the code. And and that's a way to protect its value and protect it from hyperinflation and protecting it from people wanting to mess around with it. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. But I'm curious, since there are like thousands of other cryptocurrencies, do they kind of work in a similar way? Some do. Others, again, it depends on the community that's building it. And that's,

they will decide what the rules of the game are. They will decide how it gets released. Some cryptocurrencies will be like, well, you know what, let's release half of the cryptocurrencies and the other half will mine. Or it really depends. So you have to look into it. Because at the end of the day, like how any kind of money gets released is how it can maintain its value over time. And it is how you're able to maintain wealth over the long term. So I see since most of us like just like listen to that, like there's no way I'm ever going to be a miner, figure out that code. Or me. Yeah, that's not going to happen. So I guess then it's now the only way to really own, you know, such as a Bitcoin is to buy it from someone who has it. And the way to do that is to're like, you know what? I'm really into this. I'm going to sell my car for Bitcoin. That's great. But probably the easiest way is to go through a Netcoins platform, buy it. So how that works is

you would deposit Canadian funds in your Netcoins platform, and you can do that through an inter-e transfer. You can do that through online billing or a bank wire. And then once you see your Canadian funds in there, then you're able to literally click buy. And then you just see the cryptocurrencies that we offer. We offer seven cryptocurrencies, probably the most popular ones. And that's it. And you enter the amount that you want to buy, $200 worth, $500, $50 worth, and click confirm. It really is that simple. And then if you think that the price of Bitcoin went up and you're like, well, I want to cash out, then that's really easy too. You click on the sell button and you say, well, how much do you want to sell? And you see it in your Canadian balance in the platform. And then you can send it to your bank account, etc. So it really is easy.

You create an account, you get verified and you're able to trade within minutes. It's not as scary as it used to be in the past. Because again, I think enough time has passed that exchanges have upped their game. We've hired amazing designers and teams that can now make it as easy as possible for everybody to invest. Okay. I've got a couple of questions. First, you mentioned you can buy like $200 worth of Bitcoin. Obviously, one Bitcoin is something crazy, like over $50,000 now. So does that mean you own a partial Bitcoin? Yes, exactly. So you and a bunch of other people own fractions of this Bitcoin together? Exactly. Yes. And it's different to the stock market because say if you want to buy an Amazon stock, you have to save the $3,000 to buy that one Amazon stock. With Bitcoin

and other cryptocurrencies, you can just buy a fraction. $10 if you wish, and you're just like, I'm terrified. I still don't trust that I'm going to start a small, you can do that. And there's different investment strategies. So if you start, you can start by dollar cost averaging in. So you say, I'm going to, you know what, I'm just going to spend $1,200 in Bitcoin this year. And I am going to buy $100 a month. And then when I get to the $1,200 and I'm done. And what that does is you're buying Bitcoin, you know, say in this case, every month. But you're averaging out the price at which you buy.

Right. So you can do that. You could buy every day, every week, once a month, once a month etc etc um and so that's one strategy another strategy is um to set a percentage of your portfolio into bitcoin um it could be one percent it could be half a percent whatever you're comfortable with um i think that's really important for people to know is like there's a lot that is being set out there oh put this much this much, the X amount into Bitcoin. Ignore them. Ignore them, please. Like put in whatever you're comfortable with. Yeah. Don't put your life savings into one type of asset. That's always kind of the best rule. Don't put your life savings into one thing.

Definitely. Like diversify, you know, it might be great to invest in the traditional markets and the non-traditional markets like Bitcoin. But do your research. Another thing that people do is to buy the dip. So when the price goes down, then they go and buy that dip. And so then they're able to have even a bit more Bitcoin. And so our platform has price alert notifications and you can set parameters. So you can say, hey, Netcoins, let me know when the price reaches $30,000 or when it increases or decreases by 10% because I want to know and then I want to go in and buy. Or we have limit orders and you say, buy Bitcoin when the price hits $30,000 and then it does it for you.

Okay. I'm curious because you mentioned, so NetCoins, maybe you can explain this more. Is it a brokerage or is it an exchange? And so if it is an exchange, how does that work? Are you only able to buy the Bitcoins that are available in NetCoins' exchange? I don't know if I'm getting that right. How does it work? Yeah. And that's why we offer the most popular cryptocurrencies because we want to actually have access to those cryptocurrencies and that you don't find yourself in a situation where you're trying to buy and then, oh, NetCoins doesn't have anything. Right? Right. Right, right, right, right. Okay. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it's really fascinating.

So are you buying then Bitcoin from Net? Does Netcoin have these cryptocurrencies and they're selling it to the investors or investors buying it from each other? We would buy it and then you're buying it off of us. Okay. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I thought you were buying from other investors, but no. So you as Netcoins are continuously, I suppose, buying more cryptocurrencies if there's more demand from investors. Yeah, correct. And we're actually seeing more institutions buying Bitcoin right now. I think you've probably been following up with Tesla, for example, recently buying $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin. And we're seeing like Square as well. And so I think Elon Musk got a lot of heat for that. Yeah, I mean, it kind of made everyone go like, oh, and there's a lot of craziness for that kind of ensued. I mean, pretty much anything he does, everyone order to support people, then printed out a lot of money. And a lot of the more advanced investors see that as something to

worry about. They see it as like, oh, well, if we're printing a lot of money and it's being injected into the economy, well, then we're entering this era of inflation. And we haven't seen the consequences of all this money printing yet. It's still too fresh. We're still in it in five years, 10 Tesla, Square, MicroStrategy now just getting billions of dollars, even millions of dollars from their corporate treasuries and putting it into Bitcoin because they're like, well, you know what? Bitcoin is limited. There will only be 21 million Bitcoin in existence. It cannot be hyperinflated. It's going to retain value. So we're going to buy more Bitcoin. And I suspect we'll see more corporations buying Bitcoin this year and onwards. And I suspect that the price will continue to go up. Of course, it'll go down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because the Bitcoin...

It's volatile. That's the thing that people, I think, especially during this time where there's a lot of excitement, people are like, all right, I'm going to go into it. It's like, we need to also look at some of those charts from the past. So you understand the ups and downs. Yeah. Yeah. It's not for the faint of heart. But the good thing is that there is volatility, right? Because it's still early on and we're still trying to find that sort of like market fit. Like, you know, how does it work? How is it priced? The price is set by supply and demand, just like real estate. So it's increasing, there's more demand for it. And as more corporations put more money in, you know, then that helps to increase the price.

And so that's really interesting. People think that it's just kind of guesswork, but it's actually by just supply and demand, like the price of, like I said, real estate or bananas, etc. Yeah, and volatility, I find is really interesting, because it sort of is very volatile if you compare it to the dollar. But if you compare it to like the Venezuelan currency, if you compare it to another currency around the world, to them, they would say, well, I don't care about Bitcoin's volatility because at least it goes up. The volatility of my currency, it's very volatile, but it goes down. And I'd rather then hedge my bets and put it into Bitcoin. And when you look at the rest of

the world, not everyone is as privileged as we are in Canada. And to them, they see it more as a safe haven and a safe bet. And I think that a lot of, we're starting to see more and more people see that in Bitcoin in the developed world. Now, one thing I want to talk about, because I think you kind of mentioned storage, and that's definitely, I think, a concern of a lot of people is, okay, let's say I buy a bitcoin or a form of cryptocurrency where do I store it I know there's different ways there's like cold storage and warm hot I don't know the other one how does one store this cryptocurrency is like I guess like let's talk about if I were to use netcoins by you know a certain percentage of Bitcoin, where does it go?

How do I keep it? And also, you hear all these stories about people forgetting their passwords and then losing all this money. People obviously want to avoid doing that. Yeah, for sure. So I'm going to preface that by saying that in 1833, I think it was that year, the government in the US, the government at that time, a lot of people were holding gold and the government decided we're going to confiscate all the gold.

You're not allowed to have gold and we're going to fine you or put you in jail. And so the government went and collected people's gold. And we learned a really hard lesson there is that if you leave gold in vaults, they can get confiscated easily. Or if you leave your money or your wealth in an institute anywhere else where you don't have access, then it can get taken away from you. And so Bitcoin is often called digital gold or gold 2.0 because they share a lot of similar characteristics. And there is a saying in the Bitcoin community that says, not your keys, not your coins. If you don't hold your Bitcoin and you alone are in control of it, then you don't own it. Anyone can take it away from you, right? And if we're seeing Bitcoin be this investment asset that can store value over time,

it is really important for you to learn how to have access to it, how to protect it, right? Most important thing. And that's what at Netcoins we're trying to help Canadians is like, it's not enough to just invest in it. You have to understand it, learn how to protect it. And we created this Cryptocurrency Academy, netcoins.ca slash crypto dash academy. Yeah, so we talk about how do you keep your cryptocurrency safe, right? What we would suggest is that you start by setting 2FA, two-factor authentication on your Netcoins account so that you have to prove that you're getting in.

What's often recommended is that once you buy crypto from an exchange then you move it to a wallet like you were mentioning wallet gotcha that's the term and yeah and and the wallet that is not connected to the internet so like maybe a usb that you can pull out that's considered like the safest because obviously anything on the internet can get hacked um you can write on a piece of paper if you wish like there's different a variety of wallets out there or you could leave it in online wallets there's lots of them available online um or you can leave it within the exchange um but then again what's really recommended is that you pull out just to keep keep it safe and and you have that access yourself but you're totally right

like a lot of people will create these wallets or create accounts forget their passwords and then not be able to get in and you know like you wouldn't forget the password to your bank account right like this is you know you have to take ownership of your finances right like that it has to be what you do uh but the bitcoin network itself hasn't been hacked. People have tried and not succeeded. So, you know, itabbling into it because, you know, maybe this is a good idea for the future? What should people be aware of that, you know, maybe lots of people aren't? For sure. I would say, oh my gosh, so much, first of all. I know. I know. I would say this is a really important and pivotal time to learn about cryptocurrencies because we are in a

really unprecedented time with a pandemic and we haven't even begun to grasp what's that doing to our economy, to our society, to the way that we're structured and function, right? So you have to think about ways to protect yourself, right? And that is obviously saving, learning about money and wealth, and looking at the options you have available. And just because someone says that something is very bad, and it's evil, well, question, why is it? Why are people saying it's really bad? That should be your first cue. Maybe it's actually really good, and people or institutions don't want you to have that power. Because if you own your money and your Bitcoin, you own your wealth, right? If the banks own Bitcoin or institutions own Bitcoin and they own the money, then they essentially own you and in the end, a bit of your freedom, right?

So learn about the options you have out there. Do your research. Don't get stressed. Please don't get FOMO. Yeah, don't invest in something that you don't fully understand. And just because you feel like everyone else is doing it. Yes, relax. Yeah. Don't invest in something that you don't fully understand. And just because you feel like everyone else is doing it. Yes. Relax. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency world is a marathon. You know, it will go up, it will go down. It's okay.

Do your research, remain calm. Don't follow just everybody because they're doing it right. Like understand what you're investing in and why. And invest only what you're comfortable with. And, you know, I always say Bitcoin rewards the patient investor. And, you know, check out NatCoins. We've got an amazing, kind team. Like we are so helpful and we want to see you succeed, whether that's through the platform, whether that's through education. Like we want Canadians to be there and to make the most of Bitcoin. And we especially want women to be a part of this because right now the cryptocurrency industry

is really filled with men who are making themselves wealthier. And we want women to be a part of that. And it's not as scary as it used to be anymore. So try it out and reach out if you have any questions. Amazing. So yeah, before I let you go, what are some of those important links that people should... because you mentioned the academy, NetCoins, where can people find more information about everything you kind of talked about? For sure. I would say start out with netcoins.ca. That is where you can learn more about our company and create an account and start trading. And then within netcoins.ca, you will also find our blog and our Crypto Academy. Our Crypto Academy is Netcoins.ca slash crypto dash academy. And we're going to continue evolving that.

But I would start there. Yeah, perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me on the podcast. I feel so much more knowledgeable. I'm sure my listeners feel the exact same way. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun to chat. So that was my interview with Aileen Osorio. Remember, she is the content and community

manager at NetCoins. You can learn more about cryptocurrency in general and NetCoins at netcoins.ca. And you can also follow them on Instagram and Twitter at NetCoins. I will, of course, include links to learn more in the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 268. But we're not done here, are we? We are not done. We have one more interview to go and you're going to love it. My next interview is with Elliot Johnson. He is the CIO and COO of Evolve ETFs.

You can find information about them at evolveetfs.com and on Twitter at Evolve ETFs and on Instagram Evolve ETFs and on Instagram Evolve ETFs. Again, we'll include all the links to go to to learn more about both of these guests in the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 268. But for this episode, we're going to talk about cryptocurrency, but we're also going to talk about this new financial product called a Bitcoin ETF. What the hell does that mean? And is this kind of the future of cryptocurrency? Maybe, you know, on one side of it, you can buy the actual cryptocurrency or you can buy ETFs of that cryptocurrency. It's very exciting. Very exciting. So let's get to that interview with Elliot from Evolve ETFs. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show, Elliot. I'm excited

to have you on the show. The first episode I've ever really dedicated to talking about cryptocurrency in depth. I feel like I've waited a long time to do this episode because as someone who is 100% always the latecomer to the party, I am not an early adopter of anything. It took me a long time to get an iPhone. Yeah, I wasn't really sure if cryptocurrency was going to stick around. It's sticking around, so we've got lots to talk about. Thanks for having me on your show. I'm excited to talk about it.

So, so, so, let's first kind of dive in. You are the CIO and COO of Evolve ETFs. Can you kind of share what is Evolve ETFs and what do they do? Yeah, thanks. So Evolve ETFs is an ETF company in Canada. We've been around for three and a half years providing ETFs in what we think of as innovative parts of the investment space. So we've really made a name for ourselves in disruptive tech investing. We launched Canada's first cybersecurity ETF, Canada's first video game ETF.

We launched the world's first ETF to track the supply chain of things like electric vehicles, which were obviously a huge change happening in the world. So really what we look for when we put products together at Evolve is we try to think about where the world is going, what are going to be the meaningful trends that are changing how people live. And we're obviously very excited about all these trends because we really think technology is improving the world. And so cryptocurrency is a key part of that. But that's only our newest product. I mean, we've grown to over 1.7 billion in assets in three and a half years, which makes us one of the fastest growing asset managers in the country. And we've really done it, I think, by building products that

resonate with investors who, you know, see the world changing around them and are looking for ways to invest and really by challenging kind of, you know, the some of the old assumptions around investing that you just buy kind of, you know, a passive portfolio of stocks and bonds and hope for the best. We think that there's there are there are many more exciting places to be investing. And that's really what we're focused on. Someone who talks a lot on the show about passive investing and indexing and investing in, you know, broad market products, which I'm obviously a big fan of. So the products that you offer obviously are not broad market. They're very niche, it sounds like, very specific. And so can you kind of explain, let's say if someone did want to have a diversified portfolio of index ETFs, how would they integrate some of the ETFs that you kind of

mentioned into their portfolio? It sounds like they have a very specific purpose. So what would that kind of look like, do you think? Yes, it's a great question. And maybe to kind of put it in context. So I'm sure a lot of people who listen to your show own things like the S&P 500 through an index fund or the NASDAQ 100 through an index fund. But I wonder how aware everybody is of how heavy those indices are in a very few number of names. So, you know, the big large tech giants, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Google, and Microsoft make up 46% of the NASDAQ 100 and 23% of the S&P 500.

So when we look at those indices, we think, you know, a lot of investors are overweight tech. They've got way more tech than they think they may have in those indices. But they're underweight growth because a company that is, you know, two trillion dollar market cap company is going to struggle to become a four trillion dollar market cap company. Whereas companies that are smaller in emerging technology fields have a lot more growth prospects in front of them. And so what we've seen a lot of customers of ours doing is looking at their passive investing. We still think passive investing makes a lot of sense for all the reasons that I'm sure people talk about all the time. But adding in some of our specific disruptive tech themes to that passive portfolio to try to inject some of the growth back into it that you've been investing in tech for decades to get. So you could take your S&P 500

and say, well, I'm going to take 5% of that allocation and put it into things like cybersecurity or automotive innovation or video game investing, because these are massive growth areas of the market that are not well represented in those indices. So there's very little overlap between these products of ours and those broad indices. So it really does provide a diversifying benefit to the investor, as well as providing more growth in the long run as these industries and trends continue on. And so that's really, I think, a useful framework for looking at it. We're not saying passive investing is bad. We think it still is a great way to anchor your overall portfolio. But it's not the only recipe. And sometimes you have to look inside those

indices and say, just exactly what is it that I hold? And when you realize that you hold the NASDAQ 100 and half of your investment is in about six names, it's not the 100 things that you think you're diversified into. In fact, you've got a lot of concentration risk and we can help to solve for that with some of our products. That's very interesting. Yeah. So I guess let's kind of dive in to the latest ETF that Evolve has manufactured, the Bitcoin ETF. So I was reading up, so you're the second ETF provider to actually create a product like this. There's one other provider that's created it in Canada. And correct me if I'm wrong, there's no Bitcoin ETF that exists in the US yet, or maybe I'm wrong. No, that's correct. The SEC has received a lot of applications,

but so far is not approving any in the US. So Canada's ahead on this. That's kind of excited. It is. Yeah, that's exciting that Canada's ahead of the game for once because I feel like in general, when it comes to financial products, we're late to the party. So that's very cool. So what was the reasoning, I guess, behind Evolve creating this Bitcoin ETF? Yeah, we created it because, first of all, we think that digital currencies are here to stay. We think this is a real trend that's going to modernize finance around the entire globe. So there's a massive benefit to everybody in the world that comes from digital currencies. But one of the biggest challenges right now to invest in them is access. If you want to buy physical Bitcoin yourself,

you need to sign up for an account on an online website that you may not have a lot of confidence in. You might not know if they're well organized. It's very difficult for an individual to figure that out and determine what one website is versus another one. You then have to wire money to that website, which I think for most people is a gating item. It's a stopping point for them adopting it because you typically aren't comfortable wiring money to a place that you don't really know. Especially in Canada, people trust their banks and their brokerages for good reason. We've got a very well-regulated, stable financial system in this country that has earned the trust of customers decade after decade through thick and thin and deserves that trust. So getting the money to a place where you can buy actual Bitcoin is challenging. And then

you have to log in and trade the Bitcoin or buy the Bitcoin. And then you have to deal with all of the problems and challenges around holding your cryptographic keys that relate to your Bitcoin and managing those. And so none of these are insurmountable problems and plenty of people have done it. But you do have to be pretty tech savvy and comfortable with all of those challenges in order to get access to this cryptocurrency. And so our fund is an attempt to provide that access to investors, but through an exchange traded fund, an ETF that trades on the stock exchange, and you can buy and sell it like shares of a company in your brokerage account with your broker that you've been using for all of your other investments. And so it's just an access point.

If you own units of EBIT, that's the ticker of our Bitcoin ETF, EBIT, then you're buying EBIT on the exchange. And when you buy that for $25, you have $25 of Bitcoin in your brokerage account because the fund only buys Bitcoin. That's all the fund holds. And so in that sense, it provides access to investing in this currency to people who see the potential of it, understand why it's a great idea to maybe diversify their portfolio using Bitcoin, appreciate the future potential that this holds, but just don't want to go through all of those challenges of investing directly in it themselves. And also, as a trading vehicle, it's great, right? Because maybe you buy Bitcoin this month, and then you want to sell it next month and buy something else. Your brokerage account lets you do that. You don't

have to wire money back and forth between two different places to be able to rebalance your portfolio or do the other kinds of normal things that you would do as an investor when you're running a portfolio. Yeah. No, I feel like that's definitely a big barrier for just understanding how that process works. Like you just explained, it seems very convoluted and kind of scary for people who've never bought Bitcoin before. And also, I think we've all heard stories of people losing their passwords and they lost thousands and thousands of dollars. So that seems like, yeah, I think one of the things that always scared me off Bitcoin, I'm like, so that seems way more complicated than buying a stock. I don't

think I'm comfortable with something like that. So now you're kind of giving people that kind of same access, which is interesting. So I know the question people want me to ask it. I'm curious, too. Can you explain like how is this Bitcoin ETF constructed? I think a lot of people are like, I don't know if I quite understand the construction. It's an ETF, but there's Bitcoins. How does that all work? What's that kind of look like? Yeah, I really appreciate the question because this is really what we want to explain as clearly as possible and have everybody understand, because we're actually not trying to tell investors should they or shouldn't they buy Bitcoin. I think that's really a decision for the investor to make. What I would love for

everybody to hear is the way in which our Bitcoin ETF is built. We've built an institutional quality fund with regulated entities all the way through the chain of the operations of the fund. And so in a nutshell, the way that it works is when you as an investor buy units of our fund, they're sold to you by what's known in the trading world as a market maker. So that's one of the big banks.

They all trade ETS. So some bank or dealer is going to sell you that on the stock exchange. When that dealer runs out of units to sell, they come to the fund to get more units. There's a mechanism for them to buy more units from the fund. And they do that by giving the fund the cash equivalent of the value of those units. And so now the fund has cash. And what we do with that cash is we immediately wire it to our Bitcoin custodian, a company called Gemini Trust that's based out of New York.

And at Gemini Trust, we buy Bitcoin and Bitcoin is stored by them in a very secure environment. The keys are held offline from the internet, what they call a cold wallet, so nobody can steal the keys. You can't hack the keys because that computer isn't even connected online at all. And that is the way in which the fund holds Bitcoin to the amount of all the assets in the fund. So if the fund has a million dollars in it,

there's a million dollars worth of Bitcoin held at Gemini Trust. So the units of the fund trade on the stock exchange between investors, or if you're buying them, you're buying them from a dealer. And your unit represents that Bitcoin. Now, all the way along the chain, everybody is regulated. Our fund is regulated. In fact, that was the great breakthrough last week was that Canada's regulators agreed to allow Bitcoin funds in Canada, being the first in the world. And by the way, just on that point about Canada being first or second or behind or ahead, the first ETF in the world was created in Canada in 1990.

We've been ahead on ETFs all the way along. I think we continue to have probably one of the most progressive regulatory environments in the world, and I think we should be proud of that. Our company, Evolve, is a regulated investment manager in Canada. We are audited by Ernst & Young, the big audit firm. Our custodian is a company called Seidel Trust that is regulated in Canada. Gemini Trust, who holds the Bitcoin, is regulated by New York State. And importantly, the Bitcoin that we buy is priced using a reference rate called the CFCME Bitcoin reference rate, which is a bit of a handful. It's a large name, but it's the rate that's used by the CME futures market for Bitcoin.

So the price we use to price the Bitcoin that we buy has already been used to clear over $300 billion worth of Bitcoin futures over the past three years. It's the most widely used and widely recognized reference rates. And they themselves are regulated by the UK Financial Conduct Authority, as is that rate itself. And the futures are regulated by the CFTC in the States and the pricing source, it's all completely transparent. All of this information is available on our website, evolvevts.com. Every single step of the way, anybody can look at it and examine that entity and say, you know, are you a legitimate company? Who regulates you? Are you audited? Show me how all of that fits together.

And everything in the chain is that way. We think it's particularly important for Bitcoin to have that kind of regulated structure around it, because that, I think, is one of the missing pieces for broader adoption of cryptocurrencies. It's this concern of saying, I don't really understand it. I don't it's not controlled by anybody. Nobody is in charge of it. And how do I know that it's not a scam or how do I know that my money is safe, et cetera? We've worked very hard to build that kind of security or confidence, I guess I should say, around Bitcoin so that individuals can feel confident in using our product and knowing that they're getting access to Bitcoin. Awesome. So I know what's on a lot of people's minds, especially since Bitcoin has been in the news a lot lately, is just how volatile it is and also

just the unknown. I mean, you look at the charts over the past, you know, several years or past decade, and it's kind of scary to see the ups and downs. I think a lot of people that are still kind of resistant to it, it is because of the volatility and the unknown factor. What, in your mind, you know, we see a lot of big companies starting to buy up a ton of Bitcoin. That kind of seems like a, you know, okay, well, if these big companies are going to be dropping millions a ton of Bitcoin, that kind of seems like, you know, okay, well, if these big companies are going to be dropping millions or billions of dollars, then this seems like this isn't going away anytime soon. Can you kind of share what is going on with kind of Bitcoin right now? What is the change? It just seems like there's a big wave of change going on right now. Yeah, we've been following the Bitcoin market in terms of adoption by big

institutions for over three years. We actually filed for a Bitcoin ETF in 2017, but we couldn't get it approved back then. So we've been very closely watching this for a while. And I would say the big change since 2017 is that back then, what you would hear from people is, there's a lot of career risk for me if I'm a portfolio manager or if I run a company in using Bitcoin, because if I'm wrong, then that's it, right? I'm going to lose my job. Now we're hearing there's a lot of career risk for me if I am not taking a look at Bitcoin, figuring it out and figuring out how to use it. We have crossed that bridge of credibility as it relates specifically to Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency that people believe is here to stay. One of the reasons it's believed to be here to stay,

I think actually relates to your comment about volatility. It famously has had massive ups and downs, but it's still here. And you typically don't see that from things that have massive ups and downs, have that resilience to then keep coming back and keep coming back. And one of the reasons I think it's done that is because it is recognized as kind of the the cryptocurrency that everybody kind of knows about and and has understood and looked into. It's the first one. It's the biggest. And it has a limited supply, which is why it's attracting investments from, you know, famously, Elon Musk has bought some for Tesla. Paul Tudor Jones, the hedge fund manager in the US, has been investing in Bitcoin. There are more and more examples every day. And the reason that these folks are buying it is I don't think it has anything to do with speculating on

will the price go up. I think what they're actually reacting to, and they'll tell you this, is they're reacting to the challenge they face looking long term at the value of cash. So they see the amount of money printing that's being done by the central bankers around the world. And it really picked up again in 2020 in the reaction to the COVID pandemic. This stimulus, which is important for families who need help, comes at a cost. And it comes at a cost of having more dollars in the system than there were before. So if you had a dollar, and then the central bank, 100% more dollars, well, your dollar on a relative basis to all the dollars out there is now worth 50 cents. And so there is a concern that that will affect the buying power of cash. created, the original Bitcoin white paper references the global financial crisis and

the central bank stimulus that came after that. And it's right there in the paper saying, we're concerned about holding cash because we're concerned that central banks can just print more of it, diminishing the value of our cash. So we're creating this digital currency with a finite supply that has no central control. So nobody can mess with it. There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoins in existence ever. And we're very close to that number. So the amount that Bitcoin supply will increase from now on is negligible. So if you own a Bitcoin today, your Bitcoin is going to be roughly the same amount of total Bitcoin available tomorrow, next week, next month,

next year. That store of value concept is, I think, really what's causing people to recognize that there's value in this structure. It has achieved credibility. It's got widespread adoption. And frankly, this is why it's called digital gold. People have been referring to Bitcoin as digital gold for a long time because gold historically provided that kind of assurance. The problem with gold is that the higher the price of gold goes, the more people are out there digging holes trying to find more of it because there is more, right? And so you do have, you know, that more gold comes into existence every year from mining operations. And that, you know, that, that continues to happen.

Bitcoin is designed to be, uh, to have that finite supply dynamic, not to be, not to have people just say, well, I just go invent more Bitcoin. It's no problem. Um, and frankly, you know, is, is, is a whole lot easier on the world than digging holes to try to find precious metals. So, you know, it has that advantage. And it's for the digital age. You know, I mean, I think the other thing about it in the past year in a lot of people's minds is everybody's using digital cash in some form. I mean, you know, because of the lockdown of the pandemic, I don't go to the store to buy things in person very often. And I haven't used cash because people don't want to touch things because of all of that. So I personally haven't used cash for quite a long time.

And I've mostly gone to digital payments, tap to pay and stuff like that, even for the years prior to that. So it's not as big a challenge to jump from that form of money to decentralized Bitcoin, because it's all just digital anyway. And it's just a matter of kind of appreciating that it does have value, appreciating that that's a thing that you can use. And then I think that those things have all kind of come together and maybe got accelerated a little bit by lockdown when everybody's just, you're, you're online a hundred percent of the day right now. So, you know, it doesn't seem as weird anymore. Yeah. And also just, yeah, the power of social media, right. I mean, it's actually kind of wild. Elon can just tweet something and then there's a big shift going on. But yeah, it's interesting. And like you said,

yeah, I haven't used physical cash for a good year, if not longer. I mean, I was kind of moving. I didn't really use cash too much beforehand. But yeah, there was a while, I think it's changed a bit now where at least in Ontario, lots of cashiers weren't accepting physical cash. You had to use digital currency because they didn't want to touch it. So it's interesting. I'm curious, though. It seems like a lot of, I mean, at least what we're talking about, and this does make sense to me, that Bitcoin makes sense in terms of an investment. But in terms of a currency, I mean, especially since the price is so high,

do you think it will actually be a form of currency people can use to buy goods and services? Or do you think it's more going to be kind of an investment for people? Yeah, I think it's a great question. And I do think that that's been, you know, there was a lot of promise around Bitcoin when it was first invented, and people thought, well, we'll be buying things with it. And I don't think that's really matured yet. It certainly hasn't matured as quickly as the concept around this being a store of value. I think the adoption for transactions is going to probably come first from digital services. So buying things online would likely be easier to integrate. But going into a store and actually buying with Bitcoin,

I think it's going to take a little bit of time. I think, though, the interesting thing about currency is it all depends on your point of view. So Canadians don't, we trust our government, we trust our banks, and we have confidence in the Canadian dollar, and all for very good reason, and so we should. But if you go to Venezuela, where they famously got hyperinflation, or you go to Zimbabwe, where they had hyperinflation 10 years ago, the people in those countries are really scarred by that because their purchasing power was vanishing in front of their eyes. And for them, the idea of transacting in a digital currency is something they're far more open-minded about and doing. I think there's more adoption in some of those places than there is here because they have had to, out of necessity,

find some other way to store their value and exchange value for goods and services. We don't have that problem. So I think one of the barriers to adoption of Bitcoin as an actual currency to buy and sell things is that it's not really solving a problem for Canadians because, you know, the Canadian dollar is great. We're fine with it. And so that's why I think in, you know, the US, Canada and parts of the developed world, Bitcoin is much more a digital gold concept, because we're fine on the other stuff. For now, I think some people are seeing the potential inflation that comes from the massive increase in the money supply. And that's causing them to think more about digital gold. But we have a long way to go, if ever, to get to the point where we actually struggle to transact on a daily basis, buying things for ourselves and our families using the Canadian dollar.

I don't have any lack of confidence in that. I don't think there's anything wrong there. And I think that's why there's a bit of a difference in terms of the ways in which this is playing out. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to explain everything. I feel like I have so much more information now. I'm sure listeners will better understand this weird world of cryptocurrency because I feel like there's still a lot of confusion and misinformation. So I appreciate you really explaining it in a clear and precise way. Where can people find more information about Evolve ETFs? And from what I understand, if they want to invest in this Bitcoin ETF,

it's literally a matter of, you know, finding it through your discount brokerage and placing a trade? Yeah, so it's as easy as that. You can talk to your investment advisor as well to, you know, to look at the fund. All of the information about this fund and any of our other funds is on our website

at evolveets.com. I'm on Twitter at Elliot Evolve ETF is my handle on Twitter. Also, we're active on LinkedIn for those who are interested in following us there. And I would encourage folks to reach out to us if they would like any other information. I mean, as you can probably tell, we love talking about this stuff. So I really appreciate being on your show to talk about it more. And that was my interview with Elliot Johnson, CIO and COO of Evolve ETFs. You can check them out at evolveetfs.com, on Twitter and Instagram at Evolve ETFs. Of course, I will include some important links

that you'll want to check out in the show notes for this episode, JessicaMorehouse.com slash 268. I'm also planning on making a very exciting YouTube video soon about me actually investing some of my own money into some cryptocurrency using netcoins and also buying some of this Bitcoin ETF. I just want to test the waters. I just want to try it out and then show you what it looks like. These interviews, honestly, I've never really done this and they're not paying me to do this. They're not paying me whatsoever, actually. But I'm just curious. It's something that kind of is outside of my comfort zone and I've been so resistant to cryptocurrency in general for so many years i just want to kind of you know just kind of get rid of

that fear and just dive in a little bit and show you what it looks like so uh stay tuned to that so go to my youtube channel if you go to jessicamorehouse.com youtube it'll take you right there just google you know jessicamorehouse in uh youtube and you will find me subscribe. Please subscribe. So that's something to look forward to. But I, of course, have more exciting things to share with you. So do not go away. Please stick around. I just have a few words I want to share about this episode's sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by TurboTax Canada. Oddly enough, the most popular videos I have on my YouTube channel right now are about taxes. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that so many Canadians received income through benefit programs this year, like the CERB.

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I've got so many freaking videos about taxes. It's too much. I'm taking a bit of a break because I have done a lot of videos on taxes. But if you want to learn about taxes, how to do your taxes, self-employed taxes, all that kind of stuff. Got a bunch of great videos that you'll want to check out on my YouTube channel. Now, another reminder, because hey, this is like week three, basically, or I think so. I think so. I think if my math's right. But my investing course is live. It is open for applications. I've been getting some questions like, are you closing it anytime soon? No, no, no, no. I'm not. There's no plans to close it. Maybe I'll like halt applications if the volume gets too much, which I'm not at that point yet. And that would

be an amazing thing to happen to me. But no, no, no applications are open. So apply to my wealth blueprint for Canadians. What it just means is you apply. I see if you're a good fit for the course. If so, then we'll have a little chat over the phone. I'll share more about the course. And if it's good for you, you want to do it, then you can get right in. There's a number of students in there already. And they're, yeah, they're loving it. I've got to say, got to, you know, pat myself on the back a little bit. People are going straight into it. And really, yeah, liking it. And it makes me really happy. And also, there's so many cool things I'm adding to the course. It's not just like done and like, see ya. To kind of give you a little

bit, you know, we've got a Facebook group. I do live bi-weekly Q&A calls. So you can submit your questions directly to me. I'm doing expert interviews with some, you know, top people from some of the top, you know, discount brokerages, financial institutions, ETF providers, lots of exciting things that I'm including exclusively in the course. So very exciting things. So to learn more, well, check out the show notes. That's the easiest way, jessicamorehouse.com slash 268. Or if you just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop, there will be a link to the application form for the course, Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. Okay. Nah, that's not a very good

jingle, is it? I'm not good at jingles. That's why I don't really have one. So that's going on. Also, reminder, I am giving away a ton of books. If you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest, you can enter to win a number of the books that I'm giving away. I'm going to be giving away more books as more amazing authors are on the show. I will be giving away their books. So go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest to enter to win a book. What else do I got? I feel like that's enough. I feel like you've probably stopped listening because hey, we're at over an hour. So I get you. You got a life and you got things to do. And that's totally fair. So thanks for listening. I will see you back. Actually, one last thing. I've got another

episode for you tomorrow. So we're in tax season. And every single year since I've pretty much done this podcast, I've had a special guest who is here to talk taxes. And this year is no different. So check out tomorrow's episode, subscribe wherever you're listening. Because if you want to learn about some of the new tax credits deductions, you know, for Canadians specifically, especially with all the different benefit programs, I know you have questions and I ask as many questions as I possibly can to my tax experts. So make sure to stick around tomorrow because I got a fresh new episode for you. Yeah. Okay. That's it. Thanks for listening. I'll see you tomorrow. This podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network

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