More Money Podcast - 272 Balancing Money & Covid One Year On - Kelley Keehn, Personal Finance Educator, Speaker & Author of Talk Money to Me

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

One year ago I had Kelley Keehn, financial educator, speaker, media personality, and author, on the show to discuss her latest book Talk Money to Me. And then a few weeks later the pandemic hit and everything changed. Well, she's back on the show with a new edition of her book that includes passages specifically talking about Covid-19 and its impact on people's finances. Some people had the roughest year in 2020, and are still struggling in 2021. Many people lost jobs, racked up debt, and have struggled to earn an income and keep up with their bills. And others have experienced the opposite in that they never experienced a significant change in their income or jobs (aside from working from home) and have actually been able to save more money than usual by spending more time at home with less stuff or experiences to spend their money on. So...what does this mean? What should you do or change in terms of managing your money if you're in either camp? How has this pandemic changed personal finance for all of us? Kelley Keehn is here to share her insight and some tips to help you no matter what you're going through. For full episode show notes, visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/272 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is episode 272, and I have a wonderful repeat guest for you. She has been on the show twice before, once on episode 131, back in, gosh, November 2017. That was the first appearance. And then she was on the show last year, actually February 26, 2020, right before things turned a corner into pandemic world. That was episode 228. If you want to check out those episodes, of course, I am talking about the one and only Kelly Keene, personal finance educator, speaker, and media personality, and of course, author. So she was on the show around this time last year

to talk about her brand new book called Talk Money to Me. And a lot of stuff went down right after she launched her book. So we have a lot to catch up on. But also, she's back in the show because she has a new edition of the book called Talk Money to Me COVID Edition. So, you know, a lot of things happened during the past 12 months because of this pandemic. And she wanted to include some new chapters and information about, you know, dealing with a pandemic, which I think is very topical. So, so excited to have her back on the show to talk about some things we all experienced and some tips for people who have had a really rough 2020 and still are experiencing a rough 2021. And then on the other side of it, people who maybe had an opposite

experience where, you know, they've actually been able to save money because they have less expenses. They don't have to commute to work. They can work from home, all these different things. Maybe you are one of those people who was able to find a cheaper place to rent or moved out of the city completely and your cost of living is cheaper. So we address all that in this episode. So I know you're going to love it. But before I get to that, here's just a few words I want to share about this episode's podcast sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Coast Capital Savings. To mark this year's recent International Women's Day, it has never been more important to celebrate the incredible women in our lives and to show our support for all women while also

addressing the startling impacts of COVID-19. That's why the More Money Podcast is partnering with Coast Capital Savings on their Keep Her on the Map campaign to shed light on the disproportionate impacts the pandemic has had on women, but more than that, to rally support for women-led businesses and provide resources for all women who have felt the impact of COVID-19. So with that, I encourage you to lean into your purchasing power and support women-owned businesses. I've shared a few of my favorite businesses on my social media channels, so do the same to spread the awareness and put your dollars where

your values are. To learn more about how to support women to own businesses or to find resources for women who have experienced impacts to their physical, mental, or financial well-being, visit coastcapitalsavings.com slash keepheronthemap. Once again, that's coastcapitalsavings.com slash keepheronthemap. Welcome back to the show, Kelly. So glad to have you back on. I feel like we have a lot to catch up on since I last had you on the show. A lot has happened in the world. A lot has happened. And girl, I'm so proud of you. You are just a force of financial nature. 2021, you are still crushing it. Congratulations. Thank you very much. I take that as a big compliment because I really look up to you

and what everything that you've been doing. So thank you so much. So last time I had you on the show, we were talking about your new book and you have a new book, but it's basically, can you kind of explain? So it's a new book, but it's kind of based off the last book. Yes, exactly. Yes. It is the new edition. Yeah. It's the new edition of the last book. It's Talk Money to Me COVID edition. And yeah, we just, you know, Talk Money to Me came out and you were so gracious to have me on. We were doing a little book tour and then COVID hit. And as you know, you were doing tons of media, I was doing tons of media, people needed help desperately. And my publisher was was gracious enough to say, let's update this. And you know, put some significant new information into the book

that reflects what people went through. Yeah, so I'm so curious. So I'm wondering, because I follow you on social media, and you you were writing, was this the book that you were writing and kind of sharing on your social media? No, no, that is another book that's coming out. Let's see, that should be out probably very late this year, early 2022. And yes, it's I can tease it a little bit. It's like talk money to me, but it's going to be for women, a whole new kind of chapter. So I'm super excited. I'm still finishing that manuscript. Oh, well, that's something else to look forward to. That's very exciting.

Thank you. Okay. So I guess let's kind of dive in. So yeah, you were kind of at the forefront. You really, you know, I saw you did a lot of media. You talked to a lot of people throughout 2020 about what was going on. I guess, what are some of the things in this new book? What does it kind of address? I'm curious, does any of your advice from the original book talk money to me? Has anything terms of kind of the advice that you gave? Well, and that's a great point. So this is a new edition, I should be clear. And it's so what we did was we left Talk Money to Me alone. So if you skim through Talk Money to Me, or if you decide to or get it at the library, you don't even have to buy the book. I know a lot of people are having

some hardship. Basically, we have characters in each chapter. And, you know, we go through the characters missteps and the solutions and their happy ending. So no, a lot hasn't changed. You still need to know the difference between a TFSA and an RSP and all that good stuff. But we added two really robust new chapters to kind of reflect, I think the two camps that are out there and have been out there during COVID. Number one, the person in dire straits. And this character had to shut down her company. She was dealing with a landlord and a lease that she had to walk away from. She had to move back home, look to government supports, didn't put enough tax away, all that kind of stuff, right? Had to defer mortgage agreements and all that kind of stuff. And how was her credit affected? And then we wanted to reflect also the other people that had a very different experience

during COVID. So the other robust chapter is a family that, you know, did all right. They saved some money during COVID, Their kids were at home, but they also did a lot of stuff wrong too. And then they grappled with what do they do with their extra savings? How does their retirement look? All of that type of stuff. One of the characters in the family did lose their job. So there's really a mix of people in dire straits, people that have have extra money, but maybe their spouse got, you know, laid off or or the job disappeared. And now they're missing benefits or they had to stop life insurance payments. So, you know, you still need to know the basics. And that's really what Talk Money to me is all about. It is a very basic read in clear, I hope the clearest language possible. And then, yeah,

just adding on of all of the difficulty and insanity that was COVID and is, I guess, still. Still happening. I know we're still, I always sometimes talk about COVID in the past tense. I'm like, no, we're still in it. But I think honestly, it's just like normalized. So I'm just like used to it. I kind of forget we're in this weird time. But you know, like you said, yeah, I totally agree. There's definitely what I've seen two kind of camps of people, the people that have really had a rough 2020. It's just everything's gone wrong, lost their job or underemployed, you know, all these kinds of things. And then there's also the other people, which is also kind of awkward to talk about that are kind of thriving like you said a lot of people are saving more money because maybe they don't have to commute to the office so they don't you know maybe have to

even drive their car that much they're saving a ton of money that way some people are still you know getting promotions and and all that kind of stuff it's complicated so it's it's i feel like money is something that it has gotten a little bit more complicated because of 2020. Let's kind of focus on that first group because I know lots of friends who've had a really rough time. I had one friend and she is one of those glass half full kind of gals, but she had quit her job and this was maybe in 2019 to travel the world for a year. She's a world traveler. She has been since I've known her. And just at the end of her year-long travel, and she was in Africa, that's when COVID hit. And so she had to rush back home. And her plan initially was finish her travels and then

start looking for a new job. She had also gotten her master's degree before she left on her trip. So it was kind of like a celebration trip. And obviously, things haven't gone to plan. It's not easy finding a new job virtually during COVID. I mean, I think she's actually doing okay compared to lots of other people. But so many people had plans that just totally didn't happen. And now they're just, it's kind of a weird situation. So I guess what I'm trying to say is with some of the people who are kind of struggling, had a really rough time in 2020, what are some of the things that maybe they can look forward to or do right now so they can have a better 2021 or 2022? Yeah, it's so hard. I mean, I talked to a number of people like you, maybe they were,

you know, doing their dream renovation, and one or both spouses lost their jobs, because the reality was, and we were talking about this pre COVID. And it depends what survey you kind of listen to. But there's so many of them that said even pre pandemic, that 50% of Canadians were $200 away from not paying their bills. So it sounded like we were sitting pretty before the crisis, but what it revealed was that, you know, we were doing, like the country was doing all right as long as we were getting that paycheck. And as soon as that didn't happen, and especially if a person was already, you know, nearing maximum, you know,

maxing out their credit cards and things of that sort, that was a huge blow for those people. So, um, and that's the whole point of the book's title is talk money to me is that we aren't talking about it and things don't get better when you don't talk about it. So the reality is, um, sometimes there's no other solution, but to go for some severe help. And it is not a blow at your, like it is a blow at your self-esteem, but it shouldn't be a blow at your self-worth. And that's what I really want people to take away is that you are way too young for this. I'm too young for this, thank goodness too.

But there was a time, people, in the 1950s and 1960s that people used to whisper the word cancer. And today, you know, people run for the cure. We have like Facebook support groups and we have support groups for mental health, but we don't want anyone to suffer in silence when it comes to their physical, emotional, or mental health. But when it comes to their financial health, especially when times are bad, people are suffering alone and it affects all those other things, your physical, your mental, your relationships, your work, the productivity. So the message is, it's like, you know, bill collectors are calling. You really don't know what to do. It's going to be a while till you get back on your feet or get a job. You need to

understand that you need to at least reach out and do some research for help that could be had. If it's a nonprofit credit counselor, if it's a bankruptcy trustee, this is a free call. And you know, if you owe like Revenue Canada money, and you owe money, and there's no way you can pay it. I mean, staying silent. I mean, that is the worst that breaks my heart when I hear these stories from people that wish they did it early. But then, you know, I get these stories from people that did it, you know, they went through the credit counseling, they got their debts paid off, they feel so good now, maybe they even went bankrupt a couple of times, like this is not a reflection of you as a person. So that's kind of the dire straits. If you kind of want to

go into the middle ground, we can too. But I just, you know, if it's really looking bleak, please, like there's always a solution. Don't wait. Yeah, no, I think, I think that's such an important thing to remind people of, of the whole, you know, your net worth or, you know, your financial situation has not, it's not a reflection of you as a person, your self-worth, or even like the things that you can achieve in the future. But sometimes when you're in the thick of it, it's so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But I think also it's important to, like you said, talk about it because you'll find other people who have the same experience and then you can feel not so alone. And that honestly does usually give you that kind of motivation to get out of that kind of rut or that negative mindset and actually maybe do something positive that will help you in the long run. But yeah,

being all alone, it's not a good place to be. I'm sure everyone's kind of been in that place at some point in their lives. I definitely have during the last recession, finishing a university right after. And yeah, it was a dark time, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, but you do, you do kind of, like you said, you do need to seek it out and, and talk to people so they can kind of help you. So let's, yeah, you kind of mentioned the middle ground. What does that kind of look like? Yeah. So I think for the middle ground, if you're kind of, yeah, you're like, you know, the creditors aren't calling, but it was tough and you're not one with like boatloads of money hanging out. I think the most important thing is what we would probably do on January 2nd if we wanted to get in better physical health.

And what we would do is like it or not, we would get on a scale, we would weigh in and see where we are, we would count our calories because going to the gym is only going to get you so far. And then like I said, you'd reach out for help. So the first thing is, I think the pandemic really taught a lot of people that they had not weighed in financially. They didn't really know what they owed, what their interest rates were, when their due dates were, what their spouse made, maybe what their spouse's debt was. They didn't really sit down and look at all of that until it was like, wow, what are you going to defer? When are you going to defer all that type of stuff? One of the number crunching that I did with the new character was, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it was shocking. Even my editor was like, wow, she was in like a 24% interest rate credit card doing nothing more than let's say paying your minimum payment,

if that's all that you can do, but getting your bank on side to get down into a credit card that's at 12.99%, for example. And this is where too, Jessica, right, when you're stressed, and you're feeling alone and shameful, you don't crunch numbers, you don't get on an online calculator and just go, well, what would that really make that much of a difference? Oh, yeah. Like, I'm not even talking about, can you put a dollar more a day to your minimum payment? Of course, that's great. But it was unbelievably amazing how much of an impact that made.

So I think the first thing, so you weigh in, you figure out where you are, you talk to your lenders if you can, and you say, look, like, what do you have for a lower interest rate credit card product? What do you, you know, maybe you're suffering through a temporary, like you said, maybe your hours are cut back and your cash flow is not there.

Like you can throw it to your lender to see if they can throw you back some lifelines. And then, you know, I think we talked about this in our last interview because it was, you know, it was a highlight of one chapter and has been updated in the new edition, is my 30-day anti-budget. Like you've got to count your calories. You have to count your financial calories. So it's just keeping track for 30 days, seeing where your money's going, adding it up, seeing what the categories are,

timesing it by 12, multiplying it by 12. And the COVID edition, 30-day anti-budget. So the pre-COVID was people were overspending on travel and concerts and eating out. Not anymore. Not anymore. So COVID edition was subscriptions, ordering in, booze, weed, all that type of stuff. And if you add that all up with the average Canadian spent in 2020, that's nearly $5,000 a year. So I'm not saying get rid of everything that brings you joy and pleasure, but could you cut it in half? And I'll admit, man, I subscribed to everything during COVID. I mean, the calm app, the this, the that, premium, everything. And then I did the anti-day budget

a couple of months ago and I was like, holy moly, man. Yeah, what happened? And if you're enjoying it, like the whole practice is an exercise in behavioral awareness, but it's also about choice and it's not about sacrifice. And, you know, if you're telling yourself you didn't have money for an RSP or you don't have money for a vacation when we one day get out of this or you don't have money for your latte, I beg to differ. I bet there's stuff that just went on fluffy financial calories that you could have dedicated to stuff that was more meaningful. And then I just want people to dig in a little bit more, too. Like, can you save on your home and auto? Did you dig into that during COVID?

Because you probably weren't driving as much. Like just paying attention. And then lastly, and I mentioned this already for those in dire straits is getting, you know, the advice of a nonprofit credit counselor or a bankruptcy trustee. But there's lots of like financial planners out there that were doing pro bono work

and still are during COVID. Most of the time it's a free call. So like, why not take these professionals? And during during COVID, most of the time, it's a free call. So like, why not take these professionals and I'm not one by the way, for your listeners, I'm an educator like you, I don't provide any advice, but why not take that advice? And see where you know, where how it can change the trajectory of your financial future. Exactly. Like, what do you have to lose? It's a free call. You don't have to do anything. And very well, you could, you know, because, you know, I have lots of, you know, people that message me and stuff like that. And maybe even if that person can't help you, maybe they know someone who can or they can, you know, refer you to some helpful resources to kind of

get you started, which is something I do all the time. And sometimes you just need that someone to point you in the right direction. And then you can kind of start walking on your own. Exactly, exactly. And very lastly, I would say, I think, you know, and it's always joked and I hate using it. But I know I did it the last time I took my husband to New York. I was in New York a ton, but he hadn't ever been and I really want to represent. And I couldn't believe how much time I spent researching rooftop patios so we could have cocktails that summer. And I was like, I have not spent this much time on my finances. And it's like learning the lingo. Like people are like, it's so intimidating. Yes, it is. I agree. Thank goodness there's people like

you out there making it easy and accessible and understandable. And yes, the industry does a terrible job with jargon, but you've got to know the basics because if you don't know the basics, we're in fraud prevention month. You're not going to know that you can't get 7% guaranteed return. That doesn't exist. There's no such thing. You know, if you were going to start playing golf this year, you'd want to know that there's no such thing um you know if you were going to start playing golf this year you'd want to know that there's 18 rounds of you know 18 rounds in a game of golf and a bogey is a bad thing and if you were a newcomer to Canada and you were going to watch hockey this year you'd want to know there's three periods in a hockey game and a hat trick is a good thing like you just got to know a little bit to make the game more fun um and not resign yourself and also like for example

during COVID I don't know what you've been doing but yes I finally got around to some some baking and cooking it took a while for my business to slow down but I don't mind leaning into the frustration of ruining my eggs benedict um you know it's like I failed like my my eggs curdled my my poached over poached my eggs it's like haha that's fun i'll like you know but we somehow as soon as we make a financial mistake or what have you we don't lean into it and i think that's why a lot of people just like are on the sidelines they don't want to get invested they don't want to do the wrong thing um but i encourage you you know know the lingo lingo and start to lean into

the uncomfortableness. There will become a time it gets better. It gets easier. Totally. I think that's so important to remember something that scared you that you were able to overcome that and learn like baking. I'm still not a very good baker. And sometimes though, too, you'll think, oh, I'm just bad at whatever. But you'll realize maybe it's like you're missing a tool or you're misusing a tool, like kind of going back to baking. I did try to bake. I am not a good baker. But actually, that's the thing.

I used to say, oh, I'm not a good baker because I tried to make a couple pies and tried a couple of things. Didn't work out. You know what? It turns out I was using the wrong setting on my oven. No way. Yeah. There's apparently a convection oven and apparently that made all the difference. So maybe you just aren't utilizing your oven whenever your oven could be a bit differently, right?

I think that sometimes people are just on the cusp of kind of getting to that next level, but they're just missing one thing. And again, usually that comes down to having conversation, asking questions, right? It's usually like if you just ask someone or did some research and, you know, I mean, when people, I don't think people realize this, but when people, you know, message me or DM me their questions, I don't always know the answer right off the bat. And so I researched, I probably could be like Google it, but I'm like, you know what? I'm curious about this particular situation. I want to see what other people are talking about. I'll go on Reddit. I'll go on Google. I'll do some research. I'm learning new things all the time. And so that should hopefully make you feel good that there's never a point where you'll know it

all. There's definitely going to be a point where you feel more confident and you feel like you know quite a bit or you know enough, but it's, you should, yeah, like you said, like you said, lean into that, you know, I, uh, you know, this realm that you're, you don't know about because you eventually will learn if you know how to cook and bake and you'll learn something new, you can learn this too. And it does. Yeah. I love it. It doesn't mean that you're going to be foolproof. Like when I, you know, when I did the eggs Benedict, I had, I thought I had mastered my, uh, Hollandaise sauce and it was the sixth it was the sixth time I did it that I curdled the eggs. And then I was like, okay, fine. I'm going to watch every video there is on this.

So just because you kind of grasped maybe a few years ago when you were investing in RSPs what it was and you haven't revisited it for a while and you're like, I don't get it. That's okay. It's okay. Maybe you stopped investing in it. So it just wasn't within your awareness anymore's okay. It's okay. Maybe, maybe you stopped investing in it. So it just wasn't within your awareness anymore. Great retool. There's a million great videos out there and

books and everything. It's, it's, and yeah, you're right. It's that self-talk, right? It's like, I think every time we go back to, it's like, what's the point? It's not going to make a difference. This doesn't matter. I just about ate the whole pie. Might as well eat the whole pie. Like it's, it's, it's where you go. No, today is the day that you deserve to change it. And no, one's going to come and rescue you. The bank isn't going to come and reach out and get you to start your TFSA again. Cause you stopped it in, in, in 2020, no financial planner is going to come knocking down your door with their free advice. Like you deserve this. And yeah, if you need help, it's out there. But little things, you know, I know it's so trite, but they really do make a difference.

But yeah, I think a big thing, and this is certainly what we've been seeing because of the pandemic is the mental health aspect has definitely been at the forefront and realizing how it is so connected to your financial situation in both ways. So if you're having a bad financial time, it'll affect your mental health. But also if you're having a bad time with your mental health, it can also stop you from doing anything positive with your finances. So you got to fix both. I mean, I certainly started seeing a therapist once the COVID hit because I'm like, you know what, this is too much for me to handle. I need some help. And so really kind of, you know,

remembering that you don't have to do this alone. And also you need to take care of yourself. And maybe that will be the thing to help you, you know, because we talked about the negative self-talk that will help you get out of that kind of mindset. So you can believe that you do deserve a better financial future. Now, let's kind of pivot a little bit because I know there are a lot of people who actually were kind of doing okay this year. And I know a lot of people, because I've talked to a lot of these people, they feel terrible guilt and do not want to tell anybody because, I mean, you're not going to get any sympathy or, you know, it's kind of an awkward situation to be like, I did okay. And now I have this extra

savings because we spend less money, but I don't know what to do with it. And I don't know who to talk to about it. So that's kind of, I guess, the other camp. I feel like a lot of those people are buying real estate because that's why Toronto is so crazy. It's like, okay, so everyone's just buying a house now. Great. But, you know, I guess a lot of people are in a weird situation where they're like, I have money. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know where to start. That's a whole other arena. Where would those people start? Yeah, there's like Canadians are theoretically sitting on billions of dollars right now. You know, it's looking at maybe getting that financial plan, sitting down, figuring it out. Definitely understanding what your goals are for you

and your family, because the pandemic is not going to last forever. So you want to make sure that you're not maybe excessively tying this money. Like when it comes to this camp, and you're right, they're not talking about it, which also makes me nervous. I always want people to be talking about money. Sometimes people get overaggressive with their savings. And I mean, you would think that that's a great thing. But if you've got some excess cash, and now let's say you overly pay down your mortgage, have you really thought into the future in a couple of, you know, years or whenever it's going to be when life gets a bit back to normal, that that might have been a little too much a little

too hard to pull it back out? Or Yeah, for sure, like they're going to overly save and then they kind of maybe, you know, the pendulum swings a little too far on the other side. Also, I don't worry about this, but I'd want people to be aware, just sitting on the sidelines in cash, like what you missed in the market is significant. And I don't know about you, but what was it? I think it was the, you know, our stock market in Canada. I think the low was was, you know, not that I provide advice, but I was espousing that, you know, you don't just react because the market's reacting. If you were in that investment and you legitimately should have been there, that wasn't the time to react. But I got to tell you, it was like a gut punch to me too, because I'm watching the news and they're like, this is worse than the great depression. Yep. I remember those. And you're like, is it?

Oh my gosh, should we all panic? Should we just take our money and run to the hills? Like, and a lot of people did and a lot of people did and they sold and they got out. So I think you really, you know, investor know thyself. You really have to examine what did you do and how did you handle 2020? How did you handle the volatility? So that's the ups and downs, big swings, right? Big, big swings, big ups, big downs. And if you think that you or your advisor could have called the bottom or the top, you'd be woefully wrong or give me a call. I'd love to know how you guys are doing that because it's not possible. But a prudent strategy like dollar cost averaging, meaning that you get in or out of the market on a very, you know, methodical, like a consistent day. So you're like, you know, I've got this pot of money.

I don't know where the low is. Don't know where the high is. You're going to invest on the first of the month. Regardless, you would have smoothed out that volatility, those ups and downs. Yes, you would not have bought at the low, but you also wouldn't have bought at the high. And I don't know any better strategy for that. And then also, Jessica, I think it's really important that people do look at their risk and really understand it because when markets are doing well, people always think they have more of an appetite for risk.

And if you're going to sell when the markets are doing their thing or you're going to buy, maybe buy at a high, like if you're going to be an emotional investor, I worry that you're going to lose money at the end of the day because of jumping in and out of the market, trying to time it.

The pros can't do it. You can't do it. You can win short term. Make no mistake about it. The, you know, blackjack table pays out too, but the house always, always wins. So it's just really getting solid with, you know, as much as yes, you have to retool because of COVID don't necessarily throw out your whole financial plan because of it. Like life will in some way, shape or form return to normal. So try to figure out what that looks like and then, you know, construct your plan or reach out for someone to help you to figure out where to go. Yeah, I think it was difficult for lots

of people who'd never, you know, experienced a major market crash before. And so it felt like the only time this has ever happened. And that's why they react. And that's why, unfortunately, yeah, I talked to a lot of people that were on kind of two sides of the spectrum. People were like, oh, should I pull out? And I'm like, no, like this is literally selling and losing your money, locking in those losses. Or there's other side of people that are like, oh, I'm not investing now, but is this the time to buy? I'm like, you know, don't just jump in and buy a bunch of stocks without any research or any plan. Make a plan and then slowly get into it. And so it really is about, like you said, dollar cost averaging is still the best kind of strategy you can do with your investments.

But take your time. I feel like there's FOMO for real. Everyone's just afraid of missing that time. It's like, this isn't the only time this is going to happen. And the best way to invest is right now and just do it consistently. Just don't worry about the market. I know something happened with the stock market the other day. I don't even know what it was. I don't care. I don't check it out every single day because I'm just doing my thing, doing my regular old boring investing. You know what? 100%. And that's how money is made. I mean, people ask me too, like, what do you think of gold? What do you think of this? I'm like, number one, not a portfolio manager, wouldn't comment on it. And number two, I generally, unless I'm researching it for something, I don't know what the market's doing like you, because I've got these tried and true,

boring, as you said, my money's going away every single month and the only the only question I ask myself is can I like find more money to put away that's like that's it and unless you've had something happen of course you've had a job loss there's a death in the family you've had a divorce you've had a child something that's changed in your life this is when you definitely want to re-examine your mix your your asset mix. Don't put your eggs all in the same basket. You want to go and look at your baskets, make sure they're working for you. But you don't just reverse course or what have you because Bitcoin's doing this. Or you can do the Warren Buffett style of investing where 80, 90% of your portfolio is super methodical,

well-constructed and have a party with 10% or what have you, you know, then if you're just that kind of investor that wants to gamble a little bit and do the hot stocks, great. Just don't do it with all of your money. That's what I tell everybody. I'm like, you know what, if you want to dabble in Bitcoin, if you want to dabble in individual stocks, do whatever the heck you want, but have a core portfolio. So if that doesn't go so well, you're not totally screwed. You can still retire. And you know, and you know, the people that do get totally screwed doing that, I can't, like if I could count them, I can't even count as high as the people over my career that I'm selling my business because I'm doing so great with currency trading, with day trading, with whatever. And you only hear from them when they're doing well. And then when it all comes

crashing down as it does, and oftentimes they're using borrowed money to do it, then all of a sudden they clam up and it's unfortunate because you just hear that one side of the story. You don't hear the other side or the few that actually do make it, they're unicorns, they're lottery winners, they're, you know, it's not sustainable. Yeah, they're not, they're the outlier. They're not the common investor. Yeah, no, that's, that's why I was so reluctant to even really, you know, research or really kind of even have a guest on my podcast about, you know, Bitcoin, because, you know, several years ago, I remember, and I want to say this is maybe two or three years ago, because I remember visiting my family over Christmas

and it was very hot and everyone was like, oh, I got to get in. Everyone was really into cryptocurrency. And then it took a big dive after that and no one talked about it. Because people are always talking about their wins, never their losses. Do you really want to follow advice

from some person you don't actually know who says, oh, I just bought a boat? You don't know anything about their actual situation or if they're even telling the truth, you know? Indeed, indeed. So I'm curious as we kind of enter this, you know, we're in this new year, we're still in this pandemic. It is hopefully getting better, though I'm very pessimistic about the rollout of the vaccine. I'm like, you know what? It's probably not going to happen until Christmas, and that's fine. Just having low expectations, so I will hopefully be pleasantly surprised.

What can people, I guess, do now that we're kind of entering this new phase? Is there anything we can do differently to make this year a better one than last year? I think there's some deep questions to ask that, you know, that go deeper than just your money. And certainly what you do for a living. I think a lot of people have been examining that because even if you weren't displaced, you didn't lose your job, you're now at home and you're, you know, you don't have, you know, the distractions of getting the coffee, going to work, going out for lunch. And a lot of people are asking me, Jessica, or talking to me like, do I still like this job? And I'm so grateful to have the job. Like so many people don't have it at all. You know,

can I even ask that question? Yes, you can. Like, you know, you're not going to spend any more time than at work. And there's no investment that's going to return you more than your ability to make an income so if you are displaced if if you were in the hospitality industry is this maybe a time to get skilled in trades because probably renovations won't be going anywhere anytime soon is it time to go back to school is it time to you know really like do some deep thinking? And yes, your money is very important and focusing on it. But that ability to make money and enjoy yourself while you're doing it, I think has been a big wake up call for a lot of people that either are like,

wow, I do love my job or, or man, I'm just like trading time for money. And that is not fun. So I think that, you know, one of the most important things when it comes to your financial life is looking at how you generate income. And if you don't like how it's been going, change it. And you know, interview people that are doing what you're doing, or follow them, or like you said, DM them or whatever, change it, you don't have to like quit your job, but maybe just start to make it a side hustle or a hobby and see where it goes. You don't have to be stuck in what you're doing forever. And, and, and if you're just looking for more income, talk to people like there's so many things you could be doing virtually or digitally that didn't

exist six or eight months ago. There's lots of opportunities out there, but you have to be looking for them. Yeah. Kind of like, you know, we've kind of been talking about during this whole episode is no one's ever going to go up to you and give you an opportunity or tell you, Hey, do you need help with your finances? Like you need to seek it out. So you do need to kind of take that personal responsibility and be like, okay, I mean, that's exactly what I did. Why, how do I have this business that I run now? Literally. Cause I didn't really like any of the jobs I had. So I tried to do something on the side that was, you know, fulfilling and did, you know, slowly kind of make money. And I mean,

I certainly never had the intention of becoming, you know, full time running my own business, but there you go. And it's one of those things where it's like, had I not really taken that leap of faith and just tried something new? And again, at the start, it was just a blog. Who knows where I'd end up? So I'm really glad for just doing something different because none of my friends were into what I was doing, like personal finance or blogging. That was so out there. It's like, what?

Okay. It has nothing to do with anything. But I did it for me. And now, almost 10 years later, I'm like, I'm really glad I did that thing for me. And, you know, even if it didn't mean running my own business, I know it definitely would have pushed me in a totally different career, which would have been more fulfilling. So take this time to really reflect on what your life is all about. And are you happy? Can we make some changes here? This is the time to do it. I feel like there's ever been a time to kind of

reflect on what is my life. This is it. I think you have 100% permission, right? The world is upside down. Make it right on your own terms. Absolutely. It's never been a better time to reinvent yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. No kidding. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the show. I'm so I'm glad that you have this new book with the new chapters. I think people need to, you know, now that we're kind of far away, kind of from the beginning, I mean, we're almost at the one year anniversary, which is not an anniversary, we all want to celebrate, but it is happening. It's nice to I think, now reflect and kind of, you know, think, even if we didn't really do much that the past year to maybe make some positive changes. It's never too late.

You can start right now. Absolutely. And I think just knowing Jessica that we're all in it together. So I am just so proud of you. I'm so happy you took this leap of faith with your career, because where would we be without you and all the great work that you're doing? So see, sometimes when you do something scary and new, you change the world. It has been my absolute pleasure to be back with you. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. And that was episode 272 with Kelly Keene. Make sure to, well, first, check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 272. Of course, check out Kelly Keene on her website. That's kellykeene.com. That's K-E-L-L-E-Y-K-E-E-H-N. That's right. And of course, you can find her on Twitter at Kelly Keene and

on Instagram at Kelly Keene Biz. And I'm sure we'll have Kelly back on the show, maybe in a year's time because she says she has a new book coming out. Very excited about a new book. I love books. I mean, obviously, that's why I have part of the reason I love having this podcast is because I get a bunch of books from publishers and authors. And then I also get to share some books with you, which I'm going to share more information about my big contest, my big book giveaway coming up. But before I share some very important things that you need to stick around for, here's just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Coast Capital Savings.

Did you know that the pandemic could set women back as much as half a decade? Yeah. Looking back at the last year, we've seen the COVID-19 pandemic take an incredible toll on all of our lives. But the reality is it has affected women a disproportionate amount, with the impact on BIPOC women being even greater. That means all the progress that has been made in gender equality is hanging in the balance, which is why the More Money Podcast has partnered with Coast Capital Savings on their Keep Her on the Map campaign. Join me and show some love to women-led businesses and all the women in our lives who have been impacted physically, mentally, or financially due to the pandemic. I've recently shared some of the women-led businesses that I love on my Instagram and Twitter, so I encourage you to share your favorites online and with your friends and family to show women your support and to keep them on

the map. To learn more about how to support women-owned businesses or to find resources for women who have experienced impacts to their physical, mental, and financial well-being, visit coastcapitalsavings.com slash keepheronthemap. Once again, that's coastcapitalsavings.com slash keepheronthemap. Okay, so to remind you, I'm doing a big book giveaway. Try to say that five times fast. Big book giveaway. Big book. No, I can't even do it. I cannot even do it. So if you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest or check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 272, you will find all the books I'm giving away. I'm giving away a ton of books. I also have more to come because I have more authors coming on

the show throughout the season. You can enter to win all of the books. You're only going to win one. Let's be honest. I'm not going to choose you for all of the books or several books. Let's spread around the love. But you can enter to win some books that you want to read. And I don't think most people realize this, but I buy these books and then give them to you. So I'm actually using my hard-earned money to buy you a book. Really, that's what it is. So make sure to check that out, jessicaburnhouse.com slash contests. Let's see what else we got on the go. I mean, honestly, the things that I've been just working crazy hard on is, of course, my investing course, Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. If this is the first time you've heard about it, that's cool. That's cool, cool, cool. I haven't honestly done a ton of promotion for it because

I've been busy enrolling students, adding new lessons and modules and video tutorials. It's so exciting and fun and I absolutely love it. But anyways, if you're looking for an investing course that is specific for Canadians and also focuses on how to get started with investing and also how to invest in a passive way, either using a robo-advisor or self-directed, how to build that investment plan I talk a lot about on the show. I explore all of it in this course, and I highly recommend you check it out. So there is a link in the show notes, again, jessicamorehouse.com slash 272. You can also find a link to it if you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. I feel like that might be it for the moment. There's just a lot of stuff on the go.

And I think that is it for me. Let's just cut it. Let's just keep it short and sweet. But yeah, so thanks for listening. Be back here next Wednesday. Make sure to follow me on the gram at Jessica I Morehouse. Also on Twitter at J-E-S-S-I underscore Morehouse. Not as easy to remember. Also remember, I have a YouTube channel, so check me out on YouTube. Just Google Jessica Morehouse. I'll pop right up there. That's it. Thanks so much for listening. Be back here next Wednesday. Have a good rest of your week. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.