More Money Podcast - 275 Enjoying the Journey to Financial Independence - Jamila Souffrant, Podcaster, Writer, Money Coach & Founder of JourneytoLaunch.com

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

A lot of the time when you start reading about F.I.R.E. (Financial Independence Retire Early), the stories you hear about how people achieved it can be pretty insane. Many people in the community can take living on less and saving and investing every extra dollar to the extreme, which can seem pretty intimidating or just unrealistic. Why can't you enjoy the journey to financial independence? Why can't you work towards building wealth and having more financial security without making so many sacrifices?  Luckily I have Jamila Souffrant on the show, founder and podcast host of Journey to Launch, who shares that it is possible to work towards financial independence and enjoy yourself at the same time. In this episode, she shares what inspired her to achieve F.I.R.E. and how her strategy is a bit more sustainable (and fun!) than some of the more strict paths others may take. Because at the end of the day, life is short and we need to enjoy every bit we can! It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing situation. You can work towards having a better financial life, without having to sacrifice your happiness or comfort for years until you reach your goal. For full episode show notes, visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/275 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. And this is episode 275 of the show. Gosh, we're getting close to that 300 mark, aren't we? I don't know if we're going to get to 300 by the end of this current season. This is season 12, in case you're interested. Just looking at my little spreadsheet. No, it doesn't look like it. That's going to be a thing for season 13. Gosh. So yeah, so very excited to have this next guest on my show. I've been following her for a while. I actually love her Instagram. I've got to tell you, I've got to, you know, of course, love, hate relationship with Instagram. But there's a few people that I actually look forward to seeing

their posts. And she is one of them. I'm talking about Jamila Soufrant, who is also a delight because she's a fellow podcaster. So she's really good at being a guest on a show and has a great mic and that's always appreciative as a fellow podcaster. So you may already follow her and know of her. She has a huge podcast called Journey to Launch, which is really focused on, well, her journey to launch into financial independence and also helping you to become financially independent as well. So like I mentioned, she's a podcaster, she's a writer, she's a money coach and the founder of journeytolaunch.com, where she shares her journey to reach financial independence while helping others do the same. And she's also considered a go-to financial thought leader in the personal finance field

and is the resident financial expert on a weekly segment on News 12, the most watched local news TV station in New York City and has been featured on so many media outlets. It's kind of crazy, including Essence, Refinery29, Money Magazine, CNBC. I can go on and on. And also, oh, and I told her this, I'm not sure if I did it in the actual episode, but her show, which she launched, I believe, in 2017, has over 2 million downloads. This girl who started her show in 2015 has yet to reach that benchmark. So she's definitely lapping me. But anyways, I can't wait to share this interview with you.

I think you're going to love it as much as I loved recording it. Before we get to that interview with Jamila, just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Aviv. So I don't know about you, but I have definitely gained some pandemic pounds. Luckily, this is a podcast, so you can't tell, but I can. I honestly use the stressfulness of the past year as an excuse to work out less and indulge in my favorite not-so-healthy foods. But it's a new year, and I am recommitting to a healthier lifestyle.

And you and I both know the best way to lose weight and get fit is to eat better and move more. And one way to introduce more superfoods, plant-based proteins, and whole fruits and veggies into my diet that I'm trying out is Aviv's blender-free smoothies. First introduced to our TV screens on an episode of Dragon's Den in 2019, Aviv was founded in Sherbrooke, Quebec by Dominique Dubé and Claudia Poulet. As busy university students, they were looking for a way to eat better that wouldn't require time-consuming prep or cooking. So they crafted their first generation of Aviv smoothies in their parents' garage,

and they clearly caught on because their smoothies can now be found online and in over 2,000 grocery stores across Canada and the U.S. To try it out for yourself and to get a bit of a discount, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash Aviv. That's E-V-I-V-E. And use code jessicamorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Once again, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash Aviv and use code jessicamorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Jamila. I'm so excited to finally have you on the show after I really should have had you on years ago, but I'm actually excited to have you on now because I feel like so many exciting things have been happening with you and your business. I think we have a lot to talk about. So I'm very excited to have you on the show. I'm happy to be here,

Jessica. Okay. So your fellow podcaster, your podcast actually is like, so I started my podcast before you, but now you've like kind of done some laps around because your podcast has grown so big, which is just a testament to, you know, kind of the content you put out there, the audience you've built. And I, you know, honestly, I just, I love the messaging around yours. Like it makes you excited to think about things like financial independence and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's so great. I'm such a big fan. So I want to kind of start from the beginning, just in case someone's maybe not familiar with you and maybe they'll listen to your podcast after this. Can you give us kind of the story from before? Even before you decide to start your blog originally, where were you at? What were you doing? What kind of inspired you to kind of get into this personal finance space? Yeah, so I feel like my story in

the beginning is like many others in terms of I wanted more for my life. I was working a corporate job. And just to like backtrack a bit. So I am a child of well, I was born in Jamaica, the island. And you know, my mom was a single mom. And so when she came and immigrated to this country, and then I came a little bit after her to meet up with her, you know, we really didn't have a lot. Like, you know, we had humble beginnings and I just always remembered that I wanted to be my own boss. I always had this kind of free spirit. Fast forward, life, you know, happens. And I remember when I graduated from college saying to myself, I'm not going to work for anyone past the age of 30. I'm going to be my own boss.

And then again, life happened. I got a job and it was a pretty decent job. And I started to do some, just get a footing in life and still was trying. So I started some businesses. I had an online magazine. I tried real estate and none of those things worked. So I'm like, I started some businesses. I had like an online magazine. I tried real estate and none of those things work. So I'm like, how am I ever going to not work for someone else? Because like, I need money and these side hustles are not working. And so eventually I ended up just like saying, okay, I guess I should just like, just be happy with the way things are. My job wasn't that bad. You know, I was making good money after a while, you know, I was climbing the corporate ladder. And so by the time I hit 30, you know, that dream of not working for anyone else was just like, kind of

pushed to the background because I didn't, yeah, I didn't know how to make it work. And so it wasn't until I was pregnant with my first son, I had to commute from, you know, where I live, New York to New Jersey, which was like an hour and a half one way. And which was fine when I was like in my twenties and, you know, no kids. And, but then when I was pregnant, my first child, this commute was horrible. Cause one, I'm in this car pregnant this like for such a long time. And then this one instance, I remember I was further along and it took like three, four hours to get home that day. It was ridiculous. It then this one instance, I remember I was further along and it took like three, four hours to get home that day. It was ridiculous. It was like one of those things where I was just like, this cannot be my life going forward. And it was a wake up call. So then to fast forward

again, like what prompted me to get into the personal finance space was I realized that, if I cannot win the lottery or build the next Google or the next big business? How can I, how can I be in more control of my life? And it was through my, it was through money. It was through utilizing the money that my husband at the time and I had to set a way for ourselves. And I didn't know at the time it was called financial independence, but I started to Google, how do I quit my job? How do I retire? All these things and financial independence popped up and all these podcasts and blogs started to pop up. I know a lot of people, when they first hear about financial independence, sometimes Mr.

Money Mustache is like their first point of entry. And so it was things like that and Mad Scientist, that podcast, where I started to realize what was possible when it came to just even working a traditional job and saving and investing. So after being inspired by many podcasts and blogs, so on my commute now, I started to listen to tons of podcasts. I think that's where I first, I heard your interview. I forgot with who, but I heard an interview. I didn't know who either. Yeah. And you were at the, you had just quit your job and talked about doing this full time. And I was like, wow, like, I didn't know that was really possible. So I started to realize the

possibilities after seeing what other people were doing, listening to it in my car. So my car essentially became a learning environment. It was like my school. And that's what I did. And Journey to Launch, which was the name of the blog at first, now the podcast and brand, was really to chronicle my personal journey to reach financial independence. I was going to share what I was going to do to retire early or reach financial independence by 40 years old. And that's kind of like how the whole journey started. Yeah. Wow. I'm gonna have to find out what podcast it is because I really don't do podcasts on people's shows because for the longest time, I'm like, I don't know what to like. I'm not a very good. Well, I'm a pretty good guest, but I always like being on this side of that. Yeah. I forgot to look it up. I'm like, I don't know what to like, I'm not a very good, well, I'm a pretty good guess, but I always like being on this side of the, I forgot to, I have to look it up. I'm sure I can

find it. I'll look it up later. Yeah. I'm like, that's so fast. That's so crazy. Wow. So, so, so I'm so curious. Um, cause it sounded like you already had, I mean, even the fact that you had this idea early on in your life that you're like by 30, I don't want to work for someone else. I mean, that would have never occurred to me. I was like, you know, with my family, everyone's an employee, like no one's self-employed. So I didn't even know that was something you could do. So honestly, when I quit my job, my parents were like, are you crazy? Are you sure? Like, it was like a big deal. Luckily, everything's worked out. Knock on wood right here. But yeah. And so that's, that's amazing that you you were already kind of

further ahead that you kind of had this idea and knew the possibilities, but you just didn't quite maybe know the recipe to get to where you wanted to go. Yeah, I would say one of my gifts in life kind of is, is that I've always been able to see possibilities where maybe other people don't like I was always that kid, like looking on, you know, where everyone else was like paying attention and doing what they were supposed to do, kind of quote unquote. I was like looking far off and dreaming about other things. And I saw that play out in my life. You know, I would say that this determination and belief that all things are possible does come from, I think, my mom, how she raised me, some parents, if you are a busy body or you are kind of a bold child, they try to squash that, especially in the culture I came from. I remember she used to say my grandmother used to look at me and be like, what are you going to do with her? She's so much. And I think at that point, my mom was just like, I'm going to let her be her. And so with that, I was exposed to like different things growing up. Like I did gymnastics, things that, you know, for a single mom, like it was hard for her to do, but she wanted to give me experiences. She wanted to show me another way of life. And so I just think those are the seeds that were planted that she told me literally and believe that I could do anything. And so I believe that. And so one of the things that I did in my early twenties, while I was about to graduate college,

was I put down for my first place to live in New York City. And again, people are always like, well, how did you even know to do that or think like that? And I'm just like, I just remember like seeing other people doing it and they were older in my neighborhood and it just inspired me that I could do it too. I saw my grandmother who actually came here also with nothing to this country buy something. And I didn't come from a family of entrepreneurs. So yeah, I just think it's the way I think now. And I think what continues to fuel me forward. Yeah, that must be kind of difficult when you're not surrounded by people who are on a similar journey. But I mean, I guess that was sort of me too. I mean, when I got into personal finance, no one else that I knew personally. And that's kind of how you make friends through the internet. Yeah. Right. To kind of be part of that kind of online community of, you know, people that are kind of maybe doing similar things than you or have different or the similar journeys, which is fascinating. So I know you

originally started the blog documenting your journey. It's obviously kind of exploded into more helping others kind of on their journeys, which is so cool. And you know, of course, you have your podcast as well, and all these other amazing things. When was there that shift of you because I also did that, which is funny, like, that shift of like, talking about yourself to then talking to other people and educating other people. And so they can kind of maybe try to replicate, you know, some of your steps. Yeah. So when I first started, I was like, you know, more low key, like I would share my story, but not really much about like my personal life or my face, or I was kind of like behind the quotes on Instagram, you know, like just posting quotes.

And then I realized as I started to open up and become more vulnerable in a sense and share more, people started to say, okay, not only like, is that cool, but how did you do that? And so I saw an opportunity, especially after seeing people like you. I remember looking at people in the personal finance space that were doing this full time and thinking to myself, if they could do it, why can't I do this? That's literally why I quit my job. I'm like, if that person could do it, I could do it. But it's so great. It's so wonderful now, because I find that I'm that kind of thing for people now. They'll say, well, you're doing this.

I feel like I can do it too. And it's like, yeah, you can. So it changed when people started to ask me for advice or they want inspiration. And again, I saw these other bloggers, podcasters doing it. And I said, why not me? If they could do this, I can do it too. Yeah. And why not you? and look at you now you've got like two million downloads on your podcast like damn yeah it's amazing and I know yeah you've got so many things going on I want to kind of talk about it definitely seems like there was a big shift like honestly I follow you on Instagram and whenever I see your post I'm like oh my gosh it seems like she's building an empire maybe maybe that like that's what it looks like to me oh my

gosh yeah let me tell you something and you know and it's so crazy because I wish that you guys like like I love that that that's the perception and that's what I'm that's what I'm you know that's what I'm aiming for that's what I'm doing but literally it's like it's not it's chaos it's a hot mess um in terms of just life and I want people to understand that, like they might see, um, you know, the, the feed, the Instagram feed, or even the podcast, they hear me on the podcast and they're just like, Oh, I don't know how I could do that. You, you know, you sound so comfortable. And I'm like, uh, I'm not, I still get nervous doing solo episodes. I still slip up. I still am overwhelmed. You know, I still sometimes wake up and I'm just like, what am I doing? Like,

this is too much. And so I just want people to know, like, I don't want to say the cliche, if I could do it, anyone can, but that I am definitely far from perfect. And I'm literally just winging this as I go. Like, I'm literally learning as I go. Yeah, I tell that to people all the time. They're like, oh, wow, you're so comfortable doing this. Like, well, number one, it's like, I've been doing this for a while. So everything gets easier with time with time right like everything's scary as hell I will not even listen to the first season of my podcast because I don't even know who that girl is and she really didn't know a lot yeah but it's just like you do something more and you just your practice makes kind of perfect right you just keep going that's the thing consistency and persistency I say is the thing

yeah no absolutely but you so you know, I know in recent maybe months or so, you kind of did a bit of a rebrand, new website, course, all these really exciting things. Tell me a little bit about that. Because again, that seemed like a big shift to to kind of, you know, leveling up your your business. And, you know, again, the perception on my end, I'm like, wow, she's really doing a lot. Like, does she have like a huge team behind her? Like, does she have a corporation? Like, that is what it is. Yeah, well, you know, it's so I don't I mean, I have about I have no full time employees. One day, you're kidding me. No, I don't have any,

but I do have help. So I do have. So okay, To go back my website, you know, I had the craziest looking website, you know, to be fair to myself, like I did it and I created it with a template years ago. Yeah. Like with a template years ago. And at first it was cool. And then even I started to like, I hated it. Like I hated sending people there. I was like, this is so not a good website, but I also operated from the point of, you know, you'll change it when you need to. And I always wanted to be this way that at the end of the day, the substance, the actual what I was putting out was valuable. Of course, how it looks is important, but really the content had to be on point. The impact had to be there. And so I just chugged along as long as I could with that really bad website. And, you know, an email last year prompted me to like kick it in gear. I saw that. That was a really harsh email. And I've gotten some of those emails and you're like, excuse you. But, you know, here's the thing. So yes. And again, I think I, I have an ability and I think people who are able to do

this get, can, can see through like an ego response. So like the, so the email people are like, what email? So the emails, um, someone wrote me and they was just like, your website is horrible. Like if no one's told you it's because they just gave up, you know, like I want you to win. And I'm just like, oh my goodness. Like this person came for like, buy like my wig. Like they just like, we're just like on some, but he was right. Like, you know, it's not like someone said that about this new website. Right. Then I'm like, okay, now you're just hating.

You could have said it nicer though. But honestly, it was like one of those things where I knew deep down that he was right. And I knew I was getting to that point in my business. You know, I was getting like more brand partnerships. Like I knew people were coming to this website and it did not reflect what journey to launch was and what I was. And so it did prompt me. So I looked past kind of like the tone of it. Yes. And I was just like, you know what? He's right. I need to get a new website. So I didn't respond because I was like, I don't want to encourage a back and forth or behavior like that. But it did prompt me to get a website and rebrand. And that's the other thing is that

I've changed the colors, the look, even the podcast cover art, that has changed over time. And sometimes you get stuck on it needs to be perfect right away. And I'm here to tell you, like, even what I have now, that's not going to be it forever. Like, I'm always open to change and evolving. And so I feel like this is just the next evolution of Journey to Launch. And I'm so glad though, like it happened during this time. Yeah, no, totally. And I think your brand is just like so well you know organized and nice i'm curious for people too that um are curious about like how does that actually work like you kind of mentioned like it's it's just you you do kind of have some people that help you

out and stuff but like for things like when you decided to rebrand how did that go about did you kind of create this is what i want and then got someone to like build your website or or help you create this brand how that all kind of work out yeah so I'll say like in terms of team I have someone who helps like with the podcast like scheduling guests and um doing all like on the operations work and kind of my assistant I call her my podcast producer Johanna and then I actually have my sister um she's helping me out and she helps with like social media and I give her all the labels, community management. And like, so they're not full time, you know, they're contractors and, you know, I pay them just like, you know, as much as I can for them to help. And then I do have a podcast editor. So that's like kind of like my core team in terms of helping me get things done. And then people like my website designer, like I got, it was a referral. Like

I saw her do work for someone else. And then I liked what she did. And I will say, that's why it did take me also a long time to get a website because I always was afraid that what if I go with this person and it's not what I want and then like, you know, I have to change it. And so I, I just like trying to, I just also followed my own advice and just knew that this wasn't the end all be all. Like I was going to get it as best as possible of what I wanted it to be and then figure it out the next step. And so that's kind of like what happened. It was just a referral with someone. And then, you know, it's a lot of back and forth too, because you also have to follow your gut.

I remember there was a couple of times in the process where she had some suggestions or she made changes. And I just was like, this doesn't feel right, you know, like in terms of color and vibe. And so I had to push back. And so I find that that is really important to like, even though you'll have people helping you, you still have to make the final decisions on things because it's your brand, you're representing yourself through this and vice versa. Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that when you are running your own business, especially when you're like the only full time employee that you really have to make all of those key decisions. And that's like when you think about that's like a lot. So it's like you're a podcaster, you're a blogger, you know, have social media, but then also you have

to take care of like the logo and the colors and the branding and you kind of have to make all those final decisions. Well, that's the thing too, right? Like sometimes I ask myself, like, why am I so busy? Like, this is kind of wild that like, we always have like something crazy going on, whether it's just like trying to prepare for a launch for my membership or the course or working with the brands. Like, I just feel like it is always something. And so, yes, you're wearing multiple hats.

And I do believe like, so what got me here won't get me there. And I think that's true for a lot of people. And so I've had to also let go of doing a lot of things. Like I used to edit the podcast in the beginning myself. I used to do it with social media myself. I used to listen to each podcast episode before it went out. I don't have the time to do that, like to make sure, which is scary, right? Because I'm just like, what if someone else listening to it misses this? And there's like a crazy mistake. And so to get to this point that I am, I had to really let go of control, trust other people, pay other people, invest in programs and courses to learn things. And I know to get to the next level, like I'm going to have to do,

continue to do the same at a higher level. And so it's just realizing that it's always going to be a step out of your comfort zone to get you to where you want to be. Yeah, that sounds exactly like what I need. I'm starting to focus on this year because I still... Sometimes I hire contractors. Actually, sometimes I get my sister to help me, which is funny. I'm like, oh man, I know so many other people in the personal finance space and they have their siblings help, which is actually funny. But'm like yeah it's hard to let go I still to this day edit my own show and part of that isn't because I can't really you know afford to hire someone it's it's it's one of those things you're like it's my baby though you know and I've been doing it for so long and I'm like you know what you need to let this go because you need to spend your time more wisely on

something else but it's hard to let go of those things. No, it is. But I will tell you this right now, Jessica, if I did not let go of podcast editing, like I wouldn't have as many downloads as I have now. And I still am holding on to things that I don't need to. And I know if I let go, I could grow more. And so it's really putting the process in place. You can still you can still maybe check things. So, you know, even if you have someone else edit, you know, have someone. So one of the things that I do have is like, I have my editor listen to it, but then my sister listens to it. And then Johanna will sometimes listen to it. So even though it's not me, and again, that's paying people, right?

They're hours to like help you still, but my hours are better spent. Like I'd be up until 1am. If you, everything that you see, if I did that on my own, there's spent like i'd be up until 1 a.m if you everything that you see if i did that on my own there's no way i'd be able to work on the higher thought and forward moving projects that that can help yeah all right i've got some work to do i think also part of it is i mean part of the reason I got into personal finance is because I'm cheap. So just let go and just like, girl, just like hire somebody to help you. That is the great conundrum of people in this space, in the personal finance space. I see it. And while I love most of you guys, sometimes I want to unfollow and mute everyone in the

personal finance space, I would say. One, because it comes, becomes an echo chamber. Like, because I support, and I want to support you guys, just like you support me. But then it's just like, all I see are posts about budgeting and, you know, the same quotes sometimes. And I'm just like, then it doesn't make me want to put things out. Cause I'm like, I just, there's a million posts on budgeting. Why do I need to put a post on budgeting up? And then my audience is just like, girl, I'm not following all these people. I'm following you.

Right. So one, it skews like your creativity and what you want to do, because I see it all the time. I think everyone sees it. And that's not the case too, because I do see that there is, and I don't want to put everyone in this boat, but there's a very, um, it could be like a, just a scarcity mindset within the space because it's all about saving money and cutting back. And while that works in some areas, like, and if you want to live in within like a certain space,

that's fine. But honestly, I, it's investing and, and putting money out and saving on time. Like those are the things that I'm more interested in. And so sometimes when I see people, even like, you know, Twitter, I think it's like, if I see a lot of people like shaming people for selling things. Oh, people are so, yeah, I mean. But in the personal finance space. So it's not like regular, it's not like not, you know, it's not like people who like follow us and who are not in the personal finance space. I can get maybe why that's like, wait, what's going on? Like they can be a little confused, but I also get, I'm always like, oh my gosh, when I see other personal finance people, like shaming people for selling things, I'm just like, that to me, kind of, I'm just like,

I can't like, it just doesn't make sense because here you are talking about money and abundance or maybe not. And then it's like, but you have a problem with the way capital works. Like if this is, how do you think that we're able to do this? Like, and make money and do this full time. We need to like, we need to sell something and or partner with other people, whether that's companies. Yeah. So don't get mad that that's how I'm making my living when I'm providing such content, valuable content. And a lot of it is free.

So 100%. I mean, that's been an issue I've dealt with for years. Because I feel like I was a quote unquote, influencer before that was a term not that it was like making a ton of money, but you just like, you know, first to start with like Google ads on your website, and then like sponsored blog posts and stuff like that. And and this is going back maybe six years now. I remember when I started doing that. I'm like, this is great, because I spent so many hours like free hours on this. And now I finally get kind of, you know, monetized it get some some money. So it's great. I'm like, this is great, because I spent so many hours, like free hours on this. And now I

finally get kind of, you know, monetized it, get some some money. So it's great. I'm like, not just breaking even or whatever, I'm making some money. And there's definitely some people in the sphere that were just super shaming and be like, how dare you make money, you should be giving this, you know, information or advice for free, which when you think about any other industry, that would be ludicrous, right? You're like, that's crazy. So why do we have this? You know, and I think part of it, that's other people's personal projections. They're doing, you know, that's something about them. They're projecting onto you. But it's like, if I listen to those people and that advice be like, oh, you're right.

I'm a money grubber because I'm trying to monetize my podcast. I wouldn't be here today. And where are they? Honestly, not as far ahead as I am. So we need to kind of let go. And also, I just don't understand. I mean, there's just so much judgment around money in general. So to see that in the personal finance content creator space is really disheartening. If someone were to see that, they'd probably be like, oh, I don't even want to get in there. I don't even want to start studying this and bettering my financial life. No, thank you. Yeah. And the thing too, is like, there's so many creators and there are people who do things and have courses and programs that are free. And so not everyone is going to be for everybody. And so I feel like I can always direct people and say, okay, you can afford something that I'm putting out. That's a paid

program here. Here are like five people I know right now that are giving their stuff away and it's pretty good. So, you know, I just feel like there is a wide variety of people that you can go to for help. It depends on maybe who you connect with, who you want to support. You know, not everyone is for everybody. And I just think it, it's just something that we just have to be also why you can't be swayed by other people's opinions. You really have to sometimes have your just, you know, your blinders on in not just in this space, but in general, because people will always have an opinion. But as long as you are doing your best to give value to give good value, and you know, like you get results, then you're going to do what you need to do. I think that's the key thing. And the key term

to his opinion, I think a lot of people, well, A, they put out their opinions, but they wrap it up as if it's fact, like this is advice or fact. And it's sometimes hard to discern, wait, is this their opinion or is this some good advice that I should be taking? And it's hard to kind of, I think, discern what's, is it, is it not? Like recently I landed on someone's blog. I was researching a certain topic. And I read their blog post was a few years old, to be fair, but still, and the tone of it was

it literally actually shocked me because I think also I've kind of curated who I follow on social media and stuff. And so I like to follow people who aren't judgmental, and are like open to understanding that people have different situations and all these different things. But this one was very coming from a very, I feel like siloed position where this worked for them. And if you're not doing it, you're an idiot. And they literally kind of, uh, kind of worded it in their blog posts that if you, um, don't have like the discipline to do this, this, and this, then you don't deserve to become financially independent. And I'm like, what am I reading? And it could be just also like my

perspective as, you know, someone who I started, you know, as just a content creator, and then I studied to become a financial counselor, because I wanted to work with people one on one that definitely changed my, my tone and my perspective, because it is all about like, you cannot judge when you're helping someone. It's not about giving your, you know, kind of like, well, this is what I think it's really about. How can I help them? How can I give them the tools they need to help them solve their problem? It's really trying to be objective. And I feel like, yeah, there's certain people in the space that I'm like, okay, so you just haven't learned that lesson. That understanding there's different people in the world, and'm like, okay, so you just haven't learned that lesson yet. Understanding there's different people in the world and that's okay that they do things

differently. And the people that I even... I'm thinking about that do the things for free now, they started having to charge people. They're able to give it away for free because they're partnering with companies. So either way, they're getting paid. That's the thing. Whether it is they're monetizing their audience because of the size of it and they're working with brands, or they're selling a valuable product that people are willing to pay. I just think, and so I think one of the things that was really important to me as I started to grow

was I wanted to be in congruence with my audience. So here I am on the podcast telling them to ask for more, know their worth and not be a martyr, especially like as a woman and just in general. And then for me to still be stuck in this, well, I can't ask anyone to pay me. I should do it for free. So I should encourage all my audience to be financially independent and wealthy, but here I am struggling with my three kids and mortgage and I shouldn't be happy living a life. And so- That doesn't make sense.

No. And I was like, I don't think that, first of all, that wouldn't, then I would have to quit. If I can't make Journey to Launch work, there is no more journey to launch. And then how many other people will be impacted by that? So I just yeah, I just think it's an evolution. And you really just have to be congruent with how you feel about money. And then like what you're actually doing yourself to earn and how you talk about it, because sometimes it's not it's not matched. But yeah, I think that the reason that I really like, you know, actually following you, like, there's only like a few people I actually still it's not it's not matched but yeah i i think that the reason that i really like you know actually following you like there's only like a few people i actually still at the you were like content

creators that i actually like i actually like following on instagram because instagram still is like well um but i think it's just like your messaging especially around fi like the the fire community again it's going back to that idea there's a lot of people with strong opinions and i feel like it can be kind of exclusive and like, I don't even feel welcomed quite honestly. And so I like your messaging because it really does feel like this is for everybody. And you're just like such a welcoming voice. And I know that's what you're trying to do with all the content you create and your course. I want to kind of shift and talk a little bit about what are some key things that

you want to really teach people? I know like you're still currently on your like fi journey you're not or are have you reached your i'm still on the journey which I think is exciting yeah honestly more exciting when you're on the journey yeah then they're like oh okay so you're just like sitting back and chair just chilling being rich um but uh so so uh I know you're on the journey and then people could join you on their own journeys as you're on your journey, which is kind of a cool idea. What are some things, especially like, you know, you now have this course specifically about this, which I think is so exciting. What do you teach people? What are some things that you're like, these are some core things that people need to know. And you teach it in obviously such a unique way. What are some of

the things that people can maybe look forward to if they want to check that out? Yeah. So one of the things, so my Map Your Path to FI course, in general, my whole content, this whole idea of financial independence can seem off-putting. And I can totally see why, because it's this idea that you have all the money you'll ever need and you don't have to work again, which sounds great. And I think the way it's approached, well, at least when I originally came into the space, it was kind of like an all or nothing game where you'd have the work. And that's what I was kind of doing where you're working, you're saving as much as possible, you're saving and investing. And for some people that's possible, right? Depending on their

situation and their income and that's fine. And for some people, depending on how much debt they have, their mindset, just all the things, it's not just, oh, just save as much as you can and you're good. It's literally a journey. And so I break down the journey of financial independence in five stages. And so through the course or just through my content, I talk about that. Okay, first stage, you're just trying to be financially stable. You're just trying to come out of the red every month and be able to pay your bills, right? There's some people who are just like maybe listening to this now and they're, they just need to like create a budget and a plan so that they can just live on a month to month basis. The second stage is that, that

debt payoff stage. I call it the cadet stage. So I do have like titles for them in my content. I know. I really like it actually. I like all the titles. That's so clever. The cadet stage is about paying off debt, right? So there are some people right now in that debt payoff journey, and it could take months or years to do that. Third stage, so after you pay off most of your consumer debt, you can go to the next stage. I call it like the aviator stage, the financially secure stage, where you are basically like now accumulating assets because you paid off most of your debt. So now the money that is coming in, you know, you can put it towards your investing and saving and all these goals that you have. And then the fourth step, which is a step I'm in, I call it the commander stage is where you can reach a stage of work flexibility,

which means it's not that you have enough where you never have to work again, but you're in a really good place because you can take a break from your job. You can start a business. You can, you have the option to choose what you want to do, which I do believe everyone can get to. And then the final stage is financial independence, where you have now accumulated, you know, as much as you need or income streams that you need to sustain yourself and you don't have to work actively. And so being myself in stage four, you know, I do like the course, I help people map out like currently where they are. So identifying where they are through those five levels and how they're going to move throughout the stages. Like, and it's going to take, it's going to look different for everyone. Everyone has different starting points, income, debt, mindset. And so working to create a plan through this 10 stepstep framework to help them map it out.

So how do I get from maybe being $30,000 in debt to setting a goal of reaching complete financial independence? What does that look like? What if I want to have kids? What if I want to start a business? How does that factor in the journey? Does that delay the journey? Does it accelerate it? And so we kind of go through all that within the framework because it's literally the framework

I used when I was thinking about quitting my own job and taking this risk of, you know, when I first started to tell you, I said to myself, okay, I'm going to reach financial independence by 40. I'm now, oh my gosh, I'm 38 now. It's kind of crazy. It's coming up. But so quitting my job, if I stayed in my job, my corporate job, I would have been able to reach that goal because as much as we were making as a couple, my husband's is a teacher. He still works. And so we would have been able to, but not with all the other things happening, like Journey to Launch, the kids. Now I have three kids, by the way.

So I knew that it was more important to enjoy the journey, which is the biggest part for me, which is why it's called Journey to Launch, is because it's not about the money. It's about the quality of life. And so if reaching financial independence is going to take me longer because now I have more work flexibility and I can be around more for my kids and I have more control over my time, I will gladly take that over a faster route that I'm miserable in. And so it's like deciding that and helping people decide what that looks like. It was really important because it really helped me feel comfortable with taking the leap into entrepreneurship. Yeah, I think that's such a key thing is enjoying the journey. I mean, I've talked to so many people who've achieved fire.

And some of the regrets I've heard actually is like, I wish I took my time. I wish I didn't do this or didn't do that. Because, you know, what is the rush, right? Like, what is the rush? I mean, unless you I mean, lots of people, I guess, pursue fire because they hate their jobs and the rush is to get out. But also, I don't know, I just feel like life is so short. Why would you want to make a certain period of your life so miserable just so you can achieve FI? There's got to be a better way. It has to be a holistic approach. And you have to be concerned more about how you feel. Because if you think about why people want to reach financial independence, sometimes it's running away from something or avoiding something, avoiding the job they hate or people they don't want to be around and having security, which I totally get. I was in a job that I felt wasn't my truest calling. But I can promise

you this, if you don't work on the mindset and how you feel, even when you get those things, you still won't be happy because usually it's not the situation. Of course, some situations are toxic. You have to put yourself first and really get out of it. But what I've learned is that you have to find a way to appreciate what you currently have to enjoy. And I don't want to say enjoy the struggle, like make it like, you know, something that's not, you know, something you enjoy, but understanding that you can find freedom today. So I'm not financially independent, but I have a, I have a level of freedom I never could have expected by starting. And so one of the things I tell people when they're first hearing about financial independence is that, yes, it may take

a long time depending on your starting point, but it doesn't mean you have to wait to enjoy your life. You can create a balanced approach because quite honestly, like you said, life is short. And to me, there's no difference in like stressing yourself out and not being happy for 10 years trying to save as much money as possible if that's not what you enjoy doing versus working until 65 in a job you hate. Like I just think nothing is promised. And so let's find ways today from where you are to free up your energy, your joy, so that you can start living a life right now today that feels free. Okay. But now I know we're kind of hitting close to the 40-minute mark. So before I let you go,

and this is kind of a question I answer anyone who's pursuing FIRE or have already achieved it, it seems like everyone sort of has their own definition or even strategy to get to FI. Like, what does that mean for you? Like, I know there's lots of different calculations you can do, but what when you were kind of learning about it and created your own kind of roadmap, what did you know, reaching your FI number? What did that mean? And how just in general kind of terms? How would one get to that? Right? Like the definition when I first defined it? Yeah. Like some people were like, well, it's, you know, 25 times this or something like that.

Yeah. That's also a good, because it's, you can define it any way you want. I know people might say, no, it has to be this way. But when I was thinking about it, when I talked about reaching financial independence by 40, it was being able to quit my job and me not having to work again. But I knew that wasn't the case. I always wanted to work. It was just me being able to walk away from that corporate job and not be concerned about if we were able to pay our mortgage because we had investments and income that could cover that. And I will say, so again, depends on your situation. I have a husband that still wanted to keep his job. So our journey would

have looked different if he was also like, well, we're all going to quit at 40. Then our goals would have looked different, but it had to come to, okay. So in my definition, it was like having the mortgage paid off. So it was like the biggest chunk of our expense gone. It was having a sizable amount saved and invested up. So that way we would never have to invest in that portfolio again. It was having a sizable amount saved and invested up. So that way we would never have to invest in that portfolio again. It would just like grow on autopilot and then having other streams of income, whether through real estate or other investments, and then my husband's income. So that's what it looked like for us. Cause one, he still wanted to work. And that was like, he's like, I could never just not, not do what I'm doing. Right. He loves being a teacher.

He loves it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think for people, you have to look at your situation, right? You have to look at like who else is involved in this journey? What are their goals? Because that was a big part of it. Even leaving my job was a big risk because I had the, you know, my, my, my salary was higher. It was more than half of the income, like his income alone does not cover all of our expenses. And so for us to be able to make that leap for me to leave my job, we had to save up to do that. We had to plan that out. And so again, I feel like the whole point of me wanting to reach financial independence by 40 was to kind of live the life I'm living now. And I, you know, and it's, it's, this is to me, what I'm trying to show people is that if you just start the debt

payoff phase of it, the mindset phase of it, all this, you will unlock more options as you go. It's inevitable. Cool. That's awesome. Yeah. And I think that's so true. A lot of people, again, I've talked to a lot of people and some, they have very rigid views of things, but honestly that just doesn't work for, I mean, I talk to people all day long, you know, people don't work with rigid, they need some flexibility and everyone's situation is different. So I think that's really, really important for people to kind of get a reminder. It just feels more possible, doesn't it? Yeah. But even the numbers itself, like I know of people who have like enough to be technically financially independent and it, doesn't it? Yeah, but even the numbers itself, like I know of people who have like enough to be technically financially independent

and it still doesn't feel secure or enough, you know? And so again, the numbers are important, but it's not to the point where you have it and you're good to go. Like all your problems are solved, you know, quit your job and live your life. Because even if we reached our number right now, it's not that I would just quit everything

and journey to launch, you know? Like maybe I'd, it's not that I would just quit everything and journey to launch. Maybe I'd change a few things that I'm doing, but I want to live. My goal is to create a life for myself that I enjoy, whether I have enough money or not. So even if I have all the money in the world, I'm still choosing to do what I do now. That, to me, is freedom. Right. Well, that's the thing. It's about freedom and to do whatever the heck you want. Not about this. Like, because again, like the fire community can be very opinionated about like, no, you're not allowed to, you know, work or have any new income coming in. It's like, why not? Why not? Especially if you like doing what you're doing. Like me and my husband talk about, you know, financial independence, you know, a little bit. I'm like, honestly, though, like, I don't think we do anything differently than right now. He's doing his dream job being a self employed audio mixer. So he's working with bands.

It's his dream job. He wanted to do that in high school. And so he's like, okay, I'd probably just still do this. And like me, I'm like, I never thought I'd run my own business and I'm having a ball. So I think nothing would change. Maybe we'd live in a better, you know, outside of the city. I don't know. But, but also what's cool about that is like, you're already enjoying like what you guys do full time. And then my thing too, is like, why not though? Like just still be intentionally on the journey, kind of like running kind of like a parallel of it. Like you're living your life. We're doing what you do, but on the parallel, you're also keeping track and seeing. So that way, if things change for you guys, if you do want to take a break, you have the capacity to do that. Like you're setting yourself up for that.

Absolutely. Well, it was such a joy talking to you. Where can people find more information about you and your course, all of your amazing resources? Yeah. So you can find me wherever you listen to this podcast, Journey to Launch. You can also go to journeytolaunch.com to check out the new website. I even have a quiz if you want to find out where you are on the stage of the journey or stages and then like next steps for you. That's journeytolaunch.com slash quiz. And then I'm at journeytolaunch on all social media, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. I mostly kind of hang out on Instagram. You're good at it. Well, thank you again for joining me. It was a pleasure having you on the show. Thanks, Jessica, for having me. And that was episode 275 with Jamila Soufrant. You can

find her at journeytolaunch.com and follow her on Twitter and Instagram at journeytolaunch. I mean, very easy to find her. Not like this girl who has a different handle for every social media account, because I think Jessica Morehouse was honestly taken like that is my that's my story. And I'm sticking to it. But yeah, anyways, but as she mentioned, she has a course, you can find that information about her course about you know about financial independence and how to get started on our website, journeytolaunch.com. She also has a jumpstart guide you can download or check out at journeytolaunch.com slash jumpstart. I will include all these amazing

nuggets and resources and other things that we talked about in this episode in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 275. So make sure to check that out. Don't go away. I've got some things to share with you. But before I close out this episode, just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Aviv. Are you looking for a way to eat better without sacrificing a bunch of time to meal prep and cleaning your blender? Like me, because I absolutely hate cleaning my blender. Then you may want to try out Aviv's smoothies. These smoothies

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And that's E-V-I-V-E. And use code JessicaMorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Once again, visit JessicaMorehouse.com slash Aviv and use code JessicaMorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Once again, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash Aviv and use code jessicamorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Okay, things to share. Okay, okay. Well, like I mentioned in last week's episode, I can't really share the results of the exam I took because I'm pre-recording this. So you'll have to wait. I mean, I may have shared on my social media already, which is, hey, a little incentive to follow me on social media. You can follow me on Twitter at J-E-S-S-I underscore Morehouse. I am at Jessica I Morehouse on Instagram. Also, you can follow the More Money

podcast on both platforms as well. Instagram is at More Money podcast and Twitter is at More Money pod. So make sure to check those out. I also have a YouTube channel just under my name, Jessica Morehouse. But also I do have a separate YouTube channel if you want to listen to the podcast via YouTube, because I don't know why not. This is called the More Money Podcast. My YouTube channel, again, is just under my name, Jessica Morehouse. Lots of great videos on there. And yeah, check it out. Why not? Got nothing to lose. A couple of things I want to remind you of that you may not be aware of. So I have a free resource library that you can access on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash resources is where I have all of these different guides and some past webinars.

Actually, you can watch that. I think that's the only way you can access them. A couple of budget spreadsheets you can download for I think that's the only way you can access them. A couple budget spreadsheets you can download for free a lot of great stuff. Jessica morehouse.com slash resources. Also, don't forget, I am still doing my big book giveaway. If you go to Jessica morehouse.com slash contests, you can find all the books there. I have several other authors coming on the show, including next week. Actually, I feel like one, two, three, definitely three guests I have booked for the coming weeks are authors. So more books to add to the giveaway. So you know, why delay? Enter to win one of the books right now. And then continue

to enter for the books that will be there soon. Because why not? Okay, besides all that jazz, what else we got going on? Oh, right, my investing course. If you don't know already, I have my Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course open for enrollment. You can find more information and apply at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop is where you can kind of find it the easiest.

Basically, if you're looking for a course to help you get started with investing or change how you're investing, because honestly, a lot of the students who have taken the course, it's because they are in mutual funds with the bank, not super happy with it, and also the high fees of it, and want to either use a robo advisor or build their own ETF portfolio and learn how to rebalance them themselves. And also learn the foundations of investing. Like, what are some of the crazy terminology that sometimes I throw around on the podcast that you're like, what the hell are you talking about? Like Norbert's Gambit or dollar cost averaging or

oh, gosh, I can go on and on. There's like a whole library basically of terms. It's a whole different language, isn't it? But I break it down so you understand. And then not only do I have, you know, great video presentations, I've got video tutorials, worksheets, spreadsheets, everything you can think of to set you off on the right path to become a confident investor as a Canadian. So check that out. Okay, that's it. That's where I'm gonna leave it. That's where I'm gonna leave it. Thank you so so much for listening to this episode. I will be back here next Wednesday with a fresh new one. Take care. Have a good rest of your week. I hope you're doing okay. As we continue to navigate these uncertain, crazy times. Just remember, can't you? I am so excited for the idea of just 2022. Things have got to be more open and just

like, man, vacations and seeing my family again, like it is officially over a year since I've seen my family. My baby niece is no longer a baby. That's upsetting to me. She's walking and talking. You know, things, things will get better. Just hang in there. We're all hanging in there. So yeah. Anyways, not to leave it on a, you know, dark note, but here we are. Anyways, see you next week. Have a good week and good weekend. See you back this podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network