More Money Podcast - 276 Budgeting for Baby: How to Afford Starting a Family - Vivian Leung, Senior Principal of Taxation at CPA Canada

Episode Date: April 14, 2021

Have you ever wondered how much it really costs to have a baby? We’ve all heard having a kid can be expensive but what do those numbers actually look like? Whether you’re planning on having a baby in the near or distant future or like me, are curious about getting to know the nitty-gritty of how much raising a kid in Canada is then today’s episode should pique your interest.  Joining me on the podcast today is Vivian Leung, Senior Principal, Taxation at CPA Canada. Prior to her current role, Vivian was the Program Director for Tax Education where she was responsible for developing and implementing the strategic direction of CPA Canada income tax education. As quoted in Babies: How to Afford Your Bundle of Joy, Vivian shares from both personal and professional experience what it costs to have a family today. We dive into whether advice from our mothers holds up to today’s standards and what having a baby looks like on your finances in the short-term, like parental leave and long-term, like saving for post-secondary education. For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/276 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. This is episode 276 of the show. Today, we're talking babies. I'm just going to put that out there. We're talking babies because a lot of people are having babies, okay? A ton. I don't know about you, but I feel like everyone I know is having a baby, starting a family, probably because I'm in my mid 30s now. And that is what I was told was going to happen. And it's happening. And it's happening. And also, I know lots of listeners want to know the financial side of starting a family having kids having more kids. I mean, I actually know people who are having their second and third kids. Oh, gosh,

it just makes me feel old and makes me feel like I want to have a panic attack, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to. Everything's just fine because I have Vivian Lung on the show. So she is a senior principal of taxation at CPA Canada and co-wrote a book that I feel like any expectant parent should pick up. It is called Babies, How to Afford Your Bundle of joy. And I tell you, like, I really, really liked it. Not only is another short and sweet read just gets to the darn point to show you how expensive is it to actually have a family and what are some numbers we can actually wrap our heads around? How do we budget? How do we kind of estimate, you know, diapers and daycare and all the other costs that are involved, because I feel like sometimes it's a bit of a mystery and can be very confusing and stress inducing. So,

so much great stuff in the book. And we talked about in this episode, so you're going to learn a lot from this episode. And I know you're going to love it. Just a little bit about Vivian in case you want to know. So like I mentioned, she's a senior principal of taxation at CPA Canada. But prior, she was the program director for tax education, where she was responsible for developing and implementing the strategic direction of CPA Canada income tax education, creating or redesigning tax courses and programs and overseeing their delivery. And of course, she's a mother. So she has some personal knowledge about, you know, being a parent and raising kids. And that's why she was really excited to be part of this book and why she wanted to share some of

her expertise with you on the show. So I can't wait to have Vivian here and share the interview with you. Before we get to that interview, here's just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Aviv. So I don't know about you, but I have definitely gained some pandemic pounds. Luckily, this is a podcast, so you can't tell, but I can. I honestly use the stressfulness of the past year as an excuse to work out less and indulge in my favorite not-so-healthy foods. But it's a new year, and I am recommitting to a healthier lifestyle. And you and I both know the best way to lose weight and get fit is to eat better and move more. And one way to introduce more superfoods, plant-based proteins, and whole

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order. Once again, visit JESSICAMOREHOUSE.com slash Aviv and use code JESSICAMOREHOUSE10 to get $10 off your first order. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Vivian. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you, Jessica. It's nice to be here. Yeah. So glad this book exists because I've had so many conversations over the past few years, especially as I get older and everyone seems to be having babies. Yeah. A lot more conversations about babies and how to afford becoming a new parent or having that second child, third child down the road. And I don't, you know, there's really not too many specific resources on that subject. I mean, there't, you know, there's really not too many specific resources on

that subject. I mean, there's lots of blogs, there's some spreadsheets, I got one from my sister who had her child a few years ago now. And it's really nice to have a like go to resource that's nice and short, but actually really kind of answers all the key questions that people have about, you know, starting a family. So very excited that this book exists now. But before we really dive in, because I think there's some really, really good stuff in here, tell me a little bit about yourself, your role at CPA Canada. What do you do and how did you get involved in this book? Great. Yeah. So I'm currently at CPA Canada. I'm currently the senior principal of taxation.

And a lot of what I do is kind of educating our members with respect to tax policy, tax legislation. That's a big part of what we do here at CPA Canada. We also do a lot of advocacy and acting in the public interest, making sure, you know, if there are issues with tax administration or tax legislation that our members bring to our awareness, we work with the government to kind of raise those issues to them. So lots of education, lots of advocacy is kind of the key areas that we work in at CPA Canada. How I got involved in this book, so I am a CPA by background and I also have kids. So when our financial literacy team kind of came up with this concept for a book on how much it costs to raise a child in Canada these days and what you need to do to prepare yourself,

I was, you know, then they kind of approached me with the idea. I thought that's perfect. I mean, I went through having kids a number of years ago. My oldest now is 15 years. And when I first, you know, when we started talking about this book, I'm like, I totally wish we had something like that, or I had something like this available because kind of like you mentioned, there's a lot of information out there. You know, you can find anything on Google these days and even more so now um back when back then is information wasn't quite as readily available but having it all in one stop um i think there's you know there's a huge benefit to that because it is overwhelming there's so many things to think about when you're about to have a baby or you're thinking about having a baby that uh and finances are usually the last thing that people want to think about.

That having it in one spot, I think, made a lot of sense. And I think, I think it is a great resource. I think it's a great resource for parents, for parents to be. Definitely. Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, I'm not a mom, so I don't know. But, you know, having, you know, a sister just a few years older than me, and her having her first child has definitely been an, you know, a learning lesson for me. I've learned a lot through her experience. And yeah, I think a lot of, you know, new parents definitely focus more on, you know, you know, there's lots of books on how to parent, how to raise a child, you know, or just pregnancy in general, but the financial aspect, which is such an important element, because I feel like when you don't have a plan in place, that's when the anxiety and the stress, you know, because I think a lot of stress is surrounded by how are we going to afford this, especially if

it's maybe an unplanned pregnancy, and you're like, okay, we need to change our lives. How are we going to do this? It's so important to have, you know, a place that you know, or a book that really kind of goes through that I actually really appreciated that there's a lot of things that I remember talking to my sister about when she was kind of making her own, you know, kind of pregnancy budget. And then, you know, after she had her baby kind of budget and on all these things, and there's some great specifics in here, like questions that I get asked all the time, like, I don't know, you know, like how much does this cost? You know, because I think it's really difficult, especially depending on where you live in Canada or just, you know, a lot of the information we get is maybe from the US. And so it doesn't really relate to us in Canada because we have different pricings for things. How much do things cost? Exactly.

And also specifically too, like when you think about in general, if I have one child, how much will it cost me in like a lifetime? If I have two, how much will it cost me in a lifetime? Some of the numbers that are in the book were kind of scary. You know what? It's so true. I'm like, oh my gosh, what? That's like a house. Well, what do they say? I mean, this is probably the best form of birth control. Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. It is shocking, I think. And when you start really putting time to paper and thinking about the financial aspects of it, it does. It makes you pause and really makes you realize it's so important to plan child, you know, 15 years ago and, you know, just this book recently came out. Do you feel like that the cost of, you know, raising a child, having, you know, a child,. We're in such a materialistic state, society, and there's always more. There's always so many levels of quality or name brands and that, you know, it can really get out of hand. And, you know, I think, you know, kudos to the marketers. But they do make you. They do make you.

And when it comes to your child, you obviously want to get the best that you can afford. And they make you, you know, there is this whole kind of, the more you spend, the better it might be. So there's a lot of that. So I do think as the years go by, it does seem like it's even greater than when I was going through it. And certainly it was pretty bad at that point too. Yeah. It just seems like, especially in the early stages, you know, having a newborn, the amount of stuff you need is kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy. Like, I'm like, I feel like my mom didn't have all this stuff when she, you know, when we had my younger sister. And so, you know, we're six, I'm six years older than her. So I remember, uh, you know, raising my younger sister. And yeah, then my older sister

with all this stuff, but it seems all necessary. She was very, you know, careful and how she spent her money. And she had like a baby budget and all this stuff. But it seems like there's so much stuff. And like you said, you want to do the best you can, especially as a new parent, you're really going into this blind. You were like, I need all this stuff because I want to make sure I'm a good parent. But I guess also kind of the messaging of the book is you don't necessarily need everything or you don't need to buy everything new. There's lots of ways. And that's definitely something I've been having conversations with people who've, you know, maybe had kids for a while. It's like, you actually don't need to buy everything yourself. You take advantage of people wanting

to give you stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's funny. I remember when, you know, I was expecting my first, my mom said, you know, she would come with me to pick out the things from my registry to really, really, you know, honestly, when you first have the baby, you just need a crib and diapers. And there's so much. And of course, as an expecting parent, first time around, you're like, no, no, no. Well, things have changed, mom, since then, you know, we need this and that. But after you have that first child and you know,

it's much to your perspective changes after that. And when you have your second and more than that, you realize, yeah, you really, you really don't need much. And you know, going, using reusing things, going secondhand makes a whole lot of sense. A lot of these things have very limited lives because babies grow quickly into toddlers who grow quickly into. So, yeah. Yeah, they grow really quick. Well, you're just my niece.

It's just crazy just because, yeah, the last time I was able to go to Vancouver where they live was a year ago now because of, you know, COVID. And so, you know, what's great is, you know, with, you know, the Internet and everything, I great is you know with you know the internet and everything I can you know FaceTime get pictures all the time so I feel like I've been able to kind of see her grow but it's absolutely crazy that she's I'm like she's a toddler now she speaks she walks and like what she was a baby and it's it's funny because I remember thinking like oh I can't wait to buy her all these cute onesies so she would have grown out of them within months so it's one of those things you don't realize how quickly they grow up. Yeah, exactly. But I want to kind of dive into the topic of creating a baby budget. I think the idea may sound very intimidating. Again, there's lots of things

on your mind when you're preparing for baby. But what are the first kind of steps? Where are some things or where to start when you're creating your like specific budget for having a new newborn and and all that where do you start I mean that you've got some great stuff in here that says expenses that you may encounter which I think is so important and also not only that which I really appreciate actual like potential price points I think that's another thing people struggle with it's like how much like $60 to $100. It makes a big difference what potential prices that we're looking at. So kind of walk me through when you're gearing up to make this baby budget, where should you start? Yeah, I think it's really kind of starting off by itemizing everything that you think that you'll need when the baby arrives. And as you mentioned in our book, we do have kind of a starter list. It's probably beyond a starter list.

It probably lists every kind of possible thing that you may need when the baby arrives. I think the challenge is, you know, kind of like I mentioned before, outside of, you know, the crib and diapers in the beginning, and depending on how you might want to, you know, whether you're nursing or you're going to use baby formula, those are probably the necessities. Outside of that, it's quite discretionary. So I think it's going through kind of a list of, you know, here's everything, talk to your friends who've already had kids or your family members, get a sense of what you think you really need when the baby comes and then start doing some research. I think, you know, we are in the age where information is out there. You can price shop quite easily online.

That, I think it has a huge advantage because then you can get realistic sense of how much some of these items will really cost. I think after you lay out that, you know, initial budget, you know, then kind of challenge it and like, okay, some of out that, you know, initial budget, you know, then kind of challenge it and like, okay, some of these things, you know, a stroller, do I really need a brand new one? Is there a difference between this one that costs $2,000 versus this one that's $500? Really trying to understand what you're, where that money might be going, I think is really important, because I think that you'll see quickly, the numbers add up very fast. And, and, I think is really important because I think that you'll see quickly the numbers add up very fast. And then I think it's stepping back and maybe not getting caught up in, you know, I need brand new name brand of every single item. It's really kind of challenging.

What is a true necessity? Where is my, you know, where is there a true value in spending that money and where, you know, there could be some give. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess the other kind of element when crafting your budget is also really understanding what is our income going to be like. And I think that's another kind of aspect that people may not focus on as much as they should. And you really do discuss it well in the book about maternity leave and parental leave, how that works in Canada and the different kind of ways that you can kind of, you know, tweak that works in Canada and, uh, the different kind of ways that you can kind of, you know, tweak it, you know, for instance, like my sister and her husband, um, you know, she took some time off and then, uh, she went back to work and he took

some parental leave and, you know, they kind of created this system that worked for them. So she, she realized, yeah, I don't know if I want to be off the whole year. So let's kind of do back and forth and that worked for them. And I think a lot of people don't realize there's also kind of flexibility there. But you really bring it up well in the book in that it's important to understand if you are not self-employed, if you work for an employer, if you're going to get a top up and how that all works. I think a lot of people, you kind of share a story about how a person was about to go on mat leave and just ask, so how does this all work? And then you then you're surprised to find oh you're not going to get as much of a top up exactly if you even get one at all i think i think there might be a misconception that you know oh in

canada you get a year or a year and a half now uh potentially uh off and people may think that that means you're going to be fully paid but but that's far from the truth. You know, I think that a, the parental leave, what the government provides is very generous, but it's definitely not, depending on where you're at, it's 55% of what your income is. On top of that, you know, your employer, you know, some may assume that your employer is going to cover the balance of it. But in many situations, the employer does not need to provide any top up. They need to provide you with time off, but they don't need to necessarily pay you anything

during that time when you're away. So I think that's a huge thing that you need to factor into the whole budgeting process and also how you determine how long you take, who should take it between you and your partner. There's lots to think about. Yeah, because you're still, your bills are going to stay the same, but your income will decrease if there's no top up. And so it's really figuring out how are we going to make this work.

So maybe a good idea. I mean, obviously, it's important to understand, you know, what your employer will or will not, you know, provide when you're on leave in advance. But also, I guess, preparing financially is maybe saving up some money so you have that kind of extra cushion in case you need it. Yes, definitely. And your bills probably will actually go up, probably not stay the same after the baby comes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other element too is let's say you're like, okay, well, we can't maybe take as long off as we'd like, but then where are we going to put the baby? We need to put it somewhere. So we need to put it either in daycare or... I mean,

if you're lucky enough to have parents or grandparents who can take care of your child, that's awesome. But I know that's not possible for lots of people who may not live near family. And so I mean, I know when I talk to people about, you know, starting a family, that is like the biggest, I think, financial concern is how on earth are we going to afford daycare? It's just, it is so expensive. Absolutely crazy. So what do people do? Exactly. I think, you know, it's a little bit dated, but, you know, when we were kind of reading the book, $1,200 is kind of the national the national twelve hundred dollars a month is kind of the national average uh for daycare which is crazy that's it's a universe it's it's like a mortgage payment you know exactly exactly and so

you know a lot of people think about oh god save for a post-secondary but actually before you even get to that yeah let's figure out how this uh how day, how much that will cost and how that will work. And, you know, when you factor in, again, you talk about budgeting, you factor in, you know, if you do go back to work, what your income will be. But then you compare that against what the daycare costs. For some people, you might think, oh, it's just not worth it. The added stress, the less quality time you'll be able to spend with your child, all those things. It might not, at the end of the day, be worth it when you factor all those costs in. I know. And that's a hard decision as a woman to also, you know, reconcile with like,

if I go back to work, it'll actually be losing money or it'll be about the same. So maybe I should just stay home. But then there's also, of course, like, you know, talking to so much, so many women, and we just recently experienced International Women's Day. It's like, this takes a lot of women out of the workforce, which I know also you kind of discuss a little bit in the book just that just uh the or or maybe i was thinking about it but you know just like how we do talk a little bit about it yeah yeah the effect on on your career as a woman and and uh i know there's a specific term for it i don't know i can't remember it but i feel like i read it last night the family gap that's. The family gap?

That's it. The family gap. I've never heard that before, but that makes so much sense. Do you want to kind of explain what that is? Yeah. Well, basically, I think there's just some studies basically that showed that women who end up taking some time off to care for their child, you know, after having their baby and caring for their child for the year, there was a gap. There was, I'm trying to remember the stat now too,

but it was, I think it was about a 40% difference in terms of the salary gap when a woman takes time off. And it took, I think the study found that it took seven years for that woman who took time off compared to the woman who didn't take time off to catch up. And that's huge. And so it's a big decision. Yeah. Yeah. It's a huge like penalty and kind of like a negative consequence of starting a family, which is a beautiful thing, which is not fair because men do not have the same consequence. And yeah, it's a huge, I think, maybe deterrent or something that a lot of women I know think about, you know, if I want to start a family, which is a very natural thing to want to do, this, you know, is going to have a really big impact on my career, a career that I've worked so hard for that I went to, you know, university for to do this. It's kind of,

it's unfair. It's unfair. You know, what was interesting, though, to see, like, that study just looked at women. And, you know, I think now, thankfully, we're seeing more and more men take some parental leave. I wonder what that study, if they were to look at any parent who took time off, whether that gap would be as big for a male who took that time off versus the female where we saw it was 40%. So I think that would be interesting. But yeah, it's definitely, having a child is a big loaded question. There's so many things that you need to consider. I know. I know.

It's really, yeah, it's a hard thing to kind of reconcile with. But it is, hopefully this won't be something that we have to talk about in the next couple of decades. But I know it's going to take a while for, I mean, you know, gender equity and for this to get rid of this idea that, and I know this is just like an unconscious kind of bias thing that you just assume a woman who has kids, Oh, maybe we shouldn't give her that project. Or maybe she won't want to work late on this extra thing because she has a family. It's like, maybe don't assume, maybe ask her, you have no

idea what her situation is. And it's, it's the assumption that women with uh you know kids at home are less ambitious or or what have you it's it's we need to get rid of that exactly um so i know there's also a section on resps that's one of the things that um man it's like i'm so excited that my my sister started an resp you know on you know uh my niece's birthday i send a little check to be like put this in our RSP because we weren't, you know, fortunate enough to have RESPs. Our parents got married young and we're broke. So that wasn't something we got. So that's something that we definitely wanted to add when we all had kids. And it's such a great, beautiful thing. But there's also a lot of things to know about setting it up, how it all works. I think, I mean, I've been having a lot of conversations lately with parents who don't

actually know the different types of RESPs. I think lots of people don't realize there's different types. There's, you know, the group RESP through like a trust company. Then there's the kind of individual or the family plans. Those are called the self-directed RESPs. They're very different. And it's unfortunate because a lot of people go into maybe one and don't really realize what they got themselves into. Right. And that might be other options. Yeah. Yeah. What are some key

things people should know about setting up an RESP? I think first off, I mean, RESPs, I think it is such an amazing vehicle that the government has provided to Canadians and really is an incentive for parents to start saving for post-secondary education. Again, I think this is a little bit dated in terms of the survey, but I think that they projected the cost of post-secondary education, you know, about if you're a kid now, you know, in 2035, when this child goes to university or college, it's projected to be $80,000 for just tuition. And so that's a huge number. And that's, you know, if your child decides to go to, you know, somewhere out of town and needs to stay in residence, I think that number went up to 150,000. So it is,

it's probably the biggest thing you'll ever have to save for as a parent. So the government providing incentive to Canadians to do so, I think, is a great thing. How the RESP works is it's basically it's after-tax dollars that you would invest into it. And any growth within the RESP would be taxed when you withdraw that money. So, again, it's a little bit similar to TFSAs, if your listeners are familiar with that. But the monies, the funds do need to be used on kind of education, post-secondary education. Now, you mentioned there are different types. So first off, there's, I think you already mentioned the three main types of individual RESP, the family RESP, and the group RESP. The individual and family are somewhat similar. Individual is pretty straightforward and anyone can open it

and contribute to it. So, you know, it was a parent can open it, a grandparent, some very generous stranger, they can open it. And again, so that's fairly straightforward. Family RESP, you can have more than one beneficiary. Sorry, the beneficiary would be the child or children. So the individual, you would have one beneficiary. But in a family one, you could have more than one beneficiary. And those beneficiaries do need to be related to the contributor. But you can open up a family RESP for, you know, all your children.

And yeah, so that's the family plan. And yeah, the group RESP is different because I think a lot of people don't realize. So if you were to do the self-directed option, individual or family, you can go to the bank and open it up. You can open up a self-directed brokerage. You can use a robo-advisor. There's lots of different things that you can do self-directed. So there's lots of options. The group RESP is set up very differently. Right. That's right. And the group RESP, I guess it's kind of like maybe a mutual fund. Would that be the best comparison? It's like a pooled fund is what it's kind of. Exactly. Exactly. So there's a lot less flexibility with group RESP. Yeah. So I'd recommend lot less flexibility with a group RESP.

Yeah. So I'd recommend if anyone's listening and thinking about setting up an RESP, make sure to do your research on the different types so you really understand what you're getting yourself into. Because I've just had so many conversations of people who've signed up for group RESPs and they didn't fully understand what they got themselves into and they're very hard to get out of. So definitely take your time before jumping in and then starting to invest your money for that. So, you know, we've talked about, you know, starting a family, having your first baby, but obviously, you know, also as I get older, I bet I have so many friends are like they're on to number two or number three, which is makes me feel old. You're on to number three already? What? How is that happening? It's crazy. How does that affect things?

Obviously, like lots of people, you know, tell me it's like it's not as bad because sometimes you'll already have some of the stuff from the first baby. So it's not like starting from scratch. But obviously, it's more expensive because there's not just one child. There's two. Right. How does that kind of change your plans? Or how should that change maybe your budget? Yeah, I think again, you know, most people don't plan on having kids.

Most people don't figure out the finances before deciding. That's not the decision break. You know what I mean? Once you realize you're expecting that second or third child, I think, again, it's going through a very similar process. I think, you know, outlining what other incremental costs, now that you're going to be having number two or number three, will there be, certainly, as you mentioned, a lot of the kind of initial things that you get. Hopefully, you don't have to make those investments again,

you know, whether it's baby furniture or other baby equipment. But there's certain things where it's uh the true the true increment you know if it's child care uh yes double right that will double you know some daycare facilities might provide a discount for the second and third child but it's not those discounts speaking from personal experience yeah aren't really gonna they're helpful but obviously there it's it's still pretty close to double you're doubling the cost or tripling the cost, whatever child you're on. Similarly, post-secondary education, that will be at least double. So those big numbers, I think kind of thinking about what that will mean, how much you can put aside when we're talking about post-secondary education, okay, most people have a hard time if it's just one child splitting between retirement savings and savings for your child's education. Now, explain that three ways or four ways. It's really having a good sense of a good handle on how that will impact your annual budget. Yeah. And I guess, you know, other things to kind of consider that you talk

about in the book besides, you know, daycare and education expenses is you may need a new vehicle, you know, maybe your vehicle is just not big enough for the four of you, or you may need more space. I know lots of people when you just have one, that's easy to do. And maybe a two bedroom condo, maybe that's very difficult, especially as the kids grow older, to have two kids sharing one room in a condo as they get older. I mean, to be fair, I grew up in a very small rancher house with my, yeah, I have two sisters. And so I always shared a room up until, gosh, I don't know, 11 or it felt like forever. So I always had to share with my older or then my younger. So it's possible we had, you know,-bedroom little house. But it is those

things to consider. Like, okay, we've outgrown this space, so we need to move. And that's, I mean, depending on where you live. I live in Toronto. It's like, that could be an expensive thing to think about. A hundred percent. It's so true. Yeah. Or that's when you make the decision, okay, we need to leave the city finally. We've been priced out of the city. that's a big decision too yeah yeah gosh yeah i mean i don't have kids but reading this book does kind of make me a little like anxious about okay so if i were to have kids i mean at least i know where to start and i have you know lots of great uh info here and there's you know i really again appreciate that you include not just like checklists of kind of these are things you need, but also the price points.

I think that's really helpful for people to wrap their head around because when you're not a parent and you've never done this before, you have no idea how much things cost. It's actually kind of crazy how much some things cost. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. tried to do is kind of like almost a roadmap and the different phases of, you know, from planning to have a baby to being pregnant to what happens when or if you'd go back to work and, and, you know, how you should start, you know, saving for their potential post-secondary education. So we did try and lay out in those kind of stages. And I agree. I think there's a lot of sticker shock with it all for a lot of people well even just like you know around Christmas time I was looking for you know some things to get my niece and I'm just like I'm just

gonna get her a few things I want to spoil you know she's a baby she didn't care she's not she's like one she didn't know yeah um but you know just like even looking for like you know clothes and like little shoes I'm like there's some really cute little sneakers and I'm like those are like $60 like what what is going on so it can can add up fast, but you can definitely get into the whole, oh, but she's so cute. Yeah. And you know, fast forward when your niece is, you know, maybe closer to my kid's age, like kind of the preteen teen. And you know, when they were just kind of bombarded on social media with all the things they can get. And you know, I joked with another friend of mine whose kids similar age, you know, you look

at their wishlist, kids wishlist, you know, back in the day, it was like, I'd like a Barbie or a transformer. You know, now it's on all kids list, you know, it starts at a very young age, you know, top of the list. I'd like an iPad. And, and, and then an iPhone is number two. And then there's something under, you know, I'm like, no, you're not getting an iPad. You're six years old. Right? You're like, goodness, I don't even have an iPad. Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, along with all that, you know, we don't get too much into this in the book.

But the one thing I found as a parent now with kids in this cashless society is really teaching them the importance of money and the value of money. And, you know, there's lots of, I find it a little more challenging to teach them because they don't see cash. You know, when I grew up, cash was king. You know, my parents were very much, if you don't have the cash, you don't buy it. Whereas now they just see packages, especially during COVID,

magically appearing on our doorstep. And, you know, it's ensuring that they kind of understand what budgetingstep. And, you know, it's, it's ensuring that they kind of understand what budgeting means and what, you know, income earned versus expenses. Yeah, I was thinking about that. I'm like, I think it is a lot harder, because when I learned about cash, you know, I remember first, my mom, she had this bag of buttons, and that was to kind of represent coins and stuff. And then I'd see her physically use cash at like the grocery store and stuff. And then also, you know, sometimes I would get, you know, some, some, you know, little money or whatever to go to the corner store, get candy, you know, so we had, I had that as a reference point. Now,

all you see is like a tapping of the card or not even that you're online and there's kind of no concept. I'm curious, what do you do to kind of help educate your kids so they have a better understanding of finances, especially as they get older and like get into college and stuff like that? Yeah. Well, you know, I think I have a really recent example where my son decided, well, his best friend got a hoverboard. So of course, he wanted one as well. And he said to me, well, you know, mom, I know, you know, between some of the birthday money and Christmas money that I've saved up in the bank, I think I have enough. And, you know, I didn't want to. So I kind of took that as a bit of a, well, Brandon, you might have enough. That's, that's fine. But I don't want you buying the first thing that you see, you know, I want you to do some research. And so I said to him, I'm not saying no, but I'd like you to do a little business case. I want you to do your research. I want you to pick out what you think, you know, compare the different models that are out there. Tell me the price points. Tell me what it is, you know, what, what each one, what the features are of each one and

why the one that you select is, is, you know, kind of worth your while. And I think it was really great exercise in that, you know, he came back to me with an Excel spreadsheet, actually, I was quite surprised. Oh, I love that. He tracked everything. Here's a cost, you know, here's all the bells and whistles for each one. And here's my final decision. And I think just taking those kind of everyday moments to try to make them

meaningful moments. I think we do need to be a little more creative um as parents to to uh to get them to kind of really understand what the uh uh how they how they should be spending the money and uh where value might come from yeah i mean that's i guess the one of the good things about being in this digital age is actually easier now to teach them how to do price comparisons and to shop around for the best price and how to find some coupon codes and deals because that is something that you're going to take on and continue to use those skills when you're an adult. So that's actually great that you're like, well, let's not buy the first thing you see. Let's do some research and see what's the best product because you're going to be doing that for the rest of your life.

Exactly. And I do think our kids growing up in this age are very instant gratification, right? And it is so easy. You click, you know, they have those one-click purchases on Amazon. So I think making them pause and kind of reflect is really important. Yeah. Just teaching them if you shop around, you know, you can actually get more for your money, maybe get a hoverboard and something else if you do your research, which I guarantee your peers are not really doing yeah yeah exactly i think the other great thing maybe i'll just mention is you know the other thing we did for our son was uh you know he's a tv bank account for the longest time we never really gave him access to it and i'm finally like well let's put the app on his phone

so he can actually see see it yeah it's like your wallet, right? Exactly. Exactly. And you know, back in the day, I don't, this might be before your time, but we used to have the little bank books where you get, you know. Oh no, I had a bank book. Yep. I had a little RBC account with a little book. Yep. I remember that.

Exactly. And you would like see the, you know, the, the sense of interest added on, but it was motivating as a child to say, Oh, I got 25 cents this month for saving my money. And I think that so similarly, for the longest time, we didn't have to give that to access to my son, not for any reason, but we just didn't think of it. And then when we finally did, we could see that's kind of motivating his behavior. It has kind of motivated, it's not just this big black hole where his money goes into. Yeah. It's important to see it, even just adults. It's actually so important for you to not just go into your bank accounts once a month and be like, oh, what do I owe on my credit

cards? But to have maybe check them once a week or something or have a spreadsheet. I always recommend budget, net worth, all that kind of stuff. Seeing those numbers is actually motivating because you'll hopefully, especially with the net worth aspect. And that's basically the same. I mean, when you're a kid, you just have one bank account. This is the same thing. You're seeing those numbers go up every month. That's exciting. And I think that's kind of part of the reason I was so good. You know, I've been pretty good with my money always. And that's because, well, A, you know, my parents showed, you know, good examples. They did talk about, you know, buying things on sale and affordability and stuff like that so I was very conscious of that um so

so that was helpful but also I think yeah being able to kind of see that book or have a sense of how much do I have like I used to always have like a mental tally or sometimes just would refer to my book but yeah for me I never got an allowance but I definitely got like Christmas money and birthday money and it was very that was kind of like my little budget. I'm like, okay, this is how much I have. If I decide to make a purchase, then that means there's less that I have in the bank. And you know, sometimes it gives you that point of pride to know you're like, Ooh, I've got like $1,000 in the bank that I've saved up over years. That makes you feel pretty good. So yeah, no, that's, that's awesome. So lots of exciting things that I can eventually teach my baby niece

when she learns how to talk. She's a lucky niece then. I mean, is she? She may be like, oh, duh. But hey, I'll help her out when she's ready to learn how to read it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show and share this. I honestly really, I mean, I pretty much love all the books that CPA Canada comes out with because they're short, they're sweet, they're to the point, and they give you some really good information. And this is something easy that you can either get for yourself or get like kind of a great gift. I don't think it's like

an offensive gift to be like, here's a book on, you know, you're bad with money. It's like, no, this is just like, you know, some food for thought as you're just starting out. Cause I guarantee you, you know, if you're a new mother and, or, or you have friends that are, you know, starting families, what a great, interesting gift. Cause no one's probably thinking about, Oh, they probably have some questions about budgeting and all these kinds of things. People are probably just giving them baby clothes and stuff like that. So this is a different kind of way to say, Hey, I'm here for you. And this may be helpful for your future. Great. Yeah. we hope so. So yeah. So before I let you go, where can people find more information about this book,

more resources that you may want to share? I think definitely come to our website, cpacanada.ca. There's links on that website that will provide kind of where you can get this book and also kind of some other resources related to family as well as beyond that. So definitely encourage you to come to our website, cpacanada.ca. Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining me. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks so much, Jessica. And that was episode 276 with Vivian Lung from CPA Canada. Again, the book that we talk about that I highly recommend you grab if you are thinking of starting a family or thinking of adding to your family, or if you know someone who is having a

baby, get the book, Babies, How to Award Your Bundle of Joy. Honestly, I read it and I felt less scared about having family. Will I have one? I don't know. I don't know. I don't even know if I want a pet. You know what I mean? Like, that sounds like a big commitment. So a kid, you just cannot return those once you have them. So still on the fence, still figuring that out. Not that you asked, but and not that I need to share because it's my decision, but just just putting that out there. So I will include some links and some important resources that we talked about in this episode in this show notes for this episode, go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash 276. For that you can find the book on Amazon, you can find it maybe at your local bookstore. You can find it pretty much anywhere books are sold. You can also find it on CPA Canada. But again, I'll just include a quick link in the show notes for this episode so you can find it easy, peasy, lemon squeezy. So before I kind of share a few more details, and also I am giving away this book, I'll share some details on how you can win a copy. Just stick with me for a few seconds.

Just want to share a few words about our episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Aviv. Are you looking for a way to eat better without sacrificing a bunch of time to meal prep and cleaning your blender? Like me, because I absolutely hate cleaning my blender. Then you may want to try out Aviv's smoothies. These smoothies are superfood packed, certified organic, vegan, and all tested and approved by nutritionists. Not only that, they take just 30 seconds to make and are budget-conscious priced between $5 to $6 US per portion. Not only that, there are 14 flavors currently available, each boasting ingredients targeted for brain support, glowing skin, detoxification, and boosting energy, among other coveted benefits. If you're like me and are looking for a way to eat better this year, I'm not joking when I tell you I've gained a good 10

pounds since last March, which I'm currently working to shed, then try out Aviv smoothies, which are currently available in Canada and the USA. And to get a bit of a discount, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash Aviv and that's E-V-I-V-E and use code JessicaMorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Once again, visit JessicaMorehouse.com slash Aviv and use code JessicaMorehouse10 to get $10 off your first order. Okay, like I mentioned, I'm giving away this book. I'm giving away so many other books. Let's actually remind you and myself, I'm going to type this in, JessicaMorehouse.com slash contest. What books am I giving away? Just to remind you and myself going to type this in jessicamorehouse.com slash contest what books am i giving away just to remind you basically any book that has been featured on the show i'm giving

away so i'm giving away talk money to me covid edition by kelly keen the money plot by frederick kaufman broke millennial talks money by aaron lowry back to Oh my gosh, it's too little to read. I have to back it up. Back to Business by Nancy Jensen and Sarah Duenwald. Oh gosh, I am wearing glasses and it was too tiny for me to read this little picture. And Retirement Income for Life by Frederick Vittisi. And now of course, Babies, How to Afford Your Bundle of Joy. That is another book I'm giving away. Go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest to enter to win all of them. You're only going to win one, just telling you right now, but you can enter to win any or all of them or your favorite ones, whatever you want. And hopefully you'll be a lucky winner because I love giving away books. It makes me so happy because I know I'm giving you more

than just, you know, a typical prize from a contest. I'm giving you the best prize in the world, knowledge. Oh, that's so cheesy. But hey, that's me. I'm super cheeseball. Okay, other things to let you know about. Gosh, what else is going on? I'm sure some other I'm sure some things are going on. I just can't think of them right now. So yeah, I'll just kind of remind you of a few important details. So in case you don't know, I have a bunch of freebies that you can download for free, hence the word freebie. If you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash resources, you can check them out. Just go to jessicamorehouse.com, go to my website, check out all the stuff I've got on there, including my free resource library where I've got budget spreadsheets, I've got printables, I've got so many great things right there. And I'm working on a few extra secret things and

we'll see how they go. I also, of course, have my investing course, both building blueprint for Canadians. If you want to learn how to invest in a passive way and you're Canadian and you want to understand what the hell an ETF is or what the difference between an actively managed and an index mutual fund is, because yes, there's two different types of mutual funds, even though everyone just calls them mutual funds, it's very frustrating. If you want to understand what the hell Norbert's Gambit is and see a video tutorial showing you how to do it, if you want to see me actually show you how to build your own ETF portfolio using a discount brokerage, how to rebalance it yourself using my spreadsheet, how to get started building your wealth. I've got a course for you. Go to JessicaMoorhouse.com

slash shop. You can find more information about the course there and apply because yes, not everyone gets in. You have to apply. You have to go through me to make sure it's a good fit for you. And this is something that you actually want to dedicate some time to and get to it. Because the whole point of the course is to get you started investing. Or if you're currently investing, show you a specific way of doing it, which is passive investing and getting you going and started so you can build your wealth for the long term. Anyways, I'm in love with this course, obviously, because it's so exciting seeing the transformations of all my students. And it's only been open for a few, well, I guess, a few weeks, maybe two months

now. Gosh, time actually flies by, doesn't it? So yeah, so check that out, jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. If you have any questions, feel free to email me at Jessica. No, wait, how do you do an email? Jessica at jessic JessicaMorehouse.com. Hello. But I guess since I mentioned the at, I was thinking about my social handles. If you're not already, follow me on the gram at Jessica I Morehouse. I'm also on Twitter, Jessica. No, it's at J-E-S-S-I underscore Morehouse. And of course, you can follow the podcast specifically at More Money Pod on Twitter and at More Money podcast on Instagram. And of course, I am on YouTube and LinkedIn and everywhere. You know, don't add me on LinkedIn. Honestly, I have like hundreds of people that want to connect with me. And I'm like, I don't know you. And also like,

just follow me on Facebook. If you want to see what I'm kind of sharing on my LinkedIn, you know what I mean? Follow me on Instagram. It's way more interesting, I would have to say or Twitter. So yeah, anyways, that's all I've got to say for the time being. So thanks for listening. Next week, I'm going to reveal whether I passed that financial planning one exam or not. So hopefully I did. Me, like current, like present Jessica is hoping that future Jessica does pass this exam. So yeah, that's it for me. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back here next Wednesday with a fresh new episode. As always, have a good rest of your week. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.