More Money Podcast - 281 The Clever Girl's Path to Financial Empowerment - Bola Sokunbi, Founder of Clever Girl Finance, Author & Certified Financial Education Instructor

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

For this week’s episode, I have the pleasure of welcoming the founder of Clever Girl Finance, Bola Sokunbi. Clever Girl Finance is one of the largest financial education platforms in the U.S, which is centred around empowering women to achieve financial wellness and live life on their own terms. In this episode, topics range from the importance of women investing, to the need for the financial education space to hear more from minorities. As well as the founder of Clever Girl Finance, Bola is a Certified Financial Education Instructor (CFEI), finance expert, bestselling author, and speaker. Her third book Clever Girl Finance: The Side Hustle Guide comes out in June 2021.  Investing and financial advice have long been dominated by an older generation of men that tends to not account for the barriers that women face in their financial journey. Today’s episode highlights why that needs to change and why women need to prioritize their wealth-building journey. Bola also urges the financial community to move forward with more empathy. For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/281 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is episode 281 of the podcast, and I have a wonderful guest. I mean, I have about two-ish more months of this show. Actually, just to give you a little heads up, because typically I kind of wrap this season that really goes from winter to summer. I wrap it up, you know, the first week of June. Well, good news. I'm actually going to be running it a little bit longer because I just had so many great guests that said yes to me. And so I'm like, okay, I'm just going to extend the season because it's my podcast. I can do whatever I want. So we're actually going to be running until

early July. Very exciting. So one of those very exciting guests that I was able to get on the show is Bola Shakunbi, founder of Clever Girl Finance. So excited to have her on the show. So she's a certified financial education instructor, finance expert, bestselling author, speaker, and like I mentioned, a founder of Clever Girl Finance, which is a financial education platform and community for women to empower them to achieve financial wellness and live on their own terms, which obviously is all I'm all up in that that's that's me that is I love all of that. She's also the recent recipient of the 2021 Financial

Education Instructor of the Year Award from the National Council of Financial Educators. And of course, you can see her all the time on the media. She's on TV. She's always quoted in the media. I see her all the time. Also follow her on Instagram. She's awesome. And like I mentioned, she has her third book coming out in June called Clever Girl Finance, The Side Hustle Guide. You can pre-order now. I will link to it in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 281 to find all that info. But that's what we're going to be talking about. We're going to talk about her amazing journey into this kind of, she has like such a huge platform and huge brand, huge audience. It's actually kind of crazy. And how she was able to do that, especially being, you know, originally from Nigeria,

moving to the US and, you know, creating this amazing company, this business that is focused solely on empowering others through the world of personal finance, which I love. I love, love, love. And also, she's just a delight. So you're going to love this episode. But before I get to that interview with Bola, here's just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by VIP Kid. If you've been listening to my podcast since the very beginning, then you may already know that for me, starting a side hustle in my 20s was a literal game changer. It was the reason that I was able to save up an emergency fund, start investing, travel, and achieve so many other financial goals that would have been

very difficult if I relied solely on my salary. And in this weird time where many of us are still stuck at home or looking to find new ways to earn extra income, there's one side hustle I would have jumped at. Teaching students English online through VIPKID. VIPKID is a platform where people in the US and Canada can teach English as a second language to kids around the world. All you need is a bachelor's degree, at least two years experience teaching or working with children, and that could be anything from nannying to coaching or mentoring, even parenting, and eligibility to work in the United States or Canada. Not only that, you can expect to earn between $14 to $22 US per hour plus incentives,

and you have 100% flexible scheduling. That means you can work when you want, wherever you want. All you need is a strong Wi-Fi connection. To learn more about VIB Kid, which was named one of Glassdoor's top 10 best places to work in 2019 and 2020, and the number one company for remote jobs, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash VIP Kid. Once again, to learn more, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash VIP Kid, or check out the show notes for this episode. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of the more money podcast, Bola. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat

with you. You're so welcome. I feel like I've been following you forever. And so tell me, did you actually because I read somewhere that you started your blog in 2015. Is that right? Yes, I started Clever Girl Finance as a blog in 2015. That is correct. In August of 2015. I feel like you've been around longer or just shows how old I, you know, I'm just, you know, I looked at Mike, really? I feel ancient now. But it does seem like it does feel like forever ago.

Yeah, that's true. it does feel like a lifetime ago especially all the things you've been able to to do and grow is looking on your website and my gosh there's so so much for everybody that you know you got your blog you've got your youtube channel courses you know downloadable um you know resources um, podcasts, I mean, books, I mean, you got everything pretty much that anyone can probably want in terms of, you know, learning about finance and how to better themselves. I want to kind of first, before we kind of dive into some things, I find your story so fascinating, and so inspirational. Because I think a lot of people can probably relate to it. And also it makes a lot of sense why you really want to focus on educating women about money specifically, which I think, I mean, honestly, you know, I talk to people all the time.

You know, I got started about 10 years ago and money was not for women. Like no one really kind of put two and two together. Mainly maybe they talk about budgeting a little bit, but not things like side hustles or investing or anything like that. So it's great to see so much growth in this space, but still there's a lot of work to do. So it makes sense to me why you focus so much on educating women because of your own background and personal story. And a lot of that has to do with your mom. Do you want to kind of share a little bit about kind of that amazing story about how your mom kind of saved the day, I'd say, in the end when it came to like, financing your education, and I guess helping your dad because he had to retire early. Yeah, so my mom has been very instrumental in just,

you know, my journey just as a mom, I think as most mothers are or should be. And my mom's story is, you know, she got married very young. She was 19 years old. My dad was older and she had a high school diploma. She didn't have a college degree and she was just very limited in terms of what she could do at a time, at that time, career wise. And just looking around as she was getting older, looking at her friends, looking at certain circumstances that they were facing, she realized that she needed to give herself options financially because she was seeing her friends trying to leave bad relationships or unfortunately losing a spouse and just having no idea of the family finances, not being able to make their own

decisions and not really knowing what was going on. And so my mom just never wanted to find herself in that position. My parents have been married for like 50 years now, but just then she just didn't want to be in that space. So in her mid thirties, she went to college, took me to her college classes and got her undergrad degree, got her master's degree and started working and started running side hustles and started putting money aside. And she was able to start contributing to our family finances. And fast forward several years, it was time for me to go to college. My three older brothers had been to college abroad outside of Nigeria. And the reason for that was because there was just so much economic instability. It was taking the average college student who was going to college for four years

twice as long to finish because of strikes, not, you know, the professor's not getting paid. So my parents wanted to give us a better option. And so my dad, for him, education was something that he always prioritized, just given, you know, how he was raised and the opportunities education gave him. He started the first grade when he was 13 years old. So for him, education was a really, really big deal. So he did everything in his power,

even at the expense of his retirement, to fund my brother's education. And when it was my time to go, you know, he went through a series of not just financial issues, but also health issues. And he had to retire about 15 years earlier than planned. And in the grand scheme of somebody's retirement, that's a big deal. So my mom was like, well, I'm gonna try to support you. Let's see if we can supplement what I can support you with with student loans. But as an international student,

I was not able to qualify for any of those. And we didn't wanna burden any relatives with asking them to co-sign a loan given that they had also helped my brothers. So my mom said, you know, I'm going to, at the expense of the things I want to do, I'm going to help you go to college, let's find some scholarships, which I found a partial scholarship. And your goal is to do well in school. That's your goal, right? This is not your right. This is not a privilege. This is me working my butt off so that you can go to college and make us proud. And so that's what we did. And so, you know, my mom, like I said,

has been very instrumental in my journey, very inspiring. She's always worked really hard. And, you know, yeah, she's just awesome. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty inspiring. Did that have a big influence when it came to, I guess, maybe, you know, you becoming an entrepreneur and running your own business and also having your own side hustles when you were have a big influence when it came to, I guess, maybe, you know, you becoming an entrepreneur and running your own business and also having your own side hustles when you're just starting out? Yes, absolutely. Just seeing my mom hustle. She worked full time in investment banking, and then she had all kinds of businesses. I remember every day after school, after her job, when I would get picked up, we would go straight to one business or the other.

And then on Saturday and Sunday, we were going to one business or the other. So the side hustle gene, I think was passed down to me from my mom. And just, you know, the lesson I learned from my mom was just not to be reliant on anybody, not to be reliant on any one source of income and to be able to give yourself options and creating a side hustle while at times can be uncomfortable, right? It's the time you could spend sleeping or catching up on TV or doing whatever you want to do. You're working in the middle of the night. If you have a full-time job, just being able to create those multiple streams of income, I think can really help accelerate any goals that you want to achieve

and can be very impactful. And it's not something you have to do forever, right? It can be a means to an end. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's the, I think that, I mean, side hustles definitely helped me in my 20s because I did not earn a ton of money in any of the jobs I had in my 20s. And so they definitely were critical to kind of my success later on. But yeah, like you said, I think a lot of people maybe are a bit resistant to the idea of a side hustle because they forget that it can be temporary and you can switch things. You can try new things,

but also there's a lot of great things. You may, you know, discover a new passion or a new skill set that you may not have had. But like you said, it's, it's so important for, for everyone really to, to aspire to kind of financial independence, not rely on anyone or any organization or something like that for their, you know, financial means, but especially for women, especially like if you look at history, it's like, we it's only really up until recently that we were allowed to have our own bank accounts and make our own decisions. And so to to kind of get rid of this old idea. I feel like I've just talked to so many women on the podcast lately about this. So it's like so fresh in my mind, especially the idea of being your own,

being the breadwinner or not just automatically assuming that if you, you know, are with a partner, they're going to make more than you and stuff like that. Yeah, we really need to kind of flip what we these preconceived notions of money and and being a woman and and kind of get over that and and yeah kind of empower ourselves and yeah I mean for me that's always been a really important thing not that I ever really saw anything in my own life maybe with my grandparents a little bit just because both my grandmas were you know stay-at-home moms or they were teachers and then became stay-at-home moms and stuff like that but I never wanted to ever rely on like a man like I never wanted to be a stay at home mom because that terrified me. I'm like, well, then I have no, you know, I'm not making any income.

And what if something happens, then I'm kind of screwed because I have no money. It really always kind of scared me just having to rely on, you know, someone for everything, really. Yeah. And, you know, I think, like you said, there's, there's so much to women and money when you think about it, right? Especially us getting comfortable with our ability to earn our ability to ask for more ability to know that we can step out on our own and be entrepreneurs, right? Especially because that's not in the traditional household. When you look at like, you're just basic example of a household of a two parent household, where the dad would go out to work back then the mom would stay home and raise the kids and the dad would come home, pull his sons aside, talk about business. And the mom takes her daughters to the kitchen.

We talk about homemaking and recipes. Everybody has an incredible recipe from their mother or their grandmother or their great grandma, depending on the age. But money was not that organic thing that was passed down to us, right? So we're in this space where we're having to get comfortable. And I feel like for anyone who's even a stay-at-home mom, right, for whatever reason, you can't work, you have a special needs child, the income difference with child care and what you're earning is not significant to keep you away from your kid there's many reasons you can still be the manager of your household finances you can still position your family for financial success and you can still find ways to save within your household budget right so there is opportunity there as well to do well with money and in a way to create

options but like you, I'm a huge fan of just women being able to earn and maybe you're a step home mom now because you have young children, but your kids will grow, they will have they will become teenagers. And that's a whole new life, right? They'll go, they'll go off to college, that's a whole new opportunity for you to step out into a career in business, something. Yeah. And I know there's so many stats out there that show it's actually really beneficial for kids to see both parents work or just to also see, you know, representation in, you know, their dad and their mom working. Because I think, again, historically, growing up, I kind of was having a conversation with a friend the other day. I'm like, yeah, my dad pretty much was growing up in that kind of madman TV show era, which makes a lot of sense.

Some of the things like, okay, that's why the way he is. That's why. That makes a lot of sense. But also the representations like the mom was the stay-at-home mom, did all the housework and all that stuff. The dad was – he owned a bakery and you know he ran the business and so that does kind of you know then as you become an adult you may have different you may have preconceived notions of what men do and what women do which we kind of need to kind of shatter that idea because just the world is so different now but so that's another thing it's like so important to represent the normality of you know

the woman going to work and or running a business and maybe the dad staying home and stuff like that all these um you know different ideas of kind of gender roles and stuff like that i think that can only be a good thing for for kind of the next generation yes um so you know part of this too and i know this is still a big topic that so many people are talking about and i'm so glad that you have a book specifically on that which is is growing your money, building your wealth, investing. And historically, women are either haven't done it because they didn't have the opportunity to do so, or are really resistant because they're scared of losing their money. And fair enough, because we really haven't had that many years to be able to earn it or to save it. And so typically, we are very conservative when it

comes to our investments. But I think I mean, I've had conversations with so many women over the past several years. And what I love that I'm seeing is more people are talking about investing and it's becoming, you know, normalized, which is good. But again, I feel like there's not a lot of information out there specifically for kind of women. Like when you Google, like, or you're on YouTube trying to find investing information, pretty much it's just gonna be a bunch of guys talking about hot stocks. And you're like, okay, this doesn't speak to me. I can't relate to this as a woman. I don't want to just, you know, drown all my money in cryptocurrency. And so, you know, why was that such an important message that you really wanted

to get across on all of your platforms, the importance of women investing? You know, exactly for what you said, you see investing being talked about, but it's from what I've seen so far, there are women in the conversation, but it's a lot more so men talking about it, talking about hot stocks, talking about cryptocurrency, talking about trading. And when you really think about the dynamics of just women and money, investing is something that is incredibly important for women, even more so than men. And that was really the motivation behind writing that book, Learn How Investing Works for Your Money. Because when you look at it, women are impacted by a gender wage gap. On average, earn 20% less than their white male

counterparts. This is a stat that everybody knows. When you break it down by demographics, those stats are even more depressing. And so as a result of this gender wage gap, there is now this investment gap. Because if you don't earn enough, then you're not going to invest enough. You have less to invest. And depending on the woman, if you're a single mother, you have dependents, you have big financial obligations, and you're looking at this investing world as a huge mountain, huge hurdle to climb, it's likely that you're not investing at all, right? And investing, the role of investing, if you turn on your TV, is very much a old boys club. You either see Jim Cramer yelling at everybody or, you know, they're talking about investing with sports connotations, which is great.

You know, some people like sports, but there are unique needs that women have when it comes to investing. Like we live longer than men on average. Like we have this big investment gap as a result of the gender wage gap, like we're taking time off of work either temporarily or permanently to raise children, which means we're losing a ton of money in our prime income earning years. And the only way that we can get ahead of all these factors working against us is by putting our money to work for us, where we're not actively exchanging our time for money, because our time is limited, right? Kids, all these other things that are going on. And so my goal was just to really break down investing in a simplified form for everyone, not just women, because I think a lot of guys who use the big terms talking about investing do not

know what they're talking about. I would agree with that. They get the YouTube views, but they just, no, I'm like, no, don't do that. Stop it. Nope, nope. And investing doesn't have to be complicated and it doesn't have to be patronizing either. And I feel sometimes women can be intimidated by investing because of experiences that they've had. So personally, I remember saving money and wanting to invest. And I was like, well, I want to make sure I do this the right way. So the best place to go is to a financial advisor's office. And as you know, the stat with financial advisors, over 90% of them are men. I walk into this financial advisor's office and I tell him I want to invest. I have a long time horizon. I had done a bit of research. So I kind of knew what I was looking for, but I

needed guidance on how to invest the money. And he was so concerned with where did I get the money? Am I married? Why do I have this much money? And I'm like, are you here to help me invest or to be intimidated by the fact that I have money and then question me? And it was just a very unsettling experience. I did not give him any of my business.

And I took it upon myself to learn how investing worked for myself so I could put my money to work for me. And I was able to do that through trial and error. And so, you know, like I said, investing doesn't have to be complicated. And for women, it's something that we need to prioritize more so than, you know, our male counterparts, just because of all the factors working against us. Yeah, we have a lot more barriers. And man, have I heard, I mean, I have that similar experience working with an advisor, useless, and like totally useless. When I look back, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I wish I could find him on the street be like, Hey, you

yeah, you. Because I remember like, you know, this was years ago now before we were about to leave, you know, like for him for good, because I'm like, this guy is just he's just selling us products. He's not actually listening to us. He also like literally would only talk to my husband and my husband doesn't know anything about investing. That's why I'm here. You know, and I remember, you know, one day I was just getting so frustrated. I'm like, you know, I see all those certificates on your wall. You know, I'm working towards all of them. And I have most of them now. So screw that guy. But yeah, I feel like women have so many more barriers that they have to overcome like men don't get questioned why do you have money i mean i saw recently yeah i saw recently a friend of mine i think she tweeted um that you know years ago she also went to go see an advisor she wanted to start investing and you know she had maybe just a little bit amount of money maybe a thousand dollars or something like that um and the advisor's like sorry you don't have enough money to start investing which i'm like well well, that's, that's not true. Actually, there's lots

of vehicles where you can actually start investing with as little as like $500 or something like that. But that's, that's bullshit. That's not true. There's so many. It's, you know, it's, and it's really sad. You know, a friend of mine went to an advisor also, and she laid out her whole finances with him in terms of like a student loan the things she wanted to accomplish investing saving and she she spent like 30 minutes talking about this whole thing and he sat back in his chair he said to her you know it'll be better for you just to get married oh my god that's the worst financial advice you're like excuse me like that's yep he was dead serious he was like just get married find a rich guy solve all your problems and you're like what year is it like i feel 20 2019 sorry no no was this guy

86 years old he was an older he was an older financial advisor she was so she couldn't believe it to retire out of the field and let the new people come in with new ideas, because that is absolutely crazy. Absolutely crazy. I mean, I think that's why there's a big hunger, I guess. And I see this with a lot of women. They are craving this information, because they're not getting it from maybe the traditional sources that were told by your parents, go see an advisor. Well, we did, and it didn't work out. So what else is there? And that's why I've, you know, get so many questions, what are some great books? And also, what are some great books or resources or courses by women for women, or just by women in general, because I think we do have a unique way of displaying

information and explaining things. Because we are coming from a different perspective. We also know what those barriers are so we can address them because we know we've experienced them ourselves. So I think it's, oh gosh, yeah, we still have so much work to do, but thank goodness there's people like you who are actively, you know, trying to kind of break, break the cycle. Because I mean, for me, my biggest thing is, you know, I have a young niece who's turning two in July and I'm like, well, number one, I'm so excited for when she's a bit older, and I could talk to her about money and stuff like that. I mean, she may not be interested, but I'm going to still try. But you know, I'm so excited to kind of teach like that generation about money in like a cool, well, I won't be cool, because I'll be old. But you know, like an interesting way, you know, that's like more accessible, because I never got that when I was, I mean, younger. I mean, it's, it's nice to see in the past couple years, so many other women content creators come about and are able to speak on this and in such a unique way. But yeah, for the longest time, I just felt like I wasn't like, literally, like four years

ago, I felt like I'm still not like allowed to join this club, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I see a lot more women joining and I think it's still not nearly enough. I mean, we make up half of the world's population. Yeah. When you think about it like that, you're like, so why, you know, the stats just don't make sense, do they? You know, it's, it's, it's generational. It's not, it's that, like I said earlier, that lack of the organic transition of just financial knowledge. Moms, grandmas did not talk to their daughters about this when they were passing on their recipes because they were not taught. And back then, if you think back to your grandmother's generation, your great grandmother's generation, it was never the woman's place. And

women back then who, if you watch any documentaries or read books, women back then who if you watch any documentaries or read books women back then who um uh had financial means either had it because their parents or their family was rich or because they were outcasts going against everything brides to become this horrible person that wants to have money yeah it was it just they made it seem like a terrible thing for women to be successful and be and be independent. And in many instances, women like that were ostracized from society, even though they had the means to participate in society. So it's very complex. But in today's world, women are in a position where, yes, we're impacted by the gender wage gap, but we're in a position where we're earning

more money on average than our mothers and our grandmothers. And many women are making specific decisions. There are women who are choosing not to get married. There are women who are choosing to have kids on their own. Women who are choosing to exit bad relationships. And given the fact that we are doing more things on our own in today's world, which is perfectly fine, we also need to be able to take care of us now and into the future financially. And so I think that's why it's becoming more of a priority or it should be for women. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like I've been also having those conversations about trying to

express like the importance of money management as if it's a form of self-care because it really is. But I think for the longest time, this is also another thing that us women have to deal with is we take care of everybody and then ourselves last. Like it really I do think about, you know, my my grandmother on my mother's side and she, you know, raised four kids. She did. She did so, so much. But, you know, typically, you know, we'd all come home or come to her house for Thanksgiving or something like that. She'd create this huge spread for, I don't know, 10, 15 people. Like it's, it's crazy. And she would make sure everyone was eating. And then we'd be like, grandma, sit down. Don't you want? And she's, she would always be the last to sit down and actually eat her meal. And usually she'd be eating when we're all finished. And I'm like, isn't that such a like typical representation

of women? It's like, we will take care of everybody and ourselves last. And we really need to get over this idea that we're selfish or whatever. We have an ego or something like that. If we want to take care of ourselves first and then everybody else, because I think, I mean, men do it all the time and we don't batten eyelash, but also it's like, if we don't take care of ourselves, how can we properly take care of, you know, our dependents, our family, our friends or whoever? That is so true. That is very, very true. speak about. Obviously, you're a person of color. And it's also so important to have representation of not just, you know, a bunch of white people talking about money, because I mean, yeah, I'm even sick of it. I think we need diverse voices, but diverse backgrounds, who can share different perspectives. Why is that, again, is such an important thing that you want to continue? I mean, I know, you know, I read some headline of an article that you were featured in that you

couldn't find a money book for women like you. So you just wrote one, which I think is amazing. But also, it shouldn't have to be that hard, right? But it's like the number of personal finance books from people of color, there's not a lot, I'll be honest. That is that is very true. I remember trying to find an investing book by a black woman. And the last book that was traditionally published was from 2008 that I was able to find. And, you know, we are seeing a lot of women coming up in the space, but we definitely need more women from minority demographics, Black women, Latino women. And people will always argue and say, well, why does it matter? You know, financial information is financial information. But what people fail to realize sometimes is that not everybody is coming from an even playing field, right?

Minority communities are more so disadvantaged for a variety of factors, many, many different factors. And being able to get financial education from someone who understands the background you're coming from, someone who can relate to your experiences, someone who can speak to you in a language that you understand can be incredibly impactful, especially from a trust perspective. And I think it's really important to just have the voices of a variety of different types of people from different types of backgrounds out in the world, because like I said, we're all coming from different playing fields and not everybody is the same, right? I cannot relate to even today, there's many financial advisors and experts that I just personally cannot relate

to. I don't understand what you're saying. Yes, you're talking about the same basic financial concepts, but everything else you're talking about just has, does not resonate with me in any form or way. And that's part of education. Learning doesn't just happen by presenting facts of figures and stats. Learning also happens from experience and observing the experience of others and hearing the experience of others and relating those experiences to your own. So it's so incredibly important in a country where diversity runs so deep in terms of the color of people who live here to have a variety of voices also representing them in the finance space as well. I know. And I'm just so appreciative that this has been more of a conversation, especially in the past year, because even still, it's almost

surprising. But sometimes I will, you know, on twitter and and see people in the personal finance space usually they're white and usually they're older um who who yeah come from that perspective it's like why does it matter and it's like oh you've never been marginalized or you've never been discriminated against because that's why you've never been poor let's just yeah or you've never been poor you don't know what it is to miss a meal oh i think we can agree a certain finance expert who is like, well, if you need that money, then you're screwed already. I'm like, who is this person on TV giving this advice? Like, you know, if you, yeah, I can't. To be really honest, I was very disappointed in the personal finance committee in 2020

because I found that from a business perspective, there were just so many situations where we had to cut ties because I just found a lot of hate come out at the beginning of the pandemic. There was a lot of, I told you so, that's why you should have an emergency fund. Good for you that you don't have savings. Now you know what it's like next time save. And I'm like, yes, there are people who are financially irresponsible, but you don't have savings. Now you know what it's like next time save. And I'm like, yes, there are people who are financially irresponsible, but you have to really have

empathy and realize that there are people who maybe were just starting their financial journeys, just getting started. People who had to leave a bad relationship because the pandemic amplified abuse, emotional, physical abuse in a home because everybody was home and they needed to get out and they had no money. There are people who their entire family finances was devastated because of a COVID death. How can you get on social media and say, I told you so good for you? Yeah. It's like this whole kind of old school bootstrap mentality. It's like anyone can achieve financial success if they just work hard. I'm like, that's what we've been doing,

though. Like, it's the assumption that if you haven't reached a certain level of success, it's because you're lazy, you didn't put in the work, you didn't read these steps to success. You're like, no, no, no, we did that, but I'm sorry. No one can actually prepare for a pandemic because no one, I mean, unless you're around in the twenties, no one's experienced it. So how would we know this was coming? And yeah, like you said, there's, there's so many people that I know that we're really trying there. We're finally starting to take care of their finances. And then this happened, then they lose their job. Like, what do you want to do? I feel like that's something that I've been seeing a lot more and I've been trying to

you know say a lot more it's like we need more empathy in this space because honestly when I first started you know reading about personal finance and stuff like that you know a decade ago I mean the tone like I look back I'm like why was I following that person or taking that person's advice they were actually kind of mean like they were very much the, what's it called? The, you know, tough love. And you're like, I guess that worked for a bit, but then it also created a lot of mindset issues. And that like, I had, you know, I've always had a scarcity mentality of afraid that I'd lose my, all my money for whatever reason. And then that just amplified it because of that, you know, the fear of like, if you don't do this, then you're going to lose it all. And you're like Oh, my God, I better. But then that also, yeah, I just, we need to get rid

of some of these old school, you know, ideas of personal finance and, and realize that, you know, especially with this 2021 lens, things are different. And we need to, we need to think differently. But yeah, I agree. I mean, the people I follow and some of the people I used to look up to, a lot has changed the past year. And I think for the better. I think it's definitely showed a lot of people's true colors. And it's been really disappointing. It's been very disappointing. Yes, the true colors. Yes, the true colors. And I think that you can show tough love, but you can still show empathy. There's no excuse for not showing empathy. You can be a hardcore, strict person, but you can still show empathy, right?

So that was just my biggest issue with the personal finance space in 2020. And it just made me realize, like you said, it caused people to show their true colors. And it made me realize that I, in my own corner of the space, the community, I have my own work to do. And I will continue to represent women like me. And I'll continue to show empathy because that's all I will ever do. And I'm not here to judge because you don't control life and death. You don't control an illness in your family. You don't control so many things that people are being

judged for and ashamed for. That is completely unfair. And it's also not helpful. I mean, yeah, I still see, you know, advice on Twitter. It's like, if you're in this situation, it's because you did this, this, this, you know, wrong. Or like I saw, like, it was literally the other day and it was some guy, I don't know, it was probably a guy, but he was like, you know, kind of anonymous or whatever. But yeah, it was just like this old school kind of advice, basically putting all of the, you know, responsibility on you with your choices. And I'm like, we can't just, you know, talk about personal finance in that it's a personal choice, every single thing that you do. And it's all about making right choices. Like it is that but also the climate, the country, the political atmosphere that we're in, that like, there's a lot of things

that kind of come into play. And I think, because a lot of us come from a place of privilege, like nothing's really, you know, a lot of us have not actually experienced poverty, we've never experienced like a big financial emergency that we couldn't afford. We don't understand, but it's so important to take a step back. And like you say, really practice empathy, because maybe it is something that we have to practice, because we get kind of, I think, stuck in our little bubbles. And so we don't realize, well, other people have different lives and different experiences. Yes, yeah, that is the truth. And you know, like people think about poverty, but do you really know what it means? Do you really know

what it means? Most people don't. Most people don't. Exactly. And also, I think a lot of it is what we've learned. I mean, there's lots of things that are just kind of, yeah, just ideas of things that I learned younger that I need to unlearn as an adult. Like thinking that, you know, yeah, people that are poor is because they made poor decisions it's like they chose to be poor yeah no one chooses to be poor right yeah i'm like that's ridiculous when you think about it no one chooses that um no i think maybe that was just a scare tactic or something used for you know to be like you're poor i mean for some people it is their fault but for the most the vast majority of people, it is not their fault. They are poor. There are many, many, many deprudent factors that lead to poverty. And when someone is living in poverty, it is extremely difficult to come out of it, you know, so and I've seen enough poverty in my family growing up where

I come from. So whenever people have that conversation someone recently sent me an email and you know talking about oh they really enjoyed hearing my story as an immigrant and the fact that I came from another country and I'm able to be successful nobody has any excuse not to be successful I guess people do have excuses it's called poverty yeah yeah okay and it's and lack of knowledge and lack of information, that is a killer because some people are in such dire situations where nobody around them knows anything about anything. And they're being targeted so heavily with debt and credit vehicles that they don't even get the opportunity to learn the right approach to take,

especially young people who don't have guidance. They fall into all kinds of traps, right? And people will say, well, why didn't you read the fine print? When you think about yourself and think about the money mistakes you have made in your own life, you realize it's easy to fall into a trap. It's easy to get bamboozled, especially when you're constantly targeted on social media, you're constantly targeted on TV, you're constantly targeted on social media, constantly targeted on TV. You're constantly targeted by virtue of your demographic or where you live or the color of your skin or, you know, so many factors working against you that it just makes it really, really difficult for you to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And so, yeah, I just I know we're kind of going down a rabbit hole here, but yeah, no, I completely I completely agree. It's never been. And also things have changed so much because of technology and the internet and social media. I mean, it's very, very easy to get scammed. I'm not even joking. The other day I got this email and it looked so legitimate.

It was from this kind of payment company that I use to process payments. And I'm like, whoa, they're telling me that there's something wrong with my account. Click this link. I'm like, it looked legit. And then I'm like, wait a minute, let's just take a step back because it seems odd because I actually checked my account, didn't click on their link, but I checked my account. I'm like, there's no messages or anything like that. So it looks fine. And then I took a look at the emails.

I'm like, it doesn't look like those are the proper emails they've used. It's something that looks a bit off. So I emailed the company and like, is this a phishing scam? They're like, oh my gosh, it is. Thanks for letting us know. I'm like, how easy would it have been for me to just not give it a second thought? Cause I was, you know, working on something else, click that link and, you know, then they get some personal information and then, you know, who knows what happens. So even like, unfortunately, um, some, it's very easy to now, you know, create these ph happens or even like, unfortunately, um, some, it's very easy to now, you know, create these fishing Instagram accounts that target people pretend to be like you, this has happened to me a couple of times, people, whatever, pretend to be me and, and target,

you know, maybe my audience or people that think it's me. And then, you know, I've had a few people, they're like, Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was you. And then I clicked this link and there you go. I'm like, I would never ask you for money on Instagram. Some ladies like, Oh, she gave them $1,600. I'm like, what did you give $1,600? It's like the company that said they were bullish upon me. I'm like, no, that was not me. No, I know. It's, it's, it's so easy to fall into those traps. So I guess the only thing that you and me can do is continue to do the work that we're doing to kind of spread that. So hopefully maybe one day they are on Instagram, and then they'll they'll see a post by you or something that someone shared. And then that'll kind of, you know, give them that kind of starting point to, to, you know, filling in know you do so much amazing work. What is something that you'd like to leave listeners with in terms of just like something that is, you know, you're

really passionate about that you really want to make sure that they know in terms of, you know, just managing their money or just even a mindset thing. I always like to tell people, because when you are in that space where you're trying to pay off debt or save money or accomplish a big goal, at the beginning, it's really exciting. And then as you kind of get into the motions of it, like real life sets in and you realize, wait a minute, this is going to take some time. This is going to be uncomfortable. And just a reminder that whatever you put your mind to, as long as you're really clear on why you want it, you can accomplish it. And as you learn, as you gain all these new insights on your journey to financial wellness, don't forget to

reach back and help other people. And it could be people in your family. It could be teaching your kids what you're learning, your parents, friends of yours, people in your community, your volunteering services, just to talk about money in your community. Because I find that a lot of people do well with money and they want to turn it into a business of well I'm now a personal finance educator but you can also give back when you learn um to people who may not be able to afford your services and just a reminder to folks to also just show empathy you know a lot of people are going through all kinds of circumstances especially right now with this crazy times that we're living in. Never ending pandemic.

Yeah. So I just, I would like to leave those words with folks. Yeah. No, I think that's, that's, yeah, that's so great. I mean, what a beautiful idea to not only learn something and then it changed, you know, your perspective and change your life. I mean, that's part of the reason I got into this business is I, it changed my life learning about money. I needed to share the news, but you don't have to start a podcast to do that.

You can help people in your direct circle, your family, your friends, your sisters, your brothers, and have a big impact. And then they can go off and do the same. And then it's this kind of beautiful ripple effect. And then everyone will be helped. So I think that's a great message to leave everyone with. Bola, it was a pleasure having you on the show. Before I let you go, where can people find more information about you, all the amazing resources that you have, and your three books that you have? Yes. So you can find me and everything Clever Girl Finance at clevergirlfinance.com. We have

over 30 plus free courses to help you with your financial goals. And we're also on social media, on YouTube, Instagram, et cetera, at Clever Girl Finance. And I would love for you guys to go check out my new book. It's my third book, and it's called The Side Hustle Guide. And I talk about how to set up a side hustle to create multiple streams of income, which you and I just talked about earlier on in the podcast. I feel like there's never been a more important time to start a side hustle than now when everyone's in different financial situations, different, you know, in between careers. So I think that's very helpful to have a guide that'll show you what to do. Yes, yes. Well, thank you again for being on the show. It was so great chatting with you. Thank you for the opportunity to be here.

And that was episode 281. With the wonderful Bola Shikunbi. You can find her at clevergirlfinance.com. You can also follow her on Twitter at clevergirlcgf. On Instagram, you can find her at clevergirlfinance. She also is on YouTube at clevergirlfinance. So make sure to check her out. She has so many amazing resources on her website, clevergirlfinance.com once again. So make sure to check it out. She mentioned she has a ton of courses.

She has tons of books. She has tons of free downloads. It's actually kind of crazy how much free content that she provides. So make sure to check her out. And like I mentioned, I'm also giving away a copy of her new book, Clever Girl Finance, the side hustle guide. So I will share more details about that. Also some very important things I want to share. So do not go away. Just want to share first a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by VIP Kid. Looking to level up your financial situation by adding on a side hustle? I'm obviously a huge fan of side hustles since not only did my own side hustle help me save and invest for my future at a faster rate

than my salary could have allowed, it ultimately led me to a whole new career, this podcast. So if you're looking for a way to earn some extra money while shaping adorable young minds at the same time, you may want to check out becoming a virtual English teacher with VIPKID. You can earn between $14 to $22 US per hour plus incentives, work whenever and wherever you want, get access to hundreds of workshops and classes to help you grow in your career. And the best part is you don't have to spend hours crafting your own teaching curriculum. As a teacher, you would get access to VIPKid's world-class curriculum, and all classes are one-on-one, so students stay super engaged and there is no class prep required. All you need to be eligible is a bachelor's degree, at least two years experience teaching

or working with children, and eligibility to work in the United States or Canada. To learn more about VIP Kid, which was named one of Glassdoor's top 10 best places to work in 2019 and 2020, and the number one company for remote jobs, visit jessicamorehouse.com slash VIP Kid. Once again, that's jessicamorehouse.com slash VIP Kid, or check out the show notes for this episode. Okay, so like I mentioned, I'm giving away a ton of books. I think last count nine, there's going to be more so I have more guests coming on the show that have books. So I'm always updating them every single week when I have the guests on the show. If you go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash contests or contest, I mean s or not, I don't care. It will take you to the right landing page. It will have all of the different books that I'm giving away on that one page. You can, you know, enter to win all of them. You can

just a few that you want. You're obviously only going to win one of the books because I will see your name and I will not do a duplicate. So but you know, you got some good chances. I'll be honest, some of these books don't have a lot of entries. So enter away. And hopefully you will win a book also was very exciting that I feel like I don't mention enough and I should, I don't know why. You know, I personally mail the book to you and sometimes, I mean, most of the time, I will include a little personalized note for you in there, which is always kind of exciting. So, you know, enter to win jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. I will, of course, also link to it in the show notes for the episode jessicamorehouse.com slash 281 of the show. Make sure to check out the show notes for the episode jessicamorehouse.com slash 281 of the show uh make

sure to check out the show notes because all the links that i've mentioned some of the things and resources that we mentioned in this episode i will include uh in there so again you know there you there you go you can find the show notes for any episode you've ever listened to honestly just by going to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast or jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever the number of that episode is just an FYI so that's the contest news and info about the podcast in case you don't know um some other important things I want to share and I think I've been sharing this definitely on the last episode um so I am doing a webinar I have not done a webinar my on my own for the longest time So way overdue. It will be taking place Tuesday, May 25th at 7pm Eastern Time. If you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash webinar. Also,

if you just check out the show notes, there's going to be a link in there too. You can sign up. It is all about investing. It is focused on investing for Canadians. I will just preface that. But hey, if you're American or from a different country, check it out. Maybe you'll learn about investing in Canada. Maybe you want to move here. I don't know. So it's open to anybody. But it is called this five secrets of building wealth in Canada. Not only are you going to learn some amazing nuggets, but hey, this is an opportunity to join me live and there's going to be Q&A. So you can ask me whatever the heck you want live and I'll be there to answer your questions. Okay, so hopefully I will see you then. Again, that is Tuesday, May 25th at 7pm Eastern Time. Another thing I want to share is I have a YouTube channel

in case you don't know, and I've been putting out more weekly videos, which are super fun, just released a video the other day about my retirement portfolio. I don't really share anything about me personally in terms of money because I'm always worried someone's going to like find my bank info and then steal all my money. I know that's crazy. I'm just paranoid. So, you know, as someone who's like kind of everything they do is, you know, public, not everything I do, but a lot of it is public. I like to keep some things private. That being said, I did just make a YouTube video about what I've earned over the past four years by using one of the robo advisor platforms. And you can check it out on my YouTube channel. I also just released another video about how to budget as a couple. So if you have ideas for future videos for me, I'm I honestly I'm not no

joke. I every single email I get, obviously I respond to them, but I also keep it in a special folder and keep track of all the questions I get from people so I can create content about whatever those questions are in the future. So I do care about what you think. So let me know what you want me to make future videos about, but also too, for the podcast, if you have an idea for a guest or a topic. I have done episodes based on, you know, feedback from people. So let me know. Let me know what you want me to do in the future. I think that is it for the moment. I'm sure there will be more stuff, but I will share with you whatever the new stuff is next week. But again, one other thing, too, just in case you don't know, if you want to stay in the loop, I do have a biweeklyly newsletter that I send out bi-weekly,

duh. And you can sign up at jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe. I also have a ton of other, you know, great resources and freebies on my website, jessicamorehouse.com, budget spreadsheets and courses and stuff like that, jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. So, you know, check it out. See if there's anything that you need. I probably have something for you. Anyways, that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening. A big thank you to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. Have a good rest of your week. I will see you back here with a fresh new episode next Wednesday. this podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network