More Money Podcast - 284 Why Getting Good with Money Doesn't Have to Be Complicated - Tiffany Aliche, Founder of The Budgetnista and Author of Get Good with Money

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

This week I have Tiffany “The Budgetnista” Aliche on the podcast! I have been following Tiffany for years and throughout that time have seen her and her brand grow exponentially. We chat about everything from her new book, Get Good with Money to how she took her business from one-on-one budget coaching to helping millions of women save and manage their money. Hailing from New Jersey, Tiffany is a personal financial educator and former teacher of over 10 years with a Master’s degree in Education. She was instrumental in getting The Budgetnista Law (A1414) passed in January 2019, making financial education mandatory for middle school students in New Jersey. Her new book Get Good with Money, was published earlier this year and is a New York Times Bestseller. In this episode, Tiffany gives insight into how her business grew over time and how her past as a teacher made her into the successful personal financial educator that she is today. I hope this episode drives home the fact that everyone starts somewhere, and you can decide to change and start your personal finance journey at any time. For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/284 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is episode 284, and I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited, like I teased in last week's episode. So, so, so, so excited to have my next guest on the show. I have the one, the only, Tiffany Aliche on the show. I mean, she is a powerhouse and has had a hell of a year in 2021 already. So just in case you don't know, Tiffany, the budget Nista, Alice is America's favorite personal finance educator, I'd have to agree and the author of get good with money, which just came out this year. And through her live richer movement, she has helped over 1 million women save, manage, and pay off millions of dollars.

And she is a former teacher for 10 years. She was a teacher with a master's degree in education. And Tiffany was instrumental in getting the Budgetnista Law, which is A1414, passed in January 2019, making financial education mandatory for middle school students in New Jersey. Whoa, that's mega. That is huge. But like I mentioned, she just came out with a book called Get Good With Money. It is a New York Times bestseller. And it makes sense why that is. It is an amazing book. And she's also an amazing teacher. It makes it all make sense. It all makes sense. I mean, I've been a huge fan of hers for so long. And I think a big reason why is she has this, I don't know, she's a bit magical in this way in that she

has this power to just, she has this huge audience, but it makes you feel like she's only talking to you. Does that make sense? Like you just feel so welcomed into her community. And she really does have such a huge, huge community. So she really does have something special. And so we're going to talk about her journey, some of her best tips, we're going to dive into her latest book, so many great things to look forward to in this episode. So I cannot wait to get to that interview with you. Before I do, though, just a few words I want to share about this podcast episodes sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by TD Direct Investing. TD Direct Investing is marking June as Options Education Month with the goal of helping

investors learn more about options trading. Throughout the month, they are hosting a number of free virtual events for beginner and intermediate investors alike. Want to learn about some of the things people wish they knew before they began or build on some of the knowledge you may already have on options? Visit td.com slash options education month to register for one of the many live webinars TD Direct Investing will be hosting. Or if you're more interested in getting an introduction to options in the first place, there are a number of on-demand video lessons available too. To learn more and to check out the list of free events, visit td.com slash options education month. Once again, to find out what webinars, masterclasses, and on-demand video lessons are available to view for free, visit td.com slash options education month. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Tiffany. I'm thrilled to have you on my show.

Thank you for having me, Jessica. I'm excited to be here. I've been following you for years and years and years. And so I'm so thrilled that you have this book, which I think is such a, I mean, good timing. I feel like this is, I mean, I know we're not in 2020 anymore, but it just feels like we're still doing the thing that we were doing last year. And there's never been a greater need i think for financial education and and like a really you know straightforward and thorough roadmap to how to um get good with your money which is you know i didn't even mean to say that but clearly like your book is right next to me and that's no i'm not like didn't even i'm like oh gosh that's the name of your book it's so cheesy but i didn't mean to do that. No, no.

It feels natural, right? Because that's what we say. Like, you know, like, oh, I got to get better with my money. Yeah. And so, like, or like, I got to get good with my money. So it was just, and I wrote it during quarantine and pandemic. So it's, it definitely, there's an energy there of like, oh, my goodness. So what happens when everything really goes wrong

how do you do that you know yeah and i feel like because or before the pandemic i think a lot of us kind of maybe lost sight of it i mean not us who are like always thinking about money because we're in that space but everyone else just living their lives i think because the recession had happened so long ago a lot of people forgot about what it's like when you don't have your financial house in order. And so this was a big wake up call, I think, for people. So I'm glad that there's, you know, I mean, you've had resources for years and years and years. And it's crazy. So you've been doing this for a long time, but you've grown such a huge community, like you've helped millions of people. That's outrageous. Like in a good way. That's crazy.

Well, cause also too, it's been like, you think about like, you know, people who watch TV cause I've been on shows, you know, but then I'm also, my own audience is about a million women strong and we have just been consistent in delivering information. At the end of the day, I always say like, I'm a teacher. So I was an actual school teacher before I started the budget Nista. And so I just extended that. But now, you know, I really lean into teaching financial education, but in any way that I can, whether it's through books, whether it's my podcast, Brown Ambition, my online school. So it's like, how many different ways can I reach and teach, you know, students out there who are wanting to learn how to, you know, what I call live a richer life, you know? I want to kind of start with, so I actually loved the intro of your book. I don't think I was fully aware of your kind of background and how you actually got into

this space. So you, you know, it seemed like you had everything set up so you would be good with your money automatically because your parents were very good with your money. That's always a great starting point. But then you made some mistakes and mistakes. And that's the thing. It's like everyone does make mistakes. And I think that's a big important thing in the personal finance community to really talk about them because a lot of people just talk about how awesome they are with their money. You're like, oh, look at me. It's like, yeah, but what have you done wrong? Because that's also a great way to learn. So do you want to kind of share a little bit about what was kind of the trigger or, you

know, spark that helped you eventually create the Budgetnista? So I, yeah, so I grew up, thankfully, like, you know, my parents were really good with teaching my sisters and I bought money, especially my dad, who has his bachelor's in economics and a master's in finance. So, but it, and I was pretty good until my mid twenties. Cause I just really used to just do what he told me to do. Then usually, you know, usually around your twenties you know, if you haven't already rebelled, that's when it kicks in. And I was kind of like, I know all the things I could do this. And I did not know any of the things. And so I leaned into what I

thought was a friend of mine who I thought was wealthy. I like to call him Jack the Thief, which you'll see why in a minute. He was just that, a thief. I didn't know he was a thief at the time. I just thought he was a, because we'd been friends for like over five years by then. Wow. Yeah. So he wasn't like, oh, I just met him. No, he was my friend for real. So I would watch him with the nicest apartments and the nicest cars and, you know, those fancy watch. And I was like, oh, you know, tech is rich. How'd you get rich? He's like, oh, investing. I'm like, oh, great. Can you teach me how to invest? He was like, sure. First rule of thumb is use other people's money. Take money off of a credit card. And I'd never heard of a cash advance before. I didn't realize what bad news it was.

So I did. And so I took off $20,000 from a credit card. I know. And now I literally look back and sometimes I want to like, it's almost like slow motion. I could see myself. I want to be like, no.

And I missed all the red flags and I gave him the 20,000 because he was going to quote unquote invest it for me and bring me back a lot of money. And in the meantime, I'd never had credit cards before. I had this one little like $500 limit card from college, but I was like, I had to open up new credit cards in order to take off the 20,000. And so I was like, well, I'm about to be so rich. So now would be a great time to just use my credit card. So I did to the tune of $15,000. So within like a week and a half, I went from zero credit card debt to $35,000 in credit card debt. And I know it wouldn't have been

as bad if the recession didn't like creep up right right after that it was like that is some bad timing I mean literally it's like it went from bad to worse to even worse to terrible to oh my goodness like so I bought a condo at 25 because I thought that's what you do you know like I'm like oh you know like I'm an adult now and I want to get my own place and I remember it was a big deal to me that I get one by the age of 25. And so I bought a condo at 25, which in itself, it's not necessarily a bad choice, but I didn't know that was the top of the market then. We didn't know that this recession was coming in a few years. So I bought my condo for 220. And then at 26, I graduated with my master's. So normally not a bad thing, but it was also

didn't know that a recession was coming where people were going to be out of work and my master's would be useless. So $52,000 in debt. Okay. Then at 27 is when I realized that Jack the Thief was indeed a thief. I was like, wait, what? So now I've got credit card debt, $35,000. And then, um, uh, 28, I was really like, well, that's when the recession hit, but I was like, hold steady, Tiffany, you're going to be okay. And then 29 is when I lost my job. And I was like, eh, it's all fine. Yeah. What else is there? Great. So here I was losing my condo. You know, there's a, I had this degree that I couldn't really use at this moment in time. It was costing me a lot of money and I had this credit card debt and Jack the thief was long gone.

And so the, by the next year I moved back home with my parents at 30, which was fun times. And yeah, so, so that's what forced me to really become the budget Nista because as I was fixing myself, cause I did have a kind of like this foundation that I learned at home, but as I was fixing myself, my other friends who are also struggling were like, wait, I know you said you're doing bad, but I'm doing way worse than you. Can I do like your level of bad? Can you show me what you're doing? And so that's how the budget needs to was born. Me fixing myself and my friends, then friends of friends and then friends of friends. Natural. I mean, yeah, so natural because you were already a teacher and you already had that good foundation, you just kind of maybe need to fill in a few gaps to figure out

where did I go wrong. So I want to tell people that there is a happy ending that Jack the thief. Yes, God is in jail. Yes. And that because he did to me, because I couldn't find him. But it was really hard. But I can see it's very unique his name is not his name is really not Jack he's got a very very unique name so like I would say like every few years ago I would google his name and um I want to say two years ago it came up and I was like what Jack the Thief versus the United States um but you know the United States of America I was like what so apparently Jack the Thief pulled a really huge scam and went up against the United States and you know nobody wins nobody wins that was he using his real name to scam

people like yeah I guess because I say his name is very unique he's the only one you know like smarter you know and the last name very unique too so it wasn't hard for me to google so I even had to be like wait maybe this is a different person. But as I looked deeper, I was like, no, that's him. He was terrible. He actually, he had a twin brother. This is how I knew for sure it was him because he had a twin brother who was a fraternal twin. So they didn't look alike. He, I guess, was like taking people's identities. And like, so that's why he got the federal government stepped in and was like, okay, you're a scam, scammer. So he tried to use as a defense because I was reading his file that like, it maybe was me, maybe it was my twin. Can you imagine

to potentially implicate your twin until later came out that his twin is a fraternal twin. They're like the twin that doesn't look like you. And I was like- And also no family loyalty. You really didn't throw your twin under the bus like that? Wow. So that's why Jack the Thief is in jail. But I'm grateful for those lessons. It wasn't fun then because what it taught me was, because up until then, I only knew to do basically what I was told to do, not what I had to learn to do. And so it really taught me like, and that's the premise from where Get Go With Money was built. It was like, okay, how do

you rebuild your foundation? How do you budget? How do you save? How do you dig your way out of debt? How do you fix your credit? How do you learn to earn? Those are the first five steps in what I call financial wholeness, which is what Get Good With Money is all about. It's 10 simple steps to becoming financially whole. So during that really hard time, I was working on those five steps. And once I got solid, then it was like time to move on. How do you invest? How do you adjust your insurance? Am I fully insured? How do I increase my net worth?

How do I start to stack my money team? Like who else do I need? What other financial advisors or whatever do I need? And then how do I start estate planning? Those are the next five components of financial wholeness. And so, yeah, I realized that as I was going through it, the teacher in me, when I learn a thing, I teach a thing. It's just my natural reaction. And so that's how Get Good With Money was born. And that as I was learning and going through, I found that people were getting good at one thing. Like, oh, I'm really good with credit. Not so much my debt. My debt's really great, but I'm not really saving. I'm

saving, but I'm not learning to earn or investing. And so I thought, you know, it took me a while to achieve financial wholeness to a space where these 10 components had built a really strong foundation for me. So much so that 10 years later, when the 2020 recession hit, I was in a really strong foundation for me. So much so that 10 years later, when the 2020 recession hit, I was in a really solid place and I was not easily shaken because I had reached financial homeless. And how nice is that to be like 10 years later, here we go again. And I feel like everyone felt like that when it's, I mean, I feel so, I get chills when I think of March 2020, like, oh, everyone was like, this is it is it this we were all waiting for it but yeah like yourself I mean I you know experienced the recession a little bit differently I just

finished college and so couldn't find a job and I was like okay great this is adulting um but it's nice to now be in my 30s 10 years later and then have yeah another market crash, kind of mini recession really, because it wasn't as crazy as back then. And be like, I'm okay. This is nice. I'm not totally broke. I'm not totally broken. And this is okay. And it's probably because I did a lot of the same things that you did. But I think what's so great about your book is what I hear a lot from people is when they are, especially even when March hit or even now people are like oh my gosh I need to do something with my money because I have not paid attention to it I have no idea where to start and if you just start googling sure there's information

but it is so overwhelming because I remember being in my 20s and being like this is too much like it's too much and like you said sometimes you'll hone in on one or two things so I got really good with budgeting and saving and being super frugal all the other stuff nah like investing i don't want to touch that that seems scary or um getting a mortgage buying place no way that's too scary and so and then you miss out on a lot of really important things to build you know kind of like you say financial wholeness so i think it's so great to have your book that's personal, but also tells you here's specifically the game plan. This is how to make a financial plan.

And this is what you need to do. That's what I wanted. It's like the difference between like between like by doing teacher speak is the difference between having a lesson and having a full curriculum. Yes. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm taking, you know, like geometry. That's great. But what about English and history and all the other components of what you're needing for school?

And so and then what like made it super crazy, because I remember watching, I don't know if you're familiar with Marie Forleo. Oh, yeah. Right. So I remember like when her book came out, I don't know, like a number of years ago. And she recorded when she got a call from her agent or I guess publisher, when it made the New York Times bestsellers list. And I was like, yeah. I mean, I remember being like, of course, it's Marie Forleo. She's like huge. But I remember because she's from Jersey as well. And she actually went to Seton Hall University and so did I. And I just remember thinking like, one day. But I didn't think, for this book, I thought to myself, well, slow down, like Tiffany, let's just get a book.

I know. So when it hit not just one, but two New York times bestsellers list, I, I just, it just felt surreal, you know, because especially in this space, especially, and you know, Jessica being a woman in this space, sometimes I feel like we're not always taken seriously when it comes to financial because they think we're just like, oh, you're just going to talk about savings, which there's nothing wrong with that. But I just felt vindicated that like, no, we hold a valuable space in this space, in the financial education space. And to have GECO's money, It's something that can never be taken away. It's a New York Times bestseller. It's a Wall Street Journal bestseller. It's a USA Today, Indie, Publishers Weekly, every list basically this book made. And what it also told

me that it was also timely, because I'm not teaching you how to like trade options and how to like, you know, buy, you know, do house hacking. Those things are great, but that's not to me, my role in the financial education space is the same role that I played as a preschool teacher to give you the fundamentals so you could do the rest of the things with clarity with and with and with confidence. Yeah. And I think because you, you know, yeah because when I saw you got the New York Times bestseller list, I'm like, that's not a big surprise to me. But I think it's so important because it's like, well, number one, it just goes to show people wanted this.

People were craving this. And there's still such a gap out there, not just for women, but also people of color. You're like one of the main people that I follow. I'm like, she's a person of color. There's not too many people out there. I know there are, but they aren't getting enough attention. And so that's something that we need to talk about. I mean, even just talking about 10 years ago when I started kind of dabbling in personal finance, reading some books and had no idea what I was doing. Like, oh, it's sort of just white men. That's all it was. And I couldn't identify with anybody because I'm like, okay, so they're talking about if I want to start investing this way I need ten thousand dollars what like I

don't understand it's just you know and so there's it's it's nice to see that there is change happening but it definitely needs to happen faster but I'm so glad that I you know you've got this book I can share it with the world because I think it's so so important for people to see themselves in you know their teacher and and understand it because I think what's so, so important for people to see themselves in, you know, their teacher and understand it. Because I think what's special about you is you have a special way of, you know, describing things and expressing things. That's the main thing. You have a special touch that you're like, oh, I like her. I want to be her friend. And she's breaking these concepts down in a way that isn't intimidating and actually makes me want to learn this because it can seem very intimidating.

And there's a lot of judgment in this space, too, like and shame and feelings that we need to talk about. Yeah, I just don't think that there's a place for shame and judgment in education, period. Like whether it's financial education, whether it's preschool education, whether it's because I mean, studies have shown that although shame might get you to start to change, it doesn't maintain the change. You know, and so like I just it's just not a helpful tool and it makes you feel bad. And I just I just don't believe in that. And I, you know, I'm so glad that there's like I see as because of the influx of especially women coming into this space that we're like, no, I don't you know, no, I don't want to feel bad. Like we already feel bad about money. I don't want to feel more bad about my financial situation. And yeah, it's funny sometimes. And it's usually men who are kind of creating this messaging. It's like, if you're not doing it this way, then you're doing it wrong. Like I saw a tweet recently about this. I'm like,

who is this person? And they clearly don't talk to people. And you clearly and I think that's a big reason why you affect people in such a big way is because you talk to people all the time. And so you know how to talk to them, if that makes sense. Whereas I think a lot of people out there are just in their little bubble and have no concept of what people in all, you know, sides of everything and all different kind of income brackets are dealing with. And that's kind of the thing that you really bring to the table. You talk to every single person. And the other thing too, which is why I think people are really drawn to you is you talk about money, which sometimes is a very boring

topic, but in an exciting way. I mean, the, you know, the, your followers are called dream catchers. How exciting. That sounds fun that you actually make it seem exciting and fun to be part of your community. No, I try to make it that way. Because money can be very overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be. And one, you don't have to do it alone. That's why I started dream catchers. So that way you have this kind of safe group. We've got like this Facebook group, it's like almost 500,000 of us. Whoa. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? But I love it because what I learned, I remember when I first started, it was like a few, maybe it was like 20 or 30, then maybe a hundred. And I remember there started to be scenarios that I could not advise on, you know, because in the beginning,

I was like, oh, answering all the questions. And then it would be like, hi, I'm a single mom. And I'm not sure. And I'm like, oh, I'm not a single mom, but what do I do? And I remember the day that someone, because they had been taking the free classes that I had swooped in, it was like, honestly, last year I did this and this helped. And I was like, and that's when it hit me, Tiffany, the purpose of this group is not for you to have all the answers, is to provide the resources to let people find the answers for themselves and then be resources to each other. It was so nice that like, no matter what your situation or circumstance, that you will find someone who has been there, done that and fixed it. And so that's what I just love about Dreamcatchers as a community and a group, because it's hard and you're wanting to

your point, Jessica, you're wanting someone that hard and, you know, and you're wanting to your point, Jessica, you're wanting someone that's reflected in you. So you might be like, I love Tiffany and I'm a woman too, but I was, I'm a, you know, like I'm a single mom. And I would really like to hear from like, how did somebody manage, you know, the holidays, you know, when you have a teenager and they don't understand that there's not enough, you know? And so it's just, I think that's really important. Everyone deserves to see themselves, you know, so that way, you know, they can change where they are and then

come back and help other people too. So yeah, it just, I, when I look back on like all that we've done, it's just felt, it feels really good to just think of like someone I was doing an interview earlier today and she was like, wait, you've got a law and an online school and a group and then this and that. And I'm like, yeah, we've got a lot going on. But it's because you want to know why? Because I wanted to catch you. I want that. Like if you bypass the first safety net, got you on the second, got you on the third, that, you know, you might be someone who's like, I'm not going to read. It's like, oh, that's okay. We got the group. And you might be someone who's like, oh, I'm not going to tell my business in the group. That's okay. We got the podcast. Oh, you know, I don't really listen to podcasts. Oh,

that's okay. We got the book. You see what I mean? So I wanted to make sure that no matter what kind of like when as a teacher, they used to call it differentiated learning, no matter what kind of learner you were, however you absorb information, that there's a resource available to you. So you're not left alone to just figure it out by yourself. Yeah. That's something that I realized several years ago is because when I first started, I started blogging and blogging was kind of the main thing. It was kind of the only thing I feel like podcasts weren't really popular YouTube. I don't think anyone was talking about personal finance. I don't know what you do was doing back then. But it was weird. I didn't go on there. So I don't know what was happening

back then. But it's the thing is, I think and that's also like why there needs to be such reform in schools it's like people learn in different ways I'm a very visual and also auditory learner so I learn a lot from podcasts and videos I have a harder time reading it takes me I have to read like the sentence a couple times you know all that stuff and I realize other people are like that too and so started the blog it was fine didn't love it started the podcast and i'm like whoa this is totally for me because other people you know it's great to hear people like i was doing dishes and listening to you so it's like oh wow you can do your chores and also learn about money how exciting and then i mean i'm assuming do you have like an audiobook for this too yeah

of course yep and then although although brutal i want to tell you, if the author reads the audiobook, please give them some grace and space. Because it's really hard. It is. It's like, it's just really hard. Because you read for like, it took me four days. And so thankfully I was able to break it up like two days and then two days. But because you think to yourself, oh, I talk a lot. And I'll be fine.

No, after day one, your voice is like, help me. And then you have to go back the next day and read for like five to six hours straight. And you're just like, I'm not going to make it. I don't think I'm going to make it. Tell my loved ones I love them. So, but yeah, it was really, really, because I too, and I'm always trying to be conscious when I do an interview, because my natural cadence when I speak, I'm a speak talker. I don't know if that's the Jersey in me or what, or maybe because I have all these sisters and we just used to be like, you know? So as a result, I'm mindful when I do interviews because it sounds slow in my head, but I know it sounds normal to other people, but even more so with a book. Yeah. You know?

So like, can you imagine? It was brutal. Imagine six hours of speaking at a pace that's not your own. Yeah, because you need everyone to listen to every single word. Yes. I was dying because normally I read the book and I'd read it and I'm reading it in my face like, get good with money. Then I'm like, get good with money.

No, but honestly, but when it's all said and done I'm really grateful because it's it leaves a legacy you know when I'm no longer here my voice is left behind on the book that I wrote so it feels awesome yeah and also like the exciting thing too is I still feel like even though I feel like I've been around for a while because it's crazy meeting so many new kind of financial experts influencers influencers, content creators. And they're like, I just started a few years ago. I'm like, well, I feel old. Thank you.

I've been doing this like almost a decade. And they're like, oh, really? Like when I say, oh, I started in 2011. They're like, oh, I started last year. I'm like, oh, my gosh, things have changed since I started this thing. That's for sure. But that's also the exciting thing is like, wow, we're just at the really starting point still of seeing who will come out and share their voice. Like for me, I did not have plans to do this full time. I literally was just like some girl be like,

maybe I'll start a blog. Maybe my friends will read it. But I was just like in my, you know, basement, you know, thinking, okay, I'll just write some nerdy stuff about personal finance. But no plans to I'm like, I didn't think anyone would read it. And it was just for fun. It was just a hobby. And now all these people are coming out. And there's so many great voices and messages and stuff like that. I'm like, this is exciting, actually, because also, it means, hopefully, this, you know, personal finance won't be such a niche thing. I feel like it is becoming more broad. But I mean, yeah, 10 years ago, no one was talking about money. It was the very thing you had to really find that information and really Google. Now people are doing everything on every platform, which is great, which is really

exciting to see, but also you're on every platform too. So they can find you. I'm so curious. You know, I kind of, I I'm so curious cause you've built such a crazy big, you know, kind of business. It started from just like you helping some people doing some coaching to where you are now. How did like, I'm like, if you didn't have like kind of a formal business background, how did you kind of navigate creating this big business? I'm so like, I had a high level and I can't share all your secrets, but I'm like, how did you do that navigate creating this big business? I'm so like, I had a high level. I know you can share all your secrets, but I'm like, how did you do that? That's crazy. Well, so honestly, most of the things I always say, I stumbled and bumbled my way to where we

are now. So in the beginning, my only real goal was if I could just make $500 a month, if I could just make $500 a month, that was it. And so I remember being like, okay, my first kind of foray into trying to make money, I was like, okay, I'm going to charge $100 to help people do a budget, $150 if it's in person. And so nobody wanted to pay the $100 or $150. So I brought it down to $75. I remember I think of the 10 people I I helped only one person had the $75. Um, and even then I was, I worked with her for like hours. It ended up being like, I could have babysat and got more money. So I just remember thinking like, okay, this one-on-one's not really working out because even if someone is willing to pay you after you finish doing their budget with them, most of them were in such dire straits. I didn't feel comfortable taking money. So I was like, okay, so not one

to one. So I called, I had a mentor at the time. She was like, she founded a nonprofit and a lot of her money she came from got came from contracts. And she told me you should try to get a contract. And I was like, how do you do that? She was like, oh, that's up to you to figure out. I'm just, I give you the advice. So I was like, okay. So I had done a lot of volunteer work in different organizations. And I was like, okay. I started to think about, maybe I'm thinking about my, one thing she did tell me, you're thinking about your actual consumer incorrectly. I thought the person that I was serving, the woman on the other end was my consumer. No, not necessarily. The consumer is the person who's actually paying. And so I was like, well,

is there a way I can help her, but get someone else to pay for it? And so I started to think to myself, huh, you know what? There are organizations that already do this. And the United Way in my city in Newark was doing that. They actually had this series of financial education classes. And so the people used to be able to go for free. So I got to help my woman. That's what I call her, like my dream catcher, right? I got to help her. But then the United Way had money because the bank, because it was a nonprofit, banks used to give them money in order to have this program. So the United Way, when I did a lot of volunteer work with them, when I told them about like, you know, Hey, I want to, I was, you know, I would love to do something like this, um, to have maybe

teach some classes. They said, okay. So I wrote this curriculum of a six week course that I would teach once. Um, I would teach every Tuesday and they pay me, I think they started paying me 300 bucks a course, a class, which was like, Oh my God. Right. I was like, that was like 1200 bucks a month. I was like, oh my gosh, now I can move off my sister's couch and into a room. I was only able to rent a room. A friend of mine had found like this really cute brownstone. And there was like, maybe like, I want to say one, two, three, four, five bedrooms. And she was like, you want one of the bedrooms? It's 500 bucks a month. I was like, sure. It was just five women. We were all in the age from, um, in our mid twenties to mid thirties, well to early thirties. And we each rented the room.

Like we were like, it was like a sorority. It felt like, yeah. Um, but it was fun because I was like, okay, these women are all cool. And we all would help each other and cook. And, but it was all we could afford because, um, it was in a college, Newark is a college town. And so it was not uncommon to find like a really beautiful brownstone that rented out by room really for college students. And we were like, yeah, we're not college students, but we're broke like college. So I went from one to one to one to few because standing in front of the classroom, that's few. And I remember thinking, okay, now you're making $1,200 a month regularly. How do I go from one to few to one to many?

That's when I started to think differently because I was like, well, this is limited because I started to do United Way where I was doing it not just Tuesdays, but Tuesdays and Thursdays. And I said, okay, so now I'm not just making 1200 bucks a month. I'm making 2400, which is great, but I don't want to work. Like how many, how many of these do I have to do to get to like a, you know, more money? And I thought, well, what if I could do one to, I didn't even really think of one to many until one of my friends, his brother had just become like junior class president or something. And he's like, oh, come over to the house and we're celebrating. And I was like, okay. Like at his college. And I remember I was like, you know, congratulations. He's like, woohoo.

And he was saying something to his brother. Like, I can't wait to choose our speakers and stuff for the year. And I was like, you guys get to choose speakers, the kids? He's like, I'm not a kid. I'm like, whatever. Cause he's like 18. And I'm like, you know, and he was like, yeah, we get our budget. I was like, dude, we could choose our speakers and we have a budget for about like $1,500 per speaker and we can have however many speakers for the year. And I was like, what? They give the kids the money? And he was like, well, we have an advisor. So obviously they're not going to let us like hire somebody like who would make us unsafe or whatever. And I was like, well, you should have a financial educator come speak. He's like, we should. I'm like, yes, me. And so I started to think, okay, that went from one to one to one to few to one to many, because many was me standing in front of like all of these college students. And then I started to like kind of work the college circuit, like, okay. Like, cause I found that it was actually fairly easy because if you can find a student, oftentimes like two sororities or fraternity sorority would band together and put their budget together and be able to get me for $1,500, sometimes up to $3,000 to $5,000. And I was like, woohoo.

So what would take me a whole month to make, I can now make in one hour. And I said, okay. Then I had written this book when I was still teaching preschool called The One Week Budget. It was my budgeting system. And it wasn't a book at first. It was just my system in a notebook. And a lot of my friends would ask to borrow it so they can do their own. And I thought, well, let me put it in. Amazon had this thing called Create Space at the time, when you could just kind of upload your files. And I had given it to some college student to put it in book form so then I could give it to my friends. And I had given it to some college student to put it like in book form.

So then I could give it to my friends. And I thought, huh, I wonder if I can convince the college or the United Way to also have the book along with me speaking. So now I was able to bump up how much more I made. And Dream Catchers came about because after like two or three years of working with the United Way,

I had all of these students, like, you know, they were grown adults, but like all these people who had taken my courses, who had all these questions, they would email me every day. And I thought Facebook groups just came out. And I said, no more email. If you guys have to join this group, and if you have questions, you ask it here so I can answer it one time and everybody can read it. And that's how it came about. And I was like, you know, we're catching our dreams in this group. You know what, we're dream catchers. And so that's how the group came about. And so then I started to think from one to many, how do you go from one to infinite? You know, like mainly like, you know, so I started to really think bigger and I thought, huh, as I started to speak at the United Way and I started to post on

social media, people who lived in different states wanted to come. And I was like, well, I don't teach in Florida. I'm in Jersey. And I thought, well, what if I could teach in Florida without going to Florida? What if I could take what I'm teaching and put it online? And so I took that six-week course that I'm mostly the night away. I, I, and I put it online and I called it my live richer challenge. And, and, um, I had a challenge for the last year, almost every year for the last five years. And my, my goal for the live richer challenge was to get 10,000 people signed up. And it took me, yeah, it took me a year because I didn't know anything about ads or anything

like that. So organically, it took me a year of basically a begging. I used to post every day. Are you sure you don't want to sign up for my challenge? It's free. People were like, is it really free? And it was. And so the challenge, it took me, after about eight to 12 months,

10,000 people had signed up. We launched it, I want to say, 2014, I think, or January 2015. And that's when really things took off because when people went through the challenge and they were like, wait, it is really free. It's really good. You know? And cause my thought was I was going to maybe get like how I got the United way to pay for me to speak. I was going to get brands to pay for the challenge, but I couldn't, I couldn't convince anyone at first, but what it did do is it grew my audience because those 10,000 people told their friends and they're like, we want to do it again. I was like, it was just kind of like

a one-off thing. They were like, we'll make it now one-off. I was like, okay. So I took, because it was a series of, it was like, I call it a blog course where I would send you an email, say, hey, Jessica, today's lesson, you're going to learn how to budget. Click here. This is what it would say in the email. Click here to take the lesson. And the lesson would just be on my blog because I didn't know how to, I couldn't build a school. So I'm like, whatever, just read the blog post. And that would give you like whatever downloadable you needed. If I needed to make a video, I would do a video on my computer and put it on YouTube. And then like with YouTube, you could just put it on your blog. So that's how I

taught those classes. And so I automated it. And I was like, oh, on the back end of the email, you can literally just say someone can sign up and it will automatically kick out a daily lesson from my literature challenge. And within three months, I went from 10,000 people who took the challenge to 20. And now over a million people five years later have taken one or more of my live richer challenges. So that's how the business grew. I feel like you were kind of a pioneer in that you were one of the first people to do something like that. Like thinking of 2014, like no one was doing that in 2014. Like no one knew how to do an email funnel and no one was talking about that stuff. I didn't even know what that was.

Yeah, exactly. I was not techie. I was like, okay, so how do I teach this class? I was like, well, I can't put all this information in email. Well, what if I just say, here's the email, but click this link to go to the blog post. So the blog is where I could put all this stuff. So I wasn't conscious of what I was really doing was building a holistic brand because one, I was capturing your email. I didn't realize that. Two, I was sending you to my blog. I didn't realize that. Three, I remember I had seen somebody had posted, it was like this click to tweet that they had in their blog. And I thought that was cool. So I was like, I put those in there like, oh, if you want to click to tweet out the main lesson from today's lesson. And then people started following me on Twitter. And then I didn't

realize I was also building up my Facebook kind of community because what happened was that people who took the Liberture Challenge found the Dreamcatcher group that was really for the United Way folks and said, can we join this? And I was like, at first I was like, no, it's not for you. I didn't really, literally, that's what I said. And they were like, no, but I have questions. I'm like, oh, you're going to be emailing me incessantly. Fine, fine, fine, fine. So they joined the Dreamcatcher group on Facebook that was originally for my United Way students. And then I didn't realize, oh, you're building your Facebook following, you know? And so what happened was, it was just like the circle that it wasn't like people think like, oh, Tiffany, you were so savvy.

I'm like, no, this was me not knowing how to use tech. So creating this like clunky roundabout way to get you that information and not realizing what it was doing was it was introducing how to use tech. So creating this like clunky roundabout way to get you that information and not realizing what it was doing was it was introducing you to all of my platforms and building a larger brand. And I just learned to listen. So the first challenge in particular, I remember someone said, this is great, but I don't want to read all this on my, on my computer. Can you put it in a book? And I was like, why would you pay for a book? The challenge is free. Don't be silly. The things people will pay for, you know? And then like maybe three or four people were like, please. And I was like, waste your money if you want to. So I asked the same kid that put my, my, my budget stuff in a

book. I was like, Hey, can you put like these blog posts for the literature challenge inside like a book format uploaded to Amazon? And he did. And I remember it took the one week budget two years to really start selling. And it took Liberture Challenge two days. And that was the first time I made any real money. I don't want to say real money, but like, I remember that in that January, when that Liberture Challenge first launched, that book sold $10,000 worth of books. I couldn't believe it. I was like, wait, what?

So I was like, what? Because I'd never made anywhere close to that. It was like, you know, a few thousand here, a few thousand there. But here I thought, I'm doing the challenge. It's free. I wasn't able to get it sponsored. Oh, well for me. But it's free to the audience.

But they bought enough books to pay to run for me to continue to run the challenge. It's free. I wasn't able to get it sponsored. Oh, well for me, but it's free to the audience, but they bought enough books to pay to run for me to continue to run the challenge. And I thought, wow. And that's when I was like, okay, how do I think more savvy? The next challenge I already had the book ready. Same thing. It sold really well. And so from there, I just learned to listen and to develop things that people ask me for, you know, that's why I think, yeah, people, you know, again, why you've kind of organically built such a huge and loyal community is because you did it. You were just giving people what they were actually asking you for. And you didn't get into this really to make money. It was to help yourself.

And then, oh, I'll help my friends. Oh, they have friends and friends. So I'll help them. And then you're like, well, I guess I can help other people. And that's, and that's, I think, you know, why your brand is so successful is because it's like, oh, Tiffany, I feel like I can trust her. She's not going to sell me some rich quick scale. Yes. I always, I call it the gotcha gotcha. I'm like, oh, I do not believe in the gotcha gotcha because people come to me all the time. Oh, Tiffany, can you sell this credit card? No. Can you? No, no, no. I literally could probably make five to 10 times what I make now if I said yes to even half the stuff that people send to me.

And I'm like, so that's like being a school teacher and selling like, you know, drugs outside of like your desk, you know, you're like, what, how do I say I'm a teacher here to teach and help kids? And then I'm like, well, on the side of the little drug deal and on the desk, you know, you're like, what, how do I say I'm a teacher here to teach and help kids? And then I'm like, well, on the side of a little drug deal and on the side, you know, you know, I just don't believe in that. And so I say, no, I have something called my Lisa rule. So my, my baby sister who's now in her thirties, but still she's the youngest. Her name is Lisa. And I used to have this rule where before I shared anything with y'all, like whether it was like an app or any sort of resource, I would ask myself, would I use this? And then I would use it.

I'm like, yeah, I would. So I would share it. But it wasn't until one day I sent out, it was an app. I think it was like Digit or some app, but I like Digit. Yeah. But I didn't remember. I didn't remember sending. So I sent out an email just saying, hey, this is an app that I'm using that I really like.

And Lisa texted me and was like, oh, thanks so much for today's email. I totally signed up for the app. And my heart dropped. I said, wait, what app? I called her. I was like, what app did you sign up for? And she was like, slow down. Sheesh. I signed up for Digit. And I thought to myself, why are you freaked out, Tiffany? If the thing you sent to your whole list is good, why were you scared that Lisa signed up for it? And I realized that me using it wasn't enough because I'm actually a lot more lax with myself because I felt like, oh, no, if I use it, you know, it must be good. No, Lisa became the new measuring pole because I am hypersensitive over her journey. And so people know, does it pass my Lisa rule? So there are things that literally I use that I don't share with you guys because it doesn't pass my Lisa rule. I don't think to myself, if Lisa were to

sign up for this and call me on the phone, that wouldn't have a heart attack. Like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It needs some more research. So I always ask myself before I do anything, does this pass my Lisa rule? If Lisa signs up for this without letting me know, would I be upset by that? And if the answer is like, well, nope, then the answer is no, I don't share it. Even if I'm using it and loving it, because there's some risk there that I'm not willing to take with Lisa's journey. And so that's what's helped me a lot to along this path is that, you know, really having those kinds of like checkers, you know, in place for myself. So I don't ever really, you know, I've haven't, you know, knock on wood, haven't had any like budget Mr. Scandal, you know, but I also to try to own up like, um, like I'll give you an

example. Like I made a mistake. I like, I don't know, maybe like seven years ago, a friend of mine who was like a genius when it came to student loans. So she helped me get like $18,000 of my student loan forgiven. Oh, wow. And her service was $400. And I was like, okay. I'm like, that's nothing.

I got 18,000 forgiven. And she said, hey, Tiffany, I actually wrote a book that shows step-by-step how, you know, like the stuff that I told you to do. I was like, great. And her book was like $24. And I was like, no, no. How about you sell to the dream catchers for like a discount?

And she sold it. She's like, okay, I can do like seven bucks or eight bucks. I was like, perfect. So she, I, the mistake I made was I did not read the book because I'm like, but she walked me through. I was like, you know, I'm like, I don't even need it. Like whatever she said is fine because look how she helped me. It works. It works. It works. Yeah. Let's just say she's a really good teacher, a terrible writer. I can see that she, not everybody knows how to articulate the thing that they know in writing. Like looking at the book, I can understand what she meant. I'm like, oh, that's when she told me

to call and say this. And that's when she told me that. But I'm like, it doesn't make sense in this book. So she, I sent it out to my whole list and said, hey, list, this is how my friend helped me, you know, get $18,000 forgiven. She's going to help you.

Here's her book. I said, press send to like my 50,000 email list book at the time. It was like my friend, Catherine email list book at the time it was like my friend katherine was the first person to text me she said um did you did you read that book i was like no i was kind of busy she's like i think you need to read the book it was like so poorly written i was like oh my goodness so my audience was like like they at first they were like is this some sort of scam they weren't like i never made a mistake like that before yeah yeah yeah and i remember i was like, like they, at first they were like, is this some sort of scam? They weren't like, I'd never made a mistake like that before. And I remember I was like, okay. So what I decided to do,

I was like, I'm going to give people three options. They can immediately get their money back. I called my friend and I said, you know how you walk me through step-by-step, would you be willing to do a class? You know, where literally the way you like, that's what, where you actually shine and people can use their book as a ticket to the class. You know? So I was like, you know, where literally the way you like, that's what, where you actually shine and people can use their book as a ticket to the class. Yes. You know, so I was like, you know, so those were the choices. I was like, you can either get a total refund. I'm so sorry. Or you can use your book to the, a ticket to the class. And if you still are dissatisfied, we'll still give you your money back. And so people were still really angry. I remember the Facebook group was lit. And I said,

I told my admins at the time, do not delete any of the angry comments because it's deserving. So instead I created like a, um, like, um, like, uh, um, Hey, this is Tiffany. I'm so sorry. Like a copy and paste. It probably was like three, 400 people, you know, Hey, this is Tiffany. I'm so sorry. You're absolutely right. I should have read the book. This is, as I mentioned, this is how she helped me. She charged me 400. I thought $7 is such a steal, but I realized now that quite honestly, you know, that she's a really good teacher, but she doesn't not a great writer, but here's your choices. You can ask for your money back, click here to do so, or you can take the class. And so like I literally, it was, I mean, it probably was a good 48 hours of

like copy paste, copy paste, the same thing to all the emails that came through. People were livid. And I will say about one third of the people asked for their money back and we gave it back to them. And then two thirds were like, Tiffany, you know what? You've never been dishonest before. And I can understand the mistakes. So let's take the class. And when I tell you, she blew not just them out of the water, me out of the water. It was so good. And she stayed on and answered every single question. So class was supposed to be an hour. She talked for two hours and did an extra hour of Q&A. And people were like, Tiffany, I get it. You're right.

Your friend is amazing. But she's a terrible writer. Not everyone should write a book. What's so great about that is that the messages I got after were like, I'm so sorry. My message was really harsh to you, Tiffany, but I understand now. And then so the lesson I learned there is that not that you can't make mistakes, that you hold up to them and you try to fix them in an honest way. And so that's the way I've navigated business is with transparency. And I haven't had

like a huge mistake like that, you know, because I'm more mindful. I read the book now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm more mindful now. But I just think that it's important as business owners to understand that if you're in service to people, then serve people that money, you know, it is possible to, to do good work, to help good people and to make good money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the things that I mean, as I've been in this space for a while, and I think a lot of people and like yourself, you've been doing this for a while, and you're going to continue to do this for a while, which is why it's so important in our spaces

to really be protective of our audiences. And I think lots of people, I mean, I assume like lots of people like listening, you know you know to this show it's like they they know me if they've been listening for this you know entire time it's been six years and it's like yeah like yourself it's like I'm so careful what I put out there and it is a lot of work just to be that careful and cognizant of what you kind of put out there but yeah you can still make mistakes and all you can do is like okay I guess this is a mistake and I'll own it and then, you know, try to rectify the situation and move forward. And especially if all the things you've done before has really been a testament to your character that a mistake can be made and be like, okay, you know, well, the Tiffany I've known thus far is not like that. So, you know, if she's made this mistake, let me give her a chance to explain and then to, you know, to remedy it. And so, yeah, it's like, I have such a great relationship with my audience because of my, you know, because I, you know, at the end of the day,

I'm here to help and to serve. Like a teacher is truly like a public servant. Yeah. Yeah. And again, like you're a good listener and that's the key thing, right? Yeah. As I've gotten older, I'm I'm like yeah the best skill you can really have is to listen and so many of us don't so we all need to get a little bit better that I feel like I've gotten better at that a little bit still a ways to go but yeah anyways I I could probably talk to you forever because you're you're such a I mean you're such a great talker of course you have a podcast it makes sense. And you're a speaker and a teacher. So, of course, it's been such a pleasure having you on the show. I look forward to having you again on the show because I'm sure there's going to be another book down the road. Take some time off, of course.

I'm sure you need it. But down the road, I look forward to seeing what you're going to be doing in the future. Thank you. Can I share where everybody can get the book from? Should they want it? One hundred percent. Where can people find you? Grab a copy of the book. So, I am the budget niece on all the future. Thank you. Can I share where everybody can get the book from? Should they want 100% where can people find you grab a copy of the book? So I am the budget needs to have all the platforms on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, I am on TikTok. I think I'm gonna start

TikTok and we're gonna see. I couldn't do the TikTok. I'll tell you what it was too much for me. But I feel like you would be so good on TikTok. I'm going to see, I'm going to see. And then if you wanted to grab the book, the title of the book is also the website title, getgoodwithmoney.com. And you can pick wherever you'd like to get the book from. And hopefully you too will be 10 steps closer to achieving financial wholeness. Amazing.

And I'm sure too, because we've mentioned all the other resources, you have so many resources. So that Live Richer movement, that's age appropriate. But yeah, all of that is available and the literature challenge, the free challenges, all available at thebudgetnista.com. Amazing.

Well, thanks again for coming on the show. It was a pleasure having you. Thank you for having me, Jessica. And that was episode 284 of the More Money Podcast with Tiffany Aliche, the budgetnista. Make sure to follow her on all of the socials. So you can find her on Twitter and Instagram at the

Budgetnista. You can find her website, thebudgetnista.com. And she's, of course, on Facebook. And she also has a YouTube channel. I mean, she's got everything. Also, make sure to grab a copy of her book, Get Good With Money. You can find more information about it at getgoodwithmoney.com. I will also include links to all of the things that I just mentioned. So it's easy to find in the podcast episode show notes. So just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 284 to check that out. So as always, I have some announcements.

I've got some things to share with you. So do not go away. I just want to share a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by TD Direct Investing. June is Options Education Month, and TD Direct Investing is hosting a number of free virtual events throughout the month to educate both beginners and more advanced investors about, well, their options with trading options. Or if you want a full walkthrough of options trading for beginners, there are also a number of on-demand video lessons that will walk you through what options are, common option terms,

such as calls and puts, what the difference between in the money and out of the money options are, and a whole bunch more. To learn more and to find out what free events you'd like to check out, visit td.com slash options education month. Once again, to find out what webinars, masterclasses, and on-demand video lessons are available to view for free, visit td.com slash options education month. Okay, so obviously the big thing is giving away a copy of her book, the book Get Good With Money. If you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contests, you'll see I'm giving away her book. I'm giving away 10 other books. I'm giving away a ton of books, guys, because I love reading and I love to spread, you know, the good. I like to spread joy and like to gift people things. And one thing you may not

actually realize is I actually buy these books myself. So I'm supporting all these authors who come on the show, but I also mail these to you if you are the winner myself. So you will get a nice little kind of note from myself, a little message. And yes, it is sent directly from me. So something kind of exciting to look forward to. So make sure to enter to win.

You can go to jessicamorales.com slash contest for more information on that. Like I also mentioned in last week's episode, I did recently do two webinars called the Five Secrets to Building Wealth in Canada. And I will most likely be doing some more very soon. I'll have more information about all that shortly, but how you can keep up to date with all of my things, my virtual events and stuff that I'm up to is, well, first, follow me on Instagram at Jessica I. Morehouse, and also get onto my email list, jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe. And one thing you may not realize is I have a bunch of free resources for you, budget spreadsheets, worksheets, cheat sheets, you name it. I've got it in my free resource library on my website.

If you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash resources, log in, it does put you on my email list. You can unsubscribe if you want to, but why would you want to? Because I have so many exciting things coming down the pike, as they say, or as I have said for my whole life, pipe. I didn't know it was pike. Anyways, so definitely stay on my email list because lots of exciting things that I'm going to share throughout the summer. But yeah, lots of freebies that you can download for free. You may also not know that I do a regular kind of AMA, ask me whatever the heck you want, and I'll give you an answer every Tuesday at around 12 noon Eastern time on my Instagram. I also have a YouTube channel where,

you know, instead of doing guest interviews, which I love doing on this podcast, obviously, making specific videos on my YouTube channel. So, you know, I've made ones about just, you know, things that I feel that people want to know about. And they clearly do. I've done a ton of videos about if you're self-employed in Canada, what you should know about taxes, income taxes, sales tax, CPP, all that kind of stuff. As a self-employed person, I really do know what it's all about. I've been self-employed for a number of years. I do lots of videos on investing.

I actually walk you through my investment account. And yeah, lots of great things going on there. So you can find it at JessicaMoorhouse.com slash YouTube or just go to YouTube, Google my name, you'll find it, subscribe, you will not be disappointed. So right now that is that is all I've got to share. But like I also mentioned in last week's episode, this season of the show is going to go on for a little bit longer than normal. I'm going to wrap this up the second week of July. It looks like currently the calendar looks like on Friday, July 9th, that will be my final episode because actually the final week of the show, I will be doing three episodes. Oh, and also I should mention that, you know, in the coming weeks, I will sometimes have two episodes

in one week. So next, not next week, but the following week, there's gonna be two episodes. And then the following week after that, also two episodes, and then three episodes. So lots of exciting episodes to come. So lots of things to look forward to. Anyways, that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening to the end of this episode. I will see you back here next Wednesday, where I have a guest who we're going to talk about retirement and procrastinating. So lots of exciting things to look forward to. So thank you again for listening. A big shout out and thank you to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. I will see you back here next Wednesday. So stay safe and have a good rest of your week.