More Money Podcast - 293 Bite-Sized Personal Finance Tips - Chris Browning, Financial Analyst & Host of Popcorn Finance and This Is Awkward

Episode Date: September 22, 2021

I may have found another internet twin in my guest on the podcast today! Fellow podcast host and Financial Analyst Chris Browning is joining me today to talk about his false start as an art major in college, which led him to eventually pursue a career in finance (and podcasting!).  Chris is the creator and host of Popcorn Finance, a short-form personal finance podcast, as well as the co-host of the call-in money advice show This is Awkward. Chris began producing podcasts in 2017, which led him to create his own show, Popcorn Finance, a podcast discussing finance in about the time it takes to make a bag of popcorn. Chris and I talk about how he started his career in finance and why he wanted to make his own podcast. We also talk about the pitfalls of being in a time of information overload and why that can be dangerous when it comes to misinformation about investing and get rich quick schemes. I really enjoyed having Chris on the show and would love to have him be a guest again in the future! For full episode show notes visit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, no, no. Welcome back to the more money podcast. My name is Jessica Morehouse. I'm your host of the show. This is episode 293. And this is season 13. Guys, welcome to a brand new season of the podcast. Season 13. I have a good feeling about because and no one knows this besides anyone, you know, people in my family, but the number 13 is our family's lucky number. I don't know why. I don't know how it started, but we always talk about, yeah, lucky 13. So, you know, for example, I got married in 2013, lucky 13, still married, fingers crossed. Everything's, everything's fine. No, everything's fine. And there was a couple other things I feel like that happened

in 13. So I can't remember now, but I feel like, you know, if ever we win, like, you know, a lottery ticket or something, the number 13 is involved. Anyways, there's some good feelings about this season of the show. And this, you know, last half of 2021. Very, very excited to get to it. And I'm gonna start this season with a great episode with a fellow podcaster. So you know, it's gonna be good. I've got Chris Browning on the show. He's the host of popcorn finance. He's also a co host if that you know, wasn't enough. He has another podcast called This is awkward with actually my last guest on you know, season 12 was Allison Baker Lee from inspired budget. She also now has a podcast of that name. And they co host a show called This is awkward. So very excited to a podcast of that name. And they co-host a show called This

is Awkward. So very excited to have him on the show. He has some great money advice and also just this story of getting to where he is now, educating people about personal finance in his fun kind of short form podcast, which is very unique. It was crazy when we're chatting and you're probably going to find this annoying, but who cares? In the podcast, there are so many times where I'm like, oh my God, that is me. That is literally me. We had so many parallels between our lives, which is so crazy because we're obviously different people, live in different countries, different backgrounds. It's weird how similar our journeys were, which kind of makes, I kind of like that because

it makes me feel like, oh, I'm not alone. It's actually kind of a small world and there's so many things that we can relate about. Um, so you're going to love this episode, but before I get to it, let's talk a little bit about today's podcast episode sponsor. And you know what? I decided to sponsor it myself because, um, throughout this summer, I've been onboarding new students to my wealth building blueprint for Canadians course. And I realized, Hey, I need to take this opportunity at the top of my show to tell you about it in case you're new or you just have no idea about it. So it is called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. It's an online course specifically about how to be a passive investor in Canada. So specific to Canadians,

everything in there is applicable if you're Canadian or new to Canada. And yeah, it'll show you just really start from the fundamentals of investing what you need to know, but then we'll walk you to the point where you can build your own investment plan and then start investing in a passive way. And what that means is investing in a diversified portfolio of low cost ETFs or index ETFs specifically, so you can grow your wealth long term. So if you were looking for something about, you know, hot stocks, or you had to get rich on cryptocurrency, or just had to get rich quick. Yeah, this isn't for you. This is not I don't believe in that type. I feel like that is a kind of gambling that is not investing.

So if you want to, you know, learn how to invest for the long term for your big goals like home down payment in a very expensive city like Toronto or Vancouver or for retirement or to retire early, this is the course for you. So if you want to learn more about this course, well, you can apply at jessicamorehouse.com slash WBB. That is jessicamorehouse.com slash WBB. That is JessicaMorehouse.com slash WBB. Or you can just check out the show notes for this episode. That is JessicaMorehouse.com slash 293. Okay, without further ado, let's get to that interview with Chris Browning. Perfect. Welcome, Chris, to the More Money Podcast. So excited to have you on. Big fan. I feel like I started following you on social media a few years ago and just been creeping on you ever since. And then I'm like, you know, I should probably reach out to him and stop creeping and ask him to be on my show. So here you are. I'm so happy. Thank you so much. That's too much information. But I'm like,

I think that's actually what it's like. I don't know you at all, but I feel like I do because I've been following you for so long. So it's such a pleasure to have you on the show. No, thank you. I actually feel the same way. I've been following you as well. I see your videos. I'm like, you put together such great videos. So you're like my inspiration. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. That is so kind of you to say. So I love interviewing fellow podcasters, especially, you know, people who've been, you know, so successful and doing something very unique. And I feel like, you know, we kind of chatted about this before we hit the record button. There's a lot of podcasts out there. And so it's kind of hard, I'd say, to differentiate yourself from all the different

podcasts out there, but you do such a good job. I mean, I really like just like the kind of concept of popcorn finance in that you want to give people this kind of bite size, but really important information in the time it'll take to make a bite, make a popcorn, maybe a bit longer, maybe a few bags of popcorn sometimes. I'm like, how long does it take you to do a popcorn? So it's like a minute or two. But still, let's say a bunch of different bags of popcorn for the whole family. So I thought that was so interesting, especially since most podcasts like myself are like long form. So it's like, we're going to be, I mean, you're going to be on the show for like 30 to 40 minutes. So I think it's great to have something different,

especially for people who are just like, just give me the information, which I hear all the time. But before we really dive into your, to your podcast and all that kind of stuff, what I find also very interesting is by day, you are a financial analyst. So you're not just someone who's just talking about whatever they want on your own podcast. You know what you're talking about for sure. What inspired you? Can you give us a little insight into your background? I always am curious, why would anyone want to become a financial analyst? Because when you hear that title, you're like, that to me gives me anxiety. Like that does not sound like fun. That sounds stressful and intense. So what kind of inspired

you to get into that line of work? You know, financial analyst is one of those titles that really doesn't mean anything. Like you can be doing so many different things and have that same title. For me, what kind of makes it kind of relevant to what I do is I focus on budgeting for an organization. So I help them manage their, specifically their revenue. So I monitor the millions of dollars of revenue that come in and forecast out how much we think we're going to get, how much we think we're going to spend, is something going to happen in the future? That's what I do. So it's kind of, it's pretty relevant to the whole world of personal finance, just on a much larger scale.

Budgeting, but on a different, different scale. Yeah. With way more commas than are in my bank account. So there's probably a lot more pressure, though, because you're not just dealing with like one person's budget. It's like this can affect the whole company and all the people in it. Yeah. You know, there's a little more pressure. But the good thing is I'm not an accountant. If I was accounting, that type of work is not for me. It's so tedious, but when I get to budget, it's almost like you just kind of thinking what could happen if it doesn't happen, you're not in trouble. You're like, well, these were just projections. So that's true. It's like, I didn't make up the numbers.

They were just there. I'm just providing the numbers. Yeah. You're right. That's always the best caveat. Whenever you're talking to someone about investing or, you know, what do you think will happen? It's like, well, I don't know, per se, but I'm just, you know, my own thoughts on this and my own opinions. But, you know, don't quote me on that. Exactly. Exactly. Wow. So what kind of got you interested? Like, were you always interested in personal finance in kind of the financial world? Actually, no, not really. I went into college as an art major. So did I. That's interesting. Yeah. I've like went to film school, oddly enough. Because we just had a conversation about how I'm so not good with technology and equipment. Somehow I have a degree in that. What did you study?

So I went in as an art major because my dream was to work at Pixar. That's what I thought I was going to do. I loved like making like 3d models and making it like environments on the computer. We're using like these old Macs. I mean, now thinking back how old those computers were, we had to use, there weren't flash drives, weren't really a thing. When I was in high school. We used zip disc, which was just really fast. I remember zip disc. Right? And I'm like, wow, technology has come a long way. But I thought that's what I was going to do because I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, but I just knew I was really fascinated by that. So I went to school, I was in art classes, I was in my first semester and

I was like, oh, I'm not as passionate about this as all these other people. Like these people seem prepared. Like they're like locked in. Like this is their thing, arts, their, their life. And I'm like, I'm a fan of this stuff, but it wasn't, I didn't feel the same. I noticed it. You could just tell the difference. Like when you're around a bunch of people who really care about something and you just kind of like it, it's, it's, you're just different. You're not, you're not fitting in. Yeah. You're like, Oh, there's, there's a difference between me. That's literally why I did not pursue film after graduating. I'm like, Oh, so everyone here is totally cool being a starving artist and dying for their,

their project. And I'm like, well, you know, I don't like to be cold outside. So I don't know if I want to be, you know, in Vancouver on set. Um, I don't like getting up early at, you know, it just didn't actually fit with anything that I actually liked in my own personal life. So yeah, I kind of realized, you know, like it, but I don't think I want, this is my, my true passion. I thought it was. And then you, you study it a lot and then you're like, Hmm, maybe not quite. Cause I feel like at least with me now, and I don't know if you can agree but because I am such a huge money nerd I'm like personal finance is 100% my passion which is so odd but it is because I get I love it so much like I really just I think about it all the time I want to talk about it all the time and I

don't think I actually ever really felt like that in film school I always kind of felt like they let me in somehow and I'm like oh my god someone's gonna like the imposter syndrome someone's gonna find out that I don't know what I'm doing and somehow got a degree. And I'm like, OK, I guess I, you know, fooled them all and then decided to do something totally different. So so, yeah. At what point in your your program did you're like, oh, I don't know if this is for me. I think I'm going to do something a bit different.

You know, it didn't take me very long. It was it was my second semester, about halfway through. I remember they gave us this project. So the way I thought, this is how I thought it was going to happen. I get into college, I show up, they give me a Mac and I'm going to sit there and I'm going to make these great animation, you know, films. That's not what happens at all. You have to learn all the foundational pieces. And so we had to do a two-dimensional art and three-dimensional art class and i thought that involved computers it did not that was all hand drawing and hand sculpting which was not my strength at all so my i get this three-dimensional art class and the thing that kind of just like

solidified for me i was like i'm in the wrong place. Like, we're going to make these sculptures and they're made out of toothpicks and each sculpture has like eight sticks, but each stick is two toothpicks taped together. And you're going to have to make 40 of these. And I was like, I come clearly in the wrong place because I have no desire whatsoever to work on this project. I'd rather not. And so I was like, okay, I'm in this like this existential crisis of, well,

what am I going to do with my life? Because my parents were like, are you sure you want to be an art major? Don't you want to eat? Don't you want a place to live? My parents asked me that too. They're like, are you okay being poor for the rest of your life?

I'm like, and at the time I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'm poor now. So, you know, like I'm like,

I know cause I'm like, I'm a broke student. So like, if it's, I don't know, I guess it's fine. And then you get older, you're like, it's not fine. I don't cause I'm like, I'm a broke student. So like, if it's, I don't know, I guess it's fine. And then you get older, you're like, it's not fine. I don't want to be a poor artist anymore.

It's not fun. You have no concept of money, really, of what you need to live. And like, they were in the back of my mind. Plus I was starting to realize, you know, I'm not, I don't really care about this as much. And just pure coincidence. Like this is just by chance. They give us a, you know, a list of all of the general education classes you need to take to get your degree. And, you know, there's like

20 different things in each category. Like there's a wide range of classes you can take. I just happened to pick a personal finance class that fit into one of those categories. And I was in that class and I was like, this is really interesting. You were talking about the stock market and investing and all these things that I knew nothing about, but was always, I was like, this is really interesting. You're talking about the stock market and investing and all these things I knew nothing about, but I was always kind of interested. Like, you know, that sounds interesting, but you know, that's not for me. But the way this class was handled and presented, I was like, maybe I want to do finance. Maybe this could be my thing. My mom was an accountant. Okay, yeah. maybe this could be my thing. My mom was an accountant. All right. And so I kind of had, like, you know, I didn't want to be an accountant, but I kind of had the exposure to the finance world, the business world. So I went in, I looked at the program and I found that it had a, um, a financial planning track within, like, so you could do like, it had this weird breakdown. It's like my degree was, you know, it's business administration, but then there's a concentration

in, um, finance. And then there's an there's a concentration in finance. And then there's an emphasis they had in financial planning. And I was like, that sounds, I think that sounds pretty interesting. So I went that semester to the art department and I said, I would like to not be an art major anymore. And I went to the business department and said, I would like to be a business major. And at that point I went and switched over and kind of changed my path. Now, did you did because, you know, now you're a financial analyst, did you ever think of becoming, you know, a financial planner and taking that track and setting up your own shop and stuff like that? That was my plan. So I was like, you know what, I'm going I had this different, you know, I had no concept of how the world works,

and how you make money and all these things. And so in my mind, I don't know how I thought it was going to work, but I was going to teach people about money for maybe not free, but it wasn't going to cost them that much money because, you know, people don't have money and they're trying to learn. So I don't know what I thought was going to happen, but in my mind, I was going to help people who didn't have money learn more about this stuff. And I graduate, it was, I believe, 2009, right in the middle of the big recession here in the US. That is when I graduated too. It's like we're twins. We're following very similar paths here, I'm saying. Very similar paths. That's crazy.

And it was like, I could not find a job. And the only things that were being offered to me were just straight sales jobs that sound, like the interview went like this. So what we typically do is have you write down all your friends and family down their names or email and their phone number. And then that's how we're going to start you building your business. And I'm like, this does not sound like a good idea. So yeah, I was actually working at a bank as a banker and I got like my investment licenses and I'd stayed there. I just stayed there for another two years after college because I couldn't find other work. And just was at another crisis of like, well, what do I do with my life now? And because my mom was an accountant, she somehow brainwashed me into taking accounting work. And yeah, I did that for several years.

And did you still not like it? Because you're like, no, accounting isn't for me. Oh, it was horrible. It was horrible. It was too bad. I always kind of think I'm like, you know what? I think I would have liked accounting, actually. I like accounting for my own business.

But I don't know if that would have translated into doing it for other people. I'm not sure. I think it's different when you count your own money versus counting other people's money. Yeah, you're right. That's true. It was not for me. I actually ended up managing several different payroll departments. And I was just like, oh, is this where I'm at now? Yeah, this is life, huh? Yeah. Gosh, yeah. I definitely also had that kind of quarter life crisis of I worked a job that, looking back, I'm like, it was actually

totally fine. It just had nothing to do with what I wanted to do was in sales and marketing for a newspaper, a failing industry, which was very, you know, not a very, you know, safe place to work. But, you know, I was there for three years. And then you're like there and you're like, what am I doing with my life? This is not what I everyone kind of had this idea of what life would be after college. You're doing it right. You got your degree. You're so smart. And then you're like, well, this isn't what I signed up for. I'm miserable. And I'm in my mid twenties. Is this what the rest of my life is going to feel like? So, so, you know, it sounds like you came to that same juncture. What did you do to kind of switch paths so you could eventually, you know, get to

where you are right now, which seems like you're finally figured out a way to help people, you know, get better with money and free because your podcast. So what was the thing that kind of made you make a pivot? So I found myself at all of my jobs, like being the one who's showing people how to like, set up their retirement plans, answer their questions. Even when I was working at the bank, and I was studying being the one who was showing people how to like set up their retirement plans, answer their questions. Even when I was working at the bank and I was studying for my, my licenses, I would be the one like holding like study sessions for everyone else

because I'm like, Oh, I know this stuff. Like I already learned a lot of these things in school. And for most of them, it was like their first time being introduced to these terms and concepts. So we would have like study sessions. I'd be like on the whiteboard, like, okay, this is what this means. This is how this is what a bond is. This is how stocks work. Like I was, I found myself just like being that person in all these different environments. And I was like, this is, this is

fun. I enjoy doing this. And I live in Southern California and all we do is drive. Oh yeah. Oh, sorry. I'm just like, oh, that sounds nice. You're like, oh, traffic. Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. If you want really expensive houses and sitting in hours of traffic, California is amazing. I mean, we got that here in Toronto, but worse weather. So. Well, you know, I actually went to Toronto for the first time a couple of years ago. Oh, yeah. I loved it. I loved it. You did? Because most people hate it. Well, I didn't go in the winter. I think it depends on like where you're coming from but I got a friend who is originally from Vancouver and then now lives in Hawaii with

her family and she we did a little house swap and I think we definitely got the better swap because we went to Hawaii and she's like Toronto was interesting like she definitely thought it was a bit dirty you know and like a very big city and you know if you're coming from Hawaii I can see where you're like, this isn't better than Hawaii. There's few places that you can come, you can go to versus Hawaii and say, this is better. Like, that's not that many. But I'm glad you like Toronto because, yeah, it's a good city. It's a good city.

But California sounds like that's the dream for me. That's my husband. That's what his dream is. He's like, can we move to California in a day? I'm like, we'll see. We'll see. It's overrated. It is great though. I love living here. I don't know where else I would live in the US, but there's a lot of people here. There's a lot of us here in this area. You spend

a lot of time sitting in traffic. And so I built up this habit of just listening to podcasts. I could listen to so many podcasts constantly. And actually in college, my friend had a video game podcast that no one listened to. And I helped him edit it. And we would talk and have fun. And it was just more so fun for us all to hang out. And so I was like, what if I made a podcast? What if that was my way of teaching personal finance and talking about this stuff? And I came up with the idea and the concept.

And then I just sat on it for three years. I did nothing. Really? Yeah. Why? I was too scared. I was nervous. I was like, what if it sucks?

What if nobody listens to it? Oh, that's everybody. That's 100% what went through my mind. And that's now, after talking to so many people over all these years as I'm now in my mid-30s, I'm like, everyone has the exact same thought about any new idea. So we're all in the same boat of just perpetual fear of failure. But you're like, but you'll never know if you don't do it. So what pushed you to eventually just do it, get going?

So I talked to a few friends and family about it over those three over the three-year period oh that sounds interesting that sounds like a good idea i think you should do it so i was like well maybe and i'm like really into technology like i really like tech websites and i listen to tech podcasts and this app came out and i think it was called it was called anchor and yeah you could like make it from your phone and it was free and I was like well you know why I was like why not like what are my excuses I didn't have a microphone so that was my excuse for all that time and so I remember I went to my car I set up the account I was at work that day when I found out about it and I went I was

clearly not working cuz I was on the internet and I went to my car I to my car, I set it up, and I started recording from my car. So I would record this audio. And at the time, the way the app worked, it was kind of like an Instagram story where it disappeared after 24 hours. Yeah, I remember that. Completely different how it is now. So for a month, I would record these little segments and a few people would respond to me, but you couldn't save them.

And so I basically like, when you look back at the history of my show for popcorn finance, there's about a month prior to that, where I was just recording things that don't exist anymore. Cause there's no way to save it. So much work lost. When you think about that, you're like, it could have been so good. And now it's yeah. Yeah. I'm glad they changed.

Cause I'm like, why would I want to create, like, I get Insta stories cause usually they're not like amazing, but yeah, for like a kind of podcast concept, why would you want that to disappear? Exactly. But I'm so happy that it doesn't exist because that was, they were horrible. I'm sure. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Whereas mine exist and have, and some people find them like, oh my God, I should really get rid of those. Like it was, they not good. They're not good. So you had like a good month of practice before you're like, Okay, now this is the real podcast. Exactly. Before something actually got saved to the history of the internet forever. Mm hmm. That's amazing. And well, clearly it, you know,

I always think it's like it would have been so cool to see, you know, the evolution if you started three years earlier. But no matter when you started it, clearly it was meant to be. Maybe the timing was right when you started because I always kind of think, you know, it's always right when it happens because now your podcast is huge, I'd say. I mean, it's one of the top ones I see people always referring to and talking about. Why do you think it's, you know, attracted so many people? Is it partially because, again, like the unique part of your podcast is kind of shorter episodes, which is, I think, great because you also look on the other side of the spectrum. And so many of these shows are like three hours long. Who has three hours to listen to an episode on whatever topic?

I mean, personally, for me, I don't have a lot of attention span. So I like a good bite size kind of thing. So yeah, what kind of do you think is that part of the reason people are attracted to your show? Obviously, the content is good, too. But I think it is I think I think it definitely the shorter format is what I think captures a lot of people. That's that I think it definitely, the shorter format is what I think captures a lot of people. I made it short because I wanted a short podcast. Like when I, when I, my attention span was like, I don't want, I don't want to listen to hours of, of one show. Like my friend sends me like Joe Rogan clips. I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to listen to his eight hour podcast.

I don't want to listen to that. Eight hours of absolute nothing is what that show is. Believe me, I've listened to a few of those things. I'm like, why am I doing this right now? Why am listening to this i don't get it don't get it not for me i'm certainly not the demographic of a show obviously but still yeah i can't listen to five hours of someone talking no it's like a lecture you know yeah and i i think that i think that's definitely part of it like it can just you can pick it up you're not gonna be tied down for a long time.

And I think too, one of the things that I've learned doing the show that I think is I've woven in and might be what's bringing people in is that I, I have, I have the perspective on myself that I don't know everything. I'm constantly learning new things. And this is all like, personal finance is very unique to the individual. And there's so many different ways of coming to your final destination that you want for your life and your money. And so I try to incorporate that in and make it a welcoming place, a place where I'm not going to use a bunch of jargon. It's going to be very open for anyone to come in.

But also there's not just one way to do these things. There's flexibility in how we all manage our money. I think it's almost so nice to hear that you feel like you don't know everything because compared to so many other people in the personal finance space. Because, I mean, anyone can create a social media account or, you know, anyone can create anything these days with the Internet. But you actually do know what you're talking about because you did actually go to school for it and have like, like you mentioned, you worked in a bank, you have certain licenses, but even you feel like there's so much to know and you don't know everything, which I think is such an important message. Cause I feel the exact same way. It's like, I continue to study. I'm going to become a CFP just so I can continue to learn this stuff. Cause I always feel like

as much as I know, I know so much more now than I did in the past, but I feel like there's still so much more to know. And it's just, and I feel like there's still so much more to know. And it's just, and that's how I think people get really stuck or just like that kind of analysis paralysis that there's so much to know. There's no way I can possibly learn this stuff because I never learned this stuff, you know, earlier in life or in school. So I'm not even going to bother. And so it's so important to like acknowledge, yeah, we all kind of feel the same way, even

us who have been doing this for a while, but B it's like, it is really just about taking that one step and then next step. And also, like you mentioned, which I think is so important as well is realizing that it isn't black and white. There isn't just a, this is how you do it. This is how you don't do it. Sometimes they're, they're like, well, there's, there's some obvious ones, of course. But I think that's such an important thing that has shifted in the past few years is this perspective of there's no one right way to to get your solution or to change your life or to, to fix whatever situation. Whereas when I started blogging 10 years ago, and I was reading, you know, some of those traditional

books, and there's lots of TV shows and radio shows of these money experts. They definitely had, I feel like a perspective of right and wrong this, you know, you're doing it wrong or like very much like, and I, and I don't know, looking back, were they doing that just to make it more understandable? So there wasn't so much ambiguity or was that just like the Simon Cowell thing of the day of being very blunt and you know do this not that or something like that but i feel like that's also just caused a lot of damage to us millennials because i have so much anxiety and like self-doubt yeah i mean i i get it like there's if if i wanted to sit down and talk through all the possible options that a person could take you would be there it would be an eight hour podcast. There's no way. And I get the sometimes benefit in simplicity and saying,

here, just do this. And some people just want that. Some people are like, just tell me what to do. I don't want any of this other stuff. Just tell me what to do and I'm going to do it. And that's fine. But I think sometimes, like you said, I think for us millennials, we're like, I think we're the generation of like, why? Like, Why are you telling me to do this? I don't want to do that. What if I want to do something else? And I think for us, I know I feel this way. It sounds like you do as well. I want flexibility. I want to tailor my life to what I care about. And if I don't want to do what you're doing, if I don't want to buy a house, what are my other options? Yeah. I shouldn't feel like I'm a failure in life because I'm not a homeowner. Cause I mean, and I think a lot of that comes down to, especially, you know, going back to our backgrounds, we had very similar backgrounds going to school,

then the recession and we couldn't find a job. And it's like, this isn't what we were told would happen. We were told you would get a job if you went to school and we did that and it didn't work out. I think a lot of it comes back to, we were kind of given in my mind, how I kind of explained it as like this life checklist of success. If you do this, you'll be great. And I think lots of that was built upon maybe some of the things that our parents weren't able to do. Like a big reason I went to college is because my parents didn't go and they're like, we really regret it. It definitely, you know, limited us in terms of our careers. We don't want you to experience the same thing. And so I feel like then we had these set of rules and they were very rigid and we did them and it did not work out in the way

that we expected. And so now we're in this kind of, you know, so many years later of like, we are trying to break that mold. And then there's the generation who are younger that I feel like have a different set of rules or, or, are already like so open and free that to me, it's sometimes jarring because I'm like, oh, wow, we have such different experiences. It's like, it's kind of crazy. But I think it's like so, so important. Like, I mean, I talk to people all the time from so many different experiences and backgrounds. And it's, yeah, it really comes down to personal finance is personal as cliche as that is, but it is 100% true. Anyways, I do want to kind of get your thoughts on this because I was actually doing a little Googling on you and

you kind of spoke about this kind of, you know, talking about kind of bite-sized personal finance information. I mean, like I kind of mentioned, anyone can kind of create a social media platform and talk about this stuff, which is good in that we're having more conversations. Bad in that anyone can kind of say whatever the heck they want. And it's like, what's true? What's not true? What's fact? What's harmful?

What's helpful? What are your kind of thoughts? I know, you know, I don't have TikTok anymore because it was way too much of a waste of my time. I'm like, why am I spending hours on this app? Like, it's not helpful for me in my life. What are your kind of perspectives on that? You know, especially coming from, you know, your position where you do create kind of shortened forms of content. Oh, man, I just the other day, I found myself on TikTok. Like, I took forever to join. First of all, yeah, this is for the younger people. It is though.

Like, I do feel old when I'm on there. Cause I'm like, I don't get the jokes and I don't know the music. When you're Googling jokes, that's when you know you're old. And it does, it takes up so much time. Like I find myself just scrolling for like an hour. I'm like, I've been doing this for way too long. And I'm mixed on, on this, on this topic of, of like TikTok and other short form social media stuff, because one, that's how, that's where people are. That's where younger people are going to be at. If you want to reach them, that's where it's going to be at. Like, right. Like they're not going to be on their computer in a browser looking at articles, like maybe we would have. And so it's great because you can meet people where they're at. You can provide the resources

and information. But then also, like you said, there is so much bad information on there because literally anyone can just say whatever they want to say. I actually was interviewed for an article for Vox about this. We're talking about some of the horrible information that's being spread. It's even gotten worse now with cryptocurrencies really booming out there. Yeah. And you just have to be so cautious. I think it's hard because you have to be knowledgeable enough to know what's bad information. Yeah.

And when you're on TikTok, this is the first time you've really learned about personal finance. So you don't have that background to know, oh, wait, that's actually bad information. Yes, exactly. And the people talk with so much enthusiasm on TikTok that you think it's true. It's like, well, they're talking really loud with a lot of energy. This must be true. They must know what they're talking about.

They're so passionate about what, you know, I should definitely believe them or, oh, I know one of the crazy things. There's all these little niches on TikTok, like communities that you can get kind of, I guess the algorithm can figure out, oh, you like this. So I'll show you more of this and you kind of get stuck. But yeah, it's, it was, I did find, and I find this on YouTube a lot as well. You know, the only way to get, I guess, popular on an app like that is to create content that is popular and viral and interesting. And so some of that won't be like the actually, you know, important information that people need to know, which is like, this is how to calculate this. It's like,

no, it's going to be how to make a million dollars overnight or something like that. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like, you can put out content. It's like, just take your time, invest in your work retirement plan, open up an IRA, do something very simple over the next 20, 30 years, and you'll be great. People are going to flock to that and click it. They're going to click the one that says, I put $25 in the Bitcoin and now I have $2.5 million. That's what people are going to click on. Yeah, I know. So I don't know what the solution for that is, but I don't know. I don't know. I just wanted to talk but uh I don't know I don't know I just wanted to talk about because I'm like yeah it is I I really only kind of discovered that that world of like TikTok

and even kind of Instagram because I feel like I am a very late adopter to like lots of social media really in the past year because of the pandemic you're just online a lot more and yeah it was it was very eye-opening to see what is out there. And it's just so different than when I started a decade ago just with a blog. And it really was like everyone who was in the personal finds like Canadian community anyway. Yeah, we were just talking about boring stuff like index funds and budgeting and stuff like that. And so to see this big shift, it's like, wow. I can see how that's also like, yeah, very kind of intimidating and kind of scary. It's like, how do you sift through all this stuff to find the actual good stuff?

I mean, I guess listening to our podcast is one way. Yeah, there you go. You go to trusted resources, people who you trust, who take a reasonable approach to these things. Because I think just like with anything, if it sounds too good to be true, it really is. Mm-hmm. I think just like with anything, if it sounds too good to be true, it really is. There's no, I want to say there's no get rich quick opportunity, but it's hard because things like cryptocurrency, you've seen people put in not as much money and end up with tons of money. But again, that was a very set of specific circumstances that occurred for that person.

And even in many of the circumstances now, the people who are making a lot of money are taking a lot of risk by putting in a lot of money. Yeah. And like you probably know, the people will always talk about their big gains, their successes. They certainly won't talk about the million dollars they lost with crypto or something like that. Exactly. I was actually just listening to your episode about options trading, which was very fascinating, very interesting. I feel like I learned a ton listening to that conversation.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, you mentioned in there that people don't talk about the losses. No one wants to talk about that. It's, I've heard someone refer to, I think it's like survivor bias, survivorship bias, where this person had one good thing happen to them.

They told a bunch of people about it. And so everyone thinks that's how it works now. Not that they're all the other thousands of people who may have risked it big and lost a lot of money. And we don't, you don't hear those stories often enough. Cause why would you want to shout that, you know, to the masses? Like that's, you know, kind of embarrassing because it's a failure, right? Yeah, exactly. I'm curious since you do share so many great pieces of information in your podcast, like what Yeah, exactly. guests on the show that have my perspective, but usually I don't quite know where they're coming from. But in general, I'm not a big fan of active investing. But what is your kind of philosophy when it comes to getting rich eventually and growing your wealth? What do you kind of do? I am very conservative when it comes to how I approach my investing. I take it very safe,

very slow. I feel like I don't want the stress of knowing I have to go log in and look at my account every day or multiple times a day. I don't want, I don't have the mental energy to be worried about that constantly. So for me, what's been like the most peaceful way for me to invest is I invest through my work plan. I have an individual retirement account I've opened up on my own and I'm investing in index funds. Something that's just very simple, very basic. But I mean, it has a proven track record of working for years and years and it limits the amount of stress that I have to feel along the way. Yeah. No, I mean, I do the exact same thing. And I do invest in some individual stocks. And part of it is sort of a personal experiment just so I can feel like get the experience and know what the feelings are.

Because I think a lot of people also don't think about they just think about the numbers, not the emotions. And I will tell you, I've been investing in individual stocks for maybe a year and a half now. And really, I'm a buy and holder. But even that is very emotional. Because even if you see, oh, my stocks are up this, you know, today, and then you check like a week later, and they're down. And then you're like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, I just lost money.

I mean, I'm not investing a ton of money. But it's just it's really hard when you're doing something that you're, you know, invested in, like a diversified portfolio of index, you know, funds, it is a lot easier because, and also I think what people don't, and this is what we talk about a lot on the podcast is, you know, a lot of people talk about, oh, here's this, you know, Tesla and all these things. And you're like, you know, that is in an index fund. So if you're invested in an index fund, you will be investing in Tesla, not directly,

but it is in this fund. But yeah. Okay. That's what I kind of figured when I was doing some research is just like, I talked to so many people and almost every person, no matter, you know, what level they're at as an investment expert, even if they're really a diehard active investor, they always usually come around to be like, but index fund investing is a great strategy. It's just not exciting. It's just pretty boring, but it's great at the same time. I've heard so many people say, I invest in my work plan, but I feel like I want to learn more

about investing. They don't feel like they're an investor because that's too easy. If I'm a real investor, it has to be harder. I need to know some secrets and more information to really be doing it right. I know. And you're like, I mean, you could do that, but you don't have to. I know so many people I've had on the show who've achieved fire and I don't think any of them, it's because they just like got really good at stock picking. Almost all of them. It's like, it's just index funds. Yeah. It's just like, oh, okay. It doesn't have that same shine, that same, you know, glamour of those who share their, you know, limited stories of becoming very wealthy. Exactly. So I know you, you know, budget for your work and talk a lot about budgeting on your show. What is also your kind of money management, you know, strategy yourself? How do you keep your money nice and organized? What do you personally do? You know, it's changed over the years. I've noticed like when I first was horrible with money and was in a bunch of debt, it was just- Was it student debt or?

It was credit card debt, actually. Oh, we haven't gone into that. I didn't know you were in debt. Yeah. So right when I got married, this would have been, what was this? I can't, it feels like everything is so long ago. Yeah, I know. This was, I think, 2012. I probably should know this. Yeah, 2012. We didn't have any money. Like we, I was just kind of getting in my first job after leaving the bank and I wasn't making a ton of money. My wife wasn't making a ton of money, but you know, we were like, well, we got to have a wedding. We got to have all these people. So we ended so we ended up spending somewhere around i don't it wasn't a ton comparatively to what people do but it was i think like around fifteen thousand dollars that we spent but it was all on credit cards so we didn't have any money and then we went you know we moved in bought furniture

got you know with medical bills all this stuff kind of piled up on us all at once like in the first couple of years and so we ended up with like $27,000 in credit card debt and making like 40, maybe we're probably taking home like $45,000 total at the time. So it was not, we weren't making a lot and we had a lot of debt. So around that time is when I started getting focused and building like our first budget. And then it was all about how do I get rid of this debt? It was like, what can I cut? What can I get rid of? Just have enough money to pay this down quickly. And when we eventually paid it off, it took about two and a half years to pay off all of the debt. It then began this journey of, well, how do you do this? Like when you don't have debt, what do you focus on? How much do I put in retirement? How much do

I save for these other things? How much do we enjoy? And I'm finding myself, it evolves over time. It wasn't very strict. I'm following every week. I'm looking at what is going on to where now I'm at a point where I automate pretty much everything. It's like, this money goes to retirement. This goes to other savings. This is going to be sectioned off for bills. And then whatever's left in the account, we can just do whatever we want to do with it. And I'm starting to take a little more of a looser hands-off approach to eliminate some of that stress that I was having around budgeting. Yeah. No, I'm the exact same way. And that's the other thing going back to like what we kind of mentioned that there's no right or wrong way to do it. That's something that I actually struggled

with a lot at the beginning, learning budgeting a decade ago, I'm like, Oh, this is the, you know, from all these resources, this is the way you're supposed to do it. And I always kind of like, yeah, it caused me a lot of stress. And I mean, it did work, but like just having this sort of system where it's like every line item is important. And you can only spend this amount on groceries and just having these really strict categories and stuff like that. It's only until in the past, you know, I guess four or five years that, yeah, I've kind of changed how I personally budget just to fit my needs. And yeah, it just goes to show there's no, you can kind of do whatever the heck you want as long as it's working. If it's not working, then change it. But yeah, I think automation is a really obviously important

thing. Like that is just like number one, you know, also everyone needs to read the automatic millionaire. It was like one of the first books I read. I'm like, well, this is, this makes sense. You can just set it up and automate it. That's, that makes a lot of sense. But then, yeah, I like, I also kind of do the situation where it's like, okay, we, we are saving, you know, money first and investing it automatically, paying our bills automatically, then whatever's left over, we can kind of spend and keeping it kind of simple, but then reviewing it and make sure it's work where it works and stuff like that. So yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned about the debt stuff, because I remember when I first started getting into blogging, there's, there's a huge community of debt bloggers and they're all paying

off debt, very exciting and inspiring. Then they'd all get to the point where they paid off all of their debt. And then they're like, what do I do now? And I think it's because you get so focused on one goal. You can't. And I, and I talked to so many people, they're like, yeah, no, I can't think of anything until my debt is paid off. I can't think of something outside of that, which I, which I get. Cause you're, you know, it's just like any goal. You're like, I just, I just need to get this done and then I can move on to that. But then you're at this juncture, you're like, now what do I do? And some people get back into debt. Cause that's all they're familiar with, or they're just having a big time, you know, tough time figuring out what is that next step. So, so for you, how did you figure out, okay, we did this

and now we have to do this next chapter. And it's kind of like starting from scratch a little bit. Yeah. You know, it's, you, you have this joy of paying off the debt. Like once you get to that point, you're just so excited, but then it kind of, you, you kind of hit with, well, what, what, what do I do? Like what, that was like, my purpose was to get rid of this debt. And I even remember when I first started the podcast, I talked about my debt a lot and I kind of was almost like, that was like my thing of talking about how much debt we had and paying it off. But then I was kind of like, I don't want to talk about this all the time because I know there's, I need to be prepared for whatever else is going to come after this. So it I was kind of like, I don't want to talk about this all the time, because I know there's, I need to be prepared for whatever else is going to come after this.

So it really was kind of just looking into what other people do, like, listen, like really reading and listening to other really smart people who talk about these topics and educating myself and learning what should I be focused on next. And I've even, I constantly am changing what my goals are, what I think I want for the future as I hear new ideas. And I think that's one of the things that I've been trying to do more is be open to having the way I think about things changed. Yes. And not being saying like, this is it. But it's like, no, okay, this is what I really believe was true.

Like, I really wanted this. But, you know, it's a year later and I heard a really good point someone else made. You know, let me look into this a little bit more and just being open to change and say, look, this is nothing set in stone. If I felt this way before, I don't have to feel like that for the rest of my life. Yes. Yeah. Really being open. I'm curious, what are some of your goals or what are some things that you wanted to achieve or work towards? And then you kind of changed your mind. I'm assuming the pandemic probably changed a lot of things too, because it's just given a lot of people time to reflect on like, what am I doing with my life and my money and everything? Exactly. I think originally when I

first paid off everything and I was like, all right, this is what I'm shooting for. I was in the camp of like, I didn't want to retire when I was like 65. I didn't want to wait that long, but I was like, you know, I'm okay with, with, um, retiring at maybe like 55, maybe something like that. And now as I'm looking at it, it's more so, I don't think I want to do like a traditional retirement. Like I don't want to retire at like 40 and then do, and like, just travel around. I don't think that's necessarily what I want, but I'm really fascinated with the idea of having flexibility and working in a kind of like part-time basis. And maybe not like,

I don't mean like getting like a part-time job, but more so like working on my own schedule and getting to a point where I don't need as much to live and then I don't need as much to save. And so now I can make these flexible life decisions. Like if I want to work in a completely different industry, if I want to try something out, that's like way different from what I'm doing now, I have the flexibility and options to do that without the stress of feeling like, Oh, I have to stay here because I have these

obligations I have to cover. So I'm really liking the idea of flexibility of the, to make different decisions because I've prepared enough to, to, to just uproot and change things drastically. Yeah. Sounds a little bit of like minimalism in there, like having less. So you need less and you need to save less, but I, I totally agree. I'm, I'm in the same boat where, um, I mean, me and my husband have gone back and forth over the past year and we're still, still going back and forth over the past year and we're still, still going back and forth by like, Oh, we would love to move. Like we own a townhouse in the city. It's fine. We have lovely neighbors upstairs that make a lot of noise and it's not their fault. We

love them, but you know, there's only so many times you can be like, can't please be quiet when you walk, like it's their house, you know, like what can you do? And also in the pandemic, it's like, we just are so sick of the city. I i want to i just want to be in a big open field you know what i mean i just need some space but then it's like okay well if we want to continue living in the city of toronto and have like a house to ourself even if it's just a um you know half house where we share a wall with our neighbor that's literally one two one point two one point three million dollars and it's like okay well that's like adding good 1.2, $1.3 million. And it's like, okay, well, that's like adding good for $500,000 onto our current mortgage. Is that kind of the life that we want?

We would have more space and privacy and independence, but that would limit us with so many different things, especially as we're both self-employed and we like having that flexibility. So yeah, it's, it's one of those things where it's like we're just constantly rethinking what do we want and then making sure we do not make a decision that's like a big financial decision off of our emotions. Because that's just been like the whole 12 months is like, let's not do anything rash with our money. Because when this is all over, we may be like, why are we living in the country?

Yeah, exactly. Why are we here? like, why are we living in the country? Why are we here? We're like two hours away from the city. Why did we do this? So yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting, but I think that's kind of a point that everyone gets to. We're like, you know, changing your mind is okay. Yeah. It has the thing. I think we put so much pressure on, you need to figure this out and you need to just keep going. You figure this out. This is where you're going now. Just keep going there. Don't stop. Yeah. Don't stop. And don't rethink your plans. But I'm gaining an appreciation for having the flexibility of saying,

I don't want to do that. I don't want to do this anymore. And I think that's why I've kind of gravitated towards, I guess it was like a form of minimalism. Cause I was like, I'm like a huge fan of tiny homes and it's kind of all wrapped in the whole minimalism world. And I'm finding that what I make is what I make. That's my salary, to, to, if I want to move out of the city, if I want to go over here and try this area for a little bit, you have that option because you're, you're not tied so much to your financial needs. So, I mean, I definitely get it because there's this, there's so many options, it feels like. So many options, which I think is the exciting part of personal finance and what kind of drew me into it is it's once you learn this stuff you can apply it in so many different ways to achieve so many different things that are

that could ultimately hopefully bring you more happiness joy fulfillment and and that's the kind of cool thing about it it's it can work you can use it as a tool however you like and so it's the the possibilities are endless and that's a, that's an exciting, good thing. Yeah, it really is. That's a great way to put it. It is a tool. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show. I'm sure I'll, I'll want to have you back on the show. Cause I had such a great time with you. Where can people find more information about you? You have two podcasts and I don't think I really mentioned the second one, but you have popcorn finance. You also have another show called this is awkward. What's that one about, actually? I'm assuming it's just about the awkwardness of talking about money or... It is. I have a co-host on that one, Allison of Inspired Budget. We host

that show together. Yes, she's been on the show as well. I love her. She's great. She's so great. She's the energy. I was like, I need someone with energy if I'm going to do another podcast when I'm tired. But yeah, for that one, we actually talk about awkward money situations that we all deal with and we have people call in. So people call in or they'll write in and they'll share an awkward money situation that they dealt with, like a family that wants to tell you how to spend your money or friends who borrow money and never paid it back. Like those, those types of things that we all deal with and you don't want to deal with it, but you have to. And we give our, our feedback on how we would handle this situation if we were in the same, same boat as our callers and our writers. So yeah, that's what we do on This is Awkward.

That's amazing. So people can find you on all podcast platforms to listen to Popcorn Finance and This is Awkward. Where can they follow you? I mentioned your Instagram, but you also have a website. Yeah. So if you want to reach out to me, probably the fastest way is Instagram. So Popcorn Finance Podcast. You can just find me there. And if you go to popcorn finance.com, there's also links to this is awkward there as well. So you can see both podcasts all in one spot. Amazing. Well, it's been a pleasure having you on. I, uh, I can't wait for more people to, to discover your show from my show and just binge all of your episodes and, and also be able to kind of continue to follow your personal

finance journey. Cause it seems like you're, you've still, you're still on that journey. I mean, I guess I still am too, but I always love like hearing about people where they started from and then following them along to see where they end up. Well, thank you for having me. It was been great talking with you. And also these conversations helped me think through these ideas and I'll probably have a new concept of what I'm looking for after talking to you right now. So I appreciate it. I think me too. Maybe a tiny house is in my future. I don't know. I mean, I think about it. I think about it all the time. Me too. I need a separate one for my husband. I tell him that all the time. Like we couldn't share one. We need separate ones. I need my own space. Yeah. You need a couple. We need a couple. You can't be

in that tight space together all the time. No, we need a few tiny houses. But then at that point, is that just a real house? Well, thanks again for being on the show. Thanks so much for having me. And that was episode 293 of the More Money Podcast with the wonderful Chris Browning, creator and host of the award-winning short form podcast, Popcorn Finance, and the Colin Money Advice show, This Is Awkward. You can find more information about him at popcornfinance.com. And of course, you can follow Popcorn Finance. And This Is Awkward on any place that you can find

podcasts. If you're listening to this podcast, then you could very easily find out where his podcasts are probably on the same platform that you're listening to right now. So make sure to check him out on Twitter, you can find them at popcorn finance. And on Instagram, it is at popcorn finance podcast. Now I've got so many updates, because obviously, it's been a whole summer since I've talked to you. So a lot has happened in the past couple months. So I want to give you a little bit of an update. But before I do, I do just want to remind you about my wealth building blueprint for Canadians course you can apply at Jessica Morehouse.com slash WBB. But of course, I'm, you know, there's information right on the homepage of my website, Jessica Morehouse.com or just go to the show notes for this episode, Jessica Morehouse.com slash 293. But if you're a longtime listener, or even a new listener, and you came to

this podcast, because you want to learn about, you know, wealth building, how can you afford to retire one day or retire early? Or how can you afford to, you know, grow your money so you can eventually have enough money to buy a house in, you know, Toronto or Vancouver? Because putting cash in the bank and just in a savings account, it's not going to it's not going to work for you right now because of the high inflation and low interest rates. Anyways, so if you're interested in learning more about what are the building blocks of investing and then how to make an investment plan and then how to actually start investing, well, that is why I built the course. It is to help any Canadian

who wants to learn the fundamentals of investing and then how to actually go about it in a strategic and methodical way. And so if you want to learn more about the course and also read some testimonials from all the current students who, I've got to say it, they absolutely love the course, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash WBB. Okay, so now for some exciting information, a little bit of a life update since my last episode 292. Okay, so what have I been up to this summer? Well, you know, like I mentioned, I have, you know, was able to take some time off during the summer, which is great. I visited my family for a good three weeks, and caught up with them because I haven't seen them and, you know, over a year

because of COVID. And that was so lovely. I also because I think I mentioned this at the end of the Yeah, I'm sure I mentioned this in episode 292. And when I was wrapping up this podcast that this summer, I'd be busy studying for an exam, which I really, really hoped I was going to be able to tell you that on this episode to open up this season that I passed. And well, if you follow me on Instagram, you will know that did not happen. I failed. I big time failed. No, it wasn't a big time. That's maybe that's even more irritating. I failed by just a tiny little bit. I know why I failed is because I rushed it. I got impatient while taking the exam. Do you ever take an exam? You're like, Oh my god,

is this over yet? Whatever is good enough. Let's hit submit. And then well, I hit submit and it said fail. So I was literally four questions away from passing. So this is what I'm going to be doing this fall is studying for that exam again and taking it during the busiest season of my, my job and my life. I always find the fall is just crazy. So I've got a lot of, you know, kind of speaking gigs coming up, which I'm excited about some in person, some most virtual still, which I'm really excited about. But and also, I will hopefully be launching this new course is more about financial planning this fall. So I will share more details about that. You can sign up to my email list to find out, um,

when it will be available. Um, so just go to Jessica morehouse.com slash subscribe to get onto my email list. Um, Oh, that reminds me though, a few updates, um, as well that I've, I've been slowly updating so many things. Uh, hopefully I will have a new website next year, like early next year, but I have like new brand colors, new fonts, which I'm trying to integrate into my current assets and stuff like that. Not like you give a crap, but it's something exciting for me. But one thing that I did update was my free resource library before it was hosted on my website. Now I'm hosting it on the same platform. I host my courses. So it is so much nicer and easier more accessible so if you want to sign up

to for my free resource library there's a bunch of past webinars there's um downloads some budget spreadsheets all for free just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash resources or just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop actually there's um links for that there you can also find my budget spreadsheets on there um a link to my online course. Also, I do have some merch still. So make sure to check that out. JessicaMorehouse.com slash shop. But I will say the biggest change that is happening literally as we speak. And this is why I have never been more stressed out in my life. This is why I remember why I hate, hate, like moving, moving sucks. I'm moving. So I think I also talked about this in a previous episode. But basically, is me and my husband came to the conclusion that we need to move. And a big reason, there's a lot of reasons. Part of it is like, hey, this is a good

time to sell. We've, you sell. Our place is appreciated significantly. The neighborhood is getting, you know, it was up and coming when we've respawned it. Now it is getting busier. There's a lot of applications for developments of new condo buildings right in our neighborhood, which means it's going to get even busier and the traffic and the noise. I want out. I don't want to be here anymore. I'm sick of this neighborhood. We've outgrown it. We need to change. But also, you know, the neighbors we have above us, lovely people, lovely people. So it is not personal. However, they're noisy as hell. And I cannot sleep anymore. I can't because they wake me up every day at 630am and 730am every single day like clockwork, even on the weekends, and I can't I can't do it anymore. I can't. So, so we're moving. So we're listing our place. I will totally update you when, when things start moving. But basically, as of me recording this episode, which is like September,

or me recording this outro, sorry, September 7th, for reference point. We are going to be staging our place and listing it next week. So I think it'll already have been listed and stuff by the time this podcast is out. And hopefully, fingers crossed, sold. Because, you know, it's a pretty crazy market here in Toronto. And like our realtor says, you know, it's not unlikely that we'll be able to sell it within a week. And then once we sell it, then we're going to be looking for a new place to live. Still going to hopefully stay in the city, but I don't know what's going on. Like it is not fun to be a buyer in this market. I'm so excited to sell, not excited to buy. So we're just going to

see what happens. If it means that we're going to be renting for a little bit, we'll rent. If we buy a place, you know, right away, because we find a great place, then we'll buy it. I have no idea. I will update you on what's going on. But that's what's been going on with me a lot, a lot of things. Oh my god, I'm so stressed out. I've never been so stressed out in my life. Like why does everything have to do like do you like I'm sure you can relate because this is like the story of my life. Why does everything always happen all at once? Like all of the things in one short amount of time when there's other points in your life where there's nothing going on. And then there's times where everything's going on. Why?

Why can't we have some balance here? But anyways, that's what's, that's what's going on with me. So I'm just like, you know, trying to manage everything and not go crazy. So yeah. So that's like the big news with me. We'll be excited to share, you know, the journey along with you while it happens. I'm very worried about being a bit homeless, like being in between of like selling this place and not having another place to live. I'm really worried about that. I'm not I'm not excited about it. But what can you do? What can you do? Anyway, so that's really the big news I've excited about it. But what can you do? What can you do? Anyway, so that's really the big news I've got for you. So thank you so much for listening to this episode. Oh, other exciting news. I've got a bonus episode for you tomorrow. It's super special. I don't know if I even want to share who it's with. But it is an interview with someone

very special to me. No, I'm just gonna make it mysterious. So you're just gonna have to listen to check it out tomorrow. So subscribe to this podcast. Check out the new episode that will drop tomorrow and you'll find out who is the special guest and actually, well, technically, I'm the guest. So anyways, it's but there's someone else involved in the episode. Anyways, that's all I'm gonna say. That's all I'm gonna say. Okay, so thanks again for listening and a big shout out to my podcast editor Matt right out. I will see you back here tomorrow for that special episode. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network.

Find out more at womeninmedia.network.