More Money Podcast - 294 Freelancing, Hustle Culture & Leaving the 9-5 - Jessica & Sarah Moorhouse

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

For today’s episode, I’m being interviewed by my younger sister and virtual assistant, Sarah Moorhouse! We dive into never-before-heard stories about how I went from being a corporate employee to a business owner, why freelancing is not for everyone, hustle culture, and my tips for newbie freelancers. When I was back home in Vancouver over the summer, I brought all my podcast equipment with me without knowing what this episode would be about. Sarah had the great idea to turn it around and interview me on all things freelance since she has joined the self-employment club this past year. We also talk about what success means to me, and of course, some money talk. We had a lot of fun recording this episode and I enjoyed sharing more about my journey than I ever have before. I really hope you enjoy this episode too! For full episode show notes visit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Morehouse. You did hear that right. It's not Jessica Morehouse. I'm here though. Yeah. It is her sister. I'm taking over for the podcast today. What she's going to be doing. So we came up with this idea because I wanted to like I brought my podcast equipment when I was coming home to Vancouver to visit my family. And you know, I didn't really have an idea of what the episode would be about. So I thought we just figured out when I was there. But she came up with a great idea that she would kind of turn the tables and interview me because I have never been interviewed on my own show and I've been doing this show for over six years now so I'm like that's a great idea I mean she knows me pretty

darn well but also as someone now who who works for me I guess and part of her job is actually listening to each and every one of these episodes before they go live uh she has a really good sense of what the show is about and uh so I think it'll be an interesting uh conversation that we have she has a bunch of notes and questions written down i do have notes okay so where did you want to start let's start from the beginning okay where where do you want to start like but actually though like how far back do you want to go um let's start well i i want to center this um episode around going freelance going you know be it if you have a side hustle you're one and this is because you have gone freelance this year and so it's a journey yes yeah so i want to um go back to your story and see how that all came to be i mean i know i know, I know it very well.

Yeah. And I feel like I honestly haven't shared that many details on the show because I feel like the last time I really talked about it, probably in a solo episode, it was still a bit fresh. And I was afraid that someone from my old job would, you know, know what I felt and not give me a reference. But I've been doing my running my own business for almost five years now. And so I don't really care. I'm not going to use any of those people as my references. So I'm good. I can, you know, spill the tea, so to speak, if you if you will, as the kids say, the tea is piping hot, the tea is piping hot and ready to be spilled. Anyways, so so we're where okay so where should i start um let me let me go back to i think because i get this question a lot is why did you decide to quit

your you know corporate job that seemed kind of fine in the face of it um and i mean you know it's a pretty big risk to take um why did you do that? And the real reason is, it's not like I had this big plan. And especially too, if you're a longtime listener, you'll remember some of my early episodes, especially I think it was like episode one, possibly with my husband, who's been self employed for as long as I've known him. I'm like, I can never do that. I will never become self-employed. Not for me. I liked the comfort and security of working for a company. And I still do miss a lot of aspects of that. Don't get me wrong. And that's why I have so many, I find issues when I go online, go on Instagram. There's all these people talking about how amazing it is to be self-employed. And they really don't. They're only telling half the story, guys. So I think being an employee is great. However, my particular situation, I, you know, at that point, I'd been working for different companies, full time, different, you know, positions for over seven years. I was with my current company for over two years when I, it all kind of happened, and this sounds super cheesy, but

it all kind of happened when I turned 30 and had a bit of a, you know, quarter life crisis, I suppose, turned 30, had a good look at my life and was like, I'm not happy. I don't like my life. This is not where I thought I'd be at this point in my life. I'm, I'm just like, honestly, miserable, to be honest. And part of that was because of my job. I mean, I spent all my time at my job, really. I didn't feel valued. I wasn't getting paid enough. I was promised a promotion that never came to fruition. I was doing way more work than what I was hired for all these things. And so I basically came to, you know, the decision to I'm going to leave no matter what. I interviewed

at a lot of different companies, actually. Did you ever say what you used to do? I don't know if I actually did. I don't know. But yeah, so I my last job was with a big Bay Street law firm in Toronto. I worked in digital marketing, and did a lot of the things actually that I do now for my business. So social media, web, you know, graphic design, website stuff, blogging, all this kind of stuff. So it was very relevant. And it was great because no one really knew what I did, I think. Because, I mean, it's a law firm. They don't know. Lawyers, God bless them, don't know anything about social media. So I did a lot of that. So when I was kind of made that decision to, you know, exit, definitely started applying in a bunch of different places.

I'll start doing research on like, OK, if I, you know, maybe don't find a company that I want to kind of jump ship to. If I do this on my own, you know, start because I did have the side hustle at the time. What would that look like? And, you know, when you're kind of doing research like that, it just looks like I'm researching for my job, which is always convenient. But basically, I, you know, did a lot of interviews, there was just nothing that got me super excited. And it just came to a point where I'm like, I need to quit this job. And I'm not one of those people that believes that you should necessarily quit your job before you have something lined up. But for me, and I've talked to so many people in my Instagram DMs and over email over the years about this, it really came to a point where I was like, it is critical for my own mental health that I quit because it really was. And now that I have this perspective, such a toxic work environment, it was affecting how I thought about myself.

I really felt like kind of worthless and was was drinking too much was spending money that i shouldn't have just so i could feel something all of these things i was just you know not in a very good place it was a bit of a dark place and so i uh gave two months notice in uh november of 2016 and also uh talk about risks me and my husband had just bought our first home so that was a bit scary but he was very supportive um but you know i i kind of i had a very you know sizable emergency fund because i think i was like hoarding money getting ready for this uh big change but also like i again i i wasn't like oh i'm gonna quit and show them i gave them two months notice so they can change their mind so they can give me that promotion raise that they promised. I literally was hoping that would be the case and everything

would be fine. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's why I gave two months. I didn't know that. Yeah. I was really hoping they changed their mind. You know, when you hear like stories or you watch, you know, a movie or TV show and they're like, oh, I'm going to, you know, basically use the leverage of like, fine, well, I'll quit it unless, you know, you know, unless you give me that promotion. Yeah, yeah, well, I kind of did that. And it didn't work out. And I actually had to quit. So I would say never kind of put them in that position kind of like that threat of like, well, I'll quit then, unless you are actually willing to quit because you may have to quit and I did. it's it's interesting because I think you've said that um a lot of people in your life were shocked that you wanted to go freelance and you know go and work on your own business I was not really I always thought you

were gonna work for yourself oh I never had that plan in at all ever i don't know why i always had that sense so i probably was maybe one of the few who was like oh okay yeah sure do it interesting yeah it's not that people weren't supportive though mom certainly was um concerned to say the least i mean i i mean she just didn't understand because she'd been an employee, same with my dad, you know, our dad for forever. And so why would you quit a stable, totally fine, you know, sort of well-paying corporate job where you could, if you just stick it out, work your way up, why would you quit that for uncertainty? And I understand that it does look a bit crazy, especially since like, to give everyone a

reference point, no one in our families on both sides, like to give everyone a reference point no one and our families on both sides uncles cousin anyway and no one is self-employed no one runs their own business everyone is an employee um and even going back to like our grandparents and all the time no one that i know of in our family um is self-employed and so it's a bit of a crazy idea our dad's father ran his own business. He did have a bakery. That's true. He did have his own business. He did run his own business. Yeah, that's true.

So that's like one person. One person out of how many? How many? And so for me to make that decision, it was a bit, yeah, everyone just didn't quite understand. Yeah. And even friends, because, yeah, most, yeah, actually all of my friends are also work, you know, as employees. Yeah.

They were, you know, employees they were you know like oh okay but I you know and supportive in general but like didn't quite understand why someone would do that and to be fair I didn't understand why people were self-employed before I became self-employed so I totally get it at all I totally get it I think it's a lot of well definitely with pandemic times it's maybe less shocking well yeah I, because everyone's been kind of forced to work from home or then start a side hustle. So freelancing is definitely a lot more, I think, popular or more mainstream now than it was five years ago. I definitely think it is. But I do think that there's still the misconception that if you're working for yourself, you're working at home, you're self-employed, that it means you have like more time to do non-work things.

Yeah. And that your schedule is complete. Like, you know, I always find that there's this idea that's sold. You're just, oh, I'm going to go freelance. I'm just going to work on a beach. Yeah. And make my money doing whatever number one you cannot work on a beach with a laptop because of the sun glare I know so let's just kill that dream yeah you cannot work with a laptop on a beach I've tried it's

impossible yeah I mean I guess that goes into my next question is what's the biggest misconception people have about going you know and it could be anything it could be starting yeah just starting your own side hustle or but yeah mainly working for yourself like because there's this thing I saw on Instagram the other day where someone's saying I quit my nine to five so that I could work 24 seven yeah that's 100 true well that's the thing I see yeah a lot on social media these mainly and i've been having this uh issue i feel like with you know certain influencers on social media who are like kind of business coaches or whatever yeah promoting this idea that um you're basically a

chump for working in nine to five you're you're slaving away giving away all your hours to some evil corporation when you could be working for yourself and living your best life and that is a dream that is not the reality as someone who's been running her own business for full-time for over almost five years it'll be five years in january um and it's been going you know well it's still a slow and steady kind of journey and that first year especially because even though i did kind of have a foundation, I had my side hustle, I did earn about, I don't know, $20,000 to $30,000 when I was working full-time. That was the side hustle. So I'm like, okay, well, if I put full-time hours towards this, I should be able to at least earn or out-earn the salary that I'm leaving behind. So that gave me

some comfort. But I still didn't really have much of a business plan, didn't quite know all the different things that can come your way. I really didn't know what I was doing. I don't have a business background. And so I did a ton of research, of course, and tried a lot of things and failed a lot of things. If anyone has been a longtime listener, you may remember my failed attempt at trying to merge fitness and finance and rich and fit this wonderful cute

idea that i had with my friend jackie that uh did not work out but we're all we're both doing well and she's good in the fitness world i'm good in the finance world just didn't work together no unfortunately um you know so there's there's uh yeah i worked all the time i worked every single weekend i worked 10 to 12 hour days for an entire year. And I definitely was getting very close to burnout. And so I understand when I see that meme that, you know, work 24 hours a day. Absolutely. It's not like that anymore. But that's because I have been doing this for a while. I figured out different, you know, revenue streams. I've also, especially this year, I've started to actually hire out, uh, cause I'm now making enough money in my business. I can hire contractors for things

like my wonderful podcast editor, my wonderful sister who helps me with a ton of different things in my business. Uh, my YouTube videos, most of those are now edited by someone I hire just so I have more time to do other things. So, but you know, for four years before that, I did every single thing myself. And also the thing that you don't hear about, sometimes you, you know, do research and like, Oh, just, you know, outsource, outsource, outsource, you know, how hard it is to find good people. Like I've worked with lots of different, you know, VAs or contractors and they were awful and I had to fire them. So it's also, it's not as easy as just like, just hire someone to help you. It's like, yeah, but you have to hire someone who's good.

And reliable. And reliable and also affordable. Like you also don't want to, you know, sometimes you get what you pay for, but I've also paid a lot of money for people that don't really deliver. So it's, you just, it's not as easy. There's so many things that go into running your own business.

That's not to deter anyone. I mean, I love like, I wouldn't give up what I'm doing now for the world. I absolutely love what I'm doing. But I think the kind of messaging that's out there is that it's easy, you have more free time. And also that there's a negative about being an employee, which I don't agree with. I don't either. I think't think that's ridiculous because I actually in general liked being an employee I liked having that stability and that certainty and generally I liked the jobs that I did sometimes I would get bored usually it was just like the culture the environment yeah you know you can't really control those things no yeah and I think um I don't yeah I don't see anything wrong with having a regular

job yeah like I think it's more so yes this weird narrative where you're less cool or I don't know it's so odd I don't get it yeah um for me um going freelance was very um different yeah yeah so um it's different and uh ever since i graduated university for ogs if you do remember that episode that we did i'll even have to find i don't remember what episode that is but i have no idea i didn't take it off the podcast it's not it's still there i don't know what number it is it's got to be like five years old I'll try to find it and I'll get the show notes it would be five years old yeah so just jumping in here because I honestly couldn't remember this episode it was so long ago yeah apparently Sarah was on the podcast um in 2016 June 25th 2016 she was on episode 53 so I think this was after I did a full year of the podcast or maybe it's like the last

episode of the first season or what what have you I don't know but anyways if you want to check it out it is episode 53 you can check it out on my website jessicamorehouse.com slash 53 or try to find it in the archives of wherever you're listening to this show but uh yeah and we're talking about you know because i just graduated university and um i always had the sense that uh i i am not i don't suit the corporate lifestyle and i knew that in some capacity i'd want to work for myself and that's ever evolving you know i've only been um self-employed since the start of this year and it's still it's like ever evolving and I have to remind myself like this is you know

just take every week as it is and all that and um things will evolve and things will grow and that's what's happened in your own business things how your business looked i'm sure from five years ago to now very different very different very very different and that's that's another thing it's like it's it's that's natural for it to evolve um i feel like we get so hung up one thing that i've tried to get rid of is this idea of well i'm i'm a perfectionist it is something that i need to work on every single day but getting rid of this idea that things need to be perfect before they can be released, launched, or considered done. Because, you know, certain things took me years to get off the ground just because it's

like, it wasn't perfect. It wasn't perfect. But done is actually better than perfect. Yeah. I remind myself of that as well. Yeah. That's, I mean, I tell you that as well. It's like, it's really not about being perfect just want like people just want it done on time whatever they

want done done yeah and just like good enough like not good enough but like what done well that's it i don't need something that's perfect no because nothing is is really perfect no um and your perfect might be different than absolutely so it's it's not an attainable thing no perfection is not attainable so don't even bother because it will just the the biggest i think struggle in my business and you know because i know so many other entrepreneurs and small business owners um you know some of which do very similar things to me um you know i have lots of uh friends who do very similar things um yeah that's what we talk a lot about is is this um well a couple things it's that struggle with perfectionism um also that analysis paralysis there's so many things you can do and then it's hard to actually pick one thing

to actually do um imposter syndrome every single person i have ever met even super super i was gonna say successful people deal with imposter syndrome do you still have that does that ever go away no it doesn't you just have to manage it it's really it's just something that you manage like honestly like yeah and i don't know if i've really shared this on the podcast maybe a little bit but uh you know for the past year when working with a therapist and he has been amazing he also like specifically works it works with everybody but he does i work with him specifically because he has experience with people who run their own businesses and some of the issues that they deal with and yeah imposter syndrome was a big issue because it's like how when will this go away how many courses do you

want to need to take or credentials do i need to get in order for me to feel good enough um what i've realized is like that's it's never really going to go away so it is something you just need to manage have some tools in your toolbox to figure out how to deal with it and then also realize like the thing that i'm currently doing is very public facing and so i'm always going to encounter as someone who looks young even though i'm not as young as i look um and i'm a woman i will always encounter people who will question everything that i do. I mean, every single day, I will get a comment on, you know, social media or YouTube or even a nasty email telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, even though I know way more than those people. Because I do.

I just do because I've actually done the work. I've been doing this for almost a decade. Yes. I'm on my way to become a financial planner like i know more than you but so that's something that i have to uh deal with every single day is people telling me you're an idiot uh or anything i mean i get comments i don't look at my podcast um reviews anymore because most of them are really really mean that have usually nothing to do with me no but it's they just want to project something and usually it is like sexist or whatever it's on them it's on them what can you do what can you do going back to you know that whole like the culture of you know self-employed and everything it does tie in with hustle culture

yeah so what are the rise and grind culture yeah I hate that yeah well you know what i know a lot of people um kind of in my circle and community that are you know entrepreneurs are also rejecting this idea because i think a lot of us subscribe to it did it yeah and burned out and or had you know it just it made a lot of other issues flare up that we you know it's not a healthy way to live the whole kind of gary v and i actually like garye but i don't like this idea that you need to grind grind grind hustle hustle hustle every single day because again it's like wait a minute i thought the whole point was to enjoy life i thought this was supposed to be better than the nine to five like i didn't yeah i've never you know i didn't grind this hard at my nine to five yeah that's my great with it is like what what are

you hustling for well i think that's the that's the other thing that I've had to really define in my own businesses. A lot of people just hustle and do all the things in order to, you know, make a lot of money, get a lot of followers. Yeah. Because those are the kind of two big things that people um use as a benchmark for success yes and for me it's like i have never had a thing that's just like taken off you know i've never had a thing where it's like overnight i have all these followers or overnight i've made all this money um i've been doing this for almost a decade and it literally has been like the i feel like the the tortoise and the hare kind of thing like i'm the tortoise and as much as i would like to run

as a tortoise i just cannot with my little legs and so i'm just like walking very slow eventually going to get to whatever the finish line and hustle culture would make you believe that you're failing because yes you haven't had anything take off when in actuality that's not true no but it does i mean i again that's something i have to encounter every single day going on instagram and stuff is uh there's people that are like wow they've been doing this six months so they have more instagram followers than me but it's like at the end of the day okay sure you might have how many odd yeah instagram followers but do those convert into what your business needs them to convert into so customers sales yeah it's like much you know those are just kind of in my opinion vanity metrics but also like for me

i had to really recognize like i always and this is something that I practice every single day is reminding myself, okay, what is like the mission or the purpose of my business? And it's like, well, I quit my corporate job in order to do something that I'm passionate about, A, but also B, I want to help people. I've, I'm sure talked about this on the podcast so many times, but my, I feel like kind of purpose in life or my kind of raison d'etre, if you will, is to help people. I really love being able to affect people in a positive way. Because so many other people, especially like, like going specific to personal finance, have affected me and changed my life. Like there's certain books that changed my life, certain bloggers that I read their blog inspired me and changed my life. People I've met in the, in the personal finance community that I've just like been so inspiring. I want to be able to do that. How cool would that be? And so that is the number one kind of, um, purpose for what I'm doing. It's not followers and it's not money. I mean, cause also like sometimes I think I'm like,

what am I going to do? Like, you know, see all these people. I mean, I've had lots of people on the show who have been reached, you know, financial independence, you know, fire people. Yes. You know, at an early age. And I think that's great. Good for them.

But for me, I'm like, I don't want to hustle that hard or live a different lifestyle than I'm living right now in order to just get a million dollars by the time I'm 30 or 40, you know, or whatever. I'm doing what I'm doing and it's working and I'm building my wealth. I'm paying down my mortgage. I'm being responsible with my money, but I don't think I'd be happier if I, you know, reach that FI number by a certain timeline. Like, you know what I mean?

I think the difference with your career trajectory is that it's about longevity. Yeah, I just want something for me that's sustainable. And that's what I try to, I think, talk about on the show is being like creating a process and a lifestyle that's sustainable. I don't like things that are kind of like a crash diet. Lots of these kind of fire things where it's like, I'm going to, you know, reach this by 30. Like, I see that all the time on Instagram. I'm going to achieve this by 30. And now that I'm 35, I'm like, well, I missed that boat. But also, you know, it's not sustainable because it's like, what did you and also, again, let's be real. And this is, I think, something that bugs me a lot is lots of people are not very transparent about, well, how did you actually achieve that? And usually it's because they earned, you know, a very high salary from an

early age. Maybe they had, you know, like right out of high school or not high school, sorry, university. And maybe they didn't have any student loans. That makes a big difference. There's so many factors. There's so many factors. And so that's the thing that I always kind of try to share on all my channels is, you know, good for them, not for you. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. What matters is what you're doing. So that's something, again, I'm always constantly reminding myself, like, I'm doing this so I can run a business that makes me excited to get up

in the morning. I'm creating content and courses and education that is going to help people because that's really what I want to do. And really all I want in terms of like success, like what does that mean to me is just getting that feedback from, you know, listeners, course students, people that buy my budget spreadsheets. Hey, this really helped me. And then earning enough that I can pay my bills, go on some vacations, retire at 65. I'm good yeah like I feel super blessed and lucky to be able to say that I even have that I don't need to be Oprah I don't need to be like the wealthiest person out there or have a tv show or whatever obviously I wouldn't say no if someone

wants to offer that to me but that's not the goal because I don't feel like from all the people I've talked to over the years who do have those things who have a lot of money who have a tv show yeah yeah have you know all these kinds of things that when you you look at it you're like oh that sounds so cool they're not happier because of that stuff it's it's the the stuff that brings them joy usually is is the simple things like family I get to take time off when I want to uh whatever the case it's that kind of stuff that material stuff or the stuff that we think will make you happy it isn't and another thing that i also want to mention because i see this a lot on social media yeah i mean talk about this a lot i'm on social media a lot because the pandemic okay we all are we all are we all are but it's um

this idea that um money is the solution to all of your problems it sure as hell can help a lot of your problems but money itself shouldn't be the goal because it should be well what are you going to do with that money right what is that money going to provide to you and usually then you'll actually find the real answer which is security comfort just um peace of mind those are the things that you actually want it's not the money the money can help you get that so so that's why we need to kind of move away from this idea that i'm going to be a millionaire by this age or i'm going to be a billionaire i see that now yeah it's not even cool to be a millionaire i think it's the idea that we forget that money is a means to an end yeah is this a tool it's just

a tool it will not in and of itself this a tool? It's just a tool. It will not in and of itself make you happy because there's a lot of people out there who have a lot of money that are not happy. There's a lot of people that don't have a lot of money that are way happier than those millionaires. True. I mean, would I rather be sad on a yacht? Sure.

Sure. But you're still sad. You're still sad. Right? I know. it's you're still sad you're still sad so right i know that does lead me really nicely to my next question about the fact that you have a very front-facing career yeah you mean like i'm i'm out there you're out there eyes are on you eyes are on me what does that feel like weird honestly i try not to think about it and also like i do keep a lot of things private i am starting to

share a lot more and i think what most people don't really realize is the reason i've never shared like my now you know i don't maybe it's as popular now but you know when i first started blogging people would share their budgets they would share their income they would share their net worth numbers i never did that because i was embarrassed because i was broke yeah my 20s and broke um so i was kind of ashamed quite honestly um which is ridiculous i shouldn't't have been ashamed because I was making, you know, progress and you shouldn't be comparing yourself to others. But anyway, but a big reason why I don't share some of my numbers is because it is kind of

linked to my husband. He is part of my family. And, you know, we do things together and he really wants to keep that, you know, some of those numbers private. So when I do share my numbers it really is just my money it has nothing to do with so it's like you know my portion of the the house and then all of my kind of stuff but that like i i basically want to respect the people that i need to respect because i don't want to he's been so supportive obviously we've been

together 14 years yeah he's just like yeah just don't share too much about that stuff because it affects me too you know there's also the idea that boundaries are great boundaries exactly and setting them is healthy everyone doesn't need to know everything no they don't need to and also like my whole you know platform is about helping you as the the listener as the the core student it's it's not the the message and something that used to be i feel like something that i felt bad about i'm like it's not about me because i don't really have a great amazing story i didn't pay a hundred thousand dollars in debt in two years i didn't reach a million dollars by 30 you know i didn't do anything crazy yeah but i feel like i've actually been doing well and i'm

happy with how things are and also like the other thing is like, I have been taking, you know, all of these years to not only do all this research and self learn, self educate myself, but also doing proper training. So I can be a better educator to you. You know, first I became an accredited financial counselor. Now I'm on the path to become eventually a CFP. And so that's why I'm like,

I don't think it's super important for me to share how much money I have or how much my business earns. Because why do you care how much my business earns? Like, at the end of the day, you're coming to this podcast, you're going on my blog, you're going on my YouTube channel or following me, because you want to know how to help yourself. Who cares about me? You know, like, when I want to learn something, like like how do I bake bread? I don't care how much money that person on Instagram with the bread Instagram makes on his bread business. I just want to know how to make bread. You know what I mean? No. And so that's something I'm always very mindful of. It's like, is this actually helpful or is this just to give myself a pat on the back? Yeah. If it's not helpful, then I'm not going to share it.

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. As your sister, and now who's someone who, you know, works with you, that it is interesting that you know i forget that the people say youtubers i watch or you know different podcasts that i listen to where how i feel about those people like oh they're so cool people think that way about you yeah i don't think about that that's weird that's a weird thing to think about it and also that seems like a bit pompous for me to be like well like please

but i think you know like literally whenever i think about that there's another voice in my head being like get over yourself jessica you're a personal finance content creator the nerdiest niche in the world i know and um but that reminds me of that someone um you asked uh instagram question and someone said like oh you know a little bit cheeky like oh like uh what does it feel like to have a sister who's famous i don't think of you as famous well no because i'm not because you're not you know yeah i think yeah fame fame to me is like i don't know like jennifer lawrence or something you know like someone who's like a movie star or something like that you know yeah but i mean i definitely from working on the back end of your stuff um i do see that you know as opposed to all the people

who have um you know their platforms are really based on yeah they're they're yeah working towards a number goal um so which we all love to read those stories we all love i love i'm so nosy and so curious about what everyone's doing with their money for sure love that yeah however most of the time not relatable no because like personally i'm not it's not like i'm working towards oh i have to be a millionaire by the time i'm 30 i mean clock's a ticking not gonna happen no but um i see that uh for you and like if we weren't sisters, I know why people would follow you. Oh, why? Because of the relatability. Oh, good.

And I mean, yeah, it's the, you're just like regular Jess. Because I am. Literally, that's all I got. I know. Right? Right.

Like that's what I, I think defaulted to because I'm like, okay, I don't have any like special story. So maybe let's just try being me. Yeah. Give it a go and see what happens.

And a big like way I did that was starting the podcast because it's me talking and there's no hiding behind a fancy photo or whatever. Not that I know how to take a good instagram picture no idea how to do that that's something i don't and i'm never gonna learn how i just don't care i just don't know how i think i'm too old to learn how to do those poses no anyways i don't i don't care enough to do that so the podcast was a great way for people to get to know me as me not just like a an image or text or something like that where people can kind of make their own maybe assumptions but they can hear me and my voice and my thoughts and be

like oh okay i think i kind of i get a sense of who this person is totally yeah definitely one moving away from a bit of that um maybe more selfishly yeah i want to know motivation yeah elusive as self-employed people so oh so how do you motivate yourself as you're yeah you're self-employed yeah well so yeah you need to create your own goals and benchmarks so what i have done for definitely the past five years no yeah especially it really started when i first quit my job became self-employed so this all kind of happened the new new uh kind of life journey happened you know it started in january 2017 and i was actually talking to one of uh my husband's friends who's a very successful realtor very you know ambitious he's doing so many great

things i'm always like in awe of him and uh he says one of the things that he does he's like i know it sounds cheesy but i uh make a vision board every single year of what i want to accomplish and um almost every year i accomplish almost everything so it's not about being again perfect but no if you put some you know again use like the smart goals the smart action wait what is it what is it specific measurable actionable realistic and time-based very good yes i know finally memorized that um kind of method of uh making goals and then create a visual representation of those goals, which I try to do. Sometimes I get lazy and I just like put post-its on my corkboard in my office.

So I see them every single day. It's not quite visual, like a pretty magazine photo or whatever, but just something that I can look at every day to be like, what are we going to accomplish this year? And you can do that for your life goals, your career goals, business goals, whatever. And I've definitely, it's definitely been something that I've fine tuned. You know, sometimes I, you know, the first couple of years put too many goals and feel terrible because I didn't accomplish all of them. Now I like to stick to maybe five goals, maybe six or something. And they again are like, I know I can achieve them

if I just follow through. And so having set those goals at the beginning of the year or whenever you want, it's never too late to set goals and then putting them someplace that you see every single day. So they're always front of mind. And also when you're like in that kind of state of business where you feel overwhelmed, you're really busy and then you're kind of like, what am I even doing? You know, you have so many things on your to dodo list. Then you can take a look at, wait, wait, wait, what are the goals again? And let's take a look at the to-do list to see what connects to those goals. Sometimes there'll be like things in your to-do list, you're like, this isn't actually helping me achieve my goals. And why am I even, why did I put that on the to-do list? Like,

there's so many things that I find myself get excited about. Like, for instance, I just recently worked with a, I hired a brand strategist so she can help me, you know, create new fonts and colors and really create a good visual for my brand because everything I've done, I've done it myself. And I'm like, I don't know what I, I don't know. I don't even like the color pink. How is that my brand color? So I needed someone to help me with that. And I'm like, oh, I can't wait to just go in and change all of the things that I've got my website all the colors i'm like whoa whoa let's just calm down you have so many other things that are more important that you do now look at your

goals there will be time to update everything this is not the time so setting goals is key another thing is having then kind of chunkifying them and being like, okay, so those are the goals. What are the steps to actually achieve those goals? So as an example, one big goal of mine this year was to actually do quite a few courses to become most likely I'm going to become a QAFP before a CFP, which is a qualified associate financial planner. And in order to do that, there's a number of courses I have to do through the Canadian Securities Institute. And so I created basically like,

okay, these are the courses I need to do. I want to do at least two of them. But if I pass the first two, we're going to try to do the other two because they are shorter courses. And then I created a timeline. So basically one course a quarter. So again, creating those goals and then really

chunkifying them because one of my goals is to become a qafb chunkify them what do you have to do what are the steps well i have to pass all these courses okay well how are you going to pass all those courses well i've got a timeline uh try to study and pass the exam every single quarter of this year so that should hopefully mean that i uh so just getting really really specific you've got to get really specific, outline everything, write things down, try different methods. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I like writing things down in a notebook. Sometimes it's a spreadsheet. Sometimes it's a Google Doc, whatever the case.

But just get things written down and organized and then literally create that schedule and then just stick to it. So it's kind of like I feel like sometimes it's like splitting yourself in two where it's like there's you as the worker and you as the boss, even though you're the same person. That's a good way to think. I have Jessica as the boss and then I've got Jessica as the worker.

And sometimes Jessica as the worker can procrastinate and make excuses. Then Jessica, the boss comes in to be like, hey, remember this whole strategy, this whole kind of timeline and calendar we created? Let's get back to that. So that's been the biggest thing for me. And then also trying different methods, for instance, for like my daily to do list. I've got, you know, some to do things that I have to do every single

day. And then there's, you know, kind of bigger projects, smaller projects. And sometimes, you know, I write them all down in a notebook and then like to cross them off. Sometimes I find that I'm not looking at my notebook anymore. So that means, oh, okay, I guess that method isn't working. I'm getting a bit too comfortable with it. So let's choose a different, let's use a spreadsheet with a checklist. Or recently I've been using Asana. We use Asana to kind of keep things organized.

So sometimes it's about rotating the different methods. If you're like, I'm getting lazy, I'm not using Asana. Okay, let's use the workbook again or something like that. Okay, yeah, that's's actually that's very helpful and you know with goals what about um do you as uh maybe more so in the beginning did you ever have a plan b i mean yeah the plan b was to get a job oh the plan b yeah i don't think most people know this i think i shared this on my instagram i can't remember um but my plan was when i quit my job i gave myself one year one year to at least match or um beat the salary that i left behind because that would be proof to me that okay this isn't just you know you're playing around this isn't a hobby this is you you know actually making

a living um and so i gave myself a year but if i didn't accomplish that by the year's end then it'd be time for me to look for another job and then it wouldn't be the worst thing because it's like it's not like i was just hanging out i was like trying but i could put that on my resume that i oh i've learned all these new things i worked for myself for this year all this kind of stuff so i that was my plan b is just to get a job basically for For me now, that's not really my plan. That's always kind of a plan B, I guess. Yeah, I mean, it's not a bad plan B.

But at this point, I think things are going well because every year my business revenue increases. I have more free time, which means I'm not working harder. I'm working smarter and things are just kind of naturally expanding but also the big thing that's been the biggest difference in my business is how what my business actually is before it really was most of my revenue was from influencer work working with brands now it's not as much honestly most of it really does come down to well I've got my podcast so i do have ads so that's yes that's not really influencer work i would say that's more just like i'm running like

a content thing yeah you know it's ads um like you know if i didn't run the podcast and i wouldn't make money so yeah i know uh so i've got the podcast of course um do make some revenue through youtube which is um uh just like ads uh with that and then I've got my budget spreadsheets. I've got my investing course, both building blueprint for Canadians. We'll be releasing another course this fall, which I'm very excited about, which is more on the financial planning front. But the goal for me was always to create a business where I didn't have to rely on working with brands. I just want to work with brands, you know, enough so I can basically pay my bills and have money so I could eventually create my own products and services on my own.

Excellent. You just want to always, like I tell you all the time, it's so important to have multiple streams of income. I agree. But you also don't want to pigeonhole yourself. And also, you know, when I see all these like influencers, you know, online, I'm like, but you do one wrong thing. You get canceled.

Where's them? You have no more money. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not that I think I'm going to get canceled or, you know, just make other i'm like but you do one wrong thing you get canceled whereas them you have no more money you know what i mean yeah not that i think i'm gonna get canceled or you know that should be but it's just one of those things just like you just want to basically recession in my mind this is the term i use and this was something that me and a bunch of women who were on a retreat several years ago uh chatted about before the pandemic which is actually funnily enough we're all talking about how can we recession proof our businesses? Because we all were millennials that dealt with the first recession or the last one. How can we, you know, set ourselves up? So if something happens, we'll still have a business, we can still make money. And I've been working hard at doing that. And it's

so far so good. So I thought we can now move into let's do some money talk. Okay, let's do some money talk. Because guess what? money talk because guess what some money podcast it sure is it sure as hell is okay what do you got so i was thinking what is the biggest thing that you think someone should money-wise look into before they start working for themselves so i mean yeah taxes or what do you think is the big is it taxes i mean well people always forget about taxes no i'd say honestly the biggest thing like it taxes? I mean, well, people always forget about taxes. No, I'd say, honestly, the biggest thing, like before you quit your day job, even if you had like a side hustle like me,

where you were generating income from that, before you leave your job, you really should be like, take some time to create a business plan, which I did not do and I regret because it made that first year of business so much harder. But also, more importantly, have a emergency fund, not just a personal one, but also one for your business.

That was one of my questions. Yeah, because, you know, Do you have one for your business? Yes, because, of course, you need to have money for your personal, you need to pay your personal bills, like your rent, your utilities, your groceries, but also for your business. I mean, for me, a lot of my business expenses are like monthly subscriptions because all of these different apps i use like yes my course platform that's like a monthly subscription or it could be a yearly subscription that you need

to save money uh in advance for so um if i didn't have money you know because there's there's times where i'm making a lot of money make and then there's times like this summer every single summer i make hardly any money i think people don't realize that. And that's usually okay with me because I try to take time off during the summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like almost nothing for real. But the rest of the year is like, okay, we're doing fine. So you've got to be prepared for those ups and downs of your income.

And you do that by having a personal emergency fund. So you can always pay your personal bills, but also a business emergency fund so you can pay your business bills. Okay. Yeah. That was one of my questions afterwards. Yeah. So that's a really important thing. I think another thing that people forget about is, and again, this depends on what your business is, but getting business insurance, so liability insurance. So I think a lot of people too also think that if you incorporate your business then you're good you're safe you've got this extra liability um kind of protection which you sort of do but you actually still need business insurance because basically

all you know incorporating means is someone cannot sue you personally and then take all your personal assets they can sue your corporation but again that means that they can see your corporation possibly win that could be a very expensive court battle how you pay for all that is business insurance so make sure to get some business insurance to protect yourself and that is it goes for if you're incorporated or you're a sole proprietor okay cool that's a very good tip one of mine and i actually don't think i know the answer to this is do you have a money philosophy um that's a good question um i mean i don't know if i have one that i've like invented myself but there's definitely some you don't have to philosophies that i live by um i'd say like the one that i i learned at a very young age from and i think i shared this on the podcast

from like a french professor i had in middle school who I think was going through something he said you know be very careful with credit never buy anything that you cannot afford to pay you know for in cash so that's something that's I mean obviously you can't do that with things like buying a house or sometimes buying a car but for lots of little things especially like just those like personal wants I never buy anything on credit that I cannot afford to immediately pay off that day so that's one thing that I've just lived by and will always live by I live by that as well I think our mom yes was very big on that yeah credit cards are not a debit card no she's still to the state mainly uses her debit card for purchases for me i don't as much i usually i have like a good system with my credit cards and stuff like

that but um but yeah it's basically like let's not go crazy because credit cards can be dangerous if you you know it's very easy to spend on them right very easy and there's a difference between wants and needs yes exactly um yeah so we definitely have that in common yeah but i'd say like another one that i know you live by too is just like living within your means yes right so they kind of go hand in hand it's like don't spend more money than you can afford to to spend but really like taking a look at your income level and not you know getting caught up in what other people are doing and spending how they're spending their money you've got to really just focus on what can we afford or I afford what makes sense for me and my own personal goals and then just stay true to that it can be so easy just to look at what other

people are doing and feel like well I should have that or I should buy that or I'm going to buy that it's like but why though yeah and I I it leads me to to because your whole business is talking about money and money for you know decades and decades has been a very taboo subject um I do talk about money with my friends obviously I talk about it with with you and the rest of our family but um you know i talk about it with my friends but uh i would say it's still a little like oh should i ask like oh you're getting a new job like what's the pay what's the salary yeah i am curious i would have to ask do you think it's less taboo now i think it's less taboo because of all this personal finance people are getting more into it i haven't i say it's a

lot more popular i i think oh yeah i feel like because the pandemic or maybe it's just because i've been online a lot more i feel like there's so many more people creating content about this and talking about this which in general i think is really good because we do need to to make this um just more mainstream and just like a normal thing you shouldn't have to feel like it's you know inappropriate to talk about hey are we splitting the bill or can you pay your half and i pay you know or or just like asking your friend hey do you mind me asking how much you're earning and then you know also on the other side of it if you're you don't want to share it just be like i'm not really comfortable which is fine um which is fine or you know very well what a lot of people do that i know of who are entrepreneurs because

we you know talk a lot about rates and just like how much you're charging for this so we can help each other because you know the more we all earn the more we all earn you know it's not we don't want i don't want anyone to charge uh you know significantly lower than me if they're doing something similar to me because then that means next time that brand will come to me be like sorry we have a smaller budget exactly you know so we don't want that um but you know one kind of thing you can do is instead of giving the specific number is giving a range it's between this and this just so then you can have an idea of you know this is so important especially when you're looking for a job or interviewing and want to negotiate really getting clear on what are some ranges.

I don't need a specific dollar amount like $96,000 or $26,000 or whatever. What is the range so I can have a good kind of idea of where I should start? That's very good. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. Do you remember any of the questions that we got from people on Instagram? Let me check. Let me check my phone.

Okay, so I've got the questions. I'm going to hand them over to you and you can ask. Oh, I really enjoy this question. Okay. Do you and your sister have the same personal finance slash investing strategy? Why or why not? Well, you would know what I'm up to. So what do you think? I would say we do have very similar personal finance, just philosophies in general, because we grew up in the same house.

We're both major town savers. Yeah. And we're very afraid of debt. Yes. Very afraid of debt. I hate debt. I hate it i think we both um it does i think fall into finance category of just the idea of hard work yeah working hard and we both

work during school so we both work during university to pay for university and uh so yeah i would say any yeah no yeah i think that's i mean those are those things that we grew up with because we you know we grew up i'd say middle class but maybe lower middle class i would say yeah when i was like a like smaller kid it was definitely i would say lower middle yeah and then you know as our parents got older and you know got raises and you know yes progress in their careers obviously there's more money but you know and i had lots of conversations with her mom actually over this trip about you know some of our kind of money isms you know like how we are afraid of debt but we're also kind of afraid of taking chances in terms of risk and that was something i had actually personally overcome is the idea that if i start investing my money

i'm going to lose all my money and that really comes from uh her parents our grandparents because they're depression era and they also came from very poor families like poverty and you may remember this if you're a long-time listener but you can definitely find it and sarah will put in the show notes there is an episode of my grandpa unfortunately he is no longer with us but it was one of the best things that i've ever done on this podcast was be able to learn about his story and, and, and just how he literally figured out a way out of poverty and not, not an easy thing to do. But because of, you know, kind of our backgrounds and also like on the, you know, my dad's side of the family, also not rich, you know, that's why I think we have a lot of the things that we have, you know, it's like, we're great savers and we're really anti-debt, but also the thing that we have you know it's like we're great savers and we're really anti-debt but also the thing that we all kind of need to work on is this idea of building wealth the next

kind of thing so that's something that i've definitely learned i think um yeah because one of the other questions is what did our parents teach us about finances growing up and honestly it was just to save it was that's the biggest thing and also um they were very transparent in terms of like what we could and couldn't afford yes so i know other you know families i'd always be oh how could they afford that trip to disneyland or how could they afford to buy this new house or new wardrobe or whatever and honestly there was one i don't know if you remember them but there were some neighbors of ours years ago when we're kids and they had such they had a nice house it was friends with her you know daughter and they had a pool they had a hot tub um she had those kind of motorized uh you know

kid cars or whatever they had all these cool toys and everything and they after a few years they had to sell their house because they went bankrupt they were putting everything on credit they were just living beyond their means trying to keep up the joneses and it was kind of for me you know even as a kid because my our parents talked about like this is what happened like they could not afford that house it went into they went bankrupt they had to um sell it and move and all this kind of stuff uh it made me really aware of oh so it's really really important to be aware of you know credit and debt and all that kind of stuff and i would also say um especially our mom the value of money in general yeah i would say um

as opposed to some people you know even when i was at university um the fact that i you know paid for school made me value my education more. And whereas maybe I had some friends or some people that I met in school who didn't pay for school. And they were a lot more blasé when it came to effort. Yeah. Which isn't to say don't save, you money for your kid in rsp i think it's amazing we would have loved that i would have loved it but i think it's also equally important to teach your kids at the same time the value of money and you know tell them where did this money

come from well we saved all these years yes for you to go to college. And also you can take that money away from them. You don't have to give it to them. So really that's the key thing, isn't it? It's not, and I think our parents honestly did a good job, mainly our mom, because she's the money manager of the family, is being open and honest with your kids. Don't be like, oh no, you're too young for that. Or no, it's really inappropriate to talk about money. It's like in this day and age, no, you need to talk about money and just be transparent. Like it's not in our budget and and then they'll be like what's a budget it's like well let me show you what a family budget looks like yeah it's like that like that those things had such a huge impact on our yeah how we manage our money today

and i think it's even even the little things of you know i'm sure same thing like when i was in middle school you know there's fat farms if anyone remembers that callback of a shoe but i really wanted them i'm like a what fat farms you don't remember that fat it's ph fat yes okay okay but there are um darina jeans if anyone remembers those jeans you're six years younger so i have no idea what you're talking about um but anyways uh i wanted these yeah really wanted these jeans and quite a few of my classmates had those jeans and mom point blank was like i am not spending a hundred dollars on jeans you're 13 i know and as a 13 year old i was like why yeah but as an adult i I was like, fair, that makes sense. And I would have to say that that actually going forward in my adult life definitely made me think about, OK, when I spend my money, I don't want to just spend it on trends.

There has to be a good reason I'm parting with my money. But yeah, that could also fall back into just you don't want to be too much of a penny pincher no and believe me i have lots of pant stories for you i remember every because there's so many trends i remember in middle school cargo pants became a big thing and mom refused like there was this great pair and i'm like oh i look so great in them i want these and the other too expensive by her uh standards and so the only way I can get cargo pants was at Costco. And they were for boys and they were too big. And I was way too, I wore them anyway,

but I was very embarrassed every time I wore them. Also, I remember when flared jeans became the thing. So like mom jeans were out, flared jeans were in. And I'm like, oh, I want some flared jeans. And I think my mom only allowed me to buy two pairs, one like jean, like blue jean and one black jean. And she's like, but otherwise you have to wear all the rest of the jeans that you already have

because she did not believe flare jeans were gonna be a thing. Well, they lasted like 15 years, mom. So I literally wore those two pairs of pants, just like rotation every, so it was like, sometimes it was like the black jean three times and then the blue jeans two times every single day for like a year because I was I did not I could not wear those mom jeans and now mom jeans are in again now they're in and you

you have a pair I certainly do have a pair and you know what I actually look good in them I think you do I mean full circle full circle but those are things it's like you're embarrassed as a kid you're like oh my god but also she did teach me about like it's don't just blow all your money on clothes like who cares and because also like then the next year also i was growing so it's like they didn't fit exactly so like she you know and literally in six months usually yeah things will have changed yeah so yeah um this is a very nice question. What is your favorite thing about each other? That's cute.

That's cute. Do you want to go first? Do you want me to go first? You go first. Okay. My favorite thing about you. I don't think I even. I don't even.

I don't think either of us know. I don't think we know. Let me just think of something on the spot. I would say you are very thoughtful. Yeah. You're a very thoughtful person. Sometimes too much. Sometimes you think too much about other people. But I think in general, you have really good intentions. You're very always like thinking out for other people.

Thank you. That's nice um i would say mine is i very much admire your um go-getter ability and you're just your ability to just be like i'm gonna do this and it does i will figure out a way to do it. I'm just going to do it. Yeah. And that's both in personal and business for you. That's true. That's how I met my husband. That's, yeah. I like him.

He's going to be my boyfriend. Pretty much. Pretty much. He didn't have a choice. No, he didn't. Yeah. You know what? I hear that from some people like, oh, how do you, you know, try all these things or

where do you get that drive? I've always had some sort of drive. I don't know where it came from. I've had it since I was, I'd say, starting in like middle school. And it honestly was sparked by, I think, people not thinking I could achieve things. Like, oh, yeah, sure. And they're like, well, I'll show you. And I definitely have that I'll show you mentality still a little bit. But i don't know i think it's it's not that i just i'm fearless i'm

certainly not fearless i'm afraid of everything um it's that i basically i'm afraid of the thing and i do it anyway like i literally force myself to do the thing anyway kind of like I don't know what's a good example but I don't know probably starting this podcast starting this podcast I mean that was terrifying but it honestly like to give you kind of a weird visual it's like someone opening a door and it's like the arctic or something that's super cold you're like I don't want to go in there that seems really cold but I need to like you know go a few miles or whatever to pick up this golden chalice I don't want to go in there. That seems really cold, but I need to like, you know, go a few miles or whatever to pick up this golden chalice. I don't know when I, I don't know where I'm going with this, but let's just see where

this happens. Indiana Jones? I don't know. Maybe it's a bit of Indiana Jones. And they're like, I don't want to, but then you're like, well, hell, I'll just do it anyway. And then you get into the cold, you walk and it's really hard. And, but then you get to the kind of the, you know, the reward at the end. It's like doing something uncomfortable to get to a point that you're, so you're more comfortable. And it

really just starts with doing one thing that terrifies you and then doing another thing and another thing and another thing forever. Like, honestly, like it really started, I started really trying this out. I mean, I started, you know, really, I started really trying this out I mean it started you know really I guess when I applied to film school like I don't think most people know this because I talk a lot about how I went to SFU for for film but uh the first year that I applied I was rejected I did not get in so that was a big failure and knocked my ego but also it was great because I'm like you know what that's okay they say you don't have like enough experience or whatever I'll apply again the next year and then the next year I got on their waiting list so I still didn't even get in I was kind of devastated I was trying to make other plans I'm like should I go to BCIT

and their their video production program and uh then I luckily got in someone dropped out and I got in and that's you know how I got it so it's like that was like a thing that I that was terrifying. There was some failure involved and I did it anyway. And I just it all worked out. But yeah, then slowly, especially after I finished university and, you know, that's when I realized, OK, in order to get to where you want to be in life, you have to be uncomfortable and you have to be afraid of things. But then do the thing anyway. And just embrace embrace those feelings that feel so terrifying the uncomfortable like the anxiety the fear the possible regret the the shame the like all of the

negative things you can think about you may encounter those do the thing anyway you may surprise yourself because it may actually be good on the other side and also usually what you're thinking of the worst possible scenarios are very far-reaching usually they're just like ridiculous you're like everyone's gonna stop being my friend and i'm gonna lose all my money and i'm gonna have to move back in with my parents and i'm gonna yeah yeah it's like no everything's fine like honestly that was a big fear of me and josh when we moved to uh toronto we thought the first year we were not going to get any jobs and we like sold all of our furniture and didn't know anyone in toronto and we're like well i guess the worst case scenario is we don't make any money and then the little money that we have left we will drive back to vancouver and move back in with my parents yeah

and that would have been you know embarrassing because we literally left be like we're gonna be bye we're gonna be so great in toronto that's why we're leaving because we literally left so we can just kind of kickstart our careers and so it would have been really devastating to be like um so that didn't work out can we move back but you know what even if that did happen you would have found a different route so it's fine yeah yeah and sometimes i find i work very good under extreme circumstances yeah especially if it's things that like oh i'm so close to failure that's what usually when like i don't know something happens and i like kind of move a switch to overdrive and you know then you kind of surprise yourself with how capable you actually are true um and then um i'll just add to that one of the things that i also love about you

is your sense of love i said love i said love it didn't say like sisters um uh sense of humor oh you think i'm funny yeah that's nice you think i'm funny yeah i do yeah there you go we have the same sense we have we're i mean it's gonna be i will have to listen back to this episode i hope i hope there's some funny parts i hope so too i'm also just thinking will we sound like there's only one person speaking because we sound identical because we sound the same i think my voice is deeper than yours i think so too yeah um but we'll see you'll find out if you're confused with who the hell is talking sorry sorry can't help it sisters that's a weird thing that ew ew ew okay yeah so that was pretty much those were the questions were the questions well i guess this is

time to wrap it up do you want to wrap it up and i'm actually just going to wrap it up because then it was like 10 minutes of us just talking about things that were irrelevant to the podcast so anyways thank you so much for listening to this episode this is episode 294 in case you're wondering uh sarah is going to have to re-listen to this episode and write the show notes i hope you really enjoyed this a special interview that i did with my sister sarah and again um if you want to hear our original interview my gosh i should probably re-listen to it because it's been years. It's episode 53 from 2016. Gosh. So yeah, hopefully you enjoyed this special kind of bonus episode to kind of kick off season 13 of the More Money Podcast. For all the show notes of any episode ever of the show, just go to my website, jessicamorehouse.com

slash podcast, or for a specific episode, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever the number of the episode is. And just as a reminder, make sure to follow me on Instagram. You can find me at Jessica I Morehouse. And if you also want to follow my sister, Sarah, well, hers is at Sarah J Morehouse. How weird is it that we both did first name middle initial last name that's weird but hey didn't even know that until I just looked at our Instagram today you can also follow me on Twitter at J E S S I underscore Morehouse and I also have a YouTube channel that has a lot of great videos on there that very different than the podcast. So you can find me. Just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash YouTube or, you know, Google Jessica Morehouse inside

YouTube and you'll be able to find my channel and subscribe it. Very exciting that I was able to, you know, pass the 10,000 subscriber mark over the summer. Very exciting. So anyways, that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening. A big shout out to my podcast editor, as always, Matt Rideout. And I will see you back here next Wednesday with a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast.

Until then, have a good rest of your week. Have a good weekend. See you soon. This podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network find out more at women in media.network