More Money Podcast - 295 How to Change Careers at Any Age - Jennifer Turliuk, CEO of Makerkids and Author

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

I’ve seen so many people either quit their job or reconsider their current profession over the course of the pandemic. It’s not completely surprising that with so many changes in the last 18 months, everyone is taking stock of their life. That’s why today’s podcast episode is so timely. I’m joined by Jennifer Turliuk, entrepreneur and author of How to Figure Out What to Do With Your Life (Next). Jennifer Turliuk is an entrepreneur, writer, and speaker that resides in Toronto. Jennifer is the CEO of MakerKids, which started the first and largest makerspace for kids in the world and now runs award-winning virtual programs, camps, and parties on Coding, Robotics, and Minecraft. Her book, How to Figure Out What to Do With Your Life (Next) breaks down her strategy of how to make a career change at any age and what led her to her own change in career path. My career path has not been linear and I’m always excited to have guests on the show that further reinforce the idea that it doesn’t have to be. Jennifer’s book is a great toolkit for anyone looking to make a change and to remember that it doesn’t matter what age you are, you can start or change your life at any time. For full episode show notes visit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and welcome back to the show. This is episode 295, very close to that 300 mark. Should I do something special? Like I could be like every basic bee on Instagram and get those gold balloons with the number, which I might because I'm basic, or I could do a cake and I kind of like that because then at the end of it, you get cake. Like with balloons, you get your photo and then you have these balloons. What are you going to do with those? Cake. You can eat it. Cupcakes. Maybe I could do a bunch of cupcakes in the shape of 300. We're going to see. We're going to figure it out. I've got a few

more episodes to figure that out. But anyways, I clearly forgot what I'm doing. Hi, hello, welcome to this episode. I've got an amazing guest for you for this episode, Jennifer Turley. She's an entrepreneur, writer and speaker. She's also the CEO of maker kids, which started the first and largest maker space for kids in the world and now runs award winning virtual programs programs camps and parties on coding robotics and minecraft that help kids build confidence resilience social skills and a positive relationship with technology but not only that she is an author and she's on the show to talk about her new book called how to figure out what to do with your life next which deepak chopra

called a brilliant instruction manual. And honestly, I loved reading this book. It's something I wish existed when I was starting out and trying to figure out what the heck I'm going to do with my life in my 20s. Heck, I'm 35 and still trying to figure that out. I feel like you'll never really know the answer. I think it's just like life is just a windy, twisty road with, you know, and you don't have a map and you're just figuring out as best as you can. But at least now she has a book that really does kind of answer some really important questions, but also gives you some great actionable things to do. Things that I, you know, made a lot of mistakes along the way that if you read her book and also listen to this podcast, then hopefully you can avoid some costly mistakes. But she has a very interesting story, which she shares in this episode just about how, you know, she did like lots of us did the you know, the normal life checklist that were

told by our parents to, you know, go to school and get a good job and then you know, be able to buy a place and all that stuff. She did all that. And she wasn't happy. I mean, that's literally my life to a T. I did all those things, was not happy until I did something totally outside of my comfort zone, which was, well, number one, start this podcast, and then eventually quit my job and run my own company, which I've been doing for almost five years now. So it's an interesting, we have a really great, interesting conversation just about, you know, expectations and kind of going against those expectations, whether it's our parents or society, and how to build a life that is meaningful for us that we want and how to do that at

any age, not just in your 20s or 30s, but any, any age, it is never too late to change the direction of your life. So very excited to have her on the show. We have a really great conversation that I know you're going to get a lot of. And of course, I'm going to give away a copy of her book, which I'll share more information about at the end of this episode. Now, before I get to that interview with Jennifer, I just want to remind you that, hey, I'm going to be sponsoring this episode of the More Money Podcast and let you know a little bit about my investing course, Wealth Building building blueprint for Canadians. So this is an online course that is specific for Canadians

who want to learn about investing, but specifically investing in a passive way, which I talk about on the podcast all the time. That's why that's how I personally invest. You know, it's all about getting rich slowly, long term investing, not speculation or gambling, but how to invest in a diversified portfolio of low cost index ETF so that you can build wealth over time and you know, retire one day or achieve some of your other investment goals. So if you want to find out more information about it, you can go to jessicamorehouse.com slash WBB or just check out the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 295. There is an application process. And then if you're approved, then you have a special call with me. Yeah, you actually get

to call with me, which is really cool. So I can share more about the course and see if it's the right fit for you. But take a look at some of the testimonials. Actually, since I have you here, let me share one with you. Okay, so this is a testimonial from a student, Samantha from Bedford, Nova Scotia. She says, I started this course because I wanted to learn how to invest my money in order to plan for my future. This course has done that and so much more. Jessica starts by building your knowledge foundation on the world of investments and slowly brings towards action items that have helped me so much to understand how and where to grow my investments depending on my goal and timeline. I am so grateful I found Jessica and can't wait to see where my investments are in one year and 10 years.

And there's a ton of other more, you know, testimonials on that landing page, jessicabornhouse.com slash WBB. And there's so many great parts of the course, not just all the curriculum, but there's a private Facebook group, there's so many great parts of the course, not just all the curriculum, but there's a private Facebook group, there's tons of worksheets and spreadsheets and tools to help you, you know, actually activate what you learn. There's lots of mini lessons and video tutorials and exclusive expert interview series with some of the top investment professionals from, you know, places like Tangerine and Wellsimple and Questrade and BMO ETFs. You also get lifetime access. And the one of the best features of this course that I don't know if you'll be able to find in many other

courses is I do a bi weekly q&a call over zoom. And you know, you have lifetime access. So you'll always have access to these calls. This is a way where you can get direct feedback from me, ask your questions live, and you know, just feel more confident and feel more, you know, like we're all in this together as community learning this stuff, applying this stuff. So ultimately, we can all build our wealth. Anyways, that's my little spiel about my online course. Let's now get to that interview with Jennifer. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Jennifer. I'm so excited to have you on the show, especially with the book that you have out now, How to Figure Out What to Do with Your Life Next. It is honestly a book I wish,

I'm sure, I mean, I think probably part of that inspiration was your own journey, but and I think we have very similar timelines being millennials, but I sure wish this book existed, I don't know, five, six years ago for me personally, but then also right out of university, it would have been a big help. Oh, thanks so much. Thanks for having me on the show. You are so so welcome. So really, like, honestly, I do mean that because honestly, when I finished university, had no idea what I was doing with my life. I was so ill-prepared, like I'm sure most post-grads. And I really literally was Googling how to be an adult or how to figure out what to do with my life to no avail. There was no books available. So I'm glad there's a yearbook out now. But I think it's so important now to, especially during

this time, during the pandemic, and you see so many articles of people talking about making huge career changes, especially since a lot of people gotten used to working from home, and they really like it. And now lots of offices are like, please come back into the office. And people like I don't want to do that. And you see so many people quitting their jobs and making these big changes. But I think making that decision, I mean, that's a really, really big decision. And it could be helpful to have some steps to really figure out what should you do next if you do want to do a career change. And I know there is that stat that it's people change careers on average, five to seven times in their lifetime. I think I've only done it three, but I am young yet. So it is something that I think we should all be kind

of more aware of. And if we do want to do a career change, how do we actually go about that? But before we really dive in, because I have a ton of questions, I'm so excited to talk about your book. Tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you become an entrepreneur yourself? And what kind of inspired you to write this book? Oh, yeah, I'm happy to talk about that. So when I was starting out of university, like when I was leaving university, I took a corporate job. It was like a corporate job that, you know, was the coveted type of job that everyone in my school wanted. It was like the thing to do. But once I got into it, I realized it wasn't for me and I didn't like it. And, you know, it was a great job, but it just didn't have that meaning I was looking for. I didn't feel fulfilled. I thought there must be more to life. And along

the way, I applied for this competition to shadow an angel investor in Silicon Valley. And I was selected as one of the finalists. And by this point, I'd been thinking like every Friday, I was like, on Monday, I'm going to come in and quit. I was like, so dissatisfied. Yeah. And then every Monday I'd get in, I'd be like, oh, you know, I don't know, maybe I'll stay. And this went on for a period of months. And then I was selected as a finalist for this competition. And they said, you can either fly here to do the interview or do it virtually. And then the shadowing would start a week later. And I thought, well, I definitely want to go in person. And in order to satisfy my obligations

to my employer like I need to give two weeks notice so I decided the best thing to do would just be to quit and go to and hope that I get it so that's what I did I'd heard a lot about Silicon Valley at the time and thought maybe it was some a I might be interested in. And I didn't get the shadow position. But what it made me realize is that I wanted to shadow and learn from people there. And so I started cold emailing different professors, investors and entrepreneurs and asking if I could meet with them or shadow them. And that really helped me narrow down what I wanted to do. And I've had a whole bunch of options I was considering. And I found ways to test them out to help me figure out if I wanted to do them or not. And then I decided I wanted to be an

entrepreneur. So I got started with that. And looking back, I'd realized that I'd created a bit of a process that other people could use too. And I wrote an article about it for Forbes, which ended up kind of going viral. And then a lot of people, like hundreds of people were emailing me asking for more information. So I decided to provide that in the form of a book. Yeah, clearly you hit some sort of pain point or something. They're like, oh my gosh, I can relate to that. But let me just get this straight. So you quit your job to interview for this thing that you ultimately didn't get. But then you're just like, well, let's just kind of make some lemonade out of these lemons and just do my own thing. Like, that's pretty ballsy. That's pretty like, that's a big risk you took in my books. That's pretty

great. Oh, thanks. Well, yeah yeah i wasn't sure if i was gonna get it and i was just thinking like okay if i do get it and then they'd want me to start the shadowing a week later then i'd have to break my commitment my like i was supposed to give two weeks notice for my job and i thought i don't want to break my commitment. And I've been wanting to quit anyway. So I thought, you know, I'm just gonna go for it. It wasn't even it wasn't like a paid shadowing experience. But I thought it just might open the door to learning more and meeting people. And in fact, even the interview process did, I was able to then shadow with one of the startups and work with one of the startups that was part of that accelerator program that the angel investor ran. And so, yeah, I mean, once I realized I didn't get it, I was kind of already out there in California. I didn't have a job anymore.

So I just figured out what that I thought it would be really good to learn more from folks like that. And that might help me narrow down what I wanted to do. Wow, like still even just like the fact that you're like, Oh, wow, well, I didn't get this shadowing position, I guess I'll go home. You're like, No, I'm here now. So I might as well figure out what to do next. Like, that's like, I don't know if I could have done that in your position. Like, that's pretty, that's pretty cool. And I think it makes sense that you became an entrepreneur because it's like you had clearly some, some sort of like, you know, you were okay taking kind of some risks, but also just like trying new things and just kind of, I guess, not living your life within the kind of checklist that we all have, that we were kind

of told by your parents and even talk about that in your book. It's like, don't listen to your parents, because we all do. And then what's it? You know, does it really? I know so many people, myself included, and you know, God bless our parents. They're great. But they're maybe not the best career advisors for our lives, because things change. I'm curious, what did when you made that big decision? What did your family and friends think of it? Were they supportive or were they like, oh, I don't understand? Why would you leave such a great job? You have it all. Well, part of actually why, you know, I would come back on those Mondays to work and be like, no, I'm going to stick with the job was because I saw my parents most Sundays.

And so by Friday, I'd be fed up with the work. And then on Sunday, I would see them for dinner. And then we would sort of talk about it. And I'd be like, well, it's so stable. And it's so, you know, it's what everyone wanted and that sort of thing. And maybe it could be good. And at least that's how I remember it.

Maybe it wasn't like that. But maybe I just felt that way intrinsically somehow, even if that wasn't expressly said. And then I would go back and be like, yeah,-paid corporate job and flying to Silicon Valley with not much of a plan. But my parents were, I guess, understanding. I mean, they knew I was really unhappy and I think they were supportive of me trying something else I mean what I decided to do was do it before telling them basically yeah that's always a good idea actually that's what I did with my job I told my mom I quit I think after I quit it's always a good idea if you don't want to be talked out of something, do it anyway, and then tell people after the fact, you know, I think, I think you actually, you mentioned something so relevant is I think a lot of us, cause I really appreciate you talk

about in the book is, is the fact that most of us hate our jobs or day jobs. And I think a lot of it is because we just haven't found that thing or that, you know, few things that we really like to do. And part of it is just the system. Like, you know, you talk about how, you know, few things that we really like to do. And part of it is just the system. Like, you know, you talk about how, you know, when we're all younger, we do like kind of these career or job tests and it kind of spits out, oh, this is what you should do. And I remember getting something that was so bizarre. I'm like, I'm not, I don't want to be this. Like, how did it take all the information I input into this, you know, test? And this is what it spits out at me. And some people do kind of run with it, like, oh, I'm supposed to be a lawyer. So I guess I'll be a lawyer. And then they become

a lawyer. Like, I hate being a lawyer. I know so many people who actually spent tons of tons of money on law school or whatever it is and realize it's not for them. But I think because a lot of us have these kind of, you know, expectations from maybe family and friends, and we think that we're doing what we're supposed to do, but then also that we complain about the job, but then we kind of, you know, hear from our family and friends. Oh, but it seems like it's a good job. There's all these good points about it. And then they, you know, you talk yourself into staying. And that's why we ultimately, I think, stay at these jobs for longer than we really want to. I mean, I know so many people, and I'm sure you do too, that talk about, oh, I hate my job. And they're like, well, why don't you find something else? They're like,

yeah, well, the pay is good. It has a pension. And so they stick around. And it's like you kind of talk about in the book, which I think is like the overall message, which I really appreciate is life is too short to work a job that you hate. We all understand we have needs, need to make money, but there is more than that. And I really appreciate also you talking about thinking of your work as something bigger than yourself. Because I agree, like if you're just thinking about money, you're probably going to pick a job that maybe doesn't fulfill you. But think of it as more of a calling. And I thought that that really spoke to me personally, which is why I do what I do now compared to what I used to do. It's like, I wanted to find something that was bigger

than me and then also fulfilled this calling that I felt. And also ultimately I wanted to help people and I just needed to try to figure out a way how to do that. So I want to kind of jump in. One of the things I really liked that you kind of describe in the book is your guiding star for the best career. It's such a great way to kind of, I think, visualize how do you find out what you're meant to do or want to do, which is figure out something that you love to do, what you're good at, what will make you money and what the world needs. Do you want to kind of share how did you kind of organize that? Because I feel like that's something that you can cut out and put it on your, your wall to look at daily if you're in the kind of process of trying to figure out what do I want to do next? Yeah, definitely. It's a concept I first

learned about from a great book called The Startup of You by Reid Hoffman and Ben Kaznocha. And it's actually been since expanded on to the concept of, well, I'm not sure which one came first, but there's a related concept called ikigai, a Japanese term that's a similar, oh, wow, why hasn't anyone mentioned this before? You know, why don't we learn this in school? You learn so much about often how to get a job and not how to pick which one. And I think so much of what you said just now resonated with me because I think this process helps. For example, if you are thinking about becoming a lawyer, instead of just investing like three years of time and money into becoming a lawyer, and then afterwards on your first day realizing, oh shoot, I don't know if this is for me.

What about shadowing a lawyer beforehand or spending time like interning at a law office so you could have a much better idea of what actually goes on and and prototype it rather than investing all that time and money only to find out you dislike it I know like the the idea of shadowing is like oh yeah I mean that that makes sense but it's it's something that I would have never thought to do ever I would have never even just you saying that you were cold emailing people I'm like I would have never thought to do ever. I would have never, even just you saying that you were cold emailing people. I'm like, I would have never thought to do that. Or I would have been too afraid to, you know, encroach on someone's territory or like, you know, bug them or something like that. But those are some key things that we need to do in order to figure out,

you know, to do the research and to figure out what should I do. But it is kind of crazy that we jump into university or certain programs to, you know, enter a certain career without like shadowing, like literally even finding out what is the day to day of that I mean, I kind of fell into the whole idea of shadowing and cold emailing people because one of the first people I reached out to was a professor at Stanford named John Crumboldt, who teaches career or who taught career counselors how to do career counseling. And I said, Hey, John, I'm not sure what to do with my life. I have all these options I'm considering. What should I do? And he told me he'd actually had over 20 careers in his life, including postal worker, Stanford professor, all sorts of different things. And he recommended instead of pontificating about it

and thinking it over a lot to see if there was some ways that I could test it out in the smallest way possible and prototype it so that was how I started reaching out to people and arranging these shadow experiences. And that was sort of the kicking off point for the development of my process. That's awesome. I mean, actually, that that does bring to mind the one time I guess I did kind of shadow or at least test run a potential career was some my weird, you know, background is I went to film school, and I thought I was going to be a filmmaker. That's what I thought my passion was. I just like movies. I think that's what movies and storytelling, but I don't think I'm meant to be a filmmaker. But anyways, did a whole degree because I didn't do what you said and didn't,

you know, shadow anybody until I finished university. And then I actually shadowed my uncle who's works on sets, he's an assistant director. And it was one day of, you know, basically being a production assistant and getting to see what should be glamorous and pretty cool. And I absolutely hated every minute, minute of it. It was I was tired, I was cold, I didn't think it was actually exciting at all. There was all these things that I'm like, this is actually not for me. And because of that, I immediately decided, okay, I don't actually want a career in film, even though I finished my degree. But I know you mentioned this in the book, too. So many people feel like they have to continue

whatever path they're currently on. If they, you know, did like a four year degree or did a certain program, they're like, well, I've already spent all this time and money on this degree. So I bet I better continue. But like you say, it's no, no, no, you don't have to continue. It might actually be the most beneficial for you to stop and do something else because life is long. I think so many of us think that, oh, no, it's too late for me. But you might be like 30 saying that you're like too late. You've got like 35 more years of working years if you want to. Yeah, I mean, when I was, I was thinking that way, too, for sure. But I came across a couple principles, which made me realize that I was thinking about it in a way that I felt like was incorrect. The first is the sunk cost fallacy.

Those that went to business school may have heard of this or others too, where it basically says like, no matter how much time or money you've spent into something, if it's not working for you today, then don't use that as a justification to keep doing it.

Because like you say, if right now you know you're unhappy but you have 30 years left in your career well just because you went to school for something for four years or were in a certain career for however long doesn't mean that you should stay in that and be unhappy for the rest of your life as like a way to justify those couple years. I remember I was unhappy and I was trying to figure out, oh, is this like the norm? I guess it is. So should I just accept it? Should I just stick with it? Something that helped me was reading the book called The Monk and the Riddle. And there was a really great passage in there, which I'll just paraphrase. It said, people often think about the risks of quitting a job or making a certain decision

from a financial lens. But what about the risks of doing something that you don't believe in or working with colleagues that you don't like, or even doing something that you actively disagree with. And there's those risks. And also, I think too, like the world, not to like get on my soapbox or anything, but the world has so many pressing problems like poverty, water, climate change, education, so many things. And in order to have any chance of solving those, I think we need each person to be doing a career that is the best, you know, that allows them to contribute their highest selves in terms of skills, abilities, and passion. Otherwise, we don't really have a hope of tackling those problems because how do we tackle those problems? Well, through work.

How does work get done? Well, it gets done through workers. And how do the workers do it? Well, having the skills, motivation and interest in it. And so I think if someone is interested in making a difference in the world and helping tackle some of the key problems out there, then it's of utmost importance to find a career that is a good fit for them. Yeah, like you don't really hear too many people making a breakthrough in whatever industry they're in. And they're like, Oh, but I hate my job. I just like had a breakthrough. Like, that doesn't happen. People are like super involved and passionate about what they're doing. And that's when like some really exciting innovations come to light. But yeah, like you said, people really focus on the financial risks.

And believe me, I mean, I, you know, battled with that before quitting my job, I was worried about what if I don't make any money? What if I do this? And also then the, you know, outside, you know, the people looking at you and be like, What are you doing? You're crazy for quitting the stable job and the benefits you get and all this kind of stuff. But like you also say, there's a ton of other risks that I think we forget about, like, and this was in your book, the risk of working a job you hate, there's health problems, there's mental health problems. I mean, all the things that you kind of shared in your book, I'm like, oh my gosh, this literally was me right before I quit my job. I like you, I hated my job. Near the end,

like I liked it for a bit. And then it just stopped serving me. And it wasn't a fun place to be. But I started kind of having some health issues. And definitely some mental health, you know, issues that I was not dealing with, that I didn't really, you know, but you like you kind of mentioned, you start kind of thinking like everyone else, I think this is just how it is. I think I just need to stop complaining and buck up. This is life. This is what adulting is supposed to be. It's not all fun and you know, sunshine and rainbows. But living your life and dreading going into work every day. That's not that's not living to me. Like there is definitely a better path. It's not an easy path. And you kind of talk about this in the book. It's not for the faint of heart. It is, it is a hard thing to accept

that maybe what you're doing right now isn't working and do something else. Like it's scary. But when you're on the other side of it, you can look back, you're like, Oh, I'm so glad I did that. Like, that's my experience anyway. Yeah, I really resonate with a lot that you said. And I'm sorry to hear you had that experience. I had a lot of issues as well, like mental health, you know, get it. I was coming home from work and like falling asleep at like 6pm, which obviously isn't good, isn't good isn't good and also I was developing weird health issues too like I started getting an eye twitch and that went away as soon as I quit my job oh my god a lot lots of different random things like that and yeah those things aren't good. So it's really good to be able to find something that you like so that you can ideally avoid those things. From the director of The Greatest Showman comes the most original musical ever.

I want to prove I can make it. Prove to who? Everyone. So the story starts. Better Man, now playing in select theaters so let's kind of talk about yeah some of the kind of more actionable things when you're at the point where um you're like all right i'm ready to make that big change in my life i'm okay doing that it's a bit scary but i know it'll be worth it in the end i think then people get get stumped. Okay, what do I do? Like,

what does that actually mean? Especially, you know, like we weren't taught this in school. We don't, this is all kind of new information. It is kind of scary, but you do, I mean, that's kind of the point of the book as well as really breaking down the strategy to figure it out. And there's a lot of different steps, which I think are very, very helpful, but obviously includes researching and, you know, shadowing people and testing things out, narrowing things down. And then of course, using, you know, your specific process that you've developed, which I found, I mean, again, it's one of those things where it's like, man, do I wish I had something like that earlier in life? I mean, for me, it was just,

you know, I kind of fell into personal finance as it was like a hobby that I did on the side for like five years. And then it kind of became obvious, hey, why aren't you doing the thing that you are doing on top of your day job as your real job that literally never crossed my mind until I wanted to quit my job. It's like, duh, no brainer. But I think a lot of people get stumped. So what would you say to someone who's like, I'm ready to take action, but I I'm like, almost, you know, that analysis paralysis, you're like, I'm almost so anxious about even getting started or nervous, I'll make a misstep. I don't know where to start. Yeah, it's a really good question. And I think you, you can start doing it on the side, like you can choose, you don't have to

necessarily quit your job to figure it out. You can start looking on the side of your current job. And I would say figuring out a process for yourself so that you know what you're going to do or like what process you're going to follow is really key. I'll give a brief overview of the process I recommend in the book, which obviously you can learn more about through the book. This is what worked for me and has worked for others that I've heard from. So my first step was getting to know myself a bit more because I realized kind of like a design process. The first step is getting to know the user more and then designing for the user. And I might think, or someone might think, oh, you already know yourself, been living with yourself for so long, but have you identified things like your core values or your purpose, mission? It's totally okay if you haven't, but I find it can be helpful

to deeply get to know yourself better before choosing a career because then you have a better idea of what you're looking for. What we're trying to avoid is the spray and pray approach where you're just like randomly applying for any job that'll take you. If you get to know yourself better and really hone in on what you want, that can help you find jobs that would be a better fit and take a much more targeted approach with a higher likelihood of success. So the first step is to get to know yourself. And then after that, it's to identify your options. So brainstorm any different options you've been considering with respect to careers. No need to cross anything out at this point. And then to narrow them down as the next step based on some of the steps you did during get to know yourself and some criteria that you set out. So do the first cut of narrowing down, okay, what are my career options I'm considering? And they can be very broad at that point. Like mine were join a nonprofit, start a nonprofit,

join or start a startup, become a venture capitalist, or become an author. So as you can see, those were quite broad, didn't even identify the roles within them. And then after that, you can see, those were quite broad, didn't even identify the roles within them. And then after that, you can identify ways to prototype them. And there's kind of a range of what I call minimum viable commitments, which are the smallest ways possible to try out a chosen career. So that ranges from things with low commitment, like

reading an article, to things with higher commitment, like shadowing or interning. And so you can start off small with some of those lower commitment steps, see if it narrows down any of the options or makes you want to eliminate them. And then once you've narrowed down your options, continue to deepen with higher level commitment experiences until you get to your top, let's say, three choices of careers. And then it's all about making yourself the best fit for that career or for those careers that you're considering. And in most cases, that doesn't necessarily involve needing to go to school for it. There's some careers that do require that, like doctor or lawyer, although funny story, in a lot of places, you don't need to go to law school

to become a lawyer. Anyway, so you make yourself the best candidate through self-learning, creating a portfolio, depending on the needs of the job, and then put together really amazing applications that pull out all the stops and involve extra things that you've added on to them, like videos of yourself or that sort of thing to stand out from the pile and then get your dream career and then rinse and repeat if you when and if you want to make a change yeah i was going to ask you about that because it's yeah i think a lot of people have this idea that especially when we use the word you know you're calling that there's the one thing just like there's like one soulmate, which is to me, like I used to believe in that. I'm like, oh, soulmate, how nice does that sound? As if there's one person in this entire world that's meant for me. And if that person dies, then I'm just, you know, supposed to be alone for the rest of my life. Of course, it's not gonna be like one job that's perfect for you. There may be one

perfect for you for right now. And then maybe down the road, another job and another job, which is, I think, for me, way more exciting to be chasing this unicorn perfect career. That sounds actually kind of scary because you're like, so now that now that you have it, like right now, currently love what I'm doing. But I'm like, I don't like the idea that this is what I have to do for the rest of my life because this is my quote unquote calling. So you kind of say it's okay to reassess basically at a regular basis to be like, are we still happy? If not, maybe go through the process again and see if it's time to switch careers. Yeah, exactly. Because this concept of one job for one lifetime was certainly a lot more prevalent a long time ago. It was also when job span or lifespans rather were shorter.

And, you know, it was more like factory work and traditional sort of work. But these days, people change jobs all the time. And it's so common. So it's, that's why the title is how to figure out what to do with your life next, because how to figure out what to do with your life is a really broad sweeping statement. Cause if we figure out something today, it doesn't mean that that's what you'll want to do in three years. And that's okay. And I agree with what you said about it doesn't have to be like one perfect thing or one perfect person. I see it as like a multiverse or choose your own adventure where there's all these different options and choosing one might ladder

you up or cause you to be able to leapfrog to another option that maybe you never even had or knew about before taking the that initial step totally what would you say because i know lots of people are concerned about the idea of just having a very crazy looking resume like if like if you are like you know as millennials we're always uh kind of uh i guess condemned a little bit for being job hoppers, quote unquote. But I think a lot of us, you know, we were told, like, make sure to stick it there. I remember when you put this in your book, stick at your job for at least two years. Otherwise, it looks like you're flighty and not, you know, reliable.

So what would you say if, you know, is there something that you can do to make sure your resume doesn't look like you're always just like changing your mind every few years? It's a great question as an entrepreneur I feel like it's been less of a thing for me because even within my business I can sort of change my role like there's a lot of things I can adapt and change and it still, still shows up as like the one company, um, for people, I guess that's why it's so important to, for people seeking jobs, I think that's why it's so important to like figure out, okay, this seems like it could be a really good fit for me. Like, of course you can't figure that out 100% but if you do the work I think it gives you a much higher likelihood of knowing that or not and then being able to go into it and if you're if you have a history of hopping and want

to change that and seeing if you can stay in it and pursue or try other things on the side to help you get it right the next time. Um, I will say that like, cause I review resumes and hire people myself. If I see someone who has, you know, they've, they haven't stayed in any job longer than eight months. That is a red flag for me. But there's other people where that's not a red flag. And also with respect to changing industries or careers, I've seen resumes and have no issue with resumes where they've completely changed directions, but at least there was like a level of like time level commitment to the new direction versus hopping around. And there's different ways to position it. Like maybe you leave something off your resume,

or maybe things become like a bundle of things within a category or something like that. There's different ways to go around it. But I would say finding a way to strike a balance between, you know, you don't want to be hopping all the time, but also you don't want to be dissatisfied. So figuring out how you can squeeze everything you can out of a current opportunity and making it your own for a certain length of time if you are worried about the risks of hopping. And I'd say there might also, like on the other side of it, I was always told it's basically always good to stay at your job for as long as you can. It looks like you're a loyal employee, but I guess there could be, I don't know, a red flag if someone has been at their job, like they only have one job on their resume, but they've been there for 10 years. Cause I feel like lots of employers are interested in people with, you know, lots of different experiences and skillsets from different companies.

Yeah, I think so too. Like if you're, if you're staying in one job for life, I mean, that that shouldn't be an issue. But if you are wanting to move and you don't advance or change around that, that could potentially become an issue. So I'm curious because, you know, you've gone through such an interesting journey and now you know so much. And now you talk about, you know, how to make these big career and life changes. Is there anything that you wish you knew when you were, say, in university and kind of making plans for what you thought your kind of adult years would be? Is there anything that you wish you knew or wish you could tell yourself? I wish I could tell myself to put more effort into finding a career that I love

to start off. I was all about security. And how I ended up in that corporate job was during an internship I did with them. I asked them if they could make me a full-time offer for after university. And they did, which was very nice of them. And then I thought, oh, okay, now that whole thing is solved. That whole part of my life is solved. I don't need to think about it more. It's all good. I watched my classmates, you know, laboring over interviews and trying to figure it out for a year or two after that. And I guess looking back,

I would have thought, okay, maybe spending more time, not just aiming for security and stuff. Yeah, I hear you. That's definitely something if I can go back in time, I would probably be to do all of the steps that you kind of share in your book and actually really taking a think about why do you think that you should be in film and then, you know, just deciding that no, I actually don't want to work in film. If only I could. I mean, you know, I don't regret, you know, I always tell people like I don't regret the past because you learn you learn from those experiences and mistakes. But I think it's it's definitely good if you can avoid some of those expensive and lengthy mistakes years and years I wish I you know I'm 35 now I'm like I wonder where I'd be if I would have made a few

different choices in my 20s but it is what it is at least you know now I can talk to people like you on my own podcast about these things and share it with other people so they hopefully don't make the same mistakes that I did in my career in my life um now before I you go, I know you of course have your book, but you also have a course and some free opt-ins on your website. Do you want to kind of share a little bit more in case someone wants to kind of check you out and see what else you've got to provide some helpful guidance? Yeah, I have the book. So how to figure out what to do with your life next, which is available through local bookstores as well as online through Amazon and other providers, Barnes and Noble and such. And also feel free to check out my course, Career Design Academy, which is through my website, Jennifer Turlick, that's

T-U-R-L-I-U-K dot com, where I also have some free guides to help you figure out your next career step. Right on. I think that will be very helpful, especially very timely. I feel like this episode is because so many people I know, as we kind of enter the fall and the winter, I mean, people are really thinking about what am I doing? Especially the pandemic. I've had so many conversations with people being like, what am I doing with my life? And, and this is a great time to be like, well, if you have those thoughts, maybe it's time to do something different, because what's working right now is maybe not working anymore. So I appreciate you taking the time to be on this podcast. It was a pleasure having you on really appreciate you having this book, which now I can recommend to people that need some specific

actual advice on what to do if they do want to do something different with their career. So thank you so much for coming on, Jennifer. It was so great chatting with you. You too. Thanks so much for having me. And that was episode 295 of the More Money Podcast with my special guest, Jennifer Turley. You can find more information about her course, some free opt-ins, and of course, her book, which is called How to Figure Out What to Do with Your Life Next at her website, jenniferterliuk.com. That is j-e-n-n-i-f-e-r-t-u-r-l-i-u-k.com. Just go to the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 295 to find the links to all the things that I'm

mentioning right now. And I also mentioned that I'm giving away a copy of her book. So go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contests, and you can enter to win a copy of her book. Like always, I'm going to have so many more amazing authors on the show. Whenever I do, I give away a copy of their book, and it will always be at jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. But one great way to kind of stay in touch with me and all the happenings that's going on is if you just sign up to my email, it's jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe. That is where I let you know whenever there's a new giveaway or webinar or speaking thing or event or anything cool and exciting I've got to share. You know, I'll let you know if you're

on my email. So just a few things I want to share before I let you go. First and foremost, make sure to follow me on YouTube. I finally cracked over the summer at 10,000 subscribers. And that was pretty exciting. But this is something that I've been focusing a lot more love the podcast will always have the podcast for as long as you know, you want to listen to it. Quite honestly, I'm very excited to eventually hit like 10 years of podcasting. I'm over six years. So I mean, we're not that far away, which is pretty cool. But really also want to have another outlet for for kind of a different medium and the YouTube channel. It's not interviews like the podcast, which I love. It is something different is me talking to you directly sharing some of my best, you know, financial tips and guidance and information. So you can find that

at Jessica Morehouse.com slash YouTube, or just go to YouTube, you know, Google Jessica Morehouse, you'll find me there. You can also find me on Instagram where I have been playing around with reels, which is kind of, you know, that's totally my style. I was never good at taking photos. I still don't know what I'm doing with that. But reels that makes that makes sense to me. It's like video. And that's that's I can do that. I can jive with that. So you can follow me at on Instagram at Jessica I Morehouse. And you know, follow me and see all the ridiculous reels that I've been doing because I think I'm funny. I don't know if I am, but we're just trying out. We're just seeing what's going on. And lastly, just to remind you, I do have my wealth building blueprint for Canadians course. So if you're

interested in learning investing for Canadians in a passive way, like how to use a robo advisor or how to build your own DIY ETF portfolio, how to understand all the jargon that sometimes we talk about on this podcast. This is the course for you. You can learn more and apply and read testimonials and see what the course outline is at jessicamorehouse.com slash WBB or just go to the show notes for this episode or even on my homepage, jessicamorehouse.com. Just the show notes for this episode is jessicamorehouse.com slash 295. If you want to go to the show notes of any episode ever, you can either just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast or jessicamorehouse.com slash the number of that episode. Oh my gosh, I feel like I was talking a million miles per hour. I'm sorry. That's just I'm just excited. I'm just excited, guys. So anyways, that is it for me. So

anyways, thanks again for listening and a big shout out to my podcast editor Matt Rideout. I will see you back here next Wednesday with a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.