More Money Podcast - 298 How to Talk to Your Kids About Money - Robin Taub, CPA and Author of The Wisest Investment

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

This week I have a returning guest on the podcast! I’m joined for a third time by Robin Taub who's here to share everything about her new book The Wisest Investment, an update to her bestselling book, A Parent’s Guide to Raising Money-Smart Kids. I was so happy to have Robin back on the show to share how her book aims to help parents and kids navigate the world since the pandemic hit. Robin is a Chartered Professional Accountant by trade, who then transitioned into real estate then derivative marketing at Citibank Canada. Robin is now a professional speaker and author, whose new book The Wisest Investment is for parents who are strapped for time but want to teach their kids to become responsible and money-savvy adults.  In this episode, we chat about everything from what age should we start getting kids interested in personal finance to where the best information for kids to learn is, and spoiler alert it's probably not TikTok. Since the world has changed dramatically in the past 18 months so has how we’re handling our money, and how we should be teaching our kids about it. Robin is a big proponent of looking for teachable moments in our everyday lives and that learning with your child is one of the best ways to get them engaged and interested in personal finance.  For full episode show notes visit https://jessicamoorhouse.com/298 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is episode 298, which means we are two episodes away from hitting the big 300. I still don't know what I'm going to do to celebrate, but I'm going to do something. I'm going to do something special. I don't know what it is. And I mean, it's definitely going to include cake because whenever there's an opportunity for me to celebrate something with cake, I'm in because I love cake. Who doesn't? I mean, it's definitely going to include cake because whenever there's an opportunity for me to celebrate something with cake, I'm in because I love cake. Who doesn't? I mean, who doesn't like cake?

Anyways, enough about cake. That is nothing. Now that's all I can think about. But for this episode, I have a repeat guest. And if you're a longtime listener, you will remember her from episode 32, which was released, gosh, so many years ago, January 13, 2016. My goodness. And the most recent episodes that she was on was episode 191 back in April of 2019. Wow. So for that kind of original episode, episode 32, she was on the show to talk about her best selling book, A Parent's Guide to Raising Money Smart Kids.

Well, she is back because she's reimagined the book because so much has changed since she originally released that book. I mean, currency has changed, just like the whole financial landscape has changed, which is why she is back to talk about her brand new book called The Wisest Investment. It is honestly, hands down, a book that I would recommend if you are thinking about having kids and want to kind of just understand like, how do I eventually talk to them about money? Or if you already have kids, or if you know, you know, you have family members or friends who have kids, and you know, it's kind of a struggle to figure out what do I talk to them about? You know, like, what do I talk about? You know, number one, number two, when at what point, you know, are they old enough? And what topics should I talk to them about at different ages, because you can't just talk to them about credit cards at, you know, age five, because that's stupid. It doesn't make sense. You know, you need to start with some of the basics. But as they get older, you're going to want to introduce more complex kind of aspects of

personal finance. And she really lays everything out in her book. So big, you know, fan of her book. It's a really great one. I'm definitely going to send a copy to my older sister who, you know, I have my two-year-old niece. And I mean, yes, she already has, you know, a little cash register and stuff like that. But I cannot wait for me to be able to talk to her about money. Like I'm such a nerd, but I cannot wait. But before I get to that interview with Robin, there's just a few words I want to share about today's podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the more money podcast is supported by Alterna Savings. If you've been listening to the podcast or following me on Instagram, then you already know I'm in full-on house hunting mode

ever since I sold my townhouse a few weeks ago. And this is not my first rodeo. It was actually just five years ago that I bought my first place, and wow, was there a lot to learn going in. Especially with mortgages, which can seem scary if you've been a long-time renter like I was. For instance, is it best to get a fixed, variable, or flexi-rate mortgage with interest rates being so low right now? Should you get a closed mortgage for the lower interest rate or an open mortgage for the prepayment flexibility? Are there any differences in the mortgage services provided by banks and credit unions, and which kind of lender might offer the best solutions for me? So many important questions for the biggest financial decision of your life. But hey, people buy homes every single day. So as intimidating as the process may seem,

I promise you it's not that bad. With that said, the best advice I could give would be to do your research to feel more knowledgeable and confident and to ask questions of the right people like a licensed mortgage professional who can provide you with personalized advice. To learn more about mortgage best practices and the tailored mortgage options credit unions provide, speak with an Alterna savings mortgage professional who will answer your questions transparently by visiting alterna.ca. Once again, that's alterna.ca. Welcome back to the show, Robin. I mean, I think this is number three. This is your third time. Third time's a charm. Back to the show, Robin. I mean, I think this is number three. This is your third time. Third time's a charm.

Third time's a charm. I know. Well, it made sense to have you back in the show because you have a brand new book. And I think it's very timely because, you know, the first time you were on the show, you had your book about, you know, raising money smart kids. This is a I'd say like a completely overhaul of that book and for kind of the modern age, like, and you talk about COVID and just what we've experienced in the past, oh gosh, few years now. And I mean, it's been a long time, right? And I think it's so important because, you know, we were chatting, you know, but offline, everything's kind of changed, right? Since this, you know, COVID happened, everything has changed. And a lot of people are left like with a lot of questions and needing guidance. And sometimes

some of the pre COVID books aren't really cutting it because they're not addressing kind of the new issues that have arisen. So I'm very excited to have you back in the show to talk about all of these exciting things. Thank you. I'm excited to be be here i always enjoy talking to you yay oh good so so so so tell me uh about this new book the wisest investment teaching your kids to be responsible independent and money smart for life i mean there's lots of things kind of uh from your previous book which i really appreciated because i like how you did in your previous book um which was really breaking down the different kind of life stages of kids. Because you can't just be like, here's how you talk to your kids. It's like, what do you mean by kids? Do you mean

toddlers, you know, young elementary school kids, high school, university, young adults after university? There's so many different phases and different ways you need to communicate and different things to communicate. And I think it's great because this is a book that people can grab and come back to you at those different spaces. Like, okay, my kids now in high school, what are things that I need to focus on now? So tell me a little bit about what kind of inspired you to do this new book. So as you said, at the beginning, there was two big things that I felt made the book in need of an update. And the first one was the transformation to a digital world. And, you know, as a society, we're moving away from cash. We're using it less and less often,

and we're using digital and mobile tools. And how does that change how we teach our kids about money? You know, the old standby was jars and cash. And so we'll get into that. So that was one thing. And technology has, you know, there's been so much innovation in the financial space. FinTech, right? And so how can we leverage those tools? What are some of the challenges, but also some of the really great things that have come out of this transformation? And then, as you know, that shift from cash to digital was really accelerated by the pandemic and overnight like so many places were not accepting cash they were only taking

debit credit and just as you said the way we are that way we live our lives how we were shopping for food how we were doing so many things spending money, going about our day-to-day was different because of the pandemic and social distancing. And I just felt like when I looked at the book and I was preparing for a speaking engagement, I was like, oh my God, a lot of the examples that were my go-tos for teaching kids don't feel right right now. They just seem out of step with the moment. So I was like, I really feel like this book needs to be updated. But I did really like the original structure of the first book, A Parent's Guide to Raising Money Smart Kids, which was an initial chapter for parents to help them get their own financial house in order.

But then a chapter, as you said, for each age group, and I broke it down into four. So young kids, preteens, teens, and young adults. And then within each of those chapters, I have sections on what I call the five pillars of money. So earn, save, spend, share, and invest. So under each of those five pillars, I have really specific topics and examples for that age group that are age appropriate, that are engaging, that are fun. Some of them are family activities or discussion. So it's a very practical resource. Like you said, I think a lot of parents are like, oh my God, I don't know where to start. I don't have the time. I don't have the knowledge. So this book really makes it accessible and brings it to

you in a way that, okay, you don't have to read this all at once. If you only have a young child, like five to eight, focus on that chapter. If you have a teen, and you haven't been talking to them about money, maybe just jump ahead. And even with older kids, teens and young adults, you can give them the book to read too. So it is a resource that I hope, you know, people will have and leave around on the kitchen table and refer to again and again. Well, yeah, there's, yeah, there's so many great things and new additions to this book that I really appreciate. But yeah, like you said, this and this is something I hear a lot from from people who, you know, I come into contact with, they're like, Oh, you know, I just discovered your podcast. And this is the first time I'm really learning about this stuff.

And they have kids and they of course, want their kids to not repeat their money mistakes. But they don't feel fully equipped in how do I teach something that I don't feel 100% confident or knowledgeable about? And I think that's a big barrier for parents. And also the kind of idea that, oh, it's too late. It's too late for me to learn this stuff because maybe of my age. And it's like, well, it doesn't matter how old you are. You can learn this at any age. But I think that's a big struggle for people. It's like, I know it's important to teach my kids this because, again, the number one thing I hear about this is like, I wish I learned this sooner. I wish I

learned this in school. I want something better for my kids. But how do I start for myself? So like you mentioned, kind of you start off, you do talk about, okay, parents, if you feel like you're in that kind of boat and you don't even know where to start teaching, well, let's take a look at your own financial house and see how can we kind of get these things in order and you do it in a really nice way. So I think the first kind of thing I'd want to know, and probably other parents are knowing, it's like, what is a good starting point? What are some things that we should look at in our own financial lives? So then we can be a good, you know, role model for our kids? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that is the philosophy is your kids are watching and listening and learning from you. So try to be a good financial role model. So you can lead by example. Now,

maybe that sounds like it's easier said than done, because parents are like, Oh, my God, I'm not good at money myself. I've made so many mistakes. I really, I don't have the knowledge or the time. So those are some of the common challenges that they face. But I think what I'm trying to encourage parents is that you and your kids can learn together. This is something that even if you feel you're not the best at this, I'm trying to help you guys do this together. So the first chapter lays out what I call these 11 healthy habits of financial management. And so I'm just like, you know, when I when I flip through the book quickly, like the first one is, you know, to know where you stand. If you don't know where you're starting from, how can you have a plan for where to go?

I'm sure you see that with your planning. Absolutely. You need to know where you're starting from, how can you have a plan for where to go? I'm sure you see that a lot with your planning clients. Absolutely. You need to know where you're starting from so you can make a plan. Absolutely. Yeah. Like if your head is in the sand and you just are ignoring this, it's just, it's kind of like a vicious cycle. So you really need to start by figuring out a good starting point with, and that means like figuring out your net worth and your cashflow. And then, you know, I have some other rules like live within your means. So spend less than you earn and make sure that you're saving by paying yourself first. You know, then I have other things like the difference between good debt and bad debt. Having a financial safety net.

So that means an emergency fund, which we all discovered. It's never been more important, right? That lesson really drove home. You know, some people are calling it a plan B fund or just having that buffer. And then insurance is also part of that safety net. Understanding the difference between needs and wants, teaching delayed gratification and setting financial goals, tracking your spending and budgeting, saving for your kids' education,

presenting a united front as a couple for your children. And then an 11th one, which I added in this COVID edition or post COVID is the importance of having a will and powers of attorney. Oh my gosh. Yes. Big wake up call for people. I've never talked to so many people about estate planning because I think it just wasn't, I mean, it's not a very exciting topic for most people. It's also kind of morbid to think about your, you know, dying and then leaving your family behind. But I mean, it is so important.

It's never been more important. I think the last year, year and a half is as taught us. So I think those are such important, uh, yeah, elements to really go through. But like you said, so these are things that you don't necessarily have to get all of your ducks in a row and then you can start talking to your kid. This might be an opportunity to talk to them while you're going through it. Actually, like that's even a better opportunity. It would have been, I think, so helpful. And you talk a lot about this in the book is showing, not telling. Like no one wants a lecture. But if you can show me what you're doing, I would have loved if my mom sat me down like, hey, do you want to see? It's honestly only in the past few years that i've been able to be like can you show me your budget can you show me i want to see some of these details

and i feel like she trusts me now with that because i have this money in case you come to do this for a living but it's like it would have been such a great opportunity for me to learn to see the tangible you know budget spreadsheet or just like even like how do you do this or you know do you have to do you have an estate plan all that stuff what a great way to instead of telling them showing them because then also when they're at that point to get insurance or to start about it they have a template or they can go to you to be like hey where did you go like they'll they'll have this visual memory of what that looks like and how to do it that's right So that is another one of my key philosophies in addition to trying to be good financial role model is to look for these teachable moments.

And it's an opportunity to build a money lesson into your daily lives. It deals with the challenge parents face of feeling if they don't have the time. But if you just look for these moments, they're going to crop up naturally because we're constantly doing things with money and doing things with our finance. So just like you said, whether it's just you're sitting down to look at your monthly budget and you bring your child over now, obviously this has to be at the right age where they're going to be able to take it in. You know, not your five-year-old or your, even your 12-year-old, probably like a teenager or an older teenager or young adult to share that kind of information. Or, you know, with my kids, one of the things we always do is the taxes. So I'm an accountant by

training. I think you knew that. So I actually don't mind doing my own taxes, like using TurboTax. So my kids would come over with their stuff and we would sit down together, like right here where I'm sitting now and go through their slips and go through their return and talk a little bit about the year and the, you know, like the money they made and that kind of thing. And I found that was a really good teachable moment because you could talk about, you know, RSPs, TFSAs, all the important things like they're in their twenties. So it's relevant for them, but there's so many and you just have to be a little bit creative, but your kids are curious too. So they're going to ask you, what are you doing? Or, you know, like the classic is like, you take your little kid

with you to the ATM or you did before COVID and, you know, you'd be punching the buttons and they just think money comes out of a hole in the wall. Every parent has told me their kids are just like, oh, we, you know, oh, you'd be like, oh, we can't buy that. I don't have money. And they'd be like, well, just go to the machine. Yeah. So having that conversation. Like, what is the machine? How does that work in there? Yeah, exactly. It's like not unlimited. But yeah, like you mentioned, like, there's so many teachable moments. And I think, you know, looking back my own childhood, and I even had a conversation recently with my younger sister about our both of our experiences with her mom, because she was like the main money manager and a lot of it was I don't think she even you know it's kind of unconscious it's just like she just

integrated us into some of her financial you know decisions like you know I know there's a part in your book you talk about like going to the grocery store that's a great you learn so much about money and buying and consumerism and how to find good deals and how to utilize, you know, our grocery budget, going to the grocery store, you know, every weekend with our mom because she had a list and we couldn't get things off the list. And yeah, she would tell us, hey, we need to get some milk. So make sure to go and get the right kind on all this kind of stuff. And that stuff stuck with me even now. And I know my husband's the same, how he grew up too. When we go to the grocery store, I mean, of course, our tastes have definitely changed. I feel like sometimes, especially because of COVID, it's like my one exciting thing to go to the grocery store, right? But it's still like, I'm still very aware of like, what's on sale? Can you use a coupon? Always making sure if there's like a grocery store kind of point system using that, like, these things were ingrained in me at such a young age just going to the grocery store with my mom so it didn't feel like she was teaching me something

but it's like an automatic habit I have now like and that saved me probably thousands of dollars over the years as I'm an adult right and that's a really good point is habits so habits are like well-traveled pathways that create grooves in the mind that rarely disappear. So it's really, it's so much easier if you can establish good habits early and try to rewire bad habits later on. So, you know, these things like your mom bringing you to the grocery store and talking to you about, you know, the list and comparison shopping. And also like when you're paying at the end, like a little kid may not really understand debit or about, you know, the list and comparison shopping. And also, like, when you're paying at the end. Like, a little kid may not really understand debit or credit.

You know, or if you're paying with cash anymore. Like, getting the change and counting it. And all those little things are. And then, you know, it does become a habit to see this is done weekly. And it's planned. And we're not just kind of spontaneously pulling things off. We're, like, being deliberate and careful. And it's part. And we're not just kind of spontaneously pulling things off. We're like being deliberate and careful. And it's part of a bigger budget.

So there's so many ways to turn it into a little lesson. Totally. So now, since you kind of mentioned it, you know, we are moving further and further away from a cashless society. I'm very happy about that because, I mean, I was kind of cashless, you know, before COVID. So I'm like, nothing's really changed in my life. If anything, things have gotten a little bit easier going to the store because you can have a higher limit tapping now. Right. But I think maybe, you know, maybe some parents might find this is a bit more

difficult. It is easier to teach kids, especially younger kids, about money with the dollars and cents and the cash and stuff like that. I remember that's how I learned, you know, quarters and all that kind of stuff. With now a plastic card, how do you show this? Is it just about showing them a statement or a spreadsheet, like showing them a calculator? Like how do you show them the value of this piece of plastic compared to these, you know, coins and bills? Yeah, that is a very big challenge. And I think with young kids, so let's say starting around age five, you still want to start with cash. Yeah.

And especially Canadian cash is cool. It's fun. It's colorful. The bills are colorful and interesting. And the coins are also interesting. And there's little history lessons in there in addition to math, you know, counting and making change stuff. So I still think that's key because it's

tangible and tactile. And I think digital money or plastic or paying with your phone is a little more conceptual. You have to be, I think a preteen is capable of understanding that, but a little kid, it's a little much for that. So I would still say, you know, if you have cash around or just keep a little bit aside that you can use to show them and play counting games with. But once they're a little bit older, and let's say they have opened a youth account, which is an account for young savers, most likely they will get a debit card with that. And that's a really good time to explain how a debit card works, that the money's coming out of your account right away. And yes, like you said, you can sit them down in front of the computer and look at their transactions and explain it that way. But if they have a smartphone and they are using the online banking app

for the banks, and all the big banks in Canada have this, there's usually a built-in tracking tool. And I mean, that might be more suitable for a teenager. But first of all, they can at least look at the online banking app and see their balance and see the transactions. And if they want to take it to the next level, then if they want to use the tracking app, which tracks their spending by categories, that's where you can set alerts and notifications

to notify you anytime you've spent money from eligible accounts. So let's say your Canadian credit card, your checking, your main account, your checking account, let's call it that. You get these notifications, which will ping you on your phone or your watch. And that helps make that spending feel real again. Like the visceral feeling you get when you part with cash and you hand over cash to someone is a feeling, a real feeling of loss, which you kind of lose when you're tapping and using your phone. So those, those tools within your online banking app, I feel can help make that spending feel real again, because it's a reminder. Okay. Yeah, I really did spend that money. I I'm gonna, it's either coming out of my account now, or I'm going to see that. And I'm

gonna have to pay that in a few weeks on my credit card. Oh, it's even a good reminder for for parents, adults in general. It's like, for me, one of the best things that I did, because like you said, it's so we're so mindless when we're tapping or swiping. Like, honestly, I'm very guilty of that with the grocery store. I, you know, look at how much it costs, but then I immediately forget setting it up. So you get a text message or an email notification being like, FYI, you just spent this on your credit card or debit card. It's been so helpful to give me that moment to be like, remember, there's this much less in your account, or this is how much you're going to have to pay on your credit card. It takes two seconds

to set up and just an easy way for you to also just be more mindful of your spending. But one thing I want to add just because I don't have kids, but if I did, or when my niece is a bit older, and if you're Canadian listening to this, if you ever have an opportunity to go to Ottawa, there's some great places to go. And you mentioned them in your book, like the Royal Canadian Mint. I went there, I think a few years ago. It was so fun. I mean, I'm a nerd, so I'm like that, but it was so fun to see how the coins are made. What a great learning lesson. Then there's the Bank of Canada Museum. And that was also such a great museum for kids and adults like me. I learned quite a bit, actually.

I agree with you. History as well as financial stuff, right? So fascinating. Well, I remember we learned from the guide at the Bank of Canada Museum about one of the bills that was made but never got into circulation of prince oh gosh now i'm gonna i like how many times have i watched the clown do i forget no it was it was prince um the one who abdicated because he married oh uh king edward the fifth yeah yeah yeah they made his bill and they had it but they're like it never circulated or whatever i'm like how cool is that to see that you know it's pretty cool so i mean if anyone's listening and you're in the ottawa area or going there for vacation there's some like they're actually fun things and i think they're free or by donation or very

very cheap so and if your kids are not like i think it's also a way in if your kids are not seeming to be that interested in money. Like some kids by their personalities are just so into it. Yeah. Have a lot of questions or, you know, they're just precocious and they want to know. If your kid isn't as interested, it's a really good way in. And if you can't get to Ottawa, there's also the websites for those two, the Bank of Canada and the Mint, also have some tools and resources that are engaging. Totally.

And also you mentioned in your book uh some games like that's a great that was definitely how i learned a lot about money like the game uh life monopoly and monopoly like you mentioned it has in your book it has updated there is like i actually got the new one recently um it has like a little credit card and actually that it took me a little while to get used to the digital way of the game but then it actually does make it you do really learn like oh this is how this works and stuff like that. And you mentioned another game called Cashflow. So there's so many different games that have money in them, or even like one of the computer

games, because I am, again, a nerd that I play is The Sims. And it has to do with like, you do have to have a job and earn money and stuff like that and buy things and pay your bills and stuff like that so that's like there's so many ways to teach your kids through fun means instead of again just telling my yeah my daughter who's like 24 now in a cpa she just joked around that with one of my friends on the weekend that she learned everything about money from playing sim and roller coaster tycoon or something oh my gosh Oh my gosh, yes, I used to play that too. Remember? Yeah. Yeah.

Those games, like they are fun. I mean, anything that's engaging and that has a little bit of a financial component, it's so good. And I think life is a really good one because it really does try to stimulate some of the decisions that you have to make and some of the things that crop up that are unanticipated, you know,

like whether it's a repair or, you know, like on your house or your car or just these things, a pandemic, like, you know, just how important it is to make good decisions. No, absolutely. Now, I want to kind of touch on, there's a few other areas you talked about in your book, which I think are important to kind of talk about. One that you kind of talked about several times is the the idea of having an allowance. And I think it's great because it's like I never gotten allowances a kid and I don't think it was because my parents didn't want to they just didn't have the money. But I think it would have actually been a really good learning tool in that there's so many different ways to set it up. Like you mentioned,

like there's, there's, you can give them some chores chores or you can be like, I'm, you know, I would have hired, you know, this other person to do this job, but I'd rather maybe hire you a, this is a great way for you to actually get a skill. Maybe then you can offer those skills to the neighbors. Like if it's like mowing the lawn or shoveling snow or something like that. Um, but then it also gives them, I think what's so important and sometimes is forgotten is giving your kids a sense of purpose. And also just like, it feels good to earn money. You know what I mean? Like the best kind of thing I did when I was in high school was or even before that I babysat like it's such a good feeling and then teaching them about that really good feeling you get when you earn that money instead of, you know, just get just getting it. Yeah. And, you know, allowance

is always something that comes up and parents want to know, like how to do what to do. And what you said is key. First, every family has to assess what their means are. And if it, you know, if they can make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't make sense for their financial situation. And then let's say if it does, every family has to decide for themselves about this chore thing so some families really want their kids to earn their allowance and do it in exchange for chores other families feel like the chores should be done out of a sense of family responsibility and everyone pulling their weight and i think during covid especially that was true because we were all eating at home and

working at home and going to school at home. Yeah the chores were piling up yeah. Right so I think you know and and I think if families feel that way you know then then the allowance is more of a money management tool and but if they still want their children to you know get that feeling of what it takes to earn then then as you say they can do these additional chores that you would maybe have to pay someone to do because kids will think longer and harder about spending their own money especially if they've worked for it but even if it's if you've given it to them as an allowance and they have ownership over it responsibility for it they're going to be a lot more mindful of how they spend and what they do with it. And it's

not just spending, we're talking also sharing and investing. Then if you're just paying for things, if you're just like, you know, if you're out with them and they want something, you just pay for it. They have no idea what it costs, what it takes to save. They don't value it in the same way. So I think an allowance is a very important money management tool if you can afford to do it. And then once they get older, they can start working. And like you said, you can start with babysitting. That's such a classic. Yeah.

And then, you know, I've talked to parents whose kids referee sports that they were involved with maybe when they were younger, like hockey, soccer. Yeah. Camp counselor is another classic kid job that is often paid not well, but at least they're making some money. You know, shoveling snow and those kinds of things until they're like old enough to really get a part time job. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's so many great skills. And yeah, it really is up to to what makes sense for you and then really deciding and how but I think what I really learned from your book is really getting specific on okay you you know you also mentioned it's so important with you and you know uh your uh spouse or your partner or your co-parent um getting on the same page

united front and having that kind of guideline like okay if we're doing allowance why what for how much for how long what are the rules and guidelines? Because also kids do like, you know, rules and guidelines that, you know, they want to know what's going on. So you can, so they can have that kind of sense of you know, what, you know, whatever. No, you're right. They do need rules and guidelines and not, I mean, having raised two kids myself, you know, ourselves, we know that they need discipline. They need rules around like behavior and what time to come home at night, cell phone use and like everything, and money too, because,

you know, when they're younger, they just don't know you're teaching them with these rules and guidelines. As they get older, especially with something like an allowance, you know, you start to be back off a little bit, like as you do throughout adolescence, let them become more independent, and let them make mistakes so that they can learn from them. And that's why I really try to encourage parents to start early, because when they're younger, and they make a mistake, it's not the end of the world. It's like they wasted money on something like a toy. But as you get older, the stakes get higher, this, the mistakes can be more expensive and harder to dig out from and I'm sure you see that and again the bad habits and everything else compounds

so try to start early um so that and try not to bail them out when they do screw up or make a mistake and let them learn from their mistakes and then move on yeah no I actually appreciated that in your book is, I mean, of course, your natural inclination is to rescue them, right? Of course, we're like, Oh, my gosh, no, don't do that. But it's so true. As hard as it is, it is actually important. It's so important for them to make mistakes and fail, right? Some of the best letters lessons I learned was from failing and then learning about why did that happen? And then what could I have done differently? If my parents always came to the rescue,

then I may not have, you know, been as ambitious or, you know, just, you know, for example, like my parents always said, you know, if you ever do need to be bailed out or something like that, you can come to us for money. But then, you know, at the same time, I knew, well, I can't, you know, I also kind of knew our financial situation. I'm like, well, I never want to be that kind of burden if I make a really dumb money mistake, you know, like a bad investment or buying something that is outside of my affordability. And so for me, you know, I did make some mistakes for sure. But it was also I really appreciated that, even though my parents said that it was kind of always understood,

you should figure it out on your own. And that did make me, you know, kind of think about like, okay, I need some more money, because I'm not making enough of my day job. How do I make this work? And that's ultimately helped me start my blog. Like where we are now, 10 years later. So I know. And look at how well that turned out because it kind of came out of financial necessity. It did. Yeah. Yeah. And it is hard as a parent, like, you know, you do want, you want your kids to avoid the mistakes you've made or some of the difficult things that you've been through. And that's what we're trying to equip them with. And that's what I'm trying to do in the book. But inevitably, we all make mistakes, myself included. And, you know, what you have to do is try to learn from them, like, look at what you did

and see what you could have done differently and try to, you know, go forward in a different way. And like, you know, one story I share is, I think when my daughter got her first credit card, she didn't pay, I don't think she used a lot, but she had a credit card, she didn't pay. I don't think she used a lot, but she had a small balance. She didn't pay it on time. And she realized that and she felt really sick about it. But I said, you know, like even that was to me, sometimes I miss that by a day, like it's an oversight, but you just have to get on the phone and call and explain.

And as long as you don't make a habit of it they will reverse the interest so there's always an opportunity um to do better and and i remember my son also once threw out his his first credit card he threw in the garbage oh he used it to buy something and then actually threw it out with the when he was was opening the package. Oh no. Oh my God. Like not good. No, no. And he was far away when this happened and we had to cancel and he supposed to have this card for emergencies. Anyways. I don't, I think he was a little more careful. Yeah. He'll learn next time. Yeah. Make sure to put that card in your wallet. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, they're going to do things. We're all going to do things. So it's just, yeah. Yeah. But that's, that's also something that you talk about in the book that I

think, um, is, has changed a lot in the past couple of years because of social media is not just, uh, mistakes you can make, but you know, there's fraud, cybersecurity. It's not just about, oh, what if someone, you know, gets a hold of my credit card number and steals it it's i mean as you know personal example but also i've seen this with other people on instagram um fake accounts popping up pretending to be them and then asking for money and and you know defrauding people that happened to me someone pretend to be me there was nothing i could do to stop them i tried you know obviously contacting instagram to uh take them down but there were there was at

least one person who contacted me saying i thought it was you and i sent them and i sent the money and i'm like oh well that is obvious like i'm that's i feel awful but i i didn't do anything like it wasn't me someone impersonated you yeah someone yeah but this this is happening so much more uh often on you know platforms like t TikTok or Instagram or Twitter. And it's important to teach, you know, our kids now because these things didn't exist, you know, that long, you know, for very long, how these new kind of ways of defrauding you and, you know, fishing for your information exist and how you need to be really careful. Yeah, that's a really important money talk to have with your kids.

And that's actually another reason why I like those notifications on your phone or your watch, because if someone is spending money on your debit or credit card with fraudulently, you will get notified. Then you're like, wait, I didn't just do that or buy that. So that is one way to be on top of it. But yeah, there are so many sneaky, clever ways now that they can do that. So you really have to be very careful and skeptical and vigilant. Now, another kind of element that I find, you know, we talk a lot about the importance of being mindful with your spending and, you know, always paying yourself first and saving and all that stuff. The one element that I find, especially with adults now in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s,

is, you know, the one thing I never learned, like I was always good, like I've had so many conversations. This is my, you know, experience too. I was very good at saving and living within my means, but that's it. And then they never learned that other kind of element that's so important is the investing, the wealth building, how is so important now, especially as pensions are kind of unicorns. Not many of us get a group RRSP or a pension anymore. So we really need to do our due diligence and figure out how can we invest enough so we can retire one day or achieve some of our other kind of financial goals. And I mean, it's a hard, I mean, it's a big topic. And I think that's another struggle with parents. It's like,

I don't even know how to invest or do that. How do I teach my kids how to do that? I know, because investing is potentially a very vast, broad topic and can get fairly complex. It is, you know, I understand why parents find that difficult to teach, especially like you said, if they're not really don't have a good handle on themselves. So I feel like with kids, you kind of go in, like ease into it. So with young kids, in the book, I talk about like the classic lemonade stand. And I've seen a few in my neighborhood, by the way, like in the last, my husband saw one right behind his office. And then I was walking with my daughter and her puppy on the weekend. And we saw it wasn't even a lemonade stand. It was just a free lemonade, which is hilarious, because I feel like that just points

to the fact that kids just kind of, they're a little naive, they're a little confused. So just like, you know, starting with that, where it's like, you know, you're selling something for more than what you paid for it, and you're trying to make a profit. And then, you know, you can start with things like a high interest savings account, not that there's really such a thing as high interest, but in theory, or like a guaranteed investment certificate, like where you talk about, you know, if you lock it in for longer, you get more interest. Just talking about what interest is that you earn it as a saver and you pay it as a borrower. So just even understanding that is important for your kids. And then compound interest is so important for them to understand because they are young and they have time on their sides

and you want to take advantage of the power of compounding because it's so powerful it can lead to exponential growth and especially if it's in a tax deferred account like rsp or tfsa you know the growth can really be significant over time so know, just so building blocks is kind of the way I think about it. And by the time they're like emerging adults, they can understand a little more about like stocks and bonds. And I do get into that, as you saw in the book, like what they are. And I know you have a course where, you know, there's just so many ways to get like way more. Oh, there's so much information, which is why I totally understand it can be overwhelming. It's so important to not let it be too intimidating because the rewards are there.

And the sooner and earlier you start, like invest early and invest often. And, you know, if you're lucky enough to work somewhere where they do match, don't leave that money on the table. Like look into what your benefits are at work and see if there's an opportunity to be accelerating your savings. And do whatever you can to educate yourself, whether it's podcasts like yours, courses like yours, books, like there is so much good information out there. And compared to like a decade ago, when I tried to learn this stuff myself in my 20s, it's so great to see how much information and better information is out there now. But like you said, I think one of the best things you can do to get your kids excited about the idea of investing is showing them a simple compound interest calculator to be like, well, if you put this away into this, you know, diversified portfolio, after 30 years,

you'll have a million dollars. And just like seeing that number, it's like, what? That can happen? It's like, yeah, that can happen if you invest. And this is the difference. If you were just to put that into savings with a very low interest rate, you'll see you will not get a million dollars. So just like starting little things like that, I feel like if someone showed me compound interest in high school, I would have been much more inclined to take some financial courses in high school. You know, they are learning it in school now. Oh, thank goodness. As you know, you said earlier at the beginning of the show that, you know, this is the kind of thing people are always like, this should be taught in school.

That is like the number one thing I hear from parents. So it is being taught in school now. And we actually created an infographic showing like all the different courses across Canada that financial literacy. And yeah, on your website or it's it will be on my website. I actually posted it on my LinkedIn. Oh, nice. It's like a LinkedIn post. If anyone wants to check that out, if they go to Robin Tobe on LinkedIn, you'll see it.

And what was cool is like there's courses across the country. Some are compulsory, some are elective. Some start, you know, a lot of them start even in the younger grades. And I was looking at Ontario especially because I live there. I know you do too. And they just updated the grade nine math curriculum to include more financial literacy, appreciation, depreciation,ation budgeting grade 10 has it but like even in the younger grades they're doing compound interest that's awesome so that

is so and they're they're making practical applications of it into like you know investing budgeting so it is getting taught into in school and in the curriculum, but parents still need to reinforce. Yeah. Because I mean, we don't always pay attention in class, do we? Exactly. So make sure that they got the compound interest. Like Albert Einstein called it the eighth wonder of the world for a good reason. So it's really, and it's the kind of thing like, you know, you can get as simple with it you could go really simple with like exchange traded funds like index funds or really much more sophisticated into option trading you know whatever sort of strikes your fancy and is in line with your goals and your risk tolerance and your time horizon so it's such a i find it fascinating i i really love investing

like when i started learning about it it was was really in university, but at the time, and then after I was just through books, but now it's like podcasts and all kinds of things. Well, that's the thing. It's like, you can, you know, find some actually pretty decent YouTube channels and podcasts that are focused on investing. And that's how you can kind of get hooked on some of these, or your kids get hooked on them or both of the, you know, or even i know lots of um depending on where you invest lots of discount brokerages have complete like resource libraries educational videos that you can you know then you know give access to to your kid be like hey here's

if you want to learn you know the more specifics of like etf investing yeah there's some videos that you might actually appreciate and you're right like my kids who are in their 20s really like youtube and learning that way yeah so you know, you know, I think for them, that would be their go to rather than a book. Yeah, exactly. I mean, for me, I would 100%. I mean, that's back in the day, there weren't really any YouTube channels talking about it. That's why I got into blogs, you know, that was a little bit easier to consume than a full book on investing. So, but now, yeah, like you said, there's so many great resources out there, but I guess the other element is also teaching them how to really discern what is something factual and educational and like correct information and

what is entertainment or, you know, you gotta, you gotta be able to kind of figure out what should I listen to what should I have my critical thinker hat on and see maybe this isn't quite right well that and that's becoming more of an issue because there's all these financial influencers now on TikTok and other platforms who may be engaging and able to get your attention but do they have the credibility do they have the credentials that someone like you has do they have the credibility? Do they have the credentials that someone like you has? Do they have the experience? Like you have to take that with a grain of salt.

And I get that, you know, maybe young people like to hear it from their peers. And but you really need to ask yourself, like, who is, you know, who's providing this information and really make do your homework and do due diligence because you don't want to take, that's such important advice and you don't want to just take it from anyone. No. I mean, especially like speaking of YouTube, there's a lot of great channels that I found, Oh wow, this is so helpful. And a lot of channels of just people talking about hot stocks and cryptocurrency or speculative investing or, you know, some things that are like, whoa, whoa,

it sounds it sounds like a you're giving advice, which you shouldn't be doing on YouTube, but also how you're presenting a certain strategy, you're making it sound like it's not as risky as it really is. So that's the other thing. I mean, I think kids are pretty smart these days, because they are on social media, they're not as naive as, you know, probably me back in the day, because internet was so new. But it's still something that you really need to, I think, have those open conversations with your kids. If they're trying to be like, hey, there's this YouTuber or TikToker that I really like having those conversations, be like, oh, can I take a look? And then maybe even going through some of those to be like, oh, just so you know, that's actually

incorrect or they didn't talk about this, which is very important to know or something like that. Yeah, because I think during the pandemic, people have the time and in some ways the funds to become retail investors and like all these Reddit meme stocks. Yeah. And I know in the US, like I think even if you're under 18, you can have your own maybe Robin Hood or other brokerage account. I think your parent, it's not in Canada in the same way, but I know in the U S like everything is so kind of ahead of us and so crazy and profit driven. And I think you can get into like, talk about making mistakes, talking about big mistakes. That is really scary. So I think, yeah, try to stay on top of what your kids are doing in that realm. And, um, yeah,

yeah. It's like, there's lots of information, which is great now, but it's also harder and harder. Now you have to sift through the good and the bad, but that is just like a learning lesson for everybody, kid, adult, you have to, I mean, for me, I'm very, you know, it's very easy for me to do now that I have, you know, credentials and a formal background. But yeah, it's just I've seen an explosion of kind of finfluencers, as people call them online. And it's, it's, you know, some of them are okay. Some of them are great. And some of them like, ooh, this is something I would not recommend to somebody, you know, so you really have to be cautious. And just, you know, just like anything to be cautious and just you know just like anything online though don't always take anything you see online as factual or 100% correct right

yeah it's like the fraud thing too like I think in this day and age of of internet stuff you just have to be so skeptical yes and so careful because you know as you said before, with identity theft or fraud, it's so much work to try and deal with that if it happens. Try and mitigate. Oh, God. So better to avoid it in the first place if you can. Absolutely. And I feel like the last thing that I just want to mention as a reminder, this is a little bit older, maybe it's like six months old or something. But I remember on Netflix, there was, I think it was an explained series on money.

And, you know, kids love Netflix Netflix and it was actually really well done I have to look I have to check that out I forgot I think it was just called money maybe but it's on Netflix and I remember watching it yeah it was a series a good a few episodes maybe three or four episodes and they did kind of uh hone in on like you know credit and debt and, you know, investing, but also frauds and stuff like that. So, so I definitely try to look for that. I'm sure it's still on there. Yeah. I think if you tell stories and you use examples, it's always so much more interesting and you get people's attention. So yeah, I'm going to have to look into that. The other thing with investing too, is it has to, you know, you want to be meeting a goal so it has to be tied to

something that is important to you and meaningful and that's another thing I talk about in the book is your values yeah and how important that is as a parent you can you know for teaching your kids about money if you know what your values are like the things that are most important to you that you're willing to take a stand for then you can use those to guide and prioritize your financial decisions. And you can try to instill those values in your kids to help guide theirs. So that, you know, as a family, your kids know what's important. Yeah. I'd say, yeah, that is so important. Goals are important, but like the values aspect, I think that is like how you create that solid financial foundation and have set that, like you said, that something to always refer back

to when you're not sure, should I buy this or should I not? Should I trust this? Should I not? Should I put my money on this or not? Have that system, like I have that all the time. It's like, does this fit my value system? And this is a great thing that you can take into, do I want to take this job or not or work for this company or not? You always have to be like, well, does this company fit with my values? Like, sure, it maybe pays more than this other job. But, you know, maybe that shouldn't be the only reason, believe me, working for a couple of companies, like, I definitely just did it. So just the money. Yeah, no, that's such a good question to ask yourself is, is this in line with my value or when you have to make trade-offs, you know, like there's going to be always things that you

want and money's a finite resource. And often there's just not enough money to go around to everything you want to have or do. So how do you prioritize? You have to think about, you know, what is most important to me? Is it security? Is it adventure? Is it education? Just to name a few. So, you know, as you saw in the book, I have this exercise called the values validator to help you tease out what your top values are. And you can do that as parents and you can have your kids do the same.

Yeah. And you have so many great exercises in your book, which I appreciate. And lots of great information, of course, on your website and all your social. So before I let you go, where can people find more information about you or follow you if they want to? So the best place to go for the book is the wisestinvestment.com. So there's a special website just for the book, the wisestinvestment.com. And there's links to purchase it on Amazon. And there's also this, there's another exercise called the role model self-assessment. So we were talking about that early, the importance of being a good financial role model. So if you go to that website, the wisestinvestment.com, you can get

that role model self-assessment. You can also look at sections of the book for free. There's free excerpt and information about speaking and that kind of thing. And then I have another website, which is robintaube.com. So that's R-O-B-I-N-T-A-U-B.com. And, you know, you can find out about the book there, but also more information about my speaking. And there's the values validated on that website. So if you go there, you can get the values validator for free. And again, put it up on the fridge, let your kids do it, you know, talk about it, go back to it. Yeah. But yeah, like I think the the overall message that I think people will take away from this, and I hope they do is the best thing you can do to set your kids up for financial success is to have open dialogue about money. I'd say that's definitely something

we're getting better at. And especially this is, you know, big inspiration for me starting the podcast, but we need to do away with this idea that it's inappropriate or rude to talk about money. The best thing you can do to set your kids up for financial success is to talk about money. Exactly. And if, you know, I can see why parents get uncomfortable with that. Sometimes they're afraid they're going to get, get asked these awkward questions, like how much money do you make? Or, you know, how much is our mortgage or are we poor or rich but you have to try to be honest with them and you don't always have to get into numbers if you're not comfortable with that but you can talk about those general principles we talked about at the beginning like these financial habits that are so important to establish early and keep talking about it's not a one-and-done conversation it's

no lifelong journey just like you're not done raising your kids after 18 you know it's a life it's all part of that journey exactly well thank you so much for coming back on the show for a third time Robin pleasure as always uh can't wait to you know eventually have you back in the future and you know uh see where life takes you i'm very excited to see uh what things you have in store next uh thanks again for being on the show. Thanks, Jessica. Thank you. Bye-bye. And that was episode 298 with Robin Tobe. Make sure to check her out at robintobe.com.

And you can also check out the website for the book, thewisestinvestment.com. We'll have everything linked in the show notes for this episode. So make sure to go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 298. You can find the show notes for any episode of the show you've ever listened to by just going to Jessica Morehouse.com slash whatever the number of that episode is. Or you can go to Jessica Morehouse.com slash podcast. Every single episode is listed there. You could also follow her on Twitter and Instagram very easily at at Robin Tobe. Very easy. Now I've got a few things to share with you. So stick around. I just want to share a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the

More Money Podcast is supported by Alterna Savings. As I continue my search for my next home, I've got both money and mortgages on my mind. Now that I'm looking to upgrade from a townhouse to a house, a much bigger financial investment, I've got so many things to think about. For instance, should I get a 25-year or a 30-year amortization for my next mortgage? On the one hand, I like the idea of becoming mortgage-free five years sooner. But a 30-year mortgage can also offer some breathing room in terms of monthly cash flow. What are my expected closing costs? Since we were considered first-time homebuyers for our current place, our land transfer taxes were waived.

But that's no longer the case for buying our second home. So how much should we set aside for things like land transfer taxes, legal fees, realtor fees, title insurance, and more? With so many questions in the air, it can make house hunting just that much more stressful. Which is why if you're in the same boat or looking to buy in the near future, I highly recommend speaking to a mortgage professional who will get to know your family, your goals, your values, and design a mortgage solution that's right for you. And one place to start for some helpful checklists, frequently asked questions, and resources is Alterna Savings website. You can also reach out to one of their mortgage experts for specific help on your home buying journey. Alterna is committed to guiding you through the mortgage

process one-on-one with care and transparency because you deserve tailored support for the biggest transaction of your life. To learn more and start building a long-term partnership with an Alterna mortgage professional, visit alterna.ca. Once again, that's alterna.ca. So what do I have to update you on at the moment? Well, okay, some things that I want to remind you of because I did share them in the last episode, but in case you don't remember, number one, I actually made a update to my free resource library. So if you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash resources, or even at the my main page on my website, currently, if you go to jessicamorehouse.com, it'll be right there, you can sign up and get instant access to my free resource library where I have a bunch of spreadsheets and past

webinars actually are there. That's the only place you'll be able to ever find them. And a bunch of PDF kind of guides and checklists and a bunch of other free resources. And again, free, free, free, free. So you can check that out at jessicamorehouse.com slash resources. Like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, if you're ever looking for a book recommendation, well, I've got a bunch on my recommendations page, Jessica Morehouse dot com slash recommendations. Besides that, too, I also have recommendations or a list of, you know, potential things that you may be interested in. You know, I have like lists of like different robo advisors. You're like, what is what are the different robo advisors in Canada? I've got a list of them or same with some discount brokerages, no fee banks, fee only

financial planners, I get that asked a lot. So I've got a bunch of them linked there. There's a bunch of stuff on that page. So make sure to check it out. JessicaMurrayHouse.com slash recommendations. And last but not least, to remind you, I have my wealth building blueprint for Canadians course, if you're interested in learning more and applying because you do actually have to you do you have to apply um not everyone gets in um because it's not the right fit for everybody uh go to jessicamorehouse.com slash wbb or check out the show notes for this episode it is linked there but if you're interested in learning how to invest as a Canadian because this is Canadian specific and you also want to practice passive investing so investing in a portfolio of index funds,

I show you how to do that. And I also show you how to build an investment plan, a retirement plan. I really walk you through everything I could possibly think of. And also what's great is I'm always updating the course and adding new lessons because I get some great feedback from students that I always want to make it the most comprehensive course as possible. And there's a, you know, private Facebook group, I do a bi weekly q&a, zoom call. So I'm in there, you have, you know, access to me, there's so much stuff in there. It's a bit wild. So check it out, Jessica Morehouse.com slash WBB. Check out to see if it is right for you. If you have any questions, happy to always answer over like Instagram, DM or email. But yeah, that's that's where the information is. That is really it. That's all I've got at the

moment. So if I have more exciting things to update you on, I will update you on those when I have that information. But right now, that's really it. So thank you so much for listening to this episode. And a big shout out to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. Oh, one last reminder, giving away her book, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contests. And you can enter to win a copy of her book and some other authors books. Just go to that page contests jessicamorehouse.com slash contest is where you can find that. Okay, that is it. That is it for real. Thanks so much for listening. I will see you back here next Wednesday for another episode of the More Money Podcast. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network.

Find out more at womeninmedia.network.