More Money Podcast - 305 Why We Should All Plan to Be Financially Single - Ardelle Harrison, Author of Bank on Yourself

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

Being single shouldn’t have to mean that you can’t achieve all your financial goals, like owning your own home or retiring early. That’s why this week I’m talking with Ardelle Harrison who wrote a book all about how to be financially independent and why we should plan to be, even if we’re not currently single. Ardelle’s book “Bank on Yourself: Why Every Woman Should Plan Financially To be Single, Even If She's Not” was spurred by her interest in personal finance and out of the necessity of wanting to travel, pay for post-secondary education, and purchase a property. Ardelle is now a retired teacher and has been able to achieve all of her financial goals without relying on a partner. Ardelle’s book explains the importance of knowing the ins and out of your finances, despite your marital status, and how to best plan for your financial future. Ardelle shares how she’s handled the critics in her life who thought her financial goals were unattainable and why you need to find a team, personal and professional that can help you with your goals. This is a great episode for anyone no matter your age or what your relationship status is to know that even if you’ve never done something doesn’t mean you can never do it. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/305 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is episode 305, and I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Hello. Welcome. My name is Jessica. Welcome to the show. I'm so thrilled to share this episode for so many reasons. First off, this is like the first in-person interview I've done with a guest on my show for years and years and years. So it sounds beautiful because it's nice and crisp and clear. But also, I feel like it does kind of, I don't know, just change the mood of the interview. Like we're just more comfortable. It feels like more like a sit down chat. I don't know. It's great. You're going to love it. But also, like the reason I want to

have my next guest, Ardell Harrison on the show is because she has a book and obviously a life experience to match about a topic that I get asked a lot. And sometimes I feel like I don't really have maybe all the answers. And I'm talking about single finances, how can you ensure that you manage your money appropriately, that you invest wisely, that you can become financially independent as a single person. But also, how can we even if you're in a partnership, how can we maybe rethink some of the traditional ways of thinking of money managing? I think a lot of us, you know, if we're a bit younger and a younger generation, like if you're in a Gen Z or Gen Y, like I am as a millennial, you know, I think we have kind of

developed new strategies, new ways of managing our money with our partner. Like for me, as I kind of mentioned in this episode, I for sure kind of think of our money as well, we've always kind of managed our money separate and together, we've always maintained some form of financial independence, which I think is healthy, because it's not really fun always having to answer to someone if you want to buy something. So we created a system that works for us. But it's just like talking about how can we develop different ways of thinking about money, talking about money, managing money, whether we're single or in a partnership. And I think you're gonna love this episode. So the name of her book is called Bank on Yourself, Why Every Woman Should Plan Financially to be Single, even if she's not, of course,

the same goes for men. It's not just for women. But you know, she obviously has, as a woman, a female perspective. But what's so great about Ardell is she draws a lot of what she writes about and shares in this episode from her personal experience. So a little bit about Ardell. So Ardell became more interested in personal finance out of necessity of wanting to travel. So far, she has been to over 35 countries. She also need to learn you know how to pay for post secondary education. She has two postgraduate degrees, plus a year of doctorate studies. And also she wanted to figure out how can she on her own purchase a property both for herself a principal property, but also for investment. So she also has some real estate

properties that she rents out. Actually, we talked a lot about that actually, before she left, because I was curious about all that. And it was interesting. Anyways, she wanted to figure out how can I do all this not only as someone who is single, but also, you know, not having to give up all the joys in life? Is there a way to balance these and still achieve these goals? And the answer, thank goodness, is yes. And so she is here on the show to talk about her financial journey and some great advice she has for other people who are, you know, maybe in the same situation. So before I get to that interview with Ardell, I just want to share a few words about this podcast episodes sponsor. This episode of the more money podcast is supported by harvest ETFs.

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you exposure to companies focused on space innovation, such as satellite owners and rocket launch technology companies. This is all to say that if you're looking for something outside of your regular index ETF, you've got options, a lot of them, and Harvest ETFs has a big selection to choose from. To learn more about Harvest ETFs, their ETF lineup, and even just to learn more about ETF investing in general, Harvest hosts their own Harvest Talks podcast. Visit harvestportfolios.com. Once again, that's harvestportfolios.com. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Ardell. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking very forward to chatting with you. Yay, perfect. And also, this is very special because you are in studio in my house recording

this and I have not done a recording live with someone. I mean, the last time was with my sister at the beginning of this show. So make sure to check that out with my sister, Sarah. But with a guest, an actual guest who was not blood related to me, it's been, I think, years. I mean, definitely since COVID has been like two years now. So I'm so excited to have you in person. This is exciting. And I feel even more honored with what you just said in the introduction. So thank you very much for inviting me in your studio. You're so welcome. So and also you're going to be one of the few people who've actually been in this house and we're moving. So you're like the last person to see it before we we get out of

here. But I'm so excited to have you here. Because when you know, when I, you know, saw that you had this book called Bank on Yourself, why every woman should plan financially to be single, even if she's not, that really hit home for me, because that is kind of my mindset. I mean, obviously, I'm married, I've got a partner, but I've always had this way of thinking about finances, like your title of the book describes, I always and maybe this is kind of a about finances, like your, your title of the book describes, I always, and maybe this is kind of a self-preservation or just a way to protect myself financially, but I always wanted to have a way that we manage our finances. So we're both okay. I just, I never felt super comfortable and I don't know where this comes from. Like it's, it's not like I have, well, maybe there are some evidences in my family extended family. Maybe actually, you know, going back.

But I always want to make sure that number one, money was never a source of contention or was never something that we would argue. And usually it's a power struggle. One person earns more. One person has the control. And, you know, my husband's always been very like, yeah, sure. Let's do whatever you want to do. Like, I'm cool. He was always very respectful of kind of my feelings. Cause I think us women have, we have a lot of a lot to lose. And I've just talked to so many women over these years, and I'm sure you have as well about how it is different, you know, just why women have to kind of think about their finances differently and why they

may need to have a different way of managing their finances instead of maybe the old traditional, once you, you know, move in with someone or get married, you should just, you know, co-mingle all of your finances. Maybe that doesn't make sense for everybody. Well, I like the direction that you're thinking in, thinking that everybody should be discussing this, whether you're like me and has been single and always single, whether you're a woman like you who is married, my writing partner was happily married and two children, or whether you're a woman like we interviewed for our book who is single again. So either through high divorce rates or unfortunately death or just disaster in life too.

And whether you're male or female, it is always good to think about how you discuss these topics with your spouse, significant other, and also how much you know on your own whether you're partnered or not. So very important facts that you already raised. And from doing the book and just from finding out what people thought and where they're at, these are topics that are easily discussed, or maybe even often discussed. And even single women didn't necessarily have everything as organized as they realized that they needed to have for their future. Why do you think that is? Before we hit the record button, we were kind of chatting about certain scenarios about that.

And I think one, and this is kind of classic. I've talked to a lot of women who have done this. A lot of women expect, and again, I think this is just like the societal norms. We think that we'll get our finances in order once we meet that partner and then we start a life together instead of just planning our lives as an individual and if we meet someone great if not we

should still have a plan why do you think a lot of people and this isn't just women but it is largely women let's be honest um kind of plan or or almost delaying planning their kind of financial future until they meet, you know, their future partner? Well, I, you know, this is going to be my opinion from the women that I spoke to, and also being a retired teacher and having, being exposed and spoke to younger women too, could be partly a generational thing. So when I look at my grandmother's generation or my mother's generation, I think that was the expectation, though my grandmother, I think, was just an excellent role model for being a resourceful person. I mean, eight boys on a farm, wouldn't you have to be resourceful

with everything? And then my mom was very knowledgeable and very organized. And I think that was just my mom being my mom. How much of that hurt my dad's ego? I'm not sure. But they certainly were an organized couple. So I had very good role models in previous generations. Looking at my generation, that and I'm in my 60s. So when I had some of my friends in focus groups who are around my age, some of them even openly admitted that when they were younger, they probably assumed or thought or hoped that they were going to get married, and maybe they will in the future too. But because of that, they held off on doing some things financially. So instead of creating your own happy ending, that also included not creating your own happy financial ending. And so then as time went on, some of them delayed and

waited until maybe they would, maybe they were older than they thought they would be when they first started to get their finances in order and also organized. When I look at younger women, and it was looking at my students who are younger, and wondering, male or female, because it didn't matter, how many more of them would remain single or be single again, like statistics are just showing us different historical demographics now. So I think it's a good idea, regardless of whatever your situation is, whatever new relationship you may be in, whether you're male or female, to also have those thought processes in order. Now, I'm going to turn the tables to in doing this and in talking to men, but I didn't interview men exclusively amongst men about when they get

together, what do they talk about when it comes to finances. But one man said, well, why do I need to be involved in the finances? My wife is a retired banker. Right? Yeah, there's still value in him knowing what's going on, and she wanted him to know what's going on, too. Because that's part of the conversation. You know, if you ever end up as an executor for somebody, you need to know all of the details that they don't need to share with others necessarily. But in talking to women, talking to women, and we all have our girlfriends, and we all have our fun girlfriends and our chats with girlfriends and that. And we talk about quite intimate things. But we'll keep those a secret. But we don't talk about finance. And what happened

is if women were talking to other women about finance, it was more about what they got on sale, what they're wearing. I love those conversations. And also, what do you talk about? Like, it's been a taboo subject. It's a private subject. I agree with that, too. Well, when I think of two people I've talked to over the years about finance and investing, and just fun talk about money and that one is a male and one is a female. And we go way back to our undergraduate, they're both happily married with children, they're probably, you know, I mean, I don't know their portfolios, they don't know mine, they don't need to. Those are the type of conversations and details that my banker, my financial planner, my support team would need need to know but that's nothing that i need to know when i'm

talking to someone about money right so it's one of the chapters in the book that we um that we addressed was how do you start the conversation right what i guess what also if you're you know you bring up a good point it's like i i think a lot of people are afraid of maybe starting a conversation about money with their you know close friends or even family because they think that that means that they do have to reveal all your numbers. Not necessarily. You don't have to. No one is asking you your net worth. And if you're not comfortable sharing that, you don't have to. I mean, I don't think I've ever shared my net worth with anyone besides my husband and maybe my close family members just because, you know, I'm in this business. So I like to talk about money. But

I think that's a big concern for people. It's like, but what do I talk about? Because I maybe don't want to share every little detail because it's personal. Right. And I would be uncomfortable if someone asked me. Yeah. Because I do, like I said, outside of your financial planner, et cetera, the type of conversations is just basically more about the planning, more about the support, more about the resources. You know, I've just learned so much

about resources just from doing research myself from reading books from having conversations. For example, the one friend I'm referring to his then girlfriend wife, said over the years, she has learned so much from us, just the two of us having interest in finance books and sharing that type of information too, and where to go for some resources and maybe who I have found helpful. I've certainly put word out about your podcast. I've been very interested in them and I was very impressed with them and who knows who else that's going to help along the way, too. So it's just finding out this information, as well as we may know some resources where some people need some support. This has been very challenging years for some people the last couple of years, and I think that there has been maybe a little more open conversations too. Yeah. And thank goodness for that. Because I mean, I've been doing this show for a while. And the message that I get from pretty much every, you know, expert that's been on the show is communication is so important. I think,

you know, like I kind of touched on some people may not know how to start that conversation, or what does communication mean? But I think like you said, well, if you need a starting point or you need some ideas, it could be asking, well, what do you do to maybe better manage the stress of, you know, financial planning? Or do you have any recommendations for a financial planner? Or what do you do in terms of investing? Or where do you bank? And just asking them their opinion, their experience, because I feel like once you kind of open that up, that is how you can kind of then take, you know, the information information that you need and then you can kind of apply it to your life and and that's and then you know that might also inspire you to then do your own research to see you know okay what what do I actually want to do you know I've got a bunch of like people have

opinions all day long and that's the other kind of difficult thing to sift um is what's fact what's knowledge and what is opinion, because not necessarily everything is something that you should take into, you know, someone's doing, for example, especially I see this with investing, if someone is investing in, you know, stocks, you're like, Oh, should I invest in what they're investing? Not necessarily, that might just be opinion, take that information, and then, you know, continue to do your research. Well, I think this last little while I'm going to laugh at myself. I said, I'm a good example of why I should not be doing my own investing. Because I think I would have just panicked and

sold everything and bought oil. Right? Wasn't that what I was hearing on the business reports and that. But then in asking my financial planner about that, well, there was a lot more behind that and what I'm invested in. Plus, you know, the age and stage I'm at now is different than the age and stage I was at when I first started investing. But it was taking those first steps too. And it's, you know, going back to the point about we would not have the conversation and start the conversation well how much do you make um because that that would be an appropriate route and also um but it's not what you make like there's people who make incredible amounts of money that probably would make me

salivate right but how much do they save yeah right and how are you able to save so much are they spending it on because again just because somebody makes money doesn't mean well they should be spending it yeah not everyone who makes a lot of money means that they're good at managing that money no you know and you know it's it's having those conversations i also i want to bring up the point um it's uncomfortable for me. I've never known how to word it, but I've learned to put it in the conversation when I'm interviewing financial planners, too, to get a feel how they manage their own money. Right, yeah. And, you know, just like my undergraduate being nutrition, well, not every dietitian

or nutritionist eats well. You want to walk the talk, and we all have, you know, different challenges at different times. And when I was running, I was I was trying to keep up just with the amount of calories I was burning and that too. So it's just the same thing if I equate it to also finance background. But sooner or later, if you're listening to the finance people you're working with, you get a good feel for what how they manage things. They don't have to be in the same situation as me. They don't have to be at the same age and stages life in life as I do. I actually wouldn't want them to be because I'm retired now. And then if they soon will retire,

I'll be back. Yeah, you'll need new financials. Right. You know, and I mean, certainly, you know, there's, there's the options. There's so many options now. I mean, with doing your own investments, and I've looked into that, and that suits some people and doesn't suit others. And so it's finding out the right information. But kind of going back to the start of our conversation, when we think generational, well, my parents, my grandparents, they would not have had all of the opportunities for lending money that we have. So when we look at the low interest rates now, I mean, some of the same messages that I'm scared may be out there for young couples or new,

or especially single people in that same message I heard over 30 years ago, you won't be able to do it. Uh huh. Like you can't afford it or? Yeah. People, I talk about this in the book, like people coming out and just saying that to me, well, you won't be able to afford to buy property in Toronto. Um, so, you know, at that point, when I think of my first mortgage, and I was thinking this, I went through mortgage broker, and I was able to secure eight and a quarter percent. That was amazing back at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, a few years before that, it was double digits. So I think each generation has its own challenges, like the younger generations. Well, you're much more entrepreneurial. When I started doing my own, what I call side gig,

it was long before side gigs were, were kind of the norm. And I was thinking out of the box, and I was in a profession I really liked. And so I just started to do more work to save more money for staying in Toronto to buy a condominium. Absolutely. Yeah, no, I that's, that's nice to hear. Cause I feel like, especially us millennials, we just feel like we've been through it all and it's exhausting because it does feel like we've just been told no you'll never achieve this you'll never you know because we've you know experienced the great recession and now this pandemic and um you know there's been you know years where i know so many people now in their 30s are like i finally just got my first like real stable full-time job because i've been working contracts

all these years so there's a lot of things that we have dealt with but on the upside there also is a lot of positives that I've been seeing. Like number one, more information, it's never been easier to learn this. So there is more access, thank goodness, especially just compared to, you know, 10 years ago. And also not just information in terms of access, but just like how to get you know, banking, you can do it online. Now you can do investing independently on your own online now. And these are huge opportunities because before there were so many barriers. And also, especially when it came to being a woman who wanted to improve their finances,

there were so many barriers. And now you can kind of bypass a lot of those because now you don't have to deal with someone in an office in a suit that may demean you and just talk down to you or ignore you. Now you can maybe bypass them and just open your own bank account and invest your own money, however the heck you want, which is, I think, a really good thing. I want to kind of get back to when we're talking about the idea of, you know, baking on yourself, really planning for your finances, whether you're single or just, you know, as if you in your mind, just kind of thinking more independently. You know, I, I have talked to so many women over the years who are honestly worried about their financial future, because they're like, I may not, I might be single forever. And you know, they're, they're fine with that personally. But financially, they're kind of worried about that,

because a lot of the information out there is like, Oh, yeah, well, you know, if you split your rent with your partner, or if you, you know, split your down payment or your mortgage, all the things, a lot of the information you find out there assumes that you have a partner. So it just seems so does that mean that I cannot achieve this? I can't retire early. I can't own a home. If I'm single. I did both. And I guess to that, yes. You know, I don't know this as well as a finance person would know this. But, of course, what gets me is, of course, you hear about spousal RSPs. And I would like to hear and vote for a politician that is going to start to support some of the benefits that single people could have too. You know, and when I was looking and at that point, I had, I had lived in several places with several different roommates, but now I was going to be on

my own and my realtor had put out to me, well, maybe I could get a second bedroom and I could rent it out. And I said, I would probably get an overnight job at a coffee shop before I would do that again. I think I had a total of 22 moves before I bought my place. Only my mom kept track of it. 20 of those were with roommates. 19 of them were excellent, excellent situations. I think I'll quit while I may. But now I joke, well, if I ever got married, I'd have to buy a duplex. You know, and he'd have to get his own. But it's not like a couple, it's not like they were looking at a place that's double the price of what I was looking at. And there is also just ways of doing this and sitting down with the right people. I think when I was interviewing people

and I started to meet with them too, it was the third realtor that I met with that I actually started working with and stayed with for over 20 years. So it started off, he was buying me my very first place and it was a small condo and I still call it my first love. And then, but then, then things

changed in the markets and things changed in my career. And, um, you know, then I mean, I, I made all different changes and then I bought investment properties and that I wouldn't have ever thought I would have done that. Um, just, I didn't think I could stomach it. Um, you know, but I mean, going through real estate just recently, I realized like, that's just some of the excitement of real estate. It doesn't matter if you're a couple or if you're, if you're alone. But the message was clear to me, but doing the numbers and meeting with the right people who did believe in you, because some realtors didn't think I could do it either. Yeah. I think that is such an important message is when you are looking to hire someone, whether

that's like an accountant or financial planner or realtor or anybody, you need to make sure that they are on your side. And I it's funny, I just posted something on Instagram about how I've had some bad experiences in the past with financial advisors that were, you know, clearly were not they were not on the same page, they were coming from a very different perspective. And I think you need someone who's going to champion you, but also listen. I think, especially as women, that is all we crave. It's like, can someone listen to actually what I am saying? Because then you can understand what I'm looking for. And yeah, we need to kind of do our due diligence and find the right people for us that have the same values, I think is really important. And yeah, we'll, you know, kind of, I think, give us a different answer than the lazy answer, in my opinion, which is no, sorry, you can't do it. Yeah, I find that it's good to have a team to talk to. But that can be a personal cheerleading team. And that also can be a professional

team too. And I've changed professionals over the years, just as I changed, just as they changed, just as just thinking, well, we're not working as well together as I had hoped, or I thought that we were going to work. So you've got that right. I also have talked to some people who they've worked with the same people for years and years and years, and it has worked too. So it's finding out that person that's going to help you the most. And you know, be that whatever route that that you go, but that was very important. And I think with that, with that in mind, when I go back over 30 years ago, I did not have a girlfriend that had bought property by herself yet. Yeah. But I do now. Yeah. And, you know, did I learn from my male friends?

Yes. So that meant I had to have a conversation with them as well, too. So sometimes, you know, I mean, I had to wait. I remember I thought I'd rather wait and stay in Toronto and get more money together and see what I decide to do. So it's just giving them not only hope, but also it is a possibility. You know, I feel awful that your generation is hearing no more than maybe other previous generations did. It really depends, I think, on who you're asking too.

Like since we've been kind of talking about like it's important to have the right people on your team or the right professionals or people in your personal life to, to believe in you and to encourage you. I've definitely been seeing, you know, kind of two things like we I feel like and this is maybe just my me projecting my personal experiences, but on in some areas, a lot of no's, but in some other areas, a lot of yeses. I feel like kind of the older generations, again, like the people that have maybe been in the financial industry for decades, don't necessarily understand that, you know, saying no to millennials, in my opinion, a dumb idea, because it's like, you know, you could have that person as your client for years and years and years. But I guess you just don't see the value right now. And so that's why I feel like we're getting a lot of no's. But then there's a lot of people who do get it, who do understand, oh, yes, I see that they have a different experience

and different background and different needs. And so there's a lot of like also motivation, empowerment. I see this a lot, especially over the past couple of years, just because of COVID we've all been at home and on social media, there's been an influx of, you know, financial educators and people, you know, trying to empower others, which I think is also really exciting. So again, there there's both sides. There's like, you know, but you have to recognize who you're with. Like we learn in the book it stated we learn from our negative role models as well as positive and so sometimes even you know someone of an older generation could be either or to someone now maybe they would like the younger generation to learn from their mistakes if they're willing

to admit whatever mistakes and if they use that powerful of a word too. So but also things change. And so I learned from younger generations, a lot about technology and a lot about what's out there and resources, etc. So it's got to have a two way conversation in that way. Yeah. And I guess too, that you could be looking at, I think the big plus with the younger generations, one of the many big pluses too, is the time that could be ahead of you. So that's very exciting where someone like who's retired already, they don't have the same amount of time that their children do maybe maybe, if they're going to delve into their savings, or they're going to take some risk, or they're going to do,

do make some choices with their money and that too. And yeah, it's, I mean, it's extremely rewarding. And it can be done. And the nice thing is, you get to decide to a lot of decisions just because you are on your own. So if I said, Well, no, I want to stay and work longer and harder and get more money to stay in Toronto, but I was with a partner who said, Well, I'm not willing to do that. I'm willing to move to the suburbs, or I'm willing to move to a smaller town and that there's a lot more energy and a lot more time that has to go into negotiating. When you're on your own. You can argue with yourself. I do that sometimes. But you know, as long as you do the research, and you know who you can go to, and who you want to get advice from, that's not always the people who give you advice. Because like you say, there's a lot of people who will freely give their opinion and their advice,

be it on on media, or be it in person. I'm curious with your experience, because you were able to achieve this on your own. And again, I think a lot of people are like, Oh, I just can't imagine how I could do it. What were some of the I guess, no's or, you know, people that didn't believe in you? What did you kind of hear from them? And then what did you do to basically say, well, I'll show you and like, you did make a huge achievement. I you know, sometimes even I think my for myself, like, I don't know if I could do this on my own. It is sometimes easier with a partner because there's two incomes. So how were you able to do this? Okay, so one example, and I think I wrote this in the book.

It was in the back of my mind when this came. The job, the full-time job I was at at the point, there were two women who would have been in positions equivalent to mine. And they both had husbands and the husbands worked as professionals. And one of them just came out one day and said, you won't be able to do this on your own. Oh, wow. And they figured out what I made,

and they figured out what they made as a couple. And I just kept quiet. But I think there was steam coming from my ears. So I think that motivated me. Because I remember turning my back and thinking, yes, I will. I have four other jobs you don't know. But and I know that that people are saying, wait, wait, Ardella, I'm not doing five jobs. Well, you know, I was doing my own business at the time. So I had clients and then I had a contract up at the university. Like these were all enjoyable things to me too. I was younger, I had energy,

more energy. I think I have energy now too. You know, and yes, I would say it doesn't matter what generation you are. Even my parents' generation worked hard for what they wanted. So I remember that just being blatant. The second thing is what people say non-verbally. Yeah. Okay. So rest in peace, my parents. When I told them I bought my first place, I think they went silent on the phone. I wasn't sure they were still standing.

I don't think they went silent on the phone. I wasn't sure they were still standing. You know, I don't think they believed it. Yeah. And I said, Now, you know, I told you I was looking. I hope that you took me seriously. So then my dad being a dad, well, you're calling for money, you know, no, because I've already I've signed the papers, I was pre approved, that doesn't mean you will get a mortgage. But already I had gotten my mortgage. And I told them, Oh, I wasn't sure my mom was still standing on what was back then the extension, if people know what that is, you know. So I think part of it was, again, they didn't know that, you know, they didn't know anyone who was on their own at that time, especially their daughter, because you're always going to be their little girl. And, you know, I mean, they did teach me well about my money habits and that too. And then of course, my dad, when he caught his breath, said, well, good for you. Yeah, yeah. So expect to hear it verbally, expect to see it non-verbally too. But that's where you just have to be encouraged and you have to be thick-skinned. You have to be persevered like many things in life too,

whatever your goals are. Yeah, I mean, I can totally agree with that. I've definitely had lots of, I mean, that's a big motivator, I think, for me. It always has been, whether that's good or not, the show your kind of critics that they're going to, they're wrong. It's like, I'll show you that I can achieve this.

And that is a really powerful, you know, way to, I guess, turn a negative into a positive, right? And like you said, it's not easy. You had to work several jobs. You worked really hard to achieve what you did, but you did it. And I think that's the really important thing to remember. It is possible. It's not easy to get there. Right. And now I'm having some flashbacks here

too. Cause I remember after seeing the place that I bought, um, I was sitting in a coffee shop and I was alone and I remember going through, well, it had the top three things that I wanted that I told my agent I wanted and other things that were negotiable. So then I thought, okay, it's now or never. I'm going to jump off the deep end. Now, if I don't like it and I'm starting to sink, I'm going to sell. But if I don't do it now, I'm making excuses for myself. Why wouldn't I do it? Yeah. It's scary. I mean, it still feels like, I mean, would you agree with me? Every time you go and do anything in real estate, it feels like I'm jumping off the You're always afraid you're doing it at the wrong time.

Right. And it's like, and what I tell people, it's like, it's not about market timing because no one has, no one knows. It's only in retrospect that you could be like, oh, that was the best time. Or I remember that people were saying, oh, yeah, it's a really good time to buy in Toronto. There was a time before I bought. And I thought, but it's not really a good time in my life yet. Right. You know, and so I just wasn't quite ready.

And that and guess what? Then the market even got better and it doesn't matter when you're in the market there's going to be as soon as you buy I talk about it buyer's remorse you're going to find something better you're going to wonder why you bought it and that that's that's pretty typical again is it right in your life even if you are going in and you're doing a higher interest rate is it right in life? And just because everybody else is doing it doesn't mean it's right for you. Yeah. So it's just a matter of kind of, you know, when it is, but also my backup, I always think, well, what's the worst that can happen? And what would I do? So what's the worst that can happen? What would I do? Well,

then I just say home ownership isn't what I thought it was going to be for me. So I'd like to sell this place. So kind of with that. Always good to have a plan B, plan C. And I think, yeah, especially when you're doing a big financial decision like that, it's good to play out those worst case scenarios and actually plan out, okay, if it is the worst case scenario, which is very, it's unlikely, but it could happen. What would you do? And it's good to have that plan. And so it sounds, you know, as we're talking, it sounds like real estate was a big proponent to your financial success. Was there anything else that you're really glad? It sounds like from what I'm hearing, getting into real estate, even when people are like,

oh, you can't afford it. This isn't a good time for you. You made the decision for yourself and overall long-term it paid off. And another thing was also, um, trying to figure out how can I achieve some of these things like real estate? Um, when I'm, you know, on a certain salary, well, you got to earn more money. The only way to do that is to have side hustles before they were even called side hustles. And so you earned more money. Was there anything else that you would kind of attribute some of your, you know, to you achieving your own financial independence? A lot of planning. I love to plan. And I over plan. That's good. And I love crunching numbers. So you have to look at the numbers. So I don't care what people call it, budget planning, goal reaching, etc. And that it's more the planning than taking the numbers to somebody who can budget and maybe who can tell me. to the book is to my parents. I think my writing partner also feels very strongly from her background and her family to having having some good role models and having that idea there.

Having to wait, never spend more than you make. I remember my parents always saying that, that that was an important lesson to me as well. But also knowing that, like, I mean, I spend a lot of time probably reviewing my personal bank because I have tenants in that too. So I remember in one presentation saying that I have a calendar that's just finance and people were laughing. Like, I know I sound geeky. I am geeky, but I do. And, you know, just to make sure all the bills are paid and things like that. I like planning. Yeah. And I like planning holidays.

Oh, yes. You know, stuff like that. So it does pay to plan. I do think it does. And with that, to also have a backup plan. I think most of my life was plan B, if not plan C. Interesting. Most of my life was plan B, if not plan C. And then it actually turned out, you know, in a way that, I mean, I felt like I wanted a home. And I felt I felt more of a home if I bought real estate.

But that doesn't necessarily need to be the case, too. I've traveled and I've felt quite at home being away from home in that way, too. So that was part of it. I think to trying to find some good role models that you can surround yourself with. So I started networking and some professional networking. And even just being amongst other females in particular who were goal-oriented and that that that rubs off too and that's that's the start of conversation and also gets you networking and meeting other people with uh with things so so you know I mean what's that book feel the fear and do it anyway yeah

and I mean that's part of it um but also having the supports in place. And I mean, that's that was just part of it. I think just some good budgeting. I'm not scared to use the word budgeting. Yeah, me neither. I don't care. Yeah. And just planning and just realizing, well, okay, how much money do I need? Just like when I'm going away, how much money do I need? How am I going to raise that money or get that money? Or where where would I get that money from? Also, I alluded to it before, but changing professionals as I felt that they could help me. And I really do, you know, give thanks to the people who did help me, such as accountants that I worked with,

real estate, bankers. These, there's some that come to mind that really, I mean, they were instrumental in helping me. That's awesome. No, and, and being being quite upfront with me to about choices, and they would be opinions of people's who I'd ask, and I would respect and I would consider but that doesn't mean that I have to follow what they're saying. Amazing. Well, that's that's helpful. I feel like that's a lot of good, good advice for people listening. And and you know, I know, we kind of talked a lot about, you know, if you're living your life, just single forever, but also all of this can be applied for if you're newly single, you know, out of a relationship, no matter what age. And the thing that I hear

often from people who are, you know, you know, relationships ended is, oh, I wish I, you know, took care of, you know, got more financial independence earlier, or is it too late for me? And I mean, yeah, you're shaking your head. Of course not. It is never too late. It may feel uncomfortable because this is very new, especially if you've never been, you know, in control of the finances or the money manager of the family. But, you know, I think, like you said, it's so important to find those people who can champion you and those role models. So you can get out of that kind of mindset that just because you've never done this means you can never do it in the future. You absolutely can. I mean, all of us start from somewhere, all of us start from scratch. So, you know, it's never too late, but it's not never nothing, you know, worth achieving is ever easy. But then when you get on the other side of it, doesn't it feel good? Right. And you know know, just everything you say, it seems that I have said that in kind of my previous career, too, when I worked in fitness and health. And I was a trainer.

And there would be people who maybe were just starting in fitness at the beginning and then found their own niche. And then, oh, my gosh, went on and they did some great things like run marathons. And and so, you know, it's the same thing kind of I say it's it's very similar in that way. If you can think of that taking stages. Also, I'm going to speak to even my age and stage. We don't know what the future brings. So, well, suppose I fell in love. True. And suppose, you know, that's a conversation that needs to be had

too. Because when you're, when you fall in love in your, maybe in your twenties and at that age and stage, you come to the table, maybe both with kind of equivalent packages. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah. We have no money. Yeah. That's typical when you're in your twenties. If there's a kitchen table, even I remember, remember you know in my younger years and all those moves that i was making um and that but now um you know at this age and stage that also is advice to get and conversations to have and looking forward to taking care of myself if my health was to change and things things like that these are all things more likely someone my age may have the conversation but somebody at any age and stage and especially when you have family finances included and if you have children and

that that you want to have well that yeah that actually uh is a good uh question now say you're single and you know you you're retired you're living your best life but what about you know like this is something i think about because me and my husband are probably not going to have children what happens when we're older what if he dies and then i'm on my own who is going to take care of me when i'm in my like 80s is that something like how do you kind of plan for that is that you know what are your thoughts on that yeah oh that that's almost another podcast. I know.

Yeah. Maybe that is. And I'll say now this, okay. So without knowing me and with the, and with the listeners only listening to me, they may not even get this. But just the other day I said that first rental condo that I bought is a son or daughter I never had. It's going to take care of me when I'm older is what I always thought that I bought is a son or daughter I never had. It's going to take care of

me when I'm older is what I always thought why I bought it. For when I'm older, I want to make sure I'm comfortable. I don't have siblings, and I don't have children. So would that mean if I went to stay someplace and it was expensive, or if I wanted private health care and that, that's why I kind of always thought of purchasing that at that time. You know, at that time, the markets weren't doing well. And I was tired of seeing my statements producing what they weren't producing. And I was back to working as a professional because I had just finished teacher's college and that. So that's how that came to be.

So I guess also being open minded and just thinking of that. I think that's the fear that stops people from talking about it. Oh, absolutely. Because they're scared. I mean, none of us like to talk about it. But it's such an important conversation to have. And that's just, again, just something I've had to delve into in depth, because I'm alone. And because I'd never want to put a particular person in charge of being my executor, say, especially in this situation,

I don't want anything to happen, but especially having tenants and other properties, etc. So corporate executor is an option that a lot of people don't even ever think about. And sometimes even for elderly couples who don't want to with their children, say, living globally or children who aren't able to take on responsibility well and that there's there's a lot of options well it was only for me having conversations with others that I even learned about that yeah so it's not yeah like you said even if you have kids it's not a done deal that they'll they can move to Australia you know right you know and yeah some other plans I guess that goes back to your point of why it's so important to you to talk about it, but also to make plans and plan A, B and C,

just in case to know your options. That that's right, you know, and then, you know, that you just like to encourage like I that certainly, in looking around my classroom when I was in it, and just wondering, like, there's so there's so much energy there's so much hope when you're working with youth and younger people and that and just wondering what's going through their mind and their future and in doing some focus groups with much younger people too who are just starting off in post-secondary and that one of the messages that came up was um they're comfortable with debt they're used to debt well they wouldn't have gotten to post-secondary probably because that's quite expensive for a parent to to certainly cover

the cost of these days but they also weren't sure how they were going to get out of debt you know and i know you've you've touched on this on episodes too, like, well, good debt, bad debt. Well, good debt can become bad debt. You buy a house that's too big for you to carry or you go into a profession where there's not a lot of jobs in that, good debt can become bad debt. And line of credit is still debt.

Yeah. It's still debt like it's anything you own that if something was to happen to you tomorrow would have to be paid off yep yep and so there is like we don't want to be scared of debt because we all have to take on some yeah it can be a useful tool for sure oh sure you know um so but we have to understand it too and so yeah so that's that's where you know getting the education and that and not everybody who works in finance is out for sales either i think that sometimes there's a bad rap there for different institutions or different people again Again, like in any profession, licensed or not, we're going to have people who are more ethical and people who we're more comfortable with. And those are the people who I want to support. Yeah, that's why it's so important to interview,

not just, you know, you wouldn't believe how many people I talked to. I'm like, oh, so you have a financial advisor or financial planner. How did you choose them? I don't know, they're a recommendation from a friend, or they were just like my parents guy or my parents gal or something like that and it's you need to interview these people to see if they're good for you just because they're a recommendation from a friend doesn't mean anything really like you know you need to do your own due diligence and see sure absolutely and and what the fit and what the comfort level is etc and for everybody that's going to be different. Because if you're not comfortable with them, you're not going to be honest with them. They're not going to know everything that they should know. They're not going to get to know you as well as they should. And that so yeah, and then that that kind of determines what what works for you and what doesn't. Absolutely. Well, I know we could probably talk forever. I already have an interesting, like I'm thinking about a future podcast episode about planning for things when you're much older, which I feel like I haven't really delved into, but I've been thinking a

lot more as my parents are reaching retirement. So anyways, that's for a future episode. But Ardell, you, your book, Bank on Yourself, Why Every Woman Should Plan Financially to Be Single Even If She's Not, where can people grab a copy and where can people follow you online? Are you on social media? Is that something that you do? How old am I? You're trying to find out. I don't know. I've been talking to so many people and so many people are like, no, I'm not. I'm like, good for you. I wish I could not be on social media if I had a choice. I'm on it no more than I need to be. My writing partner is. And also, it is available on Kindle.

Also, if people are comfortable, if you're comfortable, or I can give the information now, they can contact me through you. And the book is available through Authors. It's $20. Okay, cool. And then it will be delivered, as you know, or it will be mailed um somebody wants it wants it mailed out so i can leave that information with you and then or do you have a website or anything for me personally no okay so but uh the plan single is part of related the book is on that

that site as well okay great great perfect yeah so i mean but uh kindle we were in um of course all of the amazon stores and all of the um bookstores when we were first released and also part of the international women's day for manitoba securities commission and money smart manitoba so the bookstores out there too. So as they reopen, they may be reshelfing as well. But my most recent research on this is that's where they are. And certainly, you know, through me and contact, I'm happy to give people a book. Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you again for taking the time to come on over to my little studio, which is just my living room, guys, and sharing all of your wisdom. It's been a pleasure having

you on the show. Well, it's been a lovely, comfortable studio. Thank you very much for the conversation. I hope that it has encouraged people. And if they need more encouragement, I'm happy to give that as well too, because you will feel discouraged at times too. But just hang in there. But you're proof that anything is possible. And if you keep on hearing no's, eventually you're going to get a yes. And maybe the yes has to come from you. That's right. I like that. Yeah, that's right. That's right, for sure. All right. And that was episode 305 with Ardell Harrison. Her book is called Bank on Yourself, Why Every Woman Should Plan Financially to Be Single Even If She's Not. Now you can find this on Amazon. I also guarantee you could probably find it at your library or you

could also request your library to get copies in. But as Ardell mentioned, I believe you can just email her and she can figure out how to get a copy to you if you want. So her email is ardell, A-R-D-E-L-L-E-T-O at yahoo.ca. So that is where you can find a copy of her book to read for yourself. And she's not on social media. So she's like one of the few people on this planet who isn't on social media. So she's like one of the few people on this planet who isn't on social media. And I'm a bit jealous because I wish sometimes I can take like a full on social media break, but it's not going to happen. This is not going to happen. It's just not the it's just not realistic, is it? No. Anyways, so things to share with you do not go away. Just have a few words I want to share about our podcast episode sponsor, and then I'll be right back. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by

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the show notes of any episode ever that I've done just by going to jessicamorehouse.com slash 305. You can check out the show notes of any episode ever that I've done just by going to JessicaMorehouse.com slash the number of that episode. Or if you're not sure what the episode number is, though, it should be right there wherever you're listening. Just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash podcast and it'll have all the episodes listed on my website for you to check out all the podcast show notes. And the reason you want to check out the show notes is because there's going to be important links. Things that I mentioned throughout the episode will be in the podcast show notes. So make sure to check that out. Another thing that you want to check out if you want to, you're inspired by this episode to take control of your finances. Well, I've got a free resource library you can opt into, sign up, make an account and

get all my freebies all in one nice little place. And it has like, honestly, like spreadsheets, like, you know, budget spreadsheet. It also has checklists and guides has some videos and past webinars I've done. It has a bunch of stuff, and it's all there for free. So if you just go to Jessica Morehouse.com slash resources, you can check that out. Another thing that you may not be aware of is I do have a shop page. So although I have a few budget spreadsheets that are part of that resource library, not all of them. So if you have a specific, you know, situation, like you're self employed, but your partner is an employee, and you want a budget spreadsheet for something like that. Or if you are an employee, and you also have a side hustle, and you want to organize that all in one spreadsheet, I've got I've got that if you go to

JessicaMoorhouse.com slash shop, that is where you can find all of my different budget spreadsheets, including some of the free ones. I also have some merch in case you're wondering. Actually, I should probably add some new pieces because we're entering wintertime and I feel like who doesn't want like a fun little hoodie or something like that. So I'm going to talk to my sister about that actually. I think that's our next little project. So if you again, go to JessicaMurhouse.com slash shop, I've got some hats, I've got a mug, I've got some t shirts, you're gonna want to check those out. And of course, I've got my own investing course called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. So again, if you were inspired by Ardell and want to start building your wealth for long term, you know, financial stability and success and financial independence,

I've got a course for you. It's called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. Obviously, as the title may suggest, specifically for Canadians. It really dives into the specifics that we Canadians need to know because guess what? Finance in America and Canada, they're different. They really are. So we've got different taxation rules. We have different registered accounts. We have different registered uh accounts we have different platforms different products i mean everything's a bit different okay so if you want to learn more about that again you can check the show notes there's a link in there or you can just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash wbb that's jessicamorehouse.com slash wbb you can find more

information about the course and then you can apply. And if you're a good fit, you'll have a little call with me and who doesn't want to have a call with me? Yeah, right. Call with me specifically. Why not? Then yeah, and then we'll have a little chat, see if it's right for you. And then you can enroll if that's something you want to do. Highly recommend to do that. Now, now that we're at the end of 2021, because I will be raising the price in the new year because I am 100% undercharging for this course. And the main reason is I just want to get as many students in the door as possible, get them applying everything that they're learning so they can start building their wealth and have those, you know, success stories that we can all share with

each other. So yeah, if you are interested and want to get it for the lowest price, it will be well, then you're gonna have to go to Jessica more has.com slash WBB and apply now. Okay, that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening. A big shout out to my podcast editor, Matt right out. I will be back here next week with another episode. You're going to like this one, guys. You're going to like this one. Next week, I have an episode all about real estate, which again, is a friend of mine. I mean, gosh, I feel like I have been thinking about real estate and homeownership and all that kind of stuff for a long time. And I have a guest who's been in the industry for a very long time. We talk about market trends and how to avoid mistakes and anything that you can think about when it comes to real estate and especially what's

going on with this crazy hot market. Is it going to cool down? Is this a good time to buy? Is this not a good time to buy? All that kind of stuff we're going to talk about in that episode. So make sure to subscribe wherever you're listening to the podcast. But otherwise, I will see you back here next Wednesday for that episode. Have a good rest of your week. Have a good weekend. See you soon. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network.

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