More Money Podcast - 308 Trauma, Privilege & Diversity in Personal Finance - Parween Mander, Money Expert and Founder of the Wealthy Wolfe

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

As the podcast starts to wind down before a short winter break, I’m so glad that before the end of the season I get to share today’s episode. Today we’re tackling some important topics like privilege, money trauma, and how to build generational wealth as a child of immigrants. To help navigate these topics is my guest and fellow Accredited AFCC® Parween Mander.  Parween is a South Asian money expert and founder of the Wealthy Wolfe. She holds the Accredited Financial Counselor Canada® designation and is also a certified Trauma of Money Facilitator. She’s on a mission to provide honest and relatable financial coaching for women of colour. From her upbringing as a child of immigrants, she has been determined to help other WOC overcome their financial traumas and build generational wealth. Parween shares how her money journey began at 16 and why privilege is often a big part of people’s money journey that isn't acknowledged. There needs to be more diversity in this industry and I’m glad Parween is one of the amazing voices that’s spreading that message and her financial expertise.  For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/308 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is episode 308. And oh, hello, I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. So excited, just two more weeks of the podcast and take a little break for the holiday season. Hopefully, you're going to take some time off this holiday season too, because we all, man, do we ever deserve a break? This has been a year. This has been a year um anywho um so excited though to end things off on you know just like a bang i think i i think i kind of killed it this season i'm really proud of all the episodes and amazing guests i've had on the season uh including today's guest parween mander she's someone i've been following on social media for quite a while because um you know she's just

been very uh inspirational and i think she's a she's a fan of the podcast. She was listening to the podcast, you know, for a while, which is kind of cool that I'm like, Oh, I'm a fan of you. She's been to me. I love that. I love when that happens. So Parween is a South Asian money expert on a mission to provide honest and relatable financial coaching for women of color from immigrant upbringings through one-on-one coaching and mentoring. And she built a net worth of $100,000 by the age of 26 and is on a mission to help other women of color overcome their financial traumas and build generational wealth. And Parween is the founder of The Wealthy Wolf, holds an accredited financial counselor Canada designation, just like yours truly. Hey! And she is also a certified trauma of money facilitator. Honestly,

it's really kind of cool that she has the same designation as me because honestly, I have not met that many people that have an AFCC. So that was pretty, pretty cool. She's also from Vancouver, which is my hometown, which is very cool. So we really dive into so many amazing topics in this episode. She's an amazing guest. So can't wait to share this episode with you. But before I get to that interview, just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the more money podcast is supported by Motley Fool Canada. You know that I'm a diehard index investor. But what you may not know is I've got a little satellite portfolio on the side for some individual stock investing. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a passive investor practicing a long-term buy and hold strategy with these stocks, but this has been something I've been doing for a few years now. And one of the

resources I use to help with research and stock recommendations is Motley Fool's Stock Advisor Canada membership. Now, what drew me to Motley Fool Canada was that they share my same investment philosophy. They aren't about day trading or getting rich quick. They encourage buy and hold stock investing, making sure members are diversified, understand risk tolerance, and they even recommend investing in index funds. And most importantly, they want to educate Canadians about building wealth just like I do. So if you're interested in learning more about stock investing specifically, consider

joining over 70,000 of your fellow Canadian investors today by signing up to Stock Advisor Canada. And if you visit fool.ca slash Jessica, you can save 66% off your membership. Once again, to sign up and get 66% off, visit fool.ca slash Jessica. Welcome, Parveen, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thanks so much, Jessica, for having me. Being on your podcast is definitely a dream of mine. So I'm so, so excited to be here and chat with you. And you are the most gracious guest because we have tried this three times. We've tried this three times because of my tech issues. That is the fun part of doing this podcast remotely. But here we are, we're going to make it work. So thank you. Thank you. And I feel like such a noob. I'm like, I swear I have been doing this for six years.

But hey, these things happen. Welcome to the digital age. So anyways, I am so happy that you're on the show because number one, I think you are so inspirational for everything that you've done at such a young age. Honestly, I don't think I, I think I was just starting to learn literally just basic money management at your age and you're already totally ahead of the game, money coaching, creating your own financial education content. You're an AFCC, just I am, which if anyone doesn't know what that is because no one does it's accredited financial counselor canada you and me know everyone else who has the designation knows have you i guess not but i i have you ever gone to any of the i don't think they have done them for you know since since the

pandemic but they used to do like a conference uh for asccs so like yeah when i got my designation it was like literally the pandemic the year after so like the conference became like the virtual one so i never had to like fly to toronto uh for the conference was there there was a virtual one yeah it's like i don't know if i knew about that yeah oh well that's why i was wondering i'm like oh i guess they're just not doing anything shoot maybe i totally missed the boat on that did that happen like yeah the canadian did that happen like this year like in 2021 uh it happened last year around this time and it's happening again like in like two weeks or something like that um i did not get my email so i'm gonna have to follow up on that because i just uh. Oh, interesting. Yeah. No,

I did not get, or I do have a tendency to, you know, delete emails. You're like, you know, I'm like, oh, this isn't, you know, I just like, don't look at them like, oh, what is this spam? And then delete. And so that's exactly what happened. I'm sure it's in my deletes. Okay, cool. Well, good to know. I'm going to look into that later. But anyways, that's not why we're on the show but um like yeah like i mentioned i've been following you on social media for quite a while and i find you know as a young canadian who you just have such a an also a very unique perspective and uh i'm excited to kind of really dive in but i think what's it was really awesome i think unique about you is really your

your background and your story and you're really not afraid to talk about certain topics that I think, you know, most people might not know how to talk about it or might, you know, kind of shy away from it, which is really, you know, things like financial trauma and generational wealth and being a woman of color and also a child of immigrants. So let's kind of start with your background and your story. how did how did you eventually come to a point where you're like, I want to not only better myself financially and and improve my financial literacy, but also help others? Yeah, for sure. So my sort of journey with money started when I was 16 years old, when we almost lost our childhood home, the one I'm literally sitting in right now. And at the time, being the eldest daughter of immigrant parents, where, you know, English was a language barrier, I was responsible for transiting what the

bank, you know, representatives were saying to my parents. So I was very overly exposed to adult financial matters at such a young age. And what that experience taught me was, hey, if you don't have money, that means you lack safety, you know, power, control. So that must mean if you have money, you have those things. So at a very young age, I vowed to myself to become financially independent. So I wouldn't be put in the same position as my parents where money was, again, just a tool for survival, right? I really wanted to enjoy and thrive with my money so 10 years later at the age of 26 i hit my 100k uh net worth and i'm really on a mission to empower other women from similar upbringings

do the same because when i was on this journey there was no one who looked like me out there right talking about finance talking about the immigrant experience um it was just the dudes at the bank. And that was not very welcoming. Just a bunch of white people like me. It's true. Like, when I started learning about personal finance a decade ago, there was not a single person I could point to that was a person of color. Really? No, maybe a few financial journalists that I followed. but otherwise, the typical money experts you'd see on TV or quoted in the news or talking heads on the news, all white people and predominantly

men as well. Absolutely. And so we're just missing this whole conversation around personal finance because I generally find that the personal finance advice is centered around individualism, looking out for yourself. But I come from a collectivist culture, meaning it's sort of this idea of community over self, which like in some ways is beautiful, but in other ways can also be kind of toxic,

but regardless. So when it came to personal finance, it was like, you know, I am responsible for my parents' retirement, right? No one's really talking about how I'm supposed to balance my own needs, but also that of like my family. So yeah, it was just such a gap. Yeah. I mean, let's talk about that. I think that's actually just very interesting. Because yeah, my culture, I mean, just, I don't know,

it's, it's, it's very, yeah, like you said, individualistic. There's not so much the idea that I'm going to take care of my parents and my parents didn't really take care of their parents like they did in certain respects, like, you know, health issues and stuff like that. But in terms of finances, it was no, no, no, you need to make sure that you are taken care of. And if anything, it's the grandparents still kind of try to like they took care of some of my you know uncles and stuff like that right so it's not it's not really yeah it is kind of a bit of uh i don't know how to describe it but i guess like the term that always comes to mind is like that bootstrap mentality is like

you just need to figure it out or if you can't afford it you need to work harder it's always every man for themselves kind of mentality yeah which is one way to i guess motivate yourself to improve your financial situation but it's also a lot of freaking pressure and may not you know i do think there needs to be a balance of like what you can personally do to improve your life but also there needs to also be greater change in in your smaller community your greater community society and things like that i've i've I've been struggling with that. I think a lot the past few years, just talking to more people with different backgrounds and experiences. Cause yeah, me growing up, that was, that was the, you have to figure it out on your own. Um, and I thought, oh, that's great. Cause that's, uh,

you know, that'll make me stronger and work harder, But also like that's, I don't, that's just not necessarily the right, I think, fit for most people. And it also, I think, doesn't leave any room for the talk about generational wealth, which has been a big topic lately, and also just circumstance. Like, I'm very privileged. I don't, you know, it's funny, because I never thought of myself. And I think a lot of people in my situation who grew up like lower middle class never thought of ourselves as privileged because there's always other people who had way more than us. But there's so many things that I do have or did have compared to people that like, I cannot imagine what it is like to immigrate to Canada. Like my grandparents and my dad's side immigrated to Canada, but they're from Scotland. It's not

really the same, you know, it's not like they were immigrating from a war-torn country or or leaving a real you know with nothing they came here and you know it he set up a bakery and she was a teacher like they had to go back to school and start from you know a lower level than where they were but it's not not the same not the same yeah and i think um it's interesting this concept of privilege, right? I think, because even for me, I definitely have a privilege myself too. And I think it's important that I acknowledge that. Like I am able to live at home

because again, in collectivist culture, especially within South Asian cultures, it's very normal for adult children to live at home until they're married, right? And so I always preach this like, yes, I was able to save more because you know I'm living at home but that money is almost sort of like saved for like the future of me sort of giving back to my parents as well right because at the end of the day I am still

responsible um or will be you know partly responsible for you know their well-being when they're older um but yeah I think privilege is just a conversation that I think is starting to happen a lot more. I'm seeing more influencers or financial influencers, as we call them, speak to that. I think it's really important to acknowledge that aspect. Yeah, but I think the tricky thing that I'm always kind of struggling with is because, you know, lots of traditional financial advice was very focused on the individual, what you can do, take responsibility. If you just do this, this, and this,

you can see an improvement. But now that we're having more conversations about, well, it's not just about what you can do. Sometimes it is like circumstance and we're not all starting the race at the same starting line. How do we kind of balance it or should we get rid of some of the old financial advice or what? Like one example is I posted an Instagram reel lately

that's been getting some traction for better or for worse, but it was really just an example of compound interest. I use the example of if you started with a thousand dollars and then continue to contribute a thousand dollars every single month for 20 years, you'd get like half a million dollars by the end of 20 years. So many comments being like, how on earth am I supposed to get $1,000 per month? Like, that's crazy. Like, I can't afford that. And just like, you have no concept of what people can afford. I'm like, well, I cannot obviously make a simple Instagram reel and address every single income level. Like it's just an example. Yeah. But at the other end of it, I was also thinking, I understand everyone has a

different situation. And some people Yeah, like they just don't earn that kind of money. And that's, that's just the reality of it. But I was seeing a lot of the comments and kind of thinking, they're saying this and they're explaining this, but I also kind of like, I think maybe it's just from, you know, my, my background of learning a lot of this traditional, you know, kind of old school financial education of the don't complain, find a solution, take responsibility. And I feel like, I'm like, I'm really conflicted. I want to empathize, but I also want to motivate and give solutions, but I'm just not even sure what to do at this point.

Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting you mentioned that because I see that a lot with articles from Refining29 or the Money Diaries series. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that where it's like how so-and-so saved up for a down payment. And some of the numbers are really extravagant and it shows they were given a gift by their parents um to help with it down and people in the comments were just like this is so out of touch and like just so not realistic and so i yeah i definitely feel like there's a little bit of like again just kind of be acknowledging of um the sort of what's realistic for some people to attain and what's also more relatable um but same time i i, I do agree with you with the sense of like, at the end of the day, there are some systemic systematic things, you know, hinder some

people from, you know, entering at the same level as someone else, right. And so like, for my parents, that was the language barrier, right? There wasn't necessarily, you know, Punjabi financial literacy for them. And so they missed out on you know starting an RRSP at a young age even with an RESP they were told it was you know a fraud a fraudulent scam thing to do and so they started very late yes I walked away with like maybe four grand but my siblings who are younger have a lot more than that because again they didn't know any better right same thing with like real estate like in indian communities um real estate is actually one of like the sort of and i think

for a lot of immigrant communities real estate sort of like the idea of like the best investment is real estate um and i think a lot of at least i know indian families have made their wealth through that but also teaches the next generation the wrong thing which is like oh put all your eggs in one basket just like that's the only way to grow your wealth yeah and like I live in Vancouver to enter the real estate market is just so insane that I can't imagine that being my only sort of source of like diversifying my wealth yeah Yeah. So yeah, there's just so many layers to this. There's so many layers. Yeah, it's a complex situation. I feel like the I feel like yeah, back like 10 years ago, it was a lot simpler. But I think it was a lot simpler because we just did not we just ignored a bunch of factors. Absolutely. Yeah. And put everything back on the individual to be like, well, you know, and that's, I think that's honestly a big reason why I sometimes don't love the fire community. Like I love the,

the idea of achieving a big goal, but I feel like there's, it really does ignore a lot of these factors. It's like, yeah, a lot of the people that achieve FIRE make six-figure salaries. So it's not necessarily possible for everybody to retire by 35. Yeah, absolutely. And also I think when I look at the FIRE community, I just get a little bit concerned about how much they preach frugality and this idea of just living so scarcely. And I'm like, what's the point? When you have the money are

you going to spend more or are you just going to like maintain this lifestyle and again no hate or disrespect to anyone who choose that lifestyle for them but I get concerned with just how much of that message is being put out there and I think when we come back to the idea of like money trauma and triggers and stuff like that it's not really a healthy lifestyle for everyone. You know? No. Yeah. I think the, the big issue is the extra and that's, I've always had issues with like extremes. Like that's why I'm like, I, I think there's so many great elements, but there's a lot of extremes that kind of freak me out that I feel like, yeah, I can probably have some negative effects maybe to your, your mental health or even your physical health. Gosh, if you're living like super frugally, but also even for

like some of the extremes, like when I was just starting to blog, fire wasn't a thing, but the huge topic was, um, debt and paying off. Like the big stories weren't so-and-so reach this net worth at this age. It was so-and-so paid this amount of debt by this age. Like that was the huge thing probably because we're just coming out of the recession. So everyone had debt. Makes a lot of sense. And so that was like kind of the splashy story. But again, it was like in or and then you read these stories, like how did these people pay off like $200,000 in debt in two years? Like that's wild. It's because they lived like extreme, extreme lives or even like, I don't know if you remember the show. I'm not sure if it's on air anymore, but like extreme couponers, extreme lengths, just to get free groceries, you're like, they could just be spending that time and energy on maybe a bit like an actual business model.

You know? So yeah, it's the extremes that I feel like, it's kind of like, you know, I've probably said this on the show so many times, it's like a crash diet. It'll work in the short term. The long term will have some possibly negative after effects. So you just need to be aware of what are the consequences of living in an extreme way, whatever that means. Absolutely. And I mean, for myself, too, I kind of went through a similar experience again because of my experience with money and this idea in an immigrant, you know, upbringing money

was a tool of survival. It was like, yeah, money is only spent in times of like need, not necessarily wants. And so when I got into my 20s and I got my job and, you know, I had student loans to pay off, I was extremely frugal. I was stuck in a cycle of having extreme anxiety, parting with my money, being really frugal. And just, yeah, anytime I would spend and buy myself like, you know, a latte or whatever, I would just be so hard on myself. And I was like, man, this cannot be sustainable. Like this sucks. Like I'm making more money than I ever have, but this sucks. And so being caught in that cycle of like depriving myself and then being so fed up that I deprived myself that I would just binge spend on random crap because I deprived myself and then feeling guilty for that, put in like kind of, you know,

being stuck in that cycle over and over again. And it was only when I again, like stopped to reflect, Hey, where the heck is this coming from? Like, where is this like fear and like anxiety of like letting all my money go coming from um you know that started to make some breakthroughs and be like you know what like this this is enough of that cycle i need to be able to enjoy money still be responsible it's all possible but um yeah so that's why i want to see the fire community like for me it is triggering because that was a cycle that i wasn't and i didn't enjoy it but it they've glamorize to a point where I'm like, oh, maybe that is the way, you know? Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned,

yeah, the word trigger. I'm like, you know what, sometimes I feel like I wish these words existed a long time ago, like the word trigger and the word gaslighting. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's what that is. I totally relate to you. I mean, I feel like we had different upbringings, but also so many similarities. Like I grew up in a very frugal household and it is like a generational thing because we, you know, pretty much on both sides of my family never had money. And so how we can control our financial lives, there was never really any talk about investing or building wealth or building a business or anything like that. Absolutely not. It was literally just living within your budget, living within your means frugality. And so,

hey, I learned some great things when I was an adult because they were in me, you know, as natural habits. But like you said, also, I still in my mid 30s have a hard time treating myself to like little things like a coffee. I'm like, do you really need that fancy coffee? Like still? And I'm like, wow, all these years, I still have this. Even though I'm like, girl, you can afford a latte. Yeah, fine. So I'm curious. And I'm sure too, since you work with clients one on one, I'm sure you encounter a lot of, you know, things like this and people, certain things triggering them. Like I think, you know, when I'm online, there's certain, if someone posts a certain thing, there's certain things that do trigger me. And I'm like,

interesting, where does that stem from? So I'm curious, like, how does one even first, I guess, recognize, because I feel like sometimes it's even hard to recognize when you feel a certain way like that. Like you just, I feel like sometimes it's even hard to recognize when you feel a certain way like that. Like you just I feel like we get triggered so much on social media. We almost don't even recognize. Yeah, for sure. Right. And then what do you do about it? How can you work through that so you can not feel like that forever?

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely like a complex topic, we'll put it that way. But I think what I see with a lot of my clients, again, who are generally women of color from collectivist cultures, is this idea of keeping up with the Joneses, right? This comparison game with like their friends, maybe another family, their cousin, etc. And feeling so inadequate that it leads them to, you know, stuff like overspending, or again, the other side of it, which is like the having a hard time spending money on themselves. And so the first thing, you know, I help them do is just really understand, like, what in their environment leads them to feeling, you know, a certain way about money, which is more so a negative feeling about money. So whether that's frustrated, whether that's inadequate, whether that's anxious, stressed, whatever it might be,

what are some things in their environment? And again, this could be as simple as logging into their bank account, right? And seeing their credit card statement and then be like, nope, then like completely shutting down because that stresses them out, right? Or trigger something in them. That's a trigger. Or maybe it's a certain friend who, if they always see, roll up, or if they message, you know, to go out, like that's also triggering. Because again, this idea of keeping up with the Joneses.

And so I think when it comes to triggers, it's, you know, both sort of tangible things, like again, like opening up a bank statement, but also people around you, right? Who can also be, unfortunately, you know, triggers you know triggers and again like your environment as well um it's a big factor yeah i guess yeah that's the thing i think a lot of people have a hard time especially what i recognize when people are like oh i just started learning about personal finance is something i really want to take care of and and and learn more about. The hard thing is once you're kind of getting into this, this world, and I remember doing this too, you do realize a lot of

external forces impacting kind of your thoughts and your actions. And unfortunately, sometimes what you need to do in order to live the life that you do want and not feel bad and associate money with negative feelings is to kind of, you know, take a look at some of your relationships and see if you need to let any go. Because there's definitely some people that I let go of in my life. And now looking back, I'm glad they were, you know, if someone's not adding value to your life, or if you feel drained and not so good about yourself after hanging out with them, that's not adding value to your life or if you feel drained and not so good about yourself after hanging out with them that's not you know a good situation absolutely and i think like on top of that too is i know a lot of people have a lot of hesitation around even just talking about money

with their girlfriends you know or their friends because it just feels like such a hush hush against like shameful topic and in that because no one's talking about it um you know we kind of we're kind of stuck kind of going along like spending money going out even though you know you may not be able to afford to do so um so i think it's also important that again like you said understand those relationships that you do value and that you you know you do have the safety and space to be vulnerable, right? To be like, hey, you know what? I'm working towards this goal or, you know, money's a little bit tight right now. Could we do something else instead?

I can promise you, and I've seen this with my clients as well, it opens doors for conversations to be had around money and you hear the same thing from someone else. And I think we keep keep because of social media where everyone's best lives are out there you know for display and like no one's posting receipts about their dinners or you know how much their purse actually cost um we just assume everyone um is fine financially but behind closed door we we never truly know right everything we find about credit card right how do we know it's inspired by dialogue yeah we just always i always used to assume like i used to work downtown like right on bay street

in toronto and you know also worked at a law firm and so there was everyone looked amazing everyone was spending money all the time it was it was was actually a very toxic environment. Triggering I can't even go into the building without feeling bad. But I used to always think like going on the subway and seeing people that were like my age, have these expensive clothes and purses and, and, you know, technology and stuff like that. And I'm like, How on earth can they afford that? Like, I can't afford that. And I'd always assumed that they were making more or something. No, you really never know. They could be funding it with Yeah, their credit card, or you don't know, maybe they get an allowance from their parents. Totally. But it's it's one of those things, like you mentioned, I think that's such an important thing to remember

is number one, standing up for yourself, with your friends be like, No, I need to take care of me. And this isn't in my budget, or this isn't in alignment with my goals. But like you said, like it is such a great opening to talk about money because maybe they're waiting for someone to open that, to start that conversation and you're that person. So I think someone's always waiting for the other person to talk about money. And there's so many times where I've seen, like for me, so many of my friends love to talk to me about money because they don't know who else to talk to but they know that I'm like a safe space non-judgmental and stuff like that so I feel like you know what there's probably a lot of people out there including your friends who actually do want to talk about it but they're waiting for someone

else to bring it up for sure and I think another thing that I've noticed is like yeah no for sure I think also it's like you know social activities are are so expensive sometimes you know what i mean and i also like a lot that people are like okay dinners and drinks and this and that and so with my clients when again like we're trying to understand their spending and rein that in a little bit i'm always like you know let's think about some alternatives at the end of the day you all you wanted to get out of this time together is sort of like that, that exactly like spending time together, having quality time together. How you do that doesn't necessarily mean you always have to spend money.

Right. And I think that we're always so caught up in this idea of like, you know, spending time together means, you know, spending money. But, you know, we can like do like do like a you know like a potluck thing at the house or like a movie night in or something really chill um and i think in a way we're almost wired to be like no that's weird right like why would i like you know like i just go out to and have this nice dinner and whatnot like why would i do that so, just very interesting, I guess, layers to, I guess, the societal pressures of money and spending money and all that. Yeah. I think it's also helpful to have people that are

on the same path or quite honestly, income level. For me, that's honestly never been a big issue. I don't have friends that want to go to fancy restaurants. So I don't even now I'm like, No, like, we're still pretty, you know, my husband works in the arts industry. And so, you know, it's never like, Oh, let's go to the most expensive restaurant. It's like, No, no, no, let's just go to this dive bar. And so, you know, I think sometimes that helps is also finding people that are, you know, doing the same thing as you that want to and that's why I always encourage is like, find people who are, you know, doing the same thing as you that want to. And that's why I always encourage us like find people who are, you know, wanting to achieve the same things that you want to achieve, finding those communities, whether they're online, or you can find offline communities. I want to kind of switch gears a little bit, just because I think we didn't really

chat about this. But it's pretty incredible that you were, even with some of your things mentioned, like you have, you know, sometimes a hard time spending money or the frugality aspect of your upbringing, but you were still somehow able to kind of turn that scarcity mindset, which is something I deal with all the time, into that abundance mindset and achieve $100,000 net worth by 26. That's crazy. I probably had like $10,000 at 26. How are you able to do that? Like that isn't a huge, huge accomplishment. What what kind of things did you do in order to to make that happen? Yeah, for sure. So I think number one, again, like that privilege of being able to live at home, I'm gonna, you know, you know, own that as it is. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. I have to, you know, again, like know again like pay monthly bills etc but again with the caveat that you know there are times where I do spend a lump sum of money on

my parents or the household um but anyway so yeah that was definitely an aspect of it another thing too is I was really strategic with how I you know move through my milestones so when I first graduated university um I had my student loans. And so I was like, I need to pay off this student loan, because it feels like a weight on my shoulders. And once I'm done with that, I can move on to like the next thing, which was savings. So for me, again, being able to live at home, I was able to pay off student loans, and then move on to saving money. But again, especially early on that journey, that frugality aspect camp kept coming up for me, right? Oh, especially early on in that journey, that frugality aspect kept coming

up for me, right? I'm like, oh, I shouldn't be spending money. I should just be saving it. And what I really found helped was really segregating my income into three categories, which was my expenses, then my savings goals and investing goals, and then my spending money. And so my spending money, I got to blow to $0, you know, every two, every two weeks. And that changed the game for me. That's where I felt like, again, I was able to enjoy my life, you know, as a mid 20 something old, and but still be like financially responsible, I was still doing everything I need to do and take care of. And so strategically, that was definitely something that helped me along that journey. And another thing, too, is increasing my income.

Yeah, that's always a big factor, right? Yeah. That's a game changer. For sure. And I think that's not talked about enough. And like this idea of like we always need to cut back expenses and cut and cut and cut. And I'm like, no, no, no. Like this whole other world of like bringing in more money totally changed the game, right? It's a lot

more flexibility. And so that for me, that was like through negotiating my salary at work, bonuses, and then even starting my side hustle, which up until this year wasn't making me much money, but this year it has. And I've seen the fruits of like that labor as well. Like, Hey, this idea of bringing in more money, um, accelerates, uh, my savings goals. Yeah. Like I feel like, yeah, you're, you're so right. It doesn't get talked about, but it's, I think like, it makes sense why people like to focus on like the frugality and cutting back is like, that's an easy thing you could do right away it's not as easy to like just make more money I remember for sure I used to see there's a few financial experts like online this was years ago this was like literally years ago because I was in my 20s and super broke and they were talking about like well just make more money I'm like well that's easy for you someone

who's in their 30s 40s making a certain level but it's like I you know was in that space where it's like I totally get it like the people on that space where it's like I totally get it like the people on the Instagram where I'm like I totally get it I was in a similar situation so I feel you I didn't like when I was starting to invest all I could afford was like $200 and that was literally like yeah oh my god it's all like it felt like all my money like I was just like oh my gosh and so I understand it feels like that's impossible to increase your income when you've maybe never been able to. You've always lived on a certain income level. But it is possible. It's not easy. But yeah, similar to you, I did the side hustle thing. The other big thing is honestly switching employers,

not to be that millennial that's promoting job hopping. But every time I've left an employer, I've made an extra $10,000, if not more. So honestly, it's not about sticking it out and getting raises and bonuses. Sometimes you can really jack up your income just by switching companies. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's kind of my two cents, but I feel like employers are probably, now that we're in this, like, what is it? The great resignation. I don't know. it the great resignation this is actually the perfect time to do that isn't it what are you talking about you have all the leverage this is like the opposite to like my experience being like a you know great recession millennial where i'm like oh my god i'll work here for free you know i just need some i need a job on the resume gosh now it's like take advantage of this really weird world we're in.

And like, I talked to so many people like, oh, I hate my job. Like, oh, my gosh, this is the best time to start looking for another job. People are clamoring for employees. No one wants to work, apparently. So this is it. But I'm curious, you know, the side hustle thing, I think, I mean, that's been a big topic for a number of years. And, you know, it makes sense. But I think the other argument I've been seeing is, oh, great, we just need to monetize every, you know, passion project or hobby now, like it maybe has gone a little bit too far. What are your kind of sentiments on that? Like, for me, it's been great. But I can understand if you like to make candles for fun, do we need to have a candle shop? I don't know. Yeah, no yeah no for sure i think this idea of like the hustle culture definitely became you know toxic

and this was the idea that we always need to be on and productive and working about me that is capitalism right like that is capitalism at work um again for me like my story um i always wanted to work with people in the realm of personal finance and have a brand around financial education. And so it was a no brainer for my side hustle to be Yeah, first starting off a passion project, but really ultimately, you know, my bread and butter. But for I think for other people out there. Yeah, I think as long as you love your nine to five or again maybe don't love it but you're totally okay with you're not looking to do anything else um having like side projects and like you know passions and stuff like that it's still great you know creative outlet right and i

don't think you need to fall into that pressure of like learning how to market it on instagram and do all that because then that passion project just becomes another job and that will change everything for you. It won't be what it was before. So again, that's sort of my two cents on it. I totally see both sides. And again, you know what's best for you. Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I always like to remind people that just because you want to start, like if you want to start a side hustle and whether that means starting your own business or, or just doing like Uber or whatever to make some extra money. I think people like forget that. I'm like, you know, you don't have to do it forever. Like it's a temporary fix for you just saving a certain amount of money. And then once you've reached your goal, you can quit. Like you do not have to continue doing it for the long haul. Like

for me, I always personally thought I was going to just do this side hustle. I never wanted to do this full time, but here we are. And I thought I was just going to do it for a few years, make my money and, you know, invest it. And then eventually at a certain point, when I got into a certain maybe role in the career that I was pursuing, which was more marketing, then I'd quit. And it just didn't work out that way. I think for the better, but you know, like, but again, it's like, I never thought I was going to do this permanently. It was literally a temporary, like I started, I started to try to monetize my blog and stuff like that as a temporary means to earn some more money so I can beef up my emergency fund, retire, you know, put more money into my retirement fund,

go traveling and stuff like that. So I think that's the other thing to remember is like, you don't have to do it forever. You could just do it for a little amount of time and then stop whenever you like, or never, or you don't have to do it at all. Like there's other, you know, ways and maybe it's just about focusing on how to really grow your, the career you're in or switch careers entirely. I've been seeing a lot of that, actually. Absolutely. Now, I think we've kind of touched on this, but just because I really want to, you know, make sure we do talk about it. You know, everyone, we've talked a lot about the, everyone comes from different backgrounds and circumstances. But you know, you're a woman of color. And I feel like this is, you know know more people are talking about their stories and i think there's been more talk about how there needs to 100 cent be more there needs to be more diversity in the financial space because i mean it's a very it was it um i don't know if you

follow hey berna but she like her kind of tagline is like you know the financial industry is hella male and hella pale and i'm like that is 100% what it is yeah um what are some like unique financial struggles that maybe women of color specifically um encounter and what are some things that they can do to kind of overcome that if that's something that's even possible is it more of a societal thing or is it like is there individual things that they can do yeah I mean the two things that come up for me are around sort of salary negotiation and workaholism and the second one being a money disorder called uh financial enabling financial enabling is when you know we feel secure only when other people around us are you know secure so what that might look like is someone might need money

and even though you technically can't afford to give it to them, you're still going to do it because, hey, that person's going to feel good and therefore you'll feel good. So that codependency that exists. And I think as women and women of color, this idea that we always need to be good daughters, good wives, good moms comes up a lot. And so like that, it's almost in a way self-sabotage, right? Constantly being there for others financially without looking out for

yourselves. So that's definitely one theme that I see recurring with the clients that I work with, again, because they are women of color from immigrant upbringings. And I think what I always recommend there is really learning to set some financial boundaries, what that looks like, for me, like I have a family fund, like literally in my savings account, I have one dedicated family account. And so I'll siphon money off into there. And if I need to, if my parents ask or someone asks, like, that's the fund that I pull from, Right. And that reduces that resentment of, okay, like I don't, I can't really afford to, but here you go, et cetera. And so I

always encourage my clients like, Hey, let's take care of you first. Right. Your emergency fund, your debt repayment, your invest. And then let's set up this fund for, you know, XYZ person. Yeah. That's, that's so smart. That that's really smart i feel like yeah i've never heard of that before i mean i actually encountered that with um a client i worked with a number of years ago he was originally from venezuela and we're looking at his budget and trying to rework things he had some debt and also some saving schools and i'm like oh what's this kind of line you know thing here or this like um line in your spending is like, oh, that's me sending money back home to my family. I'm like, Oh, is that really important to you? He's like, it's I need to always send money back to my family. And so I'm like, okay,

how do we make sure that we're saving instead of it coming out of some other, you know, like, you're saving school for this, we need to make sure it's its own saving school. Yeah, absolutely. And then the other point i touched on which is idea of workaholism and salary negotiation again being a little color um in a workspace a corporate environment etc it's always like we're on this chase for excellence to prove ourselves right like oh if i just like do this for my boss or work extra hours and like paying sure not even being paid you know what i'm worth it's fine because in a way it's sort of ingrained with us like do this for my boss or work extra hours and like pay and sure not even being paid you know what i'm worth it's fine because in a way it's sort of ingrained with us like oh this is all

we're worth right this is all that we can get and we should be thankful and i think as children of immigrants this idea of having privilege with your career choices like also didn't exist for me growing up right because for me i was like i mean, like the idea of it, like being a lawyer and a doctor, et cetera, like sure that was the case, but it was also this idea of stability, right. Having a stable career, not necessarily a career in the arts or the creative field, like that felt, you know, irresponsible to me. Um, and so I think, again, those are some other themes that I've seen. Um, so my clients. Definitely. Yeah. No, I think those are, I'm sure people listening are, you know, again, those are just some other things I've seen. Some of my clients. Definitely. Yeah, no, I think those are, I'm sure people listening are, you know, like, oh, yeah, that's

relatable. I can definitely relate to that. So now before I let you go, because I know, so you offer services and you have so much great content. Where can people find more information about you or get in touch with you? Yeah. So on Instagram, you can find me at parween.mander i'm always there so shoot me a dm would love to connect with you guys and then my website is

linked in my bio but it's www.thewealthywolf.ca and you can find you know how to work with there some free resources um etc where does the name the wealthy wolf come? I got like the number one question I had, and I never got to it. Like, oh, good. You mentioned your name. Where did that come from? I like the name, but where's it from? For sure. So to me, the wolf always represented this duality that related to my identity. So the wolf is sort of like, you know, it can be alone, it can be alone, independent, do its thing thing but also this like family oriented in a pack sort of idea and as a daughter of immigrants I'm like this is literally my identity which I'm trying to you know I'm always struggling with which is like being there for myself but also

being there for others and so um yeah the wolf I like I have paintings around my room around it and so um my fiance was the one that put together the, hey, wealthy wolf. I'm like, hey, that's it. I love that alliteration. We've got that. It's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all this stuff. I really appreciate you sharing and educating everybody who's listening. It's been a pleasure having you on. Thanks so much, Jessica. I appreciate it. And that was episode 308 with the amazing Parween Mander. You can find her at the wealthy wolf and wolf has an E at the end.ca. You can also just go to the show notes to find more information about her and all the links where you can connect with her at Jessica Morehouse.com

slash 308. You can also follow her on Twitter at Parween Mander, very easy, and on Instagram at parween.mander. Again, just go to the show notes. I have everything linked, so it's very easy for you to find her and possibly book a one-on-one coaching call with her. So lots of things to share with you, so do not go away. Stick around. I have just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor, and then I will be right back. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Motley Fool Canada. Interested in leveling up your stock market knowledge and skills? Want to dip your toes into investing in individual stocks by taking a methodical get rich slowly approach? Then consider signing up to Stock Advisor Canada. I've personally been a member for two years now,

and I'll tell you why as a loud and proud index investor I signed up. Because they are all about playing the long game. You won't see them promoting hot stocks you can flip for a supposed quick profit. They are focused on educating Canadians about long-term stock investing, and even recommend holding stocks for at least five years because, as we all know, patience is an investor's greatest asset. Not only does membership include buy and sell recommendations, weekly updates, special reports, and member forums, it also has their premium hub with members-only live streams, exclusive videos, and more. So no matter if you want to start investing in stocks or just improve your overall investing knowledge, consider joining over 70,000

of your fellow Canadian investors today by signing up to Stock Advisor Canada. And if you visit fool.ca slash Jessica, you can save 66% off your membership. Once again, to sign up and get 66% off, visit fool.ca slash Jessica. Okay, so first things first, reminder, there's only a few more weeks left of this show. And that means there's only, you know, limited time for you to enter to win a copy of one of the books that I'm giving away. So reminder, giving away a copy of all the books that have been featured on this season of the show. If you go to Jessica Morehouse.com slash contest, you can find all of the books, you can enter to win all of them, you will only win one. But you can enter to win. So you've got lots of chances. And honestly, there's not a huge group of people

that have entered these contests. The odds are in your favor. So make sure to go to jessicamorez.com slash contest to find out what all of those books are and enter to win and good luck. And also it's fun to get a package in the mail. Who doesn't love a package in the mail? From yours truly. Actually, it will be from my sister, but, but Hey, that's kind of cool too she's a connection to me so why not um anyways uh let's see what else do i have to share with you oh yeah so big thing that you'll definitely want to know about is you know hey i have got an investing course um and you're going to want to uh take the the last few weeks uh out of this year to apply because I will be raising the price in the new year. So if you go to jessicamorhouse.com slash WBB, you can also just go to the show notes for

this episode, jessicamorhouse.com slash 308. You can find the link to the landing page. But yeah, so Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. It is a course that really takes you through the fundamentals of investing all the way to the end, where I show you specifically how to build your own investment plan and portfolio. So you can be an index investor like myself and like I have talked about ad nauseum. Is it at nauseum or ad nauseum? Well, I'm just going to keep both of those in and you can choose which one is right for you. Anyways, if you want to, you know, participate in passive investing and you know really start building your wealth well i've got a course for you obviously this is specifically for canadians but uh if you're a canadian listening this might be something that you're interested in because

man are there a lot of courses out there that are for americans so if you're looking for something specific about canadians so we can talk about canadian taxation and registered accounts and canadian products and all that kind of stuff yeah i've got all that good stuff in the course so jessicamorris.com slash wBB is where you can find more information about that and to apply. Let's see, what else do I have for you? I feel like those are the main things I you know, like I'm just kind of wrapping things up at this point. Let's see, where are we in? I'm just recording this obviously in advance. So spoiler. Oh, yeah, I think right today, I'm actually on a plane to Vancouver to see my family for the

holidays which hi so excited because I have not been able I didn't you know wasn't able to to have the holiday you know that we usually have me and my husband with our families last year because the pandemic we're luckily able to see our families this summer but we had to do Christmas alone last year and years and you know how you know how it wasn't sad. We had to, you know, we made the best of it, but it's not the same, you know, it's just not the same. So I'm so freaking excited to be back home for the holidays. I hope you are too. I'm very, you know, I hope you're able to hang out with friends and family during this, you know, the holiday season. And yeah, anyways, that's all I have to, to share with you. Nothing, nothing else.

Um, oh yeah. Besides hello tomorrow, I have a bonus episode for you that you're not going to want to miss. It is also, um, on, uh, I've got a great guest about investing. We're going to dive deep. It's going to be good. It's going to be a good one. I'm really excited that I have this guest on the show actually. So I'm pretty stoked.

Um, so yeah, so just check back here tomorrow. But otherwise, you know, a big thank you for listening and a huge shout out to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout. And yeah, I'll see you back here tomorrow for a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast. See you then. This podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network find out more at women in media.network