More Money Podcast - 318 Why You Should Ask More Questions About Your Money - Lisa Hannam, Executive Editor of MoneySense Magazine

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Calling all Gen Zs, this is the episode for you! I’m so happy to welcome today’s guest on the podcast today since I’ve been an avid reader of MoneySense Magazine for over a decade. Lisa Hannam, the Executive Editor for the digital magazine, joins me today to share what Gen Z should be looking out for when it comes to getting personal finance advice.  Lisa Hannam has worked in publishing as a journalist and editor for 17 years. She is a leading force in the success of MoneySense, creating some of the publication's most viewed and sought-after content. She writes and edits popular articles about personal finance, insurance, banking, investing, practical money tips, and more. In this episode, Lisa and I talk about why you should always question the sources of the financial advice you follow and how the tone of personal finance education has changed for the better. We also discuss why understanding how your values play into how you manage your money. Lisa was such a great guest and so I know you’ll love this episode! For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/318 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 318 of the show. And we're in the month of March. How did that happen? How is January and February already over? Wait, was it March last week? Yes, it was. Time is flying by and I don't even know what's going on. I don't know what's going on with the world. I don't know what's going on with my schedule. It's just been a lot. There's a lot going on as I feel like I've shared over the past couple weeks and kind of the intros and outros of my episodes. But anyways, this episode is not about me, Jessica, you know, get your stuff together. This is a time for me to share an episode, an interview with someone who knows

their stuff when it comes to money. And today is no different. I have the wonderful Lisa Hanema on the show. She is the executive editor at one of my favorite publications, Money Sense magazine. I have been reading Money Sense. Yeah, for sure. for like over a decade. I'm sure it's like, you know, yeah, I'm sure it's been, and that just means I'm old. That means I am old. Oh my gosh, now I'm going to have a crisis. It is one of my favorite go-to places. And I've been reading some of those same authors for years and years and years. Honestly, whenever I'm doing research for something, for example, I get, you know, good DMS and emails all the time from, you know, listeners and just people will find me who

have a question. And, you know, I always like doing my research and kind of, you know, providing, you know, resources to these people. And Money Sense is always one of my favorite go to's. And so I'm very excited to have Lisa on the show. So a little bit more about Lisa, like I mentioned, she is the executive editor of Money Sense magazine, which is Canada's most trusted lifestyle brand about all things money. And Money Sense helps over 450,000 Canadians every single month with personal finance, insurance, investing, and more. And she's personally worked in publishing as a journalist and editor for 17 years. And she is the leading force in the success of Money Sense, creating some of the publication's most viewed and sought after content. And she writes and edits

popular articles about personal finance, insurance, banking, investing, practical money tips, and more. And for this episode, we're gonna, well, we go kind of everywhere, but we do kind of talk a little bit about kind of the evolution of personal finance content and just how, you know, I kind of share in the episode how much has changed in terms of kind of the tone, the messaging, and just kind of what people are sharing in terms of money compared to like 10 years ago. It's very different. It's fascinating. And also what are some of the kind of tones and messages that we want younger people that kind of, you know, the Gen Z is the younger generation, what do we want them to know?

So yeah, it's gonna be a great episode. You're gonna love it. Before I get to that interview with Lisa, here's just a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by TurboTax Canada. It's another tax season, but things are going to be a bit different for many Canadians this year. For instance, did you know that 60% of Canadians started a side hustle in 2021? As someone who started her first side hustle a decade ago, then made it into her full-time gig, I love hearing things like this. But it could also be why I've been bombarded with tax questions over the past 12 months. Let me be real with you. If you have a side hustle on top of your day job, or if you've recently become your own boss, well, your taxes will be a bit more complicated than normal. But

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20 years, visit TurboTax.ca. Once again, visit TurboTax.ca to get started. Welcome, Lisa, to the More Money Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you on since i'm a huge fan of money sense so i'm so glad glad that you are uh you know being a guest on the show finally oh thank you so much i guess it's kind of a fan party because i've been following you personally for a little while now too so hands all around yay yeah i think i mentioned before i hit the record button i and this it just goes to show how quickly time flies, but also how old I am. I've been reading Money Sense for over a decade at least. And I'm like, how did that happen?

And it's definitely, right? Like, how did that happen? But also, I feel like Money Sense has changed so much since I first started reading it. I remember reading it in my 20s and being like, this is interesting information. Can't relate to most things like retirement withdrawal strategies. I am not there yet. I have no money in my bank account. So I feel like what I've seen over the years is there's so much more diversity in terms of the writers. It's not just a not, you know, there's still white men, but it's not just white men. Like there's a there's a lot of different writers and perspectives. But also, I feel like it is becoming a little bit more accessible for younger people. And that's

why I wanted to have you on the show to really talk about because I mean, geez, I I'm older now. I'm a millennial. Millennial isn't cool anymore. I just watched this show, this comedy show called Hacks, which is a really great show. But there's like the main one of the main characters who's like the younger woman and like the older woman comedian was like, oh, you millennial. She's like, you millennial. They're like 40. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I'm not. I'm like, oh, my gosh So now like millennial doesn't really mean young anymore. Now there's a whole new generation of younger people, Gen Z. But I think it's great because I feel like a lot of the content that I see on Money Sense is kind of catered to everybody

at every different stage of life. But anyways, before we kind of kick things off, so you're the executive editor of Money Sense magazine. Do you want to kind of kick things off, so you're the executive editor of Money Sense magazine. Do you want to kind of share a little bit more about how did you kind of get to that point and maybe share a little bit more about your own personal finance journey? Yeah, for sure. Actually, so my background isn't in personal finance, it's in journalism. So that's my route to Money Sense. And so, yeah. So it's funny you say that about like, as women, what we think about personal finance and stuff, because I remember being really shy in my interview and almost like second guessing what I knew about personal finance and then

being asked to rate myself between like zero and 10. And I was like, so zero being I'm totally in debt and 10 being like, I'm a certified financial planner. And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was like, I'm probably around a four. And then they were like, explain why. And then I went through my retirement savings, why I wanted to get like a rental property, how I didn't trust my industry and have this emergency funds account. And then at the end of it, they were like, you're actually a lot higher than you think, which is rare in an interview, right? But yeah. Yeah. You never get like positive reinforcement. But yeah, it's funny. We do sort of second guess ourselves with money and

yeah, confidence around it. It's a funny, tricky thing, isn't it? Oh yeah. I'm still, I like, I feel like so many people, like I just had a conversation with someone who was in their early twenties the other day and she's like, oh, you're so confident. I'm like, well, to be fair, I've been studying this for 10 years, but also I, it's like, I don't, I question myself constantly. And that's kind of like the exciting part about personal finance is there's always something new to learn. But then also there's a moment, and I remember doing it like this Instagram reel like a while ago about just like the feeling of understanding something and then reading an article or some other perspective. And then

you question every single thing that you know. And you like oh my god do i know anything at all because this kind of throws everything out the window it's that constantly so that's it's yeah it's never like you get to a point i mean maybe some people feel like this but you would think after 10 years and interviewing hundreds of people on this podcast over the course of you know almost seven years that i'd be like oh yeah i'm super confident like I'm like, absolutely not. Why do you think I'm continuing to learn? I'm trying to get my CFP just so I can try to get that confidence or build up that confidence constantly.

It's never there. Yeah, the imposter syndrome, right? Yeah, it never really goes away. I mean, it's definitely dissipated, but it's still always there. So with that, I guess, like how have you kind of been able to manage that being like the executive editor at Money Sense? Yeah, so this is my second position at Money Sense. I was the managing editor previous to that. Yeah, and so I've pretty much had every touchpoint on MoneySense.ca.

Just to clarify, we're no longer a print magazine. Yeah. I mean, fair enough. had every touch point on money sense.ca. Just to clarify, we're no longer a print magazine. Yeah. I mean, fair enough. A little while ago. You know what? I can't remember the last time I bought a print anything. Like everything I do is digital these days. So that makes sense. It's true. It's true. I still love print, mind you. But yeah, I just wanted to clarify that there's no printed magazine. But yeah, money sense.ca, we have like over 700,000 users a month coming to us asking questions, finding out how to do things like you said, with like withdrawals, or we have how to's on pretty much anything and everything. And if we don't, there's definitely a question for about to be answered. Yeah, I mean, I think that some of the things that I love reading are the kind of real life scenarios of people being like, this is my situation. What are your, you know, what's your piece of advice? Or can you break this down? Like, honestly, like, as I say, I'm always researching things, because, you know, I get questions all the time. And sometimes I'm like, I need to verify

this with like three legitimate sources to make sure that I'm giving you the right information. And Money Sense is always like a resource that I, you know, often go to. And there's lots of familiar names since I've been reading it for so long, which I really appreciate. But I always find it's comforting knowing just what other people are doing with their money. And then also getting confirmation that you know what you're like, you're like, oh, good, that advice that's being given. That's what I would have said too thank goodness I know what I'm talking about I'm impressed that you fact check and check three sources that's oh 100% I mean maybe that again that goes back to my like the confidence imposter syndrome like I my worst fear is someone being like that's incorrect so I'm always like haunts every time get it, like a question, like a DM, or sometimes I do

like my, you know, Instagram, ask me anything's a 100%. If I get a question, even if I know the answer, I will triple check it just so if someone is like, Are you sure? Because I mean, I don't know if you experience this. But as a woman in finance, I'm constantly asked on the other side of things like, Are you sure? Why should I trust you? Why should I listen to you? I always make sure I've got my facts and I got my references and all that kind of stuff. That's amazing. Yeah. As a journalist, I can appreciate the fact check process. Yeah. I mean, you've got to really. Yeah. I'm actually kind of curious, you know, with your experience being a woman journalist, but also in finance, do you feel, you know, whatever kind of what's your experience been like? Like, you know, one thing that I've probably shared a lot on the podcast is I think the hardest part of being in the financial space is being a woman and constantly questioned, whereas I know lots of my male counterparts are not, which is why I have more credentials than them.

As a journalist, I think like questions are good and not necessarily like in the way that you're framing them with like you being questioned in your role. But I think just the thought that people are asking, why should I trust you? I think that's good. I think that we always should be asking questions, whether it's like phoning up your credit card company and saying, why is this on my bill? To what are your credentials? Like, I think these like, no one, we always think when we ask a question that we're giving vulnerability that we don't know something, but actually you're making the other person accountable to make themselves credible. Absolutely. And that's the thing that I'm also like, you know, I do my own research, but sometimes there's like, I was just battling this one thing.

I could not find one resource that like basically gave me the answer in the wording that, you know, to really be like, this is the answer fundamentally. And so I actually, luckily, I do know lots of people in like the financial sphere. So I, you know, emailed someone who's high up at a financial services company. And I'm like, hey, here's my scenario, I cannot find a firm answer. And I've asked a few other people. And it was actually kind of like a relief to kind of just kind of ask someone else who who would be able to kind of see it from a different perspective. So yeah, no, I totally agree. Asking questions is super, super important. I wanted to kind of shift gears, talking a little bit more about young people, especially

like, you know, like I mentioned, I started reading Money Sense, you know, probably at a very young age compared to most people, because, you know, not everyone likes to just read that in the break room when they're in university, but that's what I was doing, you know, at work and whatnot. But, you know, what is your kind of sense, you know, getting questions from, you know, Gen Z and just seeing what they're struggling with, you know, as someone who's a bit older than Gen Z, what do you think, like, are there lots of similarities that you see from your kind of your life experience? Or, you know, one thing I've been kind of sharing a lot and you know having conversations with people in their 20s is the pandemic obviously is going to be a huge impact on the rest of their lives but it reminds

me a lot of you know the you know recession and the 2008 market crash and how that impacted my life and actually impacted it for the better because it actually what's you know kind of drew me into the world of personal finance. I'm curious what your kind of thoughts are, just hearing some of the concerns and struggles that people in their 20s are dealing with. I think one thing that is open to every generation is the idea of like living with your parents and going to school. And then all of a sudden you're out on your own and you have to either pay rent or you're saving up for a down payment or you have to pay back your student loans. I feel like you go from like nothing to all of a sudden like you have credit card, you're paying for everything and

you suddenly learn that life is expensive. So I feel like that jumps from generation to generation and it is a wake-up, I think, for many people, because there's no gradual way to get into it, right? You're either on your own or you're not, right? So I think that's one thing that definitely does go from generation to generation. But I do think the one difference is nowadays is I feel like this generation is a lot smarter than I was. Oh, yeah. They're really smart. Yeah. Like I remember when I was considering like creating RRSPs for myself and I went to the bank and I just, we did that risk assessment and then they were like, okay, you fall into this bucket. And then

I was like, okay, just take this much out a week or on my payday. And then I left it. I had no idea what was in it. All I know is that someone told me gold is good and to make sure that there was gold in it. But like with social media, there's definitely a good segment of this generation that knows what they're investing in, that wants like sustainable investments, they they they're looking into crypto as like a future investment as opposed to like a buy now and sell it you know what i mean like i just they're a really really smart um group of people for sure yeah i wonder too because yeah i find yeah a lot of their level of financial literacy is is like miles ahead of where i was you know

back when i was there and it could be be just, there's more information, there's more resources, or because they have had computers and the internet for so much longer, they know how to do this research a lot easier. Like I remember, you know, Google was relatively new when I was in my 20s. And so it wasn't like a normal thing to like, oh, if I don't have the question, or't have the answer I can go to google and reddit and all these other resources and do my own due diligence whereas yeah when I was in my 20s like that wasn't really a thing like you'd yeah you'd go to the library to you know like for all my essays like you'd go to the library and check out books and that's what you would use as your resources and stuff like that so I feel like yeah the younger generation are just a little bit more they have the the habit of asking, you know, questions, which I think is great.

And yeah, kind of doing their own due diligence a bit more, which gives me a little bit, like, honestly, it gives me a lot of hope. Because one thing I have been hearing for years and years and years, especially people in their 30s, 40s and up is, you know, we never learned this stuff in school. I feel like I'm starting from scratch I wish I learned this earlier and I'm hoping that this will not be as big of an issue like in terms of like just lack of financial literacy for younger generations yeah for sure for sure I'm definitely learning some things too from like people that you follow on social too right and it almost then it goes the other end as well right where like people are showing on

social like what things to buy and then you don't hear about that again for a while so I think asking more that's where asking more questions comes into play because you'll follow these uh finfluencers is that what they're called yeah I think they are It makes you cringe a little bit. And so they'll be like, I bought this yesterday and look how it went up. But when it goes down, are they coming back to ensuring, like you said with you, that you have your credit, that they have their credentials and that they are reporting the good as well as the bad. Because if we've learned anything from the last two years, there's good and bad in everything, right? When it comes to the economy and the stock market and our money. No, absolutely. I mean, one thing I've seen, and even talking to some of these influencers over the past few years, like basically, if you want to become successful in the influencer space and grow your following and stuff like that, you have to talk about certain little bit more speculative or things like that, like things that just get or kind of a little bit more clickbaity, a little bit more interesting,

like there's this one YouTuber that I know personally, and I loved his channel because it was very more educational. He had like a whiteboard and he did the kind of and you can kind of see as his channel has grown and it really has grown significantly, just the tone and the topics he's choosing are definitely different he's definitely kind of trying to cater towards growth continuing to grow his channel and so that's the other thing to kind of keep in mind is just like the people that may have the biggest reach just pay attention to kind of their tone their messaging what they're actually sharing some of the resources that I love online generally don't

have like the biggest following I mean to be fair to you I even had some conversations because you know I feel like there's a difference between being a podcaster being a blogger being a youtuber being an Instagram person you know a blogging like that's where I started blogging and I think a lot of younger generations like oh blogs people still do that I like, oh, my gosh. So it's you've got to just pay attention to who is giving this information? What are they saying? And then, yeah, kind of, you know, again, it's about doing your due diligence and making sure can I trust this, you know, resource or or what is their kind of, you know, motivation? I feel like when I was in my 20s, the main thing you had to look out for were financial advisors or people who were selling you products. And, you know, did they have your, you know, best interests at heart? Or were they really just focused on making a commission? And

now you have to look out for that as well. Still, that still exists. But now you also have to look out to like, who am I getting this information for free online from? And can I trust it? Are they selling me something? Are they not giving all the information? Or like you said, are they, you know, talking about investing in something and then never actually following up with how did it do over time and all that kind of stuff. Got to keep them, I guess we've got just to have more accountability, I think is kind of the thing that I see lacking in the online space. I think one thing too, when it comes to people who are successful in this space is their compelling story. So sometimes it's not about a financial professional as much as it's

like about someone you may relate to and, and you're learning along with them. So, but what comes along with that though, is you could make mistakes along with them too. Right. So yeah. Yeah, exactly. Cause they're still learning. And yeah, I mean, that's kind of, I think how I fell into blogging is I loved reading blogs of people sharing their journey. And that's how I started my blog too, is like, I'm just learning this stuff on my own and, you know, follow me along. But I certainly never told do this, don't do that. Cause I'm like, I'm just learning. I'm trying to figure this out. But so it's, it's interesting to follow someone that you can kind of relate to, but yeah, also make sure it's like, just be careful. Cause they're, you know,

they're not an expert or they might make a mistake. And so again, it's always important. I think the other thing too, is one thing I see, you know, I get questions all the time is, is people are looking for like, Hey, can you tell me, should I do this? Or should I do that? Like people are looking for advice. And I think instead of, you know, looking for like hey can you tell me should i do this or should i do that like people are looking for advice and i think instead of you know looking for like you know finding a financial planner or someone who can look at your particular situation to give you uh tailored advice people just like want to do it on their own looking online but again it's like you can do as much research as you want online but but no one would be able to give you actual proper advice because they don't know every single thing under the hood in your own financial life. And I think that's something that's another thing that you've got to recognize.

I feel like I only really understand this now as I've continued to learn and I've gotten credentials and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, it's like every time someone asks me something, I'm like, well, it depends because I don't know all of your information. And, you know, I could be missing a really important element that could, you know, lead me to a different solution for you. For sure. For sure. I also think values come into play as well in like what you value. Because we think of money as like currency, which it is, but the value of what you own and where you want to put your money actually comes from you and where you want to see yourself in the future or even now. So I think you have to ask yourself too questions about like, what you value in your money and what you want in your lifestyle and how those two things tie

together. And that can, that helps a lot even with debt or, um, investing or even saving for retirement or an emergency savings fund. Um, yeah. No, absolutely. I'm curious. So, um, you know, now that you, you know, work for MoneySense, and I'm sure a big part of your job is just staying, you know, up to date with everything, but you know, you've have all this experience to being a journalist, I'm curious, what, you know, would you be able to like, it sounds like you're generally like, you're always pretty good with your money, which is great. That's, you know, what we kind of sounds like what was revealed in that interview, which is awesome. Is there anything, when you look back to yourself

in your twenties that you wish you would be able to tell them now, like, oh, I wish you did this, or something that you would tell someone listening to this who is younger? I think just pointing back to that story about when I was at the bank, getting my RSPs and just asking more questions about like where my money was going. Because to be honest, like I trusted them because I felt like with the risk assessment that they knew where I should put my money.

And it's probably the case even now, but the way we invest now is totally different. So like are the investments part of my value system? Like that, that didn't even cross my mind at that age, but I, but I would, I would go back and tap myself on the shoulder in that waiting room and be like, you might want to ask about a few things. Yeah. And I think that's the frustrating thing too, is you kind of expect if you're working with a professional that they would bring these things up, that they would, be like hey have you thought about this but they won't that's always been the most frustrating thing I think about um you know what I do is that part of the reason that

I fell into this career of like educating Canadians about personal finance is because a lot of people in the actual financial services industry are not doing that. And they're, they're really, they have their specific role. And a lot of that is to do with selling products. But it's, it's up to us, unfortunately, to learn this stuff. So we know what questions we need to ask, which is super frustrating, because shouldn't it be the reverse? It's like, if you are hiring someone or working with an advisor, that really should be something that they do and actually it should be because again like that's part of the reason I'm training to become a CFP is just I want to know what these people are learning and yeah in their teachings it is they are supposed to bring this

stuff up but in my personal experience and talking to so many people over these years a lot of it isn't and it means it's like ultimately if you want to have a bright financial future, unfortunately, it is up to you. I mean, there's that saying, or it's like personal finances, personal, but also no one cares more about your money than you do. And unfortunately, that still rings true. No one will, you know, like, ultimately, if you want to have, you know, success with your money, you have to do the heavy lifting. For sure. And even if like you don't have the research done, ask. Like there's no reason why you can't say why is this happening or should this be this case or you know what I mean? Like even if it's general like that or if you want to get even more specific, like you've done a bit of

research on like your account or the product that you're buying and you're like asking specifics about different allocations and stuff like you should always have a when you're in every meeting, you should always leave with answers, even if you don't go in with those questions, come out with more. Yeah, but yeah, that's kind of why it's so important to like for me, it's like I have this personal finance podcast. And I realized some people are going to be more interested in this topic than others. But what sucks about it is like, everyone really should know this stuff. And this is what I hope to, you know, do is to continue to this podcast for years and years and years. So eventually, someone will maybe, you know, accidentally stop by and hear something that kind of relates to them because like that's the thing it's like yeah not everyone has to be as obsessed with like personal finance and all the other things to do with financial planning as I do but everyone does need to know how to like what does the financial plan mean and what do I need to do in my own life because we all you know like

I've said on the show so many times we all earn money we all spend money we all you know need to invest our money we need to know how we all spend money, we all, you know, need to invest our money, we need to know how to properly manage our money, which means, unfortunately, you have to learn how to do this, which is kind of like the same thing as like, you know, we all need to be healthy. And, well, we're adults. And so that's really up to us. So we need to learn how to be healthy, how to eat healthy, how to, you know, exercise and, you know, take care of our bodies and also our mental health and things like that. We need to learn how to do you know, exercise and, you know, take care of our bodies and also our mental health and things like that. We need to learn how to do that and maintain that. So yeah, as you know, not fun as money management may sometimes be, because not everything about it is super exciting.

We all have to learn this and apply it, which is, yeah, it's hard because it's I think a lot of people still think that personal finance is like a niche thing. Yeah, which is, yeah, that's weird that it should not be a niche thing at all. No, it affects us all. It really does affect us all. I'm curious, you know, when it comes to people who are younger, what are some really important things that they should pay attention to? I know there's so many articles on Money Sense, but what are some things that, you know, if anyone's listening, you want to make sure that they know that they're taken care of right now in their lives?

Yeah, I think, like I said earlier, like the whole idea of this being the first time in your life that you're going to be dealing with debt. I think understanding that you can save as well as pay off debt at the same time is like super important because even so I went into journalism, which was a funny time to go into journalism only because there was a lot of places shutting down and many people that I worked with, some people ended up unemployed at some point. So for me, I was like, I didn't want to ever be in a position where I couldn't leave a job on my own terms. So I made sure that I would, I had like three years salary. Oh, wow. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly because like it was so volatile. And if I wanted to go

freelance, for example, like you want to give it a couple of years to make sure that you can like go freelance. So that was always in my mind as well. So I think understanding like when you're having a house that you have some credit card debt, hopefully not too much, but that you are putting away money just in case, because there are things that we can't control. And but saving is one of those things that we can control. So just looking ahead to make sure that you have that money there. Absolutely. I guess another thing that I, you know, is obviously like a huge struggle that I see with people in their 20s is trying to balance all of their different priorities like I feel like honestly it gets so much easier now that I'm in my 30s I feel like things are a lot less intense and there's a lot

less things that I need to kind of worry about um and so that's always you know something I tell people you're younger I'm like it gets better I promise your 30s sometimes can be kind of better than your 20s just because you feel a bit more settled and all that kind of stuff. But I think you're just battling so many things like you've got student loan debt, you want to start saving that emergency fund, you know, you should start to invest and save for retirement. Oh, you also have to buy a house and all these expectations, the society and your parents have on you, there's a lot that you have to juggle. What would you kind of say to someone, you know, kind of in that analysis paralysis stage

where they just don't even know where to start because there's so many things that they know they need to start doing right away? No, for sure. I want to preface too that three-year salary as a journalist is not unreachable. When you're starting out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, for sure. I think just understanding that your money is fluid and just as easily as you can spend it, you can save it. So the first thing that I did, even when I went to the bank and got my RRSPs, it was like I made sure that it came out on payday so that I didn't notice it leaving my account. And then if I got a raise or something, then I would boost up that savings so that my lifestyle didn't have to

change, but like I could still save a little bit more. Now I sound like I was probably really cheap and like bare bones, but don't, I did treat myself to things like I traveled and everything like that. But just having that strategy of being aware of where your money is and not blindly spending it, but blindly saving it really helped me. Yeah. I mean, that's why I feel like one of the best things that I ever did for myself all those years ago when I was like 24 and moved out on my own for the first time was download some, you know, Excel budget spreadsheet from one of the banks, and then I kind of tailored it, you know, made my own kind of version that made more sense in my mind. And then I, you know, evolved that spreadsheet over, you know, a decade. And it's something that I've kept up for all those years. And really, like you said, it's what it's meant for is to have a clear picture of like,

how much is coming in and how much is going out. And I think that's even that like simple, you know, practice of figuring that out. Most people, I'd say most Canadians don't have an idea of what's coming in, what's coming out. And so how can you make plans for your money if you don't have that data? And then on top of that, really, you know, getting into a habit. I know most people hate this, but honestly, it really is a game changer is tracking your money. So not just like having a plan for, you know, how much income and what are, you know, fixed expenses and are variable expense, you know, estimates, but also like tracking like what's actually happening, like how much are we actually spending? Because if you don't have that, then you really like one of the biggest regrets is not tracking that throughout my 20s. It's only when I turned 30, I started doing that. I have no idea. Like I have budgets and I stuck with them pretty closely. But I have no evidence for like what my net worth was at any point in time and where my money was. I have no idea what happened in my 20s. going to be really crucial information to help you make other financial decisions to be like, can we afford to go on this trip? Can we afford to move across the country? Can we afford to,

you know, actually look at properties to buy? No, for sure. For sure. I think one thing too, that I did when I was in my twenties was I calculated how many hours I would have to work to. Oh yeah. I was, I was going to school and I was working at a fast food restaurant. And I didn't love working there. But I was like, OK, this is do what will I work 10 hours to buy this? Yeah. Not that much. Right. Which fast food? I used to work at a fast food place too. Where'd you work? I worked at KFC for like too long. Yeah. I used to work at A&W and it felt like for too long. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know what though? I actually don't have bad memories of working there. Probably because it's funny where my A&W was, it was right across the street from a McDonald's. And so that place was always so busy.

And it was never that busy at my work. So it was actually a pretty great gig. Sometimes I did homework at work. It was great. That's so funny. No, I worked all through high school and all through university. So that's a long, long time. That's a long time. Hey, I mean, I feel like it's those times that when I look back at all of the variety of jobs I had in high school and university, and they were all minimum wage, they were all, you know, not great. But I remember, yeah, doing the same thing as you being like, you know, I used to work at a clothing store. I don't know if you remember this Canadian store called Jacob or Jacob Connection.

Yeah. I'm so sad when it closed down. I really liked it. They had great clothes. And so I worked there for a few years in university. And of course, like so many, I can't tell you how many jobs I've had that actually literally closed down. Worked at Blockbuster, worked at Jacobs, so many people, like companies I worked for went

bankrupt. But it was one of those things like working in the clothing store, you're looking at all these clothes all the time. And of course, you get your store discount. I would always, you know, and everyone I worked with, they'd always just like spend most of their paycheck just on the clothes. I would always do the same thing, calculate, well, how many hours would I have to work in order to get that shirt,

even if it's on sale. And that really makes you think about that. Or even like now I don't quite do that because I'm self-employed. So it's not quite hourly, but I always talk about, okay, we've got this budget. And if I'm to, you know, I've got my little savings buckets, my little strategy. If I'm going to buy this thing today, that means I can't buy this other thing I want. Now I'm gonna have to wait until the future. So I do I really want it. So you're always kind of

playing some sort of game with yourself to be like, do I need this right now? And what am I giving up? And what am I delaying in order to, you know, have this right now, you're always going to be asking yourself these questions kind of for the rest of your life. But I think they're good practices to instill in yourself. For sure. We've come full circle because now you're asking yourself the value of what it is that you want and if you really want it at all. Yeah. And a lot of the time, I'm telling you, a lot of the time you buy the thing that you've been like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm going to love this. You forget immediately that you bought it, you know, and it's sometimes the thing that you've been like, oh, I'm going to love this. You forget immediately that you bought it.

And it's sometimes the things that didn't cost that much money or weren't that big of a deal. There's the things that you cherish for a long time. Like one of the things I'm like, I bought my crock pot like, I don't know, like 10 years ago and I still really love it. There's other appliances I have. I'm like, I've never used that. It's so true.

So true. Which is why I'm not going to get an air fryer just because all the hypes about air fryer, I'm not going to do it. I know I'm not going to use that. I'm never going to use that. Just like the Instant Pot. I gave it away. Used it once. Scared me. I didn't like it. Anything you have to put in a cupboard, I'm not into because I'm like, once I put it in the cupboard, I'm never pulling it out again. Right? Yeah. You're like, where'd that thing go? Out of sight, out of mind. It's not going to work out. not gonna work out so yeah but yeah it'll be just as good yeah absolutely one thing i you know just to kind of uh end things off the other kind of thing which i love and i've talked about this on the show a

lot is the tone of personal finance education i feel like has changed a lot in the past 10 15 years which i think is great and similar to you you, like, you know, a big focus, I think, on personal finance, especially of importance to younger people is like the values is also just like the, yeah, the overall tone and how we kind of talk about money. Before it was very much like do this, do this black, it was very kind of black and white. You know, debt was bad, all this kind of it was it was a bit intense, if I'm honest. And that's, I feel like things I've had to unlearn in my 20s because they weren't helpful as I got older because they make you feel, you know, kind of negative emotions like guilt or shame or things like that.

A trend I've been seeing, and I think this is definitely what I've been seeing that, you know, younger people want, is the overall tone of like mindfulness positivity and how to use sorry i keep on banging my microphone how to use uh money for good right so it's not just you know sustainable investing which is great but also just like everything that we touch where is like you know we're choosing to buy things but who is attached to that thing what uh ceo What company? And are they doing good for the world? I feel like we're becoming a lot more conscious consumers, but also having, you know, the perspective more that money can be a tool for good. And it's not such a, you know, a thing that, oh, you're not doing this good enough, you're not being frugal enough, or etc, etc. I don't know if you feel the

same way. But that's definitely kind of the sentiment I've been seeing over the past few years yeah for sure I know at money sense like when we um address like reader questions um within our content we definitely don't come at it with the tone of like you don't deserve something you know what I mean like there's no like you shouldn't buy a coffee every day. If you want to buy a coffee every day. Yeah, the latte factor. I think we need to put that whole thing to rest. I want my coffee, damn it.

No, just kidding. Yeah, it's true though, right? Yeah, and just understanding that our people who are sending us questions have a whole value system that goes beyond what that question is. So, and being respectful of that, like you said, that what the person is inquiring about is a part of their whole financial livelihood, I guess, for lack of a better word. But so yeah, we try to come at our answers with very multi-layered responses and just really coming at it from all corners.

So yeah, we definitely are part of that trend that you're noticing. Hopefully we're leading it as well. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's something that I appreciated as I've gotten older too and have younger audiences following me is seeing the kind of evolution of personal finance information and journalism. Because yeah, back the day, it really was just like, don't do this or do this. And if you're doing this, then you're doing it wrong. And, you know, I'm like, okay, well, this doesn't, you know, motivate me to keep learning because I feel

ashamed of what I don't know. It's, we should be, you know, encouraging people to learn what they don't know and ask questions and empowering them. I think that's another kind of term I've been seeing a lot over the past few years is we want to feel empowered with our lives and our finances, but empower each other. Because how else are we going to have like sustained, you know, wealth, but also just like continue to want to learn and then keep up with all the trends. My gosh, there's so many new things that have popped up in terms of like technology and just, you know,

strategies and things like that. So we need to, yeah, kind of come at it from I think a different perspective, which I think is, for me, I'm really excited because it's like, I found it really difficult entering this world in my 20s because it didn't seem very inviting, but I feel like it's kind of opening up

and it's a lot more, much more inviting kind of a space now. Yeah, hopefully for sure. Even to, we remove emotion too from our articles. Like we don't, everyone has debt. So to feel unique that you have debt isn't helpful. Do you know what I mean? So in order to understand the strategies to overcome it or to pay it off, you really have to understand that the emotion isn't a part of it because everyone is affected by it. And so all of our content is written in that way of just providing strategy and not being like, oh, sorry that you're in this situation. And it must be frustrating that you're in this. So none of our articles are written in that way. I do know of other publications that are, and that works for them. But for us,

we really want the credibility to be within the content and not necessarily being like, you're cool, sister. You know what I mean yeah true fair enough yeah it's like you've got to balance the you know not you know telling someone well you should have known better you know why did you get into debt in the first place but then also you don't want to coddle and be like well it's okay you can be in debt that's not a problem it's like where's the balance we need to be like okay we don't want to make you feel bad about your situation, but we also want to motivate you to take action and to improve your situation. Because yeah, being in debt, as an example, is not a place that anyone wants to stay in.

It's a situation that you're in right now. We want to find a solution so you don't have to be in debt anymore, though. For sure. For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Empowering. You want this information to empower you to make

decisions that will make a positive impact on your life. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, before I let you go, where can people, you know, find more information about you or, you know, Money Sense? Where are some, you know, places where they can find some resources that they can maybe continue to educate themselves after listening to this episode. I would love if you would all come to moneycents.ca, sign up for our newsletter. So even if you don't want to like go through the website and try and find certain content that you're looking for, sign up for the newsletter.

We can come into your inbox in three different newsletters. We have the weekly, the money fit and our invest newsletters. So yeah, moneycents.ca slash newsletter. Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Lisa, for coming on the show and talking about kind of young money topics. I hope I didn't sound too old. I feel like every time I talk about 20 year olds, I just realized I am not a 20 year old anymore. But I don't feel like it was that long ago. So I appreciate you being on the show to just share all of your wisdom. Thank you so much. It was such a joy to be here.

And that was episode 318 of the More Money Podcast with Lisa Hannum. You can find more information about her specifically at lisahanum.com. You can also follow her on Twitter and Instagram at Lisa Hannum. That is H-A-N-N-A-M. I will, of course, link to her in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 318. And of course, check out Money Sense Magazine at moneysense.ca. Literally, I feel like because it's been around for so long, they just create so much content. If you have a question about anything under the sun, money, they probably have an article. Honestly, like I tell you, like whenever I get a question or as I, you know, add new lessons to my investing

course, you know, doing some research for some of the most obscure questions, sometimes I will have an article pop up from Money Sense that answers that specific question. So anyways, go check it out. Lots of things to share with you. So do not go away. Let me just share a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by TurboTax Canada. So some of you loyal podcast listeners may already know this, but last year I hired my sister to work as my virtual assistant. She has since expanded her virtual assisting business to work with other clients, which makes me beam with pride that there's another entrepreneur in the family. But one thing I forgot about was tax season. This will be her first year doing her taxes as a self-employed person,

which adds on a new level of stress and complexity already inherent in doing your taxes. Luckily, she'll be using TurboTax Assist and Review Self-Employed. This way, she'll get the important experience of filing her first self-employed tax return, but get some much-needed guidance and advice from a qualified tax expert. And as her business grows and her taxes become even more complicated, like mine, she can use TurboTax Full Service Self-Employed. This allows her to hand everything off to a tax expert to do it all for her, saving her valuable time she could instead put towards billing clients or finding new ones. Does this situation hit close to home? Well, it might because 60% of Canadians started the side hustle in 2021, and this will be their first year reporting self-employed income and business

expenses on their tax return. Luckily, no matter your tax situation, TurboTax is here to help. To get a jumpstart on your taxes with TurboTax, Canada's number one tax software trusted by millions of Canadians for over 20 years, visit TurboTax.ca. Once again, visit TurboTax.ca to get started. So speaking of taxes, you know, leading out of that ad for TurboTax, I feel like now is officially tax season, right? I mean, I always kind of get excited for tax season, you know, I love taxes. I don't know why I just find it fascinating. But not enough to become an accountant, though. Not enough to become an accountant. But I, you know, I'm a nerd. And I literally submitted all of my documents to my accountant. And I'm like, ready to go. I'm ready to go. And I'm like already getting things

organized for next year. Like I'm just, it's time. So anyways, if you need some motivation for tax time, I'm your gal. I am your like, what's it called? Hype girl? Hype girl? Is that it? Hype man? Hype man? Whatever. So you uh need some motivation or some inspiration you know email me shoot me a dm tweet me i was gonna say twitter me that's embarrassing tweet me and i'll give you some a little nudge to get your stuff together and get your taxes done i mean if you're an employee working for a company this could mean a tax refund and who doesn't love a tax refund though not to tell you what to do with your money, but, you know, maybe we should invest that money or maybe we should pay off some high interest debt or maybe we should put

that into our emergency fund. I'm just saying there's some great things you can do in that tax refund if you want. Anyways, another thing I'd like to share with you, well, just because, you know, what's been going on, you know, with the world globally and everything like that, I've been getting inundated once again with panic emails and DMs and messages from people freaking out about the stock market and everything like that. This is something that we talk a lot about in my investing course, Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. So here's a message for me. Please just don't panic. Everything's going to be just fine. Remember, I feel like I was having this exact conversation with you, uh, in 2020 when things

were getting crazy and people thought it was the end of the world and then it wasn't and things recovered, um, recovered to, you know, a height even, and you know, higher than pre pandemic time. So remember, this is not special. Things happen. Um, do not panic and do not act on your emotions and your fears. Okay, so everything's gonna be fine. But if you do want to learn more about investing, maybe this is a good opportunity for you to well, I mean, I've got a lot of great episodes. There's

a lot of book recommendations on my website, JessicaMoorhouse.com slash recommendations. But you can also check out my investing course, wealth building blueprint for Canadians. As I've kind of mentioned on some other episodes, I've been doing a little refresh of it for 2020. And I'm just going to say it is even better than it was one year ago. And if you were an original student, you get access to all those updates. And you bought it for a cheaper price because I did have to raise the price because it's been a year and more students are entering into it. So if you're curious about how to to you know, what what is investing all about? What are the fundamentals of investing in Canada specifically, that's where we we put our focus, but also passive investing. So investing in as I talk about a lot on the show, a portfolio of diversified low cost index ETFs. I've got a course that literally is all about that. So

you can find more information on in the show notes, JessicaMoorhouse.com slash 318 or just go to JessicaMoorhouse.com slash WBB. My gosh, Jessica, get your stuff together. I think I've got so many things going on. Like I've mentioned in previous episodes, I've got like my new website coming out soon. I'm tomorrow I am doing my photo shoot to get some new headshots. I you know, work for the stylist because girl, I do not know how to start. I don't know how to dress myself. I'm literally in pajamas all the time. So I'm excited to look like an adult and have some nice, nice, you know, shots of myself looking like I know what I'm doing. And I'm a professional, like wear more than just sweatpants. So many other things down, you know, coming down the

pipe. I say pipe, but I think the right term is pike. But I just say pipe that just makes more sense to me. Things go down pipes. So yeah, so lots of things going on. Lots of things, including me. I don't know if I share it. Did I share this in the last episode? I don't know. Probably did. But hey, I got to 10,000 Instagram followers. I'm now over 10,000 and slowly approaching the 11,000. So if you want to follow me on Instagram, please do. I will be putting out more stuff on my Instagram. Goodness, it's just like there's a lot going on. You know, there's the podcast, there's the YouTube channel, which I have not updated, which I will soon. There's my Instagram, there's just, there's everything going on. But please follow me if you want to at Jessica I Morehouse. That's Yeah, that's where you can find me. I always do like AMAs. Those are kind of fun to do. I do those pretty often. So yeah, that's really I feel like that's all I got. That's all the juice I've got for you today. So thank you so much for listening to this episode. And a big shout out to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout. If yeah, you want to, you know, share, you know, the podcast with a friend, that might be a nice thing that you can do.

Why not? Why not share the knowledge? Anyways, have a good rest of your week. Have an amazing weekend. I'm going to see you back here next Wednesday for a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast. See you then. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.