More Money Podcast - 321 Getting Out of Your Own Way - Joyce Marter, Author and Licensed Psychotherapist

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

The More Money podcast is no stranger to conversations surrounding mental health and in fact I’m always happy to keep that conversation going. In today’s episode licensed psychotherapist Joyce Marter joins me to talk about her new book, The Financial Mindset Fix, and share how it's the new guidebook for getting ahold of your mental health in order to fix your financial wealth.  Joyce Marter has been a licensed psychotherapist for 25 years and has bared witness to how improving your mental health can result in an increase in your financial wealth. She’s also an entrepreneur, a national public speaker, and a mental health thought leader. She is the founder of Urban Balance, a national outpatient mental health company, and the author of The Financial Mindset Fix: A Mental Fitness Program for an Abundant Life. In this week's episode, Joyce shares the correlation between mental health and financial wealth, how her book tackles topics like abundance vs. scarcity mindset, the effects of limiting beliefs and why we need to stop selling ourselves short. It was an absolute pleasure to have Joyce on the podcast and have her share lots of food for thought. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/321 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is episode 321, and I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. For this episode, we're going to be talking a bit about money and mental health, and I have the perfect guest to talk about such a topic. I've got Joyce Marder on the show, so if you're not familiar, you sure will be with this episode. So she runs her own business. She's a licensed psychotherapist, entrepreneur, national public speaker, and a mental health thought leader. And she's also the founder of Urban Balance, a national outpatient mental health company. And also, this is why she's coming on the show and very excited. I'm going to be giving away a copy. She is also the author of The Financial Mindset

Fix, a mental fitness program for an abundant life. So I'm going to be giving away a copy of her book. So make sure to listen all the way to the end to find out how you can enter to win a copy. So I've had guests over the years, I feel like more and more quite honestly, over the years on the podcast to discuss this really important topic of the intersection between personal finance and mental health. This was something that when I was just getting started and starting to learn about, you know, money management, all that kind of stuff. Mental health was never, never discussed. It was always just discussed in the way of like practical things you can do. And, you know, if you're not, you know, in a certain situation, you know, financial situation in your life is because you are responsible for that and all

that kind of stuff. And it never really talked about things like, well, you know, managing money is hard. Psychologically, it is hard. If it were so easy to just take a look at your spending or to create a budget or to start investing young and aggressively, well, guess what? We'd all be millionaires right now. Like, it's not that easy. It's easy in concepts, you know, once you kind of learn the main principles, not easy in taking action. And so that is why I wanted to have Joyce on the show. So I know you're going to love this episode with both of us. Before I get to that episode, I just want to share a few words about this podcast episode sponsor, and then we'll get right to the interview. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Oxio. Have you had it with the big internet providers in Canada? The contracts, constantly shifting prices, and customer service

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are typically lower than the average market price, so switching could mean more money in your pocket. It sure did for me. Want to give it a try too? Just visit oxio.ca and use promo code MOREMONEY to try out Oxio for free for one month. It's as simple as that. Once again, visit oxio.ca, that's O-X-I-O dot C-A, and use promo code MORE more money to try Oxio for free for one month. Thank you so much, Joyce, for coming on the more money podcast. I'm so thrilled to have you want to discuss your book. Thanks for having me, Jessica. Happy to be here. You're so welcome. I think it's a great, a great book for people who want I think, not just another money how-to book, but it really goes deeper. I feel like, and you kind of touched on this in your book, the past couple years, because

of what we've all experienced in the world, I mean, I feel like it's just changed everything, and especially kind of the conversations we're having about money. I've been doing this for a decade now, and no one ever talked about the psychology of money, the emotional side of money, mindset, and all that kind of stuff. Really, up until recently, everyone's now talking about it, which just goes to show how much that is needed. So I'm so excited to have you on the show to discuss it in depth. I agree that the timing is right, that with the pandemic, it's wreaked havoc on our mental health and financial health. And I really care about the relationship between those two and want to provide tools and resources

and strategies to help people promote both. And I think it's the silver lining of the pandemic that people are open to having conversations about psychology and mental health because we've all been impacted. 100%. I mean, I, you know, this rings true just even for me, myself. So once, you know, kind of the beginning of 2020, even before the pandemic actually happened, I, you know, contacted my therapist who I hadn't seen in a number of years and realizing I'm just like, I just felt like, you know, something was different. I think maybe I anticipated things going a certain way. And I'm like, you know what, I think I need,

you know, a tune up or a check in to see what's going on. I've continued to see that therapist now for two years. And it's interesting because it's, you know, we talk about a lot of things, but we do talk, you know, about mindset and money. And a lot of the things I was going through your book, I'm like, oh my gosh, yeah, that's exactly what I've been working on the past couple of years. So I feel like it's so relevant to so many people. But I want to actually start talking a little bit about you and your background. Because again, it's like you wrote a money book, but you're a psychotherapist. Do you want to kind of tell us a little bit about how you got to this point to write this book and develop this program to help others?

Absolutely. Well, first of all, I want to congratulate you for being a smart person seeking a mental health tune-up. I think we all need that at different points in our lives. And that's healthy and proactive and smart and positive. And then also in terms of my background, so I've been a licensed psychotherapist for over 25 years. And in my practice, I started to notice that as my clients made progress in therapy, they started to earn more money. They started to get raises and promotions and start their

own businesses. And I was like, why in the world is this happening? And I realized it's because no matter what their presenting issue was in therapy, whether it was depression, anxiety, stress, relationship issues, we were always working on their underlying self-worth or self-esteem. And as that increased, they started putting themselves out in the world differently with more confidence, more assertiveness, more negotiation, having more courage to expand their comfort zone. So I was like, how the heck can I do this and apply this to my own journey as an entrepreneur? So I founded Urban Balance, which is now a national outpatient mental health company with 17 locations in six states. And I started with $500, 50,000 of student loans. I made a thousand mistakes and became very

interested in my own psychology of money and how my belief systems about money, my money traumas, and my emotions around money were causing some self-sabotage in my business. So I applied strategies that I learned in my clinical training to help me move through my money blocks. And it worked with the help of a lot of other people and me needing to eat a good piece of humble pie. I definitely learned some hard lessons. I want to share with others how to do the same and how to welcome a life of abundance. Yeah, the one thing that I thought was so interesting, I almost want to, you know, write this down to remind myself because we all need this reminder. It's just like the idea that we all think that prosperity leads to happiness,

but it's actually happiness leads to prosperity. I can't tell you how many times, and I'm sure you've heard this too, so many people are like, if I just have more money, if I just start earning more income, if I just have this thing, then I'll be good. I'll be happy. But it's like, that's not, you know, I know a lot of miserable millionaires and billionaires out there. Like don't bring you happiness. Happiness can lead to prosperity. But obviously, and you talk about this in your book, you're not promoting greed and just getting wealth and all that kind of stuff. It's really about, I think, being more intentional with what does prosperity and wealth mean to you? Do you want to kind of talk a little bit

about that? When people are thinking about the like prosperity, what does that actually mean? Well, you hit on a lot of points. And I think that for me, doing that inner deeper psycho spiritual work where you are kind of detaching from your ego, which is your mind's understanding of yourself, and connecting with that higher, deeper self, which I term our essence or spirit or soul or authentic self, however you want to view that or conceptualize that. We all are dealt a different hand of hardships and blessings, and we all have unique gifts. And when we do our inner work and we align our unique gifts with a need in the world, we can create a win-win where our gifts are lifting others up through collaboration. And as we expand our lives and our businesses and our work, we can become compassionate leaders. We can provide jobs. We can provide internships. We can become philanthropists. And so it's not about materialism or excess, but it's about embracing our, which is something so many of us are struggling with these days with overwork and burnout, and supported connected relationships, because

I think many of us have become disconnected from our deeper selves and from each other on a deeper spiritual and emotional level, and also our mental and physical well-being. And you're right, people come into therapy all the time. They want the perfect job, the perfect body, the perfect bank account and relationship, but it's not until you really look at yourself. And I I've been through this myself. The first time that I was in therapy, my mother starred in every session. You know, I, I, I kind of was stuck in some blame until I worked through forgiveness and acceptance. And it wasn't until I was willing to look at myself and my own issues that my life began

to change. And so that's what I encourage others to do as well. And yeah, that's something I've seen a lot over the years. And you do touch on this and you mentioned the term abundant, like, oh, we definitely need to talk about that. That is something that I see a lot of people talk about in different ways, the idea of having an abundance mindset and a scarcity mindset. I see this all the time as a financial counselor, people coming at, you know, I want to fix my finances, but it's just coming from a place of

scarcity. And I've had to work through that. And I'm still, I'm always working on it. I feel like that's also another thing. It's like, nothing's ever fixed. It's always a work in progress. Sometimes you'll have to like, oh, we need to go back to that. Do you want to kind of, yeah, discuss, you know, what is a scarcity mindset and abundance mindset? Why it's so important to really kind of dig into that? Because I think most people have no idea some of the internal feelings that they're carrying forward. Yes, absolutely. So according to cognitive behavioral therapy, our thoughts precede our emotions and behaviors. So our belief systems and our thoughts and our thinking about money really shapes our financial reality. And I too struggle with a scarcity mindset. And most

therapists, we specialize in our own issues. And I've dealt with my share of financial anxiety. And so a scarcity mindset is one based on fear and lack and competition. The idea that there may not be enough resources for all of us. So think about during the pandemic, the toilet paper issue of hoarding, because there's fear that there won't be enough for all of us. And my father grew up during the Great Depression. So that was another time in history where people had a scarcity mindset. And so I grew up in a household where he had a lot of financial anxiety, despite having achieved a lot of career success. He was unemployed during much of my childhood. And that really shaped how I relate to money. Where an abundance mindset is one based on the idea that there's

more than enough resources for all of us, whether that's jobs or love. Think of all the people you know who've said, there's no good people to date out there. That's a scarcity mindset. The abundance mindset is one that there's love everywhere and love is available to each of us. So it's more focused on collaboration. And again, it's not focused on excess. It's about really expansion, expanding your life in every way, having the courage to really aim high. I like to think about, you know, if you had a magic wand, what do you want your life to look like personally and professionally? Because I find we set our own ceilings. And I share in my book that I did that even with my salary or income. I was thinking about what do I need to cover my bills instead true. And it's, it's just something I see time and time again, I guess, the one thing people may encounter is, as they discover, I don't have an abundance

mindset, but I see the value in it, I definitely have a scarcity. How do you work towards kind of flipping that? Is that just like something that a therapist can help you with? Or like, what, what are some steps that you can do to kind of work towards changing that? Yes. So my book is a step by step program with practical tools and strategies and exercises that guide the readers through journal prompts, and proven strategies from psychology. So cognitive behavioral therapy techniques, where you write down your money thoughts, and then you work at identifying irrational belief systems and restructuring those through affirmations and mantra and becoming aware of your inner saboteur. And yes, there are therapists who specialize in finance and in the psychology of money, which is really your thoughts, emotions, behaviors,

and relationship with money. And it's a practice. It takes ongoing work. Like you said, we're never done, which is so frustrating. I wish we could be done, but we're human and we're not perfect. And we're all works in progress. Yeah, no, absolutely. Another thing that really hit home for me when I was reading your book was in chapter six, you talk about self love. And that is something again, similar to the mindsets. I think a lot of us don't realize that we're maybe lacking or yeah, we're just not practicing self love. And I think it's something that I think a lot of people more are talking about more like self care, self love. What does that actually mean? Self-love? How do we incorporate that into our lives? Thank you for mentioning that because to me, that is probably one of the most important chapters along with the abundance chapter. And I think that our relationship with ourself is one of the most important and it's one of the most difficult. We all have an inner saboteur, that inner critic, that voice in our head that puts us down.

We cause ourselves self-sabotage. Sometimes we think about ourselves and talk to ourselves in a way we would speak to no one else. And so I like, you know, in my work with my clients, my favorite thing is mirroring back to them all that is beautiful and wonderful and special about them and all of their strengths. And I want readers to begin to be able to do that for themselves, to embrace their worth and turn down the volume of that inner critic. And then really look at how you treat yourself. Even simple things like, I know,

you know, we all I've definitely put on pandemic pounds. I say to myself, would I feed my daughters what I ate yesterday? Right? And if the answer is no, like, what's up with that? Why am I not treating myself the way that I would I love someone I love very, very much. And so my book teaches people how to think about yourself in a way that reflects self-compassion, how to behave in a way that is like your own loving parent, and how to coach yourself through life challenges as if you're most positive coach and most compassionate advocate. And this takes a lot of work. But when we care about ourselves, we set healthy boundaries financially and in our relationships. I'm a recovering people pleaser. I'm a person who tends to put others before myself,

and I became exhausted and depleted. And I see this in my practice a lot, especially with women who, you know, serve multiple roles in their families and communities. And so I, a religious background, a lot of the teachings are about helping others, and then come back to you, or sometimes not even coming back to you. And so I think it's, it's hard for some people to, you know, myself included, kind of, yeah, shift things around to have that kind of mindset of, I need to take care of me so I can take care of others. And that could be the same with, you know, talking to people who have a structure where they do need to help their families financially. Maybe they have family, you know, overseas and they need to send money and they're not doing as financially well as they could be

because they are giving, you know, so much of their finances to family overseas. And it's hard because a lot of people are like, how do I do both? How do I juggle taking care of me and taking care of others? When, you know, for years and years, I was told, take care of others first, and then me. It is a conflict. It very much is. And my last name is Martyr. and I've worked at not martyring myself financially. My accountant with my business, when I went through a period of cash flow hell, and I thought I was going to have to file business bankruptcy, he said to me, Joyce, you are not running a charity to employ therapists, and you deserve to make a profit.

And he basically did an intervention with me and I had to work through a lot of those belief systems. And one of the enormous blessings of being a therapist is that I've had the honor of counseling people from so many different cultural, sorry, cultures and religious backgrounds. And so learning how our cultural and religious or spiritual beliefs shape our relationship with money. And there are some Eastern philosophies that talk about abundance and prosperity in the context of spirituality that is really positive. And in Judaism, I think there's some really healthy belief systems about hard work and education and finance. And in some of the Christian teachings, there's some of those

beliefs of definitely putting others before yourself, which is beautiful, but not to the point that you aren't going to survive. So I really encourage people to think about it like when you're on an airplane, the flight attendant says in the event of an emergency, you have to secure your own oxygen mask before assisting others. So you really need to have financial stability in order to help others. And as my business started to be stronger and more profitable, I was able to hire more people, have interns, do some pro bono counseling, offer sliding fee counseling, allow my staff to give to charities that pick a charity and we would donate to it. And so, you know, it actually, it isn't selfish to take care of yourself financially actually enables you to be of

greater service to others. Totally, absolutely. Another thing that I really liked in your book, because this is something that has actually changed my life as nerdy as that sounds is in chapter seven, you talk about vision. And I feel like when I especially talk to people about, okay, you want to fix your finances, that's where you want to start is stop, you know, I think people get too hung up on the here and now what's going on or what's not going right with their finances, instead of, instead of just like, you know, kind of feeling bad about some of the choices you made, let's create a vision for what your life, you know, the life that you want, which I think is such an amazing thing. You kind of use the term personal manifesto, and I totally have that. That's something sometimes I,

you know, go back to on a daily basis if things are really kind of rough and I need to come back to like, why am I doing this? What's my vision? Because it can be very easy to look at other people's lives, compare, and then get off track and totally forget. I mean, what an example, which is a bit ridiculous. But I'm a business owner in the financial space. I've been doing this for a very long time. Sometimes you're on social media, you see other people in the space, and they're just prospering like crazy in a shorter amount of time. They've only been doing this for a few years. And you're like, oh my gosh, what am I doing wrong? Like, even if I've already I'm like on track to reach my own goals, but I'm getting off track by because I'm trying to compare myself to their goals. So I'm, you know, and I know you talk a lot about, you know, not comparing yourself

to others and stuff in your book as well. But I want to kind of talk about vision and why it is so important to set your own vision, your own goals in order to achieve them so you can stay on track. Absolutely. You brought up a lot of important aspects of that, that we cause ourselves anxiety when we compare our insides to other people's outsides. So on social media, we see everyone looking beautiful and successful. But if there's anything that I've learned as a therapist, it's that we all have struggles. We all struggle with our self-esteem. We struggle with finances in our relationships. It's part of the human condition. So to remember, you're seeing the tip of the iceberg and that we all have our stuff. And when we ruminate or second guess about the

past, we cause ourselves depression. And when we worry about the past, we cause ourselves depression. And when we worry about the future, we cause ourselves anxiety, when peace can really be found in the present moment. So I talk about applying mindfulness to finance. And when we're rooted in the present, and we dream about our future, we think about our highest and greatest vision. That's when we really welcome prosperity because we are rooted in the here and now. We're grounded. We're connected to our deeper self. And we are welcoming the greatest vision of our life, both personally and professionally. I saw a career counselor in my early 30s, and I told her, you know, my greatest dream was to be a mom, but I also wanted to start a business. And she said,

Joyce, you have to plan your career in the context of your life and not the other way around. And as a therapist, I see that we, through the power of self-fulfilling prophecy, we create our realities. So if we set our ceilings low with modest thinking, then that's how our life is going to turn out. And I share a story in the book of meeting with a friend and colleague who was also starting his practice. And he asked me how much money I wanted to make. And this was in the mid 90s. And I said, $60,000 a year. And he said, Oh, gross, I want to make well over 100. And I said, do you think that's possible? And he said, of course, that's possible. And that year, I made 60. And Steve made well over 100. He also won Shark Tank was on Oprah's favorite things.

Oh, great. You know thought, you know what? I want to expand. I want to be like Steve. I want to expand my thinking. And so I did that and it transformed my life. So I love vision boards. I have activities in the book, like you mentioned, personal manifesto or professional vision, how to set your one, three year, five year business plan or goals, and thinking big,

and then, you know, accessing support to make that happen. Yeah. Do you think the reason that a lot of people are maybe afraid to create that kind of vision for themselves is just like the fear of failure? No one wants to set a goal and then not achieve it. Because that I think a lot of people are afraid that that'll, you know, derail them and demotivate them. Yes, absolutely. I noticed that entrepreneurs have extreme optimism. So they tend to block out some of those negative beliefs. My best friend, who's also a therapist, accuses me of psychotic optimism. And so, you know, just putting on those blinders and refusing to believe that something isn't impossible, then it becomes possible. But we all get in our own way. I remember, I share a story in the book where my friend suggested I meet with his Buddhist monk,

because my book had been rejected for 10 years by multiple publishers. And he said, Joyce, I think you need a consultation with my monk. And I met with him and he was one of the most brilliant men I'd ever met. And after a few moments of hearing my story about my book and why it wasn't happening, he said, I have your answer. And he wrote on a piece of paper and he handed it to me and it said, WTF. And I was like, what? And he said, absolutely weaken the fiction. Oh, weaken the fiction in your head. So we have so much fear, fear of success, fear of failure, excuses, all these rationalizations that we get in our own way and we prevent our dreams from coming true. And once I heard that, I started walking around my house saying,

I am a published author and speaker like my hero, Brene Brown. And as ridiculous as that sounds, within a year, I had a book deal with the publisher that Brene Brown has. Oh my God. I got out of my own way. I'm curious, what did you do? What are some of the action steps that you did differently than in the past? I had been working with a literary agent for a while, and I think I was feeling shame and inadequacy that we'd had so much rejection. And instead of being passive about it, I reached out to her and I said, hey, listen, I'm going to give this three more months and let's give this a big push. Otherwise, I'm going to self-publish.

And that seemed to really ignite a fire under her because she believed in the project. And suddenly, we had a couple of offers, including Sounds True. Wow. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Sometimes it's just about, yeah, doing something differently. I want to find that monk because I love that. I love that. It's like, I have the answer for you. I'm like, don't we all want someone to say, oh, I've got the answer for you. I was so excited. My heart was racing. I was like, oh my gosh. And then when I saw the WTF, I was kind of mad. Yeah. You're like, excuse me. Oh my gosh. Um, so just a few other notes that I've, uh, you know, wrote down when I was reading your book that again, really, you know, uh, you know, hit home for me. Uh, one was in chapter eight,

you talk about support. I feel like that's not discussed enough. The importance of having a good support system, weeding out toxic relationships. That is something I feel like I've been doing unconsciously for since I like finished college, realizing how big of an impact all aspects of, you know, your self-worth and, you know, who you have in your life. So I've had to, you know, ditch some friendships that and, you know, and it's, you know, 10 years ago, I'm like, oh, no, I can never let go of that friendship. We've been friends for a while. And now 10 years, you know, forward, I'm like, I am so glad I did that because I was not gaining anything. I was always putting myself down or trying to limit myself in order to, you know, make them feel okay, or whatever the case,

very difficult to do. And I think maybe that's also, again, a practice is creating that support system and also nurturing that good support system, but then also letting go of things that are not helping you. Do you want to kind of discuss that? And what kind of inspired that chapter? Well, I just have seen in my practice and through my own personal life that our support is the key to success. And personally, I realized that I'm a lot more comfortable giving support than receiving it. And that was my detriment. And that led to burnout. It led to my business struggling.

And once I opened myself up to receiving support, it transformed my life both personally and professionally. And we all have barriers to receiving support. We may have issues of trust based on previous trauma or betrayal. We may have fears that people won't take care of us in the ways that we desire. We may have issues around pride or ego, or we may see receiving support as a weakness, but accessing support is an enormous strength and all of us is smarter than any one of us. So seeking consultation and nurturing your support network, expanding it and asking for the support that you need and deserve is so important. And I've been giving corporate trainings throughout the pandemic. And one of the things that I found most staggering is I have a poll asking people, what kind of support do you

need the most? And over 95% of participants have said emotional support. So what is it about our culture, right? That we all need it and we're not receiving what we need. And so I blog for psychology today. I've written articles on how to give and receive emotional support, how to practice empathy in our relationships. And, and I've, I've learned how to ask more for what I need. And it, it is vulnerable. It is a little bit scary. But wow, to receive that is life changing. Yeah, I think like you said, a lot of us are maybe more used to providing that support. And when we need it, we clam up and don't ask for it. And I don't know where that comes from. I think part of it could be that a lot of us were raised in a way or just,

you know, grew up thinking that asking for help is a weakness, you should figure it out on your own. And that's, you know, why I'm always talking, you know, to people about like, if you need, if you, you know, have any kind of mental health issues, or you just you're just don't feel like you can handle what's going on in your life by yourself, ask for help. I mean, that is why I'm so vocal about me seeing a therapist is because sometimes you just can't fix your own engine, right? You need a mechanic. Oh, I love that analogy. I may borrow that from you. Yeah, I was really afraid when I started graduate school that my professors would see that I dealt with an anxiety disorder. And I still do, honestly. It's like being diabetic. I manage it, you know, but I've come so far. I used to be afraid to be called on in class. And if I was, my voice shook. Therapy's transformed my

life. And I think it's like going to the dentist or the doctor. It should be a routine and preventative form of healthcare. We all have mental health, like we have physical health and accessing that support can give you a safe space to process your life and get clarity on where you're going and resources and strategies to move forward successfully. And it's really healthy and proactive. Absolutely. I want to kind of end things on a positive note by talking about chapter 11 on positivity. Love it. I know, right? So one thing I loved that that was a chapter in your book. It's funny, I read this other book that talked about the power of positivity and how I think a lot of us don't quite know what positivity means. I think a lot of us just think you're just happy, go lucky. But really, you know, there's lots of different definitions. You kind of talk about, you know, enthusiasm. And I think hope is another

big word that I like to kind of associate with positivity. Beautiful. It is also, again, like we've been talking about, that is a practice. You have to practice positivity because it is so much easier to get negative, to go dark, to get into yourself. How can people, I guess, recognize whether they're being positive or negative and how do they nurture kind of that positive side? I think one of the easiest ways to nurture positivity is to start a gratitude practice. So in any situation, we have the choice to either look at what isn't working or what is. And so even during challenges like the pandemic has been enormously challenging for each of us in our own unique ways. And if we dwell on all the hardship

and losses and negativity, we're going to really bring ourselves down. But if we dwell on all the hardship and losses and negativity, we're going to really bring ourselves down. But if we look for the secret blessings, the hidden blessings and the gifts, we're going to feel better. So some people keep a gratitude journal. Each night before I fall asleep, I lay in my bed and I think about what went well today. What am I grateful for? And it shifts my thinking instead of worrying about what went well today, what am I grateful for? And it shifts my thinking,

instead of worrying about what's coming tomorrow to thinking about what's going well. And I think it facilitates peace and rest and a good night's sleep. So gratitude is definitely one. And, you know, just again, paying attention to your thoughts, because our negative thinking is an aspect of ego, and it's there to protect ourselves, but it also limits us. And so if we become cognizant of how we're limiting ourselves with fear-based thinking, we can instead shift to positivity, which takes a lot of courage. And it can be scary to put yourself out in the world. And I think that's what keeps people from sending the resume, applying for the job, starting their own business, publishing that book, you know, writing that screenplay, hanging their art, whatever it is.

And we've got to get out of our own way. Yeah, I think a lot of people to also usually connect the idea of being rational with being, you know, that kind of has a connection to negativity. It's like, oh, that will never happen. I'm just being rational. But, you know, like you said, it's like I've achieved so many things in my life that I would have never thought would be realistic or even rational. And they happened. And that's part of it, just being positive and just having that hope and just going for it anyway. And part of it, too, I think is also getting rid of the idea that failure is something to be avoided, because I've always learned something from those failures. And no

failure has ever really, you know, ruined my life. I think even like people, you know, talk about, you know, in the financial terms, like getting a consumer proposal or a bankruptcy. This is the end of the world. I'm a failure. But even then, that is not an end to your life. That is just kind of, you know, maybe hitting pause on certain things and then new chapter starting over. Hardships are opportunities for growth. And I've been honored to be included on a panel of successful private practice owners and the counseling profession. And the common theme of all of our stories is that we had failure after failure and we got back up and that's resilience. It's bouncing back and

persevering and it's hard to do, but you just stay the course and learn from those mistakes. We're not perfect. We're all works in progress. Continuing to work on that is so important. Honestly, I found all of the failures that have happened in my life, not only did I learn really important lessons, but they made me, honestly, ultimately more confident and just a stronger person. It is one of those things where it can actually be a positive person. So it's, you know, it is one of

those things where it's, it's, it can actually be a positive thing, a good thing. So don't be afraid. And I think, yeah, it's, it's tell, ask me, I like, I don't know one person, like one really successful person that hasn't had a bunch of failures in their life. There's no one that has just been able to reach the top and everything just went swimmingly. No, no, no. It's not true. It's like exposure therapy. I used to have tremendous anxiety about doing media interviews to the point where I wouldn't sleep the night before. I'd be almost having panic attacks. And then I realized, you know what, if I say something dumb, it's not the end of the world. And after I made it through some interviews and it was fine, you know, I, that anxiety decreased. So some, just putting yourself out there, exposure therapy. And the thing about, you know,

people, the positivity and rational thinking with my clients, if they say they're going for a promotion or a new job, I'll ask them, do you think that you're going to get it? And a lot of people will use that realism and say, you know what, there's a lot of competition. I'm probably not ready. So probably not. And then I'll say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Then you won't. And they're usually a little taken aback because I like being a warm, fuzzy kind of therapist. But if we don't believe in ourselves, nobody else is going to. And through self-fulfilling prophecy, we limit ourselves. Exactly. And it's just, yeah, there's so many potential missed opportunities just by not even putting yourself in the ring and not even giving yourself a try. And that's, I think,

always kind of the thing that breaks my heart the most is people that won't even give it a go, that will be like, oh, I'm already a failure anyway. So I'm not even going to put myself to potentially succeed. It's like that's, you know, but again, that is a practice. I used to have that exact mindset in my like, I think early to mid 20s, just because I think, you know, so many things in my life, that's a whole therapy session. But you know, I had to work continually to put myself up for things that I didn't think that I would get. And then sometimes you'll surprise yourself and you'll either get it or like get it halfway or another opportunity that's maybe better for you pops up. But like,

you got to put yourself out there and you have to continually do it. It's never it's never over. You have to continually push yourself to continue to grow. So love it. Yeah, there's so many great things in your book. And I really absolutely love how you come at it from, you know, the psychological perspective, but you really break everything down in such a great way. Like it really is a true guide. So if someone is like, I have no idea where to start, you really lay it all out. Where can people find more information about you and grab a copy of your book, The Financial Mindset Fix? Thanks so much, Jessica. So my website is joycemarter.com. J-O-Y-C-E-M-A-R-T-E-R. Excuse me, I can't spell my own

name. M-A-R-T-E-R.com. And then my book is on Amazon and Audible financial mindset fix. It's in bookstores at Barnes and Noble and other retailers. So I, I would love to connect on social media as well. Awesome. Yeah. And where can people find you on social media if they're like, is it just under your name or? It's just my name. And I'm on, you know, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, you name it. And I definitely need Instagram loves. It's tough. Yeah. Oh, I know. It is tough. I feel you there. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show and sharing all your amazing wisdom. I know this is going to be a great episode for so many people that need to hear this right now. Thank you so much, Jessica. And that was episode 321 of the More Money Podcast with Joyce

Marder. You can check her out at her website, joycemarder.com. You can also follow her on Instagram at Joyce.Marder and on Twitter at Joyce underscore Marder. And of course, I will include a bunch of links of how you can reach, you know, follow her or learn more about what she does. And of course, grab a copy of her book. In the show notes for this episode, just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash 321. And if you ever want to go to the show notes for any episode that you've ever heard of, it's super easy to do. So you just go to well, either jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast, it has everything listed there, or jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever the number of that episode is, it'll take you right there. So like I mentioned, I am going to be giving away a copy

of her book, The Financial Mindset Fix. To enter, all you have to do is go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest and you will see that let me see how many books I've got on here now because I've been giving away books all season and I do so every single season of the podcast which makes me very happy um so there are a number of books that you can enter to win of course you're only gonna win one book but currently there's one two three four five six seven books I'm giving away um so make sure to check it out, jessicamorehouse.com slash contest and enter to win one of these books. There's a very good chance that you will win. There's a very good chance. That's all I'm going to say. I've got

a lot of things to share with you. So do not go away. But just want to first share a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the more Money Podcast is supported by Oxio. Empathy. Radical transparency. Simplicity. Free spirit. When you hear these words, I doubt the first thing you'd associate them with is an internet company. Oxio wants to change that. They believe in disrupting the internet provider space in Canada and putting the customer first, finally. And they're doing just that by providing local and friendly customer service, unlimited internet, no contracts, and competitive pricing to customers in Quebec, Ontario, and British Columbia. That's why I made the switch to Oxio myself. Not only that, when you sign up using the promo code MOREMONEY, you'll get your first month free. Plus, like

everyone at Oxio, an Eero 6 router with ridiculously fast Wi-Fi speeds and better privacy controls is included. And once you've signed up, you can even use Oxio's referral program to earn free internet. Want to ditch your old internet provider like me? Visit Oxio.ca and use promo code MOREMONEY to try out Oxio for free for one month. It's as simple as that. Once again, visit Oxio.ca, that's O-X-I-O dot C-A, and use promo code MOREMONEY to try Oxio for free for one month. Okay, so what is new with me? First and foremost, I just want to remind you, if you follow me on, gosh, Facebook or social media or whatever, and I think I mentioned this in the previous episode or a previous episode, if you ever want to know if it is, you know, if there's like a spam,

Instagram account or Facebook account, all you have to do, I mean, you can always reach out to me personally, you know, my email Jessica at JessicaMorehouse.com. But also, all you have to do and this could be done for any anything is just go to that person or my website, right? And go to the footer of the website, it has all of my legitimate social media accounts listed. I'm saying this because unfortunately, I've been dealing with this for a while. There's lots of spam accounts, imposter accounts, pretending to be me trying to DM or message or friend request now, people that I know or people that follow me. And it is a phishing scam. It is

called spear phishing. It is a scam. So just be aware, I am not going to reach out to you over DM. I never unprompted, you know, DM. I only DM people back. I only have one Facebook account that I honestly never use like a personal Facebook account. I really only have it in existence so I can have my Facebook fan page and my Facebook group for my online course. Yeah, so just be aware if it looks fishy, it probably is. But if you are never sure, and I do appreciate when people do this, send me an email and I can let you know. I also really appreciate when people let me know because then honestly, these accounts always block my account so I can never search for them and find them. So it's a big problem that's been happening to so many people. And I've been dealing with this for

years and years and years. So just stay aware there's especially now during tax season, there's so many scams, phishing, you know, emails and DMS and stuff like that. So just be diligent and just be aware. But with that, I also want to share because I actually did. I'm back on the YouTube, guys. I'm back making YouTube videos. It took me like three months. That's my last video. But honestly, like it's just been busy. And also, I haven't really had like a place and like a proper space where I can do these YouTube videos, but I finally do now. And it's not my permanent place. I'm just doing it in my like home office. But I've got this like special, weird kind of empty room in my basement of my house. That's like it's it's a weird room that like, otherwise, I don't know, I guess you'd use it for storage, but I'm going to convert it into a YouTube studio because it has no windows was actually the perfect studio. Anyways,

I have created not one but two videos on my channel, you can find me at Jessica morehouse.com slash YouTube or just go to YouTube. If you Google Jessica Morehouse in the search bar, you will find my YouTube account and then you can subscribe and find all my videos. This is something that I really, really, really want to pay attention to this year, creating more regular videos because I honestly love it. I just, I've been busy with life and the podcast and the million things that I'm trying to do to kind of update my brand. Like I've mentioned, I'm updating my website. I'm hoping that'll be pushed through in the next month or so. I just did my, you know, photo shoot for some new videos or new photos. And I've just

like kind of approved the photos that I want to get. I'm very excited because that means I'm eventually going to have a new podcast artwork. The one that I have right now is going to be replaced, refreshed, very exciting. Gosh, what else have I been up to? I feel like a lot. I feel like there's been a lot going on. It's been a very intense for me a couple weeks work wise, like there's just a lot of deadlines and I'm just like working really long hours. Oh, one exciting thing that you may know if you follow me on like Twitter or social or Instagram is I was able to finally do a public speaking event on stage. And I haven't been on stage doing like a live presentation for two years. Yeah, it'll be like two years exactly since I've done it.

There was no one in the audience besides like a few people that worked at the organization. So that was it was still kind of COVID friendly you know but uh it was actually so exciting to actually be on stage and do you know instead of doing it from my you know home office on zoom or something so it was it felt like it just honestly it was such an like exciting experience because it felt like oh my gosh is this what it used to feel like is this what you know the before times were this is a good feeling i don't. It got me excited and hopeful for the future. And I don't know about you. I mean, like things have totally opened up here in Toronto and stuff, which I'm still like, you know, after two years of like restrictions and masks and everything like that, it's going to take me a bit to, you know,

mentally catch up to what's actually going on and stuff like that. But I'm excited. Like we booked some, you know, flights to some weddings. I have my sister coming to visit me in the summer. I'm possibly planning a trip to somewhere, maybe Costa Rica or something in the summer. We'll see. I just I need to go on vacation because I don't know about you, but everyone I freaking know is on vacation right now. And there's some major FOMO going on. I want to go someplace too. But anyways, yeah, lots of lots of things going on. And I'm excited to kind of reveal more. But that's all I've got. That's all I can share really right now. But yeah, exciting things. It was just like a really exciting moment to be on stage and to

also it was like after doing presentations for, you know, two years online, it was like, you know, you kind of get that like imposter syndrome where you're like, Oh my gosh, do I even remember how to like, present in that kind of way where it is it is different. Like, you know, as you're walking around, you have to make sure you're performing more and you have to really memorize that whole presentation because you cannot have notes on another screen. I usually do. But yeah, no, it worked out well. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. I was stressing. I'll tell you what. But yeah, that's what's I feel like been going on. So not a heck of a lot, but also a lot. Yeah, not a heck of a lot for you. You probably don't care, but

a lot for me. It's been busy times. But yeah. But anyways, I'm not going to take up more of your time because you're awesome and you're still listening. I appreciate that. So thank you so much for listening to this episode. Again, I've got, you know, more episodes coming. We've got until like mid-June. So don't you worry. I'm putting out more YouTube videos and make sure to follow me on YouTube, subscribe, check out my new videos. And a big shout out to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout for always being awesome and cleaning up all of my episodes and making them sound awesome. But yeah, I will see you next week. Have a great rest of your week and weekend. I'll see you very soon. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network.

Find out more at womeninmedia.network.