More Money Podcast - 322 Breaking the Debt Cycle for Good - Erin Skye Kelly, Author and Financial Educator

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

This week on the podcast we’re tackling a common money problem that affects millions of people everywhere. Of course I’m talking about debt. Joining me today is an author who racked up over $2 million of personal debt, despite being the owner of a mortgage brokerage at the time. Erin Skye Kelly, is on the show to share how she paid down her debt and is now helping others do the same. Erin Skye Kelly is a bestselling and award-winning author, podcast host, educator, and entrepreneur. She’s created courses and workshops focused on financial empowerment and her book “Get the Hell Out of Debt'' teaches financial literacy through a relatable and approachable lens. In this episode, Erin shares what led her to accruing millions of dollars of debt, despite working in the financial industry and why that’s a more common occurrence than you’d think. She also shares why learning to build wealth is a part of her step-by-step guide to tackling your finances and how the pandemic has shifted things for younger generations. Whether you have student loans or have been racking up credit card debt, today’s episode will motivate you to start putting together a repayment plan. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/322 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. My name is Jessica Morehouse, the host of this show, and this is episode 322 of the show. Gosh, that's a lot. I'm so excited about this episode. We're going to be talking about debt in this episode, but not in a doom and gloom way, really in a positive way, because I know a lot of people deal with debt. It is almost a kind of a normal thing to be in debt these days, but it's not normal. And so what can we do to get the hell out of debt? Well, that is why I've got Erin Skye Kelly on the show. She's a best-selling and award-winning author, keynote speaker, and entrepreneur. And her new book, which came out last July, Get the Hell Out of Debt,

teaches financial literacy in a way that is approachable, entertaining, and inspiring. Now a little bit more about Erin. Though she is the former owner of a mortgage brokerage, Erin actually found herself with over $2 million of personal debt. Erin then enlisted the help of financial professionals, but grew frustrated when their debt consolidation and refinancing solutions only made the problem worse. Instead of paying off debt with debt, Erin set out on a mission to truly understand how money works. And so in her book, Get the Hell Out of Debt, Erin recorded her findings and her financial advice, along with a healthy dose of laughter and love. And thousands of people have eradicated millions of dollars of debt because of Erin and how she was able to teach them how

to get the hell out of debt. Not only that, she's also a podcast host, educator, and leader who's created courses and workshops focused on financial empowerment. And like I've mentioned, she's a keynote speaker and has shared the stage with some legendary motivational speakers, such as Tony Robbins, Phil Towne, and Gary John Bishop. So lots of exciting things to chat about in this episode. You're going to love it. But before I get to that episode with Erin, here's just a few words about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by The Globe and Mail. Now, you may not know this about me, but my interest in personal finance actually started all the way back in high school. You see, whenever I finished school, I'd take a bus to my part-time job at a fast food chain,

and I'd always get there about 20 minutes before my shift. So to kill time, I would browse through the latest issue of The Globe and Mail that would always be in the break room. And guess what turned out to be my favorite section? Unsurprisingly, the report on business section. Who knew that that early introduction into the world of finance would eventually lead me to a career centered on financial literacy? Needless to say, I've been a loyal Globe and Mail reader ever since. And that's because even though I've been creating personal finance content for over a decade now, I am always learning something new. And I especially always want to stay on top of the latest business and investing news, market data and analysis. And honestly, I just love reading anything Globe columnist Rob Carrick writes. Want to invest in

yourself and start a new morning ritual of reading the Globe and Mail like I do? Well, lucky for you, the Globe is offering listeners of the More Money Podcast a special digital subscription rate for unrestricted access to everything on globeandmail.com. Visit tgam.ca slash Jessica to get started. Once again, visit tgam.ca slash Jessica to take advantage of this limited time offer. Welcome, Erin, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you, Jessica. I'm a big fan, so this is exciting for me. Well, I am thrilled that that is something that you just said to me. That's really, really cool. I'm a big fan as well.

And also, hello, fellow Canadian. It's always a fun surprise to find out, oh, you're Canadian too. That's always nice. It's a big country, but I always like, you know, oh, that's fun. I'm thrilled to have you on the show to discuss your book, Get the Hell Out of Debt. I actually wanted to kind of start, you know, I always like starting these episodes with getting to know the guests a little bit more. I kind of want to start with a part of your book that you shared like kind of right at the start of the intro that I thought was so fascinating was you were sharing this really personal story about how you were in kind of a toxic work environment and how important you realize how important it was to kind of have that financial backup plan to be financially okay. So you could leave an environment

like that. And honestly, I've heard so many stories over the years, especially from women that have been in similar situations, whether that's a toxic relationship or a work environment. Quite honestly, that was sort of my experience, too. My last job was not a very, like, once you leave, you have that perspective. You're like, that was a really unhealthy environment for me to work in for all those years. And part of it, I'm like, I'm so glad that I had that financial safety net that allowed me to leave. I kind of want to start there. Can you kind of share a little bit more about that experience and how that had a big impact on you? Well, I think, you know, that is, you know,

especially if you're a woman and you're listening, I mean, it's, this happens to men too. So I'm not, I just, I personally don't have testicles, so I can't come at it from that perspective. But I just want women to understand, like, it is critical that you take care of yourself financially, because women typically get trapped in situations when we do have debt, because it's really hard to leave. And in that particular job, I really noticed because this gentleman was, he was like a giant petulant toddler. And he regarded himself quite highly highly like he thought he was a genius but it was weird his behaviors were so inappropriate all the time and you know when somebody is like really inappropriate with you you almost like you look around the room you're like am I the only one

experiencing this insanity right now so I would look around at the other women and the other women would make eyes with me but then just like look away because I realized after amount of time, holy, like none of us can say anything because like either they won't be believed or they'll, he'll make it more uncomfortable for them and they need the money so badly that they're willing to stay in this environment. And I was like, I got to get out of here. I got to get out of here. And so it's, it's so much easier to walk away from a, cause you know, I did the thing, I went to HR and HR was useless. They're trying to protect

the company from getting sued. Right. And, and then they interrogate you like to see how you participated in the nonsense. Right. It's just, it was just madness. And I thought they're not going to do the right thing here. And it's, this is before the Me Too movement. Thank goodness for those brave women of Me Too. But it was like, I have to leave if I want to take care of my own mental health, but I would not be able to do this if I, you know, because at one point, I was in a whole bunch of debt. And I thought, I can't, I wouldn't be able to leave. I'd have to stay and endure this guy for years. And so I just, you know, it was a moment of clarity for me when I looked around at those other women and we all looked at each other like, I know, I know, but just like, you know, placate the toddler. And then I was like, women have to become financially free.

We cannot, if we are to get where we want to go and have healthy lives and healthy families and healthy relationships with our partners and all the rest of it like we have to put ourselves in a position where we aren't relying on somebody else's financial um not handout because of course you're working for it but you don't you don't want to rely on that paycheck um to survive because it will actually like put you in a position where you have to put up with things that are absolutely uncalled for or unsafe or damaging in a lot of cases so that you can just put food on the table yeah absolutely i mean i think i mean i've had several jobs where i was able to leave because they were unhealthy environments and i but but even still there

were a couple times where i've had to leave jobs. And I'm like, I don't know if this is financially a good idea. Like this is a bit scary. And I think sometimes, yeah, maybe, you know, again, I'm coming at this from a female perspective, because that's all the only perspective I really haven't. Honestly, when I talk to other people, it's usually women sharing these stories. It's sometimes you don't think you don't realize how important it is to have that financial backup plan until something happens. So I think it's so important to like, you know, if you recognize that, you know, if something were to happen, like I would, or if you've ever told yourself, oh, I would love to leave or do something else or go back to school, etc, etc.

But I just can't afford it because I'm living paycheck to paycheck. That should be kind of the wake-up call. But I think lots of us just get stuck into that cycle of, well, this is how it is, and I can't change things. And obviously, with your book, you want to change things for people. That's why you've kind of laid it all out there to give people a good, thorough guide for, okay, if you want to change things, this is what you need to do. And it's not always easy. So tell me a little bit about like, how did this book, you know, come about at what phase in your life? Did you, you know, really want to put all this information together and all the kind of teachings that you've taught other people over the years into this book? Well, I do also want to just say quickly that all of this is coming from a place of privilege in that like we, what you and I are talking about here is like we do have

choices and there are people and there are, you know, demographics that just don't simply because of the systemic issues that are at play. So we're not necessarily talking about those. Those are bigger issues than my little book can talk about. But I am talking about if you are, you know, you're of working age, maybe you have student loan debt, credit card debt, that kind of a thing. And you're just trying to like get it all together. And you're really struggling because you're like, how am I ever getting ahead? It feels like every time I get a paycheck in my account, it disappears. And what happened for me is I ended up, I thought I was doing everything right. I was buying assets. buying assets and I was you know reading all the financial books and I was you know doing all the things and I leveraged myself really high and realized one day like I am in really big trouble here like

I have a high what we would call net worth but I don't have cash and so I wasn't I just like when you know everything changed like it just takes one little variable in your life to change it, a health scare, a job loss, you know, a divorce, pregnancy, death of a family member, caring for an elderly family member or a younger child. So that little variable can then blow up your whole financial life. And so what happened for me was that, you know, I was on the, you know, in that sort of spot in my life, I was a thought I was doing everything right, I was investing in real estate, and I was, you know, the market was going up and up. So I thought I'm a genius. And, and then everything changed. And I got really stressed. And I really realized, like, holy cow, I did not think this through, like, I, I just assumed I was invincible. And I really realized, like, holy cow, I did not think this through. Like, I just assumed I was invincible. And I was actually lucky enough that I started at a young enough age.

Like, you know what I mean? I didn't have anything to lose because I was young and dumb. But I then, as I was going through all of this, I looked around and there were so many other people, too, that would, like, come to me with really hushed kind of voices and be like, hey, like, I'm also struggling. Like, what are you doing? So one of the things that, you know, in my parallel life to this media life in this sort of, you know, media background and broadcasting background that I had, I'd also been a licensed mortgage broker and owned my own mortgage brokerage. And so I was watching people come into the mortgage brokerage and being like, I need to pay off my credit card. So they were borrowing against their house to pay off their debt. And they like their house was like

an ATM. And I was watching this happen. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't do this. Like, this is not a math problem. This is entirely a human behavior problem. Like this is an emotional issue. This is not a math issue. So I started the whole thing because I really was called to help people because I thought I just knew how dark those days could be. And I started the whole thing because I really was called to help people because I thought I just knew how dark those days could be. And I didn't want anybody else to feel that way. I really was trying to like, sort of warn people ahead of time, like there's danger ahead, like, you've got to turn the ship around, like before it gets too late. And so I just started like, helping and teaching. And what was interesting is in the beginning, it was mostly people in the finance industry, Jessica. And you know this because you have your like all your CFPs and all your things, right? Like you work in like, and sometimes people in the industry are worse because there's a huge difference between what you know and what you practice. And what's interesting is like there were, you know, people who were bankers or

accountants or whatever, they were, they were coming to me and they were like, I just keep leveraging. And I'm like, that's because you're, what you're doing is you're selling yourself on the strategies the lenders are trying to sell you on the debt on. You're convincing yourself that that's right. You're looking at it from a math perspective and not from an emotional perspective, like how do I actually handle money? Math aside, what's my relationship to money? So I started helping all these people, we kind of just created a little course, because I thought, well, I'll just run this course, because I started one on one was getting too much of a time tax for me. So be like, Oh, come on, you know, Saturday at noon,

and I'll teach you what I know. And then it was packed. And I was like, Oh, no. So created this online course. And then, you know, just been sort of teaching it on the side, like I just recorded the videos and put them online, and people could watch them as they needed. And that was that. But then the pandemic hit. And it became really clear that a book was necessary in order to reach as many people as possible. So the book and the course both are divided into three phases. And the first phase really is that thing that we were just talking about. It's like the, you know, the fundamentals of money. And you know, too, from your brilliant work that like you can know everything there is to know mathematically. And we sort of assume money is black and white, right or wrong. But there's like 50 shades of math in there that have more to do with how you relate to money and your own psychology around money. So that's what phase one is all about. It's really figuring out like why you're in the financial position you're in

today, where you want to go and what you are missing or what you need to learn or adapt in order to get where you want to go. Phase two then is that's the get the hell out of debt phase. That's where you really are paying down any consumer debt if you have it and honestly like right now like at this moment in time paying off that consumer debt is more critical than ever because what we're seeing happen with inflation and all of the other crazy things that are happening in the economy it's critical that you don't have consumer debt if you i don't know how to say that nicely, if you want to have a nice life in the next 10 years. And then phase three is really about wealth building. So it's

taking everything that you've learned in phase one and two. Some people skip right over phase two and they just phase one and then they go on to the wealth building. Because the other thing that happens is women sometimes are really great at staying out of debt, but they're not great at building wealth, and they don't know what to do. Yeah, I've seen that too. I feel like a lot of the conversations I've seen over the years, especially that are targeted to women is the and this was my experience to what why I was kind of I felt a little bit late to the party with the wealth building phase and just getting comfortable with investing was a lot of the information that's targeted to women specifically is about maybe the emotional side of things, budgeting, cash flow, debt, and then that's kind of the end of the conversation. And as we've been seeing over the past few years, I think as there's just been

more maybe fintech or access or more information about investing. I think it's becoming a little more democratized and doesn't seem like as much of a boys club as it did when I first started learning about this 10 years ago, which thank goodness, because yeah, when I first started, I'm like, well, I'll learn about investing later, or I'm just not good with investing. And that is, you know, the biggest, I think, element that's kind of missing for women to kind of get to that next level is the investing side of things. But yeah, for so long, we just were never invited to that conversation. Yeah, I know. I know. Don't even get me started on that side. But it's interesting because when women invest, amazing things happen. Like when you look at the

power of compounding, which women who are multitaskers particularly can understand it because they're like, oh, I'm a really great leverager of my time. I can do four things in the same time it takes somebody else to do. And so when they can understand that when they can make their money do that same thing, wow, it just unleashes amazing investing for women. Absolutely. No, and I think one of the things that really struck me with your whole book was really the overall message that women need to be independent and we need to take care of ourselves. And I feel like, you know, for years and years and years, and this could just like historically, women were the caretakers, but we, you know, and then we would, you know, if there's any room left, then we would take care of ourselves. But it's so important for us to take care. I feel like that's something that I've been really embracing and just really recognizing. It's like we need to take care of ourselves first so then we can become better caretakers, whatever form that is. But for so long, that was never, again, the conversation. It was like we got to take care of everybody else before us.

But it's how can we take care of anyone if we're not being taken care of? How can we move the next generation forward if we're not doing this work now yes and here's what's interesting is like there have been men in the past who've been and i'm talking specifically like heterosexual relationships right but it there have been men in the past who've been very threatened by that idea but what's interesting is men who are amazing partners love championing their women on to do all the things. And what happens is when a woman's taking care of herself financially, and a man's taking care of himself financially, and they're working together to raise children

or whatever. And this is true in all sorts of other relationships, too. I'm not, I just was using the term men. So I was referring to like old school men feeling threatened by women. But even in a same sex relationship, right, when both partners are individually taking care of themselves, and they have common goals, as a couple, they will go so much further faster. But when one partner is limiting the other, it creates like, like you have one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake, and your vehicle won't get anywhere. And what's interesting is when women understand, or any, like when both partners, I should say, understand the power of money and how it works and where the finances are going,

if something happens to the primary person who has typically run the finances, the family will continue to move forward because the other partner can step up quickly. When there's been like a lack of access to information or finances or whatever, and something happens, they might think they're protecting their partner from the worries or the stress. But all they've done is just pile it on because now this person has no idea what they're doing. They don't have, it becomes so scary. And we see this in, you know, where there's been They don't have, it becomes so scary. And we see this in, you know, where there's been a, you know, somebody's passed on or something like that,

right? It's so tragic, because then the partner that's left is like, not only trying to grieve and deal with a funeral or deal with all the other stuff that's going on, but they literally are like, how am I going to get groceries for the kids? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm loving what I'm seeing, especially with the, you know, the younger generations of, you know, millennials and Gen Z being more of that mindset that it's not like this person in the relationship takes care of the money and this person takes care of the family. It's, I mean, what I've found, I've been in a, you know, with my husband for like, I don't know, 14 years or something. It's getting to that point where I'm like, I can't remember. But one thing that we've always done since like the get go is making sure that we are equal partners and we support each other because I mean, as you know, if you've been in a long term relationship, you'll realize there's

certain times where yeah, someone's maybe not working. And so someone has to kind of step up, or there's just like an imbalance. So the other person needs to step in for into kind of a different role like there's it's always like evolving and so you also need to just adapt because just life will throw so many different things at you if we had those traditional roles where it's like I'm just doing this and he's just doing that it just wouldn't work because we need to be able to kind of jump in and play different roles at different times and then also then the pressure is off the other person. Like I've had conversations with my husband. And part of one thing he doesn't didn't really like about kind of like the traditional stereotype of being a, you know, man is, you know, that he had to be the provider, like that idea provider,

that's a lot of pressure to put on one person to provide for an entire, you know, partnership or family. And I think that needs to go away. Because it's like, well, number one, women can provide to everyone can come provide for themselves. And also it's empowering to be able to provide for yourself and, or sometimes jump in to provide for the family and, you know, kind of give and take. But I feel like, yeah, we need to kind of get rid of all these different gender roles. I'm just all about like, let's just rethink everything. Cause I think, think you know we're in a different yeah world right now and we need to kind of think about things a bit differently I'm curious because you did mention you know the pandemic that had a big impact on you writing your book what have

you seen have you seen any kind of thing different like the past two years have been so interesting to see the different conversations the different, you know, inventions in just like the personal finance world. What has your experience been seeing some of the conversations going on? Like what have you seen anything changed or just things being amplified? Well, what's been interesting is like just like what you were talking about with the, you know, millennials or Gen Z, like they've realized like my parents are not right about a lot of things, including me. So they're really looking at things from a quality of life perspective. So there are a lot more sort of financial courses

or programs or apps or things that are really helping people manage their finances, like in their own time, in their own space, like not in the boomer way that, you know, has happened in the past. So that's been really cool. But also like the level of resourcefulness that people are bringing, because suddenly now, when you know, everything shifted, and everybody was told to stay home, or there was like this thing of like, is it worth it for me to go back to work or just take this, you know, in Canada, the CERB payment or whatever. It really forced people to go, wait a second, why am I working for this jerk of a boss? Or why am I doing this grind? Like, what else could I do in order to earn that amount of money? And so we're

seeing people like, step up and be really resourceful and innovative. And even things from like little Facebook marketplace type, like businesses or whatever, where people are, you know, just creating crafts or doing things and other people stepping up to support that has been really cool because I think the main piece that we've been missing historically through this whole, like, you know, graduate from high school, get a giant student loan, although you're the exception to that because you also, like, were like a unicorn when it comes to that stuff. But most people get a giant student loan, right? Then they do this degree that they may not even like, but at the end of it, they feel like they ought to work in because they spent so much time and money on it.

Then they get into a job they hate and they get a mortgage in a community they don't necessarily love and they feel trapped forever. And what the pandemic did was it taught younger people like, wow, that idea sucked. Like, I don't want to do what my parents did. And so they're really coming at it from a reverse perspective, which I think is brilliant. They're going, what do I want this life to feel like? What are the experiences I want to have? Who do I want to surround myself with?

Where do I want to go in the world? What do I want to do? And then they're going, how can I make that happen? So they're reverse engineering it, which I think is like the most ingenious thing. But there's, you know, there's other fun things too, right? Like, like the air fryer. I mean, that's pretty cool too. There's stuff like that. I Like, like the air fryer. I mean, that's pretty cool too. There's stuff like that.

I know everyone has an air fryer. I don't have one, but I like, honestly, the more people talk about it, the more I'm like, should I, should I not? I feel like that is a really great lead into just some of the things that you talk about your book. Cause I feel like that is the perfect way to really get started with your finances is starting with the, whoa, wait, what do I actually want in life? Because I think, like you kind of mentioned, too many people focus on the math side of things, the numbers. But numbers aren't sexy. They're not motivational. You need to have a bigger kind of vision that'll get you excited to actually implement some of the maybe not as exciting things like paying down your debt, having a budget and things like that. But you know, you do need to have that really exciting thing to work. I mean, for me, that's always been it. And sometimes and also like being open to like

that vision of what you want your life to be may shift, maybe you're single right now, and you have this vision, and then you meet someone, you're like, Oh, I think my vision is kind of changing, because I want to incorporate the new this new person into my vision. So also being open to adapt. I think that's a really cool thing that I've seen with the younger generations. They're really good at adapting because we have no choice, right? Yes. You know, but I'm curious now kind of getting to some of the practical side of things. What are some of the things, you know, in your book that have worked for a lot of people that you've helped over the years that you want to make sure people know about? Well, I think the

big thing that people have figured out, and this was my own light bulb moment too, was when I realized like, oh, the budget doesn't have to be perfect. Like I think when we teach budgeting, we think, okay, so here's, you're going to set out your budget and then you're going to follow it to a T and at the end of the month, if everything went exactly according to plan, you get a gold star. But I realized, like after talking to a number of financial people, like the budget never ever works out exactly as you plan it. Like have you ever had a budget go exactly? No. Never.

I realized that. I was like, why don't people tell me all that? Because I was like, I kept thinking I was failing at it. And instead I realized, oh, it's more of like a batting average where I don't have to hit everyone. I just have to do better than I did before. Or I have to, building wealth, basically, the budget's job is just to make the net worth go up. And when I got that, I was like, oh, now I get why there's budgeting, like now I can do this. And so then when we get into things like, we have this thing called, you know, the squeeze technique, which I once googled and to make sure it was like, not a, you know, trademarked or whatever. And Google said, do you mean the squeeze method? And I was like, I don't know, do I and I clicked on it. And that was like a, not a, you know, trademarked or whatever. And, and Google said, do you mean the squeeze method? And I was like, I don't know, do I? And I clicked on it. And that was like a premature ejaculation technique. So I was like, no, I don't mean that at all.

Don't mean that at all. But, but that idea is like, you just take what you can and you squeeze out of the budget. So it's not like, like, I think historically what we've taught people is you go to your job and then you have, you know, $500 come off your paycheck automatically every month and go into investing, which is great. But younger people, we don't have those steady paychecks. We I said we as if I'm one of the I'm an old, I'm an old goat, don't listen to me. But they, you know, they don't have those steady regular paychecks anymore. Sometimes they're entrepreneurial, or they're, you know, they've got like a side job or like they've got fluctuating income of some kind. And so that strategy doesn't work because some months that's your whole paycheck and you got to still live.

So the squeeze technique is really about going, how much can I get out of the budget this month? Not like living, like, listen, I get a chai latte every day come hell or high water, no matter what my financial circumstances are, right? You might have something for you that you just love, bubble tea that you're going to have no matter what, like, have at or I'm never going to say take your bubble tea money and put it away, right? Like, but you got to figure out for you in the context of each day, like you could go, oh, you know what, I'm actually not using these headphones anymore. I'm going to sell them, get 30 bucks, boom, I'm going to put it into my investment right now. And you can do that from your phone, from the app. So just understanding even how like micro-investing

can really leverage wealth in the long term is like, I think the thing that most people were blown away by. It doesn't have to be a huge lump sum every month. It can just be even a little bit every day, but add it up consistently over time. It gets to be really fun. And you still get that same dopamine hit you would if you were like, in my case, like buying Lululemons. I get such a high going into Lululemon. Oh my gosh, I want to touch all the scuba hoodies. I want to like touch all the wonder unders. Like I'm like, but instead when I can go, oh, I'm going to take this money and I'm going to buy Lululemon stock, or I'm going to do something else with it. I get that same dopamine hit and it's better for my long-term financial well-being. Yeah.

Sometimes it's about finding, yeah, you know, a different way to get that same feeling. Like, yeah, I feel like once I finally really understood investing and realized that sometimes contributing to your, like your TFSA, your RSP and seeing your net worth grow over time, or even like getting that, you can kind of get that dopamine hit, your debt you know go down it's the same feeling as buying something if anything it's a better long longer lasting feeling because it has a longer impact whereas honestly like especially i just moved into my new house and of course i've been a little spendy because i'm like oh finally i have a bigger kitchen i can buy like you know some of these appliances i've always wanted oh yeah you gotta get the KitchenAid mixer yeah I did I did I did get the mixer what color did

you get something I've dreamed of always I got pink I needed to get a really cute little pink KitchenAid mixer something I've dreamed of since I was like in my 20s being like one day when I eventually have a kitchen big enough to have one I'm gonna get a really cute uh mixer but it's one of those things where it's like I was dreaming about this KitchenAid mixer for like a decade. And I'm like, finally, I can treat myself. And it's not a cheap thing, but I hope it'll last me for like my lifetime. You get it. And then that feel like it's gone. Whereas like when I contribute to my investments and see my net worth, that feeling of excitement, like, oh, just the possibilities of what this means for my future. It lasts a lot longer than buying anything.

But that's just like every time I buy something, it's like it's really that moment of anticipation and then you get it and then that feeling kind of dissipates pretty quickly. So trying to find something else to replace that, the buying of things. But also, like you said, I think it's so smart to also think of things in a way, whereas how can I use the things I currently have to, you know, that aren't maybe I'm not using, how can I sell, you know, sell these things? Maybe, you know, my trash is someone else's treasure. And how can I use that money to, to better myself? We've been doing a lot of, uh, selling some of our plate, uh, you know, furniture that doesn't fit on a Facebook marketplace. It's

been, that is a dopamine hit. It's being someone else want you to think that you're like, I can't wait to get rid of this thing. I know. And they come to your house and they take it like it's amazing I know it's a and in my mind I'm like I'd give away this for free but I'm not gonna yeah and you know that's such a cool point too like when sometimes people are like gosh I just don't have any money to invest but like you can create money from places like Facebook marketplace because we've got people in the in the get the hell out of debt program who go online and get stuff for free, like you're talking about. And then they like they fix it up, or they they clean it, and then they take a good photograph of it. And it just, you know, makes it like they make a cute little background or whatever. And

then they sell it for like 5, 10, 15 bucks. But they're doing this over and over and over again. And they're getting $30 a day, which invested over, you know, 30 years of your lifetime is like 1.3 million bucks, right? So it's like, and it can be a fun hobby, you know, like, I have a friend, actually, who, you know, similar to lots of people during the pandemic, she lost her job, because it was in the event space, unfortunately. And so she was one of the first people to get laid off. And it was really hard for for a while. It was during 2020. That was a really difficult time for so many people and she she could not find any other work and then she got resourceful and I think she was

just like you know wanted something to do and started yeah kind of finding things like either finding things curating things and then reselling them on Facebook marketplace or finding things and refurbishing them and now you know this has now been I guess almost two years since she started doing this or maybe a year and a half or something. She still continues to do it. She has a job, but she still does this on the side because she loves doing it and she's really good at it. And it's like, how cool is that? Like take, you know, really turning those lemons into lemonade.

And then, you know, she's discovered this whole new, you know, hobby and kind of side business that really brings her a lot of joy, which is pretty cool to see. Well, the CRA is going to come after her now because it's a business, but good for her. That's really great. I think she's cool with that. Yeah, I think that's cool too. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. It's one of those things where it's like, I always find like, especially as a millennial who experienced the recession and then this time, if you can figure out ways to really really turn those lemons into lemonade it's just going to make you stronger and just like these hard times are just going to make you so much more grateful for the good times and I feel like we're already we're getting there we're starting

to kind of climb out of it but having a good I think uh perspective on things and and mentality is really key which I know you go into a lot of your book again it's not just about the math it's really about yourself your feeling and just know, putting yourself first and having that positive mindset. Well, one way that you can like, if you ever wanted to test yourself, and you were like, you know, like, how good am I at like, the mindset piece is we do this, like $10 challenge every now and then where we're like, okay, take $10 and you have to turn it into 100 within however many days, 30 days or whatever. And the rules are you can't do something you're already doing and you can't like sell something that you already have. So you have to get really resourceful. And what it

unlocks in people's brains in terms of opportunity and possibility is amazing. And when they realize how quickly they can do that, and then they realize they can lather, rinse, repeat, and potentially make money at it, it changes a lot of things. And we had a girl, a woman, her name is Alyssa, and she paid off $206,000 in the Get the Hell Out of Debt program, like just was highly, highly leveraged in her life. And she did it over, I think, three years or something like that. Very faster than a consumer proposal would have ever done. But what she did in the $10 challenge is she was like, gosh, I don't have anything. Like I can't figure it out. I'm not crafty. I'm whatever. But she decided, okay, does anybody need any writing or editing done? And she was working

in a completely different industry, but she just like felt like writing came easy to her. So she started taking like these little writing jobs and of course turned her $10, which I think was a flyer at her workplace. I was like, you didn't even, you could have spent $0 and made a Facebook post, but whatever, good for you, right? And she, so she started doing writing and like, and then got asked to ghost write because it was so good. And then got asked to like write. So she now, she ended up quitting her job and because she quickly within a couple of months had replaced her income at her job and realized, oh, I'm actually a writer. That's why this is so easy for me. But because it was low stakes, right? It's $10, turn it into a hundred. It's, it doesn't feel as risky as like quitting your job to see if you're good at something. It allows you to kind of go,

can I get that kind of a return on my time or my money? And so I think like, if you're listening and you're like, you know, what could I do that? Just try that exercise, go, I'm going to turn $10 into a hundred in the next two weeks and see what happens. Because what you'll learn through that process is really the thing that you need to learn to get where you want to go. Yeah, I think often if we don't have a challenge like that, we don't really put our kind of creative minds out there. Like, you know, if your job isn't really creative, it's more, you know, structural or practical. Sometimes we, you know, we need to kind of step outside of what we're used to and really creative. It's more, you know, structural or, or practical. Sometimes we, you know, we need to kind of step outside of what we're used to and be creative. I mean,

that's sort of my story is I've done so many different jobs on the side of my day job just to make extra money. But also I've tried lots of different things. Some worked out, some did not. And it's, but there's low stakes because it's like, it's fine. I don't need this money to live, but I do like this money to help me, you know, pay off debt or to invest or save or what have you. But I think this is like, we're at such a great time in this world. Honestly, like when I think back, it's like everything you can do so many different things online, I was just looking online the other day at, you know, job postings. I'm like, you know, there's still like the great resignation. There's so many jobs out there. This is like,

so bizarre to me being like, again, like thinking back to 2009, when I was desperate to find anything I had a degree and people wouldn't even hire me to be a receptionist. And I'm like, because there's like, sorry, there's like 50 applications. You're like, great. It's like, this is actually a great as you know, kind of not, you know, perfect as the world is, there's still so many great opportunities. And but again, it comes back to that like you've got to have that kind of abundance you know mindset to be like there are opportunities out there I just have to kind of think a bit differently maybe put my kind of creative hat on a little bit yes you nailed it yeah well hopefully this is giving me some people

um well I know there's there's so much really good stuff in your book. Like, again, like we didn't really talk too much about like the practical stuff. But I think sometimes you need to kind of, I think our conversation will lead people to your book to really get into the nitty gritty of some of your stuff to really apply. But you've got to have that mindset to be to be writing it open to kind of doing things differently. But I know your book is going to get a lot of people the hell out of debt. Before I let you go, is there anything else you want to make sure that listeners hear from you, you know, a little last piece of advice? No, but I love hearing your stories.

And so whether you've been in debt, or you are now or you're struggling or whatever, please always feel welcome to reach out because I just love you know sharing in the experience of everything especially because we're at such a weird time in history so um always happy to chat and and like tag me in your stuff on social media especially if you pay stuff off I love to celebrate with you and um I just I I'm the only thing I'd leave you with is like this is the year like if you're thinking of if you've been carrying consumer diet for six months or longer, like sometimes even people have carried it for years and years. Like this is the year you've got to really get serious about it because things are changing in the economy. Yeah.

So with that, where can people find you if they want to connect with you or contact you or follow you? I'm all over the internets at Erin Sky Kelly. Just you can Google that and Sky has an E in it. So it's E-R-I-N-S-K-Y-E Kelly. But I'm on all the socials. I'm all the places. So if you just pop that into the Google machine, we'll find each other. Perfect. And I guess everyone can just grab a copy of your book, Get the Hell Out of Debt, wherever books are available. Yeah, go to your small independent bookstore if you can, but it is especially since we're, you know, really at the beginning of this year, this will get people excited to do something different this year. And hopefully, one year from now, be like, I'm so glad I took those first steps.

I agree. I really do think this is a great year for that. What's your give me your like, what's your one thing for this year? Like you want everybody to do? Ooh, that's a good question. I'm still even trying to think of what my goals for this year are. But I'd say one thing that I try to do consistently, and I have since my my early 20s, because I'm naturally like an introvert and terrified of everything is to make like literally always step out outside my comfort zone and do things that make me really uncomfortable that I know will benefit me in the future. So do like, you know, there's, there's lots of challenges out there. It's like, do you know, one thing that scares you every day. I try to do

multiple things that scare me every single year. And, uh, it's terrifying, but it, it feels good after you've accomplished something. Even if you fail at it, you'll learn something. Yes. Oh gosh. that's genius advice. Love it. Thank you for that. I'm gonna carry that with me today. You've just inspired me to do something that I know I need to do and just haven't done. So I'm gonna take care of that today. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, thanks again for joining me on the show, Erin. It's been a pleasure having you on. Thank you. And that was episode 322 of the More Money Podcast with Erin Skye Kelly. You can find more information about her while in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com

slash 322 or 322. But also check out her website, erinskyekelly.com. That's spelled, you know, E-R-I-N-S-K-Y-E-K-E-L-L-Y.com. You can also can also of course follow her on the social medias. You can find her at ErinSkyKelly on Twitter and at GetTheHellOutOfDead on Instagram. She's also on TikTok. Look at that at ErinSkyKelly. There you go. So lots of things to share, including I'm going to be giving away a copy of her book. And then you know, some some updates I'd like to share with you. So don't go away. Just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode's sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by The Globe and Mail. If there's one thing I've learned over the years is that the most important investment

you can make is the one you make in yourself. But learning about actual investments is pretty important too. That's why I've been reading The Globe and Mail for close to two decades now. And I've got to say, it's an investment that has always paid me dividends. The Globe is not only one of my favorite resources for business and investing news, actionable personal finance advice, and helpful tools and calculators, it is also my go-to for understanding how major economic trends and world events impact my life and my finances. From how Russian sanctions are affecting gas prices and inflation, to the impact of the Bank of Canada's rate hike on mortgages and debt. The Globe helps me understand what's happening in the world

and what it means for me. Want to invest in yourself and start a new habit of reading The Globe and Mail every day like I do? Lucky for you, The Globe is offering listeners of The More Money Podcast a special subscription for unrestricted access to all of the content, tools, newsletters, and more at tgam.ca slash Jessica. Once again, visit tgam.ca slash Jessica to take advantage of this limited time offer. You can also learn more about how the Globe and Mail can help you become better informed by visiting globeandmail.com slash better informed. Okay, so first and foremost, of course, the giveaway. I'm doing a big book giveaway as I do every season of this show. And I'm going to be giving away a copy of Aaron's book, Get the Hell Out of Debt. And not only that,

I'm giving away a ton of other books. And just as a reminder, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contests. You can also just go to the show notes for any episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 322 is the show notes for this particular episode. But if you go to the contest page, you'll find I'm giving away now a total of eight books that includes Destroy Your Student Loan Debt by Anthony O'Neill, Elmer's Nine and Dine by Ryan Goldsman, Money Like You Mean It by Erica Alini, My Money, My Way by Kumiko Love, Financial Adulting by Ashley Feinstein, Gursley, The Revolution That Wasn't by Spencer Jacob, and The Financial Mindset Fix by Joyce Martyr. And yes, I have more episodes coming and more books that I'll be adding to this contest, but might as well just, you know, enter for your chance to win right now so you don't

forget and you, you know, get in there and get a chance. So besides all of that, what's going on with me? What is going on with me? Quite a bit, I feel like. It's like a lot of big projects that I'm slowly trying to wrap up. So as you may see, if you follow me on social media, which I highly recommend that you do, you can find all my social profiles in the footer for my website, JessicaMorehouse.com or just like Google me. But I have finally gotten new images for myself. It has been almost three years since I've gotten new photos, headshots, and I just don't look like that girl from 2019. And also a lot of things have happened since that photo shoot in September of 2019. Gosh,

the world has changed. And so yeah, if you follow me on social media, you'll see I've got a new profile photo, I've got new splashy header photos, which I'm very proud of. And yes, I did design them myself because I actually really like doing that. So that just means we're one step closer for me to launch my brand new website and so many other things to come. I'm, you know, in the process of updating all of my budget spreadsheets and even how I deliver them and like new video tutorials and all that good stuff. I'm making some new YouTube videos. So if you follow me on YouTube, then you will see I finally after like a three month hiatus, dropped a new episode or not episode video, used to the podcast. So lots of exciting things. I feel like I'm getting back into the swing of

things. And of course, I'm always, you know, kind of tweaking and working on my investing course, making it, you know, shinier and just more comprehensive. So if you want to learn more about that, just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash WBB. There is a link in the show notes for this episode, but that's where you can kind of learn what the outline is, see some testimonials from past students, and apply if it sounds like kind of up your alley. So go ahead and check that out. What else have I been working on so many things, some of some things are secret that I cannot share right now. But hopefully in the future, I will be Oh, yeah, one of the Oh, no, I think I've probably shared this

in the last episode. I can't remember feel I feel like I'm just kind of rambling and just sharing things that I've already shared. But one exciting thing was I was actually able to get back up on stage and do a speaking engagement. And it was the first time, even though there was no audience, it was still virtual, but I was up on stage. It was like such a crazy cool experience that I don't know. It was just like, oh my gosh, this is what like normal life kind of feels like, you know, not just like tucked in my house at my computer. It was really exciting. It just got me excited for like what's to come the rest of the year, hopefully good things and hopefully some traveling and just, you know, life. I just miss life a little bit. How about you? Yeah, me too. I feel like that's all I really got to share with you right now. But I've got, you know,

just to give you a little heads up where we're at in the podcast lineup. We've got a good two and a half months left of this show and then summer break for all of us, which we definitely deserve. And yeah, so lots of exciting episodes to come. You're going to really, really like it. I'm very, very proud of this season. So that is it for me. Thank you to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout. Have an amazing rest of your week. Have a good relaxing weekend. I'll see you back here next Wednesday with a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.