More Money Podcast - 328 How to Live in the Now and Still Save for the Future - Paris Woods, Author

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

This week’s episode is FULL of so many interesting topics including, debt, FIRE, privilege and so much more. I’m so excited to welcome author, Paris Woods to the podcast to share how we can all learn from her mistakes in her new book, The Black Girl’s Guide to Financial Freedom.  Paris Woods is a lifelong educator, first-generation and two-time college graduate of Harvard University. She’s currently completing her doctorate at the University of Texas at Austin. In her new book, The Black Girl’s Guide to Financial Freedom, Paris teaches readers how to live an abundant life now and continue to do so in the future through her simple personal finance principles. In this episode, Paris shares her approach to FIRE, why she’s so passionate about educating the black community about finance and why debt is the number one obstacle to your financial goals. I loved reading Paris’s book because it felt like having a chat with your best friend and I hope this episode leaves you with the same feeling! For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/328 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is episode 328 of the More Money Podcast. And I am your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. Goodness, welcome to May. How? How is it May? How is it almost June? How is it almost? I honestly had this the other day, realization that it is almost my birthday. And I'm not ready. I feel like I'm like just got comfortable with 35. Once I turned 36. I'm officially closer to 40 than 30. And I, I don't know if I'm okay with that. I'm not sure if I'm ready. I'm not sure. If I'm ready, these 30s are going by way too fast. But you know what, this episode isn't about me and my issues with aging. Instead, actually,

I have an amazing guest who I'm so excited to have on the show. I've got Paris Woods on the show. She is the author of The Black Girl's Guide to Financial Freedom. And I loved her book, and I'm so excited that she's on the show. So a little bit about Paris. She is a first generation college graduate of Harvard University and a lifelong educator having worked at some of the country's top institutions. She's the daughter of a wise mother who encouraged her to venture out into the world and make new mistakes. I love that. And Paris also learned the hard way how to manage your finances and achieve financial freedom. And through years of trial and error and the guidance of numerous fire experts,

you know, financial independence, retire early, Paris landed on some simple principles that completely turned things around for her financially and in her life. And her number one Amazon best selling book, The Black Girl's Guide to Financial Freedom teaches readers how to win financially while living a life they love. So like I mentioned, Paris not only went to Harvard once, she's a two-time graduate of Harvard University with a bachelor's degree in African American Studies and a master's degree in education policy and management. And she's currently completing her doctorate at the University of Texas at Austin. So in this episode, we're going to be discussing her journey towards financial freedom and also discuss some really important things. Let's talk about how it

is not the same path for all of us. Some of us start ahead of others. Privilege is real. Racism is real. There are some institutions that still exist to hold people down, especially people of color and the black community. And we need to talk about it Because without really acknowledging and discussing it, how can we move forward? How can we fix these discriminatory institutions? So lots of great stuff we're going to talk about in this episode. So before I get to that interview with Paris, here's just a few words I want to share about today's podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Oxio. Have you had it with the big internet providers in Canada? The contracts, constantly shifting prices, and customer service

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goes from network costs to how much the company actually profits. Not only that, Oxio's prices are typically lower than the average market price. So switching could mean more money in your pocket. It sure did for me. Want to give it a try too? Just visit Oxio.ca and use promo code MOREMONEY to try out Oxio for free for one month. It's as simple as that. Once again, visit Oxio.ca, that's O-X-I-O dot C-A, and use promo code MOREMONEY to try Oxio for free for one month. Welcome, Paris, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Awesome. Thanks for having me. You're so, so welcome. So you wrote the book, The Black Girl's Guide to Financial Freedom, Build Wealth, Retire Early, and Live the Life of Your Dreams. And you have a really interesting

background. I mean, also, like you're very educated, you're doing your PhD, are you still doing it? Yep, that's right. I just finished my qualifying exam. So Oh, wow. So and but you aren't like traditionally trained in, say, financial planning or anything like that. So I'm so curious what, you know, led to this, you know, big interest and passion in personal finance, you know, and what kind of led you to this point where you're like, I need to write a book for people, you know, who maybe don't see themselves in lots of the personal finance books out there on bookshelves. Absolutely. I definitely, I think, made a lot of mistakes throughout my life financially. And whenever I,

particularly when I speak to young people about my educational background compared with the financial choices that I've made, folks are often confused because those two things do not align. But I think it's a testament to the fact that we learn so little about personal finance in school. And so you can, you know, you can have a PhD, and still know so very little about how to manage your finances. And so for me, I, you know, I had to start doing research and reading books and blogs and all of that, in order to learn and I didn't start that journey until, you know, it's into my 30s. And so part of the motivation for the book was to sort of create a tell-all of all the mistakes that I made before I learned better and things I wish I had done differently and also how I was able to turn things around. So I'm hoping that the book feels relatable to folks who somehow made it to their 30s just like I did and are wanting to know how to create a different future. But also folks who

are like me, maybe that nerdy kid who's actually reading personal finance books when they're younger, who actually needs, you know, just some really good sound advice and for it to come from a relatable voice. So I definitely wanted to make sure that a story and a background like mine, a lot of the books that I read were not by folks who looked like me or who had, you know, stories that sounded like mine. And so I wanted to provide really solid information in a way that was relatable, and that could perhaps reach a new community. Absolutely. And yeah, like you've said, like I've been doing this podcast for almost seven years but i started you know my first personal finance blog over a decade ago and um it's like looking back i'm like yeah it was just a lot of you know old white men when i was trying to find personal

finance books and it's thank goodness that there actually has been a lot of progress and change where there's so many different people writing things which i think is so important and i like having people um you know on the show to kind of share their different perspectives and backgrounds, because I think they aren't, they haven't been represented for a very long time. And what I really loved in your book is you talked about some things that I don't think I've ever read in a personal finance book, which is so important, such as, you know, you talk about some of the kind of historical, you know, privilege inherent was, you know,

some people have it. And, you know, if you're from the black community, you just, yeah, you're not kind of getting that same kind of privilege, like you mentioned, and I don't think I've actually honestly heard about it before it was the term sharecropping. Do you want to kind of talk a little bit about that and how it had a huge impact on, you know, people who are, you know, have a black background or, you know, ancestors that were slaves and how it makes a huge reason why there is such income disparity. in undergrad. And so a lot of sort of Black history came to mind as I was putting together this book, written by Black women and hopefully reaching other folks in the Black community. I thought it was helpful to sort of bring in some of the historical perspective, both on, because there are huge disparities in terms of income, but also wealth in this country.

And so I wanted to think about some of the systemic barriers that I have prevented folks from my community, you know, from gaining access financially. And so as I was sort of thinking through both that historical context, but also some of the pitfalls of debt, the concept of sharecropping is something that came to mind for me. So of course, you know, following slavery, folks were allowed to remain on the land and were able to rent from their former sort of owners. And so I talk about sharecropping from the context of this sort of very inequitable system where folks had to borrow money and often found themselves in deep debt

to the landowners that they were renting from. And so that sort of created a parallel system that felt very much like slavery. And so due to debt, folks were not able to leave the land or sort of to advance economically. And that example really mirrored what I have been observing in terms of the role that debt plays today. And specifically, when I talk to peers and talk to families who have ambitions financially, it's often debt that is keeping them from either doing something really fun or taking time off from work or traveling or, you know, taking a big risk. And so we see a lot of the same outcomes in terms of the effect of debt tethering folks to jobs or to life circumstances that they would otherwise,

you know, seek to escape. Now, what do you think has changed now? Because it's obviously we don't have sharecropping anymore, but there's other forms of kind of predatory debt practices that are still in place that are, you know, affecting people, especially people in the black community. What kind of examples have you seen that you're like, we need to educate ourselves so we don't fall into that trap and then see this repeat over generations? Right? Well, debt is so sneaky. And I think it's so commonplace that we often we start categorizing debt and we think, well, some forms of debt are good and some are bad. You know, so most folks might identify something like a payday loan, right, as a form of predatory lending with incredibly exploitative interest rates and things like that.

Right. So you might say, OK, a payday loan is obviously a bad loan, but maybe a student loan is a good loan, right? And so that may be true in terms of sort of the interest payments and things like that. But one of the stories that I tell in the book, in my experience, you know, with student loans is that they can be just as sticky and sort of just as tethering. And for me, you know, I was making minimum payments. I probably took some forbearances and things like that. And after 10 years of paying on the loans, you know, the overall balance had barely, barely dented at all. And you sort of come to realize that student loans, even though it's for, you know, presumably a good cause, you know, educating ourselves, investing in ourselves, still can be a huge barrier financially. And we sort of see that with folks who are saying, well,

I wish I could buy a house, or I wish I might be able to do some other things, but I've still got student loans, you know, to pay off. And so my experience with debt has been just that all forms of debt are pretty tricky in terms of the trade-off between paying down debt versus being able to invest, which I think is the better choice. And so I'd much rather not have debt and have money and room in my monthly budget to invest rather than be paying off debt because I thought, well, at least it was good versus bad debt, right? All debt can sort of prevent us from some other goals. Well, yeah, you mentioned, you know, good debt versus bad debt and student loans has been considered good debt because, you know, like you said, it's good to educate yourself, but also it's basically you're paying now. So in the future, you can hopefully earn a higher income because it'll get you into a

better career. But things have changed so much because now and you talk about this in the book that now it's just kind of like to even get an entry level job, you need a degree. So it's not quite what it used to be like, you know, 20, 30 years ago where it's like, oh, wow, now you're kind of guaranteed a better job with better pay. Now it's like you. I mean, I got a degree and I was, you know, my first salary was barely covering my expenses. And so now it's just like, you just need one if you want to get

a certain job in a certain industry. And but, you know, a lot of people are just, you know, getting a ton of debt. And then like you said, paying, you know, those student loans back over 10 years, not seeing much of a shift, what are some things people can do to make sure because I feel the same way I feel like it has prevented so many people, I'm in my mid 30s. Now, so many people I know from buying a home starting to invest for the retirement, you know, over like a good decade, because they had this thing, and then all their other expenses, and there's nothing ever left over, what can people do to kind of put the wheels in motion, maybe it's too late for you if you're in your 30s, but you know someone who's in their 20s or you can think about your future children.

What can they do to kind of prevent this from happening? Absolutely. And I certainly relate to your experience of sort of the degree being maybe it's the key that unlocks the door, but it's not the only piece. It's not going to turn that doorknob or open the door for you. And so folks often will wonder, well, is it worth it to get a degree at all? And I'm certainly very biased in favor of going to college. And, you know, I've spent my career working in education and have seen a lot of the positive impacts of access to college for folks' sort of future economic outlook. So the question isn't, you know, is college worth it or not? It is, how could I go to college without going into debt? I think that is the better question that folks should ask

themselves if they're sort of at the beginning of this education journey and considering, you know, different ways to gain access. And there are so many different ways, actually. So it's like once we ask the right question, we can get to interesting answers, spanning, you know, different scholarship programs or even, you know, volunteer opportunities that then have education awards at the end of them. So a lot of creative ways to go to school for free. Myself, coming from a low income family, you know, I went to a college that had really strong financial aid. And so I just went for free because they had really strong need based aid and my

family needed the money. Nice. Which is another path. Yeah. So I went to Harvard full on a full need based scholarship. And, you. And there are plenty of folks who wouldn't even apply because they think, well, it's entirely too expensive and haven't even taken into account what the financial aid awards might be. So I would encourage folks, first of all, to be creative and to not assume they need to go into debt in order to go to college. And then once you're on the other side of it, so I went to college for free, and I took out my loans for graduate school for my master's degree. And if I could go back, obviously, I would go back and not do that. But if I could go back just a few years earlier,

I would have put a much greater emphasis and effort into paying off the loans as opposed to assuming, you know, that making the minimum payments is fine and that I could focus on other things. So I think if you do have loans, my advice would be to do whatever you can to get your loans paid off as soon as possible. And you also talked about in the book, and I feel like this might be more of an American thing because we don't really have like the Ivy League universities quite like the US. But, you know, a lot of people, you know, kind of assume if I go to one of these kind of top tier schools again, then making the calculations, I'm going to earn more money because I'll get a better job. But you kind of talk about like that may not depending on what you're studying may not actually mean, you know, anything. You're just paying more money to get the same degree.

Yeah. And it could end up feeling, you know, it's you're just paying more money to get the same degree. Yeah. And it could end up feeling, you know, it's like folks talk about golden handcuffs. Yeah. Where you've gone into debt. And so now you have to work a job in an industry that you may not be interested in just because of the salary, which I still don't think is a great trade off. Like Life is short, and you don't know how much time you have. So I am a big, big fan and proponent of living your very best life now and later. And how can we use our finances as a tool, so not something to help us delay gratification

until this future when we're finally rich, but how can we live a rich life now and make wise financial choices so that we can continue to have this sort of abundant financial experience later. Now, speaking of debt, because you have a good big section, and I actually really appreciated it about auto loans. And again, I feel like that's also another thing that people kind of assume is good debt, because typically you buy a car for, you know, access just to get around, or it's like, I need this to commute to my job. And so people, you know, like, oh, everyone buy a car for you know access just to get around or it's like i need this to commute to my job and so people you know like oh everyone has a car these days but

you actually talk about some of the big benefits of not owning a car and again how it can be that kind of tether to like stay at this one job that you hate because you have to pay your car loan and it's just this kind of cycle i mean i personally haven't owned a car since i was in college my husband owns one um but he has bought it out like a decade ago. And we're going to just drive that into the ground kind of thing, that sort of thing. But you kind of talk about some of the pros and cons. You want to kind of discuss why you want to make that such a big message in the book? I did.

I think, you know, of all the forms of debt, I feel like car loans are probably the most common. Like most folks I talk to, regardless of their economic status or whatever else they've got going on in their life, have a car loan. And if you ask folks, why aren't they investing? I don't have money in my budget. And I look at the budget and there is a car loan there. So I thought this was a really important thing to discuss because if we could solve this issue and if we could sort of free up an extra $400, $600, $800 in someone's budget, that would make a huge, huge difference.

And, you know, I reflected on my own experience buying, you know, a brand new car, right? You know, as soon as I got out of college, and it being one of the hugest regrets, it's definitely something if someone said, could you go back and change anything, I would have not bought that car. And, you know, I had to pay $400 a month for six years, which is just crazy. I mean, that's really crazy when you think about it. And usually, for example, I was given a presentation to some college students about a week ago, and they're really curious about this. And they sort of were like, well, how in the world could you buy a car without a loan, right? And so I think it's so commonplace

to finance a car that we don't even think about what the alternatives might be. So I just wanted to even get folks thinking about other ways to get by in the world without a car loan, which could mean not owning a car like you, right? And I give examples of folks who are CEOs and otherwise get themselves around by a Lyft or biking. And so car ownership, of course, is not necessarily a requirement, but also ways to own a car without going into debt. And so I share the story of once that first car I had finally died just a couple of years ago, how I was able to use my savings to buy a used car in cash and how grateful I've been to both have a car, like a pretty nice car, but not have that car loan.

And so hopefully that provides an example that other folks will feel confident following. Yeah, I think yeah, what I got a lot from your book was the idea of changing kind of your mindset, but also the expectations that society has, like we all, you know, kind of grow up thinking this is what you're supposed to do based off what our parents did. And a lot of it is like buying a home, get a car, get that degree, all that stuff. But what about doing something crazy, even if you are like a CEO making really good salary? Why do you need a car just because you assume that you need one because everyone else has one? It's like, that's a hard thing to actually put into practice. But it is something I think we need to reflect more on and actually ask ourselves,

do I actually need a car? And if I didn't have one, are there alternatives? And there's never been a better time than now to find an alternative of transportation or anything, really. But also like how, how could that affect me, my money, my budget, like, you know, having an extra four or $500 a month that can have a huge impact. I know you talk a lot about in the book as well, kind of your, you know, experience with the fire, the fire community and financial freedom. And, you know, $400 a month can go a long way to, you know, really achieving that goal of retiring early.

So I want to kind of touch on that because I thought that was also a big emphasis in the book. And obviously, because it talks about financial freedom in the title of the book, what, you know, the fire community is very fascinating to me. A lot of it I find very extreme and intense but it sounds like the vibe I got from you was you're very much about balance like living today and tomorrow not about some of the people who are like living extreme lives so they can retire by 30 or something like that so I'm curious what is your kind of idea about fire

or what what things are you at least like gleaning from and then applying to your life that you would kind of suggest other people maybe look into? I think my favorite thing about the FIRE movement is just the simplicity of the investing strategy. I think so many folks are afraid of investing because they think it's incredibly complicated and they've got to spend all this time researching stocks. And so there's this sort of misunderstanding about how investing works. And the result is that most folks have no investments. And most folks who do invest, they just have money in their 401k, but they are completely hands off. They don't even know what the money is invested in. And so I appreciate the FIRE movement sort of emphasis on index fund investing, sort of long-term buy and hold, like nearly impossible to mess it up, right? The only thing you could do wrong is take the money out. If you just leave your money in an index fund for the rest of your life, you will build wealth.

It is just, it's just that simple. And so I appreciate that. And it's sort of good. It's a really easy way to understand how investing works and how to benefit from the system. And then in addition, you know, this, this idea of financial freedom is really appealing to me sort of having more choices. And for me, you know, I've attempted to do work that's really meaningful to me. I love my job. I love my career. You know, I love working in education. But I know lots of folks who don't like work. And it's so common. So, you know, hear folks be looking forward to Friday and hating Monday. And so it raises the question about what you could do to sort of take ownership of your time, ownership of your labor.

And the FIRE movement is probably the straightest path. It's the path that's probably most accessible to folks because you don't need to go start some crazy business or win a million dollars or whatever it is. And so it's a pathway to freedom for the average person, which is really appealing to me. And I sort of advise folks, even if you love your job, why not at least put yourself on the path so that in the future you don't need your job and you're simply working there because you want to, which creates a completely different experience of work. I think it makes work more enjoyable. It makes life more enjoyable. And so I sort of think FIRE is probably the financial plan that every person could benefit from following.

Definitely. And it makes sense why you have such a big focus on, you know, credit and debt in the beginning of your book, because really, those are kind of the things that are stopping everyone from having enough cash flow, so they can actually invest to reach financial independence. Once you've got that kind of nice and organized, and you've got a good cash flow system and budget and everything like that, then it does free up a lot more opportunity for you to then actually invest. But I think usually that, and you probably experienced that too, is that is kind of the number one excuse people have. It's like, I don't have any extra money. Where am I going to get this extra money? And really, you know, from all the people I've talked to in FIRE, it's in general, like a lot

of people are high income earners. So that makes that just gets them to either like they have a save a bigger nest egg or they're able to achieve that number sooner. But I've also interviewed people who, you know, had regular jobs. They were teachers. They just, you know, were regular folks with regular incomes and were able to even, you know, maybe they can't retire by 40. But even retiring by 50 is like that's, you know, aspirational, that's still something good. And I feel like a lot of people, especially when they're just getting started, and you know, maybe picked up their first, you know, personal finance book or just getting interested. It just feels, you know, you know, finance feels heavy, and really intense. And, you know, peeking into their finances and dealing with their debt seems, you know, just like,

no one wants to do it. But if you have something that's exciting, and that's usually what I hear from people, it's like, I want to do the fire thing, because I like it's something to look forward to. And I feel like anyone can kind of take a piece of that, and, you know, kind of create whatever version they want. And I know in the book, you talk a lot about to really setting your own goals. And I think in this world, where we're always on social media, comparing ourselves to others, it's hard to stay on our own path and think about what do I actually want. So I'm curious what you do kind of talk about this in the book, but you know, what are some of your pieces of advice for really defining your own goals and your path for your life and trying to stick to it? Because I think that's the hardest part. Yeah, I think it's probably the question we think of last,

like one day in the future. Yeah, but I'm old, I'll retire and do X or Y or Z. And so I'd like to start with asking that question first. Like if you are retired tomorrow, if you no longer needed to work, what would you really want to spend your time doing? And so, you know, often, you know, I play around and dabble in the career advice space and I work in workforce development. And so we've started to encourage kids, don't follow your passion because your passion doesn't pay, right? You need to get a job. You need to make money. And so what if, you know, you put yourself in a financial position where you really could follow your passion and really could spend your time doing the things that you love? And I just imagine so much more creativity and innovation and happiness. I think the world would be a better place if folks are spending their time the way they want it to,

as opposed to, you know, the drudge and daily grind of needing to make money to pay the bills kind of thing. So that's what I would encourage folks to do is to ask, you know, go through the thought exercise and ask yourself what you would do if you didn't have to work for money. And then, you know, of course, we can align our financial plan to that and maybe build a roadmap to get there in five or 10 years. But how can you start to incorporate some of those things into your life today? I'm a big fan of today and not waiting. And so how can we start to pull some of that vision into your daily experience?

Absolutely. And I think, yeah, a lot of it comes down to, you know, what are your personal values? Because I think that the hardest thing is like when you really are setting yourself on that path to fire. And I know I haven't mentioned it. But if you're a longtime listener of the show, you don't know what fire is. But it's, you know, financial independence, retire early. But basically, I think a lot of people, you know, once you create that kind of vision, you're like, okay, great. This is the number I want to hit. This is the age I want to reach fire by. And now I need to actually implement it. That can also be the intimidating part. And usually, it's intimidating, because you have to look at your real numbers,

you have to make some realistic, you know, decisions. And usually you have to cut back. I like for me, like when everyone's just like, Oh, how do I, you know, do it? It's like, I mean, it's simple math, you got to cut back and you earn more, like those are the things you need to do. But I feel like the best way to implement that is like you kind of said get clear on what do you want your life to look like and so when you are cutting back some things or you know make some making some different choices like working at a different job for a bit or working a second job becomes a little bit easier because you have something that you're working towards but hopefully the things that you're cutting back on aren't

actually that important to you but I think that comes back to us really, we just don't spend, I think, enough time really thinking about what we're doing. We're just running through the motions every single day. Yeah. And if you don't take the time to figure out what you wish you would be doing, then you'll reach retirement and be bored to bits and feel a lack of purpose. And you might just go back to working. So it's not one thing it's not to do in sequence, but it's to do simultaneously. And start doing the things you think you would enjoy doing full time in retirement

so that when you get there, you actually have a sense of purpose and it's everything that you hoped. Exactly. I mean, one of the things that I've definitely, you know, experiences. Yeah, I think that's such good advice is start those things now because you may realize you actually don't like doing them. There's so many things where I'm like, oh, I totally wish I could do this, you know, as a bigger part of my business. And then I do it like I hate it. So start it. Like you said, it's like it's about doing things now, living your life now and not just

you know planning for the the future because yeah that's kind of the big uh the big thing i see or the pitfall from some people who just focus so hard on reaching that number and not but what happens after because you really do need to know not just like i'll have this plan but also like test it out and see if you actually do want to travel the world it sounds nice but like do you actually like moving around that much you know what what I mean? Right, right. May not be up your alley. So, you know, just because you have so much great advice, it really does feel like reading the book that I'm, you know, have, I don't know, like a best friend kind of just giving me like, oh, don't do some of the things that I wish I didn't do. Please follow this other path. What are some other, you know, key things you really want to, you know, get readers to get from your book? And

also, like, specifically, because, you know, again, in the title, it's the Black Girl's Guide to Financial Freedom. What do you really, you know, hope to, you know, convey to your Black readers? I think that personal finance has the ability to be incredibly empowering. So I think of folks, either my mom or sort of folks in my family, and how disempowering the world can feel and sort of how disempowering working a job that probably isn't the best fit or that doesn't value your labor can be. And so one of the motivations that I have and the reason why I tell so many stories about folks like my mom is because I want folks to both feel inspired that they can make different choices. But at the heart of it all, I want folks to experience a different version of life and sort of experience empowerment and freedom and the ability to say no to people and to things and to jobs. And I think, you know, we live in an era where this is possible.

And one of the sort of epithets that I refer to is this idea that we are our ancestors' wildest dreams. And I sort of see that a lot and read that a lot. It's on t-shirts and posters and things like that. But when we really think about it, sort of what might our ancestors have dreamed for us? And I think freedom is at the heart of that. And I think about all the sacrifices that have been made by the folks who came before me. And even my mother's advice for me not to repeat the same mistakes. It's like folks in our family have already done enough and positioned you to have new opportunities, make new mistakes, go out and live your own life, you know, but take advantage of what has happened and what the folks before you have done. And so, you know, if our ancestors work themselves to the bone and hustle and grind culture and all of this to give us these freedoms, then we sort of have to take this next step to take advantage of that. And it involves some mindset shifts that it involves sort of giving up on some of the things society thinks we need to do

or must do in order to experience a level of freedom that I think we deserve. And so I'm hoping that that message comes through as well. So we've got some practical tools and tips and sort of solid financial advice, but I hope people also walk away inspired and empowered and ready to sort of take charge of their lives and finally have the ability to say no to the things they want to and to say yes to the things that they want to. And I hope people live, you know, glorious, abundant, exciting lives. The kind of life I want for myself, I want everyone in my community to have access to that as well. Now, one last question. I'm curious because you are working on your PhD, but you're also working towards FIRE. Like, what does your path look like? And was your PhD just for your career or was it just for you?

I am a nerd. So am I. And I just embrace this about myself. I always knew that I would do a doctoral degree. And so it was just a matter of sort of when and with whom. The program that I'm doing, it is education. It's higher education leadership. And I chose the program because it has a foundation in social justice. And how do you position yourself to lead from a foundation of social justice, which I think is what my life and what my career has

been about. So it is purely academic. And I talk about in the book, I'm not taking out any debt to do it, okay? I'm just cash flowing it and paying those tuition bills as they come. But sort of a lifelong dream that I've always wanted to do. And so it's something I'm able to check off my list and also contribute to the academic community. I'm specifically looking at the impact of high school internships on students' post secondary plans. So all about how do we help young people get clarity on what they want to do with their lives, get exposure, get access to the networks and information that they need to pursue college if that's the right path for them, to go to pursue college, if that's the right path

for them to go right into a career, if that's the right path for them, but really to live the life of agency that that these young people deserve. And that I think everyone who works in the education system, you know, wants for them. Amazing, amazing. And just to get a sense of what is your, you know, what's your fire, I guess, kind of destination look like? Do you have a certain timeline or are you kind of, because I know you talk about, you know, what is it? There's lean fire, coast fire. There's another fire. Yeah, slow fire.

I can't keep up with all the fires. There are a million. There are a million. You can do it any way that you want to. I definitely put myself on the slow fire path. And what's that mean again? For me, it's, well for me, particularly in particular, I'm sort of hoping to put half. So I take half of what I earn and invested and spend half today.

And so it's for me a balanced, a much more balanced approach, as opposed to sacrificing heavily today and hoping to retire tomorrow. But I also have tried to bring into my everyday existence the things I hope to spend more time doing if I were no longer working. So I serve on several boards. I love providing advice. It's been fun to write a book. Maybe I'll write another one.

I love going on vacation and spending time with my nephews. And so I try to sort of incorporate all of those things that I love and people that I love into my life now. And then the hope is to gradually grow and expand the time I spend on those things. And then at some point in the future, I probably will stop working. I think when I feel like I'm no longer adding as much value or that it's not as much fun and spend more time doing those other things that I'm kind of doing on the side now. Yeah, I like that. I like that more than Yeah, like the, you know, kind of traditional fire where it's like, nope, there's a cutoff date, and you can't earn any new income. It's like,

create whatever makes sense for you, maybe the slow path where you can, because then, yes, like you kind of mentioned, you can kind of test out with more free time, what do I want to spend my time doing and see what what you do actually want to do? Because you may know, yeah, I just like mentioned, there's so many things that you're like, what do I want to spend my time doing and see what, what you do actually want to do. Cause you may know. Yeah. I just like mentioned it. There's so many things that you're like, Oh, I bet I'd love that. And they try it. You're like, actually, I hate it. I want to spend all my time gardening. It's not as fun as you think, you know? Um, so thank you so much for, for being on this show. Um, where can people find you online or grab a copy of your book? Yeah, so the book is available in ebook,

paperback, Audible. So several different formats. Amazon's probably the easiest place to find it, but other retailers carry it as well. And pariswoods.com is where folks can connect with me and read my story or buy copies of the book. And I'm on social media at author Paris Woods on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and all the things.

Oh, you're on TikTok. Oh, nice. Good for you. Gotta be on TikTok. It's so addictive. You know, you gotta participate too. Well, thanks again for being on the show. I really appreciate you having on and sharing everything. I really, really enjoyed your book. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And that was episode 328 of the More Money Podcast with Paris Woods, author of The Black Girl's Guide to Financial Freedom. You can buy her book anywhere. And also, yes, I am giving away a copy. So stay tuned for more information on how to enter to win. You can learn more information about Paris at her website, Pariswoods.com. You can also follow her on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and TikTok at author Pariswoods. So

the handle is at author Pariswoods. Very easy. But again, you can just go to the show notes, jessicamorehouse.com slash 328. I will include all of the links that I just mentioned in there. So it'll be very easy for you to find. So as always, I have some things to share with you. So do not go away. Here's just a few words I want to share about today's podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Oxio, empathy, radical transparency, simplicity, free spirit. When you hear these words, I doubt the first thing you'd associate them with is an internet company. Oxio wants to change that. They believe in disrupting the internet provider space in Canada and putting the customer first,

finally. And they're doing just that by providing local and friendly customer service, unlimited internet, no contracts, and competitive pricing to customers in Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, and Alberta. That's why I made the switch to Oxio myself. Not only that, when you sign up using the promo code MOREMONEY, you get your first month free. Plus, like everyone at Oxio, an Eero 6 router with ridiculously fast Wi-Fi speeds and better privacy controls is included. And once you've signed up, you can even use Oxio's referral program to earn free internet. Want to ditch your old internet provider like me? Just visit Oxio.ca and use promo code MOREMONEY to try out Oxio for free for one month. It's as simple as that. Once again, visit Oxio.ca, that's O-X-I-O dot C-A, and use promo code MOREMONEY to try oxio for free for one month

okay so let's talk about some exciting things um i'm giving away a copy of her book i'm also giving a way my gosh how many other books almost like gosh eight nine ten eleven so full on 12 i'm giving away 12 books um if you just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest, that's where you can find all the different books I'm giving away, you have a very good chance of winning, I will say, because I think lots of people assume that, oh, there's no way I'm going to win a copy, and then they don't enter. And that's why some of these books only have like, you know, a handful of entries. So make sure to enter to win. And not only do you win a copy of the book, I actually personally mail it to you.

Personally mail it to you. We'll even include a personalized note to you. Nice little bonus, if you will. So a few things I want to share with you in case you don't know or you just need a reminder. I first have a free resource library that you can access. It is free. It has a bunch of great stuff in there to help you, you know, just level up your money. There's budget spreadsheets, there's a wedding budget spreadsheet specifically, there's past webinars,

there's checklists and guides, downloads, so many good stuff in there. You just have to go to jessicamorehouse.com slash resources. You can make an account, get access to all those things. Also, if you're looking for a specific budget spreadsheet, I'm currently in the process of updating them. But you can grab them now and you will get the update when it is ready. If you just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash shop, you can access all of them. Some of them are free. Some of them are paid for just like, you know, hardly any money, quite honestly, but they come with video tutorials. And, you know, if you need to organize your money, you know, I say this on the podcast all the time, you need a budget, I'm sorry, you need a budget. And a budget isn't a bad thing. It doesn't have

to be a bad word. It's really just, you know, a spending plan, a way for you to organize how you want to spend your money. Isn't that more fun than thinking of a budget how to spend your money? It's not about restricting yourself. It's about, you know, kind of freeing yourself and giving you some guidance. So that's where you can find that. Also, if you want to learn how to invest, well, if you're Canadian, I have a course that may be the perfect fit for you. It is called a wealth building blueprint for Canadians. You can find more information in the show notes, jMoorhouse.com slash 328 or just go to JessicaMoorhouse.com slash WBB for wealth building blueprint. It is a course that is focused on passive investing for Canadians. It is super in depth. I have just gone through a huge update of it. So it is even

more comprehensive, more up to date information. This is the course that I wish existed when I was just getting started investing, especially wanted to learn how to do you know, DIY investing, build my own portfolio, all that stuff. So if this sounds like you know, something you've always wanted to learn, I've got the course literally specifically built for you. So you can find more information again at JessicaMoorhouse.com slash WBB. Now what else is going on? I think this week, quite honestly, not a lot, but this is actually the first time I'm going to be going away actually somewhere. I feel like for the past two years, it's either been maybe a weekend trip someplace in Ontario or Vancouver to see family, but oh no, this week I'm going to be in be in Calgary all just for like a hot second going to

a friend's wedding. I cannot wait to see people, you know what I mean? Like to be at a gathering and event. Also bracing myself in case I do get COVID because you know what I've been it's been two years and I have not gotten the vid but you know, you just got to be prepared because you just never know. I'm being as safe as I can. I'm all vaxxed, but you know, we're going to a wedding. You just never know. So fingers crossed that I don't get sick. But I'm really excited to see people and celebrate my friends getting married. That'll be really exciting. Very excited. I just cannot wait. You have no idea. I have not been to an event in over two years and I need some normalcy. Also, it's seeming like, you know, the snow is gone officially in Toronto and I feel like

it's almost summer, right? Do you feel like it? I feel like it. I feel like it. I'm very excited. Yeah, so that's really all I've got going on. Also, it's like my wedding anniversary and I completely forgot because, you know, just happens. It happens every year. Sure does. So yeah, that's fun for me. Not that my husband listens to my podcast anymore. But if he did, hey, Josh, happy anniversary. Yeah, okay, that's all I got. I'm gonna I'm gonna keep it short and sweet and see you back here next week. If you want a little tease of who's up on the podcast next, a repeat guest, I've got Frederick Vittisi back on the show. He has a new book out called The Rule of 30, which I loved, really helping you. It's really

focused on how to invest, save up enough for retirement and how to do that with this special Rule of 30. It really goes in depth. I mean, it's a great book. So that's what you can look forward to next week on the podcast. Thank you so much to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout, for always making my podcast so amazing. And yeah, I will see you back here next Wednesday. Have a good rest of your week and weekend. See you soon. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.