More Money Podcast - 334 Becoming Miss Financially Independent - Nicole Lapin, Author, Financial Journalist and Podcast Host

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

Welcome back to a brand new season of the More Money Podcast! After a very busy summer, I’m so excited to be back and share lots of new episodes with you featuring some brand new guests. I’m kicking off Season 15 with a dream guest I can't believe I was able to book — author, money expert and podcast host Nicole Lapin! Nicole Lapin is a financial journalist and TV news anchor best known for appearing on CNBC, CNN, Bloomberg, and MSNBC. She is also a New York Times best-selling author of several books including Rich Bitch, Boss Bitch, and her newest book, Miss Independent. Nicole is also the host of the daily podcast Money Rehab. In this episode, Nicole shares her humble beginnings as a journalist including how she went from writing poetry to delving into the business and financial world. We also talk about the biggest pain points that are facing women in order to reach financial freedom and why the recent overturn of Roe v. Wade in the United States is all about money. I loved hearing Nicole’s take on financial independence, crypto, and what we can expect next from her. I am so happy to be back and look forward to sharing more new episodes this season with you! For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/334 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is season 15, you guys. My goodness, season 15. And, you know, I'm Jessica. Hi, my name is Jessica Morehouse. I'm the host of the show. Welcome to the show. If you're new, if you're a longtime listener, and there's a ton of you out here because the show has been around for over seven years now. We just crossed the seven-year mark in June. Welcome back. I missed you. I hope you missed me, and I hope you're ready for another fantastic season of the show because, honestly, I've got an amazing lineup of guests, and honestly, I've also been on top of things this summer. You may have assumed since I took my summer break that I was just, you know, chilling. No, no, no, no.

I mean, I was chilling, but also I have been busy getting guests and I have literally recorded 75% of the season. This is going to, so FYI, the season starts today, September 14th, 2022. It will go all the way till December 21st. And yeah, I'm pretty proud of myself for getting things in order. Also, I bet my podcast editor is also very excited instead of me. Last season, a lot of it was like, hey, I got another episode. I need it next week. So I am so pumped for this new season. And also, I'm kicking it off with a super big time guest. I'm so thrilled that she was able to come on the show. Not only that, not only that, I'm doing something special this week. I've got a bonus episode for you tomorrow. So it's not just one episode this

week to kick off season 15. I've got two episodes. Woohoo. I've got so much to share with you because obviously I've been off for several months. So make sure to listen all the way till the end. That's where I kind of do my like, hey, you know, sit down fireside chat with Jessica kind of time. So make sure to listen to the end of this episode to, you know, find out what the heck I've been up to and what I've got in store. Some exciting things that I can finally announce. I think I teased some of them in June and I wasn't able to share. Now I can share. So very exciting. But anyways, so who's the guest for today? Well, it's none other than Nicole Lavin. You have probably seen her around because she's been around for a while and she is a I mean, she's been a busy bee. She has a ton of books. She has a

podcast. I mean, she makes me feel tired just looking at her resume, proud and tired. So if you aren't aware of Nicole, I mean, I've been aware of her for years, obviously. So that's why I was so excited to get her on the show. But she's an award-winning financial journalist, acclaimed television news anchor. She's been seen on CNBC, CNN, Bloomberg, and MSNBC. She's also a New York Times bestselling author and now host of the hit podcast that you can listen on any podcast platform called Money Rehab. And to name some of her books, because she has a ton already out and a ton coming out. She has her first book, which you may have heard of, because it was a New York Times bestselling book, was called Rich Bitch. And then she is Boss Bitch, to follow that up, then Becoming Superwoman,

and Miss Independent. And I will be giving away a copy of Becoming Superwoman. So make sure to listen to the end of this episode to find out how to enter. Yeah, so we've got a lot to talk about. And it's such a great interview. I know you're going to love it. So let's get to that good stuff. But before I do get to that interview with Nicole, here's just a few words I want to share about this season's podcast sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Does your financial institution share your values? Because Desjardins is about more than just money. They are on a mission to enrich people's

lives and improve the economic and social well-being of Canadians everywhere. Desjardins' main goal as a cooperative is to support its members and make a positive impact on their communities by providing exceptional customer care, offering a variety of financial services, and above all, listening to its members. They've also been at the forefront of sustainable investing as one of the first financial institutions to offer responsible investment portfolios. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're a cooperative making a difference, visit Desjardins.com. Welcome, Nicole, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on. I'm a big fan. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. You're so, so welcome. So you have written four, you know, incredibly successful books in the span of just a few years.

Like, really? Because your first book that became a New York Times bestseller came out in only 2016. That's not that long ago. I know. I'm popping out these book babies. I gotta take some book birth control. I don't know. Every two years, a new book baby is born. Yeah.

Rich Bitch came out. Yeah. I think it was. You know better than I do. I wrote it down. It's all been a blur to me. That's what the internet said. Yeah.

Fair enough. I mean, you've done a lot. Like, I read your Wikipedia page. I'm like, my God, it makes me tired just thinking about the things you've accomplished. And you're like, you're only a few years older than me. I'm like, wow, you've accomplished a lot. I kind of want to just kind of share just a few of that. Or if you want to share some of the highlights to share kind of how you got to where you are, because you started in journalism. And now here you are kind of as you know, again, like I said, one of the most kind of

well known personal finance experts in North America. How did you kind of, again, like I said, one of the most kind of well-known personal finance experts in North America. How did you kind of make that journey? Because was that always the goal or it just kind of happened to end up where you are? Definitely not the goal. Totally happened by accident. I actually hated money and finance and talking about personal finance. Growing up, I grew up in an immigrant family. So first generation American, never talked about any of this stuff at home. We obviously didn't learn it at school. My boyfriend in high school said he wanted to be a hedge fund manager. I thought he wanted to be in gardening. Like I was the most clueless Jessica person ever. And that boyfriend dumped me

because I couldn't hang out or talk with his Wall Street friends. Oh. And then fast forward. Oh, now, yeah. Who won that kind of life? I'm sure he's looking at you and be like, oh, geez.

That's right. His Wall Street friends wanted to talk in a different way. And yeah, you know, it was by necessity. It was totally by accident and totally out of necessity. So I needed a job, grow up in a broken home and started working really early and wanted a job in journalism. And back in the day, you worked at small markets and sort of worked your way up and I thought I wanted a job in big market Milwaukee I thought that was going to be my big break and so I stalked

the station chief to get an interview and he finally relented and said you clearly don't know geography you can't go from Chicago to Milwaukee every day that's not a thing I was like I could do anything. And he's like, well, you don't get that job. But do you know anything about business news? And I was like, absolutely. I love business news every day, twice on Sunday. And I was 18 and started as a business reporter on the floor of the Chicago Merc and

figured out that money is a language just like anything else. You just didn't have a Rosetta Stone for it. So I went to the School of Hard Knocks. I didn't get my MBA. I didn't work at a bank. I just figured it out the hard way because I had to. I mean, I started as a poetry major, Jessica. So if I could do this, anyone could do it. I ultimately became a writer, just not the kind I expected. That's amazing. That's really amazing. And I think the reason you're so successful is because you can talk about money, which most people think is really hard to understand.

There is so much jargon. It can seem complex. And especially with just the boom of social media, people love to just kind of scare you into like, you don't know what you're talking about, you need to hire me or buy my whatever that they're selling. You really are all about here's, you know, lots of your books are like 12 step plan. It's like really breaking things down and translating things so anyone can understand it. And I love how you've always had a big focus, especially on teaching women how to build wealth and things like that I'm curious why was that kind of the you know

because you could have gone in so many different directions in terms of you know talking about money but why did you really want to make sure that I want to talk to a female audience because I feel like they're just not you know getting someone that's know, really kind of trying to lift them up? Thank goodness I did. It was after four failed book proposals, four different book agents. I had tried to get a book deal for 10 years. And all of those books would have been dead on arrival. So I had one book that I had sold right before Rich Bitch that was called Making Bank. And it was like all things to all people, cool, finance, whatever. And that book would have sucked. Thank goodness, in hindsight, of course, it got canceled. It got sold to an editor.

And then over the holiday, the editor was let go and took my book with her. It all went away. And I was devastated. But what I realized in 10 years of false starts and trial and error is that you can't be all things to all people in any media, or you're nothing to anyone, especially books. And most women, book buying is mostly done by women, as you know. And so I honed my message. I narrowed my message. I narrowed my focus. And I decided I was going to speak to my former self because I knew that girl. I knew that girl so well. I knew what she liked to wear. I knew the brands she liked. I knew what her hopes and dreams were. You know, she is me. I am her, whatever. Clearly, I'm not winning any grammar awards today. But I knew that that was an underserved audience because I needed a guidebook like this, and I didn't have one. I pieced together my financial education totally piecemeal. Like, I reached out to finance people, asked them to be, like, my tutor.

It was wild how I cobbled this stuff together. So, yeah, I really believe that with books, like, you're not going to be all things to all people if you're something meaningful to one group. Absolutely. Now you have one group. Yeah, you have four books now. I'm curious. So you started with Rich Bitch, which is a simple 12 step plan for getting a financial

life together finally. And then you followed it up pretty soon after with Boss Bitch, which is more focused on your career. Why did you want to have that book with a slightly different focus? I thought it was going to be the bitch series forever. And then after two, we were like, okay, we're done with this thing. This was at a time, if you remember, Girl Boss came out. It was sort of this like boss bitch girl boss moment. And I had a lot to say about my career because people assume that I grew up in a rich family or had a silver spoon in my mouth. And like I used to hear at CNN, as you mentioned, that I was only 21. So people thought

daddy must have made a call. And I was like, oh, my daddy died of a drug overdose. So like I am, no, I didn't get any handouts. I didn't get, I barely had a spoon of food in my mouth growing up, much less a silver spoon. So I truly figured it out. Again, out of necessity, I don't think there's anything wrong with feeding yourself, feeding your family. There are a lot of entrepreneurial experts that will say, go out and do what you love, YOLO, FOMO, whatever, yo. And I was like, I just had to pay the bills. I would have loved to sit under a tree and write poetry all day long, but I needed to figure out how to support myself. And so I thought that writing a career book from that honest place was a good next step. Yeah.

So I'm curious, not to give the contents of the book away, but what were some of the key things that you learned? Because I feel like every woman I've talked to over the years has a very different experience, and especially like Gen Z now, they have a very different experience starting their careers. What were some, I guess, some of the struggles that you experienced and then some of the lessons that you're like I wish someone told me this earlier I want to make sure that my readers know this too I think that women in particular go through a lot of different stages in our careers it's not a ladder I don't like that. I think it's more like a rope swing

or kind of like rock climbing where we, you know, I worked at bigger companies than I worked for myself. You know, at some point I'll start an actual family, not just book babies, and I'll be the CEO of my household. And then maybe I'll go back to work for another company or who knows, like a lot of different permutations happen. So I broke it out into those areas, how to be an entrepreneur. So entrepreneurial within an existing company, which is what I did when I was at CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, I started series, I sort of nobody offered me a special series, for instance. And then how I started my own company in the middle of the recession. I called it Recessionista, which was not a very tried and true name. So I found out very quickly when the recession ended

and all the mistakes I made along the way from copyright and trademark to negotiating and like legal and stuff like that that I didn't know. I went from covering business for a decade then to being in business. So in all of my books, they're all 12-step plans, and they all include confessions. And I'm really, really honest in my confessions. I always gravitate toward the thing I'm most embarrassed of talking about. I'm like, that's what's going to resonate. Because I think that this is, as you mentioned, a really taboo, scary topic. And when it comes to any taboo, scary topic, somebody has to go first. It's like, I'll show you mine if you show me yours, or don't even show me, just show yourself yours. But I'll go first with this

conversation. So let it be me. Absolutely. I know one of the biggest struggles that a lot of women face, and I'm sure maybe you've faced this in your long career as well, is really the gender pay gap. And for years, I didn't even realize I was being paid less than any of my male counterparts because I just didn't know how much people were getting paid. And it was only when I left and then we started having that open conversation because there's nothing to lose. And people were getting paid. And it was only when I left. And then we started having that open conversation because there's nothing to lose. And I'd always find out that I was earning way less than I should have. And that can have a huge impact on your future.

Is that something that you want to make sure that women understand? And what can we do to try to, I mean, I know it's not fully our jobs. It should be everyone's jobs to kind of close that gap. But what is something that we as individuals can do? Well, amen, sister. But I think we all in theory know that we should negotiate for a lot of different things. We should negotiate our bills. We should negotiate our salaries.

We should negotiate our prenup. Like all these kind of scary things that we've been told many times and has kind of sunk in we should negotiate. But how is the question that I wanted to address? So, you know, I'm not necessarily reinventing the personal finance wheel, but I thought that I would include elements that were maybe obvious to many people, but I would have really appreciated, like scripts. So I include a lot of scripts. Like they say this when you're negotiating a car or negotiating a salary. You say this. Here's the thing to ask. And here's how it goes down. And, you know, I've heard from listeners or viewers, readers, my audience many times that that's been really helpful when having

a little cheat sheet for those conversations, because sometimes you have a total brain fart, like you don't know what you're saying. And referring back to actually how those conversations go are helpful, especially when you're doing it for the first time. So that was the big contribution that I wanted to make there. Absolutely. What would you say? Because I, you know, I have a friend, she has a newsletter that focuses on kind of, I think, the other side of it where people try to negotiate and it, you know, is everyone's or every woman's worst fear. It doesn't go the way that they planned. They, their job gets rescinded if they got a job offer or they don't get the raise or,

you know, they're, you know, oh, we're only in this for the money or anything like that. I feel like that's either a fear that maybe, you know, maybe it just is just a fear or it could actually happen. So what can women do if they are faced with this? Well, first off, you have to face yourself and really look in the mirror and be honest. Would you give yourself more money? I don't know. Do you think you deserve a raise? You know, it's not a given. Not everybody gets more money because that's the right thing to do. You know, I have employees of my own and they sometimes use my advice against me, you know, where they come up with spreadsheets, as I mentioned, coming up with a presentation if you have an existing job to show all the things you've done because your boss has a boss and they have their own things to do and they're probably not watching all of the deals you've made or depending on the industry. So really putting that together like you would for any client. So do that just for yourself. And also think of several different options of what a raise looks like for you or

more money or more comp like a better compensation package might not be a bump in base salary it might be some other perk it might be you know taking friday off or i'm just making this up or like you know working from home permanently or something like that. Totally. Or, you know, some other kind of expense card, whatever. And so I think that coming up with three options going into these conversations is really important. So a bump in money, bump in perks, and then a combo of both. And when you're taking a job for, you know, when you're signing up for a new job and you've been recruited or you've gone through the

interview process and you have the offer and you want to bump that up, you have to remember that they put a lot of money into recruiting you. It's really hard to find talent in any industry, especially during a great myself, I'm like, this is a lot of work. If I found somebody, you know, checking the box for this and moving on is more valuable to me than, you know, whatever delta they're going to ask for in more comp. Like that, I found a great person, a little bit more comp is more worth it to me than to spend that time trying to find somebody else. Absolutely. So I want to kind of shift focus because another thing that you talk often about, which I think is also so important, I'm seeing a lot more people discuss it openly, which is such a breath of fresh air because I feel like decades ago, or a decade ago, quite honestly, no one was talking about investing and growing your wealth. It was very male centric.

And I felt very intimidated. I know a lot of other women were intimidated. And so we had a late start to investing or we started investing in maybe not the right way for us because we didn't understand what we're doing. And then we had to change course. And so your latest book, Miss Independent, A Simple 12 Step Plan to Start Investing and Growing Your Wealth. I love that. It's, I mean, very timely to come out with that book. But what did you really want to, what did you want the kind of messaging to be in that book?

What do you want women to know about growing their wealth? So Miss Independent is essentially Rich Bitch Part Two. So Rich Bitch helps you get your financial life together, budgeting, the basics of housing and getting a car and savings and all of that. But it's not going to grow you wealth. And unfortunately, you can save your face off. You can budget your face off. That will never grow long-term generational wealth. investing and utilizing that beautiful, as you know, beautiful, beautiful force, can you tell what a nerd I am, of compound interest that Einstein, of course, called the eighth wonder of the world. So I think that once you've done the basics, Miss Independent

helps you level up. And it was really important to me to go into more advanced concepts that even, you know, as I was editing the book, I would have feedback that this might be too much or too advanced to talk about bond yield curves and REITs and other things. And I said, no, I'm tired of women money books that shrink it and pink it. Like, no, it's not. You've figured out harder things in life than what a real estate investment trust is. Girl, come on, you got this. So I think that for me, it was important to go through the most advanced concepts yet and try to break those down. And that was actually the hardest for me because really being able to do that well means that you have to understand it inside and out. And what often happens, you've probably read a bunch of personal

finance books. Like you can tell sometimes the person doesn't actually fully know what they're talking about and they hide behind a bunch of jargon. I was like, I'm naked. I don't have any jargon to hide behind. And in order to make it entertaining and funny, I mean, think about The Daily Show. The writers there know the news really well in order to make fun of it. So the first step is really understanding the concepts in order to break it down. So I think I'm most proud of my last book. I do have six more coming up. Ooh, that's a lot.

It's a lot. It's a lot. It's truly a lot. It's like beyond the birth control. It's like tying the book tubes. It's like it's a lot. It's a lot. It's truly a lot. It's like beyond the birth control. It's like tying the book tubes. It's like it's got to – at some point, nobody wants to hear from me anymore. But, yeah, I'm most proud of this last one, Miss Independent. No, I'm so glad.

So I'm curious, when you were compiling that book and trying to figure out, you know, what should be in and what should not be in the book, you know, what were kind of those key things you're like, women need to know this because it's just not maybe accessible, or it's just not easy to understand if you're just to pick up any old investing book off the shelf. Well, I wanted to get to the pain points around this for women. And I think the real pain points is thinking a guy is going to figure this out or thinking you're going to marry a rich dude. And if you've never had that thought before, you're a better woman than I am. But I need to be like really, really honest with where these issues stemmed. And so I could address them. And we all have financial trauma. I have a

ton of financial trauma. The first story I talk about in the book is how I bailed my mother out of jail when I was in middle school using cash under the sink next to the maxi pad. So I have a lot of financial trauma, but you don't even need to have that much personal financial trauma to have financial trauma. You could have it in a macro sense, living through the dot-com bubble or 9-11 or the 2008 crisis or whatever, a pandemic. You could have sort of friend group trauma where a lot of friends either hide purchases from their husbands or get into debt or are the opposite and just a coupon clip and nickel and dime. So you have a lot of influences. And I think it's important to try to quiet those voices, confront what they are because they need to talk, and then realize that just because it's been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the way it needs to be done beyond here. And financial freedom, financial independence to me means having your own back no matter what, which I've had to do in any relationship, in any job. So being Miss Independent

to me means having enough money to leave a toxic job if you have to and not worrying about money or leave a toxic relationship if you have to. And so many women, gosh, have written to me. And I think that if nothing else, this is the most impactful part of this, that they, you know, were scared to leave abusive relationships because of money. And that's real. And that shouldn't happen. And so if you think about where your own pain points are and what's been standing in your way, the math stuff, as you know, doesn't stand in anybody's way. The math to get your personal finance together, a fifth grader can do. It's all the humanities stuff.

It's getting your friend to pay you back. It's talking about a prenup that really get in the way. So I wanted to and spell it out. So we start at the bottom with, you know, savings accounts and CDs and money market accounts and then start to get more, you know, interest with bonds and other super fun stuff and then get into equities and stocks and funds. And I snuck in at the very, very end, the most risky beyond investment properties and REITs, but also cryptocurrency and NFTs. I stuck that in in the very last minute because that's a relatively new thing. So that's how I break it down. I really like I wanted it to be the most organized possible and truly a step plan.

That's amazing. I mean, you know, since you mentioned crypto, and also since you've, you've, you know, kind of seen the other side of it as you know, a financial journalist, and now you know, you run your own kind of education company. What is your kind of take? And you're also on social media, what has been your take over the past few years, seeing just the ups and downs of the conversations people have been having about like, you know, risky investments, and just like the uh the meme stocks the crypto the nfts it seemed like things are quiet now but uh they were really loud for a while and i don't know about you you probably got tons of messages from people being like is this something i should do i still get messages from people like and i'm like you know

what it's yeah i can't give you advice but what do you like what's your gut feeling say it's always someone's friend of a friend is trying to get you into something that seems not quite right for you totally what they're trying to do is to get you into some get rich quick idea because i think we all in our heart of hearts want some quick fix to everything where we don't have to work hard and it you know you just double your money magically uh with one thing and we don't have to work hard and you just double your money magically with one thing and you don't have to sort of spend time with boring investments and things that aren't quite as sexy. But I like boring investments. I like my money to be very boring. If you want to have a sexy, fun time, download Tinder. If you want to grow wealth consistently and safely, then download Fidelity or Vanguard or Schwab. I mean, none of these companies pay me, but these are all brokerages that will grow you wealth pretty sustainably, but it won't be bananas returns. But you will make money while

you're sleeping, which is the coolest thing ever because you work so hard for your money. In my opinion, it's time I return the favor. Crypto, I've never really minced words about. I'm not into it for more than 1% of your net worth. So that's my advice. Keep your crypto exposure to 1% of your net worth. And net worths advice. Keep your crypto exposure to 1% of your net worth. And net worths are not just for rich people. Anyone can have a net worth. As you know, it's your assets. So what you own minus what you owe, your liabilities, is your net worth. And you can afford to lose 1% of your net worth. You're not going to go bankrupt because of it, but you kind of can't afford, and I'm using quotes, to miss out on that prospect that

1% could become 100% of your net worth if it does explode. So I think having a baby bit of exposure is okay. It breaks my heart. And during this recent downturn that people put their life savings into it. You know, I tried to sound the alarm bells as much as I possibly could, but the writing to me was on the wall for it. I did a lot of shows about, you know, the linkage to the tulip craze. If you bought into that, you still had a nice garden. If you bought into this, you didn't. You don't even have the tulips.

You don't even have a tulip. And yeah, I get it. It's buzzy and it's cool. It just, for me, wasn't a sustainable way to grow long-term wealth, which was always my goal. It's not trading, but long-term investing. Yeah. And I think, yeah, a lot of the issues I have around it is just the fear of missing out. It's like you're doing it because of an emotional reaction. You don't want to be that person who didn't do it. But then you get caught up because it is exciting and you keep seeing it going up

and you don't think that it will ever go down and now we're seeing that happen um so and you know you heard these tech bros talk about how it's gonna take over for the u.s dollar i'm like wait a minute hold on tech bros that's not a thing that is not no the world's reserve currency backed by the richest most powerful military in the world like you're not gonna going to take over. It's not a thing. So for me, I'm not completely poo-pooing all crypto. I love the blockchain and I love the use cases for the blockchain. But I think of it more as an allegory to Stripe or Visa as like the underlying transaction platform for Web3 versus a whole currency. So I think there's use for it. I just think we have to temper how we feel about it. Like Visa's a really, really great company with a lot of money and a lot of revenue because of transaction

fees. Same thing with a company like Stripe. a lot of revenue because of transaction fees. Same thing with a company like Stripe. And I think that having those transaction fees is actually a business. The other stuff, I'm less convinced of. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have to see. I feel like it's still so early days and people are just really thinking really far into the future. So I'm just like, you know what? We will see. we will see what happens. But yeah, like yourself, don't don't ever, you know, it just, it seems not, you know, so simple. It's like, don't put your life savings into something that is so speculative, and so new. And there's so many questions still lingering around all these new coins that keep on popping up. I want to kind

of talk a little bit more, because, you know, again, you talk a lot to women and something that recently happened in the US is obviously the overturning of Roe v. Wade. I've been having a lot of conversations with, you know, my friends down south in the U.S. about, you know, what are the financial implications? Because I think a lot of people don't, didn't think about that. I mean, in financial circles, we were always talking about that, but a lot of people really didn't discuss or really realize this isn't, you know, just about abortion. This is about this is about money, moment in a woman's life. It's the next 18 years of her life that's affected. And I did a whole episode about the Turnaway Study, which was the longest study done of women who were turned away for abortions and the financial implications and ramifications that that had on her life. And the data is staggering.

I mean, you can just see that, and I'm trying to pull up the stats right now because I don't have them off the top of my head, but how credit scores declined, how debt increased, job prospects and career opportunities decreased. You can see this quantitative data behind abortion, legal or not. I think ultimately abortion is going to be available to women who have money, less so. We're not going pre-Roe. I just had Marianne Williamson on the show, who is much more eloquent than I am about this subject, but we're not going going pre-Roe. I just had Marianne Williamson on the show, who is much more eloquent than I am about this subject. But we're not going to pre-Roe times. This is going to be more criminalized. And so, yes, women who have money will figure it out.

And so I think this is class warfare in disguise. Yeah. No, 100 percent. It's yeah, it's it, yeah, it's a difficult thing to see. And yeah, it's just like the the impact that it'll have on women, it's, it's going to take us a long time for us to kind of, you know, it feels like, you know, we did took some steps forward now steps back. And just another thing that we have to deal with is women with the money in the, yeah, the pay gap and everything else that's involved. It is. It's just perpetuating the progress that we've made with the gender wealth gap, the pay gap. I just pulled up the numbers and, you know, there are reports that track bankruptcies and evictions and tax liens after these women who were turned away, poverty rates. I mean, it's real. The financial implications

are stark, and the economic impact is something we can't even probably wrap our heads around in terms of the economic chaos that's going to ensue at every level. Absolutely. And since we're still, and we probably will be for a while in this world with high inflation, and, you know, high interest rates and rising costs, it's just going to make it difficult for for everybody. But I think especially women will be impacted by all this. I've been talking a lot on the news over the past several months about what you can do during these times of, you know, high costs and rising inflation. I'm curious what your, you know, perspective is, like, especially since you really have seen so many ups and downs

in the economy and the markets from your career, you know, for people that are... Does that mean I'm old? No, you're literally two years older than me, so no. No, no, no. I'm just saying you have a expansive career. What are you kind of, I guess, telling people that are a bit worried about the next 12 or 24 months? Because I think a lot of people, we actually had a good two years in terms of financials. Not everyone did, obviously, but the stock market was up and people were able to work at home and save money. And now things have kind of flipped and things are getting a bit scary. What's kind of your advice for people who

are a bit concerned? Well, it's interesting that you mentioned 12 to 24 months. So right there, that shows me a difference between what I am looking at more closely as an allegory to what's happening now is 2001 versus 2008. As you know, in 2008, the guts and the plumbing of the financial system was screwed up. That's not the case right now. I think it's more analogous to 2001, the dot-com bubble time. And the difference between then and now is the speed with which information travels. And so I think it was slower to get in to recessionary times and it was slower to get out. But you just said 12 to 24 months. And that shows me that we're already naturally thinking of how fast information moves. We're going to get, I think, into it quicker and we're going to get out of it quicker. And so, you know, what that means for everyone is that you can only

control your own micro economy. You can't control macro economy or recessionary forces or inflation or interest rates or GDP or whatever. All you can control is yourself. And this is the time when you have to remember the one adage of Wall Street. I think there's two truisms. One is it's better to beat low expectations. And the other is buy low, sell high. Buy low, sell high. So where are we? We're not in the high. And so is it a selling opportunity or a buying opportunity? And sure, there are a lot of assets that are not on sale. They're just crappy assets. But there are really strong value assets that you should take advantage of if you have cash on the sidelines and you have a long time horizon. So I say DCA, dollar cost average and chill, index funds and chill. It is

so hard. I mean, the secret of Wall Street is that it's nearly impossible for fund managers to beat the market. No matter how much press or publicity they get and they try to make it seem that way, so few fund managers actually do that. So why try to beat it? Just track the market. And as you know, index fund tracks an index and the indexes, there are a lot of them. The S&P 500 index fund is what the Vanguard one specifically is what Warren Buffett put in his will for his own wife to do with his money when he dies. So I think that this is a really important time to put and keep your blinders on. Yeah, I think it's so important, like you kind of mentioned, if you don't, you can't really see where the future is headed, because it can seem

scary. And I think that just a lot of people just can't can't see it. Look at the past, not that the past is going to happen again. But it does give you a good idea of what could happen. And as we know, when things go down, people build significant wealth by buying low. But it's as you also kind of talk about in your books, the psychological and emotional parts are the hardest things to kind of overcome. Totally. You know, the impetus is to sell everything when you see it down. The first thing I would say to folks who say that is to not mourn paper losses. So did you actually lose money? Or did you lose paper money? Because there are only two days that are important when you're investing, the day you buy and the day you sell. And everything in between

is a whole bunch of noise. It's like a roller coaster. You don't get off in the middle of the roller coaster. But did you really lose money or are you just seeing like a decline in your portfolio as you open it up? So, yeah, I wish I had money during the last recession. I mean, we do. I do. And having money is more fun. But also, yeah, it is a good buying opportunity if you, again, have a long time horizon. So five years or more. So I'll wrap things up because you have so much going on.

And also I should mention, too, you have your own podcast, Money Rehab. I'm curious, why did you want to start? I mean, you obviously have a perfect podcast voice. I was thinking that when you're talking about she has the perfect podcast voice. Why did you want to start your own show called Money Rehab? So podcasting has been a learning curve for me. I have been very honest. Like I did not come up in this audio medium. So I've been learning a lot. I started with a show called Hush Money with the editor in chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, Jason Pfeiffer,

who's my work husband. And we did like he said, she said show and then the pandemic hit we did two seasons of that and then I said you know the things that matter health and wealth and I begged the iHeart execs to give me my own daily show yeah and like as a call-in show because people were scared and confused and getting information from Instagram and and so I said, you know, I didn't really know what I was signing up for at a daily show, but I'm like, it's going to be a daily. So it is. But Money Rehab covers the news of the day in the financial world, what it means for you, you know, and also evergreen um money master classes on on various subjects and it's a fun show it's uh bite-sized and hopefully uh not too intimidating because there's too much stuff in this world that's intimidating enough that's true 100 couldn't agree more um well before i let you

go where can people find the podcast more about, and grab some copies of your books? You're the best. You can find Money Rehab wherever podcasts are served, I suppose. Wherever you get your favorite shows. You can find the books wherever you get your favorite books. And you can find me on the internet at Nicole Lappin. On all platforms except TikTok. Because, of course, a at Nicole Lappin. On all platforms except TikTok because of course a young Nicole Lappin.

Someone else. Some 12-year-old girl got that name. Ready? Oh, I know. I don't think I have any of my actual names for my handles for any social platform. There's a million Jessica Borehouses for whatever reason. Just before you go, I'm just so curious.

I don't know if you could even share this. You have more books coming. What on earth could they be about? Because I feel like you've covered it all. Thank you for that. The next launch is actually a series. So it'll be small books, single subject books, because the truth is, you know, if you read Rich Bitch, you're not going to be able to buy a house intelligently, like from soup to nuts. You're going to know, like, top level stuff and you can have a conversation about it and you can even think about it for yourself. So I wanted to deep dive and double click, so to speak, on single subjects. So I'm going to do five single subject books coming up next.

And then the one after that is a what to financially expect when you're expecting book. So I need to get knocked up before that. So I'm working on it. That's part of the writing process. I love that. Can I write that off? I don't know. I know.

Can you write off maybe the hospital bills? I don't know. I know. Can you write off the hospital bills? I don't know. Ask the accountant. That sounds that sounds legit to me. Well, thank you so much, Nicole, for coming on the show. It was a pleasure having you on. Likewise. Thank you so much for having me. And that was Nicole Lappin. If you want to check out Nicole and grab a copy of her book, of course, you can find her at her website, NicoleLappin.com. And make sure to follow her on Twitter and Instagram. Her handle is very easy to find. It's just Nicole Lappin. And that's L-I-P-I-N, if you're curious any more. I've got lots to share with you, like I mentioned, including how to enter to win a copy of her book, Becoming Superwoman. So do not go away. Just a few words I want to share about this podcast season's sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by

Desjardins. Do you feel valued at your financial institution? Because Desjardins is on a mission to enrich the lives of Canadians, help build stronger communities, and educate its members so they can confidently reach their financial goals. Not only do they offer one-of-a-kind customer care and offer a variety of financial services to fit your needs, as a cooperative, they put their members first. So if you're looking for an institution that's making an impact, look no further than Desjardins. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're making a difference, visit Desjardee.com. All right, so let's get to some of that good stuff. And first and foremost, if you want to win a copy of her book or enter to win, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest or contests with an S. Either goes to the same page.

I made it. So if I mix them up, it doesn't matter. You will go to the same page. That is where you can enter to win a copy of her book, Becoming a Superwoman. And I will be giving away a ton of other books because I have a ton of authors on this season of the show. I mean, maybe it's just because I love having authors. We have something to talk about their book. I also get a copy of their book, which I love to read because I love reading money books and I love reading money books. And I love giving away books. So what's not to love about having an author on the show? So anyways, that is how you can enter to win a copy of her book and future books. You can just check

every week and all that kind of stuff. Also, too, if you're not on my newsletter, which I, gosh, I sent like one this summer. But if you go to JessicaMurhaas.com slash subscribe, or there's I think, you know, on my homepage, there's probably a subscription box kind of thing that you can sign up for. That's also where you will get updated about, you know, new podcast episodes and news and announcements and things like that. Because, you know, as much as I would love to be real time with this podcast, sometimes I don't. So like I'm recording this a week in advance because I am going on a little I know I just went on vacation. I'm going on another little mini vacation, a little girls trip that honestly, I was supposed to go with my friends in 2020. And

we know how that went. It did not it did not go anywhere. We all had to stay at home for two years. So finally, we got to, or well, I'm going to be heading off actually, very soon to Pender Island. Very exciting. So looking forward to that. But I did have a very nice summer. Thank you so much for asking. Not that you care. But yeah, me and my husband went to Costa Rica. And it was literally the first time we've been away for two weeks or more than a week on a vacation in, I don't know, three-ish years. Like, I don't remember the last time. We've just been doing little weekend trips or maybe one week away. And gosh, I don't know about you, but whenever you go on vacation, which is supposed to be so relaxing and fun and exciting, oh my gosh, the lead up to it is absolute hell. Like we were pulling like 12 hour days just trying to get things organized. You know, we're both self employed and just trying to get our work done so we could take two weeks off so

that we wouldn't, you know, have a crazy pile of work, you know, to do when we got back. So that was not enjoyable. I always forget about that. Prep for, you know, trips. And same with this new trip. I'm like, gosh, there's so much work I had to do just to get ready for, you know, really, like I'm away for five days. And but I'm not complaining because, hey, I'm lucky that I was able to go away and spend some time with friends and see the beautiful West Coast, which I love. I love the ocean. I miss the mountains. Oh, it's so beautiful there. So super, super nice. Yeah. And Costa Rica was great. If you wanted to see a little glimpse into what the trip entailed, go to my Instagram. You can find me at Jessica I. Morehouse or again, also FYI, because you know, the scammers are always running rampant and I keep on getting

DMs from people be like, is this you? No, it's never me. You can always find my legitimate social media accounts by going to JessicaMorehouse.com, checking the footer where I have all of those social media icons that are linked to my accounts. That is how you, you know, do your due diligence to make sure is this a scam or not. If it seems weird, and if I if someone is pretending to be me basically in DMing you as saying something about day trading, Forex or crypto, run. Block them, report them, run. I would never talk about that.

You should know better. I talk about boring stuff like index funds. I don't talk about crypto. Come on. Come on. But anyways, follow me on my legitimate Instagram. Also, the podcast has an Instagram too, at more money podcast. So that's where I, you know, you know, let you know about new episodes and all that kind of stuff.

And I will be more active on that account. So make sure to follow me there. But yeah, I do have some, you know, I've been doing a lot of reels over the summer, and they've been a lot of fun. But I have one that is specifically about my trip to Costa Rica that you may want to check out. Now, besides, you know, going on some trips, I also had my sister visit me for two weeks. My mom visited me for a week. So honestly, we were pretty jam-packed this summer. We really took advantage because I feel like we're just going crazy from not having any excitement over the past couple of summers. I'm sure you feel the same, just being locked inside, basically.

So, yeah, it's been a great summer. But I've been doing some secret projects. So I did tease, I'm pretty sure in June, and some of those episodes be like, hey, we're working on something, but I can't show you what it is. And it was another podcast, actually, really exciting called Clean Slate that I did in collaboration with the CBC and Desjardins. And so you can find that is a video podcast. So if you want to see, hey, what's Jessica look like and how she, you know, look when she's doing a video podcast, which is so much harder than a regular podcast. I had lots of people ask me recently, hey, why aren't you doing video podcasts? Everyone's doing them. Because it's a lot of freaking work.

And this is a lot of work already. So and I tried doing it a few years ago. If you're an OG listener, you may know this and it was just too much work and not enough payoff so that's why I you know this was nice because there was like a professional team and a producer and everything like that so I just had to pop in and be a little host and that was lovely but this show I do it all myself okay besides my wonderful podcast editor Matt Rideout but uh yeah no and, Sarah Morehouse, who also helps me with the podcast. But you know, anyways, so it is called a clean slate. You can find it at cbc.ca slash clean dash slate. I also have posted about it on my Instagram. So you can check that out. But basically, it's me interviewing four amazing people who have just started businesses or just created an amazing

platform. They're just inspiring people, basically. But we get to talk about money. So they're not financial experts. They're just regular people who have done something pretty exciting and cool. And we get to talk about money. And it was so exciting. It was so much fun. So make sure to check it out cbc.ca slash clean dash slate is where you can find it. All right, just a few other things I'd like to share. And then I'll let you go. Because I'm going to be back here with you tomorrow with my bonus episodes and make sure to come back here. Okay, what else do I want to share? So first, I feel like I said, Oh, I'm working on updating my budget spreadsheets. So those should be ready in the summer. I'm sure I promised that. And that was a lie. It was a lie. I was really busy this summer. And although the budget spreadsheets

technically are done, I was working with someone to update them. I still have to make all the video tutorials to show you how to use them. And I'm hoping that I will be able to do that very soon. But you know, it's gonna, it's gonna take a few more weeks. That actually just also reminds me, and this is a very timely thing. So if you're listening on Wednesday, September 14, then you can still take advantage even maybe the morning of Thursday, September 15. You can do this. But otherwise, I'm so sorry, it's over. I also am doing something so freaking cool. And I'm like, shocked that they chose me. But also I do know Chelsea. So that makes a lot of sense. I am running a workshop in collaboration with the financial diet. Yeah, the huge financial diet. They have like freaking,

you know, I think a million followers on YouTube and 800,000 followers on Instagram. Like they're mega, mega, mega. And I'm running a workshop about investing for beginners for Canadians because I'm Canadian. And apparently they've been getting a lot of requests to, hey, can you do a version because Amanda Holden does one who I love, Dumpster Doggy. Make sure to follow her. She's awesome. But she does one, obviously, for Americans because she's American. And so a lot of people are like, hey, can you do one for Canadians where you actually talk about RRSPs, not 401ks?

And so I'm running a workshop. It is happening. You can find the information. I'd say go to my Instagram. That's probably the easiest place because there's always a link or actually just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash links like l-i-n-k-s that's kind of the the url I use for like my Instagram my Twitter or whatever and then on there it has a big button that says hey do you want to sign up for my workshop and you'll get three dollars off with my little promo code that's automatically you know put, put it in that URL and you can join me. It's a two hour workshop. It's from 6.30pm to 8.30pm Thursday, September 15. And yeah, I,

I'm not gonna I'm telling you like when I make presentations, I don't just like call it in. I really am a perfectionist. And so I've been working on this presentation for a while. And I'm pretty, pretty excited about it. So it's a good one you're not going to want to miss it so make sure to check that out and get your ticket and also you get the recording after so if you can't join live that's okay you get the recording after so you can watch it whenever you want I think for a couple months or something there's also a worksheet that comes with it so lots of good stuff so check that out and lastly lastly of course reminding you hello that I have an investing course hence why I'm running a workshop on investing I know what I'm talking about it's now like a year and a half old I'm really excited to hit that two-year mark but it is called wealth building blueprint for Canadians

and it is all about index investing passive investing investing, if you're a Canadian. So if you want to learn how to invest in a very boring and easy and simple way, where someone is not trying to tell you that you need to be a day trader or, you know, trade crypto in order to reach retirement, that's what my course is all about. It's about just like, boring, sustainable, and you know, investing stuff that I do that I talk about on the podcast all the time. Just you know, getting rich slowly kind of investing. So if you want to learn more about that, just go to Jessica morehouse.com slash course, it's on right on my website. And you can find more information about that and apply. All right, that is it for me.

Another big shout out to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout, and also my sister, Sarah. Thanks for being my assistant. Also, if anyone's looking for a virtual assistant, I can highly recommend my sister. She works with actually a couple other influencers that I know. So you can check her out. You can get in touch with me. I can put you in touch with her. She's building a website right now. So that's it. Thanks so much. I will see you back here tomorrow for my bonus episode. Have a good rest of your day. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.