More Money Podcast - 339 From HGTV to Top-Rated Airbnb Host - Annie Sloan, Co-Founder and CEO of The Host Company

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Have you ever wondered what it takes to run a short-term rental on Airbnb or Vrbo? Today we’re breaking down the cost, time, and skills you need to have in order to become a 5-star rated host. To help shed light on all the nitty gritty details of short-term rental ownership is Annie Sloan, the Co-Founder, and CEO of The Host Co. As an experienced host and real estate investor herself, Annie got her start working in film and TV as a producer and director for some of your favourite HTGV shows. Since then, she has also taken on Creative Director roles at both Facebook and Twitter before co-founding her company The Host Co. In this episode, Annie shares her passion for hospitality and how her early experiences (pre-Airbnb even) as a short-term rental host led her to create a one-stop shop for hosts to help monetize their AirBnBs while creating a better experience for their guests. Annie also shares her thoughts on it being a form of passive income and if this could be a way for the younger generation to enter the real estate market. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/339 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 339. And oh gosh, does it not feel like fall? I love fall. I don't know about you, but it's my favorite season. It really is. Sure, I love summer. Who doesn't love summer? But you know what I really like? Not having to put sunscreen all day. That's how pale I am. If I'm out and about for an hour, I have to put sunscreen all over myself because you never know. I might get burnt that day. Fall, that UV index, it's just a blessing. It's just a beautiful thing. And also the changing of the leaves and pumpkin things and cozy times. Oh, I love fall. I love fall as much as I loved recording this interview with my next guest. As I teased on last week's episode, she, I mean,

I was so excited to get her on the show because gosh, did I have some questions. Not that I'm going to buy a real estate property and do an Airbnb right away. But it has been on my mind ever since coming back from Costa Rica and seeing our host kind of live his best life. He's like building a house and he built two smaller houses, which one he's living in and one he rents out. And eventually he's going to move to his bigger house and just rent those out. And he's just like financially independent and he's living my dream. And I'm like, gosh, wouldn't it be cool to do something like this, like have a short-term rental? And I don't know. Anyway, so I was excited to have Annie on the show to kind of answer, you know, get her to answer all of my questions and hopefully

they're your questions too. So we both learn a little bit. Anyways, a little bit about Annie. So she's the co-founder and CEO of The Host Co., the company that makes Airbnbs shoppable. And we talk a little bit more about kind of this new innovation, this kind of pretty cool thing for if you have an Airbnb or plan on having an Airbnb. But she also is a former creative director at both Facebook and Twitter, and so has a lot of experience building successful digital products as well as great stories. But also what's really interesting is we kind of share sort of similar backgrounds in that we both went to film school. So she's a graduate of the USC Film School, and she worked in film internationally and spent a cumulative of four years on projects in Asia, Africa, and Europe. And like I mentioned, she also

has quite a bit of experience on one of my favorite channels, HGTV. So she was a director and writer for shows like Curb Appeal, Landscape Smarts, Color Slash, Find Your Style, and Design to Sell, plus a whole bunch of others. So she really knows her stuff when it comes to, you know, homes and staging and renting things out and just all the things that I really should know more about, but I just don't. I just don't. So you're going to love this episode. But before we get to that interview with Annie, here's just a few words I want to share about this season's podcast sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Does your financial institution share your values?

Because Desjardins is about more than just money. They are on a mission to enrich people's lives and improve the economic and social well-being of Canadians everywhere. Desjardins' main goal as a cooperative is to support its members and make a positive impact on their communities by providing exceptional customer care, offering a variety of financial services, and above all, listening to its members. They've also been at the forefront of sustainable investing as one of the first financial institutions to offer responsible investment portfolios. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're a cooperative making a difference,

visit Desjardins.com. Welcome, Annie, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you. I am so excited to be here. You're welcome. Well, I'm thrilled, quite honestly. This is a topic that I'm personally very interested in. And I don't do a lot of episodes on real estate investing because there's so many shows just dedicated to that. And it is kind of its own world. I feel like a little adjacent to the general personal finance and investing world. But I thought it would be so cool to have you on since you have such an interesting, I mean, your resume is quite interesting, but also just like your personal experience

specifically with short-term rentals. And I feel like as a millennial and Gen Zs, that seems like a world that we are just more drawn to. And I don't know if it could be because we are those consumers. I mean, it's rare when I do a hotel. It's only if it's like I can't get an Airbnb, but I kind of prefer doing a short-term rental if I'm going on a trip. And so as someone who's like, maybe in the future, I'll own some, you know, a property outside of my principal property. And that could be, but I always kind of think more of like, I think I'd be almost more comfortable doing a short term rental than a long term rental with tenants. So anyways, lots of stuff we're going to unpack that I just want to kind of, you know, share my,

you know, I am so excited to have you on the show. But before we really get going, I mean, it's so you you come from the HGTV world, which is so exciting for me because I'm a huge fan of anything HGTV. It's just like porn for me. I just love it. It's my fantasy world, right? Tell me a little bit about how you got started, you know, producing some of these amazing shows I'm sure so many people have watched. And then now you run your own company that is really focused on helping people become their own hosts for their short term rental properties. Yes. So I was a producer director at HGTV. I like to say that my secret skill is I can flip any home

in a week, right? I can see I worked on shows from color splash design to sell design at a dime landscape smart uh curb appeal you name it i've worked on some area of your house if you have a house that i could talk about so um i uh i went to film school i worked in film and television and uh really ended up at hgtv because also that's my shared love of decor, of renovation and of hospitality. So that worked out very well. Very well. I mean, how do you like, because I also went to film school, but I literally like immediately ditched that

and went a totally different direction. How did you get into like going from film school to working on these more real estate and and decor and design shows um so let's see i worked in uh i was in northern california so i went to film school in los angeles and then um moved overseas the other thing that that i have uh in this whole picture is that i'm a lifelong traveler i I spent three years in Asia total. I spent a year in Europe and then Africa and South America. So throw that all in the mix. I had been living in Tokyo and I decided to move back to the States and move to the Bay Area, just not

Southern California. And I met a number of people just working in the industry here. And what the industry here had was a whole lot of houses, right right there's just a lot more and a lot more people who'd never been on tv was the second part of that yeah so um a really great market a lot of shows um as you can see discovery hgtv history they all they're an aggregate for all of these different production companies so i was working for a production company in marin california at the time prior to that i was actually at lucasfilm so i was in marin working for lucasfilm i worked on oh my gosh special effects for um uh i'm trying to remember arnold schwarzenegger movies uh and uh pirates of the caribbean a little bit etc so i would say proximity sadly was a big part of my move to

HGTV. Heck yeah. But I guess it was also that personal passion that you have. I mean, because I've talked to people all day long. I'm like, I, I, me and my husband just bought a house. We previously lived in a townhouse and we bought our first house, house, like adults, you know, but I'm like, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. And I have zero eye for design. It's just like, it is literally, I feel like something that you have or you heck I'm doing and I have zero eye for design it's just like it is literally I feel like something that you have you don't have and I do not have it so I'm curious like you did you always kind of have that just knack for knowing how to make something look pretty because I I wish I could hire you because I have no idea what I'm doing over here um I will say part of that is knack I would say the majority of it is passion so right the more that you learn

blogs tv shows there's so many best practice rules that just over time you absorb and then i started to absorb them very quickly because i was also writing the shows so i had to come up with really the takeaway those those nuggets of knowledge for the audience right um So there's another joke with with my husband who's like, Oh, it's another takeaway, right? I'm curious, can you share some of your takeaways? Because I feel like I probably watched those shows and left me like, I still don't know what I'm doing. Yes, I would say two great takeaways for interiors. Your rug is usually too small. It should be touching. Yeah, it should be touching. Touching if you have two couches facing each other, at least touching them. You're usually if you see design and you think something's off, but I can't figure it out. The rug is too small

and the art is hung too high. There are really prescriptive design rules for the distance that things should be from one another and the height of things. And that isn't based on design. It's based on human behavior and the way our eyes work, right? So sure, you can be creative and you can move things a little bit, but just as humans, you can kind of sense when something is off, when seats are too far from one another, right? Or when the pendant light over the dining room table is too high. You think something's wrong, but I'm not sure what it is. There are very clear best practices for, hey, your painting should be, the center of it should be 57 inches if it's in a guest room, right? Versus, yeah, it is so, it is, the internet is such an amazing thing.

I always think, what did we do before we had the internet at our fingertips, right? What did we do? I think just try to copy the neighbors or something. I don't know. Well, also, I mean, it's marketing, right? There's so much to be said for, I mean, we could talk about this all day, but minimalism is such marketing that you don't, you know, you're spending a lot of money to have less clutter, to constantly be cleaning this. All of these very aspirational things that I think, especially with HGTV, we have to really, and with everything with Instagram, we have to say, they're just trying to get my money.

And they're trying to get it in this way versus really just taking it all with a grain of salt. Right. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, too. I think there's there's probably an element to, you know, just seeing some of these, you know, makeover shows like, oh, that looks beautiful. But is it practical? Because sometimes you'll like integrate, like even with the minimalism stuff, you're like, I need stuff, though. You know, sometimes they take too much away. Or I know like the maybe this is even over, but I feel like the trend that I finally kind of figured out for kitchens that I love and houses is like, everything's white. I'm like, that is not practical, though. You're making pasta, you know, it's gonna get messy. Two things that I find very impractical. All open shelving. Yeah. Whoa, dust, right?, my husband's like, I wish we could have open shelf. I'm like, absolutely not the dust. Are you going to dust the plates? I'm not going to dust the plates. Yeah. The dust and the vanity plates, right. That no one ever uses. Like what I use, I have two small children, like no way I'm having open shelves, right. I gotta

hide. I gotta hide stuff. And then, uh, even for, for for for gen z the cloud couch those white puffy couches right um does not look easy to it's it's puffy so that it's not a taut surface and it's white i just look at it and i think how i also have two dogs i think that just seems like people have to sit on the floor you know what no one's allowed to sit on their couch exactly or they'd like put the plastic on like everyone's grandparents did back yeah exactly please don't sit on the actual couch it's for decorative purposes only yeah oh my gosh yeah well that's that's I mean yeah anyways this show is not about decoration but I could like talk about that just get all your tips because it's so fascinating but so so at what point did you pivot then from producing these shows into doing your own thing and really focusing on kind of this new, I feel like, kind of segment of real estate investing, which is short-term rentals?

So I went from – I feel like the evolution of media, first it was media film and then it was digital media and then it just became digital right the products we consume now it used to be television right and you didn't have everything on your phone you didn't have instagram you didn't have tiktok so we've gone from film to some kind of digital media and now almost everything is digital i mean we still watch movies so i especially being in the bay area kind of as a creative director went through producing creative directing uh i worked um embedded at um at google at airbnb on digital products and those were sometimes i was shooting for them shooting videos uh making documentaries and also making digital products uh and then i was a creative director at twitter and then i was a creative director at facebook so that's my um

my way into and it's funny, because I was making really similar content for all even HGTV, right became much more of a digital product and shoots. And throughout all of that, I have been a short term rental host. So I was short term renting. Before there was Airbnb, I short term rented on Craigslist, which Oh, wow. Oh, I mean, yeah, I remember Craigslist. So sketchy. Like, what was I doing? Yeah, but I was a real consummate traveler. I still am. I want my sister was living in Guatemala. I wanted to go visit her. I didn't have any money. Okay, well, let's, you know, let's find someone on Craigslist for three weeks here and another two weeks there. And then have owned properties and do own properties that I currently rent out.

So went deeper and deeper into short-term rentals. And one of the producer directors at HGTV is one of my best friends. He came to me a couple of years ago and he said, hey, we have all of these amazing properties, but guests check in. And as soon as they check in, most of his properties are in Southern California. They rank the 8C to 62. Right. And then they open up the doors. Right. And then they break the wine glasses. So from the hosting side, he said, first of all, I would love something that I could answer a lot of their questions, which are, hey, do you have sunblock? It's, you know, we're going on a hike in the morning and we're 20 miles from a store. Where do I get beer at two in the morning?

Where did you get this amazing pottery? Do you have sand toys? Because I'm next to the beach. And again, we just got here and we can't leave. Right. So answering all these questions. Do you have extra firewood? Do you have extra tote bags, et cetera, et cetera? And I said, yeah, I have this all the time because we have really curated our properties to be the best hospitality experience.

So it's an experience. Right. When you walk in the door. Oh, I love that. I love that. Where did they get that? I mean, I'm the same exact way whenever I go to a property. Right. And that's why, as a guest, you want to stay at that property, right? So over the last two years, while I was still at Facebook, I was working on this, not on Facebook time, I just want to say that. In case anyone from Facebook is listening. Yeah, exactly. We built a platform that enables any short-term rental host on Airbnb, VRBO, even Swimply, right, to set up a digital store for their rental. And in that rental, they can sell items that they stock themselves in the house. They put them in the stock closet and the guest doesn't get the code until their email receipt. But they can sell anything in the house from, you know, sunblock,

phone chargers are a really big one. Um, you know, Hey, we're going to leave out a Polaroid camera and we're going to sell the film because it's too, you know, you can't give it away to everyone. It's too expensive to we're in a bachelorette party destination and we're going to sell a box of six colorful wigs. Right. And every single girl's weekend that comes in is like, of course I'll buy that, right? Of course I want that for Instagram, right? So in-home items, we now have hosts on our platform who are doing pre-arrival scheduled items, which is the best, I would say. Stock my pantry before I get there, add fresh flowers, add balloons, add a mid-stay clean. We have people even say, we're going to come in and do a tarot reading, right? Or we're

going to do a sound bath. So it's adding these kind of fun services that make your experience better. And then on the same platform, you can sell rentals like kayaks, bikes, right? We have people doing margarita machines, right? Because it's a little too expensive for you to just leave out, but that kind of thing. And then early check-in, late checkout, oh, I forgot my pet fee. So it's basically a digital storefront for anything in your rental space. Which makes so much sense, like you mentioned, because a lot of these Airbnbs are not right close to the city. I'm just sharing, Sue and me and my husband are going to Costa Rica and using Airbnb and it is up a mountain and up a mountain. And, uh, we have to have a four

by four to get there. And I'm like, how, like we're trying to bring as much as we can, but obviously we have limited suitcase. Uh, and also, you know, it's just like, we don't know where the stores are and stuff like that. So having an experience like that sounds honestly awesome. Like, yeah, sure. As a consumer, it'll cost you a little bit more, but also the convenience or just thinking about like some of the girls trips I've been on sometimes it's like well we have to you know get outfits or you know we're doing a bachelorette kind of thing you have to put it in your suitcase wouldn't it be nicer if it was already there and sometimes it's not possible to like amazon delivery to an airbnb that you're not checked in yet so yeah yeah i mean not only is it yeah i've had everywhere i've gone

oh i want to get that thing I forgot. Oh, I don't know the address here. And I don't know if Amazon even delivers here. But I will also say for cities, I mean, I will, the morning after a good friend's wedding, I will pay $40 for Advil and Gatorade if it is in the back. Right? It's true. I was in New York last week. And I had just gotten in. I was there for 24 hours. And I stayed at a some, I was in New York last week and I had just gotten in.

I was there for 24 hours and I stayed at a hotel because I was in, I was right by Central Park and I just needed, it was a quick meeting. And literally on my block, there are at least four bodegas, right? On my block. But I got into the room and I ate the $20 bag of chips and the $22 bottle of Fiji water, right? Which is so ridiculous, but there you go, right? Yeah, because sometimes you check in and you're like, I can't move. I've had a long day. I don't

want to go back outside to get the thing. Yeah, that's amazing. So speaking a little bit more about being a really great host, I think for people, especially like myself, who has never done it, I've been on the other side of it. So I know what a good experience I think can be from that side, that perspective. But if someone wants to get into that, maybe they're already looking for properties, but they just want to kind of know what are some things that I should know in advance in terms of being a good host. And then we can maybe even kind of talk a little bit more about where to actually get your property to Airbnb. But just like looking at what makes a really good host? How can you stand out? Because that's when you're looking i mean when i look on airbnb is the host and that information the reviews so

so important yeah um oh my gosh there's so much there but we'll start with uh something that is unique is really useful airbnb so airbnb is one the main player right but then we're we've seen like 20 other ones come online, which I think is fantastic. But Airbnb recently changed its algorithm. You may have seen this in the last month. They now have a bunch of icons at the top that say interesting properties. It used to be live like a local and now it's find somewhere interesting to stay, right? So they're prioritizing unusual places, you know, yurts, you know, an old plane or whatever it is, something that makes your listing stands out. People will often talk about an Instagram wall, which I know is a total eye roll, but, you know,

we're in places now, yeah, to share them. So something that is this combination of the right location, right? And the right amenities. And when you're thinking about an Airbnb, people are going because they want space, right? They want somewhere with a yard, or if you're in Joshua Tree, they want five acres, right? They want to wander around and take photos. amenities, there's a really interesting insight that we found both on our platform and just in Airbnb in general, is that people will choose an Airbnb for the experience of the Airbnb, not necessarily of the city, right? So let's say you're going to New York City, you're going to New York City to see New York City. You might stay at a cool hotel, but you're going to New York City. You're going to New York City to see New York City. You might stay at a cool hotel, but you're going to New York City, right? Often people will go to an Airbnb and they won't leave all weekend, right? Or maybe they'll like walk down the road or walk to the little town. But the experience is the Airbnb. So making it an experience is really important.

And telling the experience of that, telling that story of that experience through your description, through your photos is super important. Like, hey, you guys get there. You get in. There's a welcome basket for you. Then you get in the cowboy pool. Then you get on the outdoor swings and you take photos. And we've seen that extend to people shopping habits as well in Airbnbs that are shoppable, like the ones that are on our

platform, they will buy things like the, okay, we just got to this Airbnb. It's a snowy cabin. Oh, we want the robes. We want the paper face masks. We want the microwave popcorn. And we want the s'mores because we're going to have that be an extension of our, we're putting the robes on, we're putting the face masks on, we're taking a picture, we're getting the popcorn and watching the movie or doing the firewood, right? So something that creates that whole narrative from beginning to end is what people because they immediately want to imagine themselves in that space, rather than I'm imagining myself going to the city and do what I'm doing in that city, right? Yeah, no, true. I mean, I think, yeah, a big draw for like,

you know, the place that we're staying at was kind of the story. The photos, of course, is super important. And but yeah, you it was because we were envisioning ourselves being there and outside and in the pool and looking at the ocean view and all that kind of stuff. That is kind of the epic thing. But you know, speaking of, I guess, to besides creating that experience, what are some really key things for, I guess, marketing yourself on some of these platforms, because that's also the key thing is like you got to, you know, copywriting is kind of important. The photos are super important. There could be some amazing places out there. But if it has not a very descriptive, well description, and you know, the video or the photos are, you know, minimal, or there's, they're just not, you know, as good as it could be. I'm not gonna look at it. So So what, you know, are some important things that people should take a look at and include in their listing? So just like with any Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, they work on an algorithm. So getting to the front page of the algorithm,

you're a lot more likely to be seen, right? No one's going to go to the 10th page to find your listing, right? And they set that algorithm on a number of factors on how good your description is, your photos are, your reviews, your general popularity. They gauge how long people stopped and looked at your photos, how many photos they looked at, how many people have messaged you. So there are quite a few platforms, and I can provide this info afterwards too. It's such an uninteresting answer, but at this point, using a one-time service that says, here are the keywords you need to beat the algorithm in your area. And here is the number of words you need in your description to get to a better place in the

algorithm. And here's the number of photos that you need, right? And that service that exists like that. Yeah, there's a few I'm trying to remember offhand most there's a lot of property management system softwares, but there's other ones. I will send the names of them. There's a number of them actually that say, I think there's like optimize my BNB. There's, there's a few out there. Okay. So people can find these out there. I didn't even know those existed. That's so smart.

Yeah. I mean, they, they're very smart because they can, they're doing the number crunching, which I, I kind of detest that in a certain way. I wish it was not that, but I think that that is an advantage. And also pricing. There is technology for dynamic pricing. And what dynamic pricing does

is it can connect directly to your listing. And it can, this is another thing the algorithm does, it can set your price $5 cheaper than the house next to you if both houses are available that day yeah oh yeah is that is that through that like other software or is that through airbnb that is true there's a company called price labs they do that i think maybe air dna i'll send you over a list but those are some of the ones that that we work with um it is i mean people will if you

have two houses that look really similar that are similar size people will go with a house that's five dollars cheaper it's just kind of human nature right it's like flights right you're like oh it's six dollars five dollars cheaper yeah and for whatever reason you think even though you have to get up five hours earlier we're like yeah it's five dollars cheaper yeah and have a layover right yeah exactly like it's okay i'm saving money money. You're like, are you though? Are you? Honestly, even that is just like super valuable. It was someone who's never done it before. That's super helpful. But yeah, it's unfortunate that you have to go to all that work. But it's the game, it's the technology game these days. It's not just about having a nice property and having people

have a good time. It's about being seen and I guess using just digital marketing to your advantage. Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing is being on more than one platform is very helpful as well. So there are again services I don't this is I don't work for any of these services, by the way. But there are services another again that you've just kind of put in your technology stack where they will list your property on Airbnb, Vrbo, Booking.com, you know, Vacasa, etc. And they will sync the calendar. So you're seeing, it's basically like spreading out your inventory, right? So that you are, you know, if you're just at Airbnb, Brian Chesky, who's a wonderful guy, but Brian Chesky is your boss. Right. If you're trying to work for yourself, it's like, how do I make this so that I'm spreading out the risk as well?

And I guess that's that's like the big concern. Even thinking about this is very exciting. Who doesn't love the idea of, you know, sort of passive income? I always hate the word passive income. Like there's a lot of work involved. So is it really passive? But, you know, but I think that the big the other kind of part to it is you are taking a risk because you are investing your own money into this property and hoping that it will be successful um so kind of let's start a

little uh chat about you know since you have lots of experience doing it yourself how do you know what's a good you know how to make a good investment in a property how like is it just like well you just see how it goes or you do your own research to see what areas are like a good opportunity? Yeah, you do a lot of research online. There are services that will do this for you also. And we'll say, here's the top 20 picks of the week. Right. And you look at, if you're looking at any property on your own, if you're looking at Redfin or something, go and look at the nightly rates of the properties around there and what they're making. You can do a trial on this website called AirDNA, and you can do one city, and it will tell you the occupancy rate of that area as well. So you can really drill down on the likelihood of how much you're going to make and get to a place where just making sure you're always covered. I like to say to people,

and I've heard this over and over again, I've had this experience that you are not making boatloads of cash on your Airbnb. Sure, it's a really great, you you call it asset class but you're making the money on the equity more than anything else building some months you're gonna have you know it's almost everywhere is seasonal in some way some months you're gonna be booked 80% of the time some months you're gonna be booked 10% of the time so spreading that out over the year um and uh also when it's your house it is really hard not to put money back into improvements. It's so hard where it's like, oh, but it would look so much better.

We could really use some landscaping because sometimes, you know, you want to stay there too. Um, so you end up putting money back into it. So my whole, once you have one, you have one, but then, you know, a year later or two years later, um, you're able to refinance that and take that cash and put it to a second and then a third. And that's when you start to make, or maybe, you know, maybe you do some improvements and you refinance it after, you know, with a small local bank after four months, right? You only really start to make what that, I'm totally doing air quotes over here to that passive income. Right. When you have multiple properties, but starting with one, you're really in it for the longer play of the equity, which after a couple of years, generally, if you're picking a place in the right area that's up and coming with tourists or what have you, you're able to play with that money after about two years. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'm all about the longterm thing when it comes to investing.

I'm curious too. Now there's a big difference between investing in like your home country. Now I'm in Canada, you're in the U S but you know, lots of people are now looking at outside, you know, South America or Asia or Europe or whatever the case, what are some kind of I'm not sure if you've actually personally have experience with investing outside of the US. But you know, what are some things, you know, that people need to think about with that? I know, that's kind of a whole other layer of legal stuff and and, you know, you know, risk, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on that. My thoughts, we're looking at some spaces as well, overseas, are make sure you have a well established property manager, and that they are doing the bulk of the work, right? Particularly

if there's a language, even if you speak the other language, they know the ropes. So it's better if you have a property manager, you might have to pay them 30% instead of 25%, right? But they are paying the cleaner, they're helping you with the tot tax, right? They are booking any, any contractors, because if you're that far away, and there's also a time delay, something like that, it is worth it to pay 30% of that to someone else. Do you use, well, you know, for lots of your properties, do you use a management company? Or do you do lots of it yourself? Oh, I use a property management company all the way, right? It's, you know, how much is your time worth and be a startup CEO also, but

I have property managers, and they are so well worth it, right? They startup CEO also, but I have property managers and they are so well worth it. Right. They are. Because also, you know, something with Airbnb guests is they want to make sure sometimes, this may sound bad, but that they're getting their money's worth. Right. Yeah. Rarely, and I say to Airbnbs all the time, do I say, oh, what a steal?

You know, it's this weird psychological thing of like, I want more for my money or I didn't get enough for my money. I think that's just a, maybe a natural thing in Airbnbs, but, um, they have a lot of questions. So you're going to have back and forth from guests all the time. And again, what is your, your time worth? Uh, and if you can also find a property manager that can help you automate that. So automatic replies to those questions, our property managers, hey, oh, you forgot something? Hey, here's a link to our store. Or if you want link checkout, here's a link to our store. So they've started to really help us automate that whole system. And they're also nearby, right?

We've had, hey, we can't turn off the propane and it's three in the morning, right? Or there's a stranger in the hot tub. I have literally had the morning, right? Or there's a stranger in the hot tub. I have literally had that happen, right? So yeah, you got to be close because the main thing about that is five stars. It's not, it's really not the best system on Airbnb, but if you get a 4.8, you drop in the algorithm and not a five stars, right? So you have to, you have to have someone who's super responsive and can go over there is, is important. Yeah. Well, I guess my other question then is how do you find a good management company? Cause I feel like we've all heard some horror stories of like, Oh, I hired this person or this company and they weren't that great.

How can you do your due diligence? How do you know it's a good company to work with? Um, I would, you know, there are 20 over 25,000 property management companies in the US, which is a good and growing because this industry is growing so much, right? Um, uh, look for someone who has track record, obviously, um, look for someone who has track record, obviously. Look for someone who has a number of other listings and check the reviews on those listings. Obviously, someone reputable. I've seen too many people say, oh, yeah, my cousin can go over there if there's a problem. You know, no, your cousin is not a hospitality professional. And your investment is going to not do very well if they don't have five-star service, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely. is going to not do very well if that if they don't have five star service, right?

No, absolutely. I'm curious what you're so you know, one thing that I've seen over the past couple years, especially because of COVID, is there was a big shift that we hadn't seen in a lot from these short term rentals, because people couldn't travel. And so I knew people that owned properties, whether they're long term or short term, and they could not find anyone to rent them. And that was, you know, kind of a scary time. You're like, how long are we going to deal with this? And we're paying out of pocket for this property, and no one wants it. You know, what, I guess, what was your personal experience with that? And what are your kind of thoughts for the future? Or was there any kind of lessons that maybe we can all take from that just so we can be better protected and better prepared for whatever may happen in the future? Um, a couple of things we my co founder did end up selling properties during during during the beginning of COVID. Right? Because yeah, if you have a lot of properties, and no one's, you know,

no one's buying, you're, you're really in trouble. Thankfully, the you know, the government did that's a business, right? That's hospitality business. So, um, couple of things on that. One, uh, I would say, um, try and obviously grow reserves for when those emergencies happen, um, instead of spending the money on new landscaping. If it's booking, the landscaping is great, but you don't live there, right? I am so prone to this all the time. I'm like, oh, we should get some new dining, that dining room furniture is looking old, right? Or whatever it is, it can wait, like just try and wait a little bit, try and build up a nest egg because, you know, repairs also happen. But if you are taking a loss,

I mean, when you have a short-term rental, I think it's something like seven, I'll have to look this up too, seven revenue streams on a short-term rental. And one of them is loss because you're operating a business at a loss. So if you have another business, you can take a big chunk of that as a loss if you are losing money that year, which is the only kind of silver lining to that, right? No, absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like too, I think the reason this kind of came to mind was, there is the time where yeah, a lot of people are like, Oh, what's going to happen. But then also now as we're coming out of COVID, and I feel like there's, it's a weird, interesting

time stock markets down, people are calling for a recession. But then there's also still I think a lot more people that are overall more interested in investing in real estate investing than there ever was, especially young people, millennials, Gen Z. And I know they are kind of, I feel like a big reason why this is kind of being propelled a lot more. Maybe why I'm just naturally interested in this. I'm curious. Yeah. Also, you know, do you see a lot more younger people becoming hosts and owning it? And do you think this is kind of, I mean, I have so many conversations with people and on the news and stuff about how expensive property is.

I mean, I live in Toronto. It's one of the most expensive cities in North America. And people, you know, young people just can't afford homes. Is this another way that people, young people especially, can get into the market? Yes. And I am really starting to see with our users groups. So young people, Gen Z banding together and buying a property. So four friends, six friends, we have people on our team who are 24 year old on that works for our company.

He's buying his first short term rental with his friends, right? And then you also have more manpower, man and woman power to remodel it, right? To bring in the furniture for it. So that's a great way to do it as long as people don't want to stay there too often. That's where it gets into, you know, make sure you have it in writing. He just gets to use this one weekend a year, right? If that's it or midweek a year because that's when you just gets to use this one weekend a year, right? If that's it, or midweek a year, because that's when you're going to make your money. If you have, you know, 50, 52 weekends a year, you're going to lose a lot of money on those weekends, right? So that's part of it. The second

part is, I think just DIY culture has become so, I mean, if I didn't have to do anything all day, I would just watch remodeling DIY on TikTok. I literally could watch remodeling TikToks for eight hours a day, right? So that's a huge part of it. I think it's, you know, in the last even five years, it's something like 20% of people had used Airbnb and now 80% had, right? So we see the benefit of it as travelers. Again, I wish I knew that stat offhand, but we all know what it is now. And I think COVID really accelerated that because people can work remote.

They spend more time when they go to a short-term rental listing as well. And it is a great way to, again, build equity if you can't buy a house, right? Because someone else is paying your mortgage. And even if you're going in as a group of five on it, the biggest watch out that I would say in that space is HGTV shows. Again, you know, if anyone's listening, it works there. They aren't real. Right. So, yeah, something when they finish a house, Chip and Joanne finish a house or whatever. And they're like, oh, it costs three thousand dollars.

It costs three thousand dollars without the fifty thousand dollars for the labor. And that're like, oh, it costs $3,000. It costs $3,000 without the $50,000 worth of labor. And that's professional labor, right? That's the electrician, that's the plumber, right? That's the carpenter. And my co-founder, he still flips houses and he has a design company where he and an HGTV designer, they flip houses, they do the construction, they do the design. And he said, we've had so many young people come to us and say, we bought this house in Landers, California, or 29 Palms, California for $80,000. And we have $25,000 to remodel it. Right? Gosh, well, it doesn't have working it doesn't have water, right? Or it doesn't have electricity. Or, you know, you can't expect people are going to stay, maybe they're going to stay there. But you have to do your spreadsheets,

right? You have to do your math of how much you're going to make. If you're making $25 a night, that's not covering your utilities, right? That's not covering anything. It has to be a place people want to stay. So you have to have a very clear get, even if you can't try and get estimates, if you're looking to buy a house and you know the things you need to do, get estimates before you buy it. In that area, you know, outside of LA, about two, within two hours of LA, there are so many people buying up vacation homes for that reason. They can go back to LA for auditions or callbacks, right? But they don't have to live in LA. But they just, they're overextending themselves, and then no one wants to stay at their house. So just making sure

you have everything possible, including the permit fees, right? And the electricity. And if you have a hot tub, it's going to be $250 in, you know, in electricity every month to keep that running. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I mean, part of the reason why we bought this place, it came with a two seater hot tub, which is Hey, okay, but we got it. We have yet to actually like fill it up probably because we're too cheap. It's expensive, right? Hot tubs are expensive. That's the one thing I learned from my parents like, Oh, don't get a hot tub. They're a waste of money. We may try it in the winter because that might be kind of exciting. Um, but, uh, no, that's really helpful. I'm curious, um, offhand just cause you know, from a beginner's perspective, what are some

key like ratios or, or, you know, when it comes to kind of spreadsheeting and doing the numbers, some things to kind of look out for,. Like don't, this is a bad investment if you're not going to make X or if it's going to cost you X. That is something that I can provide as an actual spreadsheet resource that I'm happy to send over. Those, again, offhand, I don't have the exact numbers, but you probably want to make at least two,

it'd be great to make 2x your combined expenses because 25% of that is going to go to your property manager. Then you're going to have all of your upkeep. You're also, in the beginning, you have to furnish it. And that's the other thing. You know, you can certainly, there's Facebook Marketplace. There's really creative ways to furnish things. There's discounts when you buy in bulk um but it's still gonna cost you 30 grand right so really calculating all your expenses and then you're gonna have to replace things when they break yeah when you are furnishing are there things that you should spend money on and just cheap out on like i'm thinking for like dishes and glasses, don't ever spend that much money on just go to Ikea or something like that, because that stuff's going to get broken. Yeah, that stuff's going to get broken. We often go to,

you know, Ikea, Wayfair, there's a new company called Minoan, and they will do all of the buying for you at a discount. And they will do all of the coordination. I don't work for them either, but I just met them at a conference and they seem really cool. So I'm shouting them out. And then really just those little accessories or those things that people will remember or they'll notice. Those are the things that you want to spend money on. Right. Those those photograph moments, you know, the vintage and the things you want in the photos that are going to stand out specifically. So generally not those really big pieces, unless you have a big piece, it's like you walk in and that's it. No one wants, everyone has seen the same Ikea art before. So, you know, go to society six or something and get

some really interesting prints that you can frame in Ikea frames but just make it unique but those those the bones of it you don't have to make as unique it's true there's this one airbnb that we just stayed in uh during the kind of interim of you know we didn't have access to our house yet and it was just in toronto and it wasn't it you know the actual location wasn't great but the like the design i don't know who his host was, but he had amazing taste. And like, this place was so cool. I felt not even cool enough to be in it. And that's like the vibe. And I got some great photos for my Instagram, but honestly, pretending it was my house. And yeah, I think it's that, that those little things that's like, what could people, what do you want them to feel when they walk in the door? My last question, just because you mentioned cost, there's also the time cost. How much time should you kind of make sure that you

have to furnish? You know, once you've already bought the property, maybe let's say you've already done renos or it doesn't require renos, just to even furnish and get it up and running, how long could that take? Like, are we talking weeks? Are we talking months? Most hosts try and get a place furnished in one weekend. They will do a big put because, you know, you're on the clock, right? So you already bought it. The sooner you get it rented, the more, you know, the better. So, hey, you and your partner or you and your three friends buy everything, open it all

together, get it furnished and get it ready to go. It's really this kind of culture thing in the hosting world. Like, let's go. Let's have everything and get it online by Tuesday. There are certain things, and this is back to, like, interesting items, right? So those interesting items are also things that you should be selling. So here's an example. So that's another revenue stream, right? Where you can actually make almost as much as you can from renting as you can

from selling things. And those are the things people remember. So we are in touch with a company that makes these amazing quilts for cities, really kind of bespoke. And there's one like for the Outer Banks in the Carolinas, and there's one for Atlanta, and there's one for for the Outer Banks in the Carolinas and there's one for Atlanta and there's one from Maryland and they're really just these memory pieces um and if you have one over a bed spread right they're really cool you know like they're cool quilts right um you can sell those for you can buy them for 60 bucks and you can resell them for 150 dollars and everyone that stays is gonna buy it or if you have that that cute Instagramable moment of we have an apron and everyone's coming here for a family reunion because it's eight rooms on the shore, right? People are going to, they're going to take that home. So you can get that for

$15. You put, you know, 10 of them in your closet and sell them for $60, right? So you're just adding this additional revenue stream through taking that experience home with you. Yeah. Yeah. That's just something I think, yeah, a lot of people probably don't think about, but yeah, it seems pretty logical because when you think about it, if you go to a hotel, they're selling you stuff inside that room. You can, I think, buy anything in there you want. You're like, you want a pillow? Yeah, you can buy that. You want that robe? You want the mini bar? You can buy that. So why not do it with your Airbnb? That makes sense. Yeah. What what's that makes sense to me yeah hotels have operated on that model for a long time you're not selling the room you're

selling the experience and don't leave the hotel go to our restaurant go to our spa go to our gift shop right they're trying to kind of keep you in there um so offering that to hosts or sorry to guests who already are like oh i don't want to buy some junky airport souvenir, but I need to take something with me. You know? Yeah. No, it's smart. It's smart. Well, I know you have tons of information about all this on your website and your socials and just clearly you have a lot of resources.

So I will try to get those from you and include them in the show notes for this episode so people can check them out. But, you know, thanks so much for joining me. Where can people find more information about you and The Host Co.? So we are at thehost.co, so www.thehost.co for all of our info. And you can also learn really interesting things about what's selling. I will tell you, people want to buy the weirdest stuff, which is so fun. I can talk about that for an hour. And we're on Instagram at the host company. And we have one of the largest Instagram communities in all of the hosting, in all of hosting. So we offer new tips. We offer, you know, five things to this, the outdoor amenities that are in a pool that you should have. We just have just fantastic content for particularly for people who are just getting

started hosting. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much, Annie, for joining me once again and sharing all of your amazing tips with everybody listening. Thank you as well. I clearly could talk about this all day. So I really appreciate it. And that was episode 339 with Annie Sloan on the show. She is the co-founder and CEO of The Host Co. And you can find more information about her company at thehost.co. Very easy. You can also find her on Instagram at The Host Company. And she's also on TikTok and has a YouTube channel. And I will include those links in the show notes for this episode. Just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 339. And that is where you can find the show notes for this episode. And if you want to find the show notes for any

episode ever, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash the number of that episode. Or if you don't know what the number is, even though it should be on there somewhere, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast and you can search by season or, you know, latest episode, most popular episode, whatever. It'll be there. So jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast is where you can find all of that info. Okay, got some things to share with you as always. So stick around. Just want to share a few words about this season's podcast sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Do you feel valued at your financial institution? Because Desjardins is on a mission to enrich the lives of Canadians, help build stronger communities, and educate its members so they can confidently reach their financial goals. Not only do they offer one-of-a-kind customer care

and offer a variety of financial services to fit your needs, as a cooperative, they put their members first. So if you're looking for an institution that's making an impact, look no further than Desjardins. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're making a difference, visit Desjardins.com. Okay, so even though Annie is not an author author so i do not have a book to give away i still have other books that i'm giving away as my big book giveaway that i do every

single season so if you just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest that is where you can find all the books that i'm currently giving away and as a reminder, what are the books that we're currently giving away? I'm giving away Kelly LaValle's Untying the Knot, Alan Henry's Seen, Heard, and Paid, Eric Balchunas' The Bogle Effect, and Nicole Lappin's book Becoming Superwoman. So you can go to jessicamorris.com slash contest to find all those books and enter whichever books that you would like to possibly win. All right, so other things to share with you. First and foremost, if you didn't hear in some of my previous episodes, I have a second podcast that I recorded this summer in partnership with CBC and Desjardins that you can check out called Clean Slate. I was able to, it was a limited series. And so we did interviews with four

inspiring Canadians who are doing amazing things in their own and they're doing, you know, their own businesses and just like super crazy inspiring. And they're also video podcasts. So you can actually watch them or you can listen to them, whatever you like. And so you just have to go to cbc.ca slash clean dash slate. That is where you can find it. There's even a little preview, a little trailer on my Instagram at Jessica I. Morehouse. You can check that out to get a little tease. But yeah, go on there.

It's a very different podcast. I'm not interviewing specifically money experts, but we, you know, so there are people that are, you know, small business owners are doing something amazing online. And but we do talk about money. So it's actually really interesting talking to non people in the finance bubble talk about money. So it's kind of nice to do something a little bit different. So make sure to check that out. Also, in case you don't know, I also have a YouTube channel. That's right. I'm on the YouTube might as well use this film to agree, right? Otherwise, it's completely useless. So you can find me just easily. My name is just Jessica Morehouse on YouTube. So you can easily Google

it or you can just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash YouTube and it'll direct you right there. And one last self-promo thing. In case you don't know, I have an investing course, which is kind of ties into me teasing next week's episode. I have a course called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. It is pretty much everything you should know as an investor and as a Canadian. And then also I show you specifically how to start investing on your own in a passive way. So you know, when I'm always talking about, you know, passive investing and index funds, that's what I'm talking about. That's what the course really focuses on, because I think it's a great strategy for most people, including myself. That is how I invest my money. And so you can learn more about that at jessicamorehouse.com slash

course. You can check out all of the different student reviews and the curriculum and everything and apply. And then you get a little chat with me, go on a call with me to see if it's the right fit for you and what your goals are. So make sure to check that out at JessicaMorehouse.com slash course. And since I mentioned next week's guest has something to do with investing. Oh, yes, I have Joseph Hogue on the show. And if you're, you know, into the YouTube and into watching, you know, financial people on YouTube, then you're probably already familiar with him because he has like half a million or more subscribers on YouTube. Like he's pretty, he's kind of a big deal. Also, I've just been following him for the longest time because, well, he's been doing it for a while,

but also I just enjoy his, you know, kind of signature bow tie. You know, some people have like a signature style. So you always remember who they are. It works. He's the guy with the bow tie. So you're going to love that episode. We really get into what's going on with investing. What are some things you should know? What are some mistakes you should avoid? But yeah, and also he used to work in the industry. So he's not just a YouTuber for, you know, YouTubing sake. He's seen both sides of working in the field. And now he just creates financial education content. So you're going to love next week's episode. So with that, shout out once again to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout.

Thanks so much for editing this show. And thank you for listening to this episode and the show. I really, really, really, really appreciate it. And of course, you know, you're always welcome to reach out to me over email Jessica at Jessica morehouse.com. Only nice things, please. Not that anyone's emailed me anything mean that would be a lot of effort. I mean, no, people have, but not often, thank goodness. But also feel free to like hit me up over Instagram DM. I honestly am always in my DMS and try my best to answer every single one that I get. So if you have, you know, I don't know, just thoughts or you want to say, hey, you know, do that. I'm at

Jessica I. Morehouse or at More Money Podcast on Instagram. So that's where you can find me. And please check the handle. If someone is DMing you and you're like, is Jessica DMing me? Check the handle because it could be a spam bot who's trying to like get you into something sketchy like crypto, which I would never do because I'm not a big fan of a crypto. So just be just be safe out there. There's some there's some scammy scams online. Just got to be diligent. Got to be careful. So yeah. Anyways, with that, thanks again for listening. Have a great week. And I will see you back here next Wednesday. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.