More Money Podcast - 343 Managing Money and Grief as a Widow - Richard Dri, CFP and Vice President of Dri Financial Group

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Today I'm diving into an important topic that I've never explored before on the More Money Podcast — widowhood. When my guest, Richard Dri, lost his wife Mary in early 2020, it not only changed his life but his financial advisory business too. Richard has since switched gears to focus on helping clients navigate their finances through their grief. This episode is an incredibly important reminder to not leave estate planning until it's too late. Richard Dri is a Certified Financial Planner with close to 30 years of experience and is currently the Portfolio Manager and Vice President of Dri Financial Group. Since the loss of his wife, Richard has been on a mission to help others navigate the financial ups and downs of widowhood, which also inspired him to launch his Widowhood and Money Podcast. In this episode, Richard shares his own experience with widowhood as well as his advice for people experiencing this major life-altering event. We also get into the financial side of death, by which Richard shares the importance of cash flow, understanding asset allocations and fees, and why you should avoid emotional decision-making. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/343 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I am your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 343. And we're exploring a topic that we've not explored before. And I'm very excited, even if the topic may seem not super, I mean, it's not morbid exactly, but it is a serious topic. And that's why I want to have my next guest on the show because it is really important. And it's why I want to have my next guest on the show because it is really important and it's not something that gets talked about often, but it is likely something that a lot of us will experience. And so we need to better understand how to navigate this. And what I'm talking about is widowhood and money. You know, I have had some guests on the show to talk about

divorce, but you know, when you become a widow or a widower, it's a different situation. You know, sometimes it is sudden. Sometimes you do have some time to plan. And that's why I want to have Richard Dree on the show. He is a financial advisor with over 20 years of experience. And he has some personal experience with this topic. In 2020, he lost his wife, Mary, after a battle with cancer. And it is his legacy to her to help others navigate their journey through grief. And he helps people in transition, whether it be through death or divorce. And he also has a podcast himself called Widowhood and Money. So if you want to check that out, after listening to this episode, if this is something that

you want to learn more extensively about, just make sure to check out his podcast where he talks about widowhood and money and relationships. And in the process, he hopes to really help people understand a little bit more about themselves and honestly how to move forward with knowledge, strength, and also optimism. And so we have a lot of things to touch on and explore in this episode with Richard and I. I know you're going to really find a lot of value out of it. But before I get to that interview, here's just a few words I want to share about this podcast season's sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Does your financial institution share your values? Because Desjardins is about more than just money. They are on a

mission to enrich people's lives and improve the economic and social well-being of Canadians everywhere. Desjardins' main goal as a cooperative is to support its members and make a positive impact on their communities by providing exceptional customer care, offering a variety of financial services, and above all, listening to its members. They've also been at the forefront of sustainable investing as one of the first financial institutions to offer responsible investment portfolios. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're a cooperative making a difference, visit Desjardins. how they're a cooperative making a difference, visit Desjardins.com. Welcome, Richard, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Well, thank you, Jessica, for having me. I'm looking forward to our discussion today. Yes, yes. It's sort of a, well, sort of a somber topic, but I think an important topic,

and that's why I really wanted to have you on the show, is because one of your areas of expertise, I know you have many, but one of your areas is helping people navigate what happens in the event that you become a widow. Now, I've had a few guests on the show to discuss what happens if there's a dissolution of marriage, if you are divorcing or separating, how to navigate that. But when your partner passes away and you become a widow, it's a very different situation, I would imagine. So first, I want to kind of start with you. So you have 20 years of experience as a financial advisor, but you also have kind of a personal connection to this topic. So I'd love to kind of learn a little bit more about your background, what kind of brought you into the world of finance, and then also what drew you to wanting to educate people about how

to navigate widowhood. Yeah, well, thank you, Jessica. Very good way to begin. So I actually have closer to 30 years of financial planning experience. I think in 2023, next year, it'll be 30 years that I've been in the profession. So in that period of time, the majority of that 30-year period was really aimed at working with the entrepreneurial market, the business owner, his family, people that worked within the company and were part of the family, and then those that were part of the family but didn't necessarily work in the company. So it was a very complicated situation for family businesses, especially in Canada, whether it be investment planning, tax, but also in terms of how to keep the family together. Often it is said that a happy family or a family that works together will have a successful

business. It doesn't work the other way around. Just because you may have a successful business, you don't necessarily have a successful family. And I think most people, when they do finally lie on their deathbed, they wish they had a successful family, a very loving family. So I worked with that group for years and years, and I enjoyed it tremendously. My life changed in January of 2020 when my wife actually passed away, sadly. It was not unexpected, but as most widows and widowers would probably say, that it doesn't matter even if you waited for it and you expected it

and you knew it was inevitable, it's still a shock. So my life changed both from a personal perspective and a professional perspective. So what I did after January of 2020, during COVID, which put everything a little bit on a slow path, but anyhow, I started researching from not just my own feelings, but what other widows and widowers were facing, both from a financial component or financial aspect, but also from an emotional aspect. And I was surprised that there was a tremendous amount of help needed for people, including myself. I'll give you a couple examples of how I, being the financial expert, kind of missed the boat on two or three issues that were things that I tell people all the time. So from that day onward, I still work with business owners,

but all my new clients at the moment, and I should mention I work with Scotia McLeod. We're in Midtown Toronto. I'm a financial advisor and a portfolio manager with them. So my new clients as of 2020, January of 2020, are now widows and widowers. And I have a lot in common because of my own personal experience. So I'll give you an example of how during that period of time, your brain may not be working properly. And it could be either before the death or after the death.

So we were married, Mary and I, for 33 years. And as I mentioned, I've been a financial advisor for many of that period. And I put our family house, our home, in Mary's name. And as you know, matrimonial homes are divided I did it in the event that if I became subject to a lawsuit, I didn't want the family home to be affected. And I think it's a common practice with business owners. Well, it turns out that I forgot I had done that. And Mary was about to pass. And I'm not kidding. I felt very, very badly. But I realized it about three or four

days before she passed away. And you know, the probate fees in Ontario, Toronto, Ontario, Canada is about 1.5%. And then you get access to the home or you get ownership to the home. Well, we unfortunately, we had to have a lawyer come to the hospital who redid the ownership of the home. I put it into joint ownership because I didn't have the heart to put it into my name. And then when she did pass away, I moved it to my name. But if I hadn't done that, and I have heard widows and widowers not do that. And it'll cost them 1.5% when the first spouse dies. And then when the second spouse dies, like when I die, there's another probate fee. So it's ridiculous. I don't know how I forgot to look at that. But looking back now, it's the last thing you're thinking about. but it is very important.

So that's where I've been, and I look forward to hopefully working with widows and widowers from a financial planning standpoint for hopefully many years to come. Absolutely. So since you kind of mentioned this was, you know, that could have been a potential huge, you know, financial, you know, burden that if you hadn't realized that in those days to make that change, that would have been, you know, a big impact on your finances. What are some other things that people should know? Like, it may be easier to plan these things, like maybe in a situation where you, you know, it's not such a sudden situation, but maybe not. You can plan for these things, like maybe in a situation where you, you know, it's not such a sudden situation,

but maybe not. You can plan for these things well in advance. So what are some things that people should look out for? Some of those may be documents that they may not realize, do you have your spouse on that, that people, you know, who are in a partnership should make sure they've got their kind of ducks in a row. Yeah. Good point, Jessica. I think you have to start with a will. As you know, most Canadians will die without a will. And it doesn't have to be that way. I know we feel we're going to live forever, but start with a will. If you don't have a will, even if you're not sick, or your spouse isn't sick, or your spouse isn't sick or your partner isn't sick, you need a will. Okay. Let's assume you need a will. And you do.

Some couples have very old wills that they created when they were first married or first child was born. And it may have to be revisited, especially if you still have children under the age of 18. So I think the will is probably the most important component. And then what I would look at then is I would look at your, if you're employed, look at your employer pension benefits. Like who is the beneficiary of your, any life insurance that you maybe may have already bought because after you get sick, I don't know if you can buy any. So make sure, again, to avoid probate fees, you want to pick an individual rather than have it go to the estate. You may also have critical illness,

which you may have already talked about in the past with your listeners, that is very, very helpful because if you do have critical illness insurance, which means that it'll pay if you have, if you become diagnosed with a particular illness such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, they will cut you a check for the amount of the insurance. It won't change your life. It won't make you better, but it might give you an opportunity to maybe go to the Mayo Clinic if there's any possibility of getting a better treatment plan,

although Mary had great treatments here in Toronto, in Ontario. I don't know if it's any better, but you do have the opportunity to do that. So your wills, your employer health benefits, if you have any private insurance like your own, make sure the beneficiaries are buying them. Because many people die and they have that stuff. And then while we're on the topic of finding things, make sure you document where your accounts are. Like if you have accounts at Scotia, is it a checking account? What's the account number?

If you have electronic assets or digital assets, which are becoming more and more popular, that is another bag of uncertainties there. You know, your Google account, your Gmail account, if you have one, your Twitter account, your LinkedIn account, all that stuff. Because even as an executor, you can't go into your husband's LinkedIn account or Facebook account. You need permission for that because you'd be impersonating him or her. And that's not allowed or not legal, but most people from what I've heard will do that. So there's a laundry list of things to do. Start with the wills, identify where everything is, make sure it's up to date, make sure people know where things are.

But that's just the financial component. Then you've got all your emotional component, talk to the children, talk to your friends and family. We can talk about that if you want. Let's talk about the emotional. This is a money show, but I think, I mean, money is also an emotional thing and death is a very emotional thing. I think that's where, I mean, I, you know, have seen death in my, you know, family with my, you know, grandparents and seeing, you know, my mom and her brothers deal with a lot of that. And it's very emotional and very difficult. And at the same time, you are forced to make a lot of financial decisions in that state of mind. So what are some things that if this were to happen to you, here are some great things that you can do to make your grieving journey, maybe the year or period of time, it may be more than a year, maybe less than a year, but let's say hypothetically roughly a year. And by the way, everybody goes through the journey at their own pace.

So this is by no way, no means a definitive answer to that question. But I think during the first year, at least for me, I was numb. I was in a fog. They call it fog brain. I call it what you want. I think I was still a fog, they call it fog brain. I call it what you want. I think I was still in shock. And if I had to redo it, and I didn't do anything big, but I read a lot of widows and widowers say or recommend,

don't do anything really big in the first year. For example, don't sell your house. You may eventually, but at the moment, you're just not ready to determine where you're going to move, whether you should even move, and where and how. So if you can avoid or delay big financial decisions until you start thinking a little bit more clearly. The other one is about dating. And I know we're talking about money, but especially for men, they, and I can only talk for men, I guess, but there is a tendency not to replace your wife, to replace your spouse. And that may not mean that you love the person that you're dating, but it just may mean that she is replacing what you were missing. And again, it may only be a while and then you find out that that's not the person that you really want to be with.

So I think any major decisions that you have to make financially or emotionally, I would see if you can postpone them for a year until you can actually think a little clearer. But then there are things that you have to do immediately. Probably the most important thing is your cash flows, your cash flow budgeting. Are you, can you survive financially now that one spouse who may be the breadwinner or partial breadwinner is no longer there? So we start with cash flows. Is there enough money from the savings or any pensions or any survivor benefits work,

is there enough money to maintain the standard of living? Do you know, Jessica, the average female, the average widow in Canada becomes a widow at the age of 57. Wow. Yeah. So you think a widow is someone who is in her 80s or 90s, and there of course are, but the average woman becomes a widow, or the average widow became a widow at the age of 57. So she may still have children at home. She may still have debts.

She may not have worked. She may have been a stay-at-home mom so cash flows are the most important component then and i think we have to do that immediately the other some of some of the big big changes you could wait the other thing you should look at almost immediately well maybe not immediately but within the first three to four months is your own mortality. If you were to die as a widow or a widower, and if you had children or dependents, you have to determine how they're going to survive financially. So you need your own will.

And maybe you need life insurance. And you need to evaluate how, if you still have a kid who's in university, like my youngest is still in second year, third year. So she still needs education funding and a little bit of cash flow here and there. But fortunately the high cost years are over for me. But if I was younger, if I was, say, 50 or 55, then I might still have more of those years. So if I died, then the children could be in a financial mess. So those are two areas that you want to look at very quickly. Widows and widowers are, in my opinion, they're disadvantaged. And I know we don't give them enough credit. I didn't know this, but so Mary worked and she was a stay-at-home mom, but she also had a sort of a side job that she did from day one practically. And I worked full

time. So I'm going to be eligible for pretty well full CPP. Mary was eligible for about, let's say, three quarters of her CPP max. In Canada, the maximum CPP that you can qualify for is the maximum that one person can receive. So let's say I could receive, today's maximum is about 15,000 a year. And let's say Mary would have qualified for 10. So when we're both alive, we'd get 10 from her and 15 for me, which would be 25. You would think that I get her survivor benefits. No, I don't get her survivor benefits if I'm already at the maximum CPP. If I'm already getting 15, I don't get anything for her. And that's a big amount of money lost.

That's $10,000. Yeah, plus inflation and until I'm maybe hopefully 90 or whatever. Don't forget the old age security. You lose OAS immediately once she died. I didn't qualify for it, but when I do qualify for it, I won't get her survivor benefits for OAS because there are none. And then all the pension splitting. So, you know, if you have a spouse or a partner, you can split Canada pension, you can split your RRSPs, your pensions from work.

Well, I can't do that. I don't have anyone to split it with. So I could have potentially clawback for my OAS, a higher tax bracket. I could go on, but I know we don't have a limited amount of time. Yeah, no, those are important considerations. I think the other thing to also be mindful of, and I know I was looking on your website, there's some articles,

some really great articles about some things for people to keep in mind is one thing that I think, you know, people do think about the wills, but they sometimes forget about making sure that their spouse is a beneficiary on some of their registered accounts. And that could also be a big, you know, financial setback if you didn't. I know for me, honestly, there's one form I still have to fill out for my husband on one of my accounts. And that could be, you know, a huge burden if it has to go through the estate instead of being passed on to you. Do you want to kind of speak to some of those things that people should make sure they tick that box, sign that document,

because it could be a big life changer. Yeah, that's a very common problem. So RRSPs can, you can pick a beneficiary, you can pick, usually you pick your spouse, because they can roll over to him or to her tax deferred. There are alternatives, you can have them roll over to a child who is under the age of 19 or a child who is disabled. Okay. But those are rare circumstances. The majority of times people would want the money to go to their spouse, but they could, if they don't tick their spouse off, like actually name him or her, and if it's blank, it goes to the estate. And the estate is driven by the will. So in your will, and you may have a will, as you said, Jessica.

So in the will, it says Jessica leaves everything to her spouse. Well, that's fine. Everything will go to him eventually. But before it goes to him or to her, you will have to pay probate fees. And the probate fees is 1.5%. And then at the same time, it then is included in your final tax return. So if you've got a big RRSP, well, that could be a very financially profitable year from a tax return point of view. So you're paying the taxes today, you're paying the probate fees, and then the net amount will

go to your spouse. All that money could be deferred. You will still have to pay the tax, you'll still have to pay the probate fees, one probate fee instead of two, but you can defer it until he or she passes away, which, you know, could be a long time. So make sure your registered accounts have beneficiaries. The TFSA has similar beneficiary designations where you could say, I'll allocate it to my spouse's TFSA, so it rolls into her TFSA, or it could go to her, but it could go to her outside of a TFSA. I would rather have it go to your spouse within his TFSA so that you could continue to grow that money tax-deferred, or tax-free, actually.

Tax-free, yeah. So that's a good question and a good point. Go through all the assets. Oh, life insurance as well. Some people buy life insurance and allocate the estate as a beneficiary. Same issue. Well, yeah, very well. You could have had a marriage that dissolved, then you got remarried. And I've heard people, oh, I forgot to update the spouse. Or I wasn't married, but I got life insurance a long time ago, and it still has the estate.

So it's one of those things where it's like, if you're doing some spring cleaning or whatever with your accounts, that is such an important thing, especially too, I feel like with work, maybe you started work when you're in your 20s, now you're in your 40s and you never updated that beneficiary on that form. Right. Totally correct. It's a very easy mistake or something you could forget, but it could end up costing a lot of money. I know we don't think we're going to die. We don't think we're going to become disabled.

But it does happen. And unfortunately, it happened to Mary. As you get older, you probably see some of your friends going through the same thing. And then disability, that's another huge, huge issue. So you kind of talked a little bit about the importance of cash flow. And that's kind of like your immediate situation. You've got bills to pay no matter what's going on in your life. But like you said, there could be people who they took time off work to raise the kids or they worked part time. It is I can imagine, like, especially that first year when you're really dealing with this new this completely new life. Difficult to figure out.

OK, well, I don't I have half as much income coming in. How can I afford things? I mean, you said not to make any big rash decisions like selling the house or moving or anything like that. But in your experience working with clients, what are some things that people can do to kind of make up for the lack of income? Is it just about, okay, now it's about cutting back and then looking for more work? Yeah. Yeah, there's no magic wand where you could create extra money. So I actually had a very similar case of that. He was a dentist, a very, very profitable dentist office or dentistry office. And they lived a pretty good life, accumulated quite a bit of debt. Most of it came from medical school and all the equipment that he had to buy. Unfortunately, he died young. They had three little children at the time.

She didn't work. She couldn't with three kids and he was working, you know, 20 hours a day. Their agreement was that she would take care of the housework or the homework. It turned out that we sat down and we looked at everything we possibly could. We said, OK, should we keep the house? Should we sell the house? We ran a bunch of scenarios and it turned out that we just couldn't keep the house, not in the condition. It was just too much of a monthly bill to pay. And so she scaled down. Then we looked at private school.

It was all connected. But we looked at the private school for the kids. They were beginning private school. Unfortunately, we had to recommend taking them out of private school. And then we had to recommend that she would go back and get a full-time job, hire help. So she did actually, they even had life insurance. I think they had close to a million dollars

of life insurance and it's still, he had a bit, but not enough. But it gave her an opportunity, that million dollars of life insurance allowed her to, it gave her time to think. And so immediately, as you know, within a month, you'll get the check from the life insurance company, and you could then pay some bills. You can pay the funeral if it hasn't been pre-arranged, you can buy groceries, you can pay the mortgage, you can pay education expenses, but eventually you have to start planning what to do with it in more of a long-term perspective. So I think the best thing to do there is to pre-plan.

You can't do it afterwards. You may have to make some very difficult choices. So as you probably have done with your spouse, you do a what if scenario. What if A dies today? How will B be financially affected? And then just turn the table around and do it for you and see if he needs financial help. So it's like, when's the best day to plant a tree? You know, 40 years ago. If not, today. Do it today. Well, I guess that's another kind of point that you mentioned is they had life insurance, so they did the right thing, but it wasn't enough.

And so that's another, I think, thing where you do need to revise, not just like who's the beneficiary on the form, but do you have enough? For example, I think a lot of people forget they get it. They said it and forget it. And they don't realize, oh, we just upgraded to a more expensive home. You need to also look at is the life insurance you have now going to be enough. So like I recently me and my husband bought a new home. It's much more expensive than the previous home that we had. So we had to get another life insurance policy. So like if I die or you die, we wouldn't be able to pay off the house with the money that we have. And I wouldn't want to force my spouse to sell the house right away so they can continue living. So that's, I guess, another thing to revisit is,

are you covered enough? Because you may not be. They seem to do well and they had a million dollar policy and it wasn't enough. And that's terrible. Yeah, a million dollars sounds like a lot of money. But when you factor in three kids, they're very, very expensive to raise and to educate and to put them in hockey or whatever. Yeah, you may not have enough. And you don't think about it. You don't think about it. But if you work with a financial advisor or if you're a do-it-yourself investor, you have to go through the will and the powers of attorney. We didn't talk about powers of attorney, but the same thing. Yeah. Well, one thing I just want to mention,

do you think this is then, because we've mentioned there's a few things that you need to check. Is this something that you should kind of look at once a year or every five years or what's like a good kind of routine? Cause I feel like most people are like, I don't have time to do this. It's like a lot of work, but is it just about setting aside like an hour once a year to make sure all the paperwork is all good? Oh, you know, we forgot about this big life change. We just had a kid. We should look at our life insurance or our will again. Yeah. I think if you have a life event, like you bought a new home or you've had a child or another child, or you're separating any big

life event, I think you should look at everything from A to Z. But normally if you've created a will today and nothing really big has happened, you haven't had any new kids, you haven't been separated, then I would think every five years would probably be enough to look at your wills and your powers of attorney. But your employee health benefits are renewed every year. Take a moment there. Don't let the default kick in and evaluate. Okay, I have life. Do I have enough life? Do I default kick in and evaluate. Okay, I have life. Do I have enough life? Do I have the right beneficiary? Okay, I have disability. Do I have enough disability? Okay, great. Oh, critical illness. Oh, I should add that. I've never added it before. What I find

that everybody knows what they're covered for from a dental point of view. Oh, I have, you know, like I have X number of dollars of dental care coverage but if i ask them well if you become disabled for the next 20 years how much coverage do you have and it's nothing i don't know i know i think most people don't take the time i mean very well i of course i would because i like this stuff but most people forget to check their their benefits and all that stuff like just like a personal example my mom was visiting um over the summer and we went to get massages i'm like hey are you covered she works for the school board like are you covered you have some benefits she's like oh i don't think so i'm like well let's just take a look and we looked on the line she's been working for the school board

for like 20 plus years and she's always had massage this is covered and she's never gotten a massage i'm like that is it might be leaving money on the table yeah this is like one She's never looked it up. And I think she actually has gotten massages in the past, but she's just paid cash. I'm like, but you could have gotten actually 80% covered. And that's just one little example of, you know, just to remind people that part of your compensation for your work is those benefits, whether that's life insurance or what have you. And it's, but it's important also, like you mentioned, are you covered enough? Because I think often we think, oh, I'm covered from work, but we actually don't know, well, how much are you covered? Like if your life insurance through work is only $200,000,

but you need like a million dollar policy, then that's clearly not enough. You're going to have to look at a private. And also I think another thing that people forget about is if you leave that employer, you're no longer covered. And you know, us millennials like to move around. So. Right. Yeah. And if you get sick during that period of time that you're moving around, you may not get coverage. Exactly. Yeah. So plan in advance. But like you mentioned, let's talk about powers of attorney. That's another, you know, people think about the wills, but there's a lot of components to having a full estate plan. What are some key things, including the power of attorney, that people should remember? Yeah, definitely. I think if you're a millennial or anybody younger than, say, 50, 55, you have a greater probability of

becoming disabled than actually dying. So although the will is important for a millennial or thereabouts age group, the power of attorney actually is more important because of the probabilities of becoming disabled. So in Canada, in Ontario, we have two, we have powers of attorney for property and for healthcare. For property would be your house. So for example, your home may be in joint ownership. Well, if you're incapacitated, your husband can't sell the house, can't put on a mortgage, can't do anything with it because he needs your signature or your approval. Well, if you're in a coma, you're not allowed to enter into a contract, obviously. And it doesn't have to be a coma. It could be even less severe. You could be suffering from some form of mental illness that

prevents you from thinking effectively in order to enter into a contract. So let's say you're not allowed to enter into a contract. Well, these assets that are either in your name or in joint ownership are kind of frozen because there isn't anybody that can actually go in and administer them. Now, your husband, your spouse, or a family member can go to the courts, post a bond, and blah, blah, blah, and eventually they will be appointed the executor of the, sorry, the power of attorney for property. But it's time consuming, it's expensive, and it's the last thing you want to do when your daughter or your wife is in such a condition.

So powers of attorney for property and for healthcare, that is another very important component. Mary had do not resuscitate. So, which means that if she is, well, bottom line, if she can't breathe, we're not going on a ventilator. And that was her decision. It wouldn't have helped. If it had helped, we definitely would have recommended it and we would have pushed it, but would not have helped. It would have kept her alive, who knows for how long, but she wouldn't have been there. So some people say, well, I don't want that type of medical care in the event I'm ever in that position. And they write it down and then they allocate an individual to be the power of attorney

for care. So usually for care, you allocate your husband or your wife, your spouse. For property, again, you can allocate your husband or your wife, or you can pick a trust company to do that for you. It depends on who you know and who you trust to do A or B or both. Yeah, no, that's super important. Yeah, and if you're a widower or widower, good luck. Who are you going to pick as powers of attorney? Yeah, and you're going to have to not just pick anyone. You're going to have to have good conversations. Because I know that's a big discussion I've been seeing online is a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to be your power of attorney because it's a lot of work.

It's a lot of work and a lot of risk. A lot of responsibility. And I guess the other kind of important person to name when you know, when it comes to estate planning is your executor. And that's another thing I think I've been seeing lots of conversations online. It's like, oh gosh, I want to be an executor. I've seen, you know, family members deal with that. It's like almost a full-time job sometimes. It's a lot, a lot of work. But I mean, typically you would name your spouse, I suppose, as your executor, or you could name someone else if you feel like I'm going to be too emotional. Yeah, I've seen nine out of 10 times you pick your spouse,

and then you pick the alternate would be children. So if you're a widow, you don't have a spouse, so you have to see whether or not your children can be that power of attorney and the executor of the will. And then would you name a trust company if you don't have kids or what would your, or just a trusted person, I guess, that you know? That would be your two options. You could pick a trust company. What I've done is I picked a trust company because I have three kids. I don't want them to do it.

I think A, they may not even be in the country because right now I've got two out of the three out of the country. And it's very, very difficult if they're out of the province to act as an executor in Ontario. So you could go to the bank that you deal with. If you deal with Scotia, you walk in, you get a referral to a trust division, the trust division. And Scotia Trust will be the executor. It'll kick in. Then you have to pay for it, but it kicks in when you pass away.

And they can be both the executor to the will and they can be the power of attorney for property. They will not be the power of attorney for healthcare. So that you will still need, and you could pick children for that. I think you could probably, the problem is with kids is if you have one, then you're okay. If you have two or more, I think.

They may disagree. Right. Yeah. They may disagree and two of them may gang up on one. If you have three or more. Or if you have two, they may be both very, very determined in their ways. And there's no budging or negotiating or compromising. So the last thing a mom or dad wants is to have their children argue about the estate after they're gone.

So consider a trust company, a trusted individual too. If you're going to go with a trusted individual, make sure they are younger than you. Because if they're the same age and you do die of old age, then they may not be ready to do that job or around. Then you have to go back and change your will. They are very important documents. And again, you don't have to change them every day or every year. But if anything big happens, like if you do have an executor who dies or becomes incapacitated or moves from Ontario, then you have to go and change that.

Well, you don't have to, but it's a lot more difficult if you're out of province. Yeah, yeah. No, those are very helpful things. I think it's one of those things where it's like, I'm so glad we had this chat because I think a lot of people don't think about these important elements, but when you deal with them, when they actually happen in your life, you're like, oh gosh,

I'm either really glad that this is all set up or, oh, I wish I'd taken the time to pre-plan some of this stuff. So before I let you go, is there any other kind of pieces of advice that you'd like to share for anyone who, you know, maybe is either they are a recent widow or someone that just wants to make sure that they're planning for the future? Yeah, I think we've covered a lot. of grieving. It may take you a month. It may take you five years. There's no right or wrong. So grieve. You must grieve. If you don't, it'll come back and potentially at a worse time and it'll be a buildup of grief. So give yourself the time to grieve.

Of course, get help. There are some very good sources, grief counselors, psychologists, your friends. But I find friends are not trained in order to help you, but they'll help. Most of them, yeah, they'll listen definitely, and you should talk to them. But the professionals will give you more help. So I think if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have these predetermined, oh, I'm going to do this in a month or two. Forget your time limits. Just go through it on your own, at your own pace.

Whatever time it takes, it could take a year, it on your own. I mean, at your own pace, whatever time it takes, it could take a year, it could take more. I've heard people go through their grief journey and it might take them five years. Is that unusual? No, it's up to the individual and it comes and goes. It goes and it'll go high for, it'll be very intense for maybe a month, and then it could come down a bit. But then when you think you've sort of, you've moved on a bit, it'll come right back. So widows and widowers should really take their time. And it's unfortunately a sad part of life.

But we have to learn how to do it. And in Canada or in the West, we ignore death. but we have to learn how to do it. And in Canada or in the West, we ignore death. Unfortunately, we don't give widows and widowers enough attention or the proper attention. We hear things such as, he or she's in a better place. I feel like saying, no, he isn't. No, she isn't. I need her here. What do you mean she's in a better place. I feel like saying, no, he isn't. No, she isn't. I need her here.

What do you mean she's in a better place? How do I get there? And we've heard all kinds of really stupid things from- I know. I think it's because yet no one knows how to talk about death in North America because it's not part of our culture, right? And so we're just trying to be like, how could we just move this conversation along, sweep it under the rug and move on? It's like, no, I mean, if you're going through it, you're really going through it, and it's difficult because no one will really understand unless they've also gone through something similar. Yeah, so maybe just like flip the coin,

if you're not a widower or widower, and you are talking to a widower or widower, don't sweep it under the rug. So face it with him or her. Talk to him or her about the person who died. That makes him feel so good that you're acknowledging his wife or her husband. And you don't even have to say anything too deep. Like you could say, well, geez, I really liked when Mary and I went to the bowling alley and we played 10 rounds or 10, whatever, 10 games of bowling.

And then we went out for dinner and then the guys met us. And just that alone acknowledges that, hey, other people liked her too. And I'm really happy about that. So acknowledge her. And it doesn't have to be anything really deep, but don't sweep it under the rug. Don't ignore the gorilla in the room. Bring it out. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's some great advice. And I really appreciate you taking the time to share some of your personal story and also your advice as an advisor. Really appreciate it. Where can people find more information about you? I know you have your own podcast, Widowhood and Money. Where can they find more information about that

and yourself? Yeah, good questions. The Widowhood and Money podcast will be airing in September. We are building a number of episodes that will be released shortly. So watch out for that. But the best way to find me is on my website, which is Richard Dree, and that's Richard D-R-I at, sorry,.ca. So Richard Dree.ca. Thank you. I had trouble with that one. Yeah, very simple. My name.ca. And that, you'll be able to locate me there and you'll find the blogs and the podcasts will be there as well amazing amazing well thanks again for joining me Richard it was a pleasure having you same here I really had a good time thank you and that was episode 343 with Richard

Dree you can find more information about him and he has honestly some really great articles on his website, richarddree.ca. So that's richard and then dri.ca. You can also find him on Twitter at drifinancial. So Dree Financial. And of course, you can also find him on Facebook and LinkedIn. You can find all the links to his social handles and his website on On my website, you can find them at the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 343. And don't forget to check out his podcast called Widowhood and Money to learn more about this topic. Now I've got some things to share with you as always. So don't go away. Just want to share a few words about this podcast season's sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Do you feel valued at your financial institution? Because Desjardins is on a mission

to enrich the lives of Canadians, help build stronger communities, and educate its members so they can confidently reach their financial goals. Not only do they offer one-of-a-kind customer care and offer a variety of financial services to fit your needs. As a cooperative, they put their members first. So if you're looking for an institution that's making an impact, look no further than Desjardins. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're making a difference, visit Desjardins.com. All right, first and foremost, because I don't know if I've mentioned this in the past few episodes, maybe I have, but I'm just going to remind you, I am giving away a ton of books. Whenever there's an author who is on the book, I give away a copy of their book.

And you can find information in the show notes, of course, but you can just go to JessicaMorales.com slash contest. That is a very easy link to remember to enter to win one of the many books that I'm giving away. And currently, and I am going to be adding some more books to this contest as the guests keep on coming on the show. But I'm giving away a copy of Becoming Superwoman by Nicole Lappin, The Bogle Effect by Eric Balchunas, A Scene Heard and Paid by Alan Henry, Untying the Knot by Kelly Lavallee. And of course, the most recent author I've had on the show is Dr. Zakiya Akureli. And I'm giving away a copy of her book, Dump Your Degree. And yeah, again, all that info to enter is at jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. But if you want some other reminders like in your email inbox, then you may want to subscribe to my email newsletter. You can just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash subscribe to find

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Jessica Morehouse within YouTube, and you'll be able to, to find me there. That's kind of all I've got to share with you at the moment. I'm sure there's more things I'm going to share in the near future, but I'm not ready to. So thank you so much for listening. A big shout out to my wonderful podcast editor, Matt Rideout, and I will see you back here next Wednesday for another episode of the More Money Podcast. Have a good rest of your week. This podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network find out more at women in media.network