More Money Podcast - 346 What Our Money Habits Say About Us - Emily Guy Birken, Author of End Financial Stress Now

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

What do our money habits say about us? Our relationship with money is just as nuanced and complicated as every other relationship in our life. That's why my guest today, personal finance freelance writer and author Emily Guy Birken is fascinated by the behaviours and habits we have with our money. Listen to today's episode to find out more about money psychology and her new book, Stacked: Your Super Serious Guide to Modern Money Management, written with Joe Saul-Sehy. Emily Guy Birken is a former educator, lifelong money nerd, and a Plutus Award-winning freelance writer and author who specializes in the scientific research behind irrational money behaviours. She has a knack for explaining complex financial topics by making them relatable and easily understandable to her readers. Her newest book, Stacked, is meant for non-money readers to help jumpstart their personal finance journey.  In this episode, Emily shares how she went from English teacher to financial writer and why she’s so interested in how our feelings surrounding money get in the way of progress. Emily also shares how the idea for her newest book came to be with co-writer Joe Saul-Sehy. Plus, Emily talks about why she believes perfection has no place in personal finance. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/346 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, Lulu, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 346 of the show. I'm just checking. Ooh, you know what is so satisfying, at least for me? The last episode of this season before I take the holidays off, it's going to be episode 350. That's a nice, ooh, nice number to end off of. It would honestly irritate me if I was to end the season off on 349. That just wouldn't sit well with me. So we've got a few more episodes to go, but not too many. But I'm going to make sure it is worth your while because I appreciate you listening. And I know there's a lot of you longtime listeners. I hear from people that have literally listened to the show ever since it first started seven

years ago. Or thank you if you're new listening and you are one of those crazy people, but love you, who started from like episode one and worked your way up. And I say thank you because ooh, those early episodes. I mean, they are, I was green. I did not know what I was doing. Probably asked a lot of dumb questions. But you know what? Here's the thing. When it comes to money, personal finance, financial literacy. In my books, there is no such thing as a dumb question. It just means you just don't have the answer yet. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's about learning what you don't know. So you can

be more confident and advocate for yourself if you're you're working with a financial professional or you feel confident enough to do whatever you need to do on your own terms. And well, this is really kind of the focus of this episode. I've got Emily Guy-Virkin on this show, who has been, you know, a financial literacy advocate and educator for many, many years. I've been aware of her for gosh, probably as long as I've been blogging, which is over a decade now. And in case you don't know, but honestly, you may have come across an article she's written or a book that she's written. She is a former educator, a self-professed lifelong money nerd.

She's also a Plutus Award winning freelance writer who specializes in the scientific research behind irrational money behaviors. And her background in education really allows her to make complex financial topics relatable and easily understood by, you know, just everyday people like you and me. And she's also had her work featured in the Huffington Post, Business Insider, Kiplinger's MSN Money, and the Washington Post Online. And she is an author of several books including the five years before you retire and financial stress now and the brand new book stacked your super serious guide to modern money management which was written with joe salce which you may be familiar if you listen to other personal finance podcasts he runs the show stacking benjamins so i know you're gonna love this episode but before I get to that interview with Emily, here's just a few words I want to share about this season's podcast sponsor.

This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Does your financial institution share your values? Because Desjardins is about more than just money. They are on a mission to enrich people's lives and improve the economic and social well-being of Canadians everywhere. Desjardins' main goal as a cooperative is to support its members and make a positive impact on their communities by providing exceptional customer care, offering a variety of financial services, and above all, listening to its members. They've also been at the forefront of sustainable investing as one of the first financial institutions to offer responsible investment portfolios. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're a cooperative making a difference, visit Desjardins.com. Welcome to the podcast,

Emily. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. I know. Yeah, I feel like I've seen your name and you know things that you've written for years and years and years so it's I feel like about time that I've had you on this show so we can chat about things and gosh I didn't actually realize how many books that you've written over the years I counted five that's correct that's right oh wow goodness a lot. Well, before we kind of dive in, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself. I know you've actually had a very interesting career path. You at some point were a tattoo artist. How did you eventually and you also worked as a teacher. How did you eventually end up where you are, you as a personal finance writer and author so just just to be clear I was a temporary tattoo artist oh you know because it's like I wrote down temporary but I thought it meant like oh the play you know you're temporarily as shortly as tattoo artist oh no no no I was a temporary tattoo artist at a um six flags um and it was that is the funniest item on my on my resume oh Oh, that's a good one.

I love that. I love that you keep that on your resume. You're like, yeah, people need to know I've got this skill. So yes, and I've had a very weird career. By training, I am an English teacher. I taught high school English for four years. And I like to say that I tripped and fell backwards into writing about money. It was not my intention. What happened was my husband and I moved after my fourth year of teaching when we were expecting our eldest child, who was due at the beginning of the next school year. So I went into that school year expecting to take a year off, knowing that, you know, I wasn't gonna be able to find a job that was gonna let me immediately go on maternity leave. So when we moved, we also had trouble selling our original house. So we went from two incomes to one,

to one, two people in the family to three, and one mortgage to two. So things are a little tight. So I decided, all right, well, what can I do from home? I've always been a writer. That's always something I've done. Let me see if I can find some freelance writing gigs just to keep a little bit of money coming in. And I was anticipating that I'd write about things that I knew about, like education, maybe a little bit about parenting, and then like the normal stuff like travel, that sort of thing. Well, one of the first gigs that I landed was for a financial website. And I was like, oh, I think I could do this. Well, my dad was a financial planner, so it's not completely out of left field. And though I didn't think of myself this way, I've always been kind of a money nerd.

So it turned out to fit really well. And my editor loved my work. And I think one of the first articles that I wrote for him went kind of mini viral, I mean, viral in the financial realm. So like tens of people saw it. But still, it did well. So he passed my name along to his friends and then invited me to the first FinCon, which was in 2011. So I went to that and things just kind of kept growing and growing and growing. So it was completely accidental and unintentional, but I found myself becoming a personal finance expert and writer. And I found that it was a great fit for me and a great fit for my family. Because since we had moved, and we were already living in the Midwest, and we're both from the East Coast, originally,

we didn't have any local family. So it allowed me to be the primary care person for my kids and, you know, be the person who could, you know, last minute pick someone up who's sick or, you know, any of those things, which would not have been possible if I'd gone back to the classroom. That's amazing. I mean, do you find because you do have this background as a teacher that helps in terms of, you know, there's a lot of, you know, freelance writers out there. And, but clearly, you are, you know, kind of one of the, the, you know, top ones, do you find that your background as a teacher has influenced how you explain things, especially with like, jargon and terminology and concepts with personal finance?

Absolutely. Yeah, I, I, I credit teaching with what helped me get started so quickly, because I was used to finding ways to make kind of esoteric things relatable to my students. So, you know, if I'm teaching a Midsummer Night's Dream to 15 year olds, they're not necessarily going to be interested. So finding ways to make it something they're interested in and get them invested in it is something that I kind of recreate with like, look, you know, talking about asset allocation in your 401k is not most people's idea of a good time, but I can find a way to make it interesting and relatable and something that you can feel actionable about. So it was really great preparation for becoming the kind of writer that I'm that I am. And I'm really glad that I spent

spent time with surly teenagers. I actually I loved teaching. I loved my kids. But, you know, one of the things that I kind of liked about teenagers is the fact that they wear their hearts on their sleeve. If they don't like something, they let you know. gears and stuff like that. I know I've noticed with a lot of your writing and the tone and what you like to focus on is you talk a lot about not just like the practicalities and how to's because there's, I mean, there's lots of articles about that. I love that you focus a lot on behavior and psychology. And I feel like that's something that when I first started, you know, kind of probably when you first started doing personal finance writing, that's kind of what I started kind of getting interested in it myself. And I found prior a lot of the when you first started doing personal finance writing, that's kind of what I started kind of getting interested in it myself. And I found prior a lot of the information you'd find online really was just like how to. And it was very dry, very boring, not relatable.

And I think it's so important to incorporate this psychological aspect of it. Do you want to kind of speak to why that's so important for you to really touch on and make sure people are aware of the other side of money? Absolutely. We have this sense that money is this simple thing. You know, it's in the plus column or the minus column. If you can do addition and subtraction and simple multiplication, you can do money. But the thing is, like, you can just look at your own life to recognize that's not the case. So, uh, and that was kind of, um, what brought me into my interest in money outside of, you know, even just growing up in, in the financial industry with my dad. Uh, I was always very interested in when I made a weird financial decision, I'd be like, why did I do that? You know, and, and wanting to spend time

thinking about it. I can remember, um, there was a shirt at, I was back, back in the day when you went to the mall, there was a shirt that I was, I was thinking about buying and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I want to spend the money on it, but they were having some sort of buy one, get one. So if I bought one, I got a second shirt for 50% off. And I was just like, oh, well, indefinitely. So I remember like two days later going like, wait a minute, I wasn't sure I wanted one shirt. And so I spent more and got two shirts. So, um, and so, uh, I think I recently described my superpower is navel gazing, which is like, because I spend time thinking about

these sorts of things. And that's, that's one of the things that has always interested me about money and decision-making. And, you know, when I start thinking about my own decision-making process and things like that, and I think a lot of us don't necessarily spend our time thinking about that. You know, we were we're kind of in reaction mode in a lot of ways. And I I think about things like that when it comes to money, because I'm a money nerd, but I don't necessarily when it comes to other parts of my life. And so I think it's really important for all of us to, you know, take a step back and think about what are the forces that are helping us or hindering us in our

decision-making processes. And if we look at money as very simple, just like you add and subtract your good, we are overlooking these larger forces that, you know, some of them are just, you know, human nature. Some of them are marketers have our number. I mean, that that that's that store knew very well that if I was waffling, I was going to buy two shirts. So kind of recognizing what those greater forces are, I think, can be a lot more helpful than like trying to tell people like, oh, on the margins, you know, like stop buying lattes don't buy avocado toast you know that that that's not helpful whereas like having a different format for looking at your decisions can be much broader and help you more globally yeah well i think also it always uh makes me think of when you see someone online like a financial influencer or you you know, because the space has definitely exploded online over the past couple of years. And a lot of the messaging I see from

people is, I was able to achieve this radical thing, pay off a lot of debt or earn a lot of money or build wealth in a very short amount of time. You can too, and I can teach you. And if it was, and I tell people all the time, like, if it was that simple, we'd all be doing it and be done right now. But there's the other, it's not just the math. It's not just do A, B, and C, and then you'll get to D. There is so many other elements beneath the surface that aren't usually addressed. And that's why, you know, you'll be like, I've read all these books, or I've tried all these things, and I'm still not, you know, debt free, or I still haven't, you know, quit my job at 35, or whatever the case is. And I think that's the that's what I like to, you know, of course, talk about on the show, love to give practical, you know, you know, advice and tips. But there, you know, there's at the end of the day, it's like, we're not all starting at the same place. And we all have our kind of baggage that we're bringing into things. I know, I think it's amazing that you have

five books, but I love that you have one specifically focused on financial stress. And that's another kind of thing that isn't talked about enough because it's, you know, it's like we all experience it. And it's hard to kind of articulate or even to explain or share with people. Do you want to kind of share why it was so important for you to write a book and financial stress now immediate steps you can take to improve your financial outlook? Because again, that's something that I feel like we all experience, but we don't really talk about so much. But you know, it could be a huge factor in why you aren't able to achieve some of your, your big goals. Absolutely. We have this narrative in our, in our society that

financial stress is the result of not having enough money. Now, I'm not going to say that that's not true. You know, there are a lot of people who are stressed because they don't have enough money and, you know, having more money would help ease some of that stress. But the thing is, people who earn lots of money also experience financial stress. People who receive a huge windfall experience financial stress. And what it comes down to is that a lot of the money stress that we carry is not actually about the money. The thing that is hard to wrap our heads around when it comes to money is the fact that it doesn't really exist. It is this delusion that we all share. We have all collectively agreed that we are going to say that these little green pieces of paper are worth something. And so because it does not have an inherent value or meaning, we put our own values, our own morals, our own neuroses, our own financial trauma on the money.

And so when we are experiencing financial stress, often what we're really experiencing is that traumatic stress from finances in the past, that moral stress from like, because we assign a moral value to money or not having money. And so what I want to help people do is figure out ways to kind of let go of some of these beliefs that they carry about money that aren't necessarily true. So they can, for one thing, that'll help relieve some of the stress. And it also helps you make better financial decisions because you can do it free from that kind of mental limiting belief that you might have about money. So, and that's something that I don't think that we talk about enough because for one thing, until very, very recently talking about money was just, you know, taboo pretty much everywhere. Yeah. And you know, and it's still very much taboo for a lot of

people. And then there's also the fact that when you're talking about stress, you always are going to have someone come in like, well, you need to get a better paying job. That's the problem, you know, who comes in with that. Or on the other side of it, for instance, I have known people who have come into money because of a death in the family. And they feel very guilty about having that money. And to have someone say, well, I wish I had your problem. Um, you know, like, so just crazy. You're like, well, I lost somebody in my life. So, you know, yes, I feel very conflicted about this money, you know, like, no, you don't wish I had my problems. So, um, recognizing that this stress is real, but it is also unnecessary in a lot of ways.

And finding ways to help yourself remember when stress is unnecessary and also help yourself work around whatever kinds of limiting beliefs you may have or, you know, just work around whatever it is that causes you stress when it comes to money rather than, you know, just work around whatever it is that causes you stress when it comes to money. Rather than, you know, say like, oh, well, just it's real simple, just, you know, good asset allocation, you know, spend less than you earn, and you'll be fine. That's not, that's so simplistic. And it's no better than like, I wish I had your problems, or you should just get a better paying job. Exactly. Yeah. No, I completely agree. And I feel like I, when I was, you know, really starting to figure out how to manage my own money, I would be confronted with lots of those, you know,

people saying, oh, we'll just do this. And without any context or any information about me personally. And so that's why I struggled a lot, especially when it came to the investing side of things. Like as a woman, I was never, I was never, I didn't even know anything about investing because I feel like I was never invited to any of those conversations. And when I would ask a question that I would get a very basic answer, be like, oh, you should know this. Or this is the simple, yeah, asset allocation, just do this or just buy the CTF. And you're like, what are you talking about? Like, that is not the answer to my actual question. And yeah, I think that that causes a lot of people financial stress. And then I would assume to like the kind of consequence of that. And I was reading there was a really helpful infographic on your website, which I thought was so awesome that, you know, it kind of showed some of the consequences of not dealing with financial stress. And I've definitely seen that in people I know, I've experienced them too. Do you want to kind of share, you know, what will happen if you just let it fester? So generally anything that you're letting fester, you know, you don't deal with, um, a little problems become big problems. Um, so, you know, something that's, uh, um, so let's, I mean,

just talking about investing, um, if you feel intimidated and don't go into investing, this is one of those things where it's important, but not urgent kind of problem, you lose out on important time in the market, which is the best way to grow your money. Rather than timing the market, making sure you invest early and often is going to do a lot more for you and taking advantage of compound interest than finding the perfect time and the perfect investment. So because neither of those exist. So there's there's that aspect of it. Then there's the aspect of like, oh, well, I'll deal with this later. I'll deal with this later when it comes to things like paying off debt or, you know, dealing with any kind of financial problem. We've all had it happen where like you put something off and something that would have been an easy, relatively easy fix becomes a giant problem that just swallows up your time or your money or your energy. all of us to recognize when we're feeling avoidant about our financial problems and kind of like

put aside the time or the energy we need to look into it. Because oftentimes it's not as bad as we're afraid it's going to be. In the same way, like you put off something like going to the doctor or, you know, cleaning that horrible pot in the kitchen, you know, I mean, anything big, little and you're like, oh, it's going to take forever. And then you finally take care of it. And, you know, you go to the doctor and everything's pretty much fine. They tell you you might need to worry a little bit about your cholesterol, but you know what? You're pretty much healthy. And you scrub the pot and it only takes you six minutes. And it really wasn't worth the sturm und drang of waiting for three weeks to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's a helpful reminder for so many people. It's like, and it's honestly the pot thing. Like that's me every time I make something in my crock pot, just let it soak for two days or something and just do it.

But yeah, it's like the worst thing you can do is to just do nothing about the thing that you know you need to address. It's not going to get better by just avoiding it. Right. And you don't actually avoid stress by avoiding it either because it's always lurking. It's always there. Oh, yeah. It's in there. So so it's not as if you're actually giving yourself a rest or a break from that stress by not doing it. You are just keeping the stress at a low level rather than it getting acute. Absolutely. And I guess for, okay, well, how do we actually address this financial stress? What can we actually do? I mean, I feel like maybe some of that led to you co-writing your kind of latest book,

Stacked, your super serious guide to modern money management, where you kind of, I mean, there's a lot of finance books out there, but I think the reason that yours stands out is it does have more of a kind of welcoming, humorous kind of way of explaining things. Because yeah, there's a lot of dry books out there that just won't connect with people, right? And I think, you know, the reason people connect with you is your writing style. And same with your co-author, Joe Salsa, with his, you know, popular podcast is you've got some, you just connect with people on a kind of a real, you know, playing field. And so do you want to kind of share a little bit about, you know, what's that book about and why

you wanted to take a different approach to make sure you weren't just another dry personal finance book on the shelf? So the book actually was Joe's idea. And he approached me to ask if I would co-write it with him. And I was, you know, the idea of working with Joe was fantastic. You know, he and I have been friends for a long time. But the other aspect of it that I was really drawn to has its roots in when I wrote And Financial Stress Now. Because that was something I had been, a book I'd been thinking about for eight or ten years by the time I wrote it. And I very much wanted it to be a reassuring book for people who don't read money books. After it came out, a friend of mine from college

said to me that she was excited for me. She bought the book, but she was afraid to read it. And I was like, oh my goodness, why? And she said, well, I'm afraid you're going to tell me I'm doing everything wrong in the book. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, that's not at all what I'm doing. And it made me realize that no matter how reassuring my tone is or how welcoming I am, there's still going to be people who just don't pick up money books. So with the idea for Stacked, Your Super Serious Guide to Modern Money Management, and that's obviously kind of a joke title. Joe and I set out to write a book that non-money book readers would want to read. So it is, we wanted it to have a playful tone. We wanted to be reassuring and open about our mistakes

and we wanted it to be funny. And so with the, you know, bringing on the idea that if we wanna help people improve their finances, we need to make it as easy as possible for people to get in on wherever they are. The people who say, I'm afraid to read this because I'm afraid it's gonna tell me I'm doing everything wrong.

We want them to like know from like looking at the cover, this book is for you. Don't worry, no one's gonna yell at you. Yeah, exactly. It's a book. They won't know you're reading it. No one's tracking it you know well and there has been so much um in the financial media sphere there is a subset of financial media

that is about shaming people yes um and shaming people as entertainment like oh look at you know this this person over here doing this thing can you you believe that? And for one thing, that's, I entirely reject that idea that there's anyone out there who has not made mistakes with money. You know, Warren Buffett has made mistakes. Susie Orman has made mistakes. Everyone has made mistakes with money at some point. And neither Joe nor I wanted to be like, you know, the guru sitting at the top of the mountain saying like, follow me and you, everything will be fine. We want to say like, you can make mistakes and recover and do great. And so that's why Joe and I were both very open about financial mistakes that we had

made, um, in the book. And we wanted to make sure that it was clear to our readers that, uh, we are coming at this from having been in the place where our readers might be, from having made mistakes that our readers might have made or worse mistakes than our readers might have made. So they can see that it doesn't have to be perfection from day one. Yeah. Well, and perfection just doesn't exist, you know, especially when you're learning something new. And I feel like that's something that we forget about because we're taught in school and you kind of know this as a teacher, you get rewarded if you don't make no matter what it is. And for me, that was a hard thing for me to actually kind of embrace is it's okay to fail. It's okay to make mistakes because you will learn something or have an experience that will be helpful in the future. But I'm curious, since you mentioned you kind of share some of your mistakes in the book, is there anything

that you can kind of share with the listeners right now that might be helpful? Sure. So my the mistake that I share is one that was not a did not have a huge financial consequence, but it had a very large life consequence. And that is when I was 22, I I got a tattoo like this is a real tattoo not a temporary tattoo um and it was because um I I broke up with some jabroni who was not worth not worth my time and I I get I cried and just a couple weeks later my my grandma Ruthie with whom I was very close passed away and I was very upset at myself for having wasted tears on this jabroni yeah when I should save them for things that are important like like missing my grandmother so I decided you know what I want to I want to make sure that I remember this I want to remember this moment remember how important my grandma was to me remember that I should save my tears

for important things so I'm gonna get a teardrop tattoo on my shoulder. Now, mind you, my grandmother would have been horrified. She's like, please don't get a tattoo in my honor. Horrified. Yeah. So and I, I, it cost about $150. I was in my early 20s. I had to take it out of my grocery budget. And that was part of what felt like a, an honor for me, for my grandmother is like, you know, in one of the things that I think of is like, you honor the people you love by being willing to sacrifice. And so that was one of the things like, okay, so, you know, I'm going to be eating ramen and tuna fish for, for a month. Um, because, because I'm doing this and that, that, that shows how much I love my grandmother. So I got this, this, uh, tattoo and it was within 10 to 15 minutes of walking out of the tattoo parlor that I went, oh my God, just got permanent body modification. What am I thinking?

And then it gets worse because it was about six months or a year later, I found out that in gangland, a teardrop tattoo represents someone you've killed. Oh, no! My tattoo seems to represent that i killed my grandmother oh my gosh i actually didn't know that and that's you think that like the tattoo artist would have been like hey you know because it's like you're a 22 year old person's like did you like or maybe they didn't want to bring it up because you're like well i don't want to

bring up maybe they were part of a gang and she did kill somebody uh and and i think that it's um it's it's more specifically uh people who get them on their face whereas because my shoulder okay so um i actually i felt a great deal of shame about this that you know i had i had done this for for many many years and it took me well into my 30s before I was able to look at this story and go, this is objectively funny. You know, you slice it. This is funny. And, you know, I made this bad decision. I mean, I think I think I can say clearly this is a bad decision for very good reasons.

You know, I was I was I was motivated by grief. I was motivated by love for my grandmother. I wanted to do something, um, kind of dramatic to, to show how I was feeling. Um, and while the $150 did blow a hole in my, my early 20 something budget, it was not something that had long lasting consequences financially, but one could argue it has bigger consequences because unless I decide to get it removed, I will have that tattoo until I'm a wrinkly old lady. Whereas Joe tells some stories about his financial mistakes. He got a credit card when he was first in college and without thinking about having to pay it off, he ran up a bill and then it went into collections and it was on his credit for a long, long time. And you might say like, oh, well, that's a worse financial decision because it had longer consequences.

But it's gone now. There's no trace of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You still have that. I still have my tattoo. Well, I guess like one of the, when you were just telling that story about the tattoo, I feel like that is a great kind of metaphor or lesson in that you should never make a permanent decision off of temporary emotions. So that could be something. Yes. The psychologists actually say they have the acronym HALT, don't make long-term decisions when

you're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. And so it's very similar to that. And it's really helped me better understand my own impulsivity. Because I don't think of myself as an impulsive person. But there's some impulsivity there if I because I could have thought about it for a year before I pulled the trigger. But no, I was like, I need to do it and I need to do it now. I feel like I've got the opposite where it's like I've been thinking of getting a tattoo for like a decade and I'm like, I just don't know what I want. So I still don't have a tattoo. So that's, that's another problem. It's like, you could be impossible or you could just be, what is it? The analysis paralysis where you just never make a decision. Yeah. That's a satisficer or maximizer. So if you're a satisficer

is the person who like, as soon as you find something that meets all your bare minimum requirements, you go, all right, great. Let's do it do it let's let's go with that maximizer is like you have this assumption that there is a platonic ideal of whatever it is you're looking for out there and so you will not rest until you find it yeah that's me that's like and also my husband which isn't really helpful because then it's like well we've been thinking about making this decision for a while or especially when we're trying to find like, you know, an Airbnb to book. You're like, well, there's so many. We want to find the best one. We're like, we just need a big one.

This isn't helpful. Yeah. I think that's also a huge problem I've been seeing a lot in just the financial world is it's been there's so it's so much easier to get started there's so many more apps and and you know ways to start investing but because there's more options there's kind of too many options so people also you know on the other side of it now they don't even know where to start and then they just do not do anything and they just are kind of stuck a little bit um you know but before let's kind of uh before we wrap things, because I know there's probably so many amazing gems in your book stacked, part of the title says modern money management. It kind of made me think,

were there things that you're like, we need to debunk this because this just isn't relevant anymore, or this is just bad financial advice that keeps on floating around? What was it that you wanted to make sure? We're to talk about, you know, modern money? Is there anything that you're like this stuff, you know, that's been floating around for a while? We need to get rid of that. Get it out of your brain. It doesn't work anymore. The main thing that we wanted to kind of debunk and focus on is when it comes to money, the advice is not really going to change. You know, it really is, you know, spend less than you earn, put money aside for retirement. You know, these things are forever advice. The problem is that there are new and exciting ways to spend money without leaving your bedroom.

That's true. It used to be that, you know, if you didn't leave the house, you couldn't really spend money. And so there are a lot of like kind of old fashioned rules about like only carry cash because then you can't spend more than you have. And that doesn't work in an increasingly cashless society. There were rules, there were rules about, uh, you know, freeze your credit card in a block of ice. Um, and you know, when Amazon and Zappos and all of them, uh, have your, your, uh, credit card information very helpful. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Yeah. So, um, and so that's where we wanted to kind of get into like modern problems require modern solutions.

And, you know, a lot of the things have not changed, but the hacks have to change because the tactics that the marketers and the people who want to separate you from your money use, um, are constantly evolving and changing and getting better. And so we need to find new ways of, you know, kind of tricking ourselves into not spending money. Um, and so, and that's, that's the sort of thing that, uh, it often comes down to like, well, just have self-discipline. And that's a lot to ask that particularly in the past few years. I mean, I can recall during the lockdown, you know, the only exciting part of the day was when the deliveries came like, um, the, the world as it is, um, and our own impulses is a big part of what the modern money management. And so, you know, there's some relatively simple stuff like don't let your, um, uh, you know, don't use Apple wallet.

Don't let your, your, um, uh, credit card information be saved on your favorite retail sites. There's other things like, you know, whenever you are about to make a purchase, stop and look for a coupon code. Whether or not you find one, that gives you enough distance between the moment of like, oh, I want this. And when you actually click buy that you can be like, do I really want or need this? And just the exercise of trying to find the coupon code and going like, do I really want this even if I can't find a coupon code? You know what? No, I'm really mad I can't find a coupon code. So no, I don't really want this. I don't need to spend the money. So those kinds of things, just giving yourself a pause in between wanting something and actually purchasing it, which was much more natural when we actually had to go to a store to buy things. I know it's so easy. I feel like especially, yeah, you know, when you mentioned the lockdown, like the amount of people that just spent money because you needed something to do and you needed some kind of excitement. You needed something new in your life. And I think because of that, even though we're no longer in because everyone was spending so much money in such a, like, you know, in such a big mass. And it's hard for us to now we're in a space where like, we all need to reel back so we can get inflation back down, guys. And it's hard to, to make that switch. But ultimately, you know, eventually, you have to find out those those tools that you can kind of utilize to, to Yeah. And for me to, like I've been, you know, I started my first personal finance blog 11 years ago and so much has changed. Lots of the tools that I used back

then don't work now. And so that's the other thing to always keep in mind is it's going to be an evolution, you know, like that's the good and annoying thing with personal finance. It's, there's no such thing as a set and forget it. I know all there is, I can stop can stop it's like there's always going to be something you're like oh actually this doesn't work now I need to find a different solution for this problem because this isn't cutting it really so that's fun uh yeah that's and that's something that I think can be tough um and one of the when And when you see kind of established personal finance media, who are like, well, we'll just do this. And, well, that might have worked in 2005, but that's not how it works anymore 17 years later.

And so you see a lot of kind of like calcified views of how money works and what to expect and all of that. And it's like, no, we need to kind of have a fluid view of how these things go so that we can change and be flexible when, you know, expectations changed, marketing tactics change, you know, the world changes, like, you know, you go have a global pandemic, and these giant things that you just don't expect. And so that's something that I think is really hard for people to accept about finance, because we think of it as this immutable, unchanging thing, when it's more like language, which is constantly evolving and changing.

And the way we deal with it and react to it is constantly changing and evolving. Oh, that's the perfect way to explain that. Because, yeah, I mean, there's so many new I mean, maybe this is just because I recognize it now because I'm not a Gen Z. But I'm like the new words that keep on popping up that I'm like, oh, OK, we got to say that this cool isn't cool anymore. There's a new word for cool. It's the same thing with finance. There's always going to be new ways. Yeah, it's a different language and it's going to evolve over time. So you just kind of have to always kind of keep taps on it. Well, I feel like, you know, there's obviously going to be so many more, you know, tips and helpful pieces of advice in your book stack.

So I recommend people getting that. And of course, and financial stress now. I think those are a great pair because one is really about how people are feeling and then the other really about what can you do. So, you know, where can people, you know, find copies of your books? And also, if they want to find you online, where can they find you? So you can find copies of all five of my books pretty much anywhere books are sold. You know, the big names, Amazon and all of that. But I also like to recommend bookshop.org, which is a way to purchase books online that

benefits your local independent booksellers. Then if you want to find me online, you can go to my website, emilyguyberkin.com. I have a blog and newsletter and would love to see you there. And then I have a sort of new project. It's called youronegoodthing.com. Since 2018, I've been posting one good thing on social media every night. And earlier this year, I decided to start collating them basically on its own site. So's a lot of negativity and judgment, personal finance, there needs to be more positivity and, you know, getting into that practice. Actually, that's, I feel like that's something me and my husband used for a long time part of our bedtime routine was they would call it call it our gratefuls and so we say what are we grateful for tonight and uh they they would be often hilarious when they were little like uh my one son was grateful for whales and his back okay another one was grateful for fire trucks i I'm like, yes, indeed. They are awesome. Yes, they are great. That's amazing. Oh, that's so sweet. Well, that's a great note to kind of end off on. Thank you so much, Emily, for coming on the show and sharing all of your

such valuable kind of insight and advice. I really appreciate it and hope people check out your books. Thank you so much. I really had fun. And that was episode 346 with Emily Guy-Burken. Make sure to check her out at her website, emilyguyburken.com. And you can find her on Twitter and Instagram at Emily Guy-Burken. Very easy to find her. Of course, another easy way to find more information about her and some of the links to her books, her website, her socials, is just to check out the show notes for this episode on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash 346. And if you want to check out the show notes for any episode you've ever listened to, you can either go to just jessicamorehouse.com

slash podcast or jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever the number of that episode is. And you can, you know, check out, you know, years past if you want go crazy, look at the archive, check it out. I've got of course, some things to share with you. So do not go away, including me giving away a copy of one of Emily's books, one of her many books. So stick around. I just want to share a few words about this season's podcast sponsor. This episode of the More Money Podcast is supported by Desjardins. Do you feel valued at your financial institution? Because Desjardins is on a mission to enrich the lives of Canadians, help build stronger communities, and educate its members

so they can confidently reach their financial goals. Not only do they offer one-of-a-kind customer care and offer a variety of financial services to fit your needs? As a cooperative, they put their members first. So if you're looking for an institution that's making an impact, look no further than Desjardins. To learn more about Desjardins and how they're making a difference, visit Desjardins.com. All right, first and foremost, let's get to some of the exciting things, which is a reminder that I'm doing a huge book giveaway. And really, the time is running out for you to enter to win one of these books because I like to close it pretty much, maybe I give it like a week or so after the season ends. And for your reference point, this season, season, what are we, 15 of the show,

it is going to wrap on our last episode on, well, I don't know if I've decided if I'm going to do a solo episode. Sometimes I like to do a solo episode to end off the year. We will see. But so far right now, I do like the idea of ending on 350. You know what? I don't, yeah, I'm going to end it on 350, which is December 21st. And then maybe I'll do a solo episode to kind of start next season, season 16. So anyways, with that said, don't take your time. Make sure you go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash contest and it'll direct you to a page where it has all the books that I'm giving away. You can enter to win all of them. If you're lucky, you will only win one of them. But there's

you've got some good chances. A lot of people, I think they think about entering and they don't. Your chances are good. And also, fun fact, I buy these books so I can support these authors and I mail them directly to you from me to you with a cute little note in there. Nice and personalized, like a nice little Christmas present or holiday present, whatever you celebrate. A nice little present for me. How exciting. So go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest to enter. And I'm going to be giving away because there's lots of books. I decided I'm going to give away her new

book, Stacked, Your Super Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. And yeah, so make sure to check that out. All right. What else do I want to share? Well, number one, so I have talked about this a little bit in the past, but it's kind of exciting. I don't think it's a secret. I'm going to share it on the podcast. So I was approached, gosh, in the spring to apply to this kind of YouTube accelerator program to kind of jumpstart my YouTube, you know, do better at YouTube, basically, something that I like doing, and I just haven't really figured out the secret sauce to make it, you know, just as big as the podcast, really. And anyways, then I was approached this fall, because they're running another one. And so I'm

like in this program to learn how to do YouTube better, which is just to say, I'm going to be making a lot more YouTube videos, I'm gonna make better YouTube videos, because I'm learning what I can do better. I'm making some fresh, new, fun YouTube thumbnails, putting some Instagram, no, what's it called? YouTube shorts. You know, there's too many things. It's the TikToks, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts. They're all kind of the same thing, but different names. So make sure to subscribe and check my YouTube channel out because I will be, you know, putting out a lot more videos moving forward because I want it to be as consistent as this podcast because it is a different medium. I do talk about different things. I'm not interviewing guests for like 30, 40 minutes

is usually like a 10 to 15 minute video on a specific topic. Very educational. I like it. So check it out. You can find me at JessicaMorehouse.com slash YouTube or, um, I'm not sure how it works, but they gave me like a handle. So I'm at Jessica Morehouse. I don't know if you just go to YouTube, Google Jessica Morehouse, I'll pop right up. So make sure to check me out on the YouTubes. And, uh, you know, speaking of YouTube, um, and I think I mentioned this on my, my last, uh, episode. So I have, I, I'm still updating all my budget spreadsheets. I've released the first one, which many of you have, which is kind of my OG, the original budget spreadsheet. The first budget

spreadsheet I ever released is for people who, if you're like an employee and you're an individual, or you are in a couple and both of you and your partner are employees, so you don't earn any self-employed income. It's pretty straightforward how you earn your income. That spreadsheet is ready to go. It was free. I'm now charging because guess what? It took a lot of work to get it together, but it's cheap as heck. It is $29 Canadian, you guys. So make sure to grab it. It's better than ever, in my opinion. And there's a fresh tutorial on how it works on my YouTube channel. So even before you buy it, you can check out if you, you know, is this something for you? Do you like it? You can check it out before you purchase it or download

it on my YouTube channel. So there you go. Also, I made a video for anyone who is similarly, you know, studying for the CFP, or I mean, I'm not at that point quite yet, but you're on the route. I did make a very niche video about if you want to pass financial planning two by the Canadian Securities Institute, I made a video on how to pass that exam. There's probably five people in the whole world. But hey, you know, I've made videos on how to pass financial planning one in the Canadian Securities course, and people watch those. So I thought I'd do it again. And I've got the tea because I just passed the exam. So if you're interested, check that out. Let's see what else. I'll just kind of leave you with this just because hey, why not? So I, you know, pretty much recorded or booked the rest of the guests for this

season, which like I mentioned earlier, is going to wrap of the guests for this season, which, like I mentioned earlier, is going to wrap up on December 21st. However, because I usually, and let me look at my little spreadsheet for season 16, I have plans. And this is likely the plan that I'm going to resume the podcast on January 18th. That season will run until about June 28. I have it in the calendar. That's about 23 episodes. I want to book I want to, you know, start booking and interviewing some guests for that season in advance. So I'm not rushed in January, I want to have a little bit of a, you know, buffer. So with that, if you have any specific person that you would like me to interview who would make sense for this show, who is an expert in the field of finance, investing, entrepreneurship. I mean, no one's

like, man, do I get a lot of people who apply to be on the show that, you know, just like kind of the cringiest kind of things you get people you can find on, you know, YouTube or social media is like, I, you know, retired at, you know, or social media is like i you know retired at you know 12 years old and make a bazillion dollars every month you know it's it's unrealistic ridiculous crap and usually find out how to get rich and it's like hawking i don't know bitcoin i don't know something weird so um i'm looking for legitimate you know experts people that um really know that have an interesting story or have an interesting perspective. You kind of get a feel if you've looked at lots of my episodes and listened

to a lot of my episodes who would be a good fit. So let me know, like hit me up, DM me on Instagram or Twitter, send me an email Jessica at JessicaMorehouse.com. Or you know, there's a contact form you can use on my website, JessicaMorehouse.com. Or, you know, there's a contact form you can use on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash contact where you can reach me. Tell me who you would love to see on the show. And I will do my best to find out how I can get them on the show. Believe me, I've got some powers. And honestly, I'm pretty good. Like there's only been, I would say, maybe two, possibly three people who I've asked to be on the show who said no. And yeah, I have like almost, you know, 350 episodes, you know, so I've got some persuasive powers, except for those

few, few people. And I will never, never let that go. I'm so irritated that people have said no to me. Hey, people are allowed to say no. But why can't they just say yes and be on my show? You know, they're busy and they have other things to do. That's why Jessica and I'm not paying them. So you know, it is what it is. But yeah, if you have suggestions, please let me know because I would love to hear them. Sometimes I feel like I'm just too in my little, you know, my bubble, my mind, you know, I need to kind of branch out. And so I would love a fresh idea. Please help a girl out. That would be great. Anyways, that is really it for me. I've been talking your ear off. I apologize.

Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate all of you for supporting the show, listening. I love getting messages saying that you love the show. It honestly brings me so much joy. And it really, really is the best thing ever. So thank you. Thank you. Have a good rest of your day. Big shout out, of course, to my wonderful podcast editor who I couldn't do the show without, Matt Rideout. And I will see you back here next Wednesday with a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast. Have a great weekend. See you here, back, back here very soon all right bye this podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network