More Money Podcast - 355 Generational Wealth and the Problems That Come With It - Kristin Keffeler, Author of The Myth of the Silver Spoon and Founder of llumination360

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

We talk a lot about how to build wealth on the More Money Podcast, but what happens when you've finally "made it"? In today's new episode with Kristin Keffeler, author of The Myth of the Silver Spoon, we're taking a look at the other side of money and what problems may arise after you've achieved 1% status. Kristin Keffeler, MSM, MAPP is a human capital coach, family dynamics advisor, consultant, and thought leader at the forefront of today's global shift in wealth advising, Wealth 3.0. She's the founder of Illumination360, in which she specializes in human motivation, behavioural change, and family dynamics, and helps guide affluent and enterprising families, rising gen, and the professionals who support them. Her new book, The Myth of the Silver Spoon, unpacks the hidden traps of inherited wealth and real-life challenges facing those born into affluent families. In today's episode, Kristin shares her story of being a part of a wealthy family and how that impacted her identity and career choices. She also shares what the term "rising gen" means and the most common challenges she helps them face. Kristin also shares why affluent parents need to approach parenting differently and the importance of teaching their kids character-building skills. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/355 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is episode 355, and we are going to be talking about a topic that I have not yet really explored on this podcast, which is wealth, but also the impact of growing up with wealth, which I feel like is kind of a taboo subject because just the messaging that we see in the personal finance community or just in general is, well, the rich suck. Who cares? Boo-hoo. You have all this money. You got problems. I got problems and I have less money than you. So you can just go back into your box. We have a really kind of

twisted toxic relationship with wealth. We want it, but we also are envious of people who have it. And if you have it, you may feel guilty for having it. And these are some of the kind of themes we're going to explore in this episode with my next guest, Kristen Keffler. So she is a human capital coach and a family dynamics advisor, consultant, and thought leader at the forefront of today's global shift in family wealth advising known as Wealth 3.0. And she's also the founder of Illumination 360, where she specializes in human motivation and behavioral change, family dynamics, education, development, and really just supporting these enterprising families, these affluent families in the world of financial planning and just navigating finance when you come from that

background. And not only that, she is the author of the new book, The Myth of the Silver Spoon, which unpacks the hidden traps of inherited wealth and real life challenges facing those born into affluent families. And even though this may not seem like something that maybe affects you in your financial position right now, I mean, the whole kind of point of this podcast, and if you're curious about what I'm talking about on the show and just personal finance in general, is because you want to better your financial circumstances. You want to be able to figure out how to build wealth for yourself and likely generational wealth for your family, your future children, what have you. And so if that is the case, if you were actually successful

in doing so, you may actually face some of these challenges, or if not you, the next generation. And so that's why I think it's a really important thing for us to talk about in this episode of the show. So I know you're going to love it. So without further ado, here is my interview with Kristen. Welcome to the More Money Podcast. Kristen, I'm so excited to have you on. I have not had anyone on the show to talk about this topic yet, and yet I think it's a really, really important one. So I'm thrilled to have you on the show. I'm really excited to be on the show. Thank you for having me, Jessica. You're so welcome. So first, before we dive in, I mean, you have a lot of titles,

you have a lot of roles, what you do now, but they're all pretty, they're pretty unique. When you think of like the financial industry, you may not actually think of, you know, someone who is a coach for, you know, the wealthy, the ultra wealthy, but it's important because, you know, I was just thinking about this when I was writing or reading your book. And a lot of us lot of us, a lot of the people that listen to my show, even myself included, did not come from that place of wealth. But that's something that we aspire to. We would love to be able to do better and especially set up more generational wealth

for our kids or grandkids. And we think that is the solution to kind of all of life's problems. If we had more money, we wouldn't have as many struggles and all these things. I'm curious what kind of, I guess, motivated you to, you know, be, you know, what you call a human capital coach and family dynamics advisor, but specifically really a consultant for families that are navigating wealth? Yeah. I think that that's a great question because it is so, as you said earlier, the role that I have and the work that I do in this and the market that I work in, it's all so niche, right? Super, super niche. But it is what it looks like. But in reality, it's actually kind of a much

bigger space than you would think. And we'll talk a little bit more about that. But for me, one of the things I think that led me to this work is I find that often people who work in this space of working with high net worth families, enterprising families, families that have privately held businesses that are significant, particularly when they work in the human side of things, not, you know, the technical side is like law, finance, accounting. And I don't come through any of those technical doorways. It's everything I do is around the people in the system. And I find that a lot of times people who are like me, who work in that space, have some sort of personal story that they're just trying to figure out themselves. And that leads them to a place where their professional work is ultimately sort of a manifestation of the

personal work they're doing. And my story is similar to that. So I'm the second generation in my family, meaning that my father, he's an entrepreneur and a wealth creator. The last company that he started, he started with my oldest brother. They took that company public and then they sold it. And this was all happening around the time I was going to college. So I'm the youngest of four and my oldest brother is working with my dad families I work with who are working to build businesses that they can pass on as active assets to future generations, my dad's vision was not that. My dad's vision was, I want to take a company public. And that's what he did. So after

four years, three years, it was probably four years. They had grown the company significantly. They took it public and had a successful initial public offering. They had a second public offering. And then a little bit later, they sold it. So there was these series of events where wealth events that just shifted the narrative around money and wealth in my family. And we had always, my dad had always been successful, always a C-suite leader. And so my lived experience of money growing up was like, really like that it was sort of a non-entity in like, I just didn't really pay attention to it, not as something really important and not as something that, you know, like it was just sort of a non thing for me, which which I know is and I recognize now is a huge privilege. Right. Like not worrying about, you know, where where food was coming from and the neighborhood that we lived in and the house that we were able to have. Those are all things that were just taken care of and I never considered. But I also never

really considered wealth and money as a birthright or as, it just didn't register. But then when my dad had taken this company public and sold it and there's these couple of wealth events and my dad ended up retiring, then my mom retired and they were young, like in their early fifties, mid fifties, maybe. Um, and they, they just started doing things that people with who have now created, uh, you know, fairly significant wealth in their lives. They, what they do, they traveled more and we try, I traveled with them. They, they built a, we, we already had a nice family home

in the mountains here in Colorado, but they sold that and built a sort of a bigger, you know, splashier thing. And so all of these things that, that. But for me, the thing that was most, for me, there was like two things that happened. And one was this identity journey where I was, at this point, I was in school getting a master's in public health. All of my peers were people who were also interested in public health and interested in going into public service. And the mindset around somebody who's interested in that kind of work is very often really focused not on generating wealth, but on service, right? And so the people that I was surrounded with were people I just adored. And I loved the

learning and the work we're doing together. But I felt a push-pull between that really, that focus on service and that public health place that I was in school and this other reality that was my family's unfolding wealth story. And I didn't feel like those two things could coexist. Like I could be the daughter of a wealth creator in public health school openly. Like I couldn't be out in that way. And that felt confusing, but I didn't understand the confusion at the time. So there was this internal journey happening. And then there was this external thing also happening where my parents were early adopters

of the idea of family meetings, which is now a much more common practice for families of significance, whether it's business-owning families or wealth owning families. But we started meeting as a family to talk about how the estate was structured and understand taxes and understand how things were invested and those kinds of things. And I just felt confused time and time again. I didn't, you know, I had an undergraduate degree in human biology and chemistry. I was in school getting an MPH, and I ended up also getting a business master's degree. So I had a little bit of experience and exposure when I was in business school, but that still wasn't the language of trusts and estates. It's not the language that was really... So I didn't understand the acronyms that were being used to talk about

different estate structures. I didn't understand complex investing. I didn't even understand the language to be able to ask questions so that I could learn. And so there was these, in my 20s, there were these two things that were happening. It was both the inner journey and the impact of that family wealth. It wasn't even my wealth, right? It's like, it's, I didn't own any of it. I didn't, it, but there was this family wealth piece that, that was really, that had an impact for me on relationships and on, um, the sense of, of having a fully integrated identity. Like I felt like I was two different people depending on kind of what face, what situation I was in. And then the outer journey of feeling like someone's trying to help me understand this landscape, but they're not speaking a language that I can even start to understand.

And so how can I become engaged and how can I become a good steward of these resources when I don't even understand what these people are saying? So ultimately, that quest to understand the inner landscape of money and wealth and kind of what my relationship to that was, and then understand the things that these advisors were talking to us about, led me to ultimately to the things that these advisors were talking to us about led me to, ultimately, to the work that I do today. When I was 29, I started my coaching practice that eventually became a consulting firm. And at the start, I just really wanted to work with other rising gen like me. And I wanted to help them shortcut some of the learning that took me so much effort to try to get around the language and understanding your own personal journey and relationship, being able to create an identity separate from your family so that you can actually

stand on your own two feet, follow a path that is meaningful. And if you choose ultimately to integrate those resources into your life in a way that is meaningful, but to not over-identify with them. So that's the story of how I got into this work. And ultimately it grew so that I was working primarily with just Rising Gen and then realized like, wow, whole family systems need this work. We need to have broader conversations about what is this for? And how can we as a family use the privilege that we have to direct it to something meaningful. Like what does meaning look like for us? And so now 18 years in, this is where the place I get to sit. Like we've said, it's a really unique, it's unique work and it seems like a pretty niche market. It is a pretty niche market. But I think the impact of this work is significant

because of the nature of the fact that these families have really strong social connections. You know, they're broadly socially networked, and they have access to private capital. And between those two things, there's a great power in the money that they have. And how can they use that for good? I mean, yeah, it's interesting because I think a lot of the focus just in the overall personal finance community is wealth building. It's like, we don't have wealth. How do we build it? But there aren't too many conversations, I feel like, about once you reach that goal, what's next. And I think a lot of us are working for that for us, and then for, you know, our, you know, the next generation, but we're not having those conversations about how do we maintain this? But also, what would the impact be? I think, you know,

and you really did kind of speak to this in your book, which I'm like, yes, exactly. That's how people think is, you know, we think the solution is just like, if I, you know, set up my kids, so they don't have to worry about money, then they'll have no worries that they will have a much better life than I did, they won't have to have the same struggles. But there's other struggles, right? Like everyone has problems. They are just different problems. And I think that's the hard thing, because and you also talk about this in your book is no one wants to hear the problems of someone who has wealth. Because we always, I was just reading an article about Prince Harry and Meghan, and no one wants to hear about their problems because, well, this guy's a prince and they've got a mansion and a bunch of money.

Woe is me. Why would we care? It's like, well, people have problems and money or having to accumulate that wealth may not be one of their problems, but there's probably other things out there. And similarly, his whole thing, I mean, not to talk about Prince Eric, but his whole thing really right now is about trying to create whatever his own personal identity is. And I'm sure a lot of other people that come from that family wealth, they do struggle on how can I separate myself. And, you know, one thing I thought was so interesting in your book is the idea that they have to kind of one up their, their, you know, their family, you know, it's like, well, they were able to achieve this, so I should achieve a little bit more, like 10% more. And sometimes that just sounds crazy, right? Well, and like a nearly impossible or for most people, impossible task. When you think about the how high if if the if the metric of success is is financial, then when you have someone who is a wealth creator who has been able to generate tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions of dollars, right? Like the amount of money that

is like just a pure abstraction to us. It's so big. When you think about that, those people are like, it's a very rare subset of people who have the idea, the dedication, the commitment, the willingness, the moment in time that it all comes together to do that. And then when their kids and their grandkids look at that bar of success and they say, well, my dad or my mom or my grandma was able to do that. Like, what am I, chopped liver? If I just have a job, if I just am like, you know, responsible with my money and raise good kids, is that like not, is that good enough? And, and I think that the, that bar of success can be set so high that, that everybody pales by comparison. Um, and, and so it really takes that work. Like

you were talking about with Prince Harry, It takes that work of really learning who you are as an individual and that you can be both connected to and separate from the bigness and the massiveness of your family lineage. But it's finding that separate from that, that makes it so, so ultimately you can define what success looks like for, for you. Um, and it's, it's from the outside, it would look like, like, Hey, money solves so many problems and it does, right. It, it like, it solves so many problems, but it can't solve every problem. And in fact, having it creates some other problems or other challenges. And one of the things that I really wanted to do with this book was to shine a spotlight on some of those other challenges, in part because in my experience of coaching Rising Gen for a long time now, there's a quiet suffering that happens because they know that no one wants to hear that they might have challenges. much that ultimately, not only do they not live their own authentic life, but the access they have

to creating change is really limited because they are so tangled up inside that they can't even use what they've been given in a way that would be powerful, impactful, joyful. And so it's like that, to me, I feel like there's a call to action here, not as a cry for the poor little rich girl or rich boy, but instead for us collectively to have a reckoning of our relationship with money and wealth and to think about how we can heal at all some of the challenges they face, especially that, you know, the next gen or the rising gen, as you say, what are some of the things that you hear the most that they struggle with? Yeah, let me let me first just I'll let me just name why I say rising gen instead of next gen, because next gen is our sort of common terminology. And one of the primary reasons is that next gen always puts a family member in relationship to the wealth

creator. So the wealth creator continues to be like this central figure in the whole family narrative, which they are already anyway. But every time we say like, but you're just in relationship to this person, it just anchors this idea that that's part of the role of being in a family is to be part of the team that is rotating around this figure. And rising gen has a different, it's like a rising gen is someone who is really willing and able to adopt the psychology of growth and commitment to self while still honoring family and who they, you know, that family narrative. So I use rising gen not as a euphemism, but actually as a very specific term to really

anchor the underlying psychology that is one that I'm in favor of. So that's a great question, Jessica. What are some of the common things that come up for rising gen in these families? And everybody's got their own unique story. And time and time again, I hear things like, you know, we were talking about it a little bit ago about that bar of success. Like the shoes, the shoes of my parents or grandparents, they're too big to fill. Like how, how can I, I remember very early on in my coaching, I was talking to a fifth generation family member who I had been coaching for a while. And she was, she was about to, she was, she was in her, she was 24. When she turned 25, she was going to get a pretty significant trust distribution. It was the first one that she was ever getting.

I am, I think it was, you know, $500,000 or something, which a 25-year-old getting $500,000, that's pretty significant. And as the time got closer for that, she got more and more anxious. And as we were talking about it, she finally said, I have no idea if I can do good by this money. I don't know if I feel ready to receive it. I don't know that I, she, and she, she was very responsible. She wasn't worried that she was going to like blow it, but she was like, how do I do something more than just receive it and have it be sort of this inert thing that I'm consuming? Like, and she was thinking about her grandparents. Remember, she's a fifth generation. So she's had all these people to see in front of her. And she was feeling very paralyzed. And she was the first person I ever

heard say, those shoes, like receiving that money means I have to step up and I don't know how to. Those shoes seem too big. So that's one. The other one, and I alluded to this a little bit ago in this idea of identifying with wealth. And one of the things I see is very often rising gen family members will do one of two things. There's this continuum of over-identifying with wealth, with family wealth, wealth that you haven't earned yourself. And where it's like, that is part of me. Like, I am this family. I, we, you know, and that you internalize that sense of being from a wealthy family and having wealth as part of just who you are. And then there's this other side, which is under identifying with wealth. And I see this a lot with, with rising gen who will move across the country. They'll try to get, you know, they'll move out of the country to try to get away from a

significant family name, even if they love their family. They're just like, I'm tired of being known as a whatever family in my community. Everybody knows me. Everybody knows my family's wealthy. So they will, and in under-identifying with wealth, they will work really hard to create distance from it. And in both cases, there's the shadow side of, there's not a healthy integration of that story. And without a healthy integration of that story and a healthy relationship with the money from the family, it is not a tool for good, right?

It's still something, this force that is directing the individual in a way that they probably don't feel fully at choice. They don't feel like they are their own self. And so that's the second thing I hear a lot is just, or I, what I see a lot is this sort of over-identifying and under-identifying with wealth. And, and I think that those, so those are some of the key things I'll, I'll see, but I also often will hear, I'll often hear rising gen say, you know, like, I don't know if I have any really good friends. I don't know how to suss out, to be really discerning.

And which feels crazy to you and me sitting here where it's like, yeah, like, you know, whether someone's an authentic friend or not, but, but those are built skills over time. And if, and, you know, I think about, I think about elementary school and middle school and those tough times of, of relational dynamics. And when you're getting a sense for when someone is a real friend, how do they treat you versus when someone is sort of, you know, what I would call the near enemy of a friend, which is like, it looks like a friend, but they're not really there to like be with you in the toughest times. And I think, and I use this term, the term near enemy is a Buddhist term that the concept is like, it looks like the thing, but it's not quite the thing, right? So it looks like an authentic friend, but it's not quite an authentic friend. And a lot of times,

because we collectively have this relationship with money and wealth that has a lot of shadows, the people who, the rising gen who have been raised in situations where they have wealth will name that they are not exactly sure if the people who are around them, their friends, the people they're dating, really love them for them or love that they have a cool house with cool things. They go on fun vacations, right? Like, is it really like a genuine friendship or is it like they like, they're sort of enamored with that wealthy lifestyle as well and so that's another one that i think is um is is painful and it's a and it can be a tough one to build but it ultimately is an essential skill to have that

discernment in order to find peace on the path. Do you find it common with rising gen that they want to try to hide their wealth just so they, because you always hear stories about that, like, oh, and we discovered so-and-so actually has a lot of wealth and he hit it because he wanted people to like him for him. Is that a common scenario? Super common. Super common. I was just in a conversation with a woman this week who is a third generation. She's 42. She's a successful attorney. And she has wealth from both sides. Her mom and her dad, who are not married anymore, have both generated significant wealth. And she's got multiple generations of wealth coming down on her dad's side. So she has in her name tens of millions

of dollars of trusts and has a very conflicted relationship with all of it. And she was saying, we were talking about kind of that relationship piece. And she was saying that she said, I've been really trying to challenge myself. I mean, she's 42, right? So she's lived a lot of adult life in the quote unquote, in the closet, like just, you know, not sharing her story with people who are very close to her because she didn't want to be judged by that. She wanted to know that these people were her friends. The people she was dating were dating her because they wanted to be with her. And she said that she'd been challenging herself to share more with her friends. And she's like, even people I really consider close friends, I have vulnerability hangovers after I will share just a little bit. She said, I finally told one of my friends, like, I feel like I'm sending you a naked picture of myself and you can do with it whatever you want, right? Like you might share it with all sorts of

people and that's how vulnerable it feels. And, and you think about like, just like there, there's something that is very healthy about wanting to protect that story and, and vet the people in your life first. Um, so I'm not, I don't advocate to, to the rice engine I work with that. They should just go display that and be like, eh, let's see, let's see what happens. I feel like that is a tender. It's everybody has their own story and around. Everybody has their own story.

Everybody has their own money story that they've inherited from their family lineage that has all sorts of entanglements because we tend to have a pretty complex relationship with money. And we don't have to go share that on every first date and every, you know, when a friendship is unfolding. And there is this part, it's like the moments when we share whatever is important and tender to us in a relationship, when you feel like there's enough social capital to do it and you share, it can be terrifying. And one of the things that Rising Gen run into is that because collectively we have the shadowy relationship with money and definitely a confused relationship with those who have wealth. Like it's something we both envy and disdain at the same time. That it feels even extra vulnerable because they're like, okay, now I'm, I'm going to reveal myself as, and, and this person

may now judge me differently or think that I was lying to them about who I really am when I'm just protecting this part of me. And it's like very, very big minefield. Yeah. So what, I mean, you know, it seems like there's just like, uh, yeah, a lot of, uh, a lot of emotions and, you know, it seems like there's just like, yeah, a lot of a lot of emotions. And, you know, I'm just thinking of like, you know, a lot of guilt and shame. And, you know, it's uncomfortable because, yeah, I think as a society, we have a weird relationship with the wealthy. We want it. But then we also kind of, you know, hate people who have it if we don't have it, you know. So it's like it's kind of conflicting.

So, you know, I do think when, you know, let's say we are lucky enough to get to that stage where we are able to build wealth and pass it on, what can we do better as those wealth creators to set up the next generation, so they are, they don't have as many hangups? Is it possible? Or is the issue so so big because a lot of the issues come just with like society's kind of, you know, outlook on wealth? Gosh, such a great question. I absolutely think it's possible to do this well as parents. And I think, you know, like all things, we can't ask our children to do something that we can't role model to them, right?

We can't ask them to be more vulnerable or more gritty or more courageous than we are also able to role model and be ourselves. And so I think the same applies to this idea of how do we help tend to our families in a way that they can have a healthier relationship with money and ultimately with the wealth we might pass on. So think about you and the people in your community are thinking about and wanting and striving towards building wealth. The ongoing work around why and what that means and doing your own inner work around money is a huge step forward. Because then when you get to that place where you can look around and say, wow, I have amassed enough money that I have security for as long as I can see it. Now I have the ability to pass resources on to my kids,

and that feels like a huge accomplishment. And it is a huge accomplishment. And when you can do that and have a healthy relationship with it, then you can have conversations with your kids about that because you'll naturally be role modeling that. One of the things that I also think is really important to recognize for parents who are parenting in the space of financial resource is that one of the things that money can do is create a buffering effect in our lives for all of us. And it can really, but for those who have created the wealth, they've learned a lot of lessons that that buffering effect is different, right? Like they've probably learned to be gritty. They've learned to have a growth mindset and keep striving

even when things are difficult. And when they feel failure, they get up and they try again. Once you have wealth, you have to parent in a way that is more intentional towards those character strengths and skills. And I talk about this in the book. So it's a great resource for your listeners as they are starting to parent in the space and thinking about setting themselves up well and their families up well. To parent in the space of wealth, kids who are parented in wealthy families don't need different, they don't need to achieve different developmental milestones than every kid needs. Like kids just like there's a developmental path that we all need to follow and certain things we need to learn along the way. Wealth creates this buffer that can rob

children of and adolescents and young adults of the opportunities to build some of those key things. And so parents who are parenting in that space need to be mindful that just because you can do something, you know, that just, you know, we could think of any number of examples, like just because you can buy a car, a brand new car for your kid doesn't necessarily mean you should. Like, what is it that you're trying to parent for? And do you want them to have some skin in the game? And do you want them to drive a brand new fancy car? Or do you want them to have a safe vehicle that can get them around

that they can feel like they have true ownership over? And really being thoughtful about parenting based on values, not based on circumstances, is one of the ways that we can create a much healthier environment inside our own family ecosystems. Because ultimately, there is this cultural piece and that is going to require our kids to be ready to really sort of own their own identity, own their own story, because we can't change all that.

I mean, hopefully we will continue to make inroads on our collective relationship with money. But until that shifts, there is an opportunity for families to create a really healthy ecosystem so that it's not so confusing for kids. Yeah, no, I think that's, that's so, so important. And again, something that we don't often talk about and it's awkward to talk about. Yeah. Like we kind of touched on at the beginning of this episode, no one, um, we always talk about the lack of wealth or building wealth, but once you have it, no one really wants to talk about it. So yeah, I think there's a lot of work we need to do in conversations that still need to be had so we can all, like you said, as a collective, have a healthier relationship with both sides of wealth. Because yeah, ultimately, and I talk about this on the show all the time, money is simply a tool, and it's a tool that you can't take with you once your time is done. And so it's so important to

not just, you know, build your wealth. And that's the solution. It's not like, no, the whole point of building wealth is so you can then use it for a tool to, you know, either better your community, better your family, your situation, like use it in a as a positive force, because like you said, a lot of the families that have significant wealth, they have significant power. And I've seen, we've all seen examples in the media of, you know, those families or institutions that have used it for not so good reasons for, you know, reasons, you're like, gosh, if I had that opportunity, I'd probably do things differently. So I think having those conversations, you know, with yourself, but also, yeah, with the, uh, rising gen is so important to, to build that better, you know, world that we all kind of

hope to achieve one day. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it is such a, I think it's such a rich terrain and I, you know, I, as I, as I said at the very beginning, like the, the work I do is in this, in this really niche market. But, um, I alluded to this idea that like it, it actually has such broader application. And I, and I think that you and I have touched on many of the themes here today that are about that broader application, because it really is about like health and, and healthy relationships with money across the spectrum. And that, um, there's no doubt that those who hold wealth hold a lot of power, right? And when, when we are in a darker shadow, we place around that, that power either becomes stagnant or can get used in ways that are, um, that don't, that don't shine the light on everyone. And, um, and so there's a,

there's a different way. And it's, this is part of like part of the path, I think. And I think part of the ability to build wealth well, like to attract money in that way comes from having a really healthy relationship with it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so before I let you go, where can people find more information about you specifically and grab a copy of your book, the myth of the silver spoon? Yeah, thank you. Um, so the, thank you. So you can find more about me on, so my website is illumination, I-L-L-U-M-I-N-A-T-I-O-N 360. So illumination360.com.

You can also buy the book there, but it's also available on all major booksellers. So Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or your local favorite local bookstore, go ask them. I bet they will get a copy for you. And I'm on LinkedIn. I don't, I'm not so great as the millennial crowd on all the rest of the social media. I get so overwhelmed with the input of it all that I decided I can't do it. But I am on LinkedIn and under Kristen Ke, and under Kristen Keffler, K E F F E L E R. Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Kristen, for taking the time to, to talk about this really

important topic that, you know, again, we don't talk enough about, but I think it's, you know, and you even said in your book, there aren't that many books about this topic. And there should be because how are we going to have those conversations when there aren't too many guides out there to, you know, help us kind of navigate it. So I appreciate you coming on the show to, to shine a light on this topic. Absolutely. Jessica, thank you. This has been really delightful. I love the work that you're doing. I love that you are creating a positive path forward, um, to, to, to wealth creation for a whole new generation of people who are thinking about it in new and empowering ways. So thank you for doing the work you do. Thank you.

And that was episode 355 with Kristen Kevler. Make sure to check her out at illumination360.com. You can find all the information about her and what her practice does. But again, I'll also include a bunch of links about her and some of the things that we discussed in this episode in the podcast show notes. So just go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash 355. And if you ever want to find out the podcast show notes for any other previous episode that you've listened to, all you have to do, you can either go to JessicaMorehouse.com slash podcast or JessicaMorehouse.com slash whatever the number of that episode is.

And it should be listed somewhere on whatever device or app that you are looking at. So make sure to do that. And of course, since Kristen came on the show because she has a book, guess what? I'm giving away a copy of her book, The Myth of the Silver Spoon. Just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. And you'll also find that I'm giving away a copy of Jason V. Tig's new book, Happy Money, Happy Life. So you can enter to win both. And I will be adding more books to the book giveaway as the season continues because I have a bunch of other authors coming on the show as well. And I love to give away books because I

like to spread some joy. I just honestly mailed out last season's book giveaway winners their books. Literally, I feel like, you know, I do a lot of these things manually, probably could outsource, but I don't know. Sometimes I like doing things myself. And I literally went to the post office, good old Canada Post, and mailed packages. I feel like there's just something special of, you know, you knowing that if you win, it's me personally who is going to the post office and mailing you that book with a little special card inside it.

I just like to, I like that personal touch, basically. But yeah, lots of exciting things to come this season. Lots of more books that I will be adding to that book giveaway and lots of exciting things. I hope to share more exciting things as the season continues, but that's really all I've got for now. Besides also reminding you that all of my budget spreadsheets are now available on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. And if you want to take a look at what exactly they look like, how they work, you can do so by going on my YouTube channel, jessicamorehouse.com slash YouTube. And I have

all the video tutorials on there. So you can take a look and see, you know, all the different versions. There's even a quiz on my shop page. So you can put in your info in and it'll tell you which budget spreadsheet is the right fit for you because I've developed, I think, seven different spreadsheets for all these different scenarios. And the reason is because, honestly, I've had these spreadsheets for years and years and years. They've been downloaded thousands and thousands of times.

But I kept on getting emails from people like, hey, do you have a spreadsheet for someone like me where I'm an employee and my husband's self-employed? And I'm like, cool, I'll make that spreadsheet. And now I have seven different spreadsheets for pretty much every scenario that exists. And if there's something else out there, I'm not doing anymore. This is my limit. It took me like a year to upgrade these spreadsheets. So that's what's going on. But yeah, all the info is on my website and my YouTube channel has the videos as well. So you can check those out. Also, a reminder, if you don't know, I have an investing course all about wealth building. So kind of a fitting for this episode. So it's called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. And you can find

more info at jessicamorehouse.com slash course. But it is really a course that goes through all the key things you need to know about investing, especially specifically for Canadians, because I know there's a lot of investing information and courses, but they're by Americans who don't know Canadian investing. It is different. They can't open up accounts here. They don't know the products that we have. I mean, they just don't have it. You know, it's a different vibe.

It's a different thing. It's a different thing. They just don't know. And so I built a course specifically to kind of answer that call, specifically for Canadians. And then it goes really in depth about how to be a passive investor. So how to either build your own index portfolio or use a robo-advisor, how to build your own investment plan, how to build long-term wealth. I am not about day trading or getting rich quick or, gosh, remember when we were talking about crypto and NFTs? Or I wasn't, but everyone was online. Yeah, I wonder how that's going. Not well. So if you want something that actually makes sense, it has a methodology. There is a strategy. There is a plethora of experts and

books out there about this concept of passive investing or index investing. You can check out my course that goes through what it's all about and how to actually do it. So jessicamorehouse.com slash courses where you can find all that information. But that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening. I will be back here next Wednesday for a fresh new episode. Thank you to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. And I will see you back here next week. Have an amazing weekend, and I'll see you soon. this podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network find out more at women in media.network