More Money Podcast - 357 Investing for the Next Generation - Michelle Hung, Financial Planner, Author and Founder of The Sassy Investor

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

I have the Sassy Investor, aka Michelle Hung, joining me as a guest on the show today. I was so excited to have Michelle on the podcast to talk about the power of investing and why she believes younger generations should start learning about money management and investing as soon as possible (and I couldn't agree more!). Michelle Hung is a CFA charter holder (Chartered Financial Analyst), a fee-only financial planner, and the author of The Sassy Investor, and Investing for Teens: How to Save, Invest, and Grow Money. After spending 7 years working in corporate finance and investment banking, she’s switched her focus to teaching others how to invest for their financial futures in order to build a lifetime of wealth. In today’s episode, Michelle shares her backstory and how the Sassy Investor was born out of going through a tough time in her life. She also shares why she decided to write a book specifically for teens and young adults about how to invest and the mistakes she hopes her book will help them avoid making. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/357 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 357 of the show. And today I've got Michelle Hung, who is joining me and we're going to be talking about how to manage money for teenagers. If you're a youth, what you can do. If you're a parent, what can you do? What can you do? Because I feel like often we just talk about adults. And although yes, when you were a teenager, there's not a lot you can do. You know, you do for most things have to be 18 or older. But there's some things that you can do. There's some things that we're going to be talking about that in this episode. So in case you don't know, Michelle Hung is the author of two books. Her

first book is called The Sassy Investor, and her newest book is called Investing for Teens, How to Save, Invest, and Grow Money. And she is a fee-only financial planner, and she's taught thousands of students and clients how to plan for their financial future and invest in the stock market to build a lifetime of wealth. She is also a CFA charterholder, a chartered financial analyst is what that stands for, and has spent over seven years working in investment banking and venture capital prior to starting her career in personal finance and financial education.

And also, if you're curious, on her website, thesassyinvestor.ca, she has a free masterclass on how to build your first $100,000 investment portfolio. So you can check that out at thesassyinvestor.ca slash investing dash masterclass. But yeah, we're going to be talking about some great interesting things. I know you're going to love this episode. And yeah, but before I of course get to that interview, a few words I first want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the more money podcast is supported by The Globe and Mail. Although there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding the economy, interest rates, housing prices, and inflation right now, one thing you can be certain about is there's never been a better time to invest in your own financial knowledge. Surrounding yourself with quality information

and diverse opinions from The Globe and Mail, Canada's leading source of business and investing news, will better equip you to navigate this year and help you make confident decisions. Globeandmail.com offers an expansive array of personal finance content, newsletters, and tools like the RRSP Tax Savings Calculator that go well beyond just business news and commentary. And for a limited time, the Globe is offering unrestricted access to globeandmail.com for just $75 a year plus tax for your first year. For full details, visit globeandmail.com slash podcast. Once again, visit globeandmail.com slash podcast to start investing in yourself today. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Michelle. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much, Jessica, for having me here. I'm so excited.

Me too. Me too. Me too. And I'm especially excited because we have two books out, The Sassy Investor, which is your original book. When did that come out? Not too, too long ago, I feel like. Yeah, it wasn't too long ago. It was published in early 2019. And you came out with a second book, Recently Investing for Teens, How to Save, Invest, and Grow Money. I'm so excited to dive into that topic because I get questions all the time from parents or grandparents about they're really interested in the world of personal finance and investing, and they want to be able to teach their, you know, kids or grandkids about investing. And there isn't a lot of information or it's, it's difficult to find that information. So I'm so excited that you have a book specifically on that topic. But before we really dive in,

do you want to kind of share a little bit about yourself? I know, you know, you have been on, you know, my social medias for a while, been following you for quite a while, but you're a fee only financial planner and a CFA charter holder here in Canada. And, you know, I know you do lots of investing coaching. Do you want to kind of share a little bit about, you know, your journey, how you got to where you are now running your own show? Yeah, sure. So I started off in corporate finance, investment banking. Like I graduated with a finance degree, sorry, math degree, specializing in finance from the University of Waterloo. So I thought I was just, you know, like I thought I was going to be doing corporate

finance for the rest of my life. But of course not. Everyone's plans get derailed. And, you know, it was just like wishful thinking. And I was ambitious when I was in my 20s but um by the time I was like in my early 30s I had been laid off from my job um and I was in a long-term relationship actually it was over like almost a 12-year relationship so I was practically married um so that ended and you know it was just a huge like reality check and life just hit me in the face and you know that was a good uh that was a that was an interesting turning point in my life and

I got to be able to assess and reevaluate what I really wanted to do and one of the basically like my saving grace was you know having um a six-figure investment portfolio built. And because of that, I wasn't in a rush to get a job. I wasn't in a rush to go back to work. And on top of that, at that time, my nine-year-old dog fell really ill and I had to put him down. So it was really like a lot of things hit me at that time. But because I was not financially strapped, I was okay for money, I was able to take the time to, you know, reset, reevaluate my life, and just restart on my own terms on my own timeline. And that's when I really realized the importance of, you know, having a, you know, a nest egg, a cushion, which allowed me to, you know, just do whatever I wanted to do. So after spending

almost seven years in investment banking, you know, I was exhausted. wanted to do. So after spending almost seven years in investment banking, you know, I was exhausted. And of course, that year that I was laid off, I was like, you know what, I kind of went on a little bit of a hiatus, took a couple of vacations on my own, and just really was able to take care of myself and finally figure out what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And I realized, you know, even over the years, people were asking me, what should I invest in? What should I invest in? And a lot of times I'd be like, yeah, you know, just pick some stocks, right? And I actually started off writing a book on how to pick stocks. And then I quickly realized, okay, most people should

not be picking their own stocks. At least not at first. So that's what I teach now. But at the very beginning, I'm like, okay, what is the bare minimum people need to do? Because most people, a lot of people weren't even investing, period. So it's like, okay, at the very minimum, earn an average market return, buy some exchange fund, some ETFs. They're a lot cheaper, the traditional mutual funds offered in Canada. So I started off writing a book and then I built a business, my entire business around it. And that's where that's when I started working towards my CFP, like becoming a financial planner and coaching people and teaching people. So I wanted to like I created and an, where the Stassi Investor is an educational platform first. And I want to make sure that everyone knows what's happening with their money. Even if you're working one-on-one with me, I'm like, you have to understand what's happening with your investments. Even if you don't manage your own money and you go to an advisor, at least you'll know the right questions to ask. So that was my focus. And that's how I basically built this platform. That's amazing. I'm curious when, you know,

working with people one-on-one or even at the beginning, when you were talking to your friends, were there a lot of similar questions they were asking? Like, I find that all the time, like, oh, wow, everyone's just asking about that. Or the other side of it is, you know, a lot of people do start out working with an advisor, just because usually they like just work with mom and dad's, you know, guy or gal and, or they just, you know, go to the bank, they're like, I need help. And what I found over the years is, it's fascinating, because, you know, a lot of people just expect, oh, I'm going to hand over my money to this person, they're going to manage it well. But yeah, like you said,

you actually still need that foundation of, you know, investment education to know the right questions to ask. But I'm curious, what were some of the things at the start when you're kind of building your platform that you're like, I really need to focus on this? Because no, like people keep on getting this wrong, or they were asking the wrong questions. Yeah, exactly. And one of the common things that people do get wrong um especially for women like i don't want to like kind of zone in on like you know it's i don't even i don't want to stereotype but it's just like for some reason it's just we're so risk averse right i don't even think that's a stereotype i think that's like i think that's true there's definitely some data and i

would and i kind of yeah, I feel like that. And I feel like, and I wonder what your perspective is. Usually it's because we, like, this is what I've found over the years is we assume that we're risk averse because we also hear that stat a lot. Oh, women are risk averse. I guess we're risk averse. And there's definitely some like legitimate reasons. It's like, well, we can't take on as much risk because we earn less or we have more responsibilities, take care of the family and things like that but i think also part of it is we were never included in these conversations so we know we don't know much but you know it seems like our male counterparts know or have more information or they're a lot more

confident but i mean that's a whole other episode but yeah sorry go on so the risk aversion so so what ends up happening is they're in a prop they end up in uh funds or investments they're just they're not taking enough risk and i think that's a huge risk right because you end up selling yourself short on so much returns down the road right like i see you know um people and you know people in their 20s coming to me and they're in you know investments meant for people in their 60s and 70 me and they're in investments meant for people in their 60s and 70s. I'm like, what are you doing? And then they're like, my money's not growing.

It's like, of course it's not growing because you have so much fixed income in your portfolio. And when I asked them, how did you end up in this? And they're like, oh, well, the person, the advisor asked me, what's your risk level? Are you a risky person? Are you not risky? He's like, yeah, I don't want to take any risk. I don't want to lose money. Yeah, because risk sounds like a bad thing, right? Because I found that too back many years when I worked with an

advisor. It's some of the terminology that they use or they just don't take the time to actually explain what risk means. And like you said, there's a risk of not taking on enough risk. That's a risk. Absolutely. And then it's like, oh, well, five, 10 years have passed and then you haven't made any money. But meanwhile, you could have like more than doubled your money. So that's that is a very, very common mistake I see, especially with women. And it's kind of like a psychological thing as well, a behavioral thing. So I always like to point to, you know, the show Squid Game. So you know how there was a game where they had to pick a number between one and like 14, right? And the guy in his mind was like, oh,

like everyone's going to like go towards the middle because it's safer. They're not first, they're not last. We don't know what's happening, right? It's the same thing with investing. People just hover around like the middle, like on a scale of one to 10, they're like, oh, okay, around five or six, six or seven, that's safe, right? But it's like, no, that's like, you're going to be in a balance fund. And again, that's going to be like a risk level more geared towards people nearing retirement or in retirement, right? And then that's what often ends up happening. So it's almost a behavioral thing. People just hover around the middle because it's deemed safer, right? But it's like, there's really nothing wrong with picking a risk level of 10. And frankly, a 10 out of 10 is still considered a medium level risk, right? Especially

if you're with a robo-advisor, because they're going to be sticking you in a whole bunch of ETFs. And most of those ETFs are, if you go to their websites, it says it's a medium risk level. So that's a trick that a lot of people don't talk about. No. And yeah, like you said, I don't think a lot of them understand what those risk levels mean. Or if you choose something that's less risky risky what you're actually giving up for that security or you know kind of comfort of like well you know because I think there's just a lot of fear in the industry whereas like they just really use that as a tactic to to encourage you know oh you need to hire me because I'm the only one who could manage your investments you just don't know enough and you're like well actually we can learn we can learn. We can all learn this. And I think that's part of the reason we both got into

financial education is we felt like we were kind of shortchanged maybe, you know, in the industry. And we're like, well, we can learn this. And then we could also teach a bunch of other people. So I'm curious when you got the idea to write your book, The Sassy Investor, what did you really want to convey to readers? With The Sassy Investor, I did you really want to convey to readers? With The Sassy Investor, I guess it was based on my experience, you know, coming out of relationship, getting laid off. It's like I wanted, you know, it was about, you know, independence and, you know, taking my power back. I remember going through the interview process, getting rejected by so many employers.

And then I was, you know, nobody likes rejection, of course. I was like, you know, I was feeling really down. But then I was like, wait a minute, like we put way too much power in the hands of others, whether it's with, you know, our partners, employers, and we have, we create this dependency. It's like, no, we have to take our power back. And you know, to a point where it's like, you have a cushion and, you know, you don't, if something happens, like, you know, you're getting harassed's like, you have a cushion and, you know, you don't, if something happens, like, you know, you're getting harassed at work, you're not happy in your job. You can just, you have the choice to like pick up and leave. Right. And same with a relationship,

right? If you're in a crappy relationship, um, you have the, you know, the resources to just pick up and leave and not have to be stuck in a relationship. So my first book was based around that, which was why I was geared towards women because I, you know, in going through my journey and my healing process, I realized, you know, a lot of women were unable, they're unable to detach from, you know, their abusive spouses because simply because they were financially dependent on them. I'm like, that's not fun. And, you know, that's not the way to go. So it's like, no, we have to do something about this. So that's what my first book was based around. And that was like my experience. That's amazing. And I think that's, that's super helpful. I've always felt how important, like, I don't know where I got it. Cause it's not like I really had a personal

experience that led me to this conclusion, but I've just never wanted to depend on anyone, whether that was, you know, a partner or an employer. I think maybe it's my husband thinks it's because I just don't like authority, but I don't know. That's true too. That's fine. That could be it. But yeah, that financial independence piece is so key because yeah, I've run into so many people that have been unable to leave situations or stayed longer in a situation that wasn't healthy because they just didn't have the means. And I feel like, especially as women, typically we are the people that, you know, end up in those situations. So we need to figure out

how can I eliminate that because that's just not healthy. So, so with that, you obviously kind of took a bit of a turn and did a very different topic investing for teens. I'm curious, did you get a lot of demand from your audience about, hey, there's not a lot of info about this, I would love to see a book from you on this topic? Yeah, there were definitely questions around, you know, how should I invest for my kids, my teens. And like, even after I published my first book, I was like, okay, my next book in my pipeline, it's going to be geared towards teens, like young adults, like just before they get into they make a huge financial decision. And that is going to university. Right. Because I've seen, you know, like I know, like at least in Canada, our student loans are a little bit less like forgiving compared to our like US counterparts, right? So but still, a lot of people, we, you know, a lot of people are still graduating with 30, 40 $50,000 of debt.

In the States, we see people with six figures worth of student loans by the time they graduate. And then, you know, I hear all these stories about, oh, my gosh, I didn't even get to finish school, I changed subjects, but you know, I owe $250,000. And you know, they're in a they're working for a nonprofit organization or something like that, right. And I was like, okay, no, no, no. We have to make better financial decisions when we're young, because we're so young and all of a sudden it's like, make a decision and there's going to be some significant financial impacts like somewhere down the road. Yeah, for decades to come. And you're like, I'm 18 or 17. I don't know. Exactly. Yeah. We're like not even legal. We can't even drink here or even like in the States.

So it's like, how do you like, how are you like, how are kids supposed to make good decisions when they don't know what's, you know, what the consequences are? And certainly when parents aren't teaching them these things. Right. So I found that, you know, this is a gap that I wanted to fill. It's like, OK, before you make a decision to, you know, go to school, take on $50,000 worth of debt, you know, this is what's going to happen. This is how much it's going to cost. This is how you can best prepare for it. And, you know, it's controversial, but it's like pick something where, you know, you know, at the end of the four years, you can get a good paying job where you're able to pay it back and you don't end up working at like a Starbucks or something like that. Nothing wrong with working at a Starbucks, but you have like thousands of dollars worth of loans. You want to make sure you have a good salary. Think about the career. Yeah. And I feel like that was something that was never really I don't know it was more just like please just go to university because you know me and my sisters were we were the first generation to go to

university and get degrees and so that was the goal is just to get any degree by any means but then you know then you finish school and you're like wait how do I get a job or I like really didn't think I mean I I was thinking about a career but I don't think I was actually thinking of some of the impacts of choosing like for, it was a career in the film industry. And then I finished school. I'm like, oh, I actually don't want a career in the film industry. Or I don't want to be a starving artist, you know, filmmaker, or I don't want to work on film sets. So shoot, I should have read out some of this.

I mean, it all worked out in the end, but it was, you know, took me a lot longer, I think, to hit my stride than some people who maybe were able to kind of make those decisions before or during university and yeah like you said there's nothing where you know it's it's it's it's awful just thinking that people are spending four or five years of their life in university and tens of thousands of dollars and graduating and then either wanting to totally switch careers right away or can't find a career because, you know, you can't get really a job in philosophy. Not a job. Exactly. And it's okay to switch careers. There's nothing wrong with that.

Like, you know, if you had an interest, you took an interest, you tried it out, that's fine, right? Like, of course, because you don't want to regret not doing it, right? But it's like factoring in being more financial conscious of, you know, the consequences of switching, of getting into it beforehand, and just knowing that, okay, when do I pull the plug if I'm not interested? What kind of jobs can I do in the, you know, afterwards, or even in the meantime, right? Like, of course, it's really common for kids to be working while they were in university. And I was really fortunate to be to be in a co-op program where I was attending school for four months, and then working full time for four months. And that really helped pay for a lot of my schooling. But nonetheless, I was poor with my money in university, I was really crappy. I accumulated debt, because again, I didn't have the tools.

And I just like I was with a partner who loved credit cards and it was OK. And, you know, that got me into a bit of trouble, even though I was making good money and I should have been able to pay for my tuition and everything. But I didn't. I just spent so much money and I was irresponsible. Oh, I think, too, because I hear usually like the, you know, people that have especially, you know, lingering credit card debt and they're much older, they're in their 30s and 40s, usually starts, yeah, at those younger ages, you know, college or, you know, in your early 20s.

And I think part of it is because, yeah, we never got those tools. So hopefully that does those that curriculum does enter schools a lot earlier. But I think part of it is this is the first time we've ever had money, whether it's even just credit. Yeah. We're like, this is the first time I've had it. And so if you get, yeah, it is kind of like, you know, tasting candy for the first time. You're going to get a little excited and go a little crazy. Unless you had something, you know, like for me, I didn't anything part of it was because I had to pay for school myself. And I did have some tools I got from my mom, I saw her budgeting it. So I learned frugal living. But there's a lot of things I didn't learn that I had to then make up for when I was in my 20s. So I always kind of think back to like, where does this all start? Because so many people, but like yourself,

you were able to kind of recognize that, learn what you didn't know. And now you are where you are today teaching others, but a lot of people may not have had, there's that thing that kind of clicked or that, you know, experience that kind of changed things. And, and that's, that's, that's the difficult thing is, you know, people like, oh, I wish, you know, things were different. And I learned this a lot sooner. But I guess, again, that's part of the reason why you have this book that I'm sure, you know, adults can read as well. It's not just for teens. But besides, you know, really thinking about the investment you're making in yourself going to post secondary, obviously, it depends on, you know, what country you're coming from, you know, those different regulations, you know, especially, you know, you know,

age of majority and things like that. But I think, like, what I've recognized is a lot of parents don't quite know, you know, what some of the things that they should be aware of, maybe they're getting asked by their children, like, hey, I want to start investing, because there's some guy on YouTube that's talking about it, how do I get started? Or I'm getting a lot, you know, during 2020 when everyone was, you know, asking everyone under the sun, hey, how do I, you know, triple X my money? Everyone was just like going a little bonkers. I was getting a lot of questions from young people asking how to get started. And I think, yeah, you know, kind of touched on this limited information and a lot of misinformation. Do you want to kind of speak to what are some key things parents and young adults, teens should know about starting their investing journey?

Absolutely. So in the rules, I know the book is written in the context of Americans and US accounts. But of course, today we'll speak from the point of view of Canadians and Canadian accounts. Oh, there's American listeners, so I'm sure people would be like, oh, what's that? Perfect. So yeah, so up here, it's a little bit trickier because you have to be age of majority to open up a TFSA. And then naturally naturally for parents that want to invest for their kids, you know, they turn to an RESP. So I would say that would be the first thing that, you know, parents should do is that because it's going to be their biggest expense, like growing, like as soon as they hit adult age, right? What is it? It's probably not buying a house,

but it's going to be their college university tuition. So I would say, you know, opening up an RESP, you're going to get a grant from the government as well. So there's some free money there. And it's a great way to, you know, start investing for your kids' future and helping them pay like a big expense when they hit, you know, 17, 18 years old, whenever they go off to university. And then, of course, there's, you know, what happens, and I get questions with, you know, what happens if I want to invest outside of an RESP, right? TFSA is just out of reach for them because they have to be, I believe it's 18, yeah, 18 years old. So then you get, so there's something called an informal trust that you can open for your child. A grandparent can open that type of account as well.

So there are like some tricky rules, but for the most part, it's still a good way for parents, grandparents to invest for their kids. And the best way to do it, I say, is get them involved, you know, let them help, you know, teach them how to invest by, you know, allowing them to make some decisions. And the first thing I would say is, you know, how do you, when people ask me, like, how do I teach my kid, my teen to invest? Like, well, invest in what you know. You know, the biggest, the greatest investors in the world, Warren Buffett, Peter Lynch, they say the same thing, invest in what you know. And same with for kids and teenagers.

Like, what do they know? Like a lot of the things that they buy that they're interested in, they're, for the most part, they are publicly traded companies and they can invest in them, right? So I think that's the easiest way to start off with teaching your kid or teen to invest. And that is asking them, what do you like, right? Oh, they're like McDonald's. Great. Invest in McDonald's stock, you know, buy a couple of shares of that. And it's like, what else do you like? Oh, you know, I like Google. Okay. Buy some alphabet shares, right? Or, you know, like it's all these things that um we are surrounded by we're familiar with and that's why these companies make so much money it's because we you know a lot we all spend money on

these companies right so now we say well we might as well get some of it back it's like getting a lifelong discount on everything we're spending money on and kids and like you know teens they go and spend money so why not teach them um you know, teens, they go and spend money. So why not teach them, you know, to get that lifelong discount and invest in these companies? No, absolutely. And yeah, like you said, there's no better gift, I think, not just like the investing side of things, but like, yeah, having them involved, because it's too often, like I hear from people, yeah, in their 20s, 30s, 40s, being like, well, I've never bought stocks or an ETF, or I've never opened up an account before. And, you know, the longer you wait to do it, the more the bigger it kind of seems that it seems a bit scary and daunting, because it seems so new. So if you can kind of integrate that or introduce

that concept, and this is how you open up a discount brokerage account and show them how to do it, it demystifies it, it makes it less scary, and then they'll feel more confident to continue their education and learning and making, you know, good scary. And then they'll feel more confident to continue their education and learning and making, you know, good decisions. But you mentioned that, you know, the book is very more focused on in the US and, you know, we do have some US listeners. So I'm curious, what are the big differences compared to like, if you're, you know, want to invest as a young adult or teen in the US? Are there more options? It always seems like there's more options. Yes, that's true. They do have some more options. So even for teens that are working, like say they're 14 years old, 15 years old, when they work, they can start contributing to So that's a huge benefit in terms of that. popular. Whereas in the US, it's like, oh, a kid can just open up a type of Roth IRA for them if

they start working and they can start contributing money and investing, right? In either case, whether you're in the US or Canada, you need adult supervision, right? So it's just a matter of what type of account you're going to be selecting. And the parent still has to be responsible for the child's account. You can't just hand it over, right? You hand it over when they reach the age of majority. So that's one account that's really beneficial for teens in the US.

Whereas like in Canada, it's like, well, RESPs or informal trust, right? And it has nothing to do with what kind of income you're earning and stuff like that. But the taxation rules are like, there are some taxation rules in terms of where like the source of money, right? Gifts versus, you know, child benefit money, right? Those things will be taxed a little bit differently. So it's just like a lot of rules that you have to read up on. And that's what you can just look up before you make a decision to open the type of account that's most suitable for your children.

And I assume, too, in the U.S., there's a type of account that's similar to the RESP, which is more focused on saving for college. So it's the 529 college savings. So there's a similar to the RESP. And again, lots of rules, states, like depending on the state you're living in, there could be grants and stuff like that, that kind of match what you're putting like your contributions. But yeah, so depending on the state you're in, it's, it's different, right? So obviously, it seems like it's a bit easier to actually start investing as a teen when you've got those limited options, because like you said, you need adult supervision. But once you hit the age of majority, then you can kind of do it on your own.

And that's great. You get that freedom. But I've definitely seen, especially over the years, as it's become so easy to open up an account, an app that will let you to trade for free. You know, a lot of young people are getting into it for the right reasons, maybe to, you know, build wealth over time, but aren't necessarily making the best choices or the information that they're getting are from, you know, questionable sources like Reddit or Instagram or TikTok. I'm curious, what are some like really important things that young people as they're starting their investing journey should keep in mind so they can avoid

those really expensive mistakes? So I think a lot of the mistakes are driven by just not being educated and not understanding what the risks and what the consequences are. And yeah, so for those that are like, you know, we teach them, look, if you invest in one individual stock, you put all your money in it, and you borrow money to invest in it, it could very well go to zero. Whereas if you're diversified, let's just say you invest in, you know, an ETF or a mutual fund, your money will likely not go to zero. So yes, there's a potential for that stock to go, you know, five, 10 times, but you can get wiped out so fast if it doesn't work out. And especially if you're buying into hype, if you're buying into people, you know, pumping

up a stock on Reddit, you know, that's manipulation, right? So just teaching them manipulation, the consequences of investing everything in one stock, investing in hype. And just like, if you can tune out the noise and stick with your strategy, and that's what this book teaches, right? It's like, this is your strategy, like slow and steady wins the race, you're going to invest consistently, you're going to be diversified, you don't listen to anything else out there and people listen to everything else out there is because they haven't learned the correct strategy they haven't educated themselves and they're just looking for they're like oh my gosh here's fast money who doesn't like fast money yeah everyone's looking for a shortcut you know exactly right naturally and fine like it's fair right but it's if you know that path is not the way to go, you're going to stick to your

strategy and all of this will not matter. And that's how you ultimately end up being a successful investor. I know. Whenever I have these conversations, it's like I feel like everyone is looking for that secret recipe or just like, what's the tip that will make me just surpass everybody? It's like, listen, investing actually isn't that complicated. It can be, it's actually pretty boring, but the hard part is actually following through with those boring guidelines. Most people can't stick to it, right? Because it's boring. It is. And I say, you know what? The only thing that should be boring is your portfolio. Don't make your life boring. Don't have a boring life. Have a boring portfolio.

Yeah, life is complicated enough. Why try to include that in your investment portfolio? Like life is stressful enough, believe you me. But, you know, sometimes I mean, what I found, and I'm sure any young person will like listen to this and they'll still, you know, they'll want to explore. They'll want to do some things i mean that's okay too but just know i mean my one thing that i tell everyone is like just don't invest if you're doing something some kind of speculation don't do it don't invest more than you're willing to lose because sometimes you will lose it and it'll be a very uh hard thing to swallow but then at least you're like well at least it's not actually going to affect me that much um that basically anyone who's invested in one of those crazy cryptos coins that don't exist anymore exactly you know

hopefully uh you didn't invest more than you could have lost and now it's a learning lesson that's right and hopefully it wasn't a lot hopefully it wasn't a lot exactly i'm curious did you have you gotten a lot of questions especially from young people about i mean i feel like everything's quite like it's not as loud as it used to be about NFTs and crypto. But have you gotten a lot of those questions from young people? They were really cool. Now no one's talking about them. Well, that's the thing.

Nothing's happening. Everything's like going down. And, you know, all I see in the headlines are, you know, like people getting arrested, like the cryptos are failing. And so I'm getting absolutely no questions around crypto and NFT. see in the headlines are, you know, like people getting arrested, like the cryptos are failing. And so I'm getting absolutely no questions around crypto and NFTs. At one point I was, that's when everything was, you know, going really well. People were making so much money and it was like all hype. Like on TikTok, all I saw were like NFT videos popping up on my feed. I'm like, oh, okay. And it's like, look how much I make $36,000 in four days, make $8,000 in two days. I'm like, this is so bad. Like, it's terrible. Like this

is like, this is driving people to be, you know, greedy. It's sucking them in. And then it's just so bad. And I hate that. Right. But there's nothing I can do about it. Like there's, that's just the way the world works. Right. And that's social media for you. That's the noise. And yeah, if you want to give it a try and put, you know, whatever, a couple hundred bucks, you can afford to lose, you want to test it out, go for it, right? But it's always, the questions come when everything is going so well, but you know that it's too late when everyone and their neighbors and their moms are already investing in it. It happened with crypto, happened with Bitcoin in 2016, 2017. It happened with all the meme stops.

Everyone was asking me about GameStop, AMC, Nokia, all these, you know, company questionable companies and their valuations. Yeah. So it's really it's during these times of quiet. Maybe that should be that's kind of the lesson, right? You're like, hmm, why is it so quiet? So, well, yeah, it's hard to, I think, focus on some of that like tried and true investment, you know, advice and those strategies when there is so much noise. So it's, you know, part of the thing I think is really understanding when it gets too noisy, how to mute it, because lots of it's just trash. Lots of it's just trash. Absolutely. And when this gets when everything in the media is talking about it, you know,

it's time to stay away. Or if you already own it, it's time to sell. And that's it. Because eventually it all comes crashing down, especially if it went up really, really quickly. What goes up fast will come crashing down just as fast. One last question. I'm just kind of curious because you worked in the industry

and now you are running your own business. Has your kind of outlook or investment strategy changed at all? Or is what you kind of did back then, you're still kind of doing it? Yeah, it's the same strategy because I guess the stock markets are just really, they're just driven by human behavior. And we haven't changed all that much um over like like centuries right so so naturally it's you know we're seeing this you know we're approaching maybe you know like a recession whatever we had like a huge bubble um because of all the money

that was printed out from um from covid and now there's like they're easing like there's quantitative easing it's the same cyclical economic cycles the same cyclical behavior human behaviors and you know at the end of the day um you know slow and steady wins the race don't buy into overvalued stocks for example everyone was so into like tesla and everything and look at it it is down so hard and just when you and sometimes i do like of course i question myself like oh my gosh is this not going to keep going up forever i know no and you're like wait a minute what did i just say exactly it hasn't changed if something's like absolutely inflated everything will eventually correct itself there's no such thing as something being so incredibly unicorn valued

and just excellent and it's going to produce superior returns forever. That's just not the case, right? So that's why the principles of if you're buying individual stocks, make sure the valuation is good. If you're not buying into stocks and you're just investing for, you know, the long term, you should be investing for the long term. Just continue, like, you know, investing on a consistent basis, averaging down the dollar cost averaging. That will work. That is ultimately the best investment strategy. It's proven to be the best. There's no other strategy that beats that strategy. I love that. So yeah, just keep it simple and be patient. That's, you know, the best advice, I think. But again, easy to say, hard to follow through. So really just, I mean,

you've mentioned behavior, you know, a couple of times and I'm like, yeah, that is, I think, the missing piece. So if you feel like you've listened to everything that, you know, and heard all the investment advice, I'd say, and you still feel like there's some kind of missing piece, start learning more about behavioral economics and just the psychology of things. Because that is the thing that makes us to do stupid things. Yeah, you are your own worst enemy when it comes to investing. It's not the stock markets. It's not individual companies. It's not blogs out there. It's you. Because you because you control ultimately when to hit that sell button and that's when people fail and lose money it's like they can't control themselves so it's like at the end

of the day just like you know what you need to check yourself yeah just check yourself especially if you know this and you feel you feel crappy you feel like oh my gosh am i gonna be losing money just check yourself right it happens like we all have to do it because we see stuff. It's like, oh my gosh, it's something's crashing and, you know, we're invested, but we just check ourselves, right? We know what to do, but we feel something different. It's just, we just have to control our actions. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So before I let you go, where can people follow you, grab copies of your two books, or seek your services? For sure. So I am on Instagram, so at the sassy investor. You can find me there and on TikTok at the sassy investor. Both of my books are on Amazon,

so you can do a search for that on Amazon. And if you want to book a call with me, work one-on-one, my website is www.thesassyinvestor.ca. Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Michelle, for coming on the show and sharing all your wisdom. I think this is really important information and just a reminder for, yeah, as we enter 2023 and who knows what's going to happen this year but i feel like we all need a good yeah we need to check ourselves this year exactly we don't know how scary this year will be it's been a it's been a roller coaster a couple years so let's just check ourselves sounds good thank you so much jessica thanks for having me here you're welcome

and that was episode 357 of the more Money Podcast with Michelle Hung. Make sure to check her out at thesassyinvestor.ca is her website, but you can also find her on Twitter at sassy underscore investor and on Instagram at thesassyinvestor. She's also called the Sassy Investor on YouTube and TikTok. So make sure to check her out and also check out her two books, The Sassy Investor and Investing for Teens, How to Save, Invest, and Grow Money. I am going to be giving away a copy of her latest book, Investing for Teens. So make sure to go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest and you can enter to win her book and also a few other books as well from some previous authors that have been on this season of the show. And is there any other things that I missed? Oh, yeah, just to reiterate, she does have a

free masterclass how to build your first 100k investment portfolio. You can check that out at the sassy investor.ca slash investing dash masterclass. And I will link to everything that I just mentioned in the podcast show notes, Jessica Morehouse.com slash 357. And again, if you want to check out the show notes for any episode you've ever listened to, a few different things you can do, you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast. You can go to jessicamorehouse.com slash the number of the episode, whatever you prefer. That's what you got. Now I've got a few things I want to share with you. So do not go away. But here's just a few words I want to share about this podcast episode sponsor. This episode of the more money Podcast is supported by The Globe and Mail. Want to better

understand economic trends and policy decisions and how they impact everything from housing markets to employment? Or maybe you want to take control of your finances by learning strategies for reducing debt, managing expenses, saving for a home, and identifying investment opportunities in this unpredictable marketplace. From explainers covering basics like how to invest with limited cash or how to pick a robo-advisor, to newsletters, tools like Watchlist, and Stock Screener, The Globe has everything you need to invest in yourself and your financial future. And for a limited time, The Globe is offering unrestricted access to globeandmail.com for just $75 a year plus tax for your first year. For full details,

visit globeandmail.com slash podcast. Once again, visit globeandmail.com slash podcast to start investing in yourself today. Okay, first things first. So really exciting. Tomorrow, I've got a bonus episode for you. That's right. A really important episode, quite honestly, because it is all about, especially during tax season, which we are in now, it is full swing tax time. Y'all, are you doing your taxes? We'll talk about that in a future episode, I'm sure. So I have a guest on, Lee Tynan, who I actually did a YouTube video with about a year ago, and it was all about cybersecurity and, you know, just how to protect yourself from getting scammed.

So make sure to listen to tomorrow's episode, a special bonus episode. But besides that, other things that I want to let you know about. So of course, I reminded you that there's a book giveaway going on. But also since, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, managing your money and investing in this episode, in case you don't know, I have an investing course. It's called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. And it's been around for over two years now. And it's been amazing to see the students enter the course, especially during, you know, such an interesting time the past couple of years, quite honestly. And really, honestly, most people enter the course because they either haven't started investing, have no idea where to start, and so they want a specific guide to guide them step

by step on what to do. Or they have been working with an advisor at a bank for a long time, and they are unhappy with the returns and just realized how much they're paying in fees, and they don't feel like they're getting any value. Believe me, I've literally talked to, at this point, probably hundreds if not thousands of people about this who've had the same experience and they are tired of it and they want to learn how they can do it on their own and also how they can better understand what they're currently investing in and if they can kind of call BS on their advisor because I feel like we have all been there. So if you want to learn more about the course I've built, it is, of course, a course. It is, of course, a course. Oh my gosh, Jessica. It is, of course, a course about passive investing, my kind of preferred strategy for investing, all about

those index funds, baby. You can find more information at jessicamorehouse.com slash course. And in case you also don't know, and you are looking for a way to improve your finances, the best way to get started and get organized with your money is crazy. I know, having a budget and I've got a bunch of budget spreadsheets on my website for pretty much every scenario you can think of, whether you're self-employed, whether you're a couple and one of you has a side hustle, literally anything you can think of, I probably have a budget spreadsheet specifically for you. It'll help you create that budget, track your spending, track your net worth, give you a bunch

of reports to see how you're doing in your progress. You can find all that at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. So I feel like that's probably enough. Again, I'm going to see you back here tomorrow with that bonus episode. So thanks for listening. Shout out to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout, as always, and I will see you back here tomorrow. So have a good evening and see you bright and early tomorrow. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.